I'm voting Obama, but McCain is better on issues

I regularly criticize Obama, yet state dialy that I'm voting for him, why?

1. Obama will appoint truly liberal judges who ultimately are good for America.  People who are open-minded and make an honest effort to do what's right.  People like Souter, Breyer,Ginsburg,Stevens, and O 'Connor.   I think McCain would be forced to move to right-wingers, though his instincts are similar to Obama's.  While I disagree with them on a few issues, they are generally correct and I certainly can't fault their approach.

2. Obama is pro-choice, and we need a pro-choice President in a time where the Supreme Court is aging, and technology is moving against the pro-choice movement.

3. Obama supports the general idea of affirmative action and recognizing it needs to change to make allowances for class and other factors.  Again, I think his general approach is correct.

4. I expect Obama's foreign policy to be  rather hawkish ultimately because of the advisors he chooses. By election day, Obama will be shown to be a mainstream Democrat on foreign policy.  If he listens to Joe Biden (which I think he must because Biden gives him credibility), then his approach will be pretty good. However, it will be more realistic and fact-based than McCain and certainly Bush.

5.  The Democratic Party has been one of the major reasons that African Americans have prospered in this country.  By choosing to associate with equality and prosperity for African Americans the party has risked obliteration but has now prospered.  Now to take the ultimate step in nominating Obama is gigantic.  There is no way, I wouldn't get onboard with Obama and the Democrats in this historic elections, notwithstanding the actual facts surrounding Obama.

6.  I'm a democrat. This is my team.  I believe in loyalty.
That said, look at everyday issues and McCain is often on the right side of the issues as far as me and normal Americans are concerned:

Take energy for example:

I support drilling everywhere it is possible within the U.S.  I believe in technology and the goodness of America to deal with any problems that might occur.

McCain is closer to that position than obama.

obama's leftwing base either wants:

higher gas prices to discourage oil use
alternative technologies that might help in the future.

yet, nothing that would signal to the markets today.

McCain's plan for gas tax holiday, and drilling in the U.S. would knock the price down immediately because of speculation.

The dirty secret is that many dems support high gas prices, because it lowers demand for energy.

Not this dem.

I support more supply, more conservation, and new technology.

Right now, the media is helping our side by not showing how ridiculous dems look opposing drilling in the U.S.

We should use all the available leases now (as Biden said on MTP) and expand them.

Possible obama plan:

we should be given tax credits or some large discount to buy more fuel efficient vehicles.  This would cost alot but connect it to the cost of fighting wars in the middle east to keep oil flowing, it's really cheap; esp. in lives lost.

If we immediately gave people 25 - 30 % discounts on electric, hybrids and other better performing cars, it would incentivise manufacturers to make more, and people to buy right now.

It would spur the economy, clean up the environment, and make sense.

it would balloon the deficit, but:

1. who cares, it's going to be big anyway
2. it will be for a good reason, investing in a clean earth

there are numerous other issues where dems are catering to a leftwing base and McCain sounds more mainstream like:

taxes:  Obama's plans are too compliticated and wrongheaded including raising the cap on fica taxes. If he offered soemthing like a tax cut to anyone under 100,000, and tax increases to anyone over 200,000, and everyone in between held steady, that would be good.

But as it is, the "don't give tax breaks to people who don't need them" doesn't sound American.  It never sells, nor should it.

Fica:  though he will ultimately cave (which is good), but arguing an esoteric point about immunity for telecom countries who can argue they were helping stop a terrorist threat is dumb policy and politics.  I don't think these companies were up to evil, so why punish them.  Perhaps it was wrong, well fix it in the future.  Sometimes flip flop is good.

Immigration:  giving illegals d.l.'s is bad policy and politics.  McCain has backed off of his plans and is talking much more enforcement now.  Last i heard, obama was still supporting them.

All in all, this is a fun election because the signs show a blowout.  Close polls in Georgia, Virginia, and other red states, with Obama pulling ahead in the blue.

Please take the time to actually make this election matter by fighting for issues rather than empty slogans.  If not, we'll win without a clear direction, mess it up like after 1992 and be back in the wilderness really soon.

Remember Republicans really thought after 2002 that they were a permanent majority.
So did many dems.

Tags: 2008 election, craig farmer, Democrats, newliberals (all tags)



The Universal Troll Diary.

Trollish at Red State, trollish at Democratic blogs.

It's like a Troll Alchemist's dream.

by Geekesque 2008-06-24 08:50AM | 0 recs
this isn't trollish

it's ok to disagree with Obama on some issues.  I don't think the diarist makes a very good case on those issues, but this isn't trollery.

by JJE 2008-06-24 08:53AM | 0 recs
"McCain is better on the issues."

What part of that isn't trollish at a liberal Democratic website?

by Geekesque 2008-06-24 08:58AM | 0 recs
the title needs rewrite

maybe "some" issues would work better.  But the substance of the diary isn't bad.

by JJE 2008-06-24 09:10AM | 0 recs
The diarist makes no arguments whatsoever.

The diarist makes unsupported assertions that are exactly contrary to the facts.

For example:

Gas tax holiday

drill here, drill now to lower gas prices

I don't know what Obama's immigration policies are, but McCain's must be better.

The diarist smells of McCain troll.

by tbetz 2008-06-24 09:18AM | 0 recs
The diarist was with Clinton since last year

Unless Rupert Murdoch or John McCain have enough foresight to support the "inevitable" Democratic nominee in early January, yellowdem here is simply either a normal, all-purpose troll or just generally supports disasterous policies.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-24 09:29AM | 0 recs
I know

I'm not saying this is a good diary, just that it's not really a troll diary.  A troll diary, in my view, is one that just calls Obama names or accuses him of flip-flopping or whatever.  This one at least discusses the issues, albeit superficially.

by JJE 2008-06-24 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The Universal Troll Diary.

One thing I absolutely hate, is when people do not respect other people's opinions. Your comment was trollish, not the diarist's post.

by RJEvans 2008-06-24 10:38AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain is

"McCain's plan for gas tax holiday, and drilling in the U.S. would knock the price down immediately because of speculation"

No, it would not.  Please understand that NO ECONOMIST actually thinks that a gas tax holiday would work at all.  This is the worst sort of base error to make, failing to do research on an easy issue like this.

by Lawyerish 2008-06-24 08:53AM | 0 recs
Right on the holiday, plus...

You also missed the part where drilling would take 10 years to knock the price of oil down 75 cents per barrel (3 cents per gallon of gas).

Oh, and if you want to knock the price down immediately, end speculation and deal with the Enron loophole, which Obama supports closing.

by TCQuad 2008-06-24 09:50AM | 0 recs
Unusual perspective, but interesting


by Neef 2008-06-24 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Unusual perspective, but interesting

Actually most Democrats agree on the whole drilling in the U.S. is concerned, as evidenced by the acres of unexplored leases that have been granted and unused. The ANWR and Oceanic explorations don't pass the smell test in a lot of ways though, not the least of which is that there are not enough ships to do the exploration, The delicate nature of our ecosystem must eventually be taken into account (even if we might not be around when we reep what we've sewn), and for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, more production by us leads to more global supply leads to mor usage leads to the same problem in the future. Don't give tax breaks to people who don't need them, are you quoting a Rush'd version of Dem tax plans, currently if you made all your money and are loaded, you can live off the earning being taxed at 15% while the working single mother gets taxed 20-30%, yeah, that's equitable.

by Dog Chains 2008-06-24 09:04AM | 0 recs
Other greatest hits from this diarist:

"My Last Post"

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/2/20165 1/9568

"despite media spin; why delegates won't matter:Hillary wins!"

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/20/2044 31/818

"I voted today (low turnout): look for Hillary upset victories" (in Virginia, DC, and Maryland)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/12/1141 38/204

by Geekesque 2008-06-24 08:58AM | 0 recs
Better yet...

from his diary yesterday:

However, what has happened is that the opponents of the Republicans have come to dominate the Dem Party.

They aren't Liberals but left-wing Conservatives.  Meaning they have an equally fixed world-view but from the Left.

They likewise refuse to use facts and logic, but start out with a conclusion and then go about confirming it.

These include:

the global warming enthusiasts
the glbt crowd
the civil rights groups
the economic socialists types
the pacifists

What I'm arguing for is for people to honestly use their God given talent to study, and achieve a policy position.

...given that he's generally smeared most types of Dems (both economic and social liberals, in fact)... it's certainly not clear what "yellowdem" supports that makes him a democrat at all. It would certainly help if he did not repeat rightwing memes against liberal ideology.

by Casuist 2008-06-24 09:02AM | 0 recs
"the glbt crowd"


by Geekesque 2008-06-24 09:10AM | 0 recs
the diarist is amply on record as

opposing equal rights for "the glbt crowd", so the dismissive phrase doesn't surprise me.

by aggieric 2008-06-24 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Better yet...

the global warming enthusiasts
the glbt crowd
the civil rights groups
the economic socialists types
the pacifists

Sounds like my kind of people.

Versus Republicans:

the torture enthusiasists
the violation of the Constitution supporters
the racists
the war enthusiasts
the "have and the have mores"

Nah. I like my crowd much better.

by skohayes 2008-06-24 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama...


I won't even comment on the sucker's game of a "gas tax holiday" or more drilling. Patently stupid concepts.

But there already have been tax credits for hybrids. They don't offset the price premium of the vehicles, and they do nothing for the limited availability either.

by Reeves 2008-06-24 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama

But as it is, the "don't give tax breaks to people who don't need them" doesn't sound American.

Is that the best reason to oppose Obama's plan?  Because of how it sounds/sells?  What do you have to say of the merits of the plan?

Also, I appreciate those who will vote for Obama critiquing his platform.  But my question is, to what end?  How do you propose to get Obama to change his platform to fit your views but still have him elected in November?

You write,

Please take the time to actually make this election matter by fighting for issues rather than empty slogans.  If not, we'll win without a clear direction, mess it up like after 1992 and be back in the wilderness really soon.

Saying you believe in the "goodness of America" to help the gas crisis and arguing that his tax plan "doesn't sound American" isn't exactly the kind of slogan-free discourse you seem to be calling for.

by Koan 2008-06-24 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama

The diarist is not critiquing Obama's platform, he's critiquing his rhetoric.  Nowhere does he actually point us to Obama's platform, but instead on rhetoric from a biased, wrong point of view.

At least in my opinion.

by fbihop 2008-06-24 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama

Then why make the title about the issues?  Disingenuous on the diarist's part, to say the least.

by Koan 2008-06-24 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain is better on issu

1. The time range for finding, constructing and drilling for new oil pushes any new online oil source out to between 8 - 14 years

  1. Such a time frame invalidates any hope of oil speculation pushing the oil prices down, as oil speculators work in predominately 6 month increments, not 10 year increments.
  2. Even taking the Bush White House estimates of offshore reserves (which are a bit more rosy than likely actual reserves), this is less than 1% of global resources.
  3. Oil exploitation does not go directly to the US, it goes into the global whole.
  4. Therefore, the absolute best we can hope for is a 1% reduction in price 10 years from now.


(the only Americans this will actually benefit to any amount are oil company employees)

(and the tax holiday is just patently absurd)

by notedgeways 2008-06-24 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain...

McCain's plan for gas tax holiday, and drilling in the U.S. would knock the price down immediately because of speculation.

Not so. Drilling will not lower gas prices immediately since it takes at least 5  years to bring a well on line.

Drilling off the coast of California, Florida and elsewhere would increase domestic oil production by 7 percent by 2030, according to the Energy Information Administration. But "because oil prices are determined on the international market...any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant." There is no short-term benefit to drilling, says the EIA, because it would take at least five years for oil production to begin. (Source: Center for American Progress.)

Gas tax holiday may or may not work depends on if oil companies pass on the savings. The when it ends up go the price by 20 cents in one day.

The fastest fix to high prices albeit temporarily since demand will increase. Would be to close the Enron loop-hole on speculation. By some estimates this would have an immediate effect of lowering price 30-50%.

"The proper range of crude oil is somewhere between $35 and $65 a barrel." J. Stephen Simon, Exxon-Mobil executive vice president, said in testimony to the House of Representatives, "The price of oil should be $50 to $55 per barrel based on supply and demand fundamentals." Gerry Ramm, an Inland Oil Company senior executive, said during Senate testimony, "Excessive speculation on energy trading facilities is the fuel that is driving this runaway train in crude oil prices."

by jsfox 2008-06-24 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain...

But whose brainchild is the Enron loophole you might ask?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/22/news/eco nomy/Obama_Oil.ap/index.htm?section=mone y_latest

by Dog Chains 2008-06-24 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain...

Funny how that works.

by jsfox 2008-06-24 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain is better on issu

McCain is certainly not better than Obama on the issues.

Taxes: McCain wants to extend the Bush tax breaks. The same tax breaks he once said went inordinately to the wealthy and would balloon the debt. What happened to the Straight Talker?

Energy: Obama - sensible proposals to move us towards a clean future and energy independence. McCain - pander, pander, pander.

FISA (fica? (sic)): We need to see how this plays out. For all the hype on this issue, Obama has not changed his stance. He's still against telco immunity. He should be, since encouraging breaking the law is not a good stance to take. What happened to the Law and Order party? They sure have changed their tune since Bush got in office. Think Libby.

Immigration: McCain and Obama are probably closer on this issue than any other, although McCain is running hard to the right in order to pander to his base.

Judicial appointments: McCain wants more justices like Roberts and Alito. He has stated this repeatedly. That's enough reason to vote against him right there.

Use of force: McCain is more hawkish than Bush and favors a more confrontational stance with Iran, Russia, and China. His actions would probably lead to a need for a reinstatement of the draft.

Foreign policy: Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran

Torture: McCain: It's ok as long as it's the CIA doing it. Obama: Torture is immoral.

Habeas Corpus: McCain: Worst decision ever. Obama: Right decision.

Roe v Wade: McCain wants to see it overturned. Obama: Full backing by Planned Parenthood and NARAL.

Do I really need to go on?

Now to see which trolls come out from under their bridges to defend McCain.

by MS01 Indie 2008-06-24 09:12AM | 0 recs
I emerge from under the bridge to say...

Your comment is completely inaccurate!

It's actually "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran", not "Bomb bomb bomb Iran".

Here, I can prove it (song is from 1980 from a group called Vince Vance & the Valiants, obviously YouTubeified with various recent images):

by TCQuad 2008-06-24 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but

I appreciate honest thoughts and analysis.  I'm not in a position to delve too deeply right now, but I hope to return to this later.

To those who dog the diarist for this one, I would ask that you stop.  Substantive policy discussion is healthy.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-24 09:28AM | 0 recs
You don't understand the commodities market.

"McCain's plan for gas tax holiday, and drilling in the U.S. would knock the price down immediately because of speculation."

That's not how it works, sorry.

1) Speculation is all short term. Until those new operations (drilling in ANWR, which McCain still opposes or offshore drilling) actually start placing new supply in the market they will not impact pricing.

2) It ignores bottlenecks: Offshore drilling as it currently stands is only operating at about 70%.  The bottleneck is tankers. After that, the next step, the refineries, are currently running beyond their capacity.  Obama is committed to building more of these.

3) The gas tax holiday has some nasty side effects that do more damage than help.  First, you have to hedge your bets on those 18.4 cents actually being realized by the consumer and not padding anyone's profit margin (If you think this will happen I have a subprime mortgage to sell you..).  Then you have to assume demand won't increase as a result swallowing up most of that discount.  Finally you have to deal with the gigantic hole you have in the infrastructure budget and the number of jobs its going to cost the country.  What's the impact of 300,000 jobs all at once?  Pretty devastating.

I can see why you think McCain is right on this issue.  The only thing this proves is the fact that John McCain does not understand the economy and is unfit to lead this nation.

by Homebrewer 2008-06-24 10:01AM | 0 recs
I'm voting Obama, but McCain is better on issues

You should vote for McCain since you believe he's better on the issues.

by venavena 2008-06-24 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm voting Obama, but McCain is better on issu

To the person who accused yellowdem of being a troll, you are wrong. He has been here for a while.

Having said that, this diary makes little sense. You said you agree with McCain on the issues, yet your item by item list pretty much has all the important issues weighted in favor of Obama(judges, national security solutions, AA) while a few couple of trivial things in favor of McCain(even if you support drilling, there is no new oil coming soon from those sources and your gas tax suggestion is too speculative to be serious about).

And the drivers license thing? What is wrong? For the record, I am actually one of the tougher MYDDers in the Lou Dobbs mode when it comes to tackling illegal immigration(had a diary about it in the past). Yet, I support Drivers licenses for them because it helps track people when it comes to accidents and forces them to get insurance. Drivers licenses for illegals is helpful for us more than it is for them.

by Pravin 2008-06-24 10:12AM | 0 recs
Energy policy

A lot of your criticisms of Obama have to do with energy policy, so I'll challenge you to take a fresh look at whether McCain really has better ideas here.  In order:

1) maximizing oil production within  the US will have very little impact on the world price for oil.  Energy is a global market, prices are rising because global production is flat while global demand is increasing, and nothing which happens in the US on the production side can affect that, because the volume of any potential increase in domestic production is the proverbial drop the bucket.  ANWAR is not the next Saudi Arabia--not even close.  What the GOP is trying to do is exploit anxiety over high gas prices to help domestic producers pull off what they've been trying for years.  If you support these efforts, fine.  But don't do this because you think this would make any difference at the pump--it won't.

2) Obama isn't in favor of high gas prices.  He accepts that these high prices are market-driven--which is a totally different statement--and believes American consumers would have been better off if this increase had occurred more slowly than was the case--which is hard to contest, because people would have had more time to adjust.  While there are some Democrats who believe that high gas prices (eg. through taxation) would have some public benefits (eg. reduced consumption would equal a reduction in greenhouse gases), Obama, to the best of my knowledge, has never supported this position.  We're in a new world, once again, because global demand is increasing while global production is (and will probably stay) flat.  The old debate is moot.  No serious person expects the price of oil to go back to $35 a barrel or anything like this.

3) The gas tax holiday is just another drop-in-the-bucket solution (federal taxes just don't add much to the price at the pump, they do nothing to affect the world price of oil, this money would have to be recouped somewhere else, and there's no reason why oil companies would necessarily pass along the savings from a short-term holiday to the consumer, six months is not enough time for competitive pressures to do their work).

4) Government efforts to encourage more efficient consumption, however, can have a positive benefit if used intelligently.  I'm a big skeptic when it comes to government regulation of any kind, but it has its place and this is an area where it could work.  Simple story, what the government should be trying to do is give energy consumers and the companies which design products which use energy (eg. cars) incentives so that they'll pay the cost of maximizing efficiency now (eg. increase mpg standards, design better hybrids, electric cars, etc.), rather than wait and respond slowly to market signals.  This sort of effort would pay off (ie. save everyone money, both individually and collectively) IF it's true that the price of energy is not going down (with every conversion like this there are startup costs, costs for R&D, and economies of scale, but over the long-term the sooner one starts the better).

Upshot.  Does McCain really have a better energy policy?  Or is his whole approach to this issue based upon an assumption that we're not in a new world with respect to energy, the old rules still apply, and right now what the US has to do is ride out a bad storm?  Because if that's his approach, but the market has fundamentally shifted, we're going to have the same problems in the future.

Obama recognizes that we are in this new world, and not because of anything which is happening in the United States, or Iraq, etc.  The price of energy is increasing because of events in places like China (which, btw, aren't entirely bad, the US benefits a lot when the world becomes more prosperous, this is just one downside).

So ultimately, here's the choice: would you rather drive the same car you do now and pay $5 a gallon, with none of this going to the federal government, and where this revenue comes from other sources?  Or would you prefer driving a car which is very similar to the one you're driving now but which gets 60 mpg (and so you're basically paying the same total price for gas as you were five years ago).

To me this is a no brainer: give me the better car.  Obama understands this.  McCain, it seems, doesn't.  And yes, there are other benefits from this sort of energy efficiency--that just makes the argument more difficult to resist (but government can make this transition easier).


by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-06-24 10:18AM | 0 recs
Drilling in the ANWR

for example would not be availible for at least 10 years. So how that is a better policy to help at the pump is beyond me. The estimates of the price going down from speculation is rosy at best. I was going to address this in more detail but others have beat me to it. I just don't buy the drilling argument. What we should be doing is focusing on at first fuel efficiency, then after 5 years, maybe even up to 10, while encouraging new tech, we should have a viable alternate to oil based cars altogether. Why should waste time and more tax payer money subsidizing for more oil drilling when the technology is becoming obsolete does not make sense to me. The truth is we can not sustain the current energy system and we need something that will tranisition us off of it and not delay us with red herring of more drilling.

by SocialDem 2008-06-24 11:22AM | 0 recs
Go Suck on McCain somehwere else

because the real meaning behind your post is clear....and wipe your chin off your going to embarress your family.

by Grissom1001 2008-06-24 11:35AM | 0 recs


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