Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton supporters

Wikileaks has a leaked memo which appears to be an internal memo from the McCain campaign to team members targeting Internet-based campaigning. The strategy? Take advantage of Clinton supporters of a specific demographic, target and inflame their anger to the point that they vote for McCain out of spite and fearmongering.

The following is the memo in pdf form found here. The entire Wikileak article, including arguments for and against its legitimacy, can be found here. Bolding is mine.


MEMORANDUM
To: (redacted)
From: S. Schmidt
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Clinton Strategy
According to both internal polling and exit polls by independent news
organizations, the Democratic Party is becoming increasingly polarized along
certain segments of its base. The recent result in West Virginia, while generally
unsurprising and definitely unlikely to cause any real shift in the race,
highlights the growing bitterness between certain supporters of Clinton and
the Obama camp in general. This unique situation has created an opening that
could help depress the turnout of key Democratic demographics in November.
The specific group we are targeting is a cross-section of white, female voters
over the age of 40. Internal polling reveals that this group is the most likely to
support John McCain after Obama wins the nomination. However, we expect
Obama's numbers to improve following Clinton's drop. Our job is to make sure
that number stays as low as possible.

Our limited financial resources and the media's attention on the Democratic
race, however, prevent us from reaching this group. Our aim is to point out
specific issues that we believe resonate well:
  1. Sen. Obama's connection to Rev. Wright
  2. His inexperience
  3. His links to the corrupt Chicago political machine
However, we cannot fully achieve this goal without a greater commitment on
the part of McCain's fundraisers and our various media partners. In lieu of
that, we have developed a number of inexpensive ways to reach this audience.
We have already worked to reinforce the Clinton campaign's narrative about
the unfair treatment that some networks, specifically MSNBC, have given her
camp. We are also planning to unroll a new campaign to highlight Obama's
experience deficit.
Simultaneously, our team has been testing new lines of attack through
independent pro-Clinton communities on the Internet. Our hope is that our
message here will spread by word-of-mouth.
Our local community organizing
has also been successful. We have organized dozens of "meet-ups" across the
country for Clinton supporters, and we have used that time to stress the
importance of punishing the DNC for choosing the undemocratically selected far-left Obama. At the moment, this is nothing more than a headache for the
Obama campaign. With a greater commitment on your part, I hope to see it
metastasize into something much more.
Let me know if you need more detail.
-S

Unsurprising. But I hope having this spelled out in black and white from the McCain campaign itself illuminates a situation that I think a great many Clinton supporters would recoil from falling for, given half a moment to sit and think through their disappointment and anger.

Not only are you being played, you're being played on the cheap. Your votes aren't even worth the money to earn honestly, based on policy and McCain's qualifications. No, the only reason your vote is being courted is because McCain's campaign knows anger is blinding, and they want to take advantage of that anger to blind you enough into acting as a firewall for the support Obama will gain after Clinton leaves the race.

Having said that, if you want to support McCain in November, that's your choice. But you should be aware that the people that are really taking advantage of you, and your honest anger and honest patriotism, aren't on the side of the other Democratic nominee.


-------------------------------------------------
Edit: thanks for the rec list placement. I'd like to clarify that no, I'm not trying to insult anyone with this diary. If you're insulted by McCain's campaign and their own words - viewing you as a demographic, cynically taking advantage of your deeply held beliefs and emotions that you came to on your own - don't get angry at me. I find it just as insulting as you do. And if you don't find it insulting - you're applauding his move, even if not his motives - the consider the motive. Consider how that measures up to your own standards and ideals that you've professed by supporting Clinton.

Tags: McCain Clinton (all tags)

Comments

316 Comments

This would be the McCain who said

"Why is Chelsea so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno?" to some audience

"That's a good question" in response to "How are you going to be beat the bitch?"

"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." to his wife

by bobdoleisevil 2008-06-02 12:27PM | 0 recs
Heh.

Yeah McCain would really be great on women's issues wouldn't he?  

Do those "Democrats" considering voting for McCain realize that the man they believe to be a moderate is a dyed in the wool conservative who will be forced by his party to appoint conservative judges, maintain abstinence only education, make getting an abortion harder and harder, destroy SCHIP, continue the war in Iraq, start a war in Iran, stop sensible global warming legislation, veto universal healthcare, and generally continue this country's slow (or not so slow) descent into a third rate banana republic?

I hope they stop and consider what a McCain presidency will actually mean for American families, and cast a vote based upon that, not on some fleeting notion of revenge against Obama and Dean.

I say this with no snark intended: Rise Clinton Supporters, Rise!

by cato 2008-06-02 01:02PM | 0 recs
Vote for Grampy!

by Deadalus 2008-06-02 01:30PM | 0 recs
McCain's Voting Record is 5% McCain 95% Bush

OMG! I can't beleive this shit!

At the moment, this is nothing more than a headache for the
Obama campaign. With a greater commitment on your part, I hope to see it
metastasize into something much more.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-06-02 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: so now we have phony memos

Congrats on making MyDD as filthy as DailyKOS.

You people have no class.  Just trash.

The memo looks like another dirty Obama trick.

But even if it's not, appealing to women and other voters who have been trashed by the Obama campaign is perfectly legitimate.  

by PlainWords 2008-06-03 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: so now we have phony memos

I have ID'd you as a McCain supporter

by JDF 2008-06-03 03:29PM | 0 recs
Shorter version:

Geraldine Ferraros and Harriet Christians of the US, join us in making sure Teh Blakk Guy doesn't win. Join us in the quest for Hillary's revenge!

Sincerely,
White Men for playing White Women Like Fiddles.

by Firewall 2008-06-02 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

Gee Firewall that will really make women support you! Good work, unity pony.

by redwagon 2008-06-02 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

I'd say that this is a pretty accurate paraphrasing of the sentiment in the McCain memo. Your comment should really be addressed to the McCain camp for trying to con Clinton supporters away from Obama by capitalizing on the rawness of her impending delegate loss.

by Thadd Selden 2008-06-02 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

A couple things to remind yourself.

Firewall = some random guy on some random blog.

Obama = The guy who is actually running for preisident.

If your opinion of the first, influences your opinion of the second, you need to get out more.

by Lettuce 2008-06-02 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

Hear, hear.

by deminva 2008-06-02 03:54PM | 0 recs
Is this snark...?

not at all seriously..

But, really, this is the Democratic process. Regardless of things like this, I think the whole pundits message that we are supposed to drop our support for the only candidate that we feel is responsible enough to lead this country, the only candidate who has a workable healthcare plan, the only candidate who cares about all the people of this country.. is bullshit.

I will not give up on these important issues so that big media and big punditocracy can get their jollies...

Hillary can WIN in 2008

No way..

by architek 2008-06-02 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this snark...?

It's one thing to say you're going to support Hillary while she is in the race.  Fine.  But when you suggest that when she drops out tomorrow and openly endorses and supports Obama against McW, you're going to turn your back on not only Obama but Hillary herself and work to enable Bush's 3rd term instead, that's the dropping off point for you around here.  Free Republic is calling...

by NJIndependent 2008-06-02 05:07PM | 0 recs
This is ridiculous

Not a single link in the whole diary.

It's most likely just made up BS.

What a worthless crap diary.

by rankles 2008-06-03 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: This is ridiculous

OK, there is a link, but it wants me to accept some 'security certificate' in order to view it.

Nope.

If this was true it would be in the mainstream media, especially given that most of the MSM is in Obama's hip pocket.

by rankles 2008-06-03 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: This is ridiculous

You don't know much about how the Internet works, do you?

by upstate girl 2008-06-03 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: This is ridiculous

actually yes i do.

And no, I will NEVER accept a security certificate from a website in order to view a simple page.

You don't know much about the internet works, do you?

by rankles 2008-06-03 10:20PM | 0 recs
certificate really isn't a big deal

and mainstream media rarely prints memos.

and they love mccain a lot too.

by ab03 2008-06-03 11:51AM | 0 recs
Been away for over a week

Come back to find I still can't stand the online supporters of BO. Just makes me loathe BO along with the hate peddlers who stink up DD like they have turned the orange stain et al into a cesspool.

by Newport News Dem 2008-06-02 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Been away for over a week

Thankfully, not everyone allows their world-view to be shaped by anonymous internet message boards.

by catalysis 2008-06-02 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Been away for over a week

Sheesh. You need to find a better way to relax.

by Rationalisto 2008-06-02 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Been away for over a week

I met this one guy from Chicago.  Ever since then, I can't stand the Bulls, Cubs, Bears, White Sox, or elevated trains!

by ottto 2008-06-03 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

"Geraldine Ferraros and Harriet Christians of the US, join us in making sure Teh Blakk Guy doesn't win. Join us in the quest for Hillary's revenge!"

This is exactly the kind of insult directed at white women voters that insures they will NEVER vote for Barack Obama, his campaign has been a long series of offensive insults, directly and indirectly.

They absolutely will vote for John McCain, in droves. It's not ofensive to be called a demographic, vs being called ignorant, bitter, and racist.

by 07rescue 2008-06-03 03:45AM | 0 recs
Re: why never vote for

 My head is spinning from your convoluted LOGIC.

by xdem 2008-06-03 06:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

If you vote for McCain because your feminist sensibilities have been offended, then you are an idiot.  Sorry to put it that way, but it's true.  The words that may have offended you are NOTHING compared to the policies that McCain will enact that will offend you even more.

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-03 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Shorter version:

SO, your telling  me that by being mad at Obama, white women are voting for THIS guy?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/ 2007-02-19-mccain-roe_x.htm

by xodus1914 2008-06-03 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Thanks...rec'd

by nogo postal 2008-06-02 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Everybody rec this please.

It needs to be read.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-02 12:29PM | 0 recs
What?

Pro-Clinton communities on the Internet being used to further the campaign of McCain?  

I am shocked.  SHOCKED!

by rf7777 2008-06-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

How many times have i read BO supporters say "BO is not going to beg HRC supporters to vote for him".  Or suggestions that HRC should have to beg to support BO?  Now BO supporters may disagree and that is fine.

But the fact is these voters are up for grabs and if BO wants the support of these voters (he already has mine) in the fall he is going to have to work and work hard to get them.  As are his supporters.  

david

by giusd 2008-06-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

I use the "we're not going to beg" line all the time, but certainly not in the context you suggest.

We're not going to beg people who have nothing but venom and vituperation for Obama and who suggest that McCain (or enabling McCain) is a better alternative.

If people have legitimate concerns about Obama, or how they feel they were treated in this race, we want nothing more than to discuss this with them. But people who basically say, "Obama is a racist, sexist piece of crap who will never get my vote" doesn't exactly leave much room for conciliation. Those are the people we ain't gonna beg.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

After he grabs the majority of delegates, his focus will be entirely on beating McCain, not Clinton. My concern is that Clinton's more ardent supporters will want to continue to make things about the primary race.

The best way to win over loyal Democrats should be to show the differences between Obama and McCain. Those who still won't vote for him after that is made clear won't be happy no matter how much he does. In my opinion, he shouldn't put too much effort into rehashing the primary to win them over since the only person who has a chance of swaying them is Clinton.

by Thadd Selden 2008-06-02 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

If his positions he's put forth throughout this race aren't enough to lure these voters over to his camp, I don't see the viability or persuasiveness of any other arguement.

I think what you're referring to is the idea suggested by some that Obama needs to placate Hillary's supporters.  I think that would be unwise and ultimately regarded as patronizing.

In time it would be great to see a rational movement of Hillary supporters toward Obama because his positions fit their cause. Other than that I don't see how he can woo them in a way that wouldn't appear diminutive to Hillary or the historic nature of her campaign.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 01:42PM | 0 recs
For the love of GOD!

Barack Obama is the only man on earth whos words just dont matter.  Everyone BUT him speaks for him.  

Please dont draw your opinions on why you think are Obama supporters, please dont draw your associations on you think are Obama associaties.  Please draw you conclusions directly off the impressions you get from him.  His writings his words - hell I wasn't mad people got upset over bittergate it was the only thing he actually said even though he didn't mean it, and tried like heck to tell the world what he meant.

The real fact is we are engaged in a war of agression in Iraq under pretenses that got people hung in Nuremburg.  The real facts are we have ships floating around where they torture humans to within an inch of their lives.  The real facts are we have corporate interests unchecked feeding like vultures off the hard work of real Americans while they take the profit overseas.  The real facts are you are taking your life in your hands if drive on thousands of bridges in America.  The real facts are I just paid 54 bucks to fill up a Ford Focus.  If you're on the McCain side of all that despite what anyone including the devil has to say, whatever!

by Adept2u 2008-06-03 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Looks like McCain is taking another tried-and-true technique of the Obama playbook...find a constituency that you can manipulate with negative "soft information" about your opponent and hope they flock to you in big numbers.

It worked for Obama because he's a very skillful communicator with amazing message control.  I'm not sure it will work for McCain.

by mtnspirit 2008-06-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

another tried-and-true technique of the Obama playbook...find a constituency that you can manipulate with negative "soft information" about your opponent and hope they flock to you in big numbers.

Evidence or retraction.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Your post is evidence that it already has...

by rf7777 2008-06-02 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Not really...truth is, I was very bummed when I wrote that post, and now I regret it.  I'm a bad democrat!

by mtnspirit 2008-06-03 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

mtnspirit,

Are you sure that you're planning to vote for the Democratic nominee in the fall?  

You've said so in the past, but also that you will not lift a finger to help if Clinton is not on the ticket.

Does that mean that you're going to actively work to dispense negative information about our likely Democratic nominee, yet still vote for him?

I'm just a little confused about what you've said you will do, and what you are actually doing.

Cheers

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-02 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

I'm bummed and that comes out in my comments these days.

by mtnspirit 2008-06-03 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

I understand.  I know how you feel.  Obama wasn't my first chice either, but I still like him, a lot.

Edwards for AG!

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-03 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Actually, I've become schizophrenic this last week, I think.  I go back and forth, sometimes forcing a smile and saying "Go Obama!" and sometimes wanting to throw rotten food at his picture.  This primary got WAY too personal for some of us.  

It's probably a good thing my candidate lost. I'm insufferable when my team wins.

by mtnspirit 2008-06-03 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

I usually feel guilty when I win...so I feel a little bit of that right now.

There was a point, (in early January), that I was thinking about a Clinton/Edwards, or Clinto/Obama ticket.  My theory was that 16 years of WH control would be enough time to really shift the direction of the country...permanently.

Hillary is going to be in the mix somewhere...and her political career is far from over.  She's essentially proved that a woman can be President, even if she did not win.  

The most interseting irony of the Primary race:  Bill now stands in her shadow!  

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-03 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo:

Likability counts for a lot in politics and McCain is the most likable Republican I have ever seen.

So vote for a Democratic that is not a legitimate candidate, one who only his "followers" like or vote for man that stands by his principles, even when others don't agree, a man all of DC respects on both sides of the fence?

Hmmmm  Hard choice.

by RockRooky 2008-06-03 04:36AM | 0 recs
Though I realize it is not authenticated...

I find that memo to be quite believable.  It certainly would explain a lot of the behavior we have seen.  Also, it seems quite likely that the McCain campaign would engage in tactics of that sort.

It certainly seems authentic.

by you like it 2008-06-02 12:31PM | 0 recs
Rove is advising McCain

so I find this very believable.

by NeciVelez 2008-06-03 02:20AM | 0 recs
Ick

At the moment, this is nothing more than a headache for the Obama campaign. With a greater commitment on your part, I hope to see it metastasize into something much more.

Stay classy, McCain supporters.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:32PM | 0 recs
agreed

especially unfortunate "mestastasize"..

by 4justice 2008-06-02 12:39PM | 0 recs
That's actually the word that makes me doubt

the authenticity of the memo.

by Liberal Monk 2008-06-02 02:22PM | 0 recs
Me too. n/t

by edg1 2008-06-02 07:35PM | 0 recs
You can't "stay classy"...

...unless you were classy to begin with.

So that really should read: Become classy, McCain supporters.

by Elsinora 2008-06-02 12:51PM | 0 recs
Heh, Anchorman snark

What do you call it when you say something, but mean that they're the opposite for humorous intent?  

Wait I got it.

Sarcasm!

Dude are you being ironic?

I don't even know anymore.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Heh, Anchorman snark

Funniest comedy of the decade.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 01:03PM | 0 recs
A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

that the Obama camp has created an opening for them, and they are exploiting it.  

BTW: I'm not suggesting that women vote for McCain.  I'm just pointing out that its a good political tactic that was caused by the tactics of the Obama camp.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

Trolls are playing you. I'm sure you've mojo'd a few around here.

That's the point of the diary.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-02 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

and notice the date of the memo and now notice how many of these trolls showed up here around the same date. Next time you think someones a troll, just check out when they started posting here.

by venician 2008-06-02 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

You are an official assclown.

I hate to "curse" but that is the only word I can give you.

So this is Obama's fault?

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:36PM | 0 recs
Who used the term fault?

The reality is that women voters are upset with the process right now, and McCain has noticed it and is taking advantage of it.  Its a good political move, regardless of whether you like McCain.

Listen, my Pistons were defeated by the Boston Celtics this weekend, and I was upset.  However, it was clear that whenever the Pistons double teamed Kevin Garnett by switching a player off Ray Allen, Garnett would dish it out Allen for a wide open jumper.  It was a good strategy by the Pistons, because Garnett is hard to contain one-on-one.  However, the strategy was exploited by the Celtics, who noticed that the switches were being made resulting in an open man, and made adjustments to get the ball to the open man.  I wish such a successful strategy were not used against my favorite team, but I admire it nonetheless.

How is this any different?  I'm giving McCain credit for taking advantage of a situation that is RIPE for takinga advantage of.  Should he be made fun of for taking advantage of a situation that could net him voters and help him win?

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Made fun of? No. Exposed for being the dishonorable, disingenuous, conniving tool that exemplifies the Republican Party? Yes. This isn't a stupid move by McCain's campaign, but it is an insulting, obvious, desperate, and ill-spirited one.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:48PM | 0 recs
We'll have to agree to disagree. To me, its just

a politician seeing and opening, and going for it.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to disagree. To me, its j

If you put on your democrat hat and look at this, though, doesn't it psis you off a little bit?  I certainly agree that it's a good political move for McCain (until it got leaked).  However, I find it troubling that this could be working despite the fact that in blind taste tests, democratic white women over 40 prefer Obama's policies over McCain's policies 100-0.

Okay so I didn't do the blind taste test, but I think we can imagine which a democratic white woman over 40 would pick if offered a list of McCain's positions next to a list of Obama's positions devoid of the context of the primary.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:43PM | 0 recs
Mojo for the blind taste test. nt

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to disagree.

So propaganda is good as long as it's enacted well.  In my opinion, that makes it all the more dangerous to the common good and democracy in general.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 01:52PM | 0 recs
We'll have to agree to AGREE WITH ME

Yes, McCain sees an opening, and is going for it, great. For basketball.

But lousy for Roe v. Wade.

So, if you like your politics, like you like your basketball, chuckle.

If you like your politics like you like your Supreme Court, that is, liberal, then, we should stomp it.

by Lettuce 2008-06-02 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to AGREE WITH ME

off-base as normal. Putting partisan feelings aside is a sign of intelegence ya know. In any case the ONLY reason McSame has this opening is because of BHO "supports" who have driven so many people away from him.

by zerosumgame 2008-06-02 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to AGREE WITH ME

I say this as respectfully as possible.

What?

Seriously.

What?

by Lettuce 2008-06-02 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to AGREE WITH ME

looks liek he/she tried to write at your level.

by trytobereal 2008-06-02 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: We'll have to agree to AGREE WITH ME

Nice typo...

by nathanp 2008-06-02 04:08PM | 0 recs
Well, as a non-female, Democrat, it certainly

didn't sway me to vote for McCain.  

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Yep.  It's almost as insulting as this diary. Millions of independent women do not need McCain's talking points or yours to guide their decisions.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-02 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Then get angry at the McCain campaign for taking advantage of your independent spirit and manipulating it for his own purposes. He only wants you to continue being angry - angry enough to vote for him.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Nobody is taking advantage of me or manipulating me.  Where do you get these crazy ideas?  You are making assumptions about people you don't know, assumptions which apparantly are only grounded in your own bias.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-02 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Are you more insulted that someone might think you were being manipulated, or more insulted that McCain is actually trying to?

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

If you need to compare your actions with somebody else to come of less disagreeable it might be time to rethink your behavior. The argument "somebody else is more annoying then me" isn't that persuasive. You'll have more success if you approach people as if they're not easily lead sheep that need your truthtelling to be pushed back to the true path. Instead you should figure out what they are concerned about and address that.  

And yes, I can understand why some people took this diary the wrong way, because you present this diary as if McCain strategy has already worked, and that the over 40 women who support Clinton have shallowed it hook line and sinker. While the memo itself says that it isn't the case. Instead of warning people that McCain isn't genuine and is not a viable alternative to Clinton while Obama is, the dairy comes off like it says that all Clinton supporters are easily duped people. Obviously not the message you want to get across.

You didn't want to insult people, but they tell you that they were, that should tell you something. If you get a lot of pushback because people found your tone insulting then there is something wrong with how you communicated your message, then you as a communicator didn't succeed and you should pay more attention to how you phrase your words. It's your dairy and thus responsibility that it doesn't rub a lot of people the wrong way, because you want to convince people to come round to your point of view and for that to work, they have to feel that you take their  views serious and not that you think they are being naively "played" or bad hypocrites if they disagree with you.

If you want to convince people that something is bad or outrageous then it is your job to be convincing not theirs to look through your confrontational style. It's you who wants something from them, namely that they don't support the misogynist McCain out of spite over the far better Obama. So it's you who must do the heavy lifting in persuading them. And you do that by being non confrontational, nuanced and understanding to their standpoint while giving them better reasons to support Obama then they have for supporting McCain.

by Ernst 2008-06-02 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

"Then get angry at the McCain campaign for taking advantage of your independent spirit and manipulating it for his own purposes."

Nonsense, what comes across is you and the diarist trying to manipulate Clinton supporters into supporting Obama by a transparent ploy. You stab friends in the back, sneer and try to browbeat them into submission and defeat with lies, innuendo, and pathological projections about their candidate, then you think you are going to get them right back on your side?  Not in a million years! Those bridges are long burned.

The Obama campaign has created a huge division in the Democratic party, and it will not just be papered over. Of course the McCain campaign should be trying to woo every demographic, just as the Obama campaign will try to. That's politics, remember?

by 07rescue 2008-06-03 03:57AM | 0 recs
There's a difference

We're trying to use reasoned debate to sway your opinion.

They're trying to pretend to be one of you, or worse, one of us, and manipulate your feelings.

No, you don't need to have external stimulus to help you shape your opinions, but you choose to come here anyway.  Would you rather your opponents were honest but critical or have them lie and say only what you want to hear?

Both want your vote.  Which one has more merit?

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 01:18PM | 0 recs
How about Stuckey, eh?

That kid is going to be a monster.

by you like it 2008-06-02 12:51PM | 0 recs
Yeah. We just need to figure out what to do with

Rasheed Wallace.  

You can't keep a guy around for $14 million per year that you cannot count on in the playoffs (15 minutes late to shootaround in an elimination game, and only scores like 4 points?)... but having said that, you don't find such offensively and defensively skilled 6'11 players, with such a soft shooting touch and such long range, and when you do, you don't just give them up for a bag of used basketballs.  

But on the other, other hand, the team's personality is based on Rasheed's personality.  That whole "we're so talented we can just flip the switch" mindset, which causes them to lose games and fall behind in a seven game series, comes from him.  He is widely known as the "spiritual leader of the team".  In other words, he's become a cancer.  

Decisions, decisions.  

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah. We just need to figure out what to do wi

Wade, Bosh and Carmelo could of been Pistons.

A dynasty could of been born.

People must hate Darko in Detroit.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-02 01:09PM | 0 recs
Ah, but Darko was traded for Stuckey, so alls well

that ends well.

One thing about Joe Dumars, when he is picking late in the draft (Okur, Maxiel, Stuckey,  Prince, etc.), he's a genius, and he's batting nearly 1,000.  

When he has a top 12 pick, not so much (Darko, Mateen Cleaves, Rodney White).  More like batting zero.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, but Darko was traded for Stuckey, so alls

Whatever happened to Mateen Cleaves?  I remember when he was the next Magic Johnson, and now I think he's in the D-league.  I really liked him on that Michigan State team.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:46PM | 0 recs
What do you get when you combine a lot of heart

with a lack of height, a lack of shooting ability, and a lack of speed, and then give the guy with a lot of heart a lot of money?

Mateen made his career in college off his hunger, not his skill.  He was slow and couldn't shoot, but had the heart of a champion.  

By the time he was drafted though, his brother had been killed (I think he was shot to death), and he was a millionaire.  So, his one positive attribute, hunger, went away.

Anyway, he was only drafted to sell tickets.  Grant Hill was about to leave for Orlando, the team had nothing left to sell itself, and Dumars figured that the local kid would put butts in the stands.  

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 01:56PM | 0 recs
Orlando ought to hate him more.

We traded him for their 2007 15th overall draft pick.  That pick turned into Stuckey, and Darko no longer plays for Orlando.

by you like it 2008-06-02 01:33PM | 0 recs
Exactly. Sometimes its not about the move, but

how you recover from the move down the line.  I don't play chess, but I imagine its similar to running a team.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 01:57PM | 0 recs
hey - isnt bosh a raptor?

dont try poaching!

by canadian gal 2008-06-02 05:47PM | 0 recs
It is a problem.

It's frustrating because Sheed has been my favorite player since they got him.  I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't think that any other team would see his value.  I don't think that if he were traded that we would get much in return.

by you like it 2008-06-02 01:30PM | 0 recs
As long as we're way off topic, I'm hearing the

Charlotte Bobcats, now that they will be coached by Larry Brown, may trade Omeka Okafor and/or Jason Richardson for Rasheed Wallace.

I'm also hearing Elton Brand for Rasheed and Juan Dixon.

I'm also hearing Rasheed to Chicago for Luol Dang.

Nobody knows... but one thing the Pistons have going for them is that Rasheed is in the last year of an approximately $14 million contract.  That means he is an extremely valuable trade asset, if for nothing else for the $14 mil in salary cap relief he'd bring to his new team.  They'd get him for a six month tryout, and they could either re-sign him if they like him, or let him go and have lots of $ to spend on a free agent.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Oy. Not helpful.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

And neither should it be about sexist comments like these.

Please this is a dairy that tries to persuade people, yet all your comment does is insult.

by Ernst 2008-06-02 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Who used the term fault?

Hide-rated for obvious sexist content.

by Brannon 2008-06-02 03:04PM | 0 recs
Women voters, unqualified and unquantified?
There are some women voters who are upset. As a white, post menopausal woman, I take umbrage.
Have supported Obama strongly since the kitchen sink. Of all my women friends, only one supports HRC.
I just do not lump women voters into one category.
McCain will try to pick off a few of the HRC supporters, but his campaign underestimate the intelligence of half the population.
by barnowl 2008-06-02 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

Yes, Obama's constant praising and congratulations of Hillary and her victories, as well as stepping in and nipping the RFK kerfluffle in the bud shows his "tactics" that created the opening for McCain.

Meanwhile, her constant slime throwing (e.g. Farrakhan, he's not a Muslim "as far as I know", Did I mention Rev. Wright for 34th time?) and endorsements of McCain were just "tough campaigning" and he should go to her hat in hand, and beg her to join him for the sake of unity.

In fact, why not concede the top spot on the ticket? That would be the ultimate show of class by Erik from Survivo.....I mean, Barack Obama.

by Reeves 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

Your post is an example of why this is happening.  Your "he's hot a muslin as far as i know" is a out and out lie.  HRC said "No no of course not.  Then at the end of a long answer she said "and i take his at his word".  If there is an opening for McCain you should think about your own smear and BS.  You did nothing but twist her words and you have the nerve to talk about Unity.

david

by giusd 2008-06-02 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

I would hope we can all admit that both candidates' supporters occasionally have been guilty of reading the worst intentions in the other candidate's comments.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart

Yes this is something we can both very much agree with.  

david

by giusd 2008-06-02 01:11PM | 0 recs
Good start guys

:)

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

Sorry, had to de-lurk on this one:

("There is nothing to base that on. As far as I know," Clinton carefully replied to CBS interviewer Steve Kroft on the question of whether Obama was a Muslim, after pictures of him in Somali dress circulated on the Internet)

by Xochi 2008-06-03 02:00AM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

This s crap. Endless crap from the Obama campaign supporters. No, we will not vote for him, we don't appreciate being treated like crap.

by 07rescue 2008-06-03 04:04AM | 0 recs
Re: A smart move by the McCain campaign. They saw

Well, I'm not sure how pointing out something she did in fact say is "crap" or how it equates to treating people like crap.  If correcting assertions with facts is out of line, then I guess I haven't been missing much by not participating in the debate here.

by Xochi 2008-06-03 05:19AM | 0 recs
this is politics

just the way it is going to be played by McCain and the repugs.  whether you like it or not, "its just politics", and no it doesn't make it right at all.  They're scrambling for votes too.

by 4justice 2008-06-02 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: this is politics

Amen, 4justice

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:49PM | 0 recs
Um

I am a Clinton supporter, who won't vote for McCain. Please tell me how I am being played (Hint: diary title is tad simplistic)

by Mayor McCheese 2008-06-02 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

You make a good point. It should say he is trying to play you...or something like that.  

by nextgen 2008-06-02 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

Right, the title might sound a little absolute.

The title to be 100% accurate, is Democrats, McCain is trying to play you.

And he is, and he has played this site like a flute.

We are the only major Progressive blog McCain has been sucessful at "playing" not sure if he was sucessful in getting votes, but he was great at playing the whole site.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

You're being played because unless you were already so angry as to be easily manipulated, you wouldn't be worth going after through low-cost, half assed methods.

You're not even a voter that thinks to them - someone that they could convince to switch sides and be a lifelong Republican because of your preferred take on their policies and what they stand for. To them, you're just an angry woman that they can get even angrier, angry enough to vote Republican in the fall.

If you want to fall for that stereotype, and vote for the campaign that thinks that lowly of you, go for it. But you're being played.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
what an insult, upstate girl!!

Shame on you!  What started out as a pretty good diary now devolved into you insulting the intelligence of Clinton supporters.  Do you not think we have a brain and can see this?  

Obama and people like you did create the opening,like it or not, and McCain is going to woo voters.  Just like Obama is going to have to woo working class people if he wants them. And its just politics.  You don't have to assume everyone is going to fall for this.

You accuse people of being angry and ignorant. So why do you care then whether McCain is successful or not with Clinton supporters?   Why did you post this again?  To convince, warn, or insult?

by 4justice 2008-06-02 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: what an insult, upstate girl!!

I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence. But if you think people make rational decisions in the heat of anger, there's a whole psychological standard that says otherwise.

There's a difference between wooing voters and fanning the flames of anger and hostility to take advantage of it.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

With all due respect WTF are you talking about? I've told you I WON'T vote for McCain. I am not threatening to go third party or sit it out either. I'm also male, yet you seem to be ready to brand me with a stereotype you have of what  a Clinton supporter is. Language like the above won't help your cause, which hopefully, will become OUR cause once the primary is over.

by Mayor McCheese 2008-06-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

I didn't call you a woman. The memo did - specifically targeting women over 40. That's how they see you. Not me.

You guys are getting pissed off at me when I'm not making McCain's argument for him - you're pissed at his words, not mine.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

Good lord, can you at least try making sense here? The McCain camp doesn't see me as a woman. I am white male. Yet with your scatter gun approach, you lump ALL Clinton supporters into one category (The angry 40 plus woman) whether they fall into this category or not, accuse us of being "Played" even though you haven't got a scintilla of evidence of this and then say its not you doing this, its the memo, which may or may not even be legit.

by Mayor McCheese 2008-06-02 01:06PM | 0 recs
Read the memo


The specific group we are targeting is a cross-section of white, female voters
over the age of 40. Internal polling reveals that this group is the most likely to
support John McCain after Obama wins the nomination.

Their words - not mine.

You want to get angry about Clinton supporters getting lumped into a category? Call up McCain headquarters.

I've posted this in the thread, and in the diary with the link to the Wikilinks page:

Any questions about this documents veracity are noted. Fewer than 0.1% of documents that pass initial triage fail subsequent analysis (typically third world election material).

That's pretty good odds for it being legit.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Um

I often disagree with you, Mayor, but I'm pretty confused by this one too.  I thought you were just pointing out a small but important fact that the diary title could be more targeted toward Clinton supporters who are considering voting for McCain, but it seemed like upstateg took it to be something else.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-02 01:52PM | 0 recs
Her title only targeted those being played.
Your nit is valid, but still a nit.
Let's move past it.
by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

1. No it didn't just targeted those being played. It's a sweeping dairy title how all Clinton supporters are played by McCain.

2. It's insulting to the very audience you try to reach. It's showing that you don't take them serious. If you want to convince people to not do something saying that their opinion result from being weak willed sheep that can be played is counter productive.

This is counterproductive way to try and persuade people. This dairy is exactly the wrong way to shake people out of supporting McCain. By waving this comment away you show the truth of your tag line all over again. He's trying to tell you that it's a title that makes people less likely to change their minds and you are unable to look at this dairy from the perspective of somebody who would be foolish enough to support McCain so you dismiss him.

by Ernst 2008-06-02 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

Sure, some of those being "played" will reject the notion outright - especially the players themselves. Yet some might keep this memo in mind when they next hear from someone fanning the bitterness divide. I doubt you'll see verbal validation from this segment, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Regardless, I doubt that replacing the title with "Leaked Memo: McCain is playing you, some (though not all) Clinton supporters!" will make a substantive difference to the above ratio. Ergo, the recommendation that we move past it.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

Or how about this title: Leaked Memo: McCain trying to fake concern for disenchanted Clinton supporters?

Don't you think that would actually be a better title? You seem to miss the point that it is perfectly possible to have a title that does not insult and belittle the very people you are trying to reach!

I probably think they will keep this diary in mind when somebody fanning the bitterness divide. They'll remember that some on the Obama side purposely insulted them. How would that help if you just as easily could have avoided that and just got this memo under their attention without the insults and dismissals?

Again, it is just as easyto get this information out without insulting the people you are trying to reach. Why should people listen to a dairist if she's not even polite enough to refrain from namecalling? Why should people listen to you after they object to that you just reply "suck it up". It's a two way street. And momentarily both you and the author are having it both ways. You expect them to take you serious while you don't take them serious.

That won't work.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 12:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

Sorry, Ernst. It's still a nit.

If you found the original title "insulting and belittling", we're probably not going to agree much further. I agree that your suggested title is more nuanced, but there are worthier causes to grandstand over.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-03 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain.

How true that quote, how ironic that you have it as your sig.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

As I noted, we're probably not going to agree much further.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-03 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

Alright. Since you've invoked my sig, I suppose I will make a final attempt at discourse.

I mentioned earlier that there were worthier causes to grandstand over. That doesn't negate your point. I suppose that tiptoing about this site in hushed voices might result in marginally fewer hurt feelings among Clinton supporters. But given the history of bruising take-no-prisoners battles on this site, such an attempt would only be derided as coming too little, too late - as it has repeatedly in the past.

I trust that this is understood. What I suspect you won't understand is our extreme exasperation with the idea that the burden of fostering unity should fall solely on one candidate's supporters alone. Against the backdrop of persistent attack diaries,  thinly veiled threats and mutterings under breath about defecting to the GOP, we are lectured on the other side's newly-found delicate sensitivities to our choice of words.

Your point does not go unappreciated, but we have real enemies to fight. This is your battle as much as it's ours. Join us if you're willing, or when you're able - but the time for words is over.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-03 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

Seriously? I think the complaining Obama supporters here need a big helping of grow the bleep up.

We won, they lost. our job to mend fences. Why? because we won and they didn't. After all they have to start backing our candidate. Had Clinton won, it would have been their job. And Yes, I understand your "extreme exasperation" It's just that it's self centered bullshit. For Clinton supporters Obama supporters were just as bad as Clinton supporters were for Obama supporters. They have as much right for "extreme exasperation" at our side. Somebody needs to build bridges after the bruising take-no-prisoners battles, and you can wait until the losing side starts doing it but that ducking your responsibilities, because the winning side gets the biggest pay off, It's their candidate that gets to be president.

So yes get over your extreme exasperation. You're not "fighting" the "real enemies" your being needlessly antagonistic on a blog to the losing side of the primary.

If you actually had taken the trouble to read my  comments you would know that I'm already a Obama supporter. And one already working for that wants other Obama supporters to stop being a jerks to Clinton supporters because we want theirs votes

You talk about "fighting" the "real enemies"  You know how you "fight" in an election? by persuading people. And how do you do that?

You do that with words.

So I don't think I have to join you when I'm willing or ready. Instead I'm waiting until people like you are willing or ready to get over themselves and join me in the "fight"

After all the time for words has just begun.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

No one's disputing the need to build bridges or mend fences. I do dispute your need to bloviate over a the significance of a title which at worst could be guilty of over-generalization.

Instead of getting further mired in this silly academic debate, I invite you instead to lead by example. Validate those points you make so passionately, starting with this blog, by persuading those yet-hostile diarists to join your cause. Maybe it's coincidental, but I don't recall any significant initiative on your part to engage the other side, other than supercilious finger-wagging with the efforts of others.

If and when you do this, I suspect you'll find that "persuasion" is hardly a novel idea, and that those of us that have abandoned it have done so out of frustration, not ignorance. But do let me know how your much-preached diplomacy of words works out for you.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-04 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

"any significant initiative"?

Nope I'm just polite to them, engage in friendly discussions and make sure the more overenthusiastic Obama supporters don't spoil it for the rest. This is a blog, the dozen commentators here aren't going to make a difference. They're outnumbered by the waivers and the people who just read these diaries without commenting.

Just presenting a rational friendly voice that shares their concerns but is for Obama.

Now, Who do you think will be of more benefit to our candidate? Who's more persuasive to Clinton supporters who haven't yet switched over to the new nominee?

The people who are still fighting a battle they already won or somebody who's moved on?

It's not the title itself, about the general mindset that creates those titles and make people defend them instead. If you're not willing to look at those little things from the perspective of a reader who disagrees with you'll remain a hindrance to the nominee. And yes, if you've won something as large as this and are still frustrated by a few dead enders enough to hold on to a grudge then that might not be ignorance, but it certainly betrays lack of perspective in my honest opinion.

You fault me for not showing significant initiative. And you are right. Personally I believe  in small steps and slow but certain progress. I've neither the desire or the aptitude for any grand gestures you call for. But then again I've never preached about doing anything significant. I guess I'm just an old dirty hippy at hart. All Clinton and Obama supporters agree on the basics but have a lot of ill will between them. So if we just stop creating new ill will the bad feelings between the groups will slowly collapse because it won't have a stable basis anymore.

by Ernst 2008-06-04 02:27PM | 0 recs
There's nothing wrong with dirty old hippies

I marched with a lot of them during the anti-war protests in DC in early '03. While, I might add, a group of young republicans feasted on wine and fine dining from the safety of an upstairs balcony that featured the sign "Hippies Go Home!"

Bring about the change you'd like in your own way, as I will in mine. More power to you.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-10 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Her title only targeted those being played.

And my apologies for the terrible writing. I just hope you understand it.

Dyslectic and in a hurry.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I can't believe this diary made it to the rec list. Honestly, anybody can create a PDF and post it on the Internet.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

McCain would be an idiot not to be doing it, frankly.

Believe what you want to believe, but its been apparent for some time that the Republicans are trying to use disgruntled Hillary supporters as a vehicle to damage our party.

Your vote is your own, as is your voice.  Use them wisely.  But don't think for a second that the Republicans aren't trying to exploit this.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

I think there's a good chance that Democrats and the DNC caused the rift? By the way, I'm no novice. I know exactly what the Republican's are capable of doing. I just can't help but think this so-called leaked memo isn't some not so clever attempt by Democrats to manipulate other Democrats.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

Strike the "?" mark on the first sentence.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 12:50PM | 0 recs
How would that work exactly?
What Dems would do this, and why, and what's the scenario you're envisioning?
by DemsRising 2008-06-02 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

Why are you so ardent in trying to shift culpability away from McCain, and stoking resentment against fellow Democrats? What purpose, and who's ends, does this idle speculation serve?

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
Whether you believe the memo or not

Is it not overwhelming probable that it is happening? Especially considering the troll infestation the site has experience as of late.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

From the Wikileak link (if you'd bother to read it):

Any questions about this documents veracity are noted. Fewer than 0.1% of documents that pass initial triage fail subsequent analysis (typically third world election material).

Feel free to educate yourself before you slam a site's validity.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Upstate girl, I did bother to read it, and I don't appreciate your condescending response.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

If you had, you wouldn't immediately discount it like it was hosted on a Geocities site (or No Quarter, for that matter).

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

You no nothing about what I did or did not do. You make assumptions that correspond with your agenda. Please, stop belittling people. I never said you were the one that created what I think to be a bogus "leaked" memo.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Again, your single-minded fervor in claiming this memo to be bogus is troubling.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

So, you know that fewer than 0.1% of the documents they put up are false, and you STILL "just can't help but think this so-called leaked memo isn't some not so clever attempt by Democrats to manipulate other Democrats"?

The diarist assumed that you hadn't read it, which is probably about the nicest conclusion anyone with the same facts in front of them could have made about you.

For myself, I will assume you are telling the truth, and that you are aware that 0.1% of the documents are found to be false, and that knowing that, you also come to the conclusion that it is a fake somehow, regardless of all evidence to the contrary.

All of which makes me believe you are a fool, but a fool who who did read the page.

by Darknesse 2008-06-02 02:10PM | 0 recs
Doesn't really matter

The fact is that the diary is thematically accurate, even if the content might be bogus.

We all know that there are GOP trolls here looking to divide us.  Many have multiple accounts and will have "pro-Clinton" and "pro-Obama" identities to make us all look bad.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:42PM | 0 recs
McCain is playing you, Clinton supporters

Obama and McCain "operatives" have been active on pro-Hillary sites for months. They are easy to spot. I don't like McCain. I wouldn't vote for him. I don't like Obama, however, and won't vote for him either. I have a choice not to vote for either of them, and will avail myself of it.

by portia9 2008-06-02 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain is playing you, Clinton supporters

I could have sworn you JUST wrote a troll diary.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain is playing you, Clinton supporters

do you really have to stalk and bully in order to get mojo from your buddies??

by jentwisl 2008-06-02 03:08PM | 0 recs
Pro-Hillary Sites

FYI, MyDD existed for a long time before the Obama-Hillary primary. And a lot of people who are now Obama supporters have been posting here since well before this contest began.

by Hatch 2008-06-02 01:06PM | 0 recs
100 year war

Stay at home in November.  The dead in Iraq will thank you.

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

What an insulting post!  Who cares if McCain is courting our votes!  The bottom line is that our vote for McCain is a PROTEST VOTE against the slash and burn politics of Obama and his Obamatans.  

Face it, Obama's attempt to destroy the Clintons and to belittle Clinton supporters is what has divided the Dem party.  This post exemplifies the  irresponsible and arrogant attitude you Obamatans thrive on!  

To warn us against McCain officially marks the stupid season of this primary.      

by trixta 2008-06-02 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Trixta  the only voulenteer on the McBloggers team.

People, dont ignore this troll,  she gets so little attention I am afraid she might do something dangerous, like make a screenname that isn't so silly.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Also, if you ever felt like reading up on a troll, click on Trixta, and look at her first week of comments.

They were so cute, I wonder if maybe Trixta is some troll's poor young kid who is being forced to troll for their loser parent?

Honestly, if you look at the comments thats what it looks like

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

trixta
First comment posted 5.24.08

Makes you wonder, huh?

by venician 2008-06-02 01:36PM | 0 recs
judges, women's issues

What's irresponsible to is be female and to vote for someone who may well appoint judges to overturn roe v wade.

by reenactor 2008-06-02 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

What an insulting post!  Who cares if McCain is courting our votes!  The bottom line is that our vote for McCain is a PROTEST VOTE against the slash and burn politics of Obama and his Obamatans.  

Face it, Obama's attempt to destroy the Clintons and to belittle Clinton supporters is what has divided the Dem party.  This post exemplifies the  irresponsible and arrogant attitude you Obamatans thrive on!  

To "warn" us against McCain officially marks the stupid season of this primary.      

by trixta 2008-06-02 12:39PM | 0 recs
Protest votes

I don't think there's ever been a time where protest voting had the effect that was intended.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Protest votes

Dracomicron, PLEASE don't feed the trolls, click trixta's name and look at all comments.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 12:43PM | 0 recs
Eh.

I'm not going to get into protracted debate over it.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:48PM | 0 recs
I see you've read the memo.

Congratulations.  Go apply for your McCain Green Stamps.

by Adam B 2008-06-02 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su
RedState is the place for you,
All your friends so true and true,
Now it's time to move along,
Or I'll be forced to repeat this song....
by lollydee 2008-06-02 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Cut'n'paste garbage spamming - time for hide rating.

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 01:20PM | 0 recs
Ok this is fake

And fake of the obvious kind. I for one find it insulting.
by TaiChiMaster 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok this is fake

How do you know?  Seriously.

by Lawyerish 2008-06-02 01:03PM | 0 recs
Uncanny

From irish09's rec list diary:

"Chicago machine politics, Farakhan, Ayers, Wright, and that church of his which is so against what I as a Catholic believe in."

That was the lady that called and eventually disparaged Obama's race.

So the question is, is McCain riffing off of this stuff because they're already doing it, or was that a viral campaigner, too?  (I actually doubt the latter, because she was more ridiculous than anything else).

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
you wrong: we are taking advantage of McCain

by engels 2008-06-02 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: you wrong: we are

Oh, yeah, that'll work, Faust.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-02 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: you wrong: we are taking advantage of McCain

WTF are you talking about?

by haystax calhoun 2008-06-02 12:48PM | 0 recs
Shocking.

Wow and I thought the reason I didn't like Obama was my own judgement. Now I realize McCain has infected my mind with campaign talking points.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Shocking.

Do you deny the strong possibility his people are trying to?

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-02 12:44PM | 0 recs
Hillary's supporters BEGGED them to

Did you watch any CNN on Saturday?

by catfish2 2008-06-02 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's supporters BEGGED them to

Did you see the date on this memo was May 15th? How do you know how many of those protesters weren't there because of this memo?

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Because I began noticing the sexism

in January. Obama was originally my first choice. And I have a brain, I know what campaign manipulation is and I know what my own opinions are.

Hillary just is the better candidate and will make the better candidate. As a side bonus, the sexism in Obama's campaign and among his supporters blew chow.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Because I began noticing the sexism

Then vote for McCain knowing full well that he'd sooner win your vote as a cynical firewall than as a support for his policies or those of the Republican Party. His game plan isn't to convince you he's right, its to keep convincing you Obama's wrong all the way to the voting booth. If that's the choice you want to make, your call.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:01PM | 0 recs
Save your breath

that you posted this diary as some sort of surprising revelation reveals your less than full deck of cards.

I convinced myself Obama is wrong. I've been through a few elections and have watched McCain for more years than Obama has even been on the scene.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Save your breath

If this wasn't a huge revelation to you, great. Some people don't like being manipulated for political gain by the Republican party.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Save your breath

I would rather be manipulated by the Republicans than my own party.  Just sayin'

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Save your breath

Hmmm...I guess that makese sense. After all, this is America. You get to chose who manipulates you. Enjoy it. Might be one of the last choices you get under President McCain.

by Rationalisto 2008-06-02 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Shocking.

It seems you have been infected for some time.

by venician 2008-06-02 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Shocking.

Bottom feeder

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

There is a greater chance of the Michelle Obama tape being real than this memo.

I also don't understand the argument here.  Is the diarist under the impression that people who support McCain over Obama - something, by the way, I strongly discourage - are unaware that they are helping McCain get elected?

by Steve M 2008-06-02 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Indeed.  I call bullshit.  

by TL 2008-06-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Not at all. But for people that are so concerned about not casting their vote for someone that doesn't respect them, the McCain campaign certainly treats them with a pathetic lack of it. If they're still ready to vote for McCain knowing how they're viewed by him, go for it.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I am not sure I perceive the same deep disrespect that you do.  Giving the memo the benefit of the doubt for the moment, I'm quite certain that every campaign targets specific demographics with techniques that are disturbingly cynical, when you dig down to the campaign strategist level.

It seems to me that McCain's attempts to win over disaffected Clinton supporters have been rather open and obvious, and that he's likely to win a lot more votes with those moves than he would be by organizing fake Clinton meet-ups.  That said, I really think this memo is obvious BS.

by Steve M 2008-06-02 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I personally think the chances are better than not, mainly because Wikilinks takes a lot of pains to try and verify information that gets posted. I did a quick search and didn't find more than a tiny handful of results for more memos of this type. The Wikipage itself says that

Any questions about this documents veracity are noted. Fewer than 0.1% of documents that pass initial triage fail subsequent analysis (typically third world election material).

As far as sources go, they're one of the few dedicated to protection of the contributors and they've already been censored by the Chinese government. They're a worldwide site, not just a US political hanger-on rumor mill.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

But have they completed "initial triage"?  All the comments seem to suggest that they have reached no conclusion regarding the authenticity of the document.  I certainly don't think they are saying it is 99.9% likely to be genuine.

by Steve M 2008-06-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

How do you measure the authenticity of any document?

Wikileaks does not pass judgement on the authenticity of documents. That's up to the readers, editors and communities to do.

Wikilinks has only made the determination that its not an out and out fake, a la propaganda from third world elections (as far as I can tell), and they list the arguments for its validity and the arguments against. Reading through them, I'm more inclined than not to believe its authenticity.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su


Is the diarist under the impression that people who support McCain over Obama - something, by the way, I strongly discourage - are unaware that they are helping McCain get elected?

That is not what the diarist says at all - and I don't see how on earth you could have concluded that she did.

She implied that some of those fanning the flames of resentment and bitterness among Clinton supporters are McCain operatives. Not something we haven't been aware of, but publicizing the memo couldn't hurt.

Now, about your other claim - why do you find it so hard to believe that such a memo could be authentic? Would that be:
(1) Because there's no way the GOP would have thought that fostering bitterness among Democrats could help their cause?
(2) Because GOP campaigns are traditionally known for their high ethical and moral standards?
(3) Because running a tight ship is a GOP hallmark - they couldn't possibly be inept enough to have a memo leak?

by Sumo Vita 2008-06-02 01:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I didn't say I find it hard to believe that "such a memo" could be authentic.  I said this memo strikes me as an obvious fake.  Some of the premises - that McCain wants to reach out to disaffected Clinton supporters, especially women; that McCain wants to highlight the real or perceived injustices committed against Clinton in the course of so doing; and so forth - strike me as virtual truisms.

As I look around the blogs, I certainly don't see much reason to believe that the minority of Clinton dead-enders are actually McCain trolls in disguise.  Indeed, the behavior of Obama supporters is responsible for inflaming about 90% of the negative emotion among Clinton supporters at this point, I'd estimate.  While I'd love to believe that these Obama supporters are really just GOP sockpuppets looking to stir up trouble, the evidence sadly seems to be to the contrary.

by Steve M 2008-06-02 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you

Another poster above pointed this out up top, which I thought was rather odd phrasing:

At the moment, this is nothing more than a headache for the
Obama campaign. With a greater commitment on your part, I hope to see it
metastasize
into something much more.

by skohayes 2008-06-02 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Your repartee is cute but not particularly valuable.

I think the goal of this diary was to disseminate the innerworkings of McCains propaganda campaign.  Because once you frame it that way it certainly loses it's power.  

Unless of course your under the impression that propaganda is good so long as it's a rational technique.  Nevermind that it tends to stifle democracy and manipulate people with genuine concerns about their lives.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I suspect that's the goal of whoever fabricated the memo, yes.  I think it is very unlikely to be real.

by Steve M 2008-06-02 02:29PM | 0 recs
Unless McCain is an idiot

his campaign should do exactly this. Obama and the MSNBC and the DNC leaders and the Obama blogs left McCain a gigantic opening.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Unless McCain is an idiot

Uprated for TR abuse.  

by Montague 2008-06-03 05:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you

Why would anyone be suprised that the Republicans are going to expose a weakness that has gotten 24/7 news coverage for the last few weeks?  Duh, of course they are going to do that.  My prediction is the McCain lovin' media will play along and start pushing the meme that Clinton supporters should be angry.  If not now then after the convention for sure.

Then I guess we will know that both sides are being played.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo

Whether they choose to acknowledge this or not, if a Hillary Clinton supporter votes for McCain all they'll be doing is helping to empower the people who tried to impeach Bill Clinton (and pushed Whitewater, Paula Jones, the Lewinsky business, yadda yadda, we know the litany).

It would be nice if the Republican party had simply imploded in 2000, some new party had been created in its stead, and those who wished to cast a protest vote could back them.  

But here's the reality: you can't.  And yes, I understand, there are Clinton supporters who just don't want to hear this.  "Don't talk to me!  I'm not listening!  Lalalala...can you see?  I'm covering my ears!"

Won't change a thing.

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-06-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
I don't see this as being very newsworthy really

Wright, inexperience, and links to Chicago's political machine have been discussed in the MSM for months now. The logical conclusion is that  Republicans would amplify those themes once the GE campaign cycle started.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't see this as being very newsworthy real

Thanks for your Concern

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

McCain knows about the Internet?

by jdusek 2008-06-02 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

He certainly knew Al when he invented it.  Surely he told him about it.

:)

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-02 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

I'll be on the lookout for suspicious postings coming from CompuServe addresses.

by jdusek 2008-06-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
Even Wikileaks can't authenticate the PDF
As I've already said, I believe this "leaked" memo to be fabricated. From Wikileaks own page:

Wikileaks currently can not take a clear position on the document either way.

If it were a scanned copy of the "leaked" memo, I'd be more likely to believe it's authenticity.

by zenful6219 2008-06-02 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Even Wikileaks can't authenticate the PDF

So what?

Even if it is, the strategy is an obvious one that McCain is pursuing unless he is an idiot.

A brief reading of Hillaryis44, Noquarter, and taylormarsh turns up many, too "innocently", trying to turn people to McCain to not be professional, imo.

by wrb 2008-06-02 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Even Wikileaks can't authenticate the PDF

Isnt Larry Johnson from noquarter a bush voting republican.   Some dude named alex rodriquez is behind hillaryis44 yet nobody really knows anything about him.    Taylor Marsh, ex-porn site editor, nuff said about those sites.

by realistdem 2008-06-02 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Even Wikileaks can't authenticate the PDF

It seems quite plausible to me that those sites are Republican creations.

Preying on the weak-minded.

by wrb 2008-06-02 02:38PM | 0 recs
The good father Phelger reminded us of...

the contempt the Obama supporters have for us.  Now they want to kiss and make up. I will never vote for either McCain nor Obama.

by handsomegent 2008-06-02 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The good father Phelger reminded us of...

More people will die in Iraq under McCain.  Does that mean anything to you?  

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo

Even if the memo isn't real.. of course they are already doing this and will continue to do it until November.  The Republicans may be completely without ethics but they aren't stupid.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 01:20PM | 0 recs
Fake or not...

Politico's Ben Smith hears a pitch to disgruntled Clinton supporters in McCain's speech today:

Going for the Clinton vote

McCain, in Nashville, starts to make a pitch:

"She has inspired generations of American women to believe that they can reach the highest office in this nation," he says.

by jdusek 2008-06-02 01:24PM | 0 recs
If I Were McCain

I'd follow the memo and pick Kay Baily Hutchinson or Condoleeza Rice as my running mate.

If I were Obama, I'd do some manipulating of my own to gain the votes of white females over 40, too. He'll gain a lot of those votes back by politely asking for their votes.

There is nothing wrong with "Manipulation" to get people to change their voting behavior. In fact, Obama should ask those Republicans who supported Huckabee, Romney, Paul etc.... to vote for him.

by Zzyzzy 2008-06-02 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: If I Were McCain

Oh cripes if you think Kay or Condi would actually help him you are nuts.  

If he picked a Dem woman running mate.. that would be a different story.  I think he is going to pick Romney or Crist.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 01:29PM | 0 recs
Crist??? Christ! !~)

I have only been in Florida 8-9 months, but I hate Crist already.

He is, apparently, pretty popular, but the guy oogs me out.  And I am a right-center Indie...

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-02 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Crist??? Christ! !~)

He will pick Crist if they determine he needs Florida.  I heard there are gay rumors about Crist though so that may make him out of the question for the Republicans.  

They have been pretty tight lipped about who they are considering.  I bet Lieberfairy would love to get the nod.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 02:14PM | 0 recs
A gay VP might be exactly what the GOP

does need.

Though I expect that they are so far into their own self-immolating angst that they will not see that.

Or, I could be wrong.  But that is so rare it is hardly worth considering... ;-)

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-02 02:46PM | 0 recs
I Guess I'm Nuts

Carly Fiorina, former President of Hewlet-Packard is near the top of McCain's VP list, too.

By picking a woman as VP, McCain can exploit the disappointment many woman have over Clinton's failed run at the nomination. A recent poll showed that Rice would help McCain by a tremendous amount. So much so, that McCain would win New York in the general election!

A historical study showed that Republican women run strong in general elections when looking at statewide and local races. The problem is (for Republicans), they don't nominate women very much.

If Obama chooses a male running mate, McCain's strongest VP choice would be a woman.

by Zzyzzy 2008-06-02 02:54PM | 0 recs
I could never vote for a Republican-Ewww

but I can't vote for Obama either. You couldn't pay me to vote for him after the bully tactics used on so many people. Republican bully tactics don't work for Democrats either.

My only choices are Hillary or Ralph Nader.

by roseeriter 2008-06-02 01:31PM | 0 recs
Your vote is yours, but I hope you

change your views.

From the Other Side of the Divide, I could say the exact same thing you just said - in reverse.

If you are sincere - and I think you are - then it is just further evidence that your and my perspectives on the topic are just that: matters of perspective.

I do not share the blanket disgust with Republicans that most of you (and my PrObama cohort) do.  But I do feel very very very strongly that it is past time to move to a Dem White House, so however you cast your vote, I ask that you calmly consider the four-year ramifications.  My kids will be 17, 12 and 10 by the next election, and I don't want them getting there by way of Bush III.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-02 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I could never vote for a Republican-Ewww

You will be voting for an anti-choice Court and more death in the Middle East. Hopefully,   you'll follow Hillary's lead and realize that lives are at stake.

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:38PM | 0 recs
Real or not, that is definitively an approach

that will be/is being used.  The validity of this particular memo makes no difference whatsoever.

I am not trying to win cookies for my professional background, but information security and all it implies are my area of expertise (google me).

This sort of disinformation campaign is absolutely what I would expect.  Whether it comes from the top or is spontaneously created from the bottom, it would be the extremes of naivety to assume that it wouldn't happen.

Yesterday there was another "SECURITY ALERT" email on one of the MyBO lists I subscribe to.  As always, I responded with an "of course there are" and a "do not worry about it" email.

Heck, here it is for your use:

Hi folks!

DON'T be careful.

DO be careful to say what you mean, and to say it in a way that reflects well on you and on Senator Obama.

DON'T be careful by supressing your thoughts or your voices.

There are "Lurkers" amongst us, of course.  I am a Lurker on many public forums where opposition supporters discuss their thoughts.  Most lists - this one included - are wide open to the public and are completely valid places for those who disagree with us to come and see what we think.

Lurking is imho a valid form of gathering publicly available information.  "Trolling" is something else entirely.  I never Troll opposition groups and I suggest that doing so reflects badly on our Candidate.

Trolls (aka "Concern Trolls") are not content to learn what we are thinking, they are intent on changing the way we act.  In my professional opinion, the most effective thing Trolls can do is to get us to post comments like this one I am replying to.  

I do not think that (the oringal poster) is a Troll, but I think he has like many let the Trolls spook him.

So, please do NOT be so careful that you change any valid activity you would otherwise be involved in.  

We'll just be out and stealing their cattle and taking their land while the bad guys waste their time Trolling us.

-cheers!

-chris

I do not recommend responding in kind.  Trolling is as much a slap in the face to democracy as Operation Chaos and simply shows others that you are happy to sink to their level.  It is not worth winning if that is necessary, and I do not think it is necessary.

-best

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-02 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo

I don't know if this memo is fabricated (and, frankly, don't think it's a big issue either way).  Anyone who has spent any amount of time with the current crop of head-to-head polls knows that the GOP's only chance to win the White House this November will be if there is a split in the Democratic party (and the candidate only pulls in 80% of Dems or fewer).

All of the other numbers for the Dems are looking great (party id, how indies split, etc.).  If the Dems unite the party (ie. get 90%+) we'll win in a blowout (ie. 350 EC votes or more).

So what can one say?  If some of Clinton's supporters want to toss away this sort of victory we can't stop you.  Spare us the argument that Obama is worse than McCain, though.  And you're kidding yourself if you think Clinton could come back in 2012 after this sort of loss.

They'd both get sucked into the whirlpool.  Clinton would start off with the same people loving and hating her, but Dems who are in the middle wouldn't risk going through this internecine conflict again.  The candidate who could say "I wasn't involved in any of this" would win the nomination.

Who thinks the Dems would risk the second loss which could come from some of Obama's supporters, in 2012, basically doing the same thing some of Clinton's supporters are talking about now?  Would never happen.

 

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-06-02 01:33PM | 0 recs
Authentic? Who Cares?

No one can deny that it's a meme that's out there.

And as for McCain actually courting the vote of disgruntled Clinton partisans.... well, all he really has to do is sufficiently depress the vote for Obama for a win, not actually have them cast a vote for him.

by bjones 2008-06-02 01:37PM | 0 recs
I don't get it

What's the smoking gun here?  that the McCain team admits targeting Clinton supporters?  Is this a surprise?

by DaveOinSF 2008-06-02 01:37PM | 0 recs
McCain is playing you, Clinton supporters

Politico actually has him saying it at an event("She has inspired generations of American women to believe that they can reach the highest office in this nation," he says.).  It's smart politics, especially at this point.  There are many angry and disillusioned Clinton supporters, if he can get them now, while they're still hot under the collar, then has a chance of wooing them over permanently and carrying their support all the way through the general.

by venavena 2008-06-02 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

BHO supporters should start wondering why this demographic is even susceptible as a McCain target. And no, the answer isn't these people are dupes. Thinking that is the reason is probably the first problem the Obama camp needs to get over.

by swissffun 2008-06-02 01:46PM | 0 recs
They aren't dupes.

They genuinely think Hillary got jobbed out of the nomination by a black guy.

And they genuinely thnk Barack Obama showed Hillary more disrespect than her husband did when he cheated on er with an intern in the Oval office.

In fact, bringing up this very hypocrisy gets you attacked as a sexist and a thug.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-02 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: They aren't dupes.

it's trolly bringing up her personal life, period. i don't know of anyone comparing the two examples of disrespect. and what's with the 'black man' comment?  stop projecting racism on this swathe of voters. maybe the gist is it isn't right to be jilted of the nomination by heavy-handed tactics from caucuses to the RBC or lose to a far less qualified and ready candidate? revealing that you've distilled every reason for being against Obama to his being a black man. just plain trolly.

by swissffun 2008-06-03 12:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I think the answer is that many are emotional dupes. It's the same reason people have voted against their interests and for Republicans for 40 years.

Think. Be a little dispassionate. Act like a grown up.

And if you think voting for McCain is going to hurt someone like me, think again. I have a strong sense of social justice and am a true lefty. But I'm also a well-to-do urban white guy. Republican policies really aren't going to hurt me personally. Sad, but true.

So vote McCain. Screw those Obamabots. Send them to hell. Just don't be surprised if you get a little hot, too.

by Rationalisto 2008-06-02 05:18PM | 0 recs
There's nothing McCain could do to

alienate older white women from Obama, that Obama and the MSM haven't already done themselves, and 10 times better.

by miker2008 2008-06-02 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: There's nothing McCain could do to

Ah ha!!

Someone who got the memo!

by wrb 2008-06-02 01:58PM | 0 recs
Yes. That's true.

Obama offended them  by runnng against Hillary and beating her fair and square.

Nothing enrages her wacko supporters more than that.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-02 02:05PM | 0 recs
the tell

Simultaneously, our team has been testing new lines of attack through independent pro-Clinton communities on the Internet.

This is like The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Who among us is testing lines of attack for Dishonest John?

Who could it be now?

by obsessed 2008-06-02 01:55PM | 0 recs
Ergo Michele Obama's "Whitey" video

...being peddled by Larry Johnson.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-02 02:03PM | 0 recs
McCain, Obama and you are all playing us

The problem is that many Clinton supporters know that Obama race-bated in this primary so it will be extremely difficult to bring the party together.

Every preacher at his church uses overtly race-bating language. Leaving was a good move.

It is very simple: It's Obama/Clinton or its a 3rd Bush term. Nothing short of that will unite the party.

Sending Bill Clinton around (as reported in the press) to rustle up working-class white votes will not work if Clinton is not on the ticket.

by mmorang 2008-06-02 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Right.

And the Clinton campaign neither race-baited nor gender-baited.

Another of McCain's memo readers

by wrb 2008-06-02 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

It doesn't matter anymore if Clinton did or not.  If Obama is the nominee he is the one who has to reach out.  See this is where I think the Obama supporters are going to fail.. they are going to let their dislike of Clinton override their desire to win in November.  The whole "she did it too!" argument sounds like something a 5 year old would say.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I just love to see how out of control the Obama supporters are on this thread.

They really think that they can insult Hillary supporters into voting for their guy. And if one insult doesn't work, then they need to ratchet it up to even more offensive insults.

I guess the beatings won't stop until morale improves.

I suggest that the diarist not try to insult Hillary supporters by telling them they are getting "played" if they refuse to vote for Obama. The real problem, which Obama supporters don't seem to get, is that the view that Hillary supporters have toward Obama has nothing to do with anything McCain or his campaign has ever said, or likely ever will say. It has to do with what Obama and his campaign have said and done.

Can you muster up even the slightest amount of honesty among yourselves to acknowledge that point?

Yes, Obama has something to worry about here. But don't blame the problem on McCain. The fault lies in yourselves.

by frankly0 2008-06-02 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Let's set aside for the moment whether this memo is real or not.  Personally, I doubt it, but it's clear that strategies similar to this ARE being used and will continue to be used.  McCain supporters and right-wing pundits in general are going to cynically exploit anger by Clinton supporters in order to tear down Obama.  This is obvious, and we don't need a questionable memo to know it.

I suggest that the diarist not try to insult Hillary supporters by telling them they are getting "played" if they refuse to vote for Obama.

I mostly agree.  In and of itself, not voting for Obama doesn't mean you're being "played".  If you allow Fox news commentators or McCain supporters or some other right-wing source to push you over the edge from supporting Obama to not supporting him, then yes, I suppose you're being "played".  That's a crude and insulting way to put it, but reasonably apt.  If you have a problem with that characterization in that narrow set of circumstances, then I'm sorry to insult you, but that's how I see it.

I don't think "played" applies outside that circumstance, though.  So, if you hate Obama's campagn enough already such that you absolutely refuse to vote hor him, then you're not being "played".

The real problem, which Obama supporters don't seem to get, is that the view that Hillary supporters have toward Obama has nothing to do with anything McCain or his campaign has ever said, or likely ever will say. It has to do with what Obama and his campaign have said and done.

I sincerely doubt I'm going to convince you in this post, but very briefly: the vast majority of the anger Hillary supporters feel, in my experience, has to do with things that were said about the Clintons that Obama and his campaign had little to no direct control over.  Many Hillary supporters, consciously or not, conflate Obama with the sins of independent politicians who support Obama, or with memebers of the media who have attacked Hillary.

Nobody in Obama's campaign, or whom Obama has any sort of message control over, ever called the Clintons racist.  Nobody in the Obama campaign ever accused the Clintons of agreeing with Ferarro's comments.  Nobody in the Obama campaign made hay about the Bosnia story.  Nobody in the Obama campaign expressed outrage over the RFK comments.

If you think I am wrong, then please, give a conflicting citation.  I'd like to see a quote from a reputable source that has Obama himself criticizing Hillary about these things, or a press release from the campaign doing the same.  I'll even take a quote from Axelrod or Plouffe.  You can pick one of the other gaffes/scandals/negative stories if you like.

I don't claim the Obama campaign is perfectly clean, not by any stretch.  But the Clinton supporter claim seems to be that they are unusually dirty.  I find this to be profoundly false.

by doktarr 2008-06-02 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

I sincerely doubt I'm going to convince you in this post, but very briefly: the vast majority of the anger Hillary supporters feel, in my experience, has to do with things that were said about the Clintons that Obama and his campaign had little to no direct control over.  Many Hillary supporters, consciously or not, conflate Obama with the sins of independent politicians who support Obama, or with memebers of the media who have attacked Hillary.

Don't forget the supporters who post on blogs, or have blogs of their own, many of them aren't doing Obama any favors.

Nobody in Obama's campaign, or whom Obama has any sort of message control over, ever called the Clintons racist

Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign has prepared a detailed memo listing various instances in which it perceived Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign to have deliberately played the race card in the Democratic primary.

The memo, which was obtained by the Huffington Post and has been made public elsewhere, is believed to have been given to an activist and contains mostly excerpts from different media reports. It lists the contact info and name of Obama's South Carolina press secretary, Amaya Smith, and is broken down into five incidents in which either Clinton, her husband Bill, or campaign surrogates made comments that could be interpreted as racially insensitive.

The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.

HuffPo

Nobody in the Obama campaign made hay about the Bosnia story.

A key military surrogate for Barack Obama went after Hillary Clinton on the Bosnia story today -- triggering an accusation of hypocrisy from the Hillary camp in light of Obama's own words about the controversy during this week's debate, when he said people should let the story go.

"One of the inherent duties of the president of the United States is to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on Memorial Day," said Gen. Walter Stewart on an Obama campaign conference call this afternoon -- then proceeding to lambast Hillary over the Bosnia gaffes. "Imagine the lack of moral authority she has now to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on Memorial Day."

TPM Election Central

Nobody in the Obama campaign expressed outrage over the RFK comments.

They sent a comment out to reporters, accompanied by an online article that a NY Post writer had put up, after listening to Clinton's comments on a video link.

On "Face the Nation," Wolfson castigated the Obama campaign for the language in its rapid e-mail response, which said her comments were "unfortunate" and "had no place in this campaign." The e-mail was sent soon after a New York Post reporter (who was listening to the editorial board meeting via an online video link) posted a short-lived article on the paper's website that called her remarks "an odd comparison between the dead candidate and Barack Obama."

"The Obama campaign did put out a statement almost immediately condemning the remarks," Wolfson told host Bob Schieffer. "There's no question that it was unfortunate and unnecessary, and in my opinion inflammatory, for the Obama campaign to attack Sen. Clinton on Friday for these remarks, without obviously knowing the full facts or context."

LA Times

Is that good enough or do you need more?

by skohayes 2008-06-02 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

0/3.  If you have better examples, I'd like to see them.

--

On the first point, accusing a campaign of "playing the race card" does not equal accusing them of racism.  Not even close.  Show me a press release or a senior staffer quote where they actually say that the Clintons are racist or racially biased.  You can't, because they never did.

The second example you cite is a great case of what I am talking about - conflating the campaign with outside sources.  That was a statement from a supporter, not from the campaign.  Again, I asked for a press release or a statement from a senior staffer or Barack, precisely because I am trying to avoid this sort of guilt-by-association attack.

The campaign IMMEDIATELY expressed distanced themselves from the remarks, saying they "obviously" disagreed.  "Obviously", because Obama had already explicitly defended Hillary in the debate on this issue.

The third example you cite was not in any sense "expressing outrage", which was what I said.  It was, by the standards of what was already being put out by the NYP and by Druge, an extremely mild rebuke of the comments.  Shortly after Hillary clarified herself, Obama himself made a statement saying he accepted her explanation and took no offense.

Also, I don't read that as saying they sent out the NYP article.  I think they were asked for comment and gave it.

---

Again, the Obama campaign is not perfect and not unerringly on message.  But this idea that they were unusually negative is total bunk.  They have shied away from nearly all negative character attacks.

by doktarr 2008-06-03 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

So I guess your solution to the problem is to vote for the guy that wants to overturn R v W , then right?

Gloria - You do know that Obama actually had the votes to split the Michigan delgates 50-50, but instead decided to go for the split in her favor as a show of unity, right?

And I'm sorry , I have to call B.S. on this staement:

"But if I'm expected to fall in line and vote for a nominee who is inexperienced, overly arrogant, and seems to have no respect or places little value on older voters, women, and working folks, then Gore and the Senate crowd for whom he's fundraising won't be getting anything from me"

What the hell?
If you switch out "Black" for "Women" and "young" for "older", the exact can be said for Hillary. I thought we were all past this. Obama never compared himself favorable to McCain at Hillary's expense. And arrogance is Why she didn't plan to campaing past Super Tuesday and ran out of money.It was Hillary who had no respect for little places, because if she did, she would have campaigned in the SMALLER CAUCUS states and probably have beat Obama.  But no she put all her money into the big states OH, TX and PA. Who carea about the little places then?

I know most Hillary supporters don't think like you, but you need to give it a rest.

You don't have to love Obama to vote for him. But you should want to vote for your own self-interests and not for the guy that wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/ 2007-02-19-mccain-roe_x.htm

Hell, I'm pro-life (mostly) and I'm not voting for McCain; WHY SHOULD YOU?

by xodus1914 2008-06-03 01:00PM | 0 recs
Having read the comments

it appears that McCain can save his trolling on this site.  There are enough posters here who are doing his work for him already.

Thanks for the diary -- I had heard about this tactic from another source.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-02 02:25PM | 0 recs
yeah, Girl, whatever

A month or so ago, according to many Obama supporters, Rush Limbaugh was "playing" us, now, according to you, McCain is. You just don't get it. We don't care what Rush says or wants, we don't care what McCain says or wants, and, more to the point here, we don't care what you, or any other Obama supporter, says or wants.

We are for Hillary. Period.

After tomorrow, Barky will NOT have enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. That means it is up to the superdelegates. And, since the superdelegates are not bound by anything until they actually vote in Denver, nothing you, McCain, or anyone else, says means jack shit. I hope to Christ (and I'm an atheist) that Hillary does NOT concede.

I hope you, and every other Obama supoorter, has to sweat it out all summer, Girl. Meanwhile, Hillary can continue to lobby the superdelegates to do the right thing and reject Mr. No Qualifications, who, despite his oft- and self-touted superior "judgment," has managed to surround himself with racist assholes as his "spiritual advisors," thereby disqualifying himself in the general election.

by freemansfarm 2008-06-02 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: yeah, Girl, whatever

Yet another, following the memo's script

by wrb 2008-06-02 02:42PM | 0 recs
what you can do with your "memo"

Classic Obama supporter reasoning--if you agree with me, great. If you don't, that just proves I'm right anyway. Why bother to post on a discussion board if that's the why you look at things. See things my way, awesome, I win. Disagree? Well that means I win too. Hence the sarcastic use of the word "whatever."

Let's try again, shall we? I am not following anyone's "script." Not Rush's, not McCain's, not anyone's.

I am for Hillary. I have been for her all along. I will continue to be for her unless and until the Convention nominates someone else.

You, Upstate Girl, Axelrod, and Prince Barrack himself can like it, or lump it. But I will not be told that I am anyone's tool, or that anyone is "playing" me. My choice is genuine, heartfelt, and non-negotiable.

Too bad for you if you can't fathom that.

by freemansfarm 2008-06-02 02:53PM | 0 recs
Serious Question

Being completely honest

Are you more: pro-Hillary or anti-Obama?

Are you more: pro-America or pro-Hillary?

Are you more: pro-America or anti-Obama?

But I will not be told that I am anyone's tool, or that anyone is "playing" me.

It is not a personal jab at you personally. Truth be told both sides are probably being played. You blame Obama for the divisivness. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I (try) to be objective. Quite frankly I think it's the othe way around.

But you know what? That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is we are dividided. And undoubtedly the GOP is using that. I don't need a memo, real or otherwise, to tell me they're posting on sites like MYDD and Dailykos. I've known that long before this diary existed.

A while back I pledged to stay home if Hillary wins. My mother talked me out of it, and her and I are admittedly "anti-Hillary".

But regardless of my personal feelings I cannot deny that this country would be better off under her OR Obama than McCain. And I need to suck up my personal resentment for the good of the country. As every nerdy Treky might say, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 03:23PM | 0 recs
Q and A

You've kind of confused me with your troll rating and mojo's, buy I will try to answer your questions. . .

I am more pro-Hillary than anti-Obama. I was pro-Hillary before I even knew who Barrack Obama was. I have wanted her to be president since her husband held the job. I was a volunteer for Bill, I love the Clintons, and, as a New Yorker, I am proud to have them residents of my State, to have Bill have his offices in my City, and to have Hillary as one of my US Senators.

While I am not a big fan of nationalism, I, of course, am more pro-USA than pro-Hillary. The USA is the country I was born and raised in, and will live in the rest of my life. I have only left the country a couple of times as a tourist, and have no desire to do so again. I love my City, State, and Country more than just about anyone or anything else (except for maybe my family and SO) in the world.

So, it follows that I am more pro-USA than anti-
Obama too.

I totally agree that our country will be better served by either Democrat than McCain as President. And, if you check my posting history, you will see that I have stated several times that I will vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. I stand by that.

On the other hand, I repeat that I am not anyone's tool and that no one is "playing" me. I don't care if the "memo" is genuine or not. I don't care if McCain wants the Democratic nomination fight to go on or not. I am firmly commited to Hillary, and will continue to be so unless and until someone else gets the nomination or she officially drops out.

As far as I'm concerned, the division in the Democratic party is entirely Obama's fault. Since, as he himself has admitted, his positions are not that different than Hillary's, I can see no possible reason other than his monumental ego and overreaching ambition for him to run at all. The world was not crying out for an Obama presidency, despite all of the nonsense written about the "movement" for him. There were no marches in the streets or mass meeetings demanding his candidacy on the college campuses, in Chicago, in the African-American community or anywhere else. Obama decided to run for President this cycle, in my opinion, because nothing can come fast enough for him, and he cannnot stand to be anything but Top Dog, and to be that Right Now. He is, again, in my opinion, the Verulka Salt candidate.

On top of this, he has run a race-baiting, misogynist, vote-suppressing campaign, and has recycled every unfair Republican attack point against Hillary and Bill Clinton. I despise him for all of this.

I understand that you disagree, and that's fine. And I repeat that, despite all I have said, I still will vote for Obama over McCain if it comes to that.

by freemansfarm 2008-06-02 04:00PM | 0 recs
I don't think it's Obama per say who initiated the

race baiting. To my eyes, his campaign seems more as a "getting even with the Clintons", inspired by Axelrod who worked for the Clintons and obviously there are sour grapes from his time in the Clinton White House because it's just too personal. Going after the Clintons on race, which has absolutely no justification was beyond repugnant. This campaign was played just too mean and Obama is too much of a neophyte to have accumulated such strong feelings and disdain for the Clintons. He was used by Axelrod and by encouraging it, he will lose.

by suzieg 2008-06-02 10:29PM | 0 recs
And thanks for. . .

. . .the totally unwarranted "zero" rating, Mr US Army Paratrooper. Again, typical Obama-supporter behavior: toe the "Obama is God" line or else you will be troll-rated. You, sir, are a totalitarian and a thug. You don't belong on this website. I do not hand out zero, or even "1" ratings, so I won't retaliate against you. But, I will say this: go fuck yourself, asshole.

by freemansfarm 2008-06-02 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: And thanks for. . .(point taken)

I zero rated it because of the profane rant at the end. But it wasn't directed at another poster, so I agree I should remove it.

Since you can't simply remove a rating (only change it) I gave you mojo.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: being played

Is there any reason at all to believe this document is authentic?

Perhaps I should type something up in word, PDF it, post it as a "leaked" memo from the Obama campaign, and see if I can get on the rec list also..

by bobbank 2008-06-02 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Not sure how my serious concerns re: Obama's character & qualifications = support of McCain. As I've said before hopefully the weight of the Supreme Court will get me to choke on it & vote for him in November, but he is honestly not a candidate that, while I tried, I can bring myself to feel at all positive about.  There were others (plural) that I would have supported as the nominee, enthusiastically.  Now more then ever it is important that we have a solid, strong, effective nominee & sadly I suspect we have failed to do that.  So I will either choke & vote for Obama or if I just can't get there I will stay home in the first election ever, that I have been eligible to vote in.  It  is sad b/c I had intentions on being an active campaigner, but I can't be intellectually dishonest & point out strengths that I don't agree actually exist. My only arguments in his favor are that hopefully his advisers will ensure good SC noms & he isn't the GOP/McCain & maybe alot of us are wrong about him (all pretty weak).  If Clinton were to be on the VP ticket I'd be more optimistic re: his potential conduct in office, since she would be there clean up/advise. I will say I am very disappointed in the shortsightedness of the party, but there is nothing more I can do.

by jrsygrl 2008-06-02 02:52PM | 0 recs
invisible rec
And yes McCain is relying on the fierce, raw emotion of hrc followers to jump ship and vote for him rather than opt for rational thought. Many of them have truly allowed themselves to be convinced by media sources that Obama is a sexist, participated in race-baiting, stole the nomination..and other vile acts that are completely absurd.
Maybe this diary will help them see that McCain is relying on their being gullible and irrational.
They can't possibly prefer his presidency after evidence that he views them with such utter contempt.
by april34fff 2008-06-02 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: Is bogus

There was an unequivocal denial from McCain spokesperson Jeff Sadosky.

by americanincanada 2008-06-02 02:57PM | 0 recs
wow, thanks for clarifying. How naive. n/t

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: wow, thanks for clarifying. How naive. n/t

Please remove your unwarrented troll rate. Thank you.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: wow, thanks for clarifying. How naive. n/t

you do realize that you hid both his comment and your DEMAND from him don't you? Perhaps if you go tossing HR's around in such a knee-jerk fashion the TR was not unjustified...

by zerosumgame 2008-06-02 04:01PM | 0 recs
I actually meant to give you mojo...

But now I'd take it back if I could rate you nothing at all.  You could have just asked me why I troll-rated you and I would have changed it.

You can't make a retaliatory troll rating and you certainly can't do it with a zero.  According to the site's guidelines that calls for your rec and rate abilities to be removed.  I suggest you rectify it immediately.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I actually meant to give you mojo...

I can care less if they're removed, quite frankly.

But you are right that I would not have reacted in that way. It's been one of those days, so my apologies.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 04:10PM | 0 recs
Right...

Clinton supporters need McCain's campaign to create resentment within the ranks.  Uh huh.  

by linc 2008-06-02 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Played by McCain or played by the Democratic Party.

Is there a difference?

by feelfree 2008-06-02 03:05PM | 0 recs
I don't depend on McCain

for my thinking

I have a law degree from a top tier law school, and was Phi Beta at a top 20 undergraduate school.  I worked in DC for nearly 30 years.

And I lived through the 60s and 70s and know what kind of cruel, thoughtless people Ayers and Dohrn are -- Obama's friends, fundraisers, and in Ayers' case, an employer at the Annenberg Challenge.

And I've seen the utter racism spewing forth from the Trinity pulpit, while the pew inhabitants cheered.

I know who Obama associated with.  I think his heart is insincere, obsessed with power, and perhaps anti-American.

by katmandu1 2008-06-02 03:07PM | 0 recs
WOW! And you concluded all of this based on his

associations?

I know who Obama associated with.  I think his heart is insincere, obsessed with power, and perhaps anti-American.

Really, you can tell a man's heart based on people he may have worked or prayed with?  Your clairvoyance is impressive!  Perhaps you missed your calling.  

So are we free to judge you based on the reputation of other lawyers?  I'm sure, given the shady reputation of your industry, that you've worked with, associated with, had lunch with, studied with, obtained your JD with, passed the Bar with, and/or worked for some scum.  I mean, the odds are high that you are scum then, right?

/snark

No, you are a passionate supporter of Sen. Clinton and you have the right to be passionate for her and stand with her until the end and beyond.  But this is a Democrat community and your venomous rhetoric does not seem to be aimed at furthering the cause of any Dem at this point so why stay - or at least why comment?  Is your goal to BE destructive to the party?  

This party IS bigger than any one candidate - Hillary or Barack - believe that.

by ILean Left 2008-06-02 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't depend on McCain
lawyers can be trolls ya know...
by the way living "through" those times..How did you avoid the draft?(me I got drafted just before the lottery started) Did you join to serve your country..as a patriot would?
"anti-American?...really gave yourself away there.
Have any Nixon buttons left?
by nogo postal 2008-06-02 11:41PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't depend on McCain

I am f***ing sick of these fascist attacks on the patriotism of Democrats. Anyone who calls any elected Democrat "anti-American" is a fascist and likely a troll.

by X Stryker 2008-06-03 11:54AM | 0 recs
The best news out of this

is that the McCain camp is so financially feeble and idelogocially bankrupt as to require a viral marketing campaign to press negative talking points about his opponent.

If this is the best they can do, then there will indeed be a romp in November.

As a somewhat angered Clinton supporter, I think that there are much better ways to show our frustration.  I am happy to contribute to and campaign against democrats, particularly top tier women democrats, who didn't back Clinton if they face primary challenges.   I would welcome the fielding of primary challenges against these individuals.  I would welcome supporting principled opposition to Obama legislation should he become President.   But does it really make sense to back John McCain at this point?  I can't see it.

by activatedbybush 2008-06-02 03:12PM | 0 recs
McCain is playing you

Gosh... being exploited by the McCain wing or trashed by the Obama wing...  hmmm...  

What great options!

I'm sure the Obama camp has some memos floating around about how to appeal to Clinton supporters too.  Does that mean we're getting played by him too?

So much play.  So little time.

I'm writing in Hillary in November anyway, so let them all play with themselves!  I mean, with each other... or whatever.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-06-02 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain is playing you

Oh?  Shooting for 5000 dead? Clearly the political aspirations of a multimillioniare Senator and former First Lady is more important.

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:33PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain is playing you

There will be 5000 dead regardless of who becomes president.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-06-02 11:13PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain is playing you

Oh, yes.  You're so right.  A McCain presidency and a Democratic presidency would be indistinguishable on Iraq.  

by mikeinsf 2008-06-03 09:15AM | 0 recs
Susan, at least McCain is aware of our existence!

by suzieg 2008-06-02 10:45PM | 0 recs
McCain doesn't have to lift a finger

All one has to do is turn on AirAmerica and you've got all the Hillary-hate pro-Obama talking points.  
I can't even listen to NPR anymore without getting a dose.  

EVERY TIME they give a slanted view of the democratic primary ESPECIALLY on the radio stations that used to say things that I agreed with, it gets harder to want to support Obama.  

What I'm saying is this :  For even the left blogs (and most left papers) Hillary-hate and pro-Obama equal the same thing.  If I'm reacting to some idiot on the radio who says YET AGAIN that Hillary is 'cheating' or 'she doesn't play fair' or that 'sexism played only a minor role' I'm hearing it and I'm already ready to kick the radio.  Then they go for some pro-Obama point :  'Obama was overly flexible about Michigan'... 'There's so much racism/ignorance from the Hillary supporters - they all think Obama is the anti-Christ' or whatever.  

They've drawn the same equation.  It's the same equation we often see here on this blog, on the dkos, etc.  It's almost like a club.  You MUST be a Hillary-hater to be an Obama supporter.  

There's no room in this equation for us.  

Please don't troll me or call me names.  I'd LIKE to like Obama.  I understand he represents my views of the world better than McCain.  It's just really really hard to square that circle.  

by searchforsolidarity 2008-06-02 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you

I'm sure they have a similar memo for how to win over Obama supporters. And I fully expect the Obama campaign to have similar memos about winning over Huckabee or Giuliani supporters. It's politics. Any politician that doesn't have a plan to try to create defectors in the other party is someone who doesn't plan to win.

And really, the people who are being "played" are those of you who hyperventilate over this stuff and spend their time fretting about what Clinton supporters are doing. Real Clinton supporters know why we support her, know we aren't operatives of the McCain campaign, and tend to see right through all of this stuff.

by LakersFan 2008-06-02 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Democrats will have about 55 seats in senate in 2008.  All Leahy has to say is no Mr. President I will not bring his/her name to the floor.  He is the chairperson after all.  

Please stop attempting to scare people with Roe v Wade!

by WAREHOUSE553 2008-06-02 03:28PM | 0 recs
McCain can appoint appellate judges

that will determine reproductive rights cases at the state level. He's also promised to appoint conservative right-wing judges like Scalia. A Democratic Congress wouldn't stop the appointments since some of the judges on the Supreme court are over EIGHTY YEARS OLD AND COULD FUCKING DIE. Those are our liberal judges. If a case comes before a court that doesn't have two of our liberal judges due to a death, we're fucked.

by slinkerwink 2008-06-02 06:22PM | 0 recs
Well, at least McCain cares...

I don't see any attention from Barack Obama to this issue.  In fact, he seems pretty cavalierly in denial.  When asked about the growing divide in the party, he said, "I don't believe that's true.  That's just what people are saying."  He said he thought we would come together.  Of course, in his estimation that would happen naturally and magically, without any effort on his part.  Kind of like winning all of the uncommitted and four of Hillary's Michigan delegates as a fair "compromise."  Magic.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

Hillary Clinton is ALSO downplaying the growing divide. So can we call that a wash?

Kind of like winning all of the uncommitted and four of Hillary's Michigan delegates as a fair "compromise."

1: What makes the ballots, as is, worth more than toiletpaper? It's that they are presumed to accurately reflect the will of the voter, right?

Right

2: Do you contend that ZERO voters in Michigan wanted Obama? NO, correct? So if the ballots are NOT a fair reflection of the voters (as a collective), what gives them their worth?

"But he didn't have to take his name off the ballot!"

No, he didn't. But Hillary Clinton did not have to AGREE to the terms that Michigan didn't count, thus, no candidate will receive ANY delegates. When asked to explain why her name was on the ballot, she could have been honest instead of saying that the "votes won't count for anything."

She could have came right out and said, "If I fall behind I'm going to flip-flop and demand all votes be seated. And as a cherry on top I'll be the only major candidat with my name on the ballot."

Through this action she GAINED net delegates in Florida and Michigan when she AGREED all parties would receive zero. But that's not good enough, is it.

Please respond. Thank you.  

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

"But Hillary Clinton did not have to AGREE to the terms that Michigan didn't count."

You misunderstand the nature of the agreement.  If you can cite me a bargained for contract where Hillary Clinton agrees:

1. That she will never advocate for full inclusion of all 50 states' certified election  results.  

2. Where she says unequivocally, "Even if efforts to conduct the revote this ruling was intended to inspire are unforeseeably obstructed at every juncture by a candidate determined to silence the state, the election will not count."

3. And finally some DNC clause giving Hillary circa September 2007 the sole and exclusive authority to determine whether the Michigan election may influence the delegate selection process.

Until you can establish all three, there is no case.  

All you have is a hooplah about an offhand & errant remark from a candidate almost a year ago made under completely different circumstances.  

"2: Do you contend that ZERO voters in Michigan wanted Obama? NO, correct? So if the ballots are NOT a fair reflection of the voters (as a collective), what gives them their worth?"

I contend that there are voters in Michigan who wanted to select delegates having the option of voting for Obama at the convention, which was the best option he afforded the states' voters having voluntarily and freely sabotaged the Michigan primary because he knew he would lose there.  Fair reflection hence would be 73 Clinton / 55 Uncommitted.  73C/55O would be a stretch (given that the U. vote encompasses Edwards, Obama, Biden, and genuinely uncommitted voters of which there are still several: see North Carolina primary), but would be a bit more defensible than 69/59.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

August 31st, 2007
"As the leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules.

The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only 4 states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, 2008. The [Rules and Bylaws Committee's] finding of Non-Compliance included a 100% loss of pledged and unpledged delegates."

The Clinton camp the very next day:

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

Now, explain to me how a re-vote is even a foregone conclusion, or even implied. They all signed a contractual agreement stating that MI and FL were losing 100% of their delegates, thus, the candidates are not to campaign or participate in any way. How on God's green earth can you say something as complicated and expensive as a RE-vote be assumed?

When asked why she left her name on the ballot (the fact that she was even asked why should tell you something), Clinton said, "don't worry. It doesn't count anyway." If what you say is true why didn't Clinton just SAY "because I'm going to fight for a re-vote, and if that doesn't happen I want my name to count."? Too honest?

All you have is a hooplah about an offhand & errant remark from a candidate almost a year ago made under completely different circumstances.

The different circumstance being she wasn't behind.

I contend that there are voters in Michigan who wanted to select delegates having the option of voting for Obama at the convention

Exactly. So in other words the ballot as-is do NOT represent the will of the people. But what's more important than an accurate measure of what the people want... is what's on paper from flawed election that wasn't supposed to count and does not represent the will of the people. So long as it benefits Hillary.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-02 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

Nothing that you offer in any way approximate the three requirements I outlined above, but I'll address a few.

"all signed a contractual agreement stating that MI and FL were losing 100% of their delegates, thus, the candidates are not to campaign or participate in any way."

I won't fault you for not being a lawyer, but the pledge was by no means a "contract."  It was ceremonial.  Hillary never breached it.  Obama breached it by campaigning in Florida, twice.  And now that the four states have voted, any remaining relevance in the four state pledge is obsolete.  


Now, explain to me how a re-vote is even a foregone conclusion, or even implied.

These measures are designed to pressure the states to reschedule their primaries or if they have already occurred, to redo them.  There's precedent with Delaware in the 1990's.  Temporary exclusion is a proven measure at inspiring compliant votes and/or revotes.  It was never believed that Michigan and Florida were to actually be excluded from the process.  The narrative was hardball pressure to get Michigan and Florida into compliance.  Their attempted revotes were all blocked by Obama and surrogates.  Clever on his part?  Perhaps.  Honorable?  Hell no.  


Exactly. So in other words the ballot as-is do NOT represent the will of the people. But what's more important than an accurate measure of what the people want... is what's on paper from flawed election that wasn't supposed to count and does not represent the will of the people. So long as it benefits Hillary.

You misread me.  I said the people elected delegates having the option of voting for Obama, which was to refer to an uncommitted delegate, any of whom would have several options, one being to vote for Obama.  

I do think many people wanted to vote for Obama.  Possibly over 50% of the Uncommitted votes were meant for him.  Had he not preemtpively sabotaged the election by freely removing his name, even despite exhortations to the contrary, we wouldn't be having this voter intent problem.

He had his cake (evaded a loss), ate it (nullified the vote there), and then had another cake created out of thin air (55 delegates) with icing (4 Hillary delegates) in addition to the cake he already ate, but still has.  Ha!  

by BPK80 2008-06-03 02:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

Hillary never breached it.  Obama breached it by campaigning in Florida, twice.

In keeping with the ground rules that is inconsequential. Hillary Clinton keeping her name on the ballot, (had she been honest about her intent) was inconsequential.

These measures are designed to pressure the states to reschedule their primaries or if they have already occurred, to redo them.

You're kidding, right? How is "We're going to remove 100% of your delegates if you don't reschedule," followed by, "No no no, we're just kidding!" apply pressure?

Their attempted revotes were all blocked by Obama and surrogates.

Show me an example of Obama or someone from the Obama camp blocking the re-vote.

I do think many people wanted to vote for Obama.  Possibly over 50% of the Uncommitted votes were meant for him.  Had he not preemtpively sabotaged the election by freely removing his name, even despite exhortations to the contrary, we wouldn't be having this voter intent problem.

He had his cake (evaded a loss), ate it (nullified the vote there), and then had another cake created out of thin air (55 delegates) with icing (4 Hillary delegates) in addition to the cake he already ate, but still has.  Ha!  

I'll give it to you, you're an excellent dancer.

And how many Obama supporters, or Edwards supporter, or Richardson supporters, or Biden supporters thought, "Well, my favorite candidate isn't on the ballot. But of those who are, Clinton is my favorite." Being that she was the ONLY major candidate and all.

And you never did answer as to why Hillary Clinton was dishonest about her reason for leaving her name off. And if it was obvious, why she was being questioned in the first place.

I get it. You're trying to spin it so that Obama was being slick by leaving his name off. But then you'd have to also say Edwards was being slick. Richardson was being slick. Joe Biden was being slick. Literally EVERY major candidate by Clinton was. She was the loan advocate, the only one who cared about voter rights. Well, cared after she fell behind.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-03 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least McCain cares...

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/5/1 2623/93695

Blocked revote in Michigan.  

Edwards, Richardson, Biden, and Obama were all being slick.  You find that unnatural behavior for career politicians?

"And you never did answer as to why Hillary Clinton was dishonest about her reason for leaving her name off."

What was your question?

by BPK80 2008-06-04 04:07PM | 0 recs
Condescending crap...

Who the F do you think you are to tell anyone they're being "played"?  What do you think, you're the wise one and everyone else is naive?  Give me a break.  This posting is insulting and beyond ridiculous.  Play that.  

by DaTruth 2008-06-02 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you,

Not sure why anyone here should be so surprised.  Haven't you been paying attention to the last 8 years of Rovian politics of division?  

Maybe you think this shit doesn't happen anymore?  Any divisions within our party can and will be exploited to their fullest.  Believe it.

by haystax calhoun 2008-06-02 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

A way for Hilary supporters not to be played. Put her on the ticket. ok?

If not, yes, we resent the sexist media. Yes, we think Obama is unqualified. will that stop me from voting for Obama? No. Will it stop others--some women, some racists, some working class? Yes.

by NY Writer 2008-06-02 04:03PM | 0 recs
We don't need to say Welcome Aboard

to Clinton supporters.  Clinton supporters, as Democrats, have always been aboard.  We've had our intra-party squabbles but it's all forgiven and forgotten just like intra-family squabbles are when the family is threatened.

McCain is a threat to our family and our country.  No matter which candidate we supported in the primary, we Democrats will not be defeated by a bunch of thugs.

by GFORD 2008-06-02 04:06PM | 0 recs
Are you saying I behave like a thug?

Or that you behave like a thug?  If not us but others, neither of us can be held responsible for the behavior of others.  So as long as you and I don't behave like thugs we have no argument.

by GFORD 2008-06-02 08:07PM | 0 recs
re

My mother is 65 and has voted for every Democratic nominee since Humphrey in 1968. She is mad as hell and I was literally shocked when I visted her today and she told me she sent money to McCain and signed up to volunteer. The problem is real and if its ignored it could be big. Obama needs to make a an offer to Hillary of some kind. People need to forget about Bill Clinton, Hillary's most die hard supporters are FOR Hillary nothing to do with Bill. Obama-Clinton in my opinion might win 35 states, without Hillary he can still win but so can McCain is it worth the risk?

by rossinatl 2008-06-02 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: re

Congratulations on your prescience. I agree, the only way for Obama to wrap this up is to put Hillary on the ticket. As for McCain "playing" Clinton supporters, hey he is at least playing. Barack, our aloof, pledge-count addled leader is still shadow boxing against Clinton.

by superetendar 2008-06-02 04:46PM | 0 recs
Big deal

No shit.  Don't you think we are smart enough to figure that out?  However, the majority of people in that demographic are not on line, and his attempts there don't have anything to do their decision to vote for him. These people have been watching the campaign as it goes along and are madder than hell from their own observations of real life.

by Scotch 2008-06-02 06:10PM | 0 recs
Supporters of Obama should avoid this too

By getting involved in flame wars, or otherwise acting like assholes to fellow Dems, supporters of either candidate are just helping McCain.

Lets rip into McCain's shockingly ignorant ass rather than our allies.

by PSockNerd 2008-06-02 06:17PM | 0 recs
McCain is apparently a

good enough politician to have kept his seat for a long time. There is a huge rift right now in the Democratic Party. Why would it come as a surprise to anyone that McCain would try to exploit it? I haven't seen or heard anything out of Obama that would indicate he is doing anything to try and heal it, either. I hope he doesn't just assume that all of Hillary's supporters will come around and vote for him in November without any effort on his part. McCain's tactic would probably work like a charm, in that case.

by georgiapeach 2008-06-02 06:37PM | 0 recs
Harriet Christian is no Democrat

more like a cranky racist with a smoker's cough

by Bargeron 2008-06-02 07:17PM | 0 recs
Fearless Tracker Report #4

Well, this is interesting.  I smell Republican Troll Poo,(RTP), in here, but there doesn't appear to be any signs of spore.  Interesting.

They're getting smarter!  These roving bands of Republican Trolls, swinging from thread to thread, know that I'm on their trail!  They've discovered the benefits of Adult Diapers.  Tricky bastards!

Oh, I have some preliminary lab analysis back from my earlier spore samples:  Republican Trolls cannot digest Gasoline.  Apparently, it's only Karosene.  Still, somewhat interesting.

This, of course, explains the whole Iraq thing.

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-02 08:31PM | 0 recs
Your title is

insulting. I did not get past that part.

I have not and am not being "played" by anyone.

I am aware, I am not a drone and I am not blind.

by kevin22262 2008-06-02 08:42PM | 0 recs
Too bad

when you just read and comment on titles you skip the majority of what people are writing about.

I'd like to clarify that no, I'm not trying to insult anyone with this diary. If you're insulted by McCain's campaign and their own words - viewing you as a demographic, cynically taking advantage of your deeply held beliefs and emotions that you came to on your own - don't get angry at me. I find it just as insulting as you do. And if you don't find it insulting - you're applauding his move, even if not his motives - the consider the motive. Consider how that measures up to your own standards and ideals that you've professed by supporting Clinton.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

Too bad there has to be an insult in the title that pushes people away.

by kevin22262 2008-06-02 10:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

I'm sorry you're looking for insult out of me when its coming from McCain.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 11:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

If some many people think it is insulting, Don't you think they could be right?

If it's something so easy to avoid like a inflamatory title why not take it on board and avoid such pitfalls in the future?

by Ernst 2008-06-03 12:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

No. It's coming from you and the other Clinton hating Obama trolls (who came in droves about 3 weeks ago)and supporters.

McCain has laid out his 7 point strategy to beat Obama- it was in the newspapers so none of it comes as a surprise. I can't remember all 7 points but #1 is to take him down as the 'messiah' candidate and make him talk with smaller venues, town halls and more debates. No messiah rallies. #2 was point out his inexperience and play up the gaffes and the lack of strong policy stances, not understaning foreign policy and history. #3 was attack on his 'patriotism' including the lapel pin and on up to the church and Rev Wright. #4 was to go after the voters in which Obama was weak and McCain holds some credentials (latino votes, working class whites, women, jews, asians, mid-easterners etc)
- plus three others I can't remember right now, oh one had to do with pointing out McCains history of reaching across the isle to bring about change and Obama's 'rhetoric' and not having done it. Pretty much what you would have expected him to after Obama on and to reach out to a wider base of voters.

So to write a diary that Clinton supporters are 'being played' is an insult and meant to be an insult, however I don't think a lot of them took the bait in the way you expected.

Obama wants my vote- HE has to earn it. I won't fall for the politics of fear. The politics of intellectualty. Or any attack on McCain...I want to know that Obama 'gets it' and needs to become a stronger candidate who thinks he can govern effectively (hope and change are campaign hype not substantive issues)  and not be a one term flop and leave us stuck with 12-16 years worth of Republican administrations. The next 4 years is going to be an extremely tough time for America and I'd rather see a Republican as the one term President and not the Democrat. A very real possibility.

by Justwords 2008-06-03 03:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

No Way! I would rather see a Democrat, even as a one term prez, so they can STOP this train wreck!

Also.... Judges Judges JUDGES! Lots of federal and Supreme court justices!

by kevin22262 2008-06-03 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Too bad

Somehow you know what's meant to be an insult and what isn't? Trust me, if I wanted to insult people, I have no problems doing so - I wouldn't have to couch it in triple speak like people seem to think I'm doing.

The people that are upset are the ones for whom outrage and offense are second nature by now. Anger at anyone you perceive to be on the other side, and that's fine if that's what level you're at.

by upstate girl 2008-06-03 10:05AM | 0 recs
Yeah, but

setting aside your feeling about the diary, how do you feel about the mccain memo?

by mikeinsf 2008-06-02 10:22PM | 0 recs
I think it is

the typical rove MO.

Did I expect it? Hell yes!

But... do you realize that you help mccain by pushing away Clinton supporters? By insulting them? By attacking alegre everyday?

Some Obama supporters are "playing into the hands" of mccain and rove by helping to disenfranchise, humiliate and diminish Clinton and her supporters.

Time for some of those O supporters to police their own and call out the fakes.

also... to remember and live by these words:

Hope, Unity and Change.

by kevin22262 2008-06-02 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: I think it is

I'm really unconcerned if there are people in some small corner Blogylvania who will vote for McCain based upon perceived offenses by pro-Obama bloggers.

If that's how one makes a decision regarding the future of our nation, the there's really no reaching them: "poor anonymous and innocent alegre's feelings get hurt, so I'll vote for the war monger".  Whatever.  Please.

by mikeinsf 2008-06-03 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: I think it is

okie dokie.

You are now part of the problem.

by kevin22262 2008-06-03 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

upstate girl, give me a break. The vitriol that you have been spilling on Hillary till date is almost equivalent to that of the Republicans.

Kindly stop trying to tell anyone out here that they can be taken advantage of. It smacks of double standards.

by optimisticBoy 2008-06-02 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Find me one comment - just one - that I've made that has been vitrolic towards Hillary Clinton. Go ahead, I'll wait.

You think people can't be taken advantage of? I think everyone can be taken advantage of, given the right circumstances. You're looking for offense out of me when its coming straight from the McCain campaign.

by upstate girl 2008-06-02 11:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

How about this for a sample?

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/1/11 943/26294/121#121

by optimisticBoy 2008-06-03 01:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Or perhaps this?

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/30/1 44916/548/17#17

Some of your comments are vitriolic to the point of revulsion.

by optimisticBoy 2008-06-03 01:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

In neither of those was I addressing Clinton. I was addressing individual posters on this board and I stand by what I said. That's not what you accused me of doing. Separate yourself from Clinton for once.

by upstate girl 2008-06-03 10:07AM | 0 recs
LMAO

And how is McCain playing Clinton suppporters?  It sounds like he is doing what would be expected, go after what has already been abandoned by Obama.  What, he's supposed to do what Obama does?  Say, "we're the new party, we don't need blue collar, hispanics, seniors, "?  

Of course he would take what was given him.  That's smart.

by environmentally blue 2008-06-02 09:39PM | 0 recs
Hillary ran a lousy campaign.

Just reading this thread, it's incredible how much damage Hillary's "kitchen sink" strategy has done to the Democratic Party.  

This negative campaign strategy, advised for HIllary by anti-Democratic white misogynist men - Karl Rove, Pat Buchanon, Bill O'Reilly and Bill Kristol - was a big mistake on her part, and she has a lot of work to do to undo the damage she's done to the party.

Why the Clintons are so utterly unable to admit that they had a flawed strategy from the start - to ignore the caucus states and spend ALL their money weeks prior to Super Tuesday - is anyone's guess.  

by tibbs 2008-06-03 05:27AM | 0 recs
LOL

Let's see, on the one hand you don't believe a thing a Rethug says, but when it goes your way, you do.

Believe what you want.  If this is really a strategy, they are doing it because Obama is the weaker candidate and they know it darned well and they will try to take advantage of it in every way they can.

by Montague 2008-06-03 05:38AM | 0 recs
If you allow non issues to reign

You suck.  This has been the Republican game plan since Bush 1 but the non issues become more assinine with each cycle.  Barack Obama is the only man on earth whos words just dont matter.  Everyone BUT him speaks for him.  

Please dont draw your opinions on why you think are Obama supporters, please dont draw your associations on you think are Obama associaties.  Please draw you conclusions directly off the impressions you get from him.  His writings his words - hell I wasn't mad people got upset over bittergate it was the only thing he actually said even though he didn't mean it, and tried like heck to tell the world what he meant.

The real fact is we are engaged in a war of agression in Iraq under pretenses that got people hung in Nuremburg.  The real facts are we have ships floating around where they torture humans to within an inch of their lives.  The real facts are we have corporate interests unchecked feeding like vultures off the hard work of real Americans while they take the profit overseas.  The real facts are you are taking your life in your hands if drive on thousands of bridges in America.  The real facts are I just paid 54 bucks to fill up a Ford Focus.  If you're on the McCain side of all that despite what anyone including the devil has to say, whatever!

by Adept2u 2008-06-03 05:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

He doesn't have to play me, he's already got my support.

by demswin06 2008-06-03 06:11AM | 0 recs
Well, then, guess it is time to change your

handle.

And your blog preferences.

johnmccain.com is calling.  They want you to be their 100th user.

If, in fact, that is a change for you.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-03 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is

This is the least of Obama's worries. He needs to worry about all those old school dems and indies who are computer illiterate and are likely to vote for McCain. This post already rank with alibis in case he blows it is laughable. According to this if Obama loses it's all the fault of gullible Hillary supporters. Yep this sounds like a great way to unify the Democratic party.

by ottovbvs 2008-06-03 07:39AM | 0 recs
by nogo postal 2008-06-03 07:51AM | 0 recs
Obamabots have no problem

calling hillary and her supporters evil and republicans...equating hill to mccain constantly (oh, i almost miss my days at the orange site).

they're surprised then by mccain's tactic? we're not stupid you know. i know the objective of why mccain would not be treating hill and her supporters like shit. that he's nice and respectful to her and her constituencies is supposed to be vile? what's vile is when your own family treats you like pond scum. all of a sudden we're obligated to hold hands and reconcile?

i feel like i'm in some sort of fantasy land. we're shoved aside and then it's also up to us to keep in line and make nice? it's you're either with us or against us 9the irony...after being repeatedly called republican and rovian). just infuckingcredible.

by darwinism 2008-06-03 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Leaked memo: McCain is playing you, Clinton su

Give me a break!  You must have taken a creative writing course.  The only groups playing the Democrats are the media and the Obama campaign.  They're scared to death with their internal polls.

by jmcdade 2008-06-03 01:05PM | 0 recs
What makes you think they HAVE to play us?

There is no such thing as a perfect candidate. However, I have never spoken to an Obama supporter who was willing to cite any flaws in their candidate...not one.

Most of us don't follow a candidate in lockstep...we do an evaluation of pros and cons, and arrive at a judgment as to which candidate is the best fit with our aspirations and goals for the country. The Obam-orons who speak of his brilliance, messenger of hope, and all that bullshit will be the first ones to turn on him in the unlikely event he is elected. Because there is no way he will be able to live up to their lofty expectations...nobody could.

My point is that having gone through my more intellectual approach, Senator Clinton was my first choice, McCain a distant second, and Barack a very distant third. For me, it's all very logical.

SO--it's very presumptuous of you to think that any one will be "playing" us, or needs to. Many of us will support John McCain on our own--albeit as the lesser of two evils--but with votes, money, and maybe a little shoe leather if we get really motivated.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-03 02:22PM | 0 recs
What makes you think they HAVE to play us?

There is no such thing as a perfect candidate. However, I have never spoken to an Obama supporter who was willing to cite any flaws in their candidate...not one.

Most of us don't follow a candidate in lockstep...we do an evaluation of pros and cons, and arrive at a judgment as to which candidate is the best fit with our aspirations and goals for the country. The Obam-orons who speak of his brilliance, messenger of hope, and all that bullshit will be the first ones to turn on him in the unlikely event he is elected. Because there is no way he will be able to live up to their lofty expectations...nobody could.

My point is that having gone through my more intellectual approach, Senator Clinton was my first choice, McCain a distant second, and Barack a very distant third. For me, it's all very logical.

SO--it's very presumptuous of you to think that any one will be "playing" us, or needs to. Many of us will support John McCain on our own--albeit as the lesser of two evils--but with votes, money, and maybe a little shoe leather if we get really motivated.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-03 02:23PM | 0 recs

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