Sen. Clinton can win this thing (New and Improved)

I am not actually saying I believe that is about to happen, I am a supporter of Sen. Obama and so I kind of need to believe that he will win the nomination.  And, I believe he will win in the General Election as well.  That is just the disclaimer, now on to the diary.

It is not even difficult to imagine the scenario where Sen. Clinton becomes the nominee.  How hard is it to see the contest going all the way to the convention?  If that happens, as has been pointed out numerous times, no one will have enough pledged delegates to win so "super delegates" will be the deciding factor.  Super delegates can vote however the feel thus it will be as easily possible for Sen. Clinton to be the nominee as it will be for Sen. Obama.  

My question in all this is, how are Sen. Clinton, her campaign, and her supporters going to unite the party?  There has been a lot of viciousness and acrimony thrown about during this campaign, by both sides.  The fact is to some extent everyone who has staked out any territory in this contest probably has resentments.  Both sides have legitimate reason to feel angry and indignant.  I won't talk for any one but myself, I won't soon forget being called part of a cult, nor being told how naïve I am.  I'm over fifty so you can call me out of touch, but I am over a quarter of a century past naïve.  

Frequently I have seen the question "what will Sen. Obama do to heal-the-rift with Sen., Clinton and her supporters" posed, but I wonder what Sen. Clinton and her supporters intend to do when their candidate takes the nomination?  One huge specific question is of course how does Sen. Clinton get the African American vote back?  It seems to me that not getting to vote for a "Black President" is going to seem just as disappointing as not getting to vote for a "Woman President".

PS Just so it is clear THIS IS NOT SNARK SERIOUSLY, so don't bother to post that question more than 20 times.

(Update) Looks like the number one choice for reconciliation, I'm calling it sooner than the networks on election night, is Put Sen. Obama on the ticket as VP. My favorite so far though is offer to put him on the supreme court. I honestly may like the idea of Barack Obama as Supreme Court Justice better than President. Of course it's his life so he gets a say in it and so does fate. -TD-

Tags: Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

You don't have to worry because she's not going to win the nomination.  

by ProfessorReo 2008-05-29 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

pick obama as vp

thats the first act

by lori 2008-05-29 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

You think he'd accept?

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-29 11:55AM | 0 recs
I do. I've had this discussion in the past on Kos

It is unfathomable that he would turn down VP.  Regardless of how disappointed his followers would be if he did not get the nomination, he would be a fool not to accept a chance to make history, going from a first term Senator to the  first African American Vice President in the history of these United States.  

And he would set himself up for a run at POTUS in eight years, when he'd still be really young in politician years.  By doing this, he could shed the inexperience label.  He could get eight years of White House experience to put on his resume.    

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I do. I've had this discussion in the past on

He has already said in as many words that he wouldn't, and I am sure that is true.  Why would he want to associate himself with Clinton's baggage - he is his own man.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-29 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I do. I've had this discussion in the past on

Uh, he may be his own man, but he'd still be a fool not to be the VP. If he stays in the Senate, he may well be well-positioned to run again. Or, his moment could pass and he could end up as yesterday's news, outflanked by the hot new rockstar candidate of 2012 or '16.

Moreover, the longer he's a Senator, the more complicated his voting record will become, and the more he'll have to answer for (see: Kerry, John).
Or, if McCain does win, his VP is likely to be a young, viable future candidate like Sanford--an incumbent VP would be far stronger than any of this year's motley lot of GOP candidates. In other words, you can never guarantee your window of opportunity stays open.

As for not hitching his wagon to the Clinton baggage, I've got to reject that argument. It basically suggests Hillary can't win, and we hear way too much of that from the other side.

There are no safe bets in races like this. Sure, he could be on the ticket and end up like John Edwards, but this isn't 2004 and you've got to ante up if you want to win.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-29 01:22PM | 0 recs
Delusional in the extreme.

 Obama has it sewn up.  Signed, sealed, delivered, he's ours!

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-29 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

I don't know, if he will.  But I hear Chelsea is first in line. I hear somewhere that it is her time and she is not backing down. Bill is out there stumping for Chelsea I heard. lol

by ETHIOLIB 2008-05-29 12:15PM | 0 recs
That is a ticket that...

really makes sense.

by tonedevil 2008-05-29 12:18PM | 0 recs
I hope not

The Clintons, sad to say, are the kiss of death for the political fortunes of Democrats not named Clinton.

by JJE 2008-05-29 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

Except that you think Obama sucks in pretty much every possible way. So you believe you should put a very sucky person in the position of VP.

That explains very much about your choice for president as well.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-29 12:41PM | 0 recs
A serious question.

No, really.

I'd imagine their view on this is the same as Obama supporter's view.

A few will be really angry and won't vote for Clinton, most will come around. It will take patience and undertanding on both sides, and some wounds might be too deep to heal.

I'm predicting lots of scar tissue for the Democratic party, but no one every said change was painless.

by Artemis Jax 2008-05-29 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: A serious question.

Probably, depends on how it goes down. Thing is this is a wound in the party which might not matter now, but will not too long from now.

Looking into the future, the Democrats should have large majorities. But this never lasts. How will the republicans come back? The Democrats will split apart, and we can already see where the seam is. Just like how the Republicans have split ideologically between Theo-cons, Neo-cons, and Pseudo-Libertarians this year.

by Lost Thought 2008-05-29 11:54AM | 0 recs
If calls for her to drop out did not start

so early and come so often, this thing may have resolved itself.

Here's a question - how is Obama and Obama's supporters going to demonstrate that they seek to understand why Hillary has so many supporters? How are they going to demonstrate and REQUEST their votes?

by catfish2 2008-05-29 11:51AM | 0 recs
Doh! Did not read the whole diary.

Yes I've been praying for a diary to ask this question.

Yes - she should pick Obama as veep.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 11:52AM | 0 recs
nah, he's unqualified, inexperienced, and sexist

or so we're constantly informed.  Plus it wouldn't work.  He'd become "Uncle Obama" in about two minutes.  Back of the bus, dream deferred.   Wouldn't work.

by JJE 2008-05-29 11:56AM | 0 recs
heh, exactly

catfish2 has claimed that Obama is "against democracy."

But yea, stick him on the ticket!!!

The hypocrisy is hilarious.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-29 12:00PM | 0 recs
That's politics. Strange bedfellows.

You see - you have to get the consent of the governed. He is blocking MI and FL and it will cost him.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 12:38PM | 0 recs

To put the blame on Obama for the MI/FL situation displays a shocking lack of insight into objective reality.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-29 12:49PM | 0 recs
Because he removed his name from the ballot

in MI, that is Hillary's fault? Because he was silent when talk of re-votes was happening, when Carville came up with money to fund it, that's Hillary's fault? That he hasn't fought alongside Hillary to get their votes counted, or delegates seated, that is Hillary's fault?

These are two HUGE states. Both hugely affected by the mortgage meltdown. Both swing states. What in god's name is this man thinking?

by catfish2 2008-05-29 12:58PM | 0 recs

It's actually Hillary's fault because she didn't take her name off the ballot, like the DNC requested.  If she had, then she wouldn't have been able to use the state as a wedge issue and humiliate the poor electorate of Michigan who just wanted the issue dropped.  

It's only in La La Blame Obama Land that these things are his fault.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-29 01:03PM | 0 recs
Ask kos

As kos said:

Clinton was the only top-tier candidate to refuse the ultimate Iowa and New Hampshire pander by removing her name from the Michigan ballot. That makes her essentially the de facto winner since Edwards and Obama, caving to the cry babies in Iowa and New Hampshire, took their name off Michigan's ballot. Sure, the DNC has stripped Michigan of its delegates, but that won't last through the convention. The last thing Democrats can afford is to alienate swing states like Michigan and Florida by refusing to seat their delegates.

So while Obama and Edwards kneecap their chances of winning, Clinton is single-mindedly focused on the goal.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 01:14PM | 0 recs
January Kos was wrong

I'm sure May Kos will confirm that.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-29 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Right

Not to mention a breathtaking expanse of intellectual dishonesty.  This primary season has been a real eye opener for me.  The face-painting, stripped to the waist tribalism worthy of any chanting cluster of tailgate-partying football fans the sorry spectacle day after weary day here and elsewhere.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-29 01:47PM | 0 recs
WTF was THAT comment all about? nt

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: If calls for her to drop out did not start

I think much depends on the two candidate's ability to come together.  If Senator Clinton backs an Obama candidacy as enthusiatically as she says she will, it would go a long way.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 11:56AM | 0 recs
Obama has to stop playign fops or sops

or whatever they are called in sports. Pretending there was a foul, falling down, and working the ref.

We can see right through it. No amount of campaigning by Hillary will help us see otherwise. He is a sore winner.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 01:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama has to stop playign fops or sops

Well if you mind is so closed, then why should we care what you think?  If you're not voting for Obama no matter what . . . you make yourself irrelevant.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:12PM | 0 recs
How about ask him to be VP of a dream ticket? nt


by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 11:52AM | 0 recs
How about appointing him to the Supreme Court?

Given that he teaches constitutional law....

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 11:53AM | 0 recs
Sorry to reply to myself but...

It would be great, because its a life-long appointment, he's a liberal, and he's so damn young.  We'd have a solid liberal Justice for the next four decades or so.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 11:54AM | 0 recs
You can't make appointments

until you're elected.

by JJE 2008-05-29 11:54AM | 0 recs
Sure, but you could make the promise...

just like many Obama supporters are suggesting that Hillary be offered a seat on the Court.  And unlike the Hillary issue, in which people complained that the confirmation process would be ugly and like the impeachment or Whitewater all over again, I don't think the confirmation process for a Justice Obama would be ugly at all (as long as he doesn't have an illegal immigrant as a nanny for the girls /snark).

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 12:16PM | 0 recs
You really think that will work?

"Sorry black folks and inspired youth, the SDs picked me.  But rally behind me and if I win I promise to appoint Senator Obama to the Supreme Court.  There he will continue his message of hope and change through such inspiring pronouncements as 'It is well-settled that a party who fails to challenge personal jurisdiction in his first responsive pleading has thereby waived it.'"

Sounds like a plan.

by JJE 2008-05-29 12:24PM | 0 recs
Though I like the idea...

of Justice Obama, what you say is very true.  I don't think the promise of it would take us very far down the road-of-reconciliation.  

by tonedevil 2008-05-29 12:31PM | 0 recs
I really resent how you keep injecting racial

disharmony into your posts.  I get the impression that you are fanning the flames of racism on purpose.  Are you?

Furthermore, his message of hope and change was a campaign slogan.  Read that last sentence again.  It was a campaign slogan.  That's not me dissing Senator Obama.  Its just me pointing out the undeniable fact that hope and change was/is a campaign slogan.  Do you really believe that Barack Obama OWNS the CONCEPT of hope and change, and would be abandoning his INVENTION by being appointed to SCOTUS?

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-29 12:44PM | 0 recs
You need to calm down

I'm not injecting racial disharmony.  African Americans are one of Obama's strongest constituencies, are they not?  That's the only point of those two words in my comment.  Am I also injecting age disharmony with my reference to inspired youth?  Or are you one of those sensitive types who think we should always ignore race because it makes white people upset?

Slogan or no, the campaign themes that distinguish Obama from Clinton are hope/change vs. fighter/experience.  Do you deny this?

And if not, do you deny that the promise of a Supreme Court opinion, where Obama's only public function will be in the form of dry and arcane legal opinions, is unlikely to mollify those who support him because they believe he represents hope and change for the future?

by JJE 2008-05-29 01:16PM | 0 recs
This whole thing is based on the premise that he

does not win the nomination.  Therefore, he has limited choices.  He could remain as one of 100 relatively powerless Senators, and go through the hastle of campaigning, bringing in dollars, and going up for re-election every few years, or he could take a lifetime appointment as one of a small fraternity of SCOTUS justices, where he could be the deciding vote on legislation that could bring hope and change for all.  

by PJ Jefferson 2008-05-30 01:02PM | 0 recs
It couldn't happen...

...since the convention is in late August.  The way she gets it now is spending the next 2 months attacking Obama and then winning some bizarre ruling about MI followed by a lot of SDs switching.  It would take at least a month for the anger over that to die down and then there's only 4 weeks left to heal.

by thezzyzx 2008-05-29 11:56AM | 0 recs
What I find amusing:

some of the same people who will attack Obama as a "sneering, jeering", "uppity", "prissy weasel" who "isn't fit to be dogcatcher" and who is an "empty suit" BLAH BLAH BLAH would MORE than gladly take him as VP and the huge support (in the form of enthusiastic supporters and cold, hard cash) he would bring along.

In order words: "Obama sucks, but we'd LOVE to have him on the ticket!!!!"

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-29 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: What I find amusing:

Best. Post. Ever.

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-29 12:00PM | 0 recs
You're WAY off

but thanks!!!

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-29 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: What I find amusing:

I don't want him as VP.  I don't want him as anything.

Not all Clinton supporters would be in favor of that.

by wblynch 2008-05-29 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing (New and Impro

The question is basically moot.  The only scenarios where Clinton wins the nomination at this point are ones in which Obama suddenly becomes completely damaged goods because of some kind of unlikely bombshell out of nowhere (tapes emerge of him or Michele saying racially incendiary things; credible allegations of sex with minors, etc), and thus unfit for VP either.

by Fuzzy Dunlop 2008-05-29 12:30PM | 0 recs
Plausible scenarios

At least the first one "tapes emerge of him or Michele saying racially incendiary things".

by catfish2 2008-05-29 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Plausible scenarios

Been reading No Quarter again?

Why some Clinton supporters can't see through that obvious ploy by a former CIA disinformation agent is beyond me.

by Koan 2008-05-29 12:45PM | 0 recs
It's plausible. Not saying I am 100%

certain. And I'm not even sure that when the tape emerges people will be surprised or even care.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 12:56PM | 0 recs
You seem to be certain

it's a complete lie. I think it's possibly not true, but would not be surprised at all if it is true.

by catfish2 2008-05-29 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: You seem to be certain

It would be plausible, perhaps, except that Johnson claims the tape shows her saying "down with whitey."

Down with whitey.  Really.  Really?

by Koan 2008-05-29 01:06PM | 0 recs
Enough of this "Clinton can win" thing

Can y'all please stop writing these diaries about how Clinton can win without saying anything about HOW she can win?

The logic doesn't fit. Sure, no one can win without the superdelegates. But why are we saying "without" the superdelegates. A lot of them have almost declared. And after June 3, Obama will only need like 5% more of them.

Considering a lot of supers already said they would support the pledged delegate winner (Obama, no matter which way you slice it), Obama will need a few more supers, which will be there, easily.

Sorry, but considering Clinton has only gotten a few ad-ons and a super who already had endorsed her in the last few weeks, while Obama continued to rack up superdelegates.

Give me a possible scenario that makes nearly 100% of the remaining superdelegates endorse Clinton. If you can do that, then your diary will make sense.

Until then, no. It is not just as easy for Hillary to win.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-05-29 01:05PM | 0 recs
When Sen. Clinton wins this thing
She will leave Bill at home and let Chelsea go back to her day job and get to work:
  1. The first group she will sit down with are the "", who firmly believe that their approach to campaigning (as shown with Obama's candidacy)is what it is going to take to beat the Republicans at their own game -- If it weren't for this wing of the party, Barack Obama's candidacy would have never gotten the traction it did from inside the party. -- The other piece of this is some sort of mutual mea culpa on both sides for sins of the past. For some reason, this crowd got the sense that she didn't want to play with them -- this has to be fixed.
  2. The second group she will sit down with is all of the leaders of the African-American community in this country whom she has KNOWN since Obama was a CHILD and Senator Obama (he might be reasonable but sorry, wifey not invited to this meeting) and work out a place for both camps to "save face" (a universal value that I learned a lot about in Africa)
I have so much better confidence in Hillary's ability to lead the party through this time because (..wait for it) -- SHE HAS DONE IT HUNDREDS OF TIMES BEFORE.
I hope the leaders of the Democratic Party do the right thing and give this very smart and capable public servant the chance to lead us all.
by pan230oh 2008-05-29 01:06PM | 0 recs
"wifey"? ugh

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-29 01:34PM | 0 recs

I missed that when I first read the post.  Which group of supporters is sexist?  I keep forgetting.

by tonedevil 2008-05-29 01:43PM | 0 recs
Well thought out.

I would suggest that Chelsea is one of her more effective weapons, totally agree with you on the President Clinton thing though.  Big high five for the number one group to start reconciliation with.  Sen. Clinton may run as a moderate, but without the left wing I don't think it will fly. FWIW I think Democrats have been far too appeasing of the right since at least when Reagan took the presidency.

by tonedevil 2008-05-29 01:41PM | 0 recs
Sen. Clinton IS winning it! nt

by LindaSFNM 2008-05-29 01:08PM | 0 recs
Yeah that's in the title.

So how are you going to get us, Barack Obama supporters, to vote for and even support Hillary Clinton in the General Election?  

by tonedevil 2008-05-29 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton IS winning it! nt
How do you expect her to win the General Election when she can't even win the nomination process? This is a joke... Sports teams can't win championships without making the playoffs and she's isn't even making the playoffs. You win by scoring the most number of points (delegates) not how many fans you have in the stands at a home game.
by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-29 01:45PM | 0 recs
lol, love it

so when you said this wasn't snark, that was snark right?

by hope monger 2008-05-29 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

Well, no matter what, the nomination will not be made until the convention in August.  That's just the mechanics of the thing.

No matter what.  We all have to wait.

Given that, anything, and I mean anything can happen between now and August.

Information on either candidate can come to light.  
Polls, public sentiment, Old McCain's insanity, Bush declaring Martial Law... who knows?  But a lot of things can change that could impact this election.

3 months is a lifetime in American politics anymore.

If we learned anything from November, 2000 and September, 2001 it should be that "anything can happen".

by wblynch 2008-05-29 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Sen. Clinton can win this thing

And here's how....

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-29 10:12PM | 0 recs


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