It's Over

I have been reading this blog almost completely in the shadows since I began in January. I have refrained from posting diaries and comments because I was content with everything I was reading and this blog has been a great source of news to me ever since i started. I am writing today to say please let it go. Stop talking about old rivalries and please move on from the primaries and all the hatred everyone here has. It is disturbing that people here cannot let go of their disagreements with Dailykos posters during the primaries and will not stop complaining about how horribly Clinton was treated several months ago. I must confess that I read both Daily kos and Mydd and I have not seen hatred towards this blog at Daily kos, and certainly not in rec diaries. This blog's population has shrunk since the primaries considerably and it really saddens me to see people pushing people like me away from great blogs like this because they cannot forgive and just let go. Hilary lost and she and Obama have made amends, so can we. Diaries and comments that bash our fellow Democrats are not helpful and as good as it makes you feel, it will not make the outcome of the primaries change and nor will it change words that were spoken in the heat of an intense primary, so can we please just let it go and stop putting those diaries at the top of the rec list every time I check this blog. Thank you.

Tags: clinton, Daily Kos, Primaries (all tags)




I think that's a major factor.

by iohs2008 2008-12-03 08:13AM | 0 recs
I agree with your overall point

but I am surprised you haven't seen any comments at Daily Kos about MyDD being a "cesspool" for Clinton shills or whatever.

I am hopeful because fewer non-diaries (hostile comments masquerading as diaries) are being posted each day, and every MyDD open thread isn't immediately stuffed with 100 plus comments in the Obama-Clinton war.

In time most people will move on, but some will continue to hold grudges. Their loss.

by desmoinesdem 2008-12-03 08:14AM | 0 recs
There has been Anti-MyDD Sentiment

But most of it was directed at Jerome, and not the site as a whole.

I think if you search for Jerome Armstrong or MyDD, you will find critical diaries.

That said, due to the substantially higher traffic on that site, having a diary make the rec list is much, much harder, and thus the complainers tend to get filtered out.

by iohs2008 2008-12-03 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: There has been Anti-MyDD Sentiment

who cares... pseudonym crybabies.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-03 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree with your overall point

I will not deny that there is no Mydd bashing going on at Daily Kos, but it is basically limited to a small amount of comments relative to the vast community at Daily Kos and I have yet to see any Diary regarding harsh treatment of Obama or really anything bad about the Democratic primary

by WashDem 2008-12-03 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

lol, you come out from under a rock and this is what got you to post?  

waste of time, you had better things to do...

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-03 10:04AM | 0 recs
The poster does have a point

I have defended you from the haters, especially those who came out of the woodwork when Obama actually won.

This is your site. But...

I do believe the poster has a point. Looking at Alexa Web Traffic:

Once we reached this fall, it appears that there has been a slow but steady decline in web traffic, presumably as Obama's victory became more certain.

by iohs2008 2008-12-03 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: The poster does have a point

blah, so what.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-03 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: The poster does have a point

Alexa is fairly easy to game. I wouldn't trust it for a second.

by vcalzone 2008-12-03 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

What did I do to you Jerome, I don't see you posting the same response to the diaries I am talking about. I frankly expected more from someone like you than a stupid personal attack. I try to say something constructive and you just dismiss it as a stupid waste of time. No wonder you have been attacked by people at Daily Kos.

by WashDem 2008-12-03 12:22PM | 0 recs
You give what you get.

I'm sorry, but maybe you won't get attacked if you don't post attack diaries like this one. Just a thought.

by atdleft 2008-12-03 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: You give what you get.

I didn't really see any attack, it's not like there aren't back and forth primary rehash diaries every few days, or everyday.  And it also sounded like kumbaya to me.

by KLRinLA 2008-12-04 10:01PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

I skipped them. Worthless.

I just found it amusing that its what you came out over is all, as its trivial to the extreme.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-03 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Ignore the haters Jerome.

by KnoxVow 2008-12-03 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

LOL, this from one of the biggest haters here!

by venician 2008-12-04 11:11AM | 0 recs
When I find a diary trivial

I make sure to comment in it several times so that everyone knows just how trivial I find it.

by JJE 2008-12-03 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

You seem intent on ignoring what the primary was about beyond the two personages.

The Obama campaign was about a moderate/Left and short term Democratic agenda, mostly economic and management affairs, and more about black people and middle class white men than any other groups.

The Clinton campaign represented implicitly the long term Democratic agenda, i.e. a liberal future, and is/was more about middle class white women and Latino people than any other groups.  Along with an accommodation of the tiny pro Israel Democratic faction, which is ideologically Right.

Over at DKos there is an undertone of shame at their behavior toward HRC.  And now that they have Obama, a sense that a year or two from now he might not be leading where they want to go.

by killjoy 2008-12-03 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

"The Clinton campaign represented implicitly the long term Democratic agenda, i.e. a liberal future, and is/was more about middle class white women and Latino people than any other groups."

The people the Clinton campaign was *ex*plicitly about was "hard-working people, white people".

And what it implicitly was about was about... cynicism. It was implicitly about how we ought't nominate Obama because he's "unelectable", it was about how we "need" a Clinton, how only a Clinton can clean up after a Bush. How any other choice is sheer folly perpretrated by "Kool-Aid drinkers".

There are no words in the world to express the extent of my loathing for that expression, and how I will never ever forgive or accept anyone who used it, ever.

No matter how much Obama disappoints me in the future (and I'm pretty sure he will, I am always a pessimist) I still wager he'll be less a Clinton than Hillary would have been. And as such, no matter what else happens, I still say my choice to support him will have been well made.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-12-03 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Oh, what wonderful selective outrage.  Seems like you forgot all the endless lying about how Clinton was unelectable by Obama supporters because Christian Right voters would up out of their graves to show up and vote against her.  (The polls that showed her always doing better against McCain and always over 50%, which Obama did not, notwithstanding.)  And the hypocrisy about Iraq: you could never get an Obama supporter to explain what to do with the country in January 2009 that Clinton wouldnt.  Or the faux Change mantra, which was code for nonwhite for a lot of people or for the money being apportioned differently.  And the nearly illiterate and politically naive/dopey black kids that infested both Kos and here with their hysterical Obama propaganda and endless reverse racism against Bill and Hillary....

It was such a cowardly and offensive fraud, all of it.  And all of it to come up with excuses to cover the reality of fear of more than the limited changes Obama was talking about.

It was nauseating.  I just hope the internalized inferiority and pettiness it reflected, the vindictive bitterness at people who werent your real enemies was worth it and the horrible psychological needs it was about are somewhat sated.  Just be happy that Clinton supporters have been as liberal and forgiving as Obama supporters cant bring themselves to be.  

And do keep in mind, there are enough liberals in the Party now to primary Obama out if/when he goes fully Jimmy Carter on us.

by killjoy 2008-12-03 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Difference is that Obama was proven electable. Hillary hasn't yet proven her own electability. Given her primary campaign's bankruptcy, I doubt she'd have done so well in the GE.

You really are so liberal and forgiving. It oozes out of you, all the liberal forgiveness.

The "politically naive black kids" defeated the Clinton dynasty, despite all the people that have already started rooting for Chelsea Clinton 2016.
Hell, we even have such a "politically naive black kid" as president-elect of the United States.

I just wish that Obama had been ruthless enough to dump the Clintons entirely. He'll regret his fence-building, I'm quite sure. Hillary knows neither shame nor gratitude. She only knows subterfuge and undermining.

Even with Obama so far taking decisions horribly favourable to the Clinton, you admit to the Clinton side being ready to undermine everything with your last sentence.

Perhaps Obama believe that as SOS she'll atleast only be able to undermine him in foreign policy, while as Senator she'd undermine him in all policies.

So very liberal and forgiving your side is.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-12-03 01:59PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

You're sure all full of grace yourself.

Guess what: politics is not all about fulfilling narcissisms.  And when people get tired of the kind you're about, when it no longer serves their needs, they will vote it out.  That's just life in a democracy.

I've explained why Clinton got sidelined: the resistance to deeper change and people like you needing to feel like winners so desperately.  She's not out, no matter how much fear or loathing you show.  There is another half to the Party than your own, the one that thinks the 14th Amendment is a serious part of the Constitution, which your fine Constitutional law professor idol does not.  And it will have its champion.  And its time.  The denial of that on your part doesn't change that reality.

by killjoy 2008-12-03 03:40PM | 0 recs

If anyone respects the 14th Amendment, it's southern Democrats.

by JJE 2008-12-03 09:10PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Like JJ, I'm amused that you declared the Southern Democrat demographic to be the champions of the 14th Amendment.

And when the hardcore Clinton supporters went head over heels in their adoration of Sarah Palin, you'll suddenly claim they really give a damn about abortion rights? Or about gay rights for that matter?

Sorry, you're just not credible anymore.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-12-03 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Do you ever seen anthing past black?  You seem pretty racist and bigoted.  

by realtarheel 2008-12-03 05:25PM | 0 recs
He was quoting

by JJE 2008-12-03 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

"It was nauseating.  I just hope the internalized inferiority and pettiness it reflected, the vindictive bitterness at people who werent your real enemies was worth it and the horrible psychological needs it was about are somewhat sated.  Just be happy that Clinton supporters have been as liberal and forgiving as Obama supporters cant bring themselves to be."

Amen to that.  It's been a real inspiration watching you put yourself up on the cross for all of us.

by Jess81 2008-12-03 05:24PM | 0 recs
those damn illiterate black kids!

maybe we should require a literacy test.

by JJE 2008-12-03 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: those damn illiterate black kids!

Good point, why not a small voting fee at the door too, just to help with cost

by KLRinLA 2008-12-04 10:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

I agree with the need to put primary wars behind us, but you lose credibility in voicing that opinion by only explicitly criticizing one side in those wars.

by markjay 2008-12-03 11:38AM | 0 recs
Thank You, Mark!

Why is it that the ones crying the most about the "prolonged primary wars" are the ones prolonging this mess by continuing to obsess over it and blame people for it? I'm so done with this crap! I left all this behind in June, but for some reason some posters here can't understand that the primaries are OVER.

And why must legitimately good diaries be pushed off the Rec List for this?

by atdleft 2008-12-03 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You, Mark!

The Clintonista side already pretty much admits to being ready to undermine Obama at any opportunity.

Just ask them how they'll react if Obama feels he has to replace his SoS. Killjoy above warns us they'll be primarying him in 2012 if Obama's not to their liking. He's not even president yet, and they're threatening us already.

I don't remember the last time there was such a vile faction in a president's cabinet, so actively getting ready to knock him down if he displeases them.

If only they atleast had some ideology atleast. There's no ideology behind them other than the sheer worship of the Clintons. It's not about Obama displeasing them on any particular issues, it's about him not paying proper respect to her Highness Hillary.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-12-03 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You, Mark!

Get over your CDS.

by KnoxVow 2008-12-03 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

MYDD & Texasdarlin shredded any honorable reputation they had once they started up things about Obama's citizenship and other fake controversies (obama flipping off clinton, obama playing the race card, obama not being able to win the general).

MYDD went from an informative blog to a sounding board for people who did not want to accept Obama as the legitimate nominee. With that said, it's important to note that Jonathan and Todd have not been like this. Instead, the blame lies with Jerome and other diarists like Alegre and Texasdarlin.

by mecarr 2008-12-03 12:17PM | 0 recs
Excuse me...

But how the hell is Jerome responsible for Alegre or TexasDarlin? Last I checked, neither of them has blogged here for the last five months! Sorry to be crude, but I must ask: Why can't you get over it?

Yes, we Clintonistas liked coming to MyDD during the primaries because we weren't bashed here like we were at Kos and TPM and HuffPo and most of the other Big Blogs. Did some here go too far in attacking Obama? Yes. However, that was many months ago. And last I checked, all the major PUMA instigators have either been banned or left on their own.

So why continue to obsess over the past? Jerome has done plenty here to support Democrats, and so has most everyone else in this community. We may not all be cookie-cutter "netroots" like certain other communities, but I like that.

And perhaps if you still don't like this community, you can always find somewhere else to blog instead of just blaming Jerome for things out of his control.

by atdleft 2008-12-03 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse me...

Jerome is not responsible for Alegre or Texas Darlin, my point though is that Jerome, Alegre & Texas Darlin made up a large part of MYDD.

Look I'm totally over whatever MYDD was like back in the primaries, I wouldn't be here otherwise. However, I do think that the outragoeus comments about Obama during the primaries have resulted in MYDD losing influence and more visitors compared to other blogs.

by mecarr 2008-12-03 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse me...

Look I'm totally over whatever MYDD was like back in the primaries,

rofl, obviously, you need a few more trips to the sandman.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-03 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Hillary 2016! I will never read Kos again.

by sterkt 2008-12-03 02:09PM | 0 recs
Michelle 2016

After all she will have 8 years of experience as first lady.

by parahammer 2008-12-03 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Michelle 2016

Plus years as SofS, if Obama is re-elected, asshat.

by ChitownDenny 2008-12-03 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Michelle 2016
my bad.  I'm in fight mode, because of the regular "primary fighters".
please ignore my response to you.
by ChitownDenny 2008-12-03 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

WashDem's point is a fair one.  The folks at DailyKos HAVE moved on.  Maybe this IS just because "their" candidate won the nomination, and they would revert to the snarling internecine warfare tone of the late primary season, if only given half an excuse (or even less than that) to do so.  

To be fair, most of the folks at MyDD seem to have moved on, too.  (Nor is there anything in WashDem's post suggesting otherwise.) But WashDem is correct that some at MyDD have NOT moved on. And this perpetual picking at primary season scabs is doing the progressive movement, of which we are ALL a part, NO good at ALL.  We need to be focusing on the struggle ahead, with a badly wounded but far from out of the fight Right Wing.  

As for the fact that WashDem has admitted this is his first post here ever -- how this somehow disqualifies WashDem's comments from serious consideration is anything but self-evident.  Isn't it a good thing that new people are moved to join the progressive netdialogue?? And especially when someone does so for a constructive reason like WashDem's, they ought to be given the civil treatment of being engaged substantively.                  

by MikeKingfromSeattle 2008-12-03 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: I think

That's a pretty good insight.

by Jess81 2008-12-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

After all the sexism displayed against Hillary in in the primary on dailykos I will never forgive them.If it wasn't for Jerome Hillary supporters would not have had a place to go where people talked down to us and attacked us.Even Obama believes Hillary knows more about foreign policy than him which is why he put her in SoS.Obama brings out the worst in people on blogs.

by KnoxVow 2008-12-03 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

thanks for the troll-rate, troll.


by alyssa chaos 2008-12-03 06:55PM | 0 recs
KnowVox is back!

Demonstrating the truth of the last statement in his/her comment, albeit not in the manner intended.

by JJE 2008-12-03 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

yes. it is over. sad to see mydd in this state.[This blog started it all for me]

it seems like the whole point of the diary was missed by some people on the thread...

by alyssa chaos 2008-12-03 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

The point of this diary has already been addressed on this site multiple times.  I, personally, can attest to that.

by ChitownDenny 2008-12-03 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Most of the good writers here left quite a while ago. There are a few remaining, but many of them are simply cross-posting here from other, better blogs.

Maybe this site can emerge from the ashes, but it's been in an identity crisis since the primaries. To see three and four day old diaries on the recent list just shows how little participation there is anymore.

What was sown is now being reaped, it appears.

by BobzCat 2008-12-03 08:34PM | 0 recs
I was told DailyKos is the blog for high info

folks. I for one, couldn't understand a thing you wrote. Are you over it, yet?

by louisprandtl 2008-12-03 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

Will both sides just please STFU and take responsibility for your own shit and quit placing all the blame on one side or the other.

The truth is, this is not a black and white matter where one side was completely at fault and the other side was completely innocent.  Assholes existed everywhere, and apparantly still do.  I'm not gonna get into the childish game of saying who is more at fault for this petty bickering, because it accomplsihes nothing, and it really doesn't matter anymore.

Until each person reaches the point that they're willing to say the past is in the past and move on, this is never gonna end.

For a bunch of generally intelligent and politically astute people, I feel like I'm watching my 6 and 7 year old niece and nephew bickering over who took the ball from who.  Grow up.  It doesn't matter anymore.

Resentment ain't gonna get anybody anywhere other than lonely and miserable.  Rather than constantly trying to seek out those on the other side of this matter who piss you off and baiting them into a pointless fight, why not find somebody who supported the other candidate in the primaries and talk about the things you agree with and pay each compliments.  You know, be nice to each other?

And no, this isn't directed at anyone in particular in this thread, or even everyone in this thread.  Some here have posted constructively, so no, I'm not taking the sanctimonious position that I'm above all of this or have never stooped into these silly fights myself.  I'm just pointing out that it really is time to leave it all behind us.

I love you all.

by Obamaphile 2008-12-03 11:39PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Over

by desmoinesdem 2008-12-04 12:30PM | 0 recs


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