• Not really. Gay marriage is not a civil rights issue. Instead, its a DEAD issue.

    In fact, the thing is more than a little bit funny. Matt is usually skewed into believing whatever hollywood does is part of the culture.

    In fact, this thing Dean did will be forgotten in less than a few days. Glad he's out there. Wish he'd get on teh Lehrer Report where he belongs.

  • I agree. The way to start a dialogue, is to talk to them. So many people here that are two fries short -of-a happy meal in their lunchbox - are all into labelling and all that stuff.

    The real thing thats going on , is here's a show that was calling for all these outrageous maneuevers against people -

    Is now asking a man who fought for truth to speak on their show.

    That is insanely great in my view. Still, I don't miss cable in this instance. Dean's appearance on Chris MAthew's "HArdBall" was the one I actually went over to a friends house to see.

    I'm not really into this dialogue anymore, its kind of shallow. The people who really dig the 700  club are probably the ones who will talk more about this than I will.

    I think you have the best position here in the thread. Mazeltov.

  • The 700 club is attracting big time interest here because Dean is here... people tune into these dippy shows just because guys like Uncle Howard are showing up.

    This is the same show that announced America should kill some guy in South America, isn't that right?

    So when do we grow up? The people here are a wide swatch  of America - anyone who has a remote control. Anyone who appreciates the irony - who would get a thrill in seeing Dean out there battling for a party reborn, a chance for America to unify.

    You guys are talking about it as if you have cable. Wait a minute... you DO have cable.

    So they're talking about YOU.


  • I agree that people like Bill Clinton (who is a christian), the Dalai Lama (who fights against a communist tyranny), Manmohan Singh (the first non-corrupt PM of India in nearly 20 years, and a sikh towelhead) are people that might have ideas that bring to bear on unity and strength.

    Buddhism is part of a world view, a way of seeing and understanding and being.  It is embraced by billions of people in the world.

    Confucius say:

    "Better not have forks and knives at the table, lets use chopsticks instead."

    Think about that.

  • I have had some experience with these arguments, and your defense here is astonishingly weak and ill conceived.

    Lets be clear: first, you have to establish what you stand for.

    My position is gay marriage is not a right, nor was it anything other than an ill conceived political gimmick. Constitutional Amendments against gay marriage serve no real purpose other than preventing  frivolous litigation. Gays who seek to solemnize their union can do so with contract law, and in the light of several churches who recognize them. I think the Unitarians, for example, see it. Society should not be coerced by politics, whether by Karl Rove and his attempt to mobilize homophobic america, or the GLBT , who is still caught up in a very expensive push to legitimize their lifestyle despite a consistent non-acceptance of it, using politics to change the status quo. In essence, I am consistent. I don't get upset. I just power on through this thing. Its something of a waste of time, in short.

    Now, that said. Lets look at your position. You're non spiritual. You believe that the great Howard Dean is a demagogue, and that he has such low standards that he is pandering. And you are so sophisticated that you've somehow translated the continual and persistent majority of America voters who oppose gay marriage, plus the nearly 70% - please reflect upon that figure - that voted  FOR amendments banning gay marriage in more than a dozen states in the union -

    Let me again repeat: your sophisticated statistical interpretation of steady support for a law that is now constitutionally banned in scores of states in the union as a result of an overwhelming majority of Americans voting against it -  is in fact, a position that Americans are winning.

    So let me reiterate, and I apologize if we get into an intelligent conversation - if you're not ready for it.  Winning is winning. Losing is losing.

    But when you're spinning statistics like that, you're being anti-spiritual. Just turn on fox news if you don't believe me.

    Americans don't trade one idiot for another. Once things get broken badly enough, we always rally to fix it. Don't think that because you're non spiritual you're a target. In fact, spirituality is irrelevant. Dean is speaking to identity groups, not spiritual truths.

    Remember too, this is the guy who decided to let the legislature battle it out. Since you have now invented a new form of mathematics to justify your  position - why not instead call it spirituality. After all, if you put it to vote now, and America passed it. It would be a miracle. Wouldn't it.


  • Oh, I'm not referring to just the election of 2004. Thats small fish. The gays knew they were going to lose that thing to begin with.

    That was all Karl Rove, 2004. Had nothing to do with the war.

    The war we are referring to here is a mostly successful 10 year campaign to turn about the view of homosexuality in the court of public opinion. It started out in the sixties, but really accelerated in the 90's.  Homosexuals took beachhead, after beachhead. Eventually homosexuality was displayed on nearly every TV screen in the united states, in a positive light. Thats a far cry from being something that was the "love that dare not speak its name" and in whom Americans really didn't understand at all until Kinsey wrote about it.

    That said, to speak of gay marriage as a civil right is part of their 2004 product. Not their war.

    Just a battle that they got their ass firmly kicked. Nearly blown off the ballot in every state, including Oregon and San Francisco.

    Lets talk politics, Jambro. It was a stupid move then. Its a stupid move now. Thats why you're thinking about bitch slapping, and I'm thinking about the wonderful, calm voters that Dean was addressing. They're not voting for you.

    They're following DEAN. A voice against the war, a voice for America. And a voice that happens not to be in opposition to you. Again, look at his record: he said the best place to decide it is in the legislature, and I agree. But I'm not comfortable with it.

    Still to this day, Gay marriage is to me one of the worst conceived campaigns on behalf of either Karl Rove (who tried to use it to galvanise his base, and just ended up alienating millions of republicans and destroying his chances with the powerful republican independents - kao tao to the effing crazies NOT being his best idea either foreign policy or domestic - wise ) -  or the GLBT  who spend so much time these days trying to convince everyone how cool all of this is, that they are becoming shrill and pointless in their own right.

    Socrates said:

    "Courage is Intelligent Endurance".

    Think about that.
    Oh yeah. Think about this too. I'm an activist.
    And this is for you.


    There. now get up and get back to work. BEE YATCH

  • by the way, dean settled this issue out in the vermont legislature instead of the supreme court.

  • You are executing a loathsome display of sophistry in your argument.

    The vast majority of American voters, consistently agree and vote against homosexual union. They are in effect stating that gay marriage will have to evolve organically - that it cannot be forced upon us by lawsuit. This is any good voter should vote for constitutional amendments against gay marriage - gay activists were launching expensive, high profile lawsuits trying to game the system to bring it all into sharp view.

    Your values, as a voter, are not defined by a carefully organized lobby (such as the GLBT) that attempted to launch high profile lawsuits and bring to bear the legalization of gay marriage in their overt support for HOWARD DEAN and their continuing support for anything that pushes them into the media.

    Instead, if you are buddhist, you must feel compassion for all things.

    Do you only feel compassion for the worm, and not the bird? The mouse, and not the cat? Lord Buddha saw in all things the great mystery of life. His smile brings the radiance of pure consciousness to all things, he is the bodhi satva - the living embodiment of compassion. He simply loves all things.

    So, a pig, who is born naturally homosexual. Spends his sperm up the arse of another male pig, and dies removed from the chain of life. Did he escape the wheel. Does he deserve to show other pigs the right way to do everything. Should he get his own TV show. Does he have 15 minutes of fame.  Are all pigs therefore removed from the compassion of the buddha because they are pigs, in whom, homosexuality occurs naturally.

    No. They are just pigs. Like you.

    I am just a worm.

  • Dean is speaking from the heart. That's all thats going on.  I agree with Howard Dean, I like what he said -

    Separation of Church and State is a given. Now, here's the twist: what about that part of Government, which is also a part of Society - that becomes part of your own home or social existence.  That part of society that is now completely communal, in which ideas fly with more speed than the founding fathers ever though possible.

    So where do we separate, the need to identify with our social groups and friends - be they gay or straight - and the groups of people in whom policy, like the living law - is important and a day to day concern.

    Dean is looking out over a vast sea of culture and agreeing with those who would call themselves christian.

    Those who would disagree with that same group, those that say he's selling out -

    Are only upset because once again he is speaking truth to power. The gays waged a culture war, they attempted to use politics to create a mass acceptance of their sterile lifestyle.

    They lost.

    I do not debate that we should separate church and state, I only point out that here, it is irrelevant. Dean is not saying that prayer guides policy.

    He is only saying that we are all Americans. And I Agree with him wholeheartedly. But then, agreeing with Dean should be getting old to you by now, shouldn't it..

  • on a comment on No More Alternative Energy, Ok? over 8 years ago

    The correct phrase is COOL ENERGY.

    Because it's cool.

    you can use this phrase as much as you like,
    it will make republicans globally hot
    under the collar.  The GOP is comprised of
    a bunch of people who aren't cool.

    And if you need anything else thats cool,
    remember to come to TurnerBroadcasting..

  • on a comment on No More Alternative Energy, Ok? over 8 years ago

    And I swear to you I don't have a gun

  • comment on a post Bush's Job Approval In Historical Perspective over 8 years ago

    Then we can really start breathing easy. Lets be realistic: An approval of 31% shows that there is almost one in three Americans who believe Bush is a good president.

    that finding, is, in and of itself shocking. I am non partisan, and independent. Bush is undoubtedly the worst president ever - he is a liar, he is incompetent, he took us to war unjustly - he has spied on us, stolen from us, and is destroying our country.

    So when you meet one in three people who say he's ok - thats huge. Thats mammoth. We still have alot of work left to do. Raise the stakes.

  • Voting for Hayden is a vote for the invasion of citizen's rights. The CIA is a pre-eminent spy organization. Their status as such depends entirely upon execution of quality intel ops.

    For the life of me I have to admit he's better than Goss. Remember, Goss was appointed just as they were trying to swing Florida over. Imagine the effect on the campaign.

    Imagine Karl Roves effect on policy decisions.... Imagine what would happen if the CIA became relegated to the status of a political  peeping tom.

  • comment on a post Come to Yearly Kos over 8 years ago

    it cost me about 160.00 to learn. I want to go back, to visit my money and see how it is doing.

    I should also probably head over to those thai massage parlors and give the girls a hard time about their fees.. you know.. " yes, but what exactly IS a FULL BODY MASSAGE?" ..  the accent is great.

    Las Vegas can be alot of fun if you don't plan on going there with 3 thousand dollars to drop on a slot machine.

    I especially like running out there. The cool desert air. It cleans up at night. Getting polluted during the day. They have a ring around that city, if you get outside of it, its kind of nice.  Its only 3 miles to the airport. Run in the opposite direction and you're free of jet fumes.

    Kos Vegas. Bring it on.

  • on a comment on Come to Yearly Kos over 8 years ago

    whats really neat about this post is that the image is source hosted so you can change it whenever. I would just put a single image up, instead of a guy holding an image of a document standing next to images of signs..


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