What happens to Hillary if people think this is all for 2012?

let me start by saying I do NOT think she is doing this with eyes on 2012, and i think everyone who does think this is flat out wrong or just a conspiracy theorist.

but with that said....

I am noticing more and more that on blogs and what not people are beginning to say that Hillary is staying in only to ensure Obama loses so she can run in 2012 and save us from Mccain.


but lets be honest we don't have some of the smartest voters in this country and if something is repeated enough it starts to become the truth.

so what happens to Hillary if Obama does become the nominee and loses?

at this point is she setting herself up where for the next 4 years, anything Mccain does wrong would also be blamed on Hillary for killing Obama's chances?

I do not think that is what she is doing, but the idea is starting to spread so ignoring it won't do anything.

so thoughts?

Tags: 2012, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain (all tags)



Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i
The majority of the electorate isn't smart enough to make that connection. She'd be all set to come back in 2012 and say, "See. I told you to nominate me."
by Travis Stark 2008-03-25 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

ahh thats true.

hmmmm aren't we sooo lucky that the average voter is so damn well informed


by TruthMatters 2008-03-25 09:56AM | 0 recs

still, i don't know if she'd be willing to run against an incumbent, and there's no telling where the political environment will be in 2012, should mccain win.  because of that uncertainty, i think don't think she's looking towards 2012.  

by Doug Tuttle 2008-03-25 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

I think for either of them, this is it.  If the Dem nominee (whoever that is) loses in November, that's it.  Americans are very unforgiving and those politicians who try a second time are like news from last month.  Look no further than John Edwards. John Kerry didn't run again.

by cmugirl90 2008-03-25 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

I think thats a very good point, maybe for Hillary but Barack is young he can easily wait 20 years and try again. Hillary though I do think this is it, and is part of why she is fighting so hard.

by TruthMatters 2008-03-25 10:06AM | 0 recs
I agree

Same reason I think she would resist 2nd place on a ticket.  Course, never say never and all that fine wisdom....

by Revel 2008-03-25 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

This is Baracks one shot too.

He campaigned on freshness and he won't be fresh in 4 years.

Obama needs a accomplishment out of this cycle either VP or president.  The press won't baby him next time around.

by DTaylor 2008-03-25 10:26AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

That only applies to Democrats, not Americans. We can look at McCain and talk the other way. Republicans seem to be more forgiving to their candidates than Dems.

by Sandeep 2008-03-25 10:07AM | 0 recs
Excuse me...

Why write a diary about it, if you don't think it is true? It's ridiculous on its face, so why repeat smears that you don't think are true? It's kind of a funny backhanded way of promulgating nonsense.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-25 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse me...

because you won't beat it by pretending its not out there and letting it take root only to slowly bubble up.

by TruthMatters 2008-03-25 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary....2012?

My first thought was..."Blech, what a horrid strategy.  That worldwide disaster is set for December 2012.  Isn't anyone listening to the Mayans anymore?".../semi-snark...:-)

by Revel 2008-03-25 10:14AM | 0 recs
TuzlaGate = End of Hillary Campaign
Which planet are you living in?
TuzlaGate spells the end of the Clinton campaign.
Dishonesty = Untrustworthy = Not eligible to be Commander-in-Chief.
Hillary is History.
Janet Napotaliano for President in 2016. Our first woman president should not be a blatant lier, a Clinton, or both.
by igwealth5tm 2008-03-25 10:23AM | 0 recs
TuzlaGate = another "big nothing" issue

If Hillary "misspoke" or has been slow to defend herself on this, perhaps it's because she is delivering ideas about fixing our broken economy and other issues that matter to the citizenry, instead of engaging in the mudslinging so characteristic of her opponent.  

On her visit to Bosnia, First Lady Clinton went to army posts that were outside Tuzla.  She went there in blackhawk helicopter, and she did NOT take Sinbad along with her.  Ah yes Sinbad, the person who is an expert on all things Clinton.  Listen, CNN folks, you are quickly losing any reputation you might once have had as "Most Trusted Name in News".  Learn how to do RESEARCH.  

Associated Press, March 25, 1996:

  MARKOVICI, Bosnia-Herzegovina - PROTECTED BY SHARPSHOOTERS, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by BLACKHAWK HELICOPTER Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.

  "They're making a difference," the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia.  Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots. . . .

But the highlight of her trip were visits to TWO FORTIFIED POSTS OUTSIDE THE U.S. BASE IN TUZLA.   Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.

  The troops seemed to appreciate it: cameras chirped like a thousand crickets as she chatted with mine-disposal experts, examined huge tanks and met a hero or two. Chelsea, 16, kept her usual low profile but remained constantly at her mother's side, posing for soldiers or talking softly with them.

  Watching the first lady troop around in muted trench coat and pants, Sgt. Michael Tucker of Miami said, "She's a very important person. For her to take time to come and see us means a lot."

Another contemporaneous account:

  At a second outpost, Camp Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited a M.A.S.H. unit, the only full-service U.S. Army hospital in Bosnia. The three-hour tour of the FRONTLINES of the international peacekeeping mission were filled with the gritty reality of a military operation, a far cry from traditional first lady photo opportunities, and Mrs. Clinton seemed more than comfortable with that. CNN, 3/25/96

Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
RIFLEMEN RUSHED TO THE BRUSH LINE as the helicopter landed AND SURROUNDED HER AS SHE walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

  Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
   Lexis - By Ron Fournier,, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

Another report:

  The First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their FORTIFIED OUTPOSTS in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".

  Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 MILES EAST OF TUZLA, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A MACHINE GUN EMPLACEMENT GUARDED THE ENTRANCE of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
    After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

  Mrs Clinton, who LATER RETURNED TO TUZLA for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
   Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

by mnicholson0220 2008-03-25 11:01AM | 0 recs
The logic here a little too tortured,

and fails Occam's Razor.  The parsimonious explanation is that staying in because she wants to win and has a chance to win, in 2008.  The voters are voting for her, and we'll be darned lucky to have her rather than Obama, the biggest loser/albatross around our collective Democratic necks since Dukakis in 88.  

by mnicholson0220 2008-03-25 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: What if Hillary is gunning for 2012?

Her actions are absolutely consistent with positioning for 2012.  She will be too old to run in 2016 and she has probably lost this year. I posted this several days ago, and I believe it was the first post on it. (Hit me like a brick in the back of the head one day as I put the Clintons nuanced tactics together.)

How else can we explain all the radical tactics to destroy Obama's electability?  And her negative comparison of Obama to McCain.  That hurts the chances of the Democratic Party in the main election!  

The Clintons are among the few smart enough to know that you can do damaging things with impunity.  There is a reason they called him Teflon Bill.  Nothing sticks.  That has become one of their tactics as a result: Destroy Obama's electability and no one will blame the Clintons!  They will blame Obama!!!

Let's face it, the Clintons likely had something to do with searching up the Wright video (as they did with the Imus video) and alot of other things.  And now, just at the right moment today, she is attempting to EXTEND the issue quietly by remarking that she would not pick that pastor.  And this is a full week and a half after the incident.  She is not a passive observer in this issue.  Its all programmed.

Will enough people figure that out to drop her numbers?  No. Obama's numbers will drop from all the raw defensive emotion whipped up.  

But she knows the math: Obama in 2008 (95% likelihood).

So the end game is? 2012. Be smart, people, stare reality in the face.  

by Fichetail 2008-03-25 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: What if Hillary is gunning for 2012?

Oh, I forgot one part of this master strategy! The Republican opponent!

Reasons he will be weak in 2012:

1) The 100-year war he will be waging and likely complications.

2) His age: the oldest person to take office as President, with a health history that is not unblemished.

You think they are above that?  

Who's a Machiavellian out there?

by Fichetail 2008-03-25 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if people think this i

interesting diary...

funny because d**chey chris matthews had a whole segment on this yesterday stating that this was HRC's intention.  no fact - just bash, bash, bash.

its funny because i think that someone should write a diary about how BO is doing the same thing - trying to bloody HRC for a run in 2012!  any takers?

by canadian gal 2008-03-25 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if this is for 2012?

Canadian gal,

Less likely as a strategy for Obama, because he was far in the lead with the strategy began, and, her numbers had improved vs. him since the bashing began.  If he were running the strategy, its not going well.

by Fichetail 2008-03-25 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: What happens to Hillary if this is for 2012?

i dont know what you mean...  

"he was far in the lead with the strategy began, and, her numbers had improved vs. him since the bashing began.  If he were running the strategy, its not going well."

while his numbers have gone done in recent days - there have been a variety of factors at work, wright, naftagate etc.  

that being said - all this posturing is meant to demonize HRC, while not applying the same standard to BO.

IMO - posturing is nonsense - but if it wont (and lets be real it wont stop) lets apply the same standard to both candidates.

by canadian gal 2008-03-25 12:32PM | 0 recs

talk about jumping the gun...don't you seriously think at this point - after 14 months or so of this...she's focused on winning THIS election???

by nikkid 2008-03-25 04:19PM | 0 recs


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