[UPDATE]Was Hillary's 'White" Comment really that bad?

Alright I usually miss these things, I honestly thought that the whole Wright thing would never last more then 2 days, well I was wrong about that.

so yesterday when I heard the white comment, well 1) I didn't think it was true, Democrats never win the white working class vote, its the minority vote, latinos, Blacks, etc, the minority vote is what gets democrats to the white house and many many seats around the country. and as the gallup poll yesterday said, Obama isn't really that far behind then Kerry was among the white votes, so it seems more to me that DEMOCRATS have a white problem, not Obama, but whatever

but here it is 24 hrs later and whats on Morning Joe? the White comment, and what was everywhere yesterday the White comment, sure it was a bit tasteless, the question was What was Hillary's Path to the Nomination? and she basically says I got white people.

it was a dumb way to answer the question, but really was it that bad? Dan Abrams said last night had this happened a month ago this REALLY would have exploded, but only the fact that basically Hillary is done is really keeping this exploding in her face,

so I was wrong about Wright, I was wrong about Tulza (thought it would be more of a big deal) I was wrong about 'Bitter' so I am starting to think I am wrong about the "white" comment and this is not going to go away so then I have to ask was it really that bad? and if so why?

and HRC supporters obviously you are going to say no, so how about instead you can just tell us what she really meant, and why she choose that way to answer the question about what her path to the nomination was.

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[UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal

as we all know MI came up with their own proposal that they submitted to the DNC

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/michigan_dems_suggest_co mpromi.php

and as Chris Bowers note just about EVERY High level official in Michigan approved of the plan,

the new deal proposed from the Michigan Democratic Party should be an end to it. Every high-level Michigan Democrat now appears to be behind a 69-59 pledged delegate split, plus seating the superdelegates

and as was diaried earlier the Obama campaign had all but accepted.

we now Hillary has said no
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/

"This proposal does not honor the 600,000 votes that were cast in Michigan's January primary. Those votes must be counted."

well I bet the State of Michigan will be happy that Hillary rejected THEIR plan because she is worried about THEIR voters. It seems Hillary is now telling the State of Michigan they aren't doing enough to help their own voters.

wonder if the State of Michigan will be happy with hillary,

as I said else where

the State of Michigan rejected her proposal of as is and rejected Obama's of 50/50 they came up with their own which was a compromise. Obama accepted.

she did not, the number stays at 2,025 and its not Obama's fault. The State of Michigan came up with this proposal on their own to get their delegates seated and now Hillary is the one who is blocking it.

she is now arguing with the State of Michigan itself over the plan and Obama can sit back and say "we supported the plan that the State of Michigan came up with themselves" not his fault Hillary doesn't like MI's idea, and I bet MI is not happy that once again their attempts to get their delegates seated have now been stopped.

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Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Take-All

well that right there explains why she lost.

Times went over the 5 mistakes that the Clintons made

http://www.time.com/time/politics/articl e/0,8599,1738331,00.html

I think the 2 that really did it for her

2. She didn't master the rules
Clinton picked people for her team primarily for their loyalty to her, instead of their mastery of the game. That became abundantly clear in a strategy session last year, according to two people who were there. As aides looked over the campaign calendar, chief strategist Mark Penn confidently predicted that an early win in California would put her over the top because she would pick up all the state's 370 delegates. It sounded smart, but as every high school civics student now knows, Penn was wrong: Democrats, unlike the Republicans, apportion their delegates according to vote totals, rather than allowing any state to award them winner-take-all. Sitting nearby, veteran Democratic insider Harold M. Ickes, who had helped write those rules, was horrified -- and let Penn know it. "How can it possibly be," Ickes asked, "that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?" And yet the strategy remained the same, with the campaign making its bet on big-state victories. Even now, it can seem as if they don't get it. Both Bill and Hillary have noted plaintively that if Democrats had the same winner-take-all rules as Republicans, she'd be the nominee. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign now acknowledges privately:

3. She underestimated the caucus states
While Clinton based her strategy on the big contests, she seemed to virtually overlook states like Minnesota, Nebraska and Kansas, which choose their delegates through caucuses. She had a reason: the Clintons decided, says an adviser, that "caucus states were not really their thing." Her core supporters -- women, the elderly, those with blue-collar jobs -- were less likely to be able to commit an evening of the week, as the process requires. But it was a little like unilateral disarmament in states worth 12% of the pledged delegates. Indeed, it was in the caucus states that Obama piled up his lead among pledged delegates. "For all the talent and the money they had over there," says Axelrod, "they -- bewilderingly -- seemed to have little understanding for the caucuses and how important they would become."

By the time Clinton's lieutenants realized the grave nature of their error, they lacked the resources to do anything about it -- in part because:

make no mistake her Husband won TWICE under these rules, there is no excuse for her campaign NOT to be filled with people who 100% knew how to work this system. Bill should have been there explaining the importance of caucuses, at least he should have known.

to bad Penn was contracted so she has to pay that $4 million, because that man should not be allowed around Democratic politics again.

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that was a NEW endorsment, I am the FIRST to diary it

so who ever just warned me for making a NEW diary about a NEW endorsment that NO one else has made a diary yet since its for today, and once again I was FIRST. so warning me for making diaries that have NOT been posted before?

are we kidding here?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/s tory?id=3105288&page=1

Paul Kirk, Ex-DNC Chair And Superdelegate, To Endorse Obama

Speaking of math -- the Obama campaign rolls out another former DNC chairman's endorsement on Friday: Paul Kirk, a superdelegate who led the party from 1985-1989, is coming out for Obama -- a day after Andrew's switch, an Obama campaign official tells The Note. (And don't count on that being it for the day, as the dribble continues.)

so lets read the diaries and not just start deleting them THINKING we know what the diary said? ok?

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Yes, lets really look at the Electoral Map

before I begin let me say the next president will be a democrat, I don't care who I think part of the reason Hillary is fighting so hard is because she too knows who ever gets the nomination has a great chance to be president. This is just a bad year for the GOP brand 43% of voters in the new NBC poll said McCain's ties to Bush are more of a concern then 34% of the Obama-Wright connection. this is just not a good year for Democrats, so she really wants that nomination because hey This year is probably the easiest year democrats will ever have for the white house, but anways I digress.

to often I am told that this map: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Ob ama/Maps/Apr26.html

shows Hillary to be more electable, well lets really look at it.

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BHO Supporters please STOP, and take a step back

Guys before its any crazier please take a step back and stop. ok there is way to many innuendos and conspiracy theories going on, its bad enough we have to deal with it from them but not you too.

Yes the voter suppression story is important, but NOT because its connected to Hillary, and that is the point of those diaries, I think they should be deleted and re-written to not try and imply any wrong doing on Hillary's part.

yes, BOTH sides have some crazy supporters that do dumb things, yes it turns out this is the worst yet, but this is NO way reflects on Hillary Clinton or her Campaign, she or her campaign were not involved and just like with Wright we don't like candidates being judged on their associations do we?

and just like with Powers, a Candidate shouldn't be made to look bad for the actions of others.

MyDD is toxic, I get it, both sides can go to far and sometimes you get soo riled up you wanna get back at them. but this IS a gotcha and it is Character assination,

Yes Hillary knows people who have done illegal things (like Rezko) but it doesn't actually have anything to do with her until  an ACTIVE member of the campaign is tied to this

Re: What those people are doing is disgraceful. (none / 0)

nope its not, but sricki you were on the other side, you know how they are you tell me

if an organization made up of former obama aides, who had donated to his campaign, were behind the calls

what kinda diaries do you think we would see? you think Alegre would have a diary up saying this is no big deal its not Obama's fault?

Supes for 2,024 based on a C52-O48 split of the remaining 408 delegates: B.Obama - 62 H.Clinton - 194
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

    Re: What those people are doing is disgraceful. (none / 0)

   No, you're right -- we'd see tons of diaries about how evil Obama was for having supporters who would do such a thing. People would probably say he'd orchestrated the scam. No way to prevent that sort of thing. I would hope, however, that there would be reasonable Clinton supporters who would say, "This wasn't Obama's idea, and he was in no position to prevent it since he probably didn't know about it." I hope I would be one of the ones saying that, rather than one of the people jumping on the "GOTCHA!" bandwagon, which is all too popular these days.

   I am a member of the forgotten demographic: a young, educated, wine-drinking, latte-sipping Independent for Hillary Clinton.
    by sricki on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    [ Parent | Reply to This | ]

our candidate is running a different kind of campaign, I would expect his posters to try and change politics at ALL levels.

yes this story needs to be discussed and investigated but NOT as a way to hurt Hillary or her campaign, that is shameful and after what Obama just went through with Wright ALL democrats should be against it.

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[UPDATEx3]: Obama AND Clinton pick up Endorsements today!

yeah thats right another super that just doesn't get it, the supers are all going to move to Hillary now I know because they are like 5 diaries on MyDD proclaiming the end of Obama and that he just can't win.

but don't worry we are assured that eventually all these supers will flip to Hillary once.....um....well they are moving you know we just don't see it but anyways

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/obama_to_pick_up_endorse ment_o.php

The Obama campaign confirms that he will get the endorsement of Rep. Bruce Braley of Iowa today.

It's a key super-del get for Obama, because Braley's from a rural swing district and is a former Edwards backer, which could help defuse the talk that Obama is struggling with white working class voters.

Sources also confirm to me that Obama will roll out a second super-del -- and perhaps more on top of that -- later today.

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Clinton Backer: Florida & MI did not count

once again I say its pretty hard to convince the the DNC and uncomitted supers to seat FL and MI as is, when your own camp doesn't agree on what to do

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/25 /george-mcgovern-still-bac_n_98599.html

mer senator and Democratic presidential aspirant George McGovern says he sees some striking similarities when it comes to his run at the White House and that of Sen. Barack Obama. But ultimately, McGovern argues, Obama has organized a much wider political coalition and thus a greater chance of electoral success.

its best when Clinton backers say these things, 1) he is an announced Clinton backer, pretty hard for Carville to go on tv right now and call him a judas.

But McGovern, who lost the 1972 election to incumbent Richard Nixon by landslide margins, doesn't attribute his defeat to merely the contours of his political base. Indeed, he argues that his candidacy was damaged more by the infighting that occurred within the Democratic Party even after he had secured the nomination.

"After I had the nomination won and everything except the crowning at the convention, the other candidates that I had defeated in the primaries and the caucuses ganged up on me and spent the next month just bad mouthing me around the country," he said. "And, of course the Nixon people used some of the quotes and threw them back at me in the general election."

oh hey and he speaks about changing the rules mid way through

This, however, is not the only similarity McGovern draws between his run for the White House and the current process. In '72, after he won the California primary and clinched the nomination, McGovern's Democratic opponents argued that the delegation should have been rewarded on a proportional basis, rather than winner-take-all. It was, McGovern says, a changing of the rules in mid-game that resulted both in the weakening of his campaign and his limping into the convention. Thirty-six years later, he sees parallels with the Clinton campaign's push to count the results of the non-DNC-sanctioned Florida and Michigan primaries.
"We can't overturn those rules now that the counting is over," he said.

once again this is only 1 man's opinion but it is really hard to argue to seat FL and MI, when suppoters in your own camp don't agree with it.

If people who are supporting Hillary don't agree what about those Uncommitted supers who are hesitant to do so?

but what does he know about super delegates and their role in the process?

It's not the only process issue on which McGovern, who has endorsed Clinton, finds himself at varying odds with the New York Democrat. On the topic of superdelegates, which were created as a concession to the primary reforms that McGovern initiated, the South Dakotan argues that these party insiders must take into strong consideration the pledged delegate tally.

I think it means more when people who support Clinton say these things because its harder for other Clinton supporters to just dimiss it.

sorry but I think McGovern carries more weight then Alegre.

Despite these differences, McGovern is not backing away from his support of Clinton. He deems her "one of the most talented, articulate and well-informed people in the country," whom he has known for 35 years, since she worked on his campaign in Texas. And he expects her to stay in the race at least until the last primary commences in his home state. But in the interim, he hopes, the tone and tenor of the campaign will be ratcheted down a notch,

but hey if the supers and her own backers don't agree with her on FL and MI, whats the best course of action to get those supers on your side?

push the issue
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/st ory/507468.html

Despite Clinton's claims, Florida's status in picking the Democratic presidential nominee remains in question and the Pennsylvania contest did little to change that.

A spokesman for Clinton said the campaign is waiting for the Democratic National Committee to take up an appeal, filed on the state's behalf by committee member Jon Ausman, who argues that national party rules require at least half of the state's delegates to be seated.

It's unlikely the appeal will be considered before the last primaries are held on June 3. Nelson and U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings, who sued the party claiming that the DNC was disenfranchising voters, have accused the committee of keeping the appeal ``under a cloak of secrecy''.

But DNC spokeswoman Stacie Paxton said the co-chairs of the DNC's rules and bylaws are reviewing the recommendation and will make it public ``when they decide how to proceed.''

Other Florida Democrats -- led by Hillary Clinton supporters -- are turning to public protests to keep the pressure on the national party.

Rallies are planned Saturday in seven Florida cities, including Miami and Fort Lauderdale, to demand that the national party count Florida's delegates. Hundreds of activists are also expected to ride buses to Washington to rally Wednesday.

''This has to do with our civil rights,'' said Millie Herrera, a potential Clinton convention delegate and the president of the Hispanic Democratic Caucus of Florida. ``No one has the right to invalidate our votes.''

I am pretty sure the DNC supers who remember Terry helping them write the rules, remember Howard Ickes voting with them to strip them, and remember Hillary agreeing to honor their decision all want to jump to endorse her when they do stuff like this.

but we shall see what happens won't me.

p.s. magic number is at 62

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[UPDATED]:Ah Hagee, its alright, because you are white

I dunno you think we will see the same uproar over this one?

probably not, I mean I don't think the gay community minds to much right? or at least its not like John McCain sought out his endorsement right?

shrugs I guess its ok with me,

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/23/hage e-katrina-mccain/

On September 18, 2006, Pastor John Hagee -- whose endorsement Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said this past Sunday he was "glad to have" -- told NPR's Terry Gross that "Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.""New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God," Hagee said, because "there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came."

On his radio show yesterday, right-wing talker Dennis Prager asked Hagee to respond to "the various charges made against him" in a fact sheet put out by the Democratic National Committee. Asked about his comments on Hurricane Katrina, Hagee said "the topic of that day was cursing and blessing":

   HAGEE: Yes. The topic of that day was cursing and blessing. ... What happened in New Orleans looked like the curse of God, in time if New Orleans recovers and becomes the pristine city it can become it may in time be called a blessing. But at this time it's called a curse.

will you see this in the media? will anyone wonder how Hagee can speak so ill of a part of this country, of its citizens?
will their be news casts asking why Hagee hates America?

oh wait no he targeted the gay community not whites, but what Ayers did when Obama was 8 years old? THIS is important.

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No matter against who, I will Fight "McTruthyism"

I don't care if done against Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton or even John McCain stuff like this only hurts this country as a whole.

yeah yeah fair use but I couldn't find any good places to make cuts, so don't read it if you don't want to.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th e_daily_dish/2008/04/mctruthyism.html#mo re

I've been struggling somewhat to get a handle on some of the smearing now directed at Barack Obama. Some of it is politics as usual and nothing that one can get too upset about. It is the job of opposing campaigns to try and paint a picture or construct a narrative about an opponent that emphasizes their electoral weaknesses. And so arguing that Obama is "inexperienced" or "unvetted" or "liberal" is a completely legitimate, if somewhat depressing, strategy. He who drives the narrative wins the election. And a narrative about a biography is the most powerful there is.

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