Obama, Wright and Character

Obama's speech did not address the substance of what is behind his association with Rev. Wright. The point is: this pastor preached anti-american hate, anti-white hate, and anti-semitic hate. And Obama was a close and strong member of his congregation for over 20 years. And Rev. Wright was Obama's spiritual counselor. This goes directly to the issue of Obama's judgement and character.

My problem with Obama is not about whether he can win the general election. But rather if I want this man, with his close association with Rev. Wright, to be our president. There have been 43 presidents of the US. Some great, some bad. But not one of them would of sat through a sermon listening to a preacher spred anti-american hate. Not once. Not for 20 years. None would have selected that pastor's church as his own. None would given that preacher $20,000 after knowing that man for 20 years. None would have repeatedly brought his children to hear the pastor. And everyone one of them would have had the guts to stand up to Wright and tell him what they thought. Obama never did this. And Obama never explained why.

Tags: judgement, obama, patriotism, Wright (all tags)

Comments

95 Comments

Re: Obama, Wright and Patriotism

Instead Obama plagiarized Bill Clinton's earlier speech on race relations.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:20AM | 0 recs
True Red Republican

"this pastor preached anti-american hate, anti-white hate, and anti-semitic hate"

"sermon listening to a preacher spred anti-american hate. Not once. Not for 20 years"

Sean Hannity is that You?

Seriously - where do you get these "facts"?

You conflate 3-4 YouTube "clipettes" with 30 years worth Sunday sermons?

Prove to me that Rev Wright preached "hate" or "anti-american" sermons. Did you really listen to 1500 Sunday's worth of Sermons or are you just a Right-Winger spewing Talking Points?

"Anti-Semite"  - ok you are Sean Hannity aren't you? I expected outright lies from the "right" but not from a "true blue dem".

Intellectually Dishonest? or just Lying?

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

Those were clips of his sermons that his church sold on the internet. We don't know the extant of his hate, that is for sure.

But my point is simple. This is not a matter of race at all. This is a matter of character and judgement. Why did Obama not have the guts to stand up to Wright and correct him? Would an Obama fan please explain this.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

Do you assume that Wright started off his sermons with 'God Damn America' every Sunday?

Until you can point to "20 years" of hate as a fact and not just spew a Bill O'Reilly Talking Point, you are as foul as any Republican.

You have no proof but want to fatally damage the Democratic Nominee for President based on lies and innuendo?

How about Hillary SLEEPING with a man who stabbed her in the BACK several times over the course of her Marriage to Bill. Is that good Judgement or just blind Ambition?

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

We have plenty of proof of what Wright said. Saying these are just part of a larger tapestry of something else is just missing the point.

Wright said these anti-american sermons. He filmed them. And then sold them on the interent.

Seriously, if you go to a Jerry Falwell type church, do you expect to hear an hour of hate. No, you hear a few comments about hate, maybe once a month. Just enought to let you know what they really think. The same goes with Wright.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican
You want 20 years of proof? Here is a real start. In 1984 Reverend Wright took it upon himself to visit Gadhafi in Libya with none other than Louis Farrakhan leader of the Nation of Islam.
Wright also told The New York Times in an interview published March 6 2007:
"When his (Obama's) enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli" with Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to visit Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, "a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell."

At the time of the visit Gadhafi was the equivalent to Osama Bin Laden.
There is a real attempt to try and sugar coat Rev. Wright  but he has been a radical for at least 25 years. So when Wright says "God Damn AmeriKKKA" that is exactly what he has been doing for a quarter of a century by consorting with our enemies, sympathizing with radical Muslims and befriending Black Muslim separatists like Louis Farrakhan. This is not information from some right wing conspiracy this is fact.
Now the PR spin out of Obama land is too somehow sugar coat him while making him unavailable for comment.
by coolofthenight 2008-03-24 11:31AM | 0 recs
I think you call that

"for better or worse". And as to your earlier comment, Yes, a lot of people can and do equate 3-4 clippettes with 30 years worth of sermons. It doesn't matter if these clips are the only ones over 30 years, and the rest of them were all sunshine and light. What matters is that he said this stuff at all, and from the pulpit no less.

by georgiapeach 2008-03-24 02:57PM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

I'd be happy to do so.

Wright's sermons are nearly all publicly available, and if you read through them you'll find they're not all full of 'hate'.  In fact, if you read the full sermons those 'hateful' snippets were taken from, you get a totally different perspective, and you understand fully why the several thousand Black, White, Latino, and Asian congregants listening to Wright's sermons didn't think they were horrible racist rantings.

Most of what Wright said was right (though perhaps somewhat blunt), or it was taken out of context.  The 'chickens coming home to roost' comment for example wasn't even something Wright was saying, it was something he was quoting that had been said the week before by an American ambassador.  The sermon in which he said the stuff about Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't about hating America, it was a said in a sermon calling on his flock to reject violence, hate, and revenge.  

I've read and watched these sermons, and I'll happily defend most of the stuff people are calling 'hate' and 'anti-American', because those claims are based on lies and ignorance.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

What the heck. Wright's "God D*mn America" is part of some larger message. Give me a break. I don't care if he spent the rest of the hour talking about gardening. Why the heck would he say "God D**n America" over and over again. And why did Obama not have the guts to publicly reject this stance.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

Do you actually want to know what the sermon was about?  Do you actually want to know why he said that?  What the context was?  

I have a feeling you don't.  Just let me know though, I'd be happy to explain.  I might even post the sermon for you to read since your reactions to it are obvious grounded in willful ignorance of the sermon as a whole.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

Nice - A troll rating but Not a Rebuttal.

That's all you got?

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: True Red Republican

That's all. I think this is a deal breaker for most voters out there. But maybe, Obama does not care. He can unify a good 20% of the population.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:12AM | 0 recs
Gather around kids

another dose of kool aid. Things are really jumping today in my pretty pony world, where up is down and lies are truth and reality is nothing but unicorns and rainbows for their favorite candidate.

by munodi 2008-03-24 10:39AM | 0 recs
This is becoming

McCarthyism.

Bill Clinton was not and I reject the Obama campaign's characterization of Bill Clinton.

But this diary and several comments I have seen is among the lowest of the low smears.

Sounds like you came from Rush Limbaugh.

by TomP 2008-03-24 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: This is becoming

These are my feelings. I would like Obama to explain his relationship just once. None of us is asking the question about race. I am not. I am simply asking how could Obama sit through those sermons for 20 years. That is all.

And, Bill Clinton gave a very similar speech on race relations in the 90's.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:28AM | 0 recs
He Didn't - but Hannity says he did so you do

Come on now - I can't stress enough just how readily you people are repeating the Right Wing's Talking Points.

20 years of hate? Really???

That's ridiculous.

Are you also going to say his children sat there and listened to "anti-white" "anti-sematic" preaching for 20 years?

Damn. I didn't realise how easy some democrats are willing to Spew Limbaugh's Talking Points.

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:35AM | 0 recs
Playing too many games.

I have not endorsed Obama or Clinton, but too much of this right wing drivel as you spread will push me to Obama's camp.

You are lying by attempting to say that a few sound bites were all Rev. Wright said for 20 years.

Your attacks are false and as bad, or worse, then the few Obama supporters' attacks on Hillary Clinton based in Bill's sex life.

Please crawl back unde rthe Republican rock from whence you emerged.

Senator Clinton would reject the sliming you are doing.

by TomP 2008-03-24 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing too many games.

Tom P.

Thanks for your comment. But I am not a Republican. And I have news for you. I am not remotely alone among Democrats and their feelings about Wright.

Let me explain. Obama selected Wright as his pastor. He was active in his church. Obama's book was named after one of Wright's speeches. Obama was clearl listening.

Wright's church sold these DVD's online. They filmed this anti-american hate. And then they sold it. We don't know the extent of this speeches, and how bad they got.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:39AM | 0 recs
"don't know the extent of this speeches"

and apparently you don't want to.

Not Knowing allows you to Spew Lies without acknowledging to yourself that your are Lying.

You are no better than Pat Buchanan at this point:

BUCHANAN:  You say a debate is going on.  Most of the guys I know, when they say they hear that guy, we don`t want to talk to you.  You go ahead and mouth off.  We don`t want to hear from you.  

MADISON:  Then don`t join Jeremiah`s church.  

BUCHANAN:  We want to know why a guy did and sat there for 20 years and wants to be our president.  

MADISON:  Then I suggest you go to the church and listen to a full sermon.  

BUCHANAN:  I don`t need to hear anymore than that.  

MADISON:  There`s your problem, close minded.  What did he just say; I don`t need to hear it.  

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:50AM | 0 recs
"don't know the extent of this speeches"

Let me repeat what Wright said: "God D**n America" over and over again. And through is some anti-semitic and anti-white comments. And you try to defend this as just a small part of larger theme?

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I suppose Obama could read the diary and surmise that it's just 'a typical white person's' response to his having sat thru so many years of such stuff.

by emsprater 2008-03-24 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I actually dont see this as a race issue at all. The GOP candidates and, for that matter, the Dems before the 60's had their racist friends and preachers. But, none of them, had an anti-american preacher for 20 years. Remember, Obama picked Wright to be his preacher. Obama did not just fall into this church.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

We can not give a Democrat a free pass when we hold the GOP accountable for what they say.  I have zero tolerance for any sort of religious clergy, who has a pulpit, saying stuff that is anti-American.

We cry foul when Dobson, Falwell, Robertson et al, say these things.  We should cry foul when Dems say it as well.

By not doing so, we will come off as hypocrites.

I agree with the diarist.

by kydem 2008-03-24 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I totally agree with you. It is very two faced of the Obama supporters to say the Wright controversy is off limits because it is too controverial.

But my point is larger than that. This has nothing to do with race relations at all. Obama is using the race talk as a shield to prevent him from answering the simple question: Why they heck was he sitting there for 20 years supporting this preacher? Why did he not have guts to say: "Hey, America is not as bad as you say."

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Wright wasn't saying America was bad, and if you listened to more than a 10 second clip of any of these sermons you'd know that.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 11:03AM | 0 recs
They'd Rather Vote McCain

than educate themselves about what really was said by Rev Wright.

Upstanding Democrats!

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Give me a break. Have you listen to these speeches. They are filled with anti-american hate.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

So when are you going to define what a true American is. You keep avoiding giving us your definition.

by munodi 2008-03-24 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I have listened to them.  You have said you haven't.  

You really want to talk about what he said?  Go read them in full.  Till then you're just displaying your ignorance.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character
i may regret this....
but...
how many hours of speeches, committee meetings, voting statements, books, etc.,  have you read of Hillary's? not even a Hillary supporter or spiritual mentor...Hillary??
if you haven't read, watched or heard them all then i daresay you cannot have decided against her already, right?
by jentwisl 2008-03-24 12:36PM | 0 recs
Guess there'll be no black President then

So in other words, you're "not ready" to vote for an African American. Because the black religious experience in this country is to speak prophetically about God's judgment on this nation for racism. And yes, that includes Martin Luther King, who called America a nation of war criminals in 1968.

by elrod 2008-03-24 04:13PM | 0 recs
When's Hillary's Big Speech On Race and Religion?

Romney did it.

Obama did it.

The issue just keeps growing.

OK, you think it's that important?

Time for Hillary to step up to the plate.

by bernardpliers 2008-03-24 10:32AM | 0 recs
Hillary's Big Speech On Race and Religion?

I don't think the Wright issue is about race. It is about judgement and character. Why did Obama not stand up to Wright and his anti-american speech?

The race and religion issue is just a shield from answering the true questions here. The way I see it, either Obama has very, very bad judgement, or agrees with part of Wright is preaching.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:45AM | 0 recs
Oooo, struck a nerve there!

Of course, if it's about "judgement and character," then she can give the "husband speech."

by bernardpliers 2008-03-24 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Big Speech On Race and Religion?

Judgment and character is standing up for a man who is being swiftboated by racists like yourself, and elevating the discourse on race to a level never before done. Go back to Hannityland and preach to the choir of vapid bigots who whine about flag pins but know nothing of genuine patriotism. That you would push this line at all shows you left the Democratic Party around the time George Wallace was shot.

by elrod 2008-03-24 04:15PM | 0 recs
Good thing you posted this.

It hasn't been discussed here before.

Neither has the story about Clinton's desciption of her trip to Tuzla and the reality the video shows.

Please. We need more diaries on these pressing subjects.

By the way, today the 4,000th American was killed in Iraq.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-24 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Good thing you posted this.

I agree!!

And this 'preacher'.  How DARE he examine the behavior of AMERICA against Christ's teachings!  For shame.  I mean, it's clear he HATES AMERICA because we tracked down a few 10 second video snippets out of his 30 year preaching history.

And because we need more answers, let's also revisit the time Obama spent at the madrasa.  EXPLAIN YOURSELF, BARACK!!

by neonplaque 2008-03-24 10:39AM | 0 recs
Yes, by all means, cite Krauthammer.

Or Sean Hannity. He'll do, too. By the way, Bill Kristol also wrote a similar piece in the Times. You should go garb that link while you're at it.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-24 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, by all means, cite Krauthammer.

Bob, your back!!!

Hey just because FOX news says the US is great - does not mean it is not.

There is a real issue here of Obama's judgement and character. Not race. But character and judgement.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:48AM | 0 recs
Like, I said, if you really want to make your case

... you may as well cite Hannity, too.

Right?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-24 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, by all means, cite Krauthammer.

Not really.

What specifically is it you think he will do wrong or badly once president?  Please, be as specific as you possibly can.  B/c what you are committing right now is character assassination through association.    

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-24 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character
Stop the innuendo. Come out and say what's on your mind.
If you think a man breast fed by a white mother, raised in a white household by his white mother and white grand parents is somehow anti white please come out and say it.
Of course no one would ever ask that directly because it would be absurd and laughable given Obamas back ground.
by joachim 2008-03-24 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

My post has nothing to do with race. The only people here talkikng about race are the Obama supporters. I am talking about Obama's judgement and character.

Why did he not have the courage to stand up to Wright and say, "America is not as bad as you say it is."

That is all.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Uh, he specifically said that he did exactly that, from the day that he met Wright.  But he also said that there is much more to the guy then a few clips on Youtube, something which you and others who are looking to tear Obama down don't seem to be able to grasp.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-24 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

So, privately he had the guts to tell Wright what his true feelings were. But publicly he supported him, brought his family to his church, named his book "Audacity of Hope" after Wright, gave him $20,000 last year, and selected Wright as his spiritual mentor.

Man that shows some real courage.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

So when are you going to define what a true American is. You keep avoiding giving us your definition.

by munodi 2008-03-24 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Here is a comment I posted on another thread.  It specifically addresses the issue of the racial resentment expressed by Wright, but the same pretty much goes for the lapel-pin patriotism.  Real patriots work to make this country live up to rhetoric.

"Your apparent inability to differentiate racism, as a system of oppression and exploitation, from the race resentment of those who are the victims of racism, suggests that you need to do a little Sociology 101.  

What you are doing is "blaming the victim."  In effect you are saying, "how dare those uppity Negroes get upset about the 400 year history of racism in this country."  

Hopefully, we will eventually get to a race blind society, but 400 years of history can not be erased with the wave of your hand. Racial resentment on the part of blacks should be understood for what it is: a natural step in the process towards fulfilling MLK's dream of the day when we are all judged by the content of our character. I suspect that AAs have to be fully empowered before they can fully put this  resentment aside.

It is absurd to paint Obama who has literally spent his life trying to understand and bridge the gap between the races as a racist.  This kind of "guilt by association" attack is to be expected from Republicans.  It is deeply disturbing coming from a Democrat."

by upper left 2008-03-24 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Ex-Democrats now apparently. They won't vote for the Democratic Nominee.

They'll only vote for Clinton. It's the "Clinton" party or nothing. Personally, I think they are afraid of a strong Black Man in the White House.

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Could be.

I think this hyped 'Rev Wright' issue, and the outrage over the 'typical white american' comment is just giving some the cover they need.  They don't want to deal with their own ingrained prejudices so it's easier to scream 'anti-american' at Rev Wright or 'racist' at Obama.

Many of these people really don't want to put a black (or half-black) man in the White House, and pretending they can't see the forest for the trees is their way to justify not voting for him.

by neonplaque 2008-03-24 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Upper Left,

This is nuts. Race can not explain everything in Obama's life. One has to take responsibility once and a while for ones actions. He can't simply state that all his faults are a result of America's race relation problems, and that we should overlook them.

I repeat, this has nothing to do with race. Why did Obama not forcefully object during 20 years of Wright's sermons?

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

So by your reasoning you are pro slavery, think the genocide of American Indians and internment of the Japanese was the right thing to do. And please define what you consider a true American.

by munodi 2008-03-24 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Please start answering the question. And please stop attacking as a way to answer every question. Obama has not answered the fundamental question brought out by Wright.

Where was Obama's courage when Wright denounced America?

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:21AM | 0 recs
did Obama not forcefully object during 20 years

Why did he have to? You still REFUSE, or can't, point out what you base that statement on.

You base it on 3-4 YouTube clipettes.

You can argue all you want that this might make him less "electable" -that is an honest arguement.

But to suggest that this RIGHT-WING attack is valid is disgusting.

Do you really believe what the right is force feeding you?

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

1) Have you read "Dreams From My Father"?  I highly recommend it.  In fact, I think it should be required reading for every white person who wants to make comments about race.

2)"One has to take responsibility once and a while for ones actions."  Obama joined his Church because it was a place where he could explore and understand the black side of his heritage.  He was trying to fit into the black community after being in a family of all white people.  He was also trying to lay the foundation for a political career in Chicago.  Trinity was considered an upbeat, hopeful, progressive place.  Over the last two decades he has put down roots.  Why is this hard to understand?

3)  Wright's comments were taken entirely out of context.  Would you care to be judged as a person for the three most extreme comments you have made in the past 30 years?  I know I would not.  I find it very telling that so many are willing to cut him no slack whatsoever and even more telling that you are willing to hold Obama responsible for statements that are clearly not consistent with his underlying values.  Guilt by association only goes so far.

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Upper Left,

Were not you talking about Gerldine Ferraro earlier?

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

When are you going to define what you believe to be a true American??????

by munodi 2008-03-24 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

I posted only one comment about Ferraro.  Here it is so you can judge for yourself if you think I am being inconsistent:

Re: Where are the HRC supporters (none / 0)

I was astonished the other day to hear Ferraro interviewed on NPR, she was over the top.  She belittled Obama and his supporters.  I couldn't believe the tone of her comments.  I was surprised and saddened.  I thought it was so great when Mondale picked her in 1984....too bad she hasn't gone on to accomplish more.

Amazing how few HRC supporters have dropped by to distance themselves from this nasty, fetid little comment.  Come on people, when your surrogates are offensive you should at least have the decency to disavow their comments.  Your silence looks like agreement or at least acceptance.

When JJ Jr. put his foot in his mouth I said it was insensitive and politically stupid.  Powers resigned for her stupid slip of the tongue.  Where is the equivalent outrage?

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Another thing that shows an extreme amount of ignorance regarding history and the Black Church is the fact that many African American Churches (AME) served not just as places of worship but places to discuss politics.  

African Americans were not allowed to speak of such things in public and they were forced to use their Churches as a place to organize and to vent.  It's this history that so many WHITE Americans are ignorant to.  

People need to put all of this into a historical context.

I've witnessed teachings that I did not agree with but I certainly don't storm out of a building because of something I don't want to hear.  And many of the snippets WERE taken out of context.  I feel this issue is just being used as a wedge from a desperate campaign.

by Ellinorianne 2008-03-24 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Thanks for deepening my point.

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:24AM | 0 recs
My Pleasure

It shows how much some people take for granted the privilege they get from being what color they are.  There are men and women alive today who have not so distant relatives who feared for the lives for being even a little political, it's not that long ago and the signs of that will not go away so easily.

by Ellinorianne 2008-03-24 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Put Hillary in Obama's shoes. Would you defend her if Wright had been her close associate, mentor, spiritual advisor, and pastor for 20 years?

by grlpatriot 2008-03-24 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

The point is precisely that the situation is not equivalent.  

Racist comments from white people have to be seen in a different context than expressions of black anger.  Why is this hard for so many to understand?

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

I get it. Hillary has to be held to a higher standard because of ... why exactly is that?

I am tired of this race issue. To me Wright has nothing to do with Race. And everything to do with Obama's judgment and character. Why did he not have the courage to publicly denounce Wright's preaching for 20 years?

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: This has everything to do with race....

"I am tired of this race issue. To me Wright has nothing to do with Race. And everything to do with Obama's judgment and character."

Your comment suggest just why you do not "get it."  Black people are tired of the race thing too.  They are tired of being on the receiving end of FOUR HUNDRED YEARS OF RACISM.  

It has only been one generation since blacks got effective voting rights.

It has only been one generation since Jim Crow ended.

Urban blacks are still concentrated in neighborhoods that are the result of "redlining", segregation, and restrictive covenants.

Urban blacks are still left with sub-standard schools.

Urban blacks have been cut-off from employment opportunities that have led to spread of a dangerous and dysfunctional drug culture.

Go listen to Wright's sermons, his comments are about race.  Given this fact, how can you say this has nothing to do with race?

Let me repeat my question:  HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE?

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:40AM | 0 recs
This has everything to do with race....

What does this have to do with the Clinton's? Or for that matter, this nomination?

We should be talking about who will make a great president. My concerns about Obama in my dairy are about courage, character and judgement. That is all.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: This has everything to do with race....

You said that Obama being a member of Trinity and choosing to renounce Wright's words without renouncing Wright personally is a matter of character.  

I agree with you, but you cannot evaluate his decision, ff you do not put Wright, his comments, and Obama's racial identity all in context.

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

So when are you going to define what a true American is. You keep avoiding giving us your definition.

by munodi 2008-03-24 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Repeating wing-nut memes

Had she not heard any remarks of that sort, of course I would. Were there more than ample proof to show that she hadn't, of course I wouldn't expect her to have disassociated with someone she had no idea to have said any such things.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-24 11:26AM | 0 recs
You are a Bigot

I'm surprised Jerome allows such hate-speech on his site.

MyDamnedDisgrace.com

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: You are a Bigot
I'm surprised Jerome allows such hate-speech on his site.

Whatever it takes to push HRC into the nomination, don't you know?
by neonplaque 2008-03-24 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character
haha...
Yes Obama hates his white mother and white grand parents who raised him.
Pretty soon you'll rumors of Obamas mother was not really white will start..lol
by joachim 2008-03-24 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Before you throw stones why don't you look into your candidates relationship with "The Family". It's a right wing prayer group in Washington. Big book coming out soon so watch out, you may just be thrown from your my pretty pony and land right back in the world of reality.

by munodi 2008-03-24 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I love how Obama answers his critics: by bringing up dirt about the Clinton's. Lets see, is there anything I dont know about the Clintons that the right wing has not already discussed. No.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I don't see this as a race issue at all. There are plenty of all white and all black churches. The question is about his anti-american sermons. And his other hate filled sermons.

By the way, I am a sinking feeling there are a lot more sermons out there. This is just the tip of a slow dripping water torture. A sermon a week come this fall.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 10:52AM | 0 recs
Still Lying I see

You have no proof of "20 years Hate" but you still repeat it over and over.

I hear that one of the Fox & Friends Host's might be quitting. Perhaps you should audition?

by Pissoff 2008-03-24 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

True Blue, you raise good points and to ignore them doesn't make them go away (although I can see here that some wish they would). Obama's relationship with Wright is a concern for many Americans (that includes Democrats). Both Hillary and Obama have negatives that will be revisited in the general election. Obama's are just now coming out (more will come); Hillary's are known. I think Hillary has more negatives than Obama does; however, the negatives that Obama does have seem to register more negatively with the voter. Wright is an example of this. Ultimately, Democrats need to determine which candidate (Hillary or Obama) will be able to overcome their negatives and the RAM in the general election and win against McCain.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-24 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

The latest polls suggest that this issue is already fading among Dems.  The Repubs will not doubt try to bring this up in the summer or early fall, but I think there is a real question about how much this will resonate, or how hard they will be able to ride this issue without generating a backlash from independents and the media.

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Upper Left,

This is not about Polls and electability. But rather who is the best person to be president. Period.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Which is why I support Obama.  

READ HIS BOOK "DREAMS FROM MY FATHER."  

It is a true window to his soul. He is brilliant, thoughtful, honest, and posesses a remarkable sense of self.

by upper left 2008-03-24 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I take a man' actions, versus his words, as a true window on his soul. Obama sat through 20 years of anti-american hate, anti-white hate, and anti-semitic hate. And he strongly supported that preacher with his own money. Those are some pretty strong actions.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

How many times are you going to post this same comment?

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

My words seem to bounce off of you.  I have tried to engage you in a substantive discussion about the need to differentiate between white racism and black anger.  You seem unwilling or unable to grasp this basic point.

Is the problem that you don't understand my argument or that you don't believe there is any difference?

by upper left 2008-03-25 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

grlpatriot,

Great points about vetting. But to me, this is a little deeper. Do I want Obama to be president after his very close association with Wright? How can you sit there and listen to your pastor say anti-american hate and not stand up and contest these comments. And how can you keep coming back to that church.

This is about courage to publicly do the right thing during anytime in the last 20 years.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Do you consider any statement that is critical of the United States to be unpatriotic.

Was it unpatriotic for the abolitionists to oppose slavery?

Was it unpatriotic for women to want the vote?

Was it unpatriotic to refuse to sit in the back of the bus?

I hope you get my point.  Wright is criticizing the foreign policy of the United States and the ongoing unequal treatment received by AAs.  His use of "GD America" was a rhetorical flourish that has over the top and offensive to most Americans, but it is simplistic in the extreme to conclude from this statement that Wright "hates" America.  He is fighting for social justice and trying to change the country so that it lives up to its own rhetoric.  Can you not see this?  

by upper left 2008-03-25 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Upper Left,

Thanks for your reply. But, these examples you give dont fall under the category of what Wright said. He was clearly full of hate, against America, Whites and Jews. This was not a civil rights movement, or a movement for women´s rights. This was a hate speech.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-25 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

This is a good dairy.

To add to the discussion, here the concluding paragraph from Rodrequez today, a liberal writer fom the LAT:

"But just maybe the complexity of race in contemporary America no longer requires the massive collective action it did half a century ago when blacks in the South were living under Jim Crow, a legal apartheid. Just maybe we don't have to suffer through yet another national debate on race -- President Clinton launched his fruitless Initiative on Race in 1997 quoting, as Obama did, the preamble to the Constitution. Just maybe more progress will be made if average, fair-minded, decent people simply chose not to associate with -- and lend their credibility to -- haters, extremists or sowers of racial discord. Obama could have taken that simple path any time over the last 20 years. He chose not to. Now it's too late."

by Caliman 2008-03-24 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Caliman,

That is an excellent article in the LA Times. My feeling exactly. This election is not abut race. But about selecting the best president of the US. That is all. We really need a great president right now.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

So when are you going to define what a true American is. You keep avoiding giving us your definition.

by munodi 2008-03-24 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

A true American is defined by one self. To me, it is about courage to do the right thing, and stand up for your country when it is wrongly attacked. Please explain how "God D*mn America" does not fit under this category.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

On the extremely off chance that you're actually serious and aren't just repeating things you already know to be wrong:

Wright is not a racist. He doesn't preach anti-white hate in terms of hating individual white people. Many, many white people have attended TUCC services, and none of them have reported feeling uncomfortable. He doesn't preach anti-American hate; he has preached hate for the bad in America. He has not preached anti-semitic hate; he does have views the consequences of our involvement with Israel that a lot of people disagree with.

Rev. Wright has extremely high marks as a spiritual leader and teacher. The vast majority of his sermons were highly uplifting. Even the ones that have been played -- the ones with the inflammatory statements in question -- are overall inspiring and spiritual, with some highly negative material included.

There are only 4 or 5 of these sermons. It is a virtual certainty that Obama was not in the church for any of them. Any comments about "20 year relationships" need to be taken in the context of a 20-year relationship in which you see the person being a good, spiritual person for those 20 years and missed the 5 times or so out of thousands that he went off the rails.

TUCC in general and Rev. Wright in particular have done a great deal of good in the Chicago area. They do a great deal of charity work, social services, etc, and of course there's the spiritual uplift as well.


There have been 43 presidents of the US. Some great, some bad. But not one of them would of sat through a sermon listening to a preacher spred anti-american hate. Not once. Not for 20 years. [...] None would have repeatedly brought his children to hear the pastor.

Nor would have Obama. He never did. And he didn't give "that preacher" $20,000 either; he gave TUCC $20,000. TUCC does an awful lot of charity work and needs the money. It's not like it went to fund Rev. Wright's lavish personal lifestyle (it's apparently very modest, actually).


And everyone one of them would have had the guts to stand up to Wright and tell him what they thought. Obama never did this. And Obama never explained why.

Actually, according to everything we know about this, Obama did in fact stand up to Wright and told him exactly what he thought of it, when he became aware of it. He's been very clear that he rejects and denounces Wright's extreme statements and inflammatory language.

Yet, Wright has done a tremendous amount of good for a very long time. He's been Obama's spiritual (not political, not social-gospel, not "hated and racism", but spiritual) mentor. Should Obama have thrown someone like that under the bus? Why? What good would that serve?

There's a seminary up in Dallas named Brite Theological Seminary. They're honoring Wright in a week or so. The leaders of the seminary went back over all the controversial sermons after the story broke big and decided that they made no difference; that they did not tarnish the enormous legacy of Wright or make him unworthy of honors. These are people whose job it is to train and evaluate ministers. Brite is not an African-American seminary, it's predominately white. It's not a bunch of fire-breathing radicals, it's pretty mainstream.

If they have no problem with Wright on a spiritual basis, I find it hard to argue that anyone else should.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-24 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Texas Grey Wolf (great name by the way),

My concerns about Wright have nothing to do with racism. But rather about courage to do the right thing. And the judgement of Obama for being an active member of Wright's congregation for 20 years without publicly denouncing Wright's anti-american positions.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

They aren't anti-American, and you have continually backed down from any and all efforts to educate yourself about what the sermons actually said.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-24 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

Did you even read Texas Grey's comment before posting this reply?

He/She debunked your assertions, yet you turned around and asked the same question again.  That's not an encouraging open dialog.

by neonplaque 2008-03-24 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

I did read it. I still dont buy it. Obama should have publicly stood up to Wright years ago. Not privately where no one heard it. As for Wright´s good works, I am not contesting it. But, I am simply pointing out his hate speech toward the US. And that Obama should not have tolerated it, or gave the appearance of tolerating it. The commander in chief is not a senator, or a governor. But the head of state for the US.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-25 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama, Wright and Character

4mydddog,

Excellent points. Again, my real problem with Obama and Wright is why did Obama not have the courage, at any time in the last 20 years, to stand up and confront Wright on his anti-american hate. It is about courage, character and judgement.

by True Blue Dem 2008-03-24 11:42AM | 0 recs

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