Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination battle

In a desperation move to attempt to regain momentum the Obama campaign is exposing exactly what Chicago politics is famous for.  Forsaking his "politics of change", Senator Obama's campaign is now in an attempt to shield attention from their candidates looming real-estate/money-laundering/extortion scandal ties, is now willing to destroy and shatter the DEM party in order to throw the kitchen sink in the rehabed but heaterless apartment buildings at Senator Clinton.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/03/05/734818.aspx

"Part of what the Obama campaign would like the focus to be on is ethics -- something adviser David Axelrod said they would be glad to have a debate over. But the Obama campaign may be a victim of time, since an argument on ethics could be tough to steer with the ongoing Rezko trial."

Follow over the break....

"Echoing Axelrod, Plouffe said the campaign would be more than willing to tangle with the Clintons, appearing to suggest that if needed they would raise issues like Whitewater that plagued the Clintons in the 90s."

"He (Plouffe)added that because the Clinton campaign couldn't win on pledged delegates, it would try to devise "alternative nomination strategies."

What Mr. Plouffe forgets to mention...just like Obama did with the NAFTA gaffe...is that Barack can't win on pedged delegates either.  Thus, here comes Barack's "alternative nomination strategies".

Funny, but I guess when the going got tough, the Unity and Hope went out the window.  What were those...words?  I guess they were indeed, just words.

Tags: 2008, clinton, David Axlerod, Election, obama, president, U.S. (all tags)

Comments

46 Comments

Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

It won't work.

The overriding problem obama has is the answer to that 3 am ad.

Who do you want answering the call ?

- He failed the national security test in Texas.

That is his major problem and going against Mccain his deficiency would be glaring to the democrats.

Check out this scenario which is very likely , this thing plays out till the end obama has a small delegate lead , clinton leads the popular vote , public polls show democrats want clinton to be the nominee .

What do superdelegates do then ?

by lori 2008-03-05 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

His answer to the 3AM ad is fine.

Hillary Clinton has faced exactly one "defining" test - one 3 AM moment - in her public service. It was the AUMF vote, and she failed it.

If you think Hillary is going to "pass" the "CiC" test with her "experience" against McCain, you're mistaken.

Also, not to burst your bubble, but the country disagrees with you. Obama leads McCain by twice as much as Clinton.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain trails Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in hypothetical matchups, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released on Wednesday.
ADVERTISEMENT

Illinois Sen. Obama leads McCain by 12 percentage points -- 52 percent to 40 percent; New York Sen. Clinton leads McCain by 6 points -- 50 percent to 44 percent, the poll found.

by mattw 2008-03-05 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

At this point I am talking about democrats , especially in the wake of Texas.

That is his greatest vulnerability that is why he is on the defensive , when the battle is joined against Mccain assuming it is Obama and it is a national security battle , I find it difficult to see how he wins if his response to a 3 am ad is , it is fearmongering.

by lori 2008-03-05 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

I don't think he's on the defensive. He's trying to hit clinton on it:

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factche ck/2008/03/01/fact_check_clinton_still_h as_n.php

(Warning: Partisan source. Used only to demonstrate Obama will go after opponent)

It is fearmongering, though.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

LOL...I don't think so....

http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/ 03/05/1st-nationwide-clinton-vs-mccain-p oll-after-clinton-victories-in-oh-and-tx /

Pairing #1:

Clinton 48%
McCain 46%

Pairing #2:

Obama 46%
McCain 46%

by TxDem08 2008-03-05 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

My poll can beat up your poll.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

LOL!!!

Just wait for my poll's big brother!
This is great.

by TxDem08 2008-03-06 03:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

What Mr. Plouffe forgets to mention...just like Obama did with the NAFTA gaffe...is that Barack can't win on pedged delegates either.  Thus, here comes Barack's "alternative nomination strategies".

Okay, I'm going to have to nominate this for Most Disingenuous Quote Ever.

When someone says, "X can't win on pledged delegates", it means that without superdelegates drastically overturning the voting results, they can't win.

So, if Obama finishes with 1700 delegates, and Clinton has 1500, neither can win "on pledged delegates". If superdelegates break drastically against Obama to give Hillary the nomination, they have effectively overruled voters.

A whole lot of dems have said it just isn't going to happen.

just like Obama did with the NAFTA gaffe.

By the way, all of Obama's involvement with that has been debunked. No phone call. The memo "misrepresented" Goolsbee according to a Canadian investigation. And, you'll love this part - the Canadian Prime Minister's chief of staff turns out to be the leak for the story, and he says Hillary told them not to worry about NAFTA.

by mattw 2008-03-05 08:46PM | 0 recs
I think that NAFTAgate will

end up biting Hillary in the end.  

Check out this article.  There is a FULL INVESTIGATION happening right now as we speak.

I predict this is going to BLOW UP IN HILLARY'S FACE.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/s tory/RTGAM.20080305.wharpleak0305/BNStor y/National/home

by puma 2008-03-05 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Um, no.

It takes 2025 delegates to win the nomination.  There is no way around it.  That is the rules.  One of them would have to take EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Superdelegates in order to get the nomination.  Clearly that is not going to happen.

Obama's involvement has not been debunked.  There was contact.  Mr. Goolsbee says the memo misprepresnts his comments.  Yet in all the haste, Obama-ites continue to look beyond the immediate fact that yes indeed.  Goolsbee had contact with the Consul General, the #3 man in the Embassy.  They discussed NAFTA, and worse yet, Obama himself for 2 days denied it, after knowing that there was indeed contact.

How do we know this, well this is from the day the story broke.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/02/obama_denies_canadian_re port_a.php

"The news reports on Obama's position on NAFTA are inaccurate..."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/ story?id=4360446&page=1

"Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said that "the news reports on Obama's position on NAFTA are inaccurate..."

And in case you like to watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME4Ir99gK Pw&feature=related

Again...there would be a contact log if there was.  They would have found it by now, and all this is, is obfuscation and whistling past the graveyard.  If her campaign had contact, she has already given "blanket immunity" to let the Canadians or any news service to release the name of who had contact with the Canadian gov't.

I know that Politicians normally, especially 'experienced' ones don't make those type of blanket statements or guarantees.  Obama has learned the hard way, why that is.

by TxDem08 2008-03-05 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

It takes 2025 delegates to win the nomination.  There is no way around it.  That is the rules.  One of them would have to take EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Superdelegates in order to get the nomination.  Clearly that is not going to happen.

Huh? Let's put it this way - if Hillary and Obama split every remaining delegate, pledged and super - right now, Obama would have over 2024 and win, and she would not.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

If is a big word, but go on and dream your dream, Obama can't even consolidate the dems so how does he win with that strategy?  Obama has already lost the Clinton voters, that is clear to me, how does he plan to get them back, by attacking her?  That's real smart.  Geez!

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 10:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

I'm not sure why a 50/50 split, when the contest is 2/3 over and Obama is winning by over 100, is so inconceivable to you.

If Obama can't consolidate the dems, then neither can Hillary, and we lose to McCain. I don't think that's the case.

by mattw 2008-03-05 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

That's only if you split 50/50.  That doesn't happen.  Nice try, but it's all hypothetical.  Obama will probably take MS, and also WY, but he won't get 50% of the delegates.  Sorry.

by TxDem08 2008-03-06 03:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Also, with respect to naftagate:

everything you listed has been debunked.

Obama told the truth, every step of the way.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

No he didn't and I am tired of this topic, his adviser did have that meeting, and she did not call Canada.  so there!

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

He didn't deny his adviser had a meeting. He denied that his campaign made a phone call to Michael Wilson. And on one said she called Canada... her staff did it for her.

by mattw 2008-03-05 10:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Now you're trying to tel us what your definition of 'is' is?

You and your candidate are obfuscating the truth.  He got caught lying, and should have just stuck to his original comments.  The report is "inaccurate".

This clearly shows that he was contacted PRIOR to the story breaking for comment, and was aware of what was going on.  That means the campaign took a pre-determined position on what their position was to be, and they decided to try and stonewall the issue.  And HE LIED.  And now he's having to deal with the fallout that all came about from that LIE.

Welcome to Chicago and old-Washington politics.

I thought words mattered to Sen. Obama and his supporters?  LIES...Just words?  

by TxDem08 2008-03-06 03:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Let's review:

(1) Canada invites Goolsbee to visit, so he meets with Georges Rioux in Chicago
(2) Goolsbee reiterates Obama's public position
(3) Memo mischaracterizes what he says
(4) CTV reports a senior official of the Obama campaign called Michael Wilson on the phone to "warn" them that Obama would use fiery NAFTA rhetoric that would not represent his real position
(5) Obama denies that
(6) CTV reports that Goolsbee has met consulate
(7) Obama campaign says Goolsbee said nothing of the kind
(8) Memo leaked
(9) Obama campaign states memo has mischaracterized Goolsbee
(10) CBC reports Canadian investigation agrees memo has mischaracterized Goolsbee

I challenge you to find a place where Obama lied, based on the context that was known at the time. He can't possible know everything every person in his campaign says at all times.

by mattw 2008-03-06 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

No he didn't. He denied there was a meeting the confirmed there was a meeting.

by RJEvans 2008-03-05 10:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

No, he denied a phone call brought up in a sensationally inaccurate report that bore no resemblance to reality.

by mattw 2008-03-05 10:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Which candidate is playing footsie with Karl Rove?

And as if the campaign isn't odd enough, Hillary appeared on Fox & Friends this morning.

"I'm told no one won the party's nomination in recent history without winning their party's primary in Ohio."

She sounds ebullient, as she makes a reference to Karl Rove, who had appeared a moment ago.

Then Rove passes a note to Steve Doocy, "More U.S. presidents have been born in the month of October than in any other month. Hillary, you were born in..."

She laughs, and not the preprogrammed cackle. "October! Thank you, Karl. The omens are just stacking up, what can I say?"

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-05 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

The one who has already shown an affinity to trot out Republican attack ads, and then say they are just part of the process that goes on.

See: "Harry & Louise".

That is straight out of Lee Atwaters playbook.  I 'hope' he did his supporters proud.  

by TxDem08 2008-03-05 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Interesting that you would bring up Atwater, what with her trying to make Farrakhan into Obama's Willie Horton and all.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-05 09:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Did she do that or are you trying to bend the truth a little here?

She asked him if he rejected or denounced Minister Farakhan?  He said reject...

Now, for someone who even though they take words from someone else's speech, should know that those two words are indeed different.

Reject: to refuse to accept, consider, submit to, take for some purpose, or use

Denounce:to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil

Just words?  Especially a lawyer should be able to understand and parse the difference between these two, right?  Or did they not cover this at Harvard Law?  Farakhan endorsed him, and he tried to thread the needle, like he has with his pastor, on what he will say against them.

Just words?  Actions speak louder than words Obama.

by TxDem08 2008-03-06 03:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

Whoa whoa whoa - she attacks him and soldiers on towards Denver, it's a campaign worth having, but when he attacks her and soldiers on towards Denver, it's tearing the party apart???

I have choice words for that logic.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-03-05 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

She attacked him on his positions. His record, and his slip-ups (NAFTA-GATE).

If they want to try and trot out Whitewater and the like, then that's his perogative.  But he will show the country that he IS the same old style of Washington politics, and that he is willing to do anything to win, at any cost.

Including, attempting to surface allegations against Hillary that were proven false after a long and expensive (over $40M), to gain what charges against Hillary?  None.

Sure...I think Hillary is more than willing to have that arguement.  And that shows no logic, at all.  Unity and Hope?  Only when I'm winning and getting the kid glove treatment.  When I get punked after getting my hand caught in the trade-jar, and then get bitch slapped (proverbially) by losing 3 of 4 contests, it's Katy bar the door.

yeah, that logical and gives Hillary the nomination out right as he implodes, and mass hysteria breaks out here and over at ObamaKos.

by TxDem08 2008-03-05 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

If going 1-4 for is a bitch slap, what's 0-11, or adding them together, 3-14?

by Nathan Empsall 2008-03-06 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: National Security is so legitimate--

Remember..."Bitch's get stuff done!"

LOL!

by TxDem08 2008-03-05 09:14PM | 0 recs
There is no way that Hillary will get

the nomination.

The reality is that Obama's delegate lead is too big.

There is no way that the superdelegates will give Hillary the nomination if Obama has the most delegates at the end of June.

If that was to happen, the Dem party would then be TORN APART.  

by puma 2008-03-05 09:17PM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way that Hillary will get

Okay, seriously. Enough with the hyperbole. If Clinton did far better than polls and Obama camp expectations in remaining states, including Michigan and Florida, she might close the gap to something very small, and superdelegates might put her over. Especially if she were leading the popular vote. Or, less likely, she might win in pledged delegates.

It isn't over yet. Go donate to Obama and buckle your seatbelt.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way that Hillary will get

Well said.  Let the competition begin anew, or continue I should say.  If it's as competitive as it has been over the last 3 weeks, it will go all the way to Denever, and whomever has the momentum and ground swell will influence the SD's.  Whomever can win the big states, and be strong on the issues will be able to help down-ticket races which we so badly need to win also.

Upward and Onward...and let's go help Hillary kick Obama's ass!  Okay...okay...you've got to know that was in jest.  Just a little.  lol!

Hey, this is fun.

by TxDem08 2008-03-06 03:54AM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way that Hillary will get

Delegates do not represent the majority of the voters.

by gunner 2008-03-05 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way that Hillary will get

I never trust anybody who says "the reality is"  as if I need someone to tell me what the "reality" is, I know the next thing they say isn't reality at all, but a cheap imitation of reality.  That was Guiliani's pet saying, so I really don't like it.

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: For real?

How about Normal Hsu, Hillary's Taxes, Marc Rich, and the deal that got Clinton's foundation a 9-digit donation?

I agree with you that whitewater is done with. But it doesn't mean there's not a nice, thick opposition research file to delve into.

by mattw 2008-03-05 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama

Here's hoping Obama brings up impeachment, Whitewater and Ken Starr. Can you say Democratic backlash???

by rossinatl 2008-03-05 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama

I agree with that sentiment.

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

You don't see this stuff doesn't matter.  Obama is just like all the rest and the sooner he is exposed for the rel guy he is the better.  Bring it on, because you see, all this stuff has already been talked about over and over and over, If it even mattered, why would she win in Ohio?  Because this garbage is stuff that doesn't matter.  People are worried about losing their homes, about not having health care, about losing their job, or not finding a new one after already losing the one the had.  This stuff is useless and stupid in the extreme.  Obama lost Ohio because his resume didn't measure up.  Its simple really.  None of the Rezko stuff has yet to be on the front burner, its his lack in qualifications that lost for him.  All this other trash on the net roots and the threats?  No one cares!!!

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: For real?

Obama will say or do anything to get this nomination but will bringing up all that old stuff work? NO!!

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:43PM | 0 recs
Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination?

I'm a liberal Independent which means I'm pretty much stuck with the Democratic party.  Sorta like a beaten spouse.  I watched with horror in 2004 when democratic voters voted for the guy they disliked because they thought he could win, only to see him spit on.  This time it's a familiar face threatening to override the more popular candidate with inside connections or burn the house down trying.

The primaries are a test that Clinton has failed.  She has run a less successful campaign than her opponent and has zero chance of winning the pledged delegate majority.  So you want the party insiders to override that?  Hell, why have a primary in the first place?  She had the same name recognition a month ago that she has now.  You could have just held the coronation then.

Once again I have the sinking feeling that the Democratic party is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. That on top of the unconstitutional capitulation of congressional democrats has me just shaking my head and preparing for the continued downslope of our country as I sit this election out.

by VogonPoet 2008-03-05 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination?

Heres' hoping you do

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination?

Glad there are excellent examples of democratic party professionals here like yourself to show me how it's done.  The judges give your response 9.0, snappy and insulting but with an unfortunate lack of  counter argument.

by VogonPoet 2008-03-05 10:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination?

Barking about pledged delegates is meaningless because it is a flawed startegy. Too bad, you fell for it.

No matter what you say, winning in Nov is important even if it is 271-269. A win is guaranteed with Hillary. With Obama it is flakey and shakey just like him.

by Sandeep 2008-03-06 06:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama willing to tear DEM party in nomination

His lead?  He is not leading he is imploding because he can't get the nomination without those pesky super delegates either. I hope he takes off his mask so we all see the real Obama, can't wait.  

by democrat voter 2008-03-05 09:49PM | 0 recs
Obama whining in nomination battle

For all those Obama supporters who whine that superdelegates should vote for Obama because he won more pledged ones, I have only one thing to say:

SuperDs are hardcore Democrats and hardcore Democrats have voted for Hillary more than Obama. Get your Republican Superdelegates to vote for you, oops I forgot, the convention is not open for all, only for Democrats!

by Sandeep 2008-03-06 05:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama whining in nomination battle

Hillary supporters should not assume they have any advantage with super delegates. They will go with the perceived winner at the end. The popular vote and pledged delegates will factor into the decision but may or may not be the deciding factor. It's still a horse race but having the delegate and popular votye lead is a big plus.

Clinton won the last round but the battle continues.  Experience has been just a Clinton campaign phrase that up until now has not been vetted but it will know have to bear up under a reality check.

In the White House Hillary did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president's daily intelligence briefing and she did not answer any 3AM calls. Neither she herself or her senior campaign staff could name one international crisis she was instrumental in resolving when questioned by reporters. Her first 3AM moment came with the Iraq vote, she failed. Her second, the Iran vote, she failed again.

Her resume is exaggerated, puffed up and fabricated and will not stand up to scrutiny. Not only does she not have the judgment she does not have the experience she claims either.

As for being vetted, more campaign spin. She does not want to be held to the same standard that she demands the press hold Obama to. That won't fly for much longer.

by hankg 2008-03-06 08:20AM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads