It's Not About Race [Updated]

It's all over the blogosphere, the cable TV shows, the newspapers, it's tonight's top talking point from Obama surrogates.

It's Obama's rationale:  Defeats in West Virginia (and Kentucky next week) are because those white folks got a problem voting for a black man.

But sorry, that's wrong.  Not only is it wrong, it's hugely offensive to fair-minded white people.  That's right, most "hillbillies" and southern folk do not discriminate. Imagine how all those white people who voted for Hillary Clinton today feel having their votes explained away due to racism.  It's not going to help in November if Obama is the nominee, that much is for sure.

I just saw a FOX News exit poll statistic that 77% of the people in West Virginia said race was NOT a factor in their vote.  I absolutely believe them.  I believe that a different African American candidate could be much more successful than Obama among some of the white segments where he's struggled.  I have been trying to shout this point from the rooftops:  It is not Obama's skin color that gives voters pause.  It is a collection of other issues, mixed together.  It's Rev. Wright damning America, plus "bitter small-towners clinging," plus friendships with guys like Rezko and Ayres, plus Michelle's patriotism gaffe, plus the flag pin problem -- all of that combined with the experience gap, the weak name recognition -- all together, there's the answer.

It's not race, so please stop.  If Obama becomes the nominee, I'd suggest that a more effective way to win votes in November is to deal head-on with the liabilities listed in that last paragraph.  Playing the race card may have had some limited use in the primary season, but it will be the kiss of death for Democrats as a general-election strategy.

Obama lost West Virginia today by whopping double digits.  Convenient as it may be to blame it on racism, that's a costly error.

UPDATE: In the comments to this diary, twinmom makes a great point:

I'd take it a step further (2.00 / 4)

I don't even think this victory has anything to do with Obama. It isn't a rejection of him... these people LOVE HILLARY! These people believe with all their hearts and minds that Hillary should be our next President. She connects with them, she speaks to them, she gets their enthusiastic support and votes.

Personally, I've never lived in a state that went for Obama. I've lived in RI, NY, MA, NH, CA, NM, PA. Racism doesn't explain why those votes went for Hillary. I don't know a single person that I'd ever in a million years call racist. I know literally hundreds of loyal Clinton supporters and their motivation is exactly like my own: Pro-pro-pro-pro-HILLARY! Not everything is about Obama. :)

Cross posted at texasdarlin

TexasDarlin, all rights reserved
Not affiliated with the Hillary Clinton campaign

Tags: black, Hillary Clinton, landslide, obama, racism, victory, Voters, West Virginia, WHITE (all tags)



Re: It's Not About Race

The truth will set you free.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Mostly agree.  Only 2 of 10 white voters said race was a factor.  

Clinton's a strong candidate, and clearly WV likes her and does not feel the same way about Obama.

by bosdcla14 2008-05-13 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Um, whoops.  My bad.  From an AP article:

"One in four Clinton voters and about one in 10 Obama voters said race was an important factor in their vote." 5/early_wva_exit_poll_highlights.php

A quarter of her voters...somehow that seems like a lot more than 20%, even though its only a 5% bump.

But I still don't think that's enough to sway things either way.

by bosdcla14 2008-05-13 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

1 in 4 Clinton voters means that she would have gotten less than 50% if it were not for race.

by brimur 2008-05-13 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

AND that's just among folks who openly ADMIT it.

by brimur 2008-05-13 07:11PM | 0 recs
Racism is dead in America..

Isn't that proved by Obama?

by TrueBlueCT 2008-05-13 09:52PM | 0 recs
Racism is dying in America

That's what you see in the age difference in white support for Obama.

by hebi 2008-05-14 12:57AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

And what percent would Obama have gotten in NC if not for race?


by adrienne4dean 2008-05-14 12:42AM | 0 recs
Hold on

That's unfair.  It's like asking what percentage Clinton would get in any of these states if she weren't a woman.  It's one thing to vote in support of someone because they share your gender or skin color and because they would be the first person of that gender or skin color to ever be present.  It's far worse to vote AGAINST someone because of their skin color or gender (and the above info suggests that 1/4 of Clinton voters made their decision, at least in part, because of Obama's skin color).

You may not like the fact that AAs vote overwhelmingly for Obama, you may even have a case to make for the fact that many of those votes for him are ONLY because of AA solidarity and not real issues (although I'd disagree).  However, if you attempt to make that argument, you are going to have to concede that a lot of women are voting for Clinton based on their desire to see a women in the White House.

Finally, even if either case were true, is that such a bad thing, for people to want to see a racial or gender barrier destroyed forever?

by JimmyJames01 2008-05-14 04:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Hold on Yourself!

Oh, for the love of God. That is ridiculous.

It's quite fair to point out that race is a factor in black voters decisions, if you are pointing out that race is a factor in white voters' decisions.

Your "that's not fair," argument is quite simply astonishing--basically, you're saying that race as a factor in a voting decision is defined as white racism even when black voters may use race as a factor in their voting.

That is preposterous. They didn't poll the question "are you a racist?"--yet you're perverting it into white racism.

What nonsense!

The question is this: What percentage of black voters, do you suppose, would say race was an important factor in their vote?

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Just words.

by Tennessean 2008-05-14 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Hold on Yourself!

You really believe african americans are turning out just to vote AGAINST the white woman?  If they are voting for a racial reason, isn't it more likely that reason is to see, for the first time ever, a person of color attain the highest office in the land?

And on the flipside, if a white person says they voted based on race, shouldn't we assume that they voted against Obama because they believe a black man can't win, or they don't want a black man to win?  Do you really think a white person would say that they based their vote on race, and then go on to explain that further by saying they really really just want to see a white person win this thing for once?......I doubt it.  

The best way you can spin this is to say that, as a white person, you aren't racist, but you believe most people are, and therefore you think Obama cannot win in November, and therefore you voted for Clinton (but in a roundabout way it was based on race).

I imagine a lot of black voters based their vote on race, I don't think you even need to ask.  I just don't believe this makes them racist.  When 25% of Clinton voters (most of whom are white) made their decision based on race, however, I think you are hard pressed to convince me that racism wasn't a factor, at least for some of those voters.  So asking what percentage of NC Obam would have won if not for race is as silly as asking what percentage of any state Clinton would have gotten if not for her sex?  How many women are voting to see a woman take the White House?  And is there anything wrong with voting for that reason?

My main point is this:  Keep race and sex out of these discussions as much as you can, because you do not know what is in the hearts of people when they vote.  Resist the urge to insinuate that because Obama wins the AA vote 9 to 1, they therefore are voting only based on his skin color.  Or someone will do the same to your candidate regarding her sex.

by JimmyJames01 2008-05-14 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

someday it'll be none, but forty years ago what would it have been. One of the great things about Barack's campaign is that it shows, we're not as racist anymore. We've moved beyond that, as far as individual racism. but we still have a lot in the criminal justice system, in school funding, in the loan industry and housing industry. I read today that mental cigarettes won't be as regulated as ones without menthol, and guess which group as a whole prefers menthol.  Hilary spoke in New Orleans about her plans and solution to right wrongs against African Americans.  She has a plan for investment in disadvantaged communities so jobs come there. she sees no reason why investors can't make money in these communities.  She really is a uniter.  I mean, he wants to be, but she's shown it.  

by anna shane 2008-05-13 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Will you also admit that sexism is not an important factor in this race then?

by catalysis 2008-05-13 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Will you also admit that sexism is not an important factor in this race then?

I think the presence of Bill has neutralized that to a large degree. I think he reassures a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be comfortable voting for a woman. And let's not forget that Senator Clinton carries the very demographics that are most likely to support traditional gender roles; when you win WV and KY overwhelmingly and your opponent wins San Fransisco, it's sort of hard to make the case that your opponent is being buoyed by bigots.  

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-13 05:35PM | 0 recs
I think sexism may have been a problem earlier

But, I don't think it is the kind of "fear of a strong woman" type of sexism that feminists love to invoke.  I think early on many males viewed Hillary as a scolding school marm or feminist nazi type and just tuned her out. I don't think they even really listened to her.  Now that she's shown that she's a bit of a good old gal (albeit with Wellesley and Yale training) more guys are voting for her.

I do think some of the ass wipes in the media could be accused of sexism, though.

by lombard 2008-05-13 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: I think sexism may have been a problem earlier
but does sexism affect how people vote? Just because Chris Matthews and others say make some stupid remarks, does that actually translate into votes for Obama?

I find it hard to believe that any "sexist remarks" said by a pundit or written in a paper would actually make somebody vote for Obama. Sure, remarks like those can be offensive (and juvenile in my opinion), but do they sway voters?

by power of truth 2008-05-13 06:47PM | 0 recs
Probably not so much

by lombard 2008-05-13 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Probably not so much

Did anyone exit poll for sex bias?  Otherwise we're just speculating.

Of course there's unconscious sex and gender bias, too.  You can test and perhaps surprise yourself for both as well as presidential candidate preference at


by adrienne4dean 2008-05-14 12:50AM | 0 recs
Nope, Sexism is dead too...

this is America that you're trying to tear down. Socially we're all absolutely equal. The white men's club is dead, and now the Country is strictly about egalitarian.

by TrueBlueCT 2008-05-13 09:55PM | 0 recs
But you're wrong about this. Racism and sexism are, sadly, both very much alive today.
It's true, government sanctioned sexism and racism are gone, so as far as the law goes, we're all equal; but informal, social bigotry of all kinds still linger, and even thrive here and there.
The problem is that--and I'm speaking specifically about racism here--it's less open than it was 40 or more years ago. It's harder to see since it isn't the law any more and it's no onger socially acceptable, so people try to hide it.
It's harder to see, but it's still there. And since it is harder to see, it's also harder to fight. The truth is, most white people nevere see it at all, as we don't live with race day to day: we don't think of ourselves or other whites as "white Americans"; we're just "Americans". But black Americans ARE still "black Americans" more than they are "Americans".
They live with race all day, evry day. They're the Other. They have always been "not quite like us". They're a minority; they stand out.
There's no way for me to prove this to you, but try asking a black person if they think racism is dead. It's far more likely than not that you'll get a "No," as your answer. And it isn't that the black people who say this are just resentful or looking for an unfair advantage, or want reperations, or want some kind of a free ride and want you to feel guilty; it's that they LIVE through every day having to deal with the pervasive but subtle racism that still infects American society.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-14 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: I think sexism may have been a problem earlier

I don't like the reference to "feminists like to invoke" but I do agree with your comment on media sexists.  Tweety and Olbermann are the winners there.

by Tolstoy 2008-05-14 08:04AM | 0 recs
because it is the sexism of the media and Obama himself that has been appalling.  
The media sexism effects how they report this race and Obama's dog whistle call out to sexist arguments have been a part of that.
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-14 01:04AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

great comment, anna, thanks.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

A better title would be "It's Not Only About Race." Race is an important factor for at least 20% of WV voters. Those people may be in the minority, but they aren't statistically insignificant.

by jdusek 2008-05-13 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

no it wouldn't.  that would be disgusting.  Even worse then it's not all about sex, race ought not be a factor and we ought not focus on something ugly like racism, we're dems.  He's won most African Americans and we know that's not racist. She wins working class folks without college degrees who struggle to pay their bills and if Barack wasn't in the contest, she'd be winning the same with poorer black voters. YOu have to wonder why he wins the professional classes over the working classes.  I think they trust her to take their concerns seriously, cause she's had enough time in public service to demonstrate it.  They're now saying he can win those voters in the GE cause of the more of the same. That was Kerry's line, and he didn't win running against the real Bush.  McCain is well liked by the people and he may not be that easy to beat. He has a dark skinned adopted daughter, and he's no racist.  He's got the wrong ideas, but to those voters he may seem stronger on national security and they have conservative values.  The bottom line is that we need to win the GE, and Barack doesn't come with a guarantee he'll survive the pug onslaught. she does ,she has.  

by anna shane 2008-05-13 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

A couple of things:

1.  It's not disgusting to acknowledge that race and gender is a factor for some voters. It's not a factor for you and me, but it is for others. Over at today there was a post about a white WV voter who was voting for the "colored" guy because he didn't think a woman could be president. You and I can agree that's ridiculous, but remember back before PA when MyDD was full of diaries arguing that it was "elitist" to ignore the views of people who vote based on superficial criteria like skin color, gender or flag pins? Thankfully people with these views represent a small percentage of voters, but pretending they don't exist doesn't benefit anyone.

2. Neither Democratic candidate comes with a guarantee that they'll win the GE, but I think either candidate will clobber McCain in the fall. They're already polling ahead of him despite the fact that he's getting more or less a free ride while BO and HC duke it out.

by jdusek 2008-05-13 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I agree that race/gender are factors...but I would argue that they are not the most important factors, particularly in this primary. Obama has a problem with working class voters - NOT just white working class voters, but working class voters in general, with the exception of African Americans (and I'd add that the 90 + percent of African American voters supporting Obama is another example of race being a factor - albeit one that I think is generally positive).

by OtherLisa 2008-05-13 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Only in certain areas (primarily the Rust Belt and Appalachia) of the country is his lack of support from white, working-class voters a problem. That theory gets shot to shit when you consider out west.

If you haven't read the piece in the Washington Post about the GOTV folks in Indiana and their experiences on the ground working for Obama, then maybe you ought to give it a gander. I don't care who you support, it ought to make anyone sick and not a little upset that we still have this sort of problem in our country. tent/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014. html?nav=hcmodule

by bookish 2008-05-14 05:46AM | 0 recs
amd black people voting for Obama

at 93 percent has nothing to do with race?  Come on, they just aren't admitting to it.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-14 01:07AM | 0 recs
You just can't help yourself

I challenged you a few days ago to name 10 legislative accomplishments of HRC and you haven't. I have been able to list a handful of things that Obama has done while you have remained silent.

Stop insulting black folks like myself. Yes, we are voting for him based on policy. Just because you were married to a black man does not mean that you know how we operate.

Knock it off.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-14 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: amd black people voting for Obama

Absolutely race is a key factor for some AAs, and gender is a key factor for some women. But the vast majority of blacks and women don't support a candidate based solely on their race or gender. If they did, we would have had seen stronger support for a President Elizabeth Dole or a President Al Sharpton. However, there are some people who will vote AGAINST a candidate simply because of their skin color, and 20% of voters last night said race played an important role in their decision. That is a sad statistic. Fortunately this group is small and shrinking, but they do exist.

by jdusek 2008-05-14 07:43AM | 0 recs
Its also just about the worst
narrative that the Obama Channels and the Obama campaign could be pushing- it will harm him more than hurt him if he gets past the primary. If Obama makes it about race, even intimates as much, then the election becomes just that. Great diary TXD!
by linc 2008-05-13 04:13PM | 0 recs
Just re-read
you said as much in you closing paragraph- sorry to be a dolt!
by linc 2008-05-13 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Its also just about the worst

It is very unfortunate, for our Dem prospects, that Hil's supports have fought so hard to make it about race.

See the distortions and simplifications, of Wright's sermons, the "twisting of "typical white person"  the "hard working" slander.

by wrb 2008-05-13 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Then I guess you got a life sentence.

by venician 2008-05-13 04:21PM | 0 recs
Nice map

I like the style

by NewHampster 2008-05-13 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice map

thanks hampster

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

even if it was disgustingly about race, does that change the reality that this is how people voted?

by canadian gal 2008-05-13 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Unfortunately no.  Am I the only person who was depressed by the exit polls?  25 percent is an awfully high number AND we're talking about Democrats, AND these are the numbers who admited it.

The only thing I can say is that those of us who are Obama voters have looked at the electoral map, and there are a couple of states that you lose as the cost of running an African American.

If there was ever an election where losing those voters isn't fatal, this is it.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I would like to see exit polls asking about gender. I bet there are some that won't vote for a woman.

by splashy 2008-05-14 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Me too.

Hey, I bet whatever the numbers are, they get smaller every year.

by Jordache 2008-05-14 01:50PM | 0 recs
When Obama wins Oregon by 20-25 points next week

will that be because of race too??

Probably not.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-13 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Yes race was a factor litics/story?id=4844868&page=1

It is a sad reality, and I think that number is higher because voters tend not to tell pollsters they are racists

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-13 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

if they were equal candidates in experience and plans and solutions, if they had the exact same records to run on but he had just one tiny thing more, and if he got trounced then you could claim it must be his race. But he's a new guy and not everyone wants to roll the dice. we know about her, we really don't know about him. I'd vote for him for sure, it would be interesting, but I'm a professional and don't really rely on a president, some will always vote the candidate with the most experience, they'll worry about putting a new guy with little experience in charge of the nation.  

by anna shane 2008-05-13 04:39PM | 0 recs
I agree 100%

Seems like we often agree anna shane. :)

by twinmom 2008-05-13 05:36PM | 0 recs
Re: I agree 100%

But the voters themselves are the ones making the claim.  A quarter of HRC voters said race was a factor.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Hammer meet nailhead - well said Anna!

by alegre 2008-05-13 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

You're absolutely right.

And outside of Appalachia (and in the nation as a whole), Obama has been judged to be the far superior candidate.  

by PantsB 2008-05-13 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

So your argument is that Appalachia scrutinized the two candidate's voting records and policy positions more closely than all the other states did?

by Brannon 2008-05-13 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

And then came to the opposite conclusions.

And LIED to the exit pollsters when they said race was a factor.  I lie to pollsters.  Maybe they did too.  These are all possibilities.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:15PM | 0 recs
And if race IS a factor?

What a sad commentary for our country.  Definitely.  But how will we address that issue in November, if Obama is our candidate?

by izarradar 2008-05-13 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: And if race IS a factor?

agreed.  but sadly i do not think it can be addressed.  just like there are some sexists out there that would never vote for a woman.

by canadian gal 2008-05-13 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: And if race IS a factor?

Fortunately, and I do mean fortunately, that's mitigated bigtime by the fact that women are the majority - and an even bigger voting majority.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:16PM | 0 recs
Re: And if race IS a factor?

except a lesson we learned from this primary is that women do not necessarily support women candidates.

by canadian gal 2008-05-13 10:24PM | 0 recs
Is race a factor when the AA community

comes out strong for Obama?

Not quite sure how to split the difference.

BTW I am half of a mixed race marriage (Ashkenaz, Aframerican).  Both strong for Hillary.

by magnetics 2008-05-13 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Is race a factor when the AA community

Dunno. I know it's never a race problem when the AA community comes out strong for a Democrat.  

by niksder 2008-05-13 06:12PM | 0 recs
Well, since Nixon and the 'Southern Strategy'

race  baiting has been the cornerstone of Rethuglican electoral stratagy...but to say so rather begs the question in the present case.

by magnetics 2008-05-13 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, since Nixon and the 'Southern Strategy'

Well black people have been voting for white Democrats long before Nixon and the Southern strategy.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, since Nixon and the 'Southern Strategy'

Oh really?  You mean going back to Reconstruction?  Who are you kidding?

by oliver cromwell 2008-05-13 11:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, since Nixon and the 'Southern Strategy'

No, since FDR I believe.

by Captain Bathrobe 2008-05-14 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, since Nixon and the 'Southern Strategy'

And more importantly, since the civil rights act when they could do it in numbers.

by Jordache 2008-05-14 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

That IS interesting.  My niece (from Japan) lived in West Virginia (univ of w.v. in morgantown) - loves the U.S. but she had some stories to tell  -  they are pretty racist in W.V.

by mariannie 2008-05-13 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Thank you. I'm tired of Team Obama's race baiting. It's not about race, he is a wiener. Hillary is a winner.  

by grlpatriot 2008-05-13 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

We all know race was a big factor in WV. To pretend otherwise is just silly.

by fugazi 2008-05-13 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

It's not silly, it's insulting. To try to spin and prevaricate to take political advantage of racism that is so blatant that 20% of a population (which by the way is the 20% that put Clinton over 50%) will openly admit that race played into their decision to reject the black guy...

by brimur 2008-05-13 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Yeah, I remember when Obama said he was going to appeal to the hard working voters, white hard working voters.  He was sooooo race baiting when he said that.  He did say that, right?  I'm fairly certain the biased media wrongly attributed it to Sen. Clinton.  They do that all the time.  And, as you can tell from the title of this diary, it's not about race.

by niksder 2008-05-13 06:15PM | 0 recs
I'd take it a step further

I don't even think this victory has anything to do with Obama. It isn't a rejection of him... these people LOVE HILLARY! These people believe with all their hearts and minds that Hillary should be our next President. She connects with them, she speaks to them, she gets their enthusiastic support and votes.

Personally, I've never lived in a state that went for Obama. I've lived in RI, NY, MA, NH, CA, NM, PA. Racism doesn't explain why those votes went for Hillary. I don't know a single person that I'd ever in a million years call racist. I know literally hundreds of loyal Clinton supporters and their motivation is exactly like my own: Pro-pro-pro-pro-HILLARY!

Not everything is about Obama. :)

by twinmom 2008-05-13 04:10PM | 0 recs
don't know a single person you

would ever call a racist??????

you are truly blessed or you don't know too many people.

i hope its the former.

by citizendave 2008-05-13 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: don't know a single person you

there are plenty of racists, and sexists, and creeps and jerks, but blessedly most are pugs.  We have some, but we stand for equality and our platform weeds them out.  

by anna shane 2008-05-13 04:44PM | 0 recs
just to clarify

you are refering to the hillary supporters you know ....not the general populations of those states you listed.....yes?

by citizendave 2008-05-13 05:00PM | 0 recs

I'm not naive enough to think no racists exist.

But I truly don't know anyone I feel is voting for racist reasons or out of an anti-Obama sentiment. The sentiment I hear most often is Hillary 2008 / Obama 2016. It simply isn't a race issue... it is an experience/readiness/credentials issue.

I'm not trying to open the experience can-of-worms. Just sayin'... that's the rationale I hear most often. These people will vote for Obama if he's the nominee, but with nowhere near the enthusiam which they feel for Hillary. That's exactly where I fall too.

For Hillary I donated the max amount, I canvased, I made phonecalls, I GOTV in RI, NY and PA. I just don't feel motivated in that way for Obama.  

by twinmom 2008-05-13 05:49PM | 0 recs
That's terrible decision-making

Look, NO ONE has put out the idea that all Clinton supporters who think Obama isn't qualified or suitable are racist.  NO ONE.

Some Clinton supporters seem to have grasped onto this strawman argument as a way to attack Obama and his supporters, but it's BS.

The truth of the matter is that Obama supporters acknowledge that racism has affected this campaign.  That's just a fact, just like it's a fact that sexism has affected this campaign.  To talk about it is not to claim that ALL Clinton supporters are SOLELY motivated by racism.

Plus, the fact that you're SO ANGRY by opinions of some of the candidate's supporters that you won't vote for the candidate based on those opinions is RIDICULOUS.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: You are a good person.

"I absolutely hate the idea put out by his followers that if I don't think he is qualified or suitable to be president I must be racist. That is a deal breaker."

Wow, just... wow.  You would not have seen that if you weren't looking for it.  I see frustrated Clinton supporters fall back on sexism all the time as an element in why she's lost.  Hillary herself blamed her loss in Iowa on sexism.

If I let that make me vote against her in the general, then I'd be a pretty superficial person.  There also happens to be an element of truth to it.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd take it a step further

that's a great point.  I'm going to update with your comment.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I haven't heard Obama or any formal surrogate blame the WV outcome on racism, first of all. But, let's not pretend that Obama's race and "exotic" heritage didn't present an obstacle. I'm not going to whine about it, though. It is what it is, and it doesn't make him unelectable by any stretch.

Moreover, there were surely some people who wouldn't vote for Clinton because she's a woman. Like this guy:

MONTGOMERY, W. Va. -- The small-town white voters of West Virginia are supposed to deliver what may be Hillary Clinton's last hurrah tonight, but three of them came to Montgomery City Hall this morning to cast ballots for her opponent -- each with a different reason.
"I'm going to vote for the colored guy," said Henry Ford -- "no, not that Henry Ford," the 87-year old retired carpenter in the Napa Auto Parts hat pointed out. "I don't dislike her, but I don't think a woman can be president of the United States. I don't think she can handle the job."

by DPW 2008-05-13 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

So did your Dad call or email you to announce he'd been quoted in the paper?

by KnowVox 2008-05-13 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

You're WAY out of line -- as usual.

by fogiv 2008-05-13 05:18PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

And of course, this doesn't offend you in the slightest -- as usual:

"I don't think a woman can be president of the United States. I don't think she can handle the job."

by KnowVox 2008-05-13 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Actually, it does.  I KnowYou think you KnowAll, KnowVox, but I have some important news for you:  You don't KnowMe.

You unfairly insult DPW for pointing the a reality of sexism (one which you've harped on endlessly), then insult me for calling you on it.


by fogiv 2008-05-14 07:49AM | 0 recs
So what IS your problem?
Really, I want to know.
Are you really as bitter and sad and angry as you seem to be? Or do you just write this stuff because you know it'll piss a lot of us off and get a rise out of us?
Really, what is wrong with you? I know it isn't healthy for me, but I find you fascinating, in a morbid kind of way. I'd love to find out what happened to you to make you turn out this way, since if I knew why it happened, maybe I, or somebody, could find a way to help you.
As silly as it seems, I kind of NEED to believe something could help you. It's important for me to believe that we all can be redeemed somehow; it gives me hope for us as a race (human, not black or white or &c...).
by Mumphrey 2008-05-14 11:28AM | 0 recs
It totally isn't about race

Dukakis performed just as badly among the same demographics. So did other losing candidates.

by owl06 2008-05-14 05:51AM | 0 recs
Re: It totally isn't about race

Dukakis won West Virginia, just so you know. I'm sure he had some demographic weaknesses, but it wasn't enough to cost him WV.

by DPW 2008-05-14 09:34AM | 0 recs
Doesn't this...

suggest it is about race:

One in four Clinton voters and about one in 10 Obama voters said race was an important factor in their vote.

1 in 4... and those are just the people willing to say that they vote based on race. How many people who vote on race are unwilling to say so?

by Tatan 2008-05-13 04:17PM | 0 recs
to me and most it suggests that people answered a exit poll question with an answer that could be motivated by a great many factors. Why do Obama supporters insist on calling their fellow Democrats racist?
by linc 2008-05-13 05:42PM | 0 recs

STOP LYING.  Look, whether or not Obama is qualified DOES NOT AFFECT the question "is race an important factor to you."

There are racists in America, why refuse to acknowledge that?  Why pretend that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those Clinton voters (1 in 4 in West VA!) that said race is an important factor actually LOVE black people?  It's a joke!

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 06:22PM | 0 recs

"I don't like Obama. He is black. Therefore, in your opinion, I must hate black people."

This is a lie.  Look, I know you want to play the victim card and pretend that all us Obama supporters unfairly think you're racist simply because you prefer another candidate, BUT IT'S NOT REALITY.

"But why do you think that everyone who believes that Obama would make a very second-rate president have to be racist?"

NO ONE thinks that!  Stop lying!  That is literally a lie.

Cmon, people, let's have a reality check.  Obama supporters want to acknowledge that racism plays a role in this campaign because some voters are racist (just like some voters are sexist --- it works unfairly against Clinton as well).  We do NOT ever suggest that "everyone" who believes Obama is not a good candidate is therefore racist.

Seriously, you are basing your rants against this "offensiveness" on falsehoods.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 06:55PM | 0 recs

Agree...its really tedious to hear that old line...'why do you accuse us of being racist just because we don't support Hillary' - NOT true at all - just a rant from Hillary supporters, maybe because they have nothing else to say?  

by mariannie 2008-05-13 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Wrong

Again, if someone asks "Is race a factor?" and 1 in 4 say yes, then I think we can safely say that those 25% are, in fact, racist. They could be a little bit racist. Or they could be at the KKK level. In either case, they are racist.

And as others have asked, I wonder how many others simply didn't respond to the poll honestly. This is a well-known and expected behavior. /west-virginia-exit-polls_n_101578.html

by Rationalisto 2008-05-13 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: SUGGESTS to you

You're having a problem with logic - if Obama's qualifications were the issue, that would be expressed as the answer to an experience question. The question in the exit polls was ONLY about race, and 25% of HRC's supporters said race was a factor in their decision to vote for Hillary over Obama.  There really isn't any other explanation other than   some degree of racism.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Doesn't this...

Didn't you get the memo? There's no such thing as racism anymore here on MyDD and in Hillaryland. When 25% of Hillary voters indicate that race had a hand in their decision, welp, those are just hardworking white Americans being the progressive Democrats they are.

by amiches 2008-05-13 05:56PM | 0 recs
tell me when 93 percent

of white people are voting for Clinton and I will cry Obama a river.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-14 01:25AM | 0 recs
Re: tell me when 93 percent

Will either Clinton do?  Because Bill Clinton got close to those numbers in the 92 primary.

by Jordache 2008-05-14 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Minor point. Where or when did Obama say:

"Defeats in West Virginia (and Kentucky next week) are because those white folks got a problem voting for a black man."

Because if he didn't please don't attribute to him.

Now his supporters another matter.

Personally I think it's a dumb conversation and speaks poorly of us as a country. Are there people who will no vote for a black man, well duh. Just like there far to many people who won't vote for a woman.

However, no matter who ends up winning I think we have  seen the country is ready to elect both a woman or a black man as president. Compared to where we were when I was a child back in the fifties I am more than encouraged about what lies ahead.

by jsfox 2008-05-13 04:18PM | 0 recs
Major point

if you had read the diary you would have seen the following;

it's all over the blogosphere, the cable TV shows, the newspapers, it's tonight's top talking point from Obama surrogates.

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Major point

I saw where she said it, but nowhere did she back it up.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:30PM | 0 recs

Well if it IS about race with white voters, John McCain should dust off his Bible

by rossinatl 2008-05-13 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

More proof it isn't about race:

A county in VA that voted against Obama in the primary voted for the first black governor of the state.

If people vote for Hillary, it's mostly because they either love Hillary or don't like Obama. It's about the content of his character, not the color of his skin.

by Nobama 2008-05-13 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I wouldn't bring character into this if I were a clintonite.

by venician 2008-05-13 04:25PM | 0 recs
by spacemanspiff 2008-05-13 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Read your link - that makes me want to cry.  Just unbelievable.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

That's as wrong as the Clinton nutcrackers.

Notice that the T-shirt is only sold in one place, while the nutcrackers are sold in a bunch of airports, and have been for a long time? If the nutcrackers weren't selling, they would not be offering them, so what does that say about the general public?

Both things are heinous. I hope the t-shirt person gets sued, and wish the nutcracker person could be sued.

by splashy 2008-05-14 11:23AM | 0 recs
hey, I feel the same way about Obama

if I were you, I wouldn't be highlighting that glass house you're sitting in, either.

by 4justice 2008-05-13 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

If people vote for Hillary, it's mostly because they either love Hillary or don't like Obama. It's about the content of his character, not the color of his skin.

1. I'm sure a lot of people like Hillary, but I think more people like Bill. In the CNN exit poll in NH, both Obama and Clinton voters were asked if they'd switch their vote to Bill if he were in the race; 73% of Obama voters said "no", 59% of Hillary voters said "yes". It's a shame CNN didn't continue to ask that question -- I'm guessing the margins would be even greater in WV. We forget that Hillary has never been genuinely rural or poor; Bill has been both of those things and I think he helped her greatly in WV. 2. The types of voters whom live in WV -- the poor and uneducated -- are statistically the least likely to be informed and knowledgeable about current events. In other words -- and I think the "Muslim" video that's been making the rounds illustrates this -- they are the least capable of judging the content of a person's character. 3. While I don't think racism was entirely the cause of Obama's loss (much of it was probably due to a general fear of all things different), it's undeniable that the poor and the elderly are the most racially-intolerant demographics. WV has both in spades, and a history of racial animus to boot. (I like Robert Byrd, but he couldn't get elected dog-catcher north of the Mason-Dixon line.)            

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-13 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

You respond to a reasoned post with ridiculous hyperbole.  But you need to come up with a better explanation for why Appalachia goes overwhelmingly for Clinton, when 25% of HRC's voters admit race was a factor in their decision.  You can spin all you like - but the answer is right there in that 25%, and it defied logic to pretend it isn't.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I am sure those poor ignorant people don't even own computers so they haven't see the Muslim video.

I was referring to a video in which a Clinton voter states that she refused to vote for Obama because he's a Muslim.

1. If they voted for Hillary they didn't really understand - it must have been for Bill.

It's not that they didn't understand, it's simply that they like Bill a whole lot better and probably wouldn't have voted for Hillary in his absence. I have no doubt, for instance, that John Edwards would've cleaned Hillary Rodham's clock in WV.

2. Only stupid people don't love Obama. They haven't learned about Rezko or his piss-poor record in the Senate, so they can't judge Obama's character.

The number of people who know anything about Rezko (which is pretty pathetic of you to bring up considering there's nothing there) or Obama's state senate record is tiny and even smaller, proportionally, in WV.

3. Everyone LOVES Obama except racists.

That's not what I said at all. I'm simply pointing out the fact that it's probably more than a coincidence that the demographics and regions of the country most likely to harbor racist sentiments seem to vote heavily against Barack Obama.

What a creepy post. Racial, nasty, totally weird.

And completely supported by objective survey data. If you doubt my conclusion, check out the CNN exit polls and the findings of the Pew Center.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-14 02:21AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Source, please.

by amiches 2008-05-13 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Where would you like me to start?

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-13 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I think this comment was for Nobama not you.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Ummmm... I don't know how to break this to you, but Obama KILLED Hillary in Virginia. WV is NOT the same thing as VA.

by fugazi 2008-05-13 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

I would agree that Obama's loss isn't due to some widespread racist epidemic in WV, but to base it on exit polls which would, essentially, ask voters to ADMIT to a STRANGER that they are RACIST?!?!?!?

Come on...of course that's underreported.

by freedom78 2008-05-13 04:45PM | 0 recs
or Over-reported

I have not checked dkos and freeperville for a while, is Kos doing another copy of Flush's Operation Chaos again?

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

All these demographic chewing talking points people spend so much time on are meaningless when you have the first ever viable female candidate vs. the first ever viable african american candidate.

Against a male candidate would Barack be loosing white women by the kind of margins he's lost them in so many states? I doubt it.

by Obama Independent 2008-05-13 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Some of you are hilariously dishonest with yourselves.

This is absolutely about race in a place like West Virginia.  If Obama had the physical look of John Edwards, this would probably be a blowout in the other direction. Because it would then be between a woman and a MAN.

A lot of these uneducated backcountry-folk do not see a BLACK man as someone in a position to lead.  It's just the way it is.

You better believe racism is still alive and well in this country.

by AlexScott 2008-05-13 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

does this include the back-country black folk voting for Obama 93%  ?  Talk about dishonest with yourself.

by atomic garden 2008-05-13 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Do you really beleive for AAs to vote for the first viable presidential candidate is racist?  And you do realise that at the start of the campaign the spilt was 60/40 don't you?  There is a reason that AA support deserted Clinton.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I have to laugh at this question every time it's posed.  As if black people don't vote for white people in nearly every election.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:36PM | 0 recs
If thats the game you want to play
then by your same logic, based on his 'physical appearance', Obama wouldn't have made it out of South Carolina. So are all the black voters in South Carolina voting on their racial preferences? If it IS about race, then Obama most certainly loses in the general election.
by linc 2008-05-13 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: If thats the game you want to play

Obama bloggers want it both ways, they just can't fathom that people do not like Obama.  Sorry, he peaked in February, deal with it.  Stop crying racism every time he gets beaten.

by atomic garden 2008-05-13 05:48PM | 0 recs
Re: If thats the game you want to play

We don't want to have it both ways, it IS both ways.  Different sentiments prevail in different parts of the country.  And not only that, but saying that some people won't vote for a black person does not mean that ALL people won't vote for a black person.

This is so elementary I shouldn't even have to explain it.  If the exit polls that say a quarter of Clinton voters said that race was a deciding factor in their vote, a number repeated nowhere else in the country by the way, that is a problem.

It doesn't mean that race is a deciding factor for you, personally.  Nor does it mean that it's prevalent everywhere.  It means precisely what it says:

In West Virginia, one-quarter of Clinton voters, when asked, said that the race of the candidates was a deciding factor in their decision.

Now if anyone can read that and still get "all Clinton voters are racists" out of it, then I give up.

by Jordache 2008-05-13 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: If thats the game you want to play

Oh man.

Do we REALLY need to name off all of the whitest of the white whitey states Obama has won?

Not including the inevitable Oregon?

Can you please name me one mostly-black state Hillary Clinton has won?

It's not that Obama can't get white voters.  He just has problems with the dummies.

Hillary Clinton can be queen of the dummies. If that's the title you want to give her, fine by me.  

by AlexScott 2008-05-13 05:51PM | 0 recs
well, that was the most kindergarten'd racist statement I have ever seen.
by linc 2008-05-13 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: If thats the game you want to play

Do you deny there is a link between bigotry of all types and level of education?  Because it is pretty clear that that is what is happening in WV.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: If thats the game you want to play

Look, I don't think people are saying that all--or even most--uneducated people are racist: many undeucated people are most emphatically NOT racist. I think they're saying that all or most racists are uneducated. I don't know how you can argue that.

by Mumphrey 2008-05-14 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]


My family is from Appalachia (WV and TN) and I can personally attest that the vast majority of them are racist in some degree. Not so unexpectedly, the older they are, more virulent their attitudes. Younger, college-aged folks, not so much.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-13 07:06PM | 0 recs
No, it's Hillary's rationale.

"Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again."

What's she going to say after he wins Oregon?

by sarahsaturn 2008-05-13 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

That quote makes me cringe to read.

Thank God this woman will never be president. She has turned me off completely all by herself.

It's seriously a shame she is going to tarnish Bill's legacy a bit by default.

by AlexScott 2008-05-13 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

no, actually the Obama campaigns race-baiting nonsense and Reagan loving speeches have tarnished the Clinton legacy.  Did you just start paying attention?  

by atomic garden 2008-05-13 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

Yep, all those race-baiting words that somehow Obama put in Hillary and Bill's mouth.  The man's magical powers are scary.

by shalca 2008-05-13 06:27PM | 0 recs
words like

'good campaign' or maybe 'intelligent' or quite a few others, which ones do you mean?

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

if he does, I'm sure she'll congratulate him... umm thats what you do in politics.

by atomic garden 2008-05-13 05:50PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

That's funny, he's done that after every Clinton win, even tonight in WV when he got her voicemail.  Hillary, on the other hand, has not congratulated him on every win.  Not a big deal.

What's more telling is how I feel she acts when she loses.  I have not seen a state where Obama has lost and not acknowledged the state or the people who worked hard on his behalf in that state.  On Clinton's side, it was glaring how she ignored Wisconsin, Virginia, Maryland, etc. and didn't even give a cursory "Thank You" to the people busting their ass in those states to get her elected.

by shalca 2008-05-13 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale.

source on that wild claim?

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: No, it's Hillary's rationale. 2008/02/19/clinton_defiant_after_wiscon si.html

"Clinton, who has lost more than a half-dozen primaries since Feb. 5, once again did not congratulate her rival as his victory in Wisconsin became official. She did not even acknowledge that voting had taken place that day, instead thanking the high school marching band." 8/02/12/clinton-still-no-congratulations -for-obama

"For the second election night in a row, Hillary Clinton failed to acknowledge or congratulate Barack Obama after he won the day in dominating fashion."

There's more out there, you just have to look.

by shalca 2008-05-13 07:03PM | 0 recs
by shalca 2008-05-13 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I'm confused:

Clinton goes on air the day after NC and ID and tells us that she's more electable because "hard working white Americans" vote for her more than Barack.  

Yet Obama is the one making this about race?  I'm baffled.

P.S.  Exit polls show 4 in 10 Clinton supporters say race was a factor (and that doesn't even count the Bradley effect). So...

by quixote27 2008-05-13 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

And just to clear the air before it begins, I'm not saying Clinton supporters are inherently racist or anything like that. I'm just kind of astounded by the argument that race is not playing a factor in this primary.

by quixote27 2008-05-13 05:55PM | 0 recs
I'm an Obama supporter,

and I've mentioned the gender-vote fact several times (both here, talking to friends at work and to my wife).

It's disgusting.  I mean, I'm not proud of any of those Democrats, the 25% or the 20%.  Shameful.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 07:00PM | 0 recs
For some Democratic voters, it is about race

Look, race was an "important factor" to 1 in 4 Clinton voters in the West Virginia primary (similarly depressing, gender was an "important factor" to 1 in 5 Obama voters). And this doesn't even cover voters who (1) lied about their reasoning or (2) acted subconsciously on their prejudices.

There are going to Democratic voters who will not vote for an African American candidate just because of his/her race, just like there are Democratic voters who will not vote for a female candidate just because of her gender.

Why can't we admit that? Why can't we talk about it?  Look, I don't think ALL Clinton supporters are racist!  But discussing the fact that voters in certain states are particularly prejudiced is okay, and when that prejudice materially affects election outcomes, it's something that should be addressed.

Hillary Clinton would have won West Virginia tonight even if we excluded all the bigots; that said, her margin of victory was bigger because of bigotry.  It's reasonable to acknowledge that fact.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: For some Democratic voters, it is about race

Both numbers are sad.  Is that additionally broken down by age groups?  I would hope the younger generation do not have the silly prejudices of the older.

by Tumult 2008-05-13 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]
Why can't progressives talk about race? 14/914
by politicsmatters 2008-05-13 05:59PM | 0 recs
Race was clearly a factor, so was sexism

Certainly not every vote was race based, but 20% of voters said race was a factor. Of those, two thirds voted for Hillary. Meaning 13% of the total votes were from people who refused to vote for the black guy. On top of this, 7% of voters refused to vote for EITHER a woman or a black guy.That's 20% of the vote tonight, total. Roughly about 75,000 votes when this is all totaled up. It's a shame, but that's the state of that part of the country right now.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-05-13 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Race was clearly a factor, so was sexism

and gender was a factor in at least 20% of BHO voters. will you ever pay attention to that too?

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Race was clearly a factor, so was sexism

Dude, did you read the title of my comment, or the content? Sheesh. I said 7% refused to vote for EITHER the woman or the black guy. West Virginia is not exactly the more progressive state in the union, thems the facts.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-05-13 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Race was clearly a factor, so was sexism

Just couldn't help yourself could you?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Tesas, you are right on. It's about Hillary. She's so much the better candidate. And, no, BO and the MSM, it's not always about BO!

by susanclare 2008-05-13 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

This conversation is incredibly frustrating. When Obama supporters say, "Look, 1/4 of Clinton voters in WV voted based on race," Clinton supporters immediately start griping about how that's unfair to WV and how we're somehow stereotyping West Virginians as "hillbillies."

Ah, no. What we're doing is saying that 25% on Hillary supporters in WV voted based on race. They are, by definition, racist.

Most Clinton voters in the USA aren't racist. 19 in twenty aren't.

But in this case, 1/4 are.

by motbob 2008-05-13 06:54PM | 0 recs
and also,

1 in 5 Obama voters in West Virginia thought gender was an "important factor" in their vote.

So, to recap West Virginia Democrats: 25% of voters voting for the white candidate think race is an important factor, and 20% of voters voting for the male candidate think gender is an important factor.

Umm........ WTF!??!?!  As a hater of both racism and sexism, I disapprove.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

and at least 20% of BHO voters are sexist. but hey, you go right ahead and try to blame it all on a 'factor' instead of the person running.

by zerosumgame 2008-05-13 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Interestingly, 20% of Clinton voters also said gender was an issue. I guess the girl sexists and the boy sexits cancelled each other out. (Though Clinton would have more actual sexists, since she received more votes).

What a strange world we live in. /west-virginia-exit-polls_n_101578.html

by Rationalisto 2008-05-13 07:11PM | 0 recs
I'm calling bullshit

When 25% of Clinton supporters say "race was a factor" that does not necessarily make them racist -- racist being defined as someone who believes their race is inherently superior.  

It could mean some of those folks better IDENTIFIED with Clinton because of race or were concerned that Obama, because of his race, would not be concerned for their needs.  This may be ignorant, but it isn't racist.

When 90% of AA voted for Obama in North Carolina it wasn't "racism" but certainly his race had something to do with the decision for a significant percentage.

Whenever you aren't running a white man, race and gender are going be both POSITIVE and negative factors.  SOME women are going to vote for Clinton mainly or only because they want to see a woman president. SOME Obama voters will voter against her (like my black female coworker) because they don't think women are fit to lead.
SOME Obama voters will turn out and vote ONLY because they want to see a black man elected president.  To pretend those voters do not exist totally undermines the credibility of an analysis of this.  And SOME Clinton voters will turn out and vote ONLY because thye can't tolerate a black man in the Whitehouse.  

It's a long leap from a nuanced complex approach to the outcomes that takes into account all the ways we can be motivated by race -- and the bullshit claim that 25% of Clinton voters are "racists."

Was the exit polling question "Do you think a black man can be qualified to be president?"  THAT question would be one about racism.  THIS question  ("Was race a factor..") allows for many other things.  

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-05-14 03:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm calling bullshit

Many very good points! To just automatically leap to the idea that people are racist when they take into account race is just not looking at reality.

Thanks for a well written comment.

by splashy 2008-05-14 11:38AM | 0 recs
I agree. It is not about race.

And they won't have any trouble voting for him in November.  Clinton's mantra about the white working class voter is false.   It is about being more comfortable voting for Clinton who has 16 years of name Recognition.  And is tied to the last Democratic President.

Thank you for clearing that up and admitting Hillary doesn't have a leg to stand on when she claims they are voting against him.  I never thought you would come around TD.  Congratulations on seeing the light.   Now if we could just work on Clinton and her attempts to invoke gender bias.

by Tumult 2008-05-13 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Well i know that in my distric in Tampa that I have voted for my Party (Democratic) and that every candidate local and state is an African American for county commision its Gwen Miller and for State Senate its Les Miller Mrs Millers husband and Arthenia Joyner and State Rep Betty Reed I voted for these people because they shared my values not because they were black or women and to have this primary be about race and gendor more than issues is a sad day for Democrats and to have my party to have this problem is  Beyond pathetic and as an white Gay male that is 50 yrs old now wonder should my vote be based on skin color or issues because I did'nt support the Women or African American I here racist or sexist or should I vote my race which would be McCain (not in my Life) so do I stay home or skip the vote for president and to have one of the Candidates say what we did in Florida on 1 /29/08 was nothing but a Beauty Contest was such a insult to me and the 1.7 millon who showed up to vote and after all all we have is one person one vote that is what i was taught in civics and it was not a privledge but my duty as a citizen and to have the Party I've voted for since i was 19 for Jimmy Carter to say my vote did'nt count was just about Enough to get me to leave this Party its time we get back to being the party of the people not the party of identity politics. Peace and Congraulations Senator Clinton for your win tonite I Know As A Gay Person my life became a lot more valued under your Husbands Presidency and that admitting you were Gay was Finally OK and I started having a voice so again Congratulations and Peace to everyone we kneed it!

by tpagy 2008-05-13 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Some punctuation might help - sorry, but this is unreadable.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]
The people who deny that it's not about race are out of touch and fooling themselves. "White working class" has long been known by Obama supporters to mean "not likely to vote for the black man."
Obama has the support of many white working class in states such as Wisconsin and Iowa. But there are states, such as Kentucky and West Virginia, Ohio and Pennsylvania, where racial tensions are high. Most of my relatives live in West Virginia and voting for a black person is a stretch for many there.
There were people who wouldn't even shake Obama's hand. Not sure if you missed the Washington Post story today. Here is this brilliant man still seen as just a black man. Incredible.
Yes, the media has been far behind the bloggers in pointing this out. They ganged up on Hillary only after she lost North Carolina. That's just the way the media is.
Obama supporters don't think twice about Wright because we all know that it was meant to distract the distractable.
Hillary did her job really well. She made it okay for "white working class" to not vote for Obama. Which is where Hillary lost me.
Many of the Hillary supporters missed the fact that it was the Hillary campaign that sent around the Wright memo to start:
But the thing is, all the hater people aren't going to matter in the general election. Obama's campaign is remaking the electoral map.
by lindsay 2008-05-13 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I worked in WV for Obama. It is 30-50% about race. If 21% say race mattered, another 10-20% lied when answering that question because it is embarrassing to admit that you are racist when someone is standing next to you with a pen and a writing pad.

It is what it is. WV has voted for Bush twice. It's a lost cause...these people cling to their bible and race. Sadly, they have moved backwards in time. They were becoming more "modern" and liberal before the dark ages hit them in 2000.

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 07:41PM | 0 recs
Not about race

Sure glad that Obama support among black has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.  Now, if one listens to the words of Michelle Obama - that African Americans who were not voting for Obama in the early part of the race were suffering from an inferiority complex due to all the negative that came their way because of their blackness AND that soon AAs would "get it", they would vote for Obama - one might think that race did indeed have something to do with Obama's numbers.   But no, that's just something that applies to whites.  AAs are voting in large percentages for Obama and that has nothing to do with his color OR the color of any of his opponents.

I'm learning.  

by Southern Mouth 2008-05-13 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Not about race

It does have to do with race - some AA vote for Obama because of his race. It is not racism. There are difference. Affinity, pride in finally seeing a viable AA that can become President.

Remember, AA voted for White Democrats at a 80-90% clip. Is that racism? They didn't support Jackson or Sharpton in any meaningful way. They supported Kerry and Gore.

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Not about race

Keep learning. You have lots to learn from your comments.

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Not about race
Indeed, you have a lot to learn from your comments.
This is the first time that African Americans have had the opportunity to vote for a black president and not just any black president but someone who is really special, someone who is brilliant, and someone who the majority see as the best candidate. But you wouldn't see that.
by lindsay 2008-05-13 07:56PM | 0 recs
Judging by the troll rate and comments

My education is continuing along the same line.

If whites vote for a white person BECAUSE he/she is white and they are proud of accomplishments and feel confident in their abilities, they are racist.

If AAs vote for an AA person BECAUSE he/she is AA and they are proud of accomplishments and feel confident in their abilities, they are not racist.

Really, it's only confirming what I've learned for years.  People make "facts" fit whatever it is they are comfortable believing.  THAT includes some horrible person who thought that maligning a black person simply because of the color of his skin was OK.  Convincing that person that his behavior was way out of line, terribly hurtful to his victim and to his own psyche as well, not going to be one whit helpful in improving relations within the human race, is extremely difficult.  Archie Bunkers do change.  I've seen it happen, but it seems rare.

by Southern Mouth 2008-05-13 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Judging by the troll rate and comments

I don't think its racsist that blacks vote for obama because he is black  because those same blacks voted for the white people in previous elections  so there goes that argument

by wellinformed 2008-05-13 09:06PM | 0 recs
In your opinion

However, it is not the opinion of many others.  My argument is not gone.  Neither is yours.

by Southern Mouth 2008-05-14 05:18AM | 0 recs
they say that Byrd has changed...

maybe it's the senility...

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

It's not about race

nor is it about gender

Let's move one from both of those claims.

by obsessed 2008-05-13 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

"I just saw a FOX News exit poll statistic that 77% of the people in West Virginia said race was NOT a factor in their vote. I absolutely believe them."

That means that 23% (almost one in four) said it did. You think 77% is a good number?

TexasDarlin = Republican.

I knew it. How much do you get paid for your fake Clinton blogging?

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

The West Virginians just pointed out the obvious; Hillary is their choice because they connect to them.

Do you want a President who doesn't care about you?

by SHIBAM8P 2008-05-13 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

So a state with 97% whites. Almost no blacks, hispanics, or any other American demographic is representative of the USA? I guess people in VA, SC, MI, IL, WI, GA, MN, NE, KS, etc are not American.

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I have yet to actually read that WV voters are racists, but this is about the 20th post I've read telling people to stop calling it racism. Seriously, we get it, it's not racism. Hillary appeals to low education, low income voters. Yes, Obama should try to make inroads before November. Not revelatory.

by mattw 2008-05-13 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Did you walk in WV? Tell me? Where you there with me after my 6 hour drive and got the welcome I got? No? Then shut the he_l up and listen to people who live there and who were told that they wouldn't vote for a black man - ever in their face. Like they told me. I am not black.

Read this: tent/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014. html?nav=hcmodule

But it doesn't matter. Obama will win regardless of the few racist Americans. We non-racist people will win in the long run and keep making the country better.

by comingawakening 2008-05-13 08:00PM | 0 recs
WV and Appalachia

started some of the abolitionist movement too...

People there are proud folk, and a lot of them are proud to NOT be racist.

the others... well, all I have to say is, if you had their life, you might not be much better.

Pogroms happen to everyone, poverty is constant. It isn't just Jews who burn.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

So 20 percentage of the democratic voters said race was important, in a state with 3% African Americans, and Hillary wins that 20 percent by 85% and  Im to deduce from that that race wasnt a factor????

I agree with others, there is a huge difference between African Americans voting FOR Obama out of pride and some white democrats voting AGAINST him because hes black.   And its sad to see some trying to legitimize it.    There wouldnt be a democratic party, there would never of been a President Clinton without African Americans voting 90% democratic.   Its sad to see a small percentage of the democratic party that happily takes that overwhelming African American support every year, yet when one of their own has a shot, these voters say they cant vote for the black guy.   Sad.  Very Sad.  

by realistdem 2008-05-13 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

How about those voting for Clinton because of pride in women? They are denigrated by many because supposedly they are not voting the issues.

For me, it's about health care, plain and simple. Obama has only half a plan. Fix his plan to cover EVERYONE, and I will overlook the BS about gender that his crowd put out.

by splashy 2008-05-14 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

HRC won WV.

Not just a win--a rout.


The fate of the Nation, imperiled though it is, does not ride on the outcome of the West Virginian Democratic Primary.

If HRC can sustain this and win Kentucky (check, done), Oregon (not so much), South Dakota (looks like a no), Montana (another no), and Puerto Rico (probably), we'll have a little something to talk about.  Not just win--win at least as convincingly as she won today.

I'll bet a dollar she doesn't win another state by this margin.

I'll bet two she doesn't secure the Democratic nomination for President.

I'll bet three that Barack Obama is the 44th President of these United States.

I'll bet four that not one Hillary supporter will talk about the win by Childers in MS-01 despite the fact that the Republicans threw Obama/Wright at him over the airwaves constantly, sent Huckabee to campaign there, AND sent Dick Cheney there for a solid day.  Even the spector of Obama/Wright, in a GOP +10 district that went for Bush above 60%, failed to sway the outcome of a decidedly Republican district in Mississippi.  As it failed in Louisiana in a similarly solid GOP district.  As it failed in Illinois in former Speaker Haster's district.  So much for the junior Senator from Illinois being Electoral poison.

I'll bet five that someone troll-rates my post.

by AK Democrat 2008-05-13 08:15PM | 0 recs
Didn't Chllders disassociate himself from Obama.

by laternighter 2008-05-13 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Didn't Chllders disassociate himself from Obam

The point is even in tidy southern MS, the GOP tried to nationalize the race--and failed.


by AK Democrat 2008-05-13 08:34PM | 0 recs
How come when black voters vote in mass numbers

for Obama it's not about race but just pride.  But when white voters vote for Clinton it's about race.

by laternighter 2008-05-13 08:27PM | 0 recs
Why is affirmative action

not the same as white supremacy?

by JJE 2008-05-13 08:28PM | 0 recs
Only you can answer that question.

by laternighter 2008-05-13 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: How come when black voters vote in mass number

You answered you're own question - it's about pride.  Do you find that difficult to understand?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-13 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: How come when black voters vote in mass number

Who the black and the white voters.

by laternighter 2008-05-13 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: How come when black voters vote in mass number


by interestedbystander 2008-05-14 01:31AM | 0 recs
It's not just about pride

it's about finding someone who understands White Priviledge, in all its forms. Maybe he'll be able to do something about it (who knows), but at least he'll know the feeling of being stalked by a security guard.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: How come when black voters vote in mass number

"...when white voters vote for Clinton it's about race"

You're suggesting women aren't voting for Hillary to help her make history?!

by eliot 2008-05-14 08:15AM | 0 recs
Appalachia is Clinton's best region

Almost every county where Hillary won more than 65% of the vote is in Appalachia (see the maps in this article; the grey of West Virginia now gets filled in in Hillary's favor, of course).  There are many solidly-white regions of the country that went strongly for Obama.

That's simply a fact.  I don't think that it's simply a matter of racism (though given the number of people who explicitly tell Obama volunteers "I would never vote for that n****r" it's certainly a factor with at least some people); many demographic factors seem to combine in Hillary's favor.  Judging by the maps, Hillary will get 70% of eastern Kentucky as well, the west will be closer, and Obama will win Oregon handily.

by Joe Buck 2008-05-13 08:30PM | 0 recs
Obama no longer wins
in groups where he did previously.  He won big in white states that were caucuses where activist overwhelm the situation and there is tiny turn out.  He won those BEFORE he stuck his foot in his mouth about Clingy white people and before his minister's race hatred was exposed to the general public.  
In fact Obama doesn't win against McCain in any of those states consistently. Clinton beats McCain in the states where she won Primaries (not tiny small attendance caucuses)
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-14 01:43AM | 0 recs
It's about race

Saying it isn't is just being naive.  I do think that Obama needs to try harder to overcome this racism but there is racism nonetheless.

by puma 2008-05-13 08:55PM | 0 recs

Here's a shocker.  I agree with you that it's not about race.

In my opinion it's about change.  Americans really want to put the disastrous policies of the Bush administration behind them.  I know this is just the primary but the record turnout is a demonstration of just how invested in this election we Democrats are.  We've been disgruntled, angry, even furious about what the Republicans have done to our country.  We've waited 8 years...8 very long show the Republicans just how sick of them we are.

I predict the Democrats win in November in a landslide.  Not only that, I predict we win the downticket races too.

Will both Clinton and Obama be on the ticket?  Don't know and don't think it matters.  We'll beat the republicans anyway.  It's a wonderful year to be a Democrat.

by GFORD 2008-05-13 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Convenient as it may be for Barack Obama to blame his embarrassing defeat in West Virginia on racism, that's wrong and offensive. Stop using the race card, please.

We know (and I, like you, darlin, believe the exit polls) the vast majority of working-class voters for Hillary in West Virginia and rural Pennsylvania are not racists (contrary to SNL). It's not about race (although there always are a few racists floating around) but far more about class. This constituency that just swept Hillary to an enormous victory in W Va (as it did in PA) is struggling economically and looking for economic leadership and solutions they believe Hillary Clinton can deliver and thus bring them, uh, hope.

By contrast, Obama (not knowing how to connect with them) has virtually abandoned these voters whom he described as "bitter" in his SF speech. He wasn't being "elitist" so much as "hopeless."

This man who orates about "unity" and "hope" is apparently too fearful/resentful of rural working-class voters (maybe he watches too much SNL and media pundits and thinks they're racist, who knows?) to reach out to them and offer some positive economic hope, just the antidote needed to help them overcome the dire economic conditions that can lead to xenophobia and racism. This is a core issue. Obama is looking straight into the heart of the matter and not seeing what he must do. But Hillary has always seen it and her voice resounds to working-class and middle-class voters viscerally. Can Barack learn from Hillary how to connect with this constituency and not -- dare I say -- abandon hope?

by purr 2008-05-14 01:33AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

"too fearful/resentful of rural working-class voters" ??

What nonsense.

FIrst of all, Obama didn't campaign in WV. Period. No question about it, that hurt him.

In TX, OH, PA, IN -- Hillary had commanding leads in all those states and was expected to win by double digits. Look at the results after Obama campaigned there:

TX: Obama 47.4%      Clinton  50.9% (3.5%)
OH: Obama 44.8%      Clinton  53.5% (8.7%)
PA: Obama 45.4%      Clinton  54.6% (9.2%)
IN: Obama 49.4%      Clinton  50.6% (1.2%)

Secondarily, you can't ignore the connection between the age of voters & Hillary's success either: FL, PA, WV are the top 3 "oldest" populations in the country. And the residents of those Appalachian regions of OH, PH, IN, SC, NC, VA where Hillary did well are disproportionately "older." Fewer of them went have more than a high school education, and they are economically distressed. They were more comfortable with the person they knew (a Clinton) than with the black man they didn't know.  

Doesn't hurt that what they think they know about Obama was largely the product of scurrilous right-wing propaganda.

by eliot 2008-05-14 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race

Didn't campaign? Didn't he spend twice as much as Clinton there? Sounds like campaigning to me!

by splashy 2008-05-14 12:53PM | 0 recs
Are There No WhiteWorking People in States Barack

already won?

Are there no blue-collar, white-working class people in Iowa, Maryland, Virginia, Kansas, Washington, Delaware, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, Colorado and the 30+ states that Barack won?

Or in these 30+ states that Barack won, are there only high-class, surburban people of leisure, college graduates and African-Americans?

And, is that what They want us to believe -- that in the 30+ states Barack has won, that there are no blue-collar, white-working class people in any of those states? I thought that white people were a majority in America, not a minority!

by bacalove 2008-05-14 03:54AM | 0 recs
Another Obama double standard

Race can only be discussed on Obama's terms.  Anyone else mentions it, they're racist or race baiting.

Not to mention the paradox of Obama being praised for transcending race with his campaign while at the same time being lauded for having the courage to introduce a national discussion on race (hear my sarcastic tone, please), all while not wanting to be the "black candidate" yet winning due largely to the AA vote and losing apparently due to racist whites.

Good grief!

by Juno 2008-05-14 04:55AM | 0 recs
Unfortunately, 22% of WV voters cited

"race" as being important to them.

They almost all voted for Sen. Clinton.

MSNBC this morning.

Sorry, Tex.


by chrisblask 2008-05-14 05:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Unfortunately, 22% of WV voters cited

So it was a factor for a minority of people, but I stand by my analysis that the magnitude of BO's loss in WV is due to the other stuff.  If those 22% had voted for BO instead, it would have still been a 20-point loss for him.

Last night I heard Rove analyzing the race -- and yes, I know who he is but I think he's been balanced as a FOX commentator -- he said that race was a minor factor but that W. Virginians don't vote for people they perceive to be elitists, which is why neither Kerry nor Gore got their vote but bill Clinton did.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-14 05:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Unfortunately, 22% of WV voters cited

I agree, most of the numbers are for other reasons.  

DawnT did a very good job of talking about some of them the other day, and even moreso the broader issue of Progressives getting "elitist" - a topic I could not agree more with (see my ad nauseum explanations in other threads).

I do not even harbor ill-will towards those 22% or the related black folks who support Obama for equally uninspiring reasons.  They aren't necessarily bad people - just sadly wrong on an important issue.  They can change their minds when the realize the error of their ways.

But it is a stretch to conclude that the bulk of WV will vote for Sen. McCain if they can't vote for Sen. Clinton - or, for that matter, that voters in any other state will do so either.

It will be approaching-impossible for the Republican party to win the White House come Nov.  It is only possible for the Democratic party to lose it.



by chrisblask 2008-05-14 06:57AM | 0 recs
a third of them voted obama

... the ones that care about race.

I'm proud of that.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 06:55AM | 0 recs
Re: a third of them voted obama

Thanks for the detail, but I'm not proud of any of them anymore than I am those who vote on gender.

I understand (both the pro- and con-voters), but it is a sad statement either way.  Some of my most valued friends have given me the "I'm not missing my chance to vote for a woman" argument and all it does is add an unpleasant weight to the old shoulders.

When we all vote for the second woman - the second black/jewish/atheist/.. candidate, I hope we can get past that flawed reasoning.  It is hard to imagine Thomas Jefferson being overly proud of anyone for using these arguments.


by chrisblask 2008-05-14 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: a third of them voted obama

I understand you logic, but I'm going to bet that most of the time that you vote, you are voting for someone who shares your gender and race.

If that seemed unfair, well so does your attitude of downing people who embraced the first real opportunity to vote outside of their normal political spectrum because they wanted to vote for the first black/woman president.

by xodus1914 2008-05-14 08:02AM | 0 recs
And I was specifically talking about the WHITE

voters. I am just as proud of men who want to vote for a woman.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 08:35AM | 0 recs
As a white guy it has been unfortunately

rare that I get a chance to vote for anyone who isn't my race or gender, and prior to Obama I have not supported the tiny handful of other choices I've been presented with.

But my support for Obama is not either a vote for my race (which we don't share) or my gender (which we do).  Nor is it a vote for some nebulous liberal guilt - I just happen to think that the guy is an amazing leader.

I'm even crossing ideological lines for it - I am a past-Dem post-liberal moderate who has been arguing more to the right for many years (god I hate that imaginary linear political spectrum).

As I say, I can understand folks voting for race or gender (either for or against), but I cannot bring myself to approve of it whether they think it is a positive or negative vote.


by chrisblask 2008-05-14 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Unfortunately, 22% of WV voters cited

And if we took that 22% and put it back in Obama's column, he would have still lost by 20 points.

sorry, chris.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-14 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Unfortunately, 22% of WV voters cited

Not saying he would have won - Sen. Clinton won fair and square.

This was just a debate about whether race was an issue.  It was, and we'll all work on that going forward.

Night Tex!


by chrisblask 2008-05-14 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Since late February, HRC has focused much of her campaign on the fears and hopes of white blue collar voters.  Kudos to her.  

But, having lived for many years in Western PA and traveled a good bit in SE Ohio and West Virgina, I think it is undeniable that a mix of race, culture, and education have stacked the deck in those areas against Obama.  As you point out, Obama could have done a better job of trying to connect with those voters.  The bitter comment was certainly a self-inflicted wound.  But to deny that Clinton has an advantage in those areas because she is white, and Obama is black, is not realistic.  

That doesn't make more than a small minority of HRC's supporters in those areas 'rascist.'  That they would never vote for a black man etc.  But it does mean that BO has an extra hill to climb, and HRC has an advantage.  I admit that in my own mind, it's hard to define where rascism begins or ends.  I do think it is more complicated than many on this board argue.  

by Kensingtonbill 2008-05-14 05:50AM | 0 recs
White Priviledge is always with us

either we fight it or we don't.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I agree with Josh Marshall (TPM): it's about the people of Appalachia: a culturally isolated, predominantly older, relatively less educated and yes, racially biased segment of American society that encompasses WV and the borderline, hill country regions of NY, PA, OH, KY, TN, AL, GA, SC, VA, & NC.

You also have to wonder how different it might have turned out if Obama had actually campaigned in WV. Hillary was way, way ahead in all those states before their elections, and she didn't even break double digits in any of them. And in IN - after her initial double-digit lead there - she barely won 1%.

More to the point of the original post: if people only watch FOX and listen to right-wing radio stations that broadcast the spew of Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage (not to mention the Christian Nationalist brands), you're darn right they'll still believe Obama is an unpatriotic racist African Liberation Theory Muslim, or whatever the hell they callit, no matter what he says or how many times he says it.

by eliot 2008-05-14 07:49AM | 0 recs
He ain't been to my part of PA

... Racists abound. Sorry, but they do. Some of them are still good people.

by RisingTide 2008-05-14 06:46AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Some voters did financially well during the Clinton administration (I did) and some voters don't appreciate Obama, the media and the Democratic party going after the Clintons. Some voters resent that. (I do)

by soyousay 2008-05-14 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

I believe it's not about race using myself as an example. I've voted for black men in the past, when it was apparent to me that the black man in the race was the superior candidate.

My mind doesn't process black and white in qualifying a person for a job. It doesn't really process flag pins, either. It does process what this person has done in the past in relation to his work that qualifies him for the job he's applying for.

In the case of Obama, he has no job history that qualifies him for the job of president. Hillary, on the other hand, has a flood of positive history that qualifies her for the job of president.

by LA 2008-05-14 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]

Hiallry's job history? Where?

by xodus1914 2008-05-14 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not About Race [Updated]
I live in Virginia. I would give this diary a lot more credit if WV didn't have a ex-klansman as a senator, and an sctive, if not subdued Klan population.
C'mon folks, two candiates with virtually identical positions. Argruably, CLinton has been more caustic towards Obama in recent weeks, and the polls start out with her up by 40%?
Coupled with a very homogenous population? And nobody thinks anything is up?
The brutal fact is that any state that would go that hard for Hillary over Barack would go twice as hard for McCain over Hillary.
by xodus1914 2008-05-14 07:56AM | 0 recs
and the #1 reason Obama lost WV is ...

(from TPM Election Central)

1.  73% of West Virginians think Obama agrees with disturbing teaching of radical black pastor, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.

by obsessed 2008-05-14 02:37PM | 0 recs
Let's ask West Virginians whether it's about race

by obsessed 2008-05-14 02:41PM | 0 recs
20% voting against Obama b/c of race

is a pretty large number and you don't believe its about race...  Its one thing to suggest that supporters want a woman or AA in the WH because its uplifting and provides positive role-models, etc, that has no negative implications but to vote against someone because they are black is simply racist.  I'm sure that the number is much larger than that.  Those are the only people that would admit to it.  Of course, Senator Clinton does have appeal and we can't deny her that but 2 in 10 is a pretty large number.

by mishiem 2008-05-14 03:21PM | 0 recs
The exit polls refute your statement

over 20% polled said race was a valid consideration in their vote...this is very high considering many more are less than willing to admit it...therefore it raises the number fairly high...but sure tell the story like you want to believe it can't fool those of us who are more grounded in reality..that goes for both sides...not all supporters of either candidate are willfully ignorant.

by netgui68 2008-05-14 04:06PM | 0 recs


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