Conrad and Baucus kiss Joe Wilson's Butt!

It's hard to imagine these guys could do anything more to sabotage the Democratic party, but this morning these two idiots capitulated to Joe Wilson, rather then back up their own Democratic President. Basically, they said, Wilson's concerns are right, and Obama WAS a liar. e/0,8599,1921713,00.html?xid=rss-topstor ies

The controversy over Republican Rep. Joe Wilson's shouting out "You Lie!" at the President over his claim that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from health-care reform apparently sparked some reconsideration of the relevant language. "We really thought we'd resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President's speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again," said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange -- a move likely to inflame the left.

Jesus Christ, those two JUST ADMITTED this was some nefarious plot to sneak in illegal immigrants into the exchange.

They just made Mr Son of the Confederacies outburst legit!

What's next?  Baucus adds a new amendment to his bill stating "Absolutely NO Death Panels to Kill Granny!"

Are these guys being paid to help Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh come up with material?  

Because they are sure are not working for the Democratic Party.

Tags: Reagan Dems sign on to help Wingers! (all tags)



Devil's advocate

Well, if we weren't planning on covering illegals, then what's the harm in having this be part of the bill?  I get the optics of Joe Wilson and the general Republican descent into the crazy abyss, but we can't be stubborn and proud and just not do something because the person who suggested it is a lunatic.  If this will calm some people's fears, then why not?

by the mollusk 2009-09-11 10:32AM | 0 recs
Because it's ALREADY IN THERE 0773.pdf

This will NOT calm the lunatics, NOTHING can calm the lunatics.

This will be said to them to be PROOF, or else WHY did Baucus have to add that to the bill?

And, again, these people DON'T STOP!

I was not serious, but he next thing they will demand is more specific language about abortion (already in there) and death panels, etc..etc...

This is like agreeing, OK, some have concerns that Obama is a Kenyan...

So what?  He's not, they are loons!

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-11 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Because it's ALREADY IN THERE

This text from HR 3200 seems to say that some non-citizens would be required to get insurance, while others would not(although I didn't see anything that would stop them from getting it.)

Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens
who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health
insurance. Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors,
temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required
to obtain health insurance.

This seems to contradict this from Baucus.

Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange.

If I read this correctly, all non-citizens would be banned from participating. Quite a dramatic change or am I missing something?  

by tpeichel 2009-09-11 11:39AM | 0 recs
Baucus can't ban non citizens from BUYING

insurance, or green card workers like a number at my company from being covered by the company.

Again, this dupe is trying to kill a bug that does not exist!

The scuffle is this: n_go_co/us_illegal_immigrants_fact_check

THE FACTS: The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, and they could also buy into a new government-run insurance plan if Congress creates one. But unlike legal residents, they wouldn't get federal subsidies to help them. The bill's exact language: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully in the United States." Health care legislation in the Senate is also being crafted to exclude illegal immigrants from coverage.

Who cares if non-citizens PAY for their own insurance?

The Pyschopaths are saying "Illegal Immigrants will get FREE Health care paid for by the Tax payers"...

There was NEVER a need to justify that insanity, because the bill explicitly prohibits any gov credits for non-US Citizens.

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-11 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Baucus can't ban non citizens from BUYING

So it sounds like with the Baucus amendment, only citizens would have access to the new exchange (public and private options offered by the government), while non-citizens would only be elgible for private insurance offered outside the exchange.

You think they would have gotten this all straightened out BEFORE the huge healthcare speech. No wonder the people are confused when the politicians are bumbling fools.

by tpeichel 2009-09-11 12:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Baucus can't ban non citizens from BUYING

One has to spell out what they mean by non-citizens. There are thousands of legal permanent residents in this country who pay federal, state income taxes, including social security, medicaid and medicare. To tell them "hey we like your money but take a hike" is wrong and frankly xenophobic.

by tarheel74 2009-09-11 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Baucus can't ban non citizens

and there are citizens born here who would have a great problem 'proving' citizenship, when they were born at home. That would mainly affect the over 70 group.  what fun to get them off medicare?  

by anna shane 2009-09-13 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Conrad and Baucus kiss Joe Wilson's Butt!
I'm with you on the whole, "It's about time for the Dems to man up," bit.  It frustrates me to no end that because we are the party of discussion and clear thinking, that we appear to be weak.  However, I don't care what language we need to put in the bill that will clarify any confusion (lies) and coddle the GOP as long as it does not change the bill.  The issue is that the bill will pass.  So lets throw in the phrase about not allowing grandma to be killed by mean ol' democrats.  Who cares?  As long as the bill is passed, and the "new GOP friendly" language does not change it, we will get what we want and the GOP will be left holding a bag of nothingness.
Remember, Obama is playing chess, these guys are playing checkers (and that's being generous to the GOP).
by lqbruin 2009-09-11 10:56AM | 0 recs

That's why!  They want to spread misinformation and confusion to make health care reform Obama's Waterloo.  If a heckler gets a positive response in order to clarift, then it communicates that:

1. critics are right--the bill isn't ready and the Dems have rushed things.

2. There is a problem regardng illegls and health coverage--we'd be better off doing nothing.

3. illegals are a huge problem and only Joe Wilson and the GOP have the foresight and balls to be on guard against the giveaways to these bastards.

4. Obama WAS lying.


by Thaddeus 2009-09-11 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Because the GOP isn't LOOKING FOR CLARITY

Again, we should change the wording to be whatever they want it to say AS LONG AS NOTHING CHANGES in the bill.  We were never going to kill grandma, so inserting the words that we won't kill grandma does nothing to upset the applecart, and shows that were are the party of level-headedness to the independence.  We were never going to cover undocumented workers for free, so writing that at a third-grade reading level so the GOP can understand it won't change anything.  As long as the bill gets passed as it currently is, I don't care if they call it the Nixon-Reagan-Hoover Memorial Bill for Health Care.  It needs to get passed.

by lqbruin 2009-09-11 04:13PM | 0 recs

Many people called Obama's speech a game-changer. While it was not quite that, it was definitely a momentum changer. Unfortunately it took slightly more than 24 hours for two red-state clowns to turn that momentum around, take an incident that could have been milked for significant political mileage and hand the momentum back to the GOP while making a star out of the man who basically shamed the Congress. Way to go Baucus and Conrad! Now how do we get rid of these two idiots?

by tarheel74 2009-09-11 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Ineptitude

We need to primary these senators.

by lqbruin 2009-09-11 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Ineptitude

We need to do SOMETHING.  The fuck is wrong with them?

by Jess81 2009-09-13 05:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Ineptitude

what's wrong with them?  These guys are either freaked at the reality of a black man in the white house, or they want donations from those who are freaked.  We downplayed racism during the campaign, since we have the majority and it wasn't nice to focus on such nasty stuff. Barack ignores it, which is really the only thing he can do and stay presidential, they don't want clarity, they want to get rid of Barack and bring back the white prejudiced majority.

It's not going to happen, the world has changed around them, and that's what makes them dangerous.

i agree with washington, Max ought to have mocked him and made him a joke, as, okay how many really's do you need before  no public money into health insurance for the undocumented?  He should have said, I don't think this is his issue at all, I think he really wanted to show his contempt for the man who is president.  But hey joe, if that is your name, this is still a democracy, even if you want to subvert our way of life by gathering the forces of ignorance.  

by anna shane 2009-09-13 03:42PM | 0 recs
Yeah, I don't care about looking 'weak'

Let the extreme right crow in their victory over getting language clarified.  We don't intend to give illegals health care anyway, so... what's to lose, really?

A good bill will be appreciated by the public and will reap rewards regardless of whether a nitpicker had a niggling issue with an open hypothetical.

by Dracomicron 2009-09-11 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, I don't care about looking 'weak'
They can crow all they want, the bill will be law, and we will have won.
by lqbruin 2009-09-11 12:56PM | 0 recs
Nothing like a rational person

to spoil a good cleansing rant with all this clear effective thinking.

You must be really boring at a Health Care town hall meetings, asking concise questions, and appreciating good cogent answers.

Where's the fun in that?

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-11 01:08PM | 0 recs
Yeah, sorry

I was raised to be boring but practical.

by Dracomicron 2009-09-14 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, I don't care about looking 'weak'

Yes, but in the meantime we have to write a good bill, and that means generating enough political momentum so that the good parts of the potential bill aren't dropped and it becomes what the GOP wants: "everyone has to buy private insurance.  The end."

Every stick these two goofballs hand the GOP makes it that much harder to reach the long run.

by Jess81 2009-09-13 05:30AM | 0 recs
This is the kind of crap Baucus is trying

to foist on us...

Written by Mike Enzi, who now will get the DOUBLE Gold, he can vote AGAINST the bill, and still get his bonus check from big insurance by doing their bidding for ramming this crap into it: articles?storyId=29299

A "framework plan" released today by the so-called "Group of Six" Senators negotiating a health reform bill  headed by Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) would open the door to gutting state laws.  The plan would result in a "race to the bottom" in health care regulation by allowing insurance companies that participate in "health care compacts" to choose the weakest state law to govern all their policies, regardless of which state the policies are sold in.  Currently, insurance companies must abide by the state laws of any state where they sell insurance.  The Baucus plan resembles an industry proposal carried by Mike Enzi (R-WY) in 2006 discussed below.

All the insurance industry need to is BUY a nice cheap red state, write their own regulations and have a purchased state gov pass it, THEN go to California and NY, and say "See, those are the regs!"

These lying sacks screamed for years about individual states having their own local rules when it was about abortion or gun control, but suddenly, they go all Federalist when it helps the corporations.

Modern Republicans are scum, simply whores for big business, and nothing more.

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-11 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: This is the kind of crap Baucus is trying

Your passion is awesome.  Keep it up, just remember that Obama wins.  He wins, and wins, and wins.  Others around him end up looking foolish.  Then he wins.  Have faith.  I don't have blind faith, in fact, I was nervous and very uncomfortable before the speech on Wednesday night.  That speech was so powerful and cut through all of the crap out there.  Sure the GOP has gotten louder and more barbaric.  They don't matter.  The independents do.  Check the post-speech polls.  The people are listening and are coming to Obama's side.

by lqbruin 2009-09-11 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Conrad and Baucus kiss Joe Wilson's Butt!

I know - I read about this and my jaw dropped.

It's times like these I wish I was absolute dictator of all TV, so that I could have Conrad and Baucus' captions read "(D, turnip truck)".

by Jess81 2009-09-13 05:32AM | 0 recs


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