Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Finally.  I am relieved and grateful that one of the Clintons is vocally fighting back against the widespread hostility and disrespect aimed at Hillary Clinton, the presidential candidate for whom more people have voted than any other presidential primary candidate in history.

As reported by ABC News:

Former President Bill Clinton in South Dakota today delivered a harsh critique of how his wife has been treated during her presidential bid, telling the crowd that he has "never seen a candidate treated so disrespectfully just for running," and that, "she will win the general election if you nominate her. They're just trying to make sure you don't."

Clinton spent more than six minutes calmly discussing what he called a "frantic effort to push her out" of this race, saying that no one asked Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson or Gary Hart to end their presidential campaigns early.

Well, what about that?

Why are Obama and his backers and the mainstream media so afraid?  Why are they acting terrified of Hillary Clinton?  Maybe because she leads in the popular vote, the electoral math, and the national polls?  Even though the mass media are trying desperately to make her invisible?

The rest of the story from ABC is valuable reading:

President Clinton also spoke against bullying superdelegates to make up their minds, saying, "I cant believe it. It is just frantic the way they are trying to push and pressure and bully all these superdelegates to come out. 'Oh, this is so terrible: The people they want her. Oh, this is so terrible: She is winning the general election, and he is not. Oh my goodness, we have to cover this up.'"

Speaking to a crowd of about 200 in Fort Thompson, S.D., Clinton seemed slightly subdued during his 30-minute speech, which largely focused on the issues important to the Native American community.  As he wrapped up his remarks, a woman in the audience asked him a question about voting for Hillary Clinton.  

"If you vote for her and she does well in Montana and she does well in Puerto Rico, when this is over she will be ahead in the popular vote," Clinton said. "And they're trying to get her to cry uncle before the Democratic Party has to decide what to do in Florida and Michigan because they are claiming that it only takes 2029 votes on the first ballot to win, and it takes a lot more than that if you put Florida and Michigan back in. Well, they will have to unless we want to lose the election. I mean, look, so there is that that is going on."

The former president was strong in his assertion that his wife has the best chance to win against Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, arguing that many electoral map predictions have his wife winning more electoral votes than Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., the Democratic frontrunner, in a general election.

"She is winning the general election today and he is not, according to all the evidence," Clinton said. "And I have never seen anything like it. I have never seen a candidate treated so disrespectfully just for running. Her only position was, "Look, if I lose I'll be a good team player. We will all try to win but let's let everybody vote and count every vote.'"

Clinton also strongly criticized the media, saying that ever since Iowa they have been against his wife, making him feel as though he was living in a "fun house." As he concluded his thoughts on how this election has been handled, he again went back to the media's choice of coverage.  

"If you notice, there hasn't been a lot of publicity on these polls I just told you about," Clinton said. "It is the first time you've heard it? Why do you think that is? Why do you think?  Don't you think if the polls were the reverse and he was winning the electoral college against Sen. McCain and Hillary was losing it, it would be blasted on every television station? You would know it wouldn't you? It wouldn't be a little secret. And there is another Electoral College poll that I saw yesterday had her over 300 electoral votes, yeah. She will win the general election if you nominate her. They're just trying to make sure you don't."

Bill Clinton is correct, and it sounds to me like we're going to the convention.  And why not?  Neither candidate will reach the  number of pledged delegates required before then to secure the nomination, and Hillary Clinton has the mandate of the people behind her.  By at least two metrics, she is leading in the popular vote, and GE polls consistently indicate that she is the stronger candidate against John McCain.

As for party unity, the disrespect aimed at Hillary Clinton only worsens the backlash effect already underway among Hillary Democrats. When she's attacked, her supporters feel attacked, and it's a horrible mistake to assume that Hillary Democrats will rally 'round Obama once she's been kicked aside.  Not going to happen, not in a million years.

Note:  emphasis added in blockquotes.

Cross posted at TexasDarlin

Tags: Convention, Democratic nomination, Electability, general election, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, map not math, meet me in denver, polls, popular vote (all tags)

Comments

238 Comments

Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Thanks for telling it like it is, Bill.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 01:10PM | 0 recs
Great diary TD
tipped and rec'd.


by linc 2008-05-25 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

Ha! The fact that you support this racist says EVERYTHING about you.  Here I was starting to think that maybe just maybe you weren't like the so-called white feminist supporters of Hillary but you are just as bad.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-25 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

this diarist also supports well known trolls as well.

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:28PM | 0 recs
you need to get a grip

Did you read your own comment before you posted it?  TD is not a racist and you know it.  The whole of the democratic party is not against you.  "white feminists" are not out for you either. relax, deep breathe, count backwards from 10.

by linc 2008-05-25 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

No, she is a racist and has actually been banned here from my understanding because of her racist comments.  Unfortunately the admins allowed themselves to be coerced by a group of folks here to get her back online.  Have you check out her website about OBama and his "gorilla wife" Michelle?

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-25 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Wait, really?  Do you have a link???

She's got a website that drops racism like that and is taken seriously?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

No, sweet potato pie is lying, otherwise known as slander.  I have never said or written any such thing.  See my comment downthread.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Wellllll I agree with what she says about 99% of the time, and I disagree with what you say about 99% of the time, but as they say on the internet, link or stfu...

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 02:56PM | 0 recs
I don't know about racism

but scumbaggery of the worst kind:

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 29/mystery-man-obama

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

Ugh.  That's pretty bad.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

Did you find anything "racist" in there?

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 03:05PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

There's a diary with a video on the first page of your site which shows terrorist incidents and tries to connect Obama to them by raising the specter of Islam.  

I suppose it's just "art"?

by freedom78 2008-05-25 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

which video?

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

Something called "Clear and Present Danger" (which borrows heavily from the film of the same name).

It says "The #1 terrorist is the President of the United States of America" while showing a picture of Obama.  It says "his past never stopped looking for him" while showing a building blowing up.

by freedom78 2008-05-25 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

Racist?  No.  Yellow journalism?  Check.  But thankfully, nothing the non-tinfoilhatters will ever worry about.   I'd expect to read that stuff on Ann Coulter's site, not a Democrat's.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know about racism

"Did you find anything "racist" in there?"

I'd call it vile right-wing talking points. Pretty shameful. This man will be our nominiee. Do you understand that? You are throwing stones at OUR nominee.

by fugazi 2008-05-25 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Wait, really?  Do you have a link???

She's got a website that drops racism like that and is taken seriously?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Sorry about the 2x post there.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

eh, sorta.

she has a horrible and horribly racist blog of her own, and she's taken seriously enough to be perma-rec on mydd... for what that's worth, nowadays.

by notxjack 2008-05-25 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

You drop a comment like that and you'd best come up with specifics and details, like a link to actual "horribly racist" content.

by Montague 2008-05-25 08:23PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

sweet potato pie, I'm going to break my new policy of not responding to crap like this to say emphatically that I have never written or uttered any such thing about Michelle Obama.  What you're doing is called slander and it's uncool to say the least.

Just because I don't like your candidate, I'm a "racist?"  That just reeks of desperation politics.  Is that what you've learned in this campaign, that's it acceptable to throw around charges of "racism" when you're feeling frustrated?

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Pot meet kettle.

Just because I don't support YOUR candidate doesn't mean I'm sexist.

by yankeeinmemphis 2008-05-25 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: you need to get a grip

Okay...but there is misogynist treatment of her.  I don't know you, so I would have no basis to accuse you personally of sexism; I'll take your word for it that you prefer Obama for other reasons.  What's your point?

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 02:11PM | 0 recs
Attacking the diarist is grounds for

being banned from the site.

by Molee 2008-05-25 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

Ditto that.

I absolutely adore Bill! :o)

by alegre 2008-05-25 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

You must like serial women abusers then.

by telfishbackagain 2008-05-25 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

from your screen name you are a zombie of a user banned before. huh, I wonder why...

by zerosumgame 2008-05-25 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

Right, Alegre. Bill Clinton salvaged the Demoratic Party and brought Reagan Democrats back into the fold; he re-built the party's base by reaching out to all Democrats.  I have a feeling that many of the Obama bloggers trashing Bill Clinton -- in itself terribly disrespectful to trash a former President -- are just too young to appreciate his legacy.  Regardless, to the majority Democrat voting bloc, it's offensive to say the least to see Bill Clinton treated like crap by Obama supporters.  That will backfire; it has already.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-26 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary TD

Thanks Linc.  Hillary deserves to be treated with the utmost respect and dignity, and she has not been.  That has created a huge backlash among her supporters,especially women.  It would not surprise me to see that energy turn into an alternative party for Democrats -- perhaps with women at the core.  When party elite such as Ted Kennedy say that Hillary "is not in tune with the nobler aspects of Americans," that leaves bitter feeling behind that won't be easily salved.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-26 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Sound familiar.

by telfishbackagain 2008-05-25 02:44PM | 0 recs
Respect

Respect isn't given, it's earned, and I have to tell you, Texasdarlin, that here in the UK (and I suspect many other places too) Hillary has really squandered a LOT of respect. There is definitely misogyny in SOME comments I have read, but the MOST anti-Hillary people are often women who thing she has used and abused feminist principles for personal political gain.

If you want to know the tipping points that created this disrespect, global in its dimensions, I would say they are these, in ascending order of importance.

1. Emphasing 'hard working whites' in a race against a black candidate.

  1. Constantly moving goalposts over a bewildering variety of metrics
  2. Appearing insincere and capable of saying anything to win.

I won't go through the details of these, so not to rake over the ashes, but it comes down to 'how far you go to win'.

Everyone likes a winner. But someone who tries to win unfairly loses everyone's respect.

Sorry. That's just how it is over here. I wrote a diary about how my daughter has lost all support for her. You could say that was the MSM - but the coverage is less partisan over here. I asked her why she changed her tune, and what my daughter said was simply; "I don't trust her."

That from the mouth of a fifteen year old girl, who has never been persuaded of anything by her father.

For the sake of your candidate, for the sake of women who will run for the presidency in the future, I think it behoves all true feminists to start asking themselves where Hillary went wrong, rather than blaming the whole world (and many millions of women too) for not buying her campaign

by duende 2008-05-25 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Respect
  1. She was referring to poll numbers and pundits were saying the same thing.  It happens to be true information that she is winning a greater percentage of white voters.
  2. Tragic.  She has the right to continue in this race and make her case to the superdelegates.
  3. Thanks to the Obama campaign's wholesale adoption of rightwing smear attacks.  
Straight from David Axelrod's mouth: "'They are literally willing to do anything" to win.
"When you wink and nod at offensive statements you're really sending a signal to your supporters that anything goes."
That's the kind of slander against her character they've been telling the press the entire campaign.  I'm sorry that your daughter doesn't trust her, I'm even sorrier that Obama's surrogates have been telling the press flat out for months that you can't trust her - and getting away scot-free with that.
by daria g 2008-05-25 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Respect

It's not slander if it's the truth.  You remember truth, don't you?

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-25 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Bill,

Tell us how "respectful" cheating on your wife is since you seem to be such an expert on who is being disrespectful.

by rf7777 2008-05-25 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

TR'd by beet.  nice.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-26 06:17AM | 0 recs
YAWN!

Why are the Clintons a bunch of whiners???

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:11PM | 0 recs
why are you

so immature?

by linc 2008-05-25 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

so bitter?

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

typical, maybe?  I don't know, you tell me- I don't know you- are you always so immature?  Is it typical?

by linc 2008-05-25 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

I don't know I have to check what my book says on things that I have to run and duck under.  

Shit was that sniper comment a little too much??

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:18PM | 0 recs
If you can't take the heat

get out of the kitchen.

Hillary Clinton's "heat/kitchen" ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt6W3rVTL hw

This is politics. The media narrative is integral to the messaging.

Gotcha moments are just that.Careless errors taking out of context.

The Clinton's know how the MSM feeds on this.

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-25 01:21PM | 0 recs
She is taking the heat ...

and quite well, I might add. That's one of the reasons why she has won such loyalty and repect from blue collar men, women, Latinos, etc. People respect a fighter; people respect her courage4 and tenacity in the face of an MSM and shrill bloggers who've been trying to push her out of this race for months.

by Inky 2008-05-25 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

Bill and Hillary Clinton are the immature ones. It's been a long time since my abnormal psych classes but they seem to be classic cases of narcissistic personality disorder with a dash of paranoia and delusion thrown in. But I guess  that could just be part of their NPD.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:17PM | 0 recs
As far as the TR goes

it comes from someone with paranoid delusions about a race war so it's not a surprise that a loon like that would TR my comment. If anyone wants to look up the DSM statement on NPD they'd see it fits.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

Seems Bill is guilty of this himself:

[Apr 8, 1992] Clinton's showing yesterday convinced many Democrats that, even with the depth of concern about his character and his ability to win in November within his own party, his nomination is now all but assured. "Bill Clinton is the presumptive nominee," declared Mark Mellman                   by Tatan

by venician 2008-05-25 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

Well they were right to be concerned about his character.

Now that Clinton's VP chances are dead I guess they won't need to vet Bill and his buddy Burkle but I was looking forward to hearing about their trips. Among other things.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

if you think there is something nefarious about Burkle, you have just damned the Democratic Party, as Burkle has contributed a hell of lot of money, time & support to the Democratic party over the years.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-25 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

He is a rapist. I don't call that a positive contribution to the democratic party. Oh and yes, there are pictures.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-25 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

are you reading freeper again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Burkle

by colebiancardi 2008-05-25 01:39PM | 0 recs
you're lucky I cannot hide rate you

you piece of Republican trash. Only they call a GREAT AND HONORABLE MAN like Bill Clinton such names. You ought to get banned from this site for saying that. I'm sure if you went to Free Republic, they'd ban you for saying that about Dubya. Especially if you believe that liar Broaddick and Jones. They have been discredited, as have most Clinton haters.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: you're lucky I cannot hide rate you

Stay classy. I could easily call you white trash but I'll refrain.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-25 03:26PM | 0 recs
you want to insult my race now?

you racist? You were gonna call me "white trash?" I'd hate to think what would happen if I did something similar to you.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: you want to insult my race now?

Nice. Threaten to throw out the N word.  Really cool.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-26 07:49AM | 0 recs
you SLANDERED him.

you accused him of a heinous felony without any basis.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 04:46PM | 0 recs
I never called anyone a rapist

which is a lot worse than being called a "redneck." I only used that term because Republicans tend to call him such, and red states are usually southern states, most of the GOP voters being rednecks. OK I didn't really mean it, because I know nothing about you, but calling someone a rapist is a severe allegation that unless it is true, should not be thrown around, especially about such a great man as Bill Clinton.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 07:02PM | 0 recs
citizen's arrest.

dj - they are being nasty and thus i am tr those that make personal attacks, but so are you.  sorry, but i gotta do it.

by canadian gal 2008-05-25 05:40PM | 0 recs
i was sticking up for what is RIGHT

and when you use Ken Starr talking points, you are no longer worthy of being treated as a person.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 07:15PM | 0 recs
maybe so...

but if we want to stop the bullying, spamming and try to elevate the discussion here - we cannot attack other users...  people are pissing you off - slap them with the substance of their comments.  i have taken to TR those that break the site rules and hope that the admins will do the rest.  you with me?

by canadian gal 2008-05-25 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

We the people are the contributors to the Democratic party. Burkle is reportedly a scumbag.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

Actually there really are some fairly unsavoury photos circulating of Clinton on Burkle's plane with his arm around a 19 year old.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-25 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

All this vitriolic bashing of Bill Clinton. . .

That's some bizzarro uniter you have in Obama.  He's successfully split the party in two.  

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: why are you

That's called projection. Bill's problem is probably called narcissistic personality disorder. He brings the criticism on himself.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 08:41PM | 0 recs
LINC

by PD1769 2008-05-25 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

It really is sad what Bill has become. I heard about this speech he gave today so I went and read the text of it.

Bill has turned into a stark raving lunatic - most of his speech didn't even make sense and was FULL of inaccuracies. It was beyond pathetic.

by Deano963 2008-05-25 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

Well I've only seen reports on it but what he said things that are so wrong that if he's not lying he's delusional.  Not sure which one is better/worse.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

Come on now.

Bill Clinton's foundation has helped millions of people.  While not as good as Carter, he has been a pretty good retired president.

Yes, he's a womanizer and I would be surprised if that ever stopped.  He's made lots of money and I have no idea if it is all savory or not.

But to say he is insane is insane.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-25 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

Ok, ok ok.  I love Obama, and am firmly behind doing whatever it takes to seal the deal for him.  But I also have love for Bill, and regardless of how I feel about this campaign at this moment in time, that's not going to go anywhere.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

You're friends clearly hate Bill Clinton's guts.  

I liked the Democratic Party better when it was controlled by Democrats.  

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

opps,  "your"

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:29PM | 0 recs
Obamabots are my FRIENDS!

Sorry.

I'm a popular guy, but I don't have 17,000,000 friends.

My cat would like Bill Clinton, though.  She has this weird thing for guys with white hair.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-25 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

FULL of inaccuracies?

Name one.  Please.

by daria g 2008-05-25 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

He claimed she is leading in the popular vote. Any more brain busters?

by Deano963 2008-05-25 05:47PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

I agree.  Sad.  He was an Ok president and now he has wasted what little political clout and capital he had left on ... on... well nothing.  Sad.

by rf7777 2008-05-25 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

What really gets me about him is that he is honeslty trying to make the case that it is 100% the fault of the media that Hillary is doing so poorly. Gimme a fucking break, Bill. I used to like you, but you're blowing all of the goodwill I once had for you with this lunacy.

It's not the media's fault that your wife has run one of the most incompetent, desperate, sad, mailicious, pathetic, flailing and unprepared campaigns in modern history.

Oh yeh, and you playing the race card on multiple occasions sure as hell didn't help either.

by Deano963 2008-05-25 05:47PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

The latest is pronouncing how DISRESPECTFUL everyone has been to his wife, as if cheating on her just oozes respect.

by rf7777 2008-05-25 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

LOL - that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. It would be hilarious if one of the pundits were to bring up that inconvenient fact on TV - I'd like to see McAwful or Wolfie respond to it.

by Deano963 2008-05-25 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: YAWN!

I've never witness an election where one candidate was so systematically disparaged by the press and the other so universally praised and protected.

Yes, the media has a hell of a lot to do with the way this election is panning out.  They selected Obama before Iowa.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

I saw Wolfsick, McAwfuliffe, and Clingon herself out blaming Obama for the uproar over her remarks.

What a sick fucking lot these people are.  I'm sorry that her supporters have to stand by these clowns....it's a shame.

by Deadalus 2008-05-25 01:12PM | 0 recs
Enough

Just stop it.

They are Democrats.

I personally don't care for the DLC, but these people don't warrant this kind of abuse.

I don't know Howard Wolfson, but he is a good friend of some very nice folks I know.  Do I like what he has been saying?  No.

Is he a horrible person.  I doubt it.

Stop it.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-25 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Enough

No. They ARE despicable.  They are not Democrats.  They are tearing down the Democratic party by spreading lies to support the most polarizing, destructive person in US politics in decades.

by rf7777 2008-05-25 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Enough

No, they are Democrats.  Anyone who isn't in the tank for Obama knows Hillary's RFK's remark was twisted beyond comprehension.

This scandal was initially created by the New York Post and The Drudge Report.  Once upon a time, the blogesphere combated shit like this.  Now self described "progressives" are Drudge's new BFFs

Disgusting and not in line with Democratic values.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect

Whatever disrespect there has been is far less dispositive than the blunders of the Clinton campaign.  If there are those who should answer for their slights against her, then I'm all for calling 'em out for it.

But that's emphatically not why she lost.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-25 01:13PM | 0 recs
Agreed

by lombard 2008-05-25 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Agreed

Lombard you seem to have had a damascene conversion - as a matter of interest, what was the tipping point for you?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-25 02:12PM | 0 recs
Well, thank you! A fair question

I also feel quite complimented by your gracious use of the religious analogy!

The tipping point?  A week ago a diarist (who made the rec list) preached how he(she) and followers were going to clean up MyDD of the undesirables and infidels.  Along the way, this diarist and followers gang troll and hide rated anything that took strong exception to their goals.  I remember one poster's very mild comment that he really didn't see McCain the same way as Bush was gang troll rated.  This diarist's own responses to my opposing remarks crossed the line into violence.  Thankfully, I haven't seen this diarist back since.

I was so shaken by the strident displays of fanaticism that I was forced to examine my own behavior.  Although I have been an opponent of censorship throughout my time here, my own intemperate, dismissive, and insulting remarks have contributed to making this site a poorer place to spend time.  I began to realize that any efforts to "clean up" MyDD really should start with ourselves.  Thanks for your question!

by lombard 2008-05-25 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, thank you! A fair question

Cool.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-25 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, thank you! A fair question

Hey. I'd quadruple kudos you if I could, Lombard. Regardless of the issue, or whoever you did/do support, it takes depth of character to own up to stuff like that.

I've been guilt of it too in the past, and Hillary supporters like Sricki made me realise what they had invested in her, and I stood back, and realised: whatever I felt about Hillary's campaign, she symbolised something really important in some people's lives. So I try to respect that now.

However, I don't know if you've noticed, there are some so-called Hillary supporters around who are so abusive, who trash every democrat (Carter today) who show a different opinion, that I'm beginning to think they actually don't like any Democrats.

But reasonable people sound completely different. And just by being open about things, you've really earned my respect (whatever that's worth)

by duende 2008-05-25 03:50PM | 0 recs
Be assured that your respect is worth a lot to me!

by lombard 2008-05-25 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, thank you! A fair question

I was so shaken by the strident displays of fanaticism that I was forced to examine my own behavior.  Although I have been an opponent of censorship throughout my time here, my own intemperate, dismissive, and insulting remarks have contributed to making this site a poorer place to spend time.

This sounds like the exact same experience I had about a month or so ago. I looked around at all the hysterics and thought, "Do I ever sound like this?" I realized that I did, on occasion, and decided to change it. Major props to you for your conduct and your epiphany!

by sricki 2008-05-25 04:04PM | 0 recs
And we probably both feel better this way, too

Although I must confess that I still do slip sometimes.  Thanks for the kind words!

by lombard 2008-05-25 07:38PM | 0 recs
NPD

Shrinks would have a field day with those two.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:14PM | 0 recs
Why Does Obama Hate Women

especially older white women. Is it a Kenyan polygamist thing where women are treated as poperty? Jealousy because women were his competitors in whatever affirmative action program he or Michelle was in?

by observer5 2008-05-25 01:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Does Obama Hate Women

I don't know you might want to ask Bill that question.  If I am correct he has a way with the ladies.

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:16PM | 0 recs
While your point about Bill is not unreasonable

A better mind frame might realize how a reflexive impulse to throw gasoline on a fire is unproductive and tiresome at this point.

by lombard 2008-05-25 02:03PM | 0 recs
Congratulations!

You've descended into the ranks of people like Manic Lawyer and his fellow ideologues.

by lombard 2008-05-25 01:25PM | 0 recs
buh-bye

There's a place where comments like that won't get "HR'd"

It's called No Quarter.

Why don't you go there?  

You won't miss much, since this diarist posts there anyway

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-25 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Does Obama Hate Women

His mom was an older white woman. If you fail to grasp the closeness of his mom to his worldview, then you understand nothing about basic human relationships.

His mother was a trail-blazing role model for any independent girl or boy.

Learn something about his mother before you judge him. Better not, her life will fill you with jealousy.

by catilinus 2008-05-25 10:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

So you're saying you won't support Obama if he's the nominee?  Not gonna happen, not in a million years?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 01:17PM | 0 recs
Correct!

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Go to the GOP then, you will feel right at home.

by telfishbackagain 2008-05-25 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Seeya.

by LtWorf 2008-05-25 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

I don't know the people who have hijacked the Democratic Party and i don't want to know them.  KO is the new Bill O'Reilly and his minions are all over Daily Kos.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Why is that the case?  Why not that Hillary is hijacking the Democratic party, Wolfson is the new O'Reilly, and her minions are all over MyDD?

It's a war without end, this one.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-25 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Byebye, then!  There are plenty of Clinton supporters who are much more reasonable in their objection to Obama's candidacy.  I'm sorry, but you're a complete lost cause if you can't see that these two politicians are virtually identical.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-26 07:57AM | 0 recs
I am REALLY surprised that

Bill Clinton has been whining as much as he has lately.

I think that Bill should BLAME the Hillary campaign for her potential loss NOT ANYONE ELSE.

The Hillary campaign did NOT prepare for this long campaign.  They did not prepare for the caucus states.  They did not prepare for AFTER Super Tuesday.  They did not use their money wisely and that is why they are 20 million dollars in the hole, etc.

In Hillary's own words, if you can't take the heat get out of kitchen.

by puma 2008-05-25 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

Apparently she can take the heat. That's why she's still in this race even though whining Obama supporters have been begging her to drop out for months.

by LakersFan 2008-05-25 01:23PM | 0 recs
Obviously she CAN'T

or she would stop WHINING about EVERY LITTLE THING.

It is getting really annoying.

by puma 2008-05-25 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

If she could take the heat she wouldn't be whining about it. She should have dropped out when there was no mathematical path to the nomination. But her ego won't let her.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

No. Dropping out is for losers who can't take the heat. She's much stronger than that, and apparently it really irritates her detractors. Her ability to carry on in the face of adversity is one of the main reasons she's the superior candidate (her health care plan is the biggest reason she's the better candidate).

by LakersFan 2008-05-25 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

Your statement is one that only an irrational person would make. That, of course, makes perfect  sense.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

You mean that healthcare plan that will never be enacted per the Democratic leadership?  That one?

by LtWorf 2008-05-25 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

I haven't been "begging" her to do anything. I've hoped that she would decide, for the sake of the party, to say nothing of her own legacy, to conduct herself with a little bit of grace, class and dignity.

This seems to be asking too much.

And to unironically cite Bill Clinton calling for his wife to be shown respect....? Come on. I wish we had a European (or at least French) attitude toward our politicians' sex lives, but we don't, and he knew that when he decided to take himself to the national political stage.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

I think you missed the part where I said I don't care if she drops  out, I just want her to stop the victimization, dishonesty and buffoonery.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: I am REALLY surprised that

It was actually a typo in a strategy memo, which should have read "need more winning."

by neeborMolgula 2008-05-25 02:34PM | 0 recs
Wasn't he the one

claiming how tough she was

This is a contact sport, politics," he said. "You can't complain about being attacked. It's like Yao Ming complaining about being fouled playing basketball.

And then she said ""If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Just speaking for myself, I'm very comfortable in the kitchen"

So why all the pseudo whining now?

by v2r1 2008-05-25 01:22PM | 0 recs
that's the Clinton instinct

when your own mistakes cause problems, blame other people.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Wasn't he the one

Since when does stating facts constitute whining?  

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:39PM | 0 recs
But but but....now they want/expect WJC

to help them heal the rifts in the Democratic Party - wait, wasn't BO supposed to be the unifier?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/us_and_americas/us_elections/article 3998946.ece

My favorite part:  

"Senior officials on Obama's campaign believe Bill Clinton has the unique status and political gifts to reunite the party after such gaffes. They expressed confidence that the former president would rise above the perceived slights and grudges of a hard-fought campaign and work flat out for an Obama victory in November's presidential election.

"If anybody can put their arms around the party and say we need to be together, it is Bill Clinton," a senior Obama aide said.

"He's brilliant, he has got heart and he cares deeply about the country. It's tricky because of his position as Hillary's spouse, but his involvement is very important to us.

"Bill Clinton will give permission to Hillary supporters to come into our camp and become one party. He is critical to this effort."

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: But but but....now they want/expect WJC

so what?  The geezer gives a couple of speeches and then we put him on the sidelines away from trouble.

That is what the republicans are going to do with Bush and that is what we are going to do with the Clintons.

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: But but but....now they want/expect WJC

the "geezer"?  You can only HOPE you have that much energy and drive when you get into your early 60's.

Bill Clinton is still the last 2 term successful democratic president in over 50 years and any candidate would be a damn fool not to have BC or Hillary stumping for them - big time.

Gore waited too long to ask BC to stump for him.  BC would have helped out greatly for Gore.

Kerry had BC stumping for him right off the bat - but alas, BC needed heart surgery.  And Bill STILL managed to get out of the hospital bed after major heart surgery and stump for Kerry, despite the risks to his health.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-25 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: But but but....now they want/expect WJC

play me the world's smallest violin...

I don't care what kind of stamina the geezer has, this election is bigger than the Clintons and I don't have patience for geezers who whine on a consistent basis.

by obamaovermccain 2008-05-25 01:35PM | 0 recs
Cute little McCain troll

go away and play please!

by catfish2 2008-05-25 01:35PM | 0 recs
No geezer could keep a schedule like Slick Willie

Yeah, please.

Clinton is no geezer.

There is only one geezer in this race, and it's McCain.

It isn't even about his age - he's a geezer because of his reactionary policies.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-25 01:41PM | 0 recs
Will give PERMISSION

Oh my god. So insulting. I swear they want to lose.

by catfish2 2008-05-25 01:30PM | 0 recs
That's OK, they will lose...

that's why you're seeing panic in Obamacot comments.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: That's OK, they will lose...

Since you won't vote for him you can't complain if he does.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:36PM | 0 recs
Me, complain if he loses?

I.  Don't.  Think.  So.

You will only have yourselves to blame.  There is evidence being presented every day that he is not electable, but none of you will even open your eyes and realize the problems.

The first step in finding a solution is to acknowledge that a problem exists.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Me, complain if he loses?

Losing people like you can only be a positive thing for the Democratic party.

by catalysis 2008-05-25 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Me, complain if he loses?

That's like me warning you that someone is going to do something to you and then doing it to you myself and then saying I told you so.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 02:54PM | 0 recs
OK, if that's what you want to think...

You ignore the facts at your own peril.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: OK, if that's what you want to think...

What I want to think? Did you even understand what I said? It seems like you didn't.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: That's OK, they will lose...

That's OK, they will lose... (1.50 / 2)

that's why you're seeing panic in Obamacot comments.

Hee hee

I don't know which part of your little fantasy in two clauses is funnier.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: But but but....now they want/expect WJC

wait, wasn't BO supposed to be the unifier?

and every time Hillary steps on her own tongue, and Obama graciously tells everyone it's no big deal, she and her supporters and her husband still keep complaining.

Hard to "unify" people who desperately determined to wallow in self-pity and victimhood.

As for "expecting/wanting" WJC to give something back to the party: Considering that, if Bill Clinton had exercised the self-control expected of anyone more mature than your average frat boy when a twenty-four year old flashed his thong at him, we'd be celebrating the end of Al Gore's second term, with no 9/11, no Iraq War, and probably a solid environmental policy that would've kept gas prices down and the economy and dollar a lot healthier.... Yeah, I don't think it's too much to expect Bubba to give back. But the country's second biggest narcissist sees his wife's campaign as a chance for us to pay our debts to him.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 03:35PM | 0 recs
Wow, you have some unresolved problems,

don't you?

Think therapy!

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-25 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow, you have some unresolved problems,

Nope. Just looking at the world as it is, without hero worship, identity politics, or the sort of shared narcissism and entitlement that a lot of people, for reasons that escape me, bring to politics.

I guess it's because I'm not emotionally attached to any politicians that the starry-eyed fawning strikes me as a little odd.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: But but but....now they want/expect WJC

I love Bill and I'm happy to do just about anything Hillary asks of me. I'll give her money, write letters, etc.

But vote for the guy who tarred them as racists?  Even if they ask?

Hmmm.  

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:42PM | 0 recs
Wash Post's Marie Cocco

Washington Post columnist Marie Cocco put it this way:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/05/14/AR2008051403090. html

As the Democratic nomination contest slouches toward a close, it's time to take stock of what I will not miss.

I will not miss seeing advertisements for T-shirts that bear the slogan "Bros before Hos." The shirts depict Barack Obama (the Bro) and Hillary Clinton (the Ho) and are widely sold on the Internet.

I will not miss walking past airport concessions selling the Hillary Nutcracker, a device in which a pantsuit-clad Clinton doll opens her legs to reveal stainless-steel thighs that, well, bust nuts. I won't miss television and newspaper stories that make light of the novelty item.

I won't miss episodes like the one in which liberal radio personality Randi Rhodes called Clinton a "big [expletive] whore"   . . .

And, fellow Democrats, take note, for this is another reason to rid ourselves of the incompetent Howard Dean:


I will not miss the deafening, depressing silence of Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean or other leading Democrats, who to my knowledge (with the exception of Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland) haven't publicly uttered a word of outrage at the unrelenting, sex-based hate that has been hurled at a former first lady and two-term senator from New York. Among those holding their tongues are hundreds of Democrats for whom Clinton has campaigned and raised millions of dollars. *

I would also like to remind people of the verbal violence/physical violence link.  While this applies to relationships, let's now consider the many people out there who cannot describe Sen. Clinton without resort to crude and profane language.  Is it possible they are abusing females in their personal lives, both physically as well as emotionally?

Here's what the U.S. Government says about the verbal/physical abuse link:  http://www.4woman.gov/violence/types/emo tional.cfm and also provides links to this article:  http://www.thewomenscenter.org/content.a sp?contentid=220

and this one:  http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic _violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effec ts.htm

by katmandu1 2008-05-25 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Wash Post's Marie Cocco

Physical violence? Like this?

Like white supremacists working themselves up to kill Obama. Like Fox News joking about his murder? Not to mention the racist "bros" in that T-Shirt.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:35PM | 0 recs
Hillary supporters like white supremacists

that's her new base.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Wash Post's Marie Cocco

Sen. Clinton without resort to crude and profane language.  Is it possible they are abusing females in their personal lives, both physically as well as emotionally?

That's as valid a point as those who say Clinton was calling for Obama to be assassinated.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-25 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: A little different

Ted Kennedy and Jesse Jackson had major differences on the issues of the time with their rivals; Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama do not.

Gary Hart did not have as bright a future as Hillary Clinton does right now.  Gary Hart in 1984 didn't have the potential to become a Senate Majority Leader, an influential legislator, a Supreme Court Justice, etc.; Hillary Clinton does.

At this point, Hillary Clinton has better chances for relevance in the roles mentioned in the last paragraph.  Why exacerbate the situation, and ruin her chances of developing this kind of legacy?  In other words, we want Hillary to quit for her own good -- not just for the party's.  She is a remarkable woman with a bright future ahead of her.

by Brad G 2008-05-25 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Good for Bill, he gave the others plenty of time, this might have come from Howard, but no, it might have come from Donna, or Nancy, or John Kerry or John Edwards, but no, they might have had the opportunity to speak about what many women know has been going on and become heroes of truth, it's hardly been a secret, and many men have also noticed, and they're voting for her.  Barack would have had the most to gain from saying this, he's supposedly the uniter, the one America man, Mr. Inspirational, but instead his campaign has given up on working class voters in blue and swing states and has claimed we don't need to rely on labor anymore, we have educated city slickers, and we're running against some old pug, so hey.

It is true, maybe it will take a few months after the GE for it to sink in. If we all feel we need to win, it has to be her. If Barack has to have it but needs to win, he'll have to invite her onto the ticket and hope she can bring all her voters with her.  If he wants to 'win' the game but lose the match, it'll be business as usual.  

by anna shane 2008-05-25 01:33PM | 0 recs
more lies from you

where has Obama or his campaign claimed we don't need to rely on labor anymore?  Cite or retract.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: more lies from you

the campaign has said that there is a new demographic and it doesn't matter if he can't win that demo, cause it's a new party. This is all over the news, pundits asking if it's true, most claiming that it is.  The old blue collar labor vote that was once the staple of our party is less relevant and needs not to be relied on for this upcoming election. That's what's used to explain the electoral map, why it only seemingly favors Hillary against McCain, while in fact it's new states ever before Dem that will give him his win.  

by anna shane 2008-05-25 03:02PM | 0 recs
i said cite

obviously i don't trust your secondhand talking points.  Lern2read.

by JJE 2008-05-25 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: more lies from you

Donna Brazile said this on CNN during an argument with Paul Begala.  Last I checked she wasn't with the Obama campaign.  Retract your misinformation.

by LtWorf 2008-05-25 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: more lies from you

You're misrepresenting again - Donna said we don't need to rely on only the traditional voters - we can bring new ones in as well.  What can possibly be wrong with that, or are you against growing the party?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-26 04:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

And women.  He's done nothing to earn Democratic women's votes.  Nothing.  

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:44PM | 0 recs
Newsweek - February 4, 1980
But some worried among themselves whether their solicitations were really meant to retire back debts preparatory to an early Kennedy secession from the race.  A reporter put their question to him directly: would he withdraw? Kennedy's head jerked angrily around.  "No!" he barked, disappearing into a waiting elevator.

Why is Bill Clinton deceiving people?
by map 2008-05-25 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Newsweek - February 4, 1980

Because he is a liar. Always has been, always will be.

by Cochrane 2008-05-25 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Newsweek - February 4, 1980

As he has done scores of times in the last few weeks, Kennedy fended off all the reporters' suggestions that his cause is hopeless.

...

Carter appeared relaxed, almost serene, as he discussed the meeting, saying it was Kennedy's decision to remain in the race or not, that he had not asked the senator to withdraw and that he remained confident that "regardless of any conceivable circumstances" he will be renominated in August.

Sounds exactly like what is happening now.  So again, why is Bill trying to deceive us?

TexasDarlin, can you update your diary with this information.  Seems relevant.

by map 2008-05-25 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Newsweek - February 4, 1980

Oh, the one above this was The Washington Post, June 6, 1980.

by map 2008-05-25 01:49PM | 0 recs
Obama = Carter

Do Obama supporters really want to draw that parallel?  Your comparison, not mine.  Obama, if nominated, would tank in the general.

I think Bill knows this, hence his support for someone who can win, Hillary.  I thank Bill for putting this out there.  More people in the media need to hear it.

All the losers who never made it to the WH - include Carter term 2 (he has produced an endorsement lite), Kerry, Kennedy, Richardson, Dodd - well who did they endorse?

by Molee 2008-05-25 01:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama = Carter

The entire diary is based on Bill Clinton telling everyone that Kennedy was not asked to withdraw.  

That is a lie.

by map 2008-05-25 02:03PM | 0 recs
Bill just wants to get back in the White House

with access to a fresh crop of interns.  It's always all about the Clintons.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama = Carter

Yes - Kennedy, Richardson, Edwards, Dodd, Kerry, Carter....ALL LOSERS. You Molee, have done so much more for this country and the Democratic party specifically just by supporting the majestic Hillary.

I think this should be warning for anybody else thinking of supporting Obama - Pelosi, Reid, Gore, etc... if you do you will be tagged a LOSER and therefore will not be allowed to sit with HRC, Bill, Howie, Lanny, Terry Mac, & the Pennster at the cool kids table.

by Cochrane 2008-05-25 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

I guarantee you if there had been Huffington Post or DailyKos or TPMCafe or YouTube even MyDD in 1980, people would have been clamoring loud and often for Ted Kennedy to drop out. This is completely overlooking the fact that we have a grand invention known as the INTERNET now. Bill Clinton doesn't want to join us in this century. That's okay. The rest of us are smart enough to know what the internet has done for communications.

by terra 2008-05-25 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Smart Enough?

I find the "smart enough" comment most interesting. All that access to the internet has done has been to permit all of the worst parts of human nature to be shoved out into the open with no attempt to show respect for opinions and points of view that differ from one's own. We are high tech but not high touch. At the rate we are going we will elect an automaton who has absolutely no empathy or sense of other. That's what being "smart enough" will cost us.

by pan230oh 2008-05-25 01:57PM | 0 recs
just the opposite,

if DailyKos and HuffPo existed in 1980, they'd be the ones pushing Kennedy harder than anyone! Or yet again, in 1976, they'd have pushed to renominate McGovern!

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 03:40PM | 0 recs
Widespread disrespect and hostility?

Any disrespect and hostility towards Hillary has come from the general public, and if Hillary's supporters think this is too much to take, how do you think it's going to be when we leave the playpen of the Democratic Party and get out into the real world where Republicans absolutely loathe the Clintons. If you can't take whatever minor slights you think have happened here, you aren't close to prepared for a general election campaign with Hillary as the nominee.

As for the Obama campaign itself, never in the history of American politics has a candidate gone more out of his way to respect and, frankly, treat with kid gloves  his opponent.

Bill is doing what he needs to, fire you all up with charges that Hillary's been picked upon, and you folks either don't know you're being manipulated or just don't care.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-25 01:53PM | 0 recs
I know you are but what am I.

Geesh.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-25 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Widespread disrespect and hostility?

So, the "general public" get their views from. . .no  one and nothing.  Their views just spring to life on their own.  

Please.

BTW,  I've seen more hatred come from Obama supporters than most of the Republicans i know.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:47PM | 0 recs
Where's Talk Left's deletion policy when

we need it -- why do these angry Obama supporters attack and attack and attack?  This diarist wrote something 1) substantive and 2) positive about HRC.  A lot of us want to read this.  The thicket of hostility and childish attacks on the diarist need to stop.

by Molee 2008-05-25 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's Talk Left's deletion policy when

Substantive & positive. Hm. Nope.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-25 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's Talk Left's deletion policy when

This is MyDD

by parahammer 2008-05-25 02:00PM | 0 recs
it's over at TalkLeft, where it's always been

if you need an echo chamber, I suggest you stay over there.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's Talk Left's deletion policy when

The diarist has been deceived by Bill Clinton.  I posted the evidence above.  

If this is really a substantive diary then she'll update it with the new information since she did ask the question, "Was Ted Kennedy pressured to bow out for the sake of "party unity?".  The answer was yes, as I showed.

by map 2008-05-25 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's Talk Left's deletion policy when

This has become a standard routine around here.  A Clinton supporter writes a good, or even a great diary, the same offenders jump in and take over the tread with unfounded, repetitive attacks.

Yeah, it's sad.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

There's only one thing to consider: Hillary is the only qualified candidate running in the Democratic primary. All of the disrespect being shown her by the unqualified candidate's camp and the media is an attempt to make others hate her, so they won't vote for her.

We've never seen such despicable behavior within a Democratic party primary in our history. It is truly shameful.

by LA 2008-05-25 01:59PM | 0 recs
qualified to fail, perhaps

she hasn't shown herself to be more qualified than Obama by any measure.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

It's true.  And when we suggest that it's because she's a woman, we're accused of playing the "sexism card."  But what other explanation is there?  Hillary has been persecuted just for running against Obama.  Bill is right about that.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-25 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

You asked this in your diary.

Was Ted Kennedy pressured to bow out for the sake of "party unity?"

I showed above that the answer is yes.  Bill Clinton was deceiving you.  Please update your diary.

by map 2008-05-25 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Yes, of course he was pressured to drop out.

And Bill Clinton shaded the truth - now, that's a shock!  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-25 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Now that TexasDarlin knows the answer to the question she asked I'm sure we'll see an update and apology, if not an outright deletion of this diary.  ;)

by map 2008-05-25 02:30PM | 0 recs
You truly

Live in a freakin' alternative world where if you spout bullshit it becomes truth in your mind, don't you?

Or did you forget about "inevitability?"  My guess is for the sake of propping up your lame ass argument you have.

Awfully convenient.

by LtWorf 2008-05-25 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

There's only one thing to consider: Hillary is the only qualified candidate running in the Democratic primary.

Please explain your "CinC test," because otherwise this reads like satire.

We've never seen such despicable behavior within a Democratic party primary in our history. It is truly shameful.

Really?

by neeborMolgula 2008-05-25 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Exactly.

by bellarose 2008-05-25 07:51PM | 0 recs
Waaaah! It's a vast left-wing conspiracy

Bill Clinton continues to embarrass himself.

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:01PM | 0 recs
Disrespect: what comes around goes around

Clintons:

'I have the most votes.'

'Michigan and Florida DON'T count.'

'We've got to make sure those poor disenfranchised voters in Michigan and Florida get COUNTED!'.

'Jesse Jackson won South Carolina'.

'Caucus states don't matter.'

'BO voted PRESENT - present I say! - in abortion rights bills...clearly HRC is the only true pro-choice candidate.'

Sorry, TD and Bill and HRC, you want respect PAY THE VOTERS AND THE MEDIA SOME RESPECT.

Damn, they got you in all of your little fibs and distortions and - guess what? - they're human too.  They don't like being pissed on and being told it's raining and they're striking back.

by yankeeinmemphis 2008-05-25 02:08PM | 0 recs
Well Bill would be an expert on that.

He has personally disrespected Hillary more than anyone else is capable of.

But at this point in the race Hillary and Bill disrespect themselves, and the American people they continuously lie to.

by Tumult 2008-05-25 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

"If you can't stand the heat..." HRC

by haystax calhoun 2008-05-25 02:09PM | 0 recs
Theme Song for the Clinton Campaign

by JJE 2008-05-25 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary
the presidential candidate for whom more people have voted than any other presidential primary candidate in history.

You mean the population of the United States is increasing?  Wow!
by neeborMolgula 2008-05-25 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

It's sad to see the pity party these two are holding.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-25 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

They had everything, and they threw it all away. They cannot accept responsibility for their defeat.

Watch Jimmy Carter on June 3....

by catilinus 2008-05-25 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

By at least two metrics, she is leading in the popular vote,

Hey, metrics are cheap.  Give me a few minutes and I'll come up with two that give it to Kucinich.

and GE polls consistently indicate that she is the stronger candidate against John McCain.

Utter lie.

by neeborMolgula 2008-05-25 02:27PM | 0 recs
That's funny

Because in December, when Hillary said it would be over on 2/5, the Clinton's were pretty resolved to disregard all the states that voted after that.

So it was perfectly fine to truncate the process when it suited the Clintons...and then they had to actually compete for the nomination, intead of having it handed to them, like they expected.

by jaywillie 2008-05-25 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

"Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary."

People should listen. No one can dispute his credentials on this topic.

by catilinus 2008-05-25 02:39PM | 0 recs
re

We never let the person with the most votes actually be President this is America!

by rossinatl 2008-05-25 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Funny, but cruel.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-26 04:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

So Hillary Clinton now wants to be the Rodney Dangerfield of American politics?  Fact is, there was a drumbeat of criticism of Ted Kennedy, Gary Hart, and Jesse Jackson when they stayed in their respective races.  Each time, the eventual nominee lost in a debacle (with Carter and Mondale having solid claims that Kennedy and Hart had damaged their campaigns).

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-05-25 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Real feminists don't constantly play the victim.

by DeskHack 2008-05-25 02:52PM | 0 recs
understanding out differences

I would be deeply grateful to any passionate Hillary supporter who is willing to watch this, take it in the sincere way it's presented, and comment.

http://www.lessig.org/blog/2008/02/20_mi nutes_or_so_on_why_i_am_4.html

by obsessed 2008-05-25 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

by DeskHack 2008-05-25 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

You know, I was just a kid, but is it really true that nobody tried to pressure Ted Kennedy to drop out before the convention?

by Steve M 2008-05-25 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

No

by Ida B 2008-05-25 05:20PM | 0 recs
One hand tied behind my back

What's amazing about these head-to-head polls is that Clinton and Obama are competitive with McCain at all.  Once again, 2/3rds of Clinton supporters are telling pollsters they'll vote for McCain or stay home.  1/6th of Obama supporters are telling pollsters something similar.

McCain should be routing the Dems in the polls right now.  What is the effect of the above?  If the Dems had a unified party, Obama's numbers would be +5-6 points and Clinton's would be +2-3 (and who knows, if Clinton got the nod, whether this phenomenon would reverse itself).

Who is willing to speak about the disrespect of so large a fraction of Dems telling pollsters they'd abandon their party's nominee?  C'mon, this situation is ridiculous.

And if Obama gets the nod, once the Clintons have spent two weeks on vacation and have a chance to reassess, they'll face an interesting problem.

If Obama loses because so many of Clinton's supporters failed to turn out for him, this will then become part of Hillary Clinton's legacy.  Who doubts this?  It's not as though people wouldn't know what happened.

And if Obama won, it would be with one hand tied behind his back.  Again, it shows just how strong the Dems are this year that this isn't impossible.

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-05-25 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

I wish I could say I'm surprised that the person who asked only a day or two ago that we give Clinton the benefit of the doubt, despite the fact that the diarist has never given Obama the benefit of the doubt and has made diaries promoting the most vile of rumors against him, is once again back on the attack today.

But, I'm not.

by rfahey22 2008-05-25 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

There's no doubt there's no benefit to have any doubts about one of the 310 from Tinfoilis44.

by catilinus 2008-05-26 01:18AM | 0 recs
get the f**k off this site

you redneck Clinton-hating piece of trash. Monica is a worthless loser who took advantage of Bill. The fact you are posting such a picture here shows your overall lack of worth. The fact that people like you cared about Bill's private life is why Dubya could get so close in 2000. Bill had the right to have sex with anyone he wanted as long as it was consensual sex with a woman of age. The public had no right to know, as it has no relation to his work. I urge ALL, to HIDE RATE THIS LOSER'S POST.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 03:25PM | 0 recs
Hillary is that you?

Hillary is that you?

Hillary has a habit of blaming the women instead of her nasty husband. I guess her supporters are just like her.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-25 03:36PM | 0 recs
the last Democratic President,

and that is the respect you and pinback show? before him, we used to average 113 electoral votes from 1968-1988. We used to always get beaten by large margins in elections, because we were seen as the party of welfare, fiscal liberalism, and being soft on crime. Not only did Bill Clinton win twice, even after him, with less than stellar candidates, won 2000, so that the GOP had to STEAL the election, and barely lost 04 to an incumbent war time President, with a pathetic candidate with an even moreso campaign. Even in 2000-2004, we averaged 260 electoral votes. thats an increase of 147 electoral votes on average. He is the only two term Democratic president since FDR. People like you should show some damned respect! (And don't give me the myth that Perot helped it. The exit polls showed that the pro-choice pro-gay rights anti-NAFTA candidate took equally in both 1992 and 1996, but further analysis done in 1999 by Dean Lacy from Ohio State shows Perot in doing so hurt Bill Clinton's margins of victory, meaning all Perot did was to stop Clinton majority landslides. This was also shown by when Perot came back in Sept. 1992, Bush stayed at 38 in the polls, while only Clinton decresed from the mid 50's.)

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: get the f**k off this site

I almost never HR. But this nasty diatribe against Monica deserves it.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-25 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: get the f**k off this site

Monica is a LOSER! Why are you standing up for her? Her meddling nearly ruined Bill. She took advantage of a man she knew had a weakness for women, like Bush with alcohol.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 04:07PM | 0 recs
Nearly ruined...??

He was impeached for perjury on 12/19/98.

But again... that was not really Monica's fault now was it?

by rf7777 2008-05-25 06:41PM | 0 recs
he never commited perjury.

that is a myth, which is why he was ACQUITTED. barely any reputable lawyer thought he was guilty of it. here is a good analysis of how he NEVER perjured himself. it was Monica's fault because as she knew that if anyone found out, the witch hunt Congress would go after him. The fact you even give credence or care about it shows your republicaness

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: he never commited perjury.

I so not republican.  I just have come to disrespect the Clintons for obvious [I think] reasons.

by rf7777 2008-05-25 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: get the f**k off this site

How the hell did a young intern take advantage of the most powerful man on the planet?  I get you don't like the references to Monica - but isn't this what we were told about attacking Obama - we're only doing it because the reps will do it in the GE?  So do you think they wouldn't go there with Hillary in the GE?  And I suspect there is a lot more since he left office too - certainly there are some damaging photos circulating now.  So I agree these attacks are tacky, but don't for one second think they are off limits to opponents.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-26 04:45AM | 0 recs
A Rebuttal

 Having read a few of your diaries here, I'm guessing you are WAY more concerned with Clinton's political fate, than you are with what happens to the party as a whole. Still, I'd like to make a few counter-arguments to some of the things you mention in this diary. I can be a little sharp sometimes, but I will try to be courteous here.

"Why are Obama and his backers and the mainstream media so afraid?  Why are they acting terrified of Hillary Clinton?  Maybe because she leads in the popular vote, the electoral math, and the national polls?  Even though the mass media are trying desperately to make her invisible?"

1. Popular Vote- You have nothing to back up this assertion but fuzzy logic, and poor math skills. Even if it were true, where was Sen. Clinton during the last eight years? The US Senate! Gosh, seems like a good platform from which to make a case that the popular vote should be the determinative factor in a presidential race. I wonder why she NEVER did.

  1. Electoral Math- I've seen 450 bazillion different ways of counting this magical number, and they all have their good and bad points. Fact is, no one knows what the electoral map is gonna look like after 8 years of Dubya's frat party. The Republicans are going down in flames this year whether we run Clinton, Obama, or a mildly retarded chimpanzee. We stand a better chance, IMO, with Obama and his ability to pull Independents, and intelligent Republicans. Talking about Electoral Math at this point is like relying on tarot cards.
  2. National Polls- This is your worst argument, as I'm sure your're aware. Any national poll this far from election day, when we don't even have a nominee, is about as useful as tits on a bull, and you know that.
  3. Why are we so afraid? I'll tell you why: Because every time Democrats have gone to a divided convention in the last 30 years, we've lost, and we can't afford to lose this time. And we're afraid that Sen. Clinton's take-no-prisoners, say anything to get an edge approach is hurting the party as a whole. How did a Clinton lose the support of African American voters? By saying things they found offensive in order to gain a political edge in a certain state. At best, a bad tactic.

 As to Bill Clinton's pathetic attempt at victimology, quoted at length by yourself, I hafta call bullshit on that one. Sen Obama has gone out of his way to civil, even while the Clinton campaign used every Rovian trick they could ("kitchen sink", anyone?)in order to smear him. Sen. Clinton has received far more courtesy from Obama than she would have received from me, had I been in his place. His claims of "disrespect" have the same level of reality as do the "polls" he cites (but never names? What Poll? What organization conducted these polls?)

 And finally, please give me an example of this "disrespect" you make such a big deal of? I'm not talking about those "iron my shirt" nutsacs, we both know those punks were Repug plants, I mean how, EXACTLY, has Obama disrespected Clinton?

 Anyways, I know you won't bother to respond. You want Hillary to win, and I think that's all you give a shit about. I personally think your desire to see her succeed has more to do your own emotional needs than any great concern for the rest of us, but that's just my opinion. But even if she loses, she's already won a lot for women everywhere. The next woman who runs for President will owe Hillary alot, and she deserves credit for that.

 

by Kordo 2008-05-25 03:50PM | 0 recs
HIGHLY REC'D

I'm glad someone speaks up for Hillary. it seems like someone is always at Obama's side, be it Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Jamal Simmons, Roland Martin, and a bunch of other TV pundit clowns. This is why I love Bill. He says what he believes. The media has never treated the Clintons right.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: HIGHLY REC'D

Those poor Clintons!  So mistreated!  Mistreated to the tune of $110 million in seven years!  Mistreated to the tune of a huge war chest and 100 superdelegates before anyone else got started!

So terribly mistreated....

by politicsmatters 2008-05-25 04:05PM | 0 recs
whats wrong with being rich?

they are elite world leaders. Bill was honored by nearly the entire world while he was Prez, and still is today. Why is it wrong for them to make money? I'm all for social justice, but what I am not for is socialism and being against capitalism, which selling books and speeches is. Bill uses his money for a charity which helps AIDS patients in Africa, more than Obama has ever done.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-25 04:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

TexasDarlin, you are as ridiculous as Bill.

This will all be over by the 1st week of June.  Less than 2 weeks for you to keep your head up your a--
and pretend that this is going to Convention.

The SD are going to move en masse.  So you're wrong to assume that Obama won't clinch before August.  Very short sighted of you.

As for your comments "and it's a horrible mistake to assume that Hillary Democrats will rally 'round Obama once she's been kicked aside.  Not going to happen, not in a million years"..

Go to the curb.  We don't need your McCain enabling.

by jv 2008-05-25 04:35PM | 0 recs
Yawn

Two weeks to go

by pattonbt 2008-05-25 04:37PM | 0 recs
On Bill

A little more serious now than my last post....

It seems to me to be a simple case of the Clintons believe in the principle that you can say almost anything, no matter how convoluted or contradictory you like, to bolster your case as long as you still have a technical shot.

This is politics and they believe there is no harm in fighting bitterly to the end.  They believe that no matter how hard they fight, no matter how much they stretch the truth that the ends justify the means.

They believe all will be forgiven and forgotten if they overturn this and get the nomination.  They might be right, but its a huge bet they are taking.  They believe that the landscape is so skewed to democrats this time that, as someone aptly noted above, a retarded chimpanze dem could beat McCain.  The Clintons know this is their shot and why surrender now?  Theres no risk for them, and if the impossible happens they believe the party will open their arms to them and lovingly ask them to lead them to victory.  They may be right, because even after all this junk they have pulled, if Hillary is the nominee, Id vote for her.  I most certainly wouldnt be happy, but shes better than McCain.

But on to Bill.  I am starting to think this is more about Bill for Bill than Bill for Hillary.  Bill loves politics, its his life.  He loves to mix it up and he loves to lead the fight from the front.  Its part of what turns me off slightly about the Clintons - they get off on politics.  They get off on the fight.  They get off on playing the game.  They love it.  And I hate it.

Dont get me wrong, Obama is a politician but with Obama it doesnt seem as all encompassing as it does with the Clintons.  The Clintons will fight just to fight.  Thats not what I want in a leader.

I dont want 4 or 8 more years of political pain - the Clintons will keep the partisanship ratcheted up for 1) the love of the fight and 2) for retribution.  And, yes, I hold no false hope partisianship will go away if Obama is the president, I do live in a real world.  But the Clintons will revel in it and seek it out because its what they enjoy.

But all this primary race, whenever Bill gets on his soapbox I see it being more about him getting back to that teat of power than campaigning for Hillary.  He is campaigning for himself to get back in there.

I think while he likes the role of elder stateman and party leader, its still not the same as being in the political mix at the highest level and that is what he wants, even if he can only get it through his wife.  Elder statesman have to be high minded and above the fray, they arent supposed to engage, they are supposed to be neutral and I think Bill hates that part.  I think he loves the admiration part of elder statesman, but I bet he sees the other part as kind of being put out to pasture.

So Bill is just doing what he does best which is play hardball politics to the edge.  He knows there is no downside to taking it all the way.  He and Hillary can spin any negative any way they want and they almost can not lose in the perception game.  If they manage to beat Obama up to the point the supers see no viability for Obama, the supers will give the nom to the Clintons and they will win in November and further cement their hold on power.  If Obama gets the nom and loses they will play the 'I told you so' card to high heaven and Hillary will be the nominee in 2012.  If Obama is the nominee and wins, all is well and they will take credit for making him the candidate he was to win.

What is the risk to them, personally, for taking it all the way?  None.  So they will.  

But dont be a fool and believe Bill is doing this for Hillary, he is doing it for himself.

And as far as sexism and the victimhood, we all know its BS, but whatever, if this is the card the Clintons want to play, so be it.  They will have to find some excuse for their loss and of course it cant be their fault, so sexism looks like the winning excuse right now (of course dont look at the fact Hillary had the money, the machine, the name, the supers, the process and every other possible benefit at the start and still lost).

So whatever it takes for you and the other dead enders to ratchet up that faux outrage and victimhood.  Whatever it takes to ease the pain I guess.  But Id be pretty pissed at being played patsy for the Clintons ego, thats just me though, whatever works for you is whats important in the end.  The party's always here and we'll meet you halfway when youre ready.

by pattonbt 2008-05-25 04:59PM | 0 recs
This diary is based on a lie

Since this diary asked a question and then deleted that question, I've posted a rebuttal diary here.  

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/25/2033 38/082

Disinformation should not be tolerated.

by map 2008-05-25 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: This diary is based on a lie

Thank you for pointing that out. I rec'd your diary. Sadly, this diary is typical for Tinfoilis44.com denizens & their infamous 310 posters.

by catilinus 2008-05-25 10:24PM | 0 recs
Well....

It seems to me, that if Obama were in this same position you'd be having the impatient supporters on the other side telling him to make his way to the exit ASAP.  I don't agree with it, but it would be the same.  

by venavena 2008-05-25 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Thanks Bill.  I have been bullied for 5 months.  I wont' take it anymore

by JoeySky18 2008-05-25 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

I agree on the disrespect, but not on the convention.  I don't think Hillary will take it to Denver.  This will be over soon after the June 3rd primaries.

by psychodrew 2008-05-25 05:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

why not? Because there could only be one winner but as usual, hrc is willing to assasinate the party in order to get what she wants. She always gets what she wants. And when she doesn't just pull out the gender card.

by comingawakening 2008-05-25 05:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

no more mr mrs nice. To bring up an assasination while talking about this incredible election tells everyone all they need to know about the clintons. Just ask vince foster!

by comingawakening 2008-05-25 05:49PM | 0 recs
Did Obama cheat on Hillary with an Intern?

Cause, you know, that would be disrespectful of Hillary.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-05-25 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Its ironic that Bill of all peoeple would dare to talk about disrespecting Hillary.

by fugazi 2008-05-25 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Funny that this is troll rated, given the fact that it is cuttingly true.  In case the fact is lost on anyone, it's pretty clear that any Obama supporter, Hillary-hater, or even the dreaded Randi Rhodes has a looooong way to go before they come close to being as disrepectful to Hillary as Bill was.

Don't get me wrong, a BJ has nothing to do with being a good president, but it is pre-tay pre-tay disrespectful for the ol' wife, right?

Anyway, I thought you were actually feminists rather than adherents to a cult of personality...oh my bad, that's Obama supporters who don't actually have any beliefs and just love their candidate, right?  The same supporters who say they'll vote for Clinton in the national despite the fact that we're not afforded the same ahem respect?  So sorry for the confusion.  Carry on!

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-25 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Your type of attitude carrying on the disrespect, is one of the reasons why you will see many democrats not voting for Obama in the fall.  By the way, feminism is not passing judgement on how another woman handles her personal affairs.  It's the decency to let her handle her life in her own way as she sees fit without demanding that she adhere to a particular cultural or societal judgement.  Your judgement of the situation is just manufacturing more rules and moral demands, yours, for women to adhere to. Thanks for your concern.

by Scotch 2008-05-25 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Yep, it's my fault Bill's cheated on his wife repeatedly.  Good to know you all are soooo ideologically consistent.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-26 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

Becaus ethe media wsn't quite as in love with Bradley, Kennedy, or Hart as they are with Obama. Ted Kennedy is revered now that he's old but I remember when running against Carter he got a lot of flak. Then there was the famous 60 Minutes interview where he had problems answering the questions.

by handsomegent 2008-05-25 06:09PM | 0 recs
SNAP!!!

Nothing like a little Monica to tell Bill to STFU where "respect for Hillary" is concerned.  

by rf7777 2008-05-25 06:39PM | 0 recs
Bullying

I find ironic that the Clintons would talk about bullying SD's when their most prominent fundraisers have threatened to withhold financial support if the SD's don't make the "right" decision. Not to mention the unfortunate comments by Carville about Richardson.

But I do think Hillary should be the only one to decide if and when she drops out, provided she does not take this to the convention. That would be political death for whoever is on the top of the ticket this year.

by JENKINS 2008-05-25 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

According to the comments in this thread, the republican plan to have Democrats mouth their talking points as though they were their own, is complete.  Thanks Obama people for fulfilling their dreams.

by Scotch 2008-05-25 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

As opposed to some of the idiotic and pedantric things said by Clinton surrogates and supporters during the campaign, right?

by JENKINS 2008-05-25 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton on Disrespect Towards Hillary

The Clintons show disrespect for the Democratic Party.  Otherwise they wouldn't be doing everything they can to sabotage the rightful democratic nominee.

by Democrat in Chicago 2008-05-25 08:50PM | 0 recs
Mondale wasn't disrespected?

Kerry wasn't?

McCain wasn't disrespected by Bush?

Bill has a short memory.

by Neef 2008-05-25 09:42PM | 0 recs
Disheartening..

To see people putting canidate loyalty above their Democratic ideals and principals. I thought Republicans only engaged in this kind of nonsense. Guess I was wrong.

But if McSame somehow manages to win the White House because of your misguided ideals, expect the same kind of backlash in 2012. Besides the zealots who thought another 4 years of Republican hackery to get their canidate on the next presidental ballot was worth it, who in their right mind is going to vote for her?

Nobody. The next up and coming star of the Democratic party is going to demolish her, again, and her political carrer will pretty much be over.

Do you really want that? I'm sure Hillary doesn't.

by Massadonious 2008-05-25 10:31PM | 0 recs
Weak candidates require crutches

If Obama was such a strong candidate, then what does the media, the party, and Obama's supporters have to fear? Is he really that weak that you have to throw out any sense of decency and ideals? Let the process play out. Let democracy work. Let the candidates make their case to the Supers. Let the Supers do their job and nominate the best candidate to run in the general election and win back the White House.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-26 05:38AM | 0 recs
Pravda - ne pravda, Izvestia - ne izvestia

TexasDarlin, I understand that you have a history with Russia and the Soviet Union.  It shows.  Your writing has the qualities of a standard Komsomolskaia pravda article circa 1974.  

If you really want to improve your appeal.  You need to start calling Bill, "Uncle" Bill or our honorable father.  

by zadura 2008-05-26 05:45AM | 0 recs

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