Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I am watching the first half of the Obama on Meet the Press.  Hillary doesn't come on my cable until 10:30.  Feel free to chime in about either program.

So far they are talking about Wright.  OBama is insisting that Wright added to his divisive statements before he denounced him.  I think that is very untrue and of course Timmy is treating him with kid gloves.

Update [2008-5-4 10:34:56 by TeresaInPa]:

I am switching to ABC.  Please feel free to continue to tell us what Obama is saying.

oops, I accidently deleted the diary...sigh

sorry about the lost comments

Tags: Hillary, obama (all tags)

Comments

151 Comments

sorry about the lost comments

If you are watching Obama please let us know what he is saying.

I can say already, with in about two minutes in that George is already challenging her where Timmy was more or less asking Obama scripted questions to allow him to explain Wright one more time.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:37AM | 0 recs
Re: sorry about the lost comments

If I hadn't seen Obama sitting next to Tim Russert, based on Tim's behavior, I could have sworn he was interviewing Dick Cheney.

by zenful6219 2008-05-04 06:39AM | 0 recs
Re: sorry about the lost comments

I boycott ABC no need to waste time watching such a pathetic slanted yellow journalistic channel.

by Wary 2008-05-04 06:40AM | 0 recs
booo hoo

they asked Obamamessiah some mean questions that Americans wanted to know the answers to.

Welcome ti Hillary's world.  She is a better candidate party (IMO) because she can take those questions and deal with them without whining.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:49AM | 0 recs
Do you mind?

Calling him obamamessiah is offensive. He is running for president and if you keep it up i'm going to start calling Hillary some names that you will not like. Knock it off.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-04 06:52AM | 0 recs
sorry about that

I forgot "he is the one we have been waiting for" is not at all messianic...

lol

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: sorry about that

Obama says that "we" are the ones we have been waiting for. In other words, he says that the American people must be the ones to support, demand, and help make change.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: sorry about that

We've been waiting for ourselves? That clears things up. Which chapter/verse in the "bible" would I find that reference? kidding.....

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:07AM | 0 recs
if you were the ones you were waiting

for, why did you wait?

Come on, it is the silliest messianic nonsense.  It's cultish and indeed Oprah and many other people have referred to him as "the ONE".  Yikes

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: if you were the ones you were waiting

First, who cares what Oprah says?  I don't!

Second, clearly "we are the ones we've been waiting for" is a call to action.  It obviously means that we cannot wait for someone else to fix things.  WE must do it, and NOW.

I can't imagine spending this much of my time being purposefully insulting and deliberately obtuse.  If you want to support Hillary over Obama on the issues, more power to you.  But this cult/Messiah bullshit is ridiculous, and just a cheap way to insult people you don't like.

by freedom78 2008-05-04 07:57AM | 0 recs
It's a call to narcissitic delusions of granduer

Something he and many of his supporters have in common.  If you weren't such an obvious Obamabot you would see how utterly vapid this statement is.

by lombard 2008-05-04 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: It's a call to narcissitic delusions of grandu

He's running for President.  Are you so dense that you think a President can't affect things?

by freedom78 2008-05-04 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: booo hoo

If Obama were here, I suppose he could respond:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me."

"Whatever you say to me bounces off and sticks to you."

Grow up.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-04 07:03AM | 0 recs
"Obamamessiah "?? Get off of it!

See, you are sooooo wrong!

I began boycotting ABC in 2006 when it decided to run that horrible slanted incorrect historically movie about 9-11 with the false, right wing interpretation on how Sandy Berger and Bill Clinton 'blew it' in capturing Bin Laden--

I also boycott a lot of Disney channells since then,

I detest slanted journalistic channels such as ABC, Faux Noise, etc.

by Wary 2008-05-04 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

We need immediate assistance. We can't wait for years for some relief. We all want higher mileage standards, alternative energy sources, lower pollution, etc., but we also need relief now and this summer. A President's job is to lead. Obama is not leading on the Gas Tax Holiday. All he's doing, effectively, is criticizing.

by zenful6219 2008-05-04 06:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

A President's job is to lead, for sure, and leading requires listening to those experts and then making an informed decision based upon sound expert advice. We've had seven years now of a president who did NOT listen to those 'experts' concerning Iraq--look how good that's turning out--

nor did Bush listen to those experts concerning those tax breaks for the wealthy--and look how nicely that's all turned out, FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS to the national Debt and our economy is doing oh so well right now, isn't it? Oh, and recall back then those tax breaks for the wealthy were referred to as the 'Death Tax"--yeah, it's been the death of the US economy all right.

Frankly, that type of 'Leadership' by ANY president who doesn't listen to those 'experts' and makes things up along the way is always met with disaster--

Thanks I'll just stick with the way things are now, I'm sick of that type of 'leadership because it has such a disasterous result and I'm not falling for it this time around either.

by Wary 2008-05-04 06:50AM | 0 recs
oh come one

you are comparing apples to oranges.  Clinton has an excellent long term plan and the gas tax relief is going to help some people for a few months until we can get there.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

Virtually no expert agrees with you.  How do you answer their arguments?

"I was appalled by Hillary going with the tax," said Alice M. Rivlin, a budget director under former President Bill Clinton who supports Mrs. Clinton for the nomination. It "looked like pandering," Mrs. Rivlin said.

An open letter signed recently by more than 100 economists said the proposed tax holiday would do little to reduce gas prices. In part, that is because a fall in prices would lead to more demand, which would cause prices to return to their earlier level. The result would be that overseas oil-producing governments would get money now flowing to the United States government in gas taxes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/us/pol itics/04economy.html?hp

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

thanks for the voice of reason

not one Hilary supporter will answer you they are all defending it as good politics which shows you what kind of character they want as a president or they really think is a good idea and it just means they are really low info uneducated voters
if this pander works we deserve gas prices to sky rocket to $10 a gallon I pray as a country we learned under bush that we cannot believe everything a Politician says  

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

Here's some news for you. Gasoline will be close to $10 a gallon regardless of what happens.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:08AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

Especially if demand goes up, which the gas tax holiday will encourage.

The way to bring down gas prices is to make more cars more fuel-efficient and to encourage alternative energy sources. Then demand for gas will go down and prices along with it.

Some people - in rural areas especially - will always need to spend a lot on gas. But the mass of suburbanites who waste gas on guzzling SUVs have other options.

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

And the price of gas will get there faster in the short term if the price artificially goes down and demand goes up, and more people will be laid off due to the lack of funding for infrastructure repair, rebuiling, so it will have a ripple effect that won't be a positive one. Sort term relief for whom? people voting in the elections on Tuesday?

by Wary 2008-05-04 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

So you would rather do everything possible to speed up the process to get $10 gas ..thats a great Idea  

I don't know what i was thinking investing in alternative energy and hybrid tax credits reducing the demand on foreign oil is a BAD IDEA
the oil companies are hurting we need to all pitch in and help them

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

Why do Obama supporters forget that Clinton also supports long-term solutions like investment in research, reduction in oil consumption? Those are long-term issues. If someone were truly well informed, they'd know that consumers, many who live paycheck to paycheck, need relief. By the way, oil companies should have been paying the gas tax from the very beginning. They're making obscene profits by using our infrastructure.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

I agree.  I also disagree with those who state the "demand will go up" due to the tax relief.  Hell, prices are high enough without the tax.  I think people will just be happy with the consumption that they use now - which for most people, is necessary for commuting to work.

People used to laugh at me when I told them my gas mileage.  I have a 2003 (bought in 2004) car and it has less than 35,000 miles on it.  That is because I commute to work & back with it and make my side trips on that commute (grocery shopping, post office, doctor's appt's, etc).  On the weekend, I drive less than 10 miles, if any.  I am lucky to have a commuter rail that I can take if I wish to go into Boston.

They don't laugh at me now....matter of fact, they are following my lead.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: oh come one

Yeah, I do the same. I have a 1994 Toyota Corolla that is just now nearing 90,000 miles. (and it was a used rental car bought in 1995 to start with. I've forgotten how many miles were on it back then, but 90,000 miles on a 14 year old car is pretty good.)

by K1966 2008-05-04 08:29AM | 0 recs
Bush is working for his constituency..

who obviously isn't us.

(nudge.. wink)

by architek 2008-05-04 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Bush is working for his constituency..

Duhbya probably has an Exxon tatoo.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-04 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Bush has done nothing but listen to experts. Unfortunately, he's only listened to hand-picked experts.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Well thats more than what I can say clinton did

all her handpicked experts even say its a bad Idea so I guess that means  Dare I say it Bush is smrater then Hillary .. then god help us  

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:09AM | 0 recs
even HIllary's own experts

Would tell her this is pandering.

Defending Hillary on the gas tax is all political. To those that admit this, I salute your honesty.

by highgrade 2008-05-04 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: even HIllary's own experts

What is wrong with giving relief, in the short-term, to people who are already living paycheck to paycheck? If you want to call that pandering, so be it. But, honestly, if Clinton hadn't beat him to the punch, Obama would have had his own short-term stance on getting relief to consumers.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: even HIllary's own experts

yes.  I would  rather have someone pander to average Americans and giving them SOMETYPE of relief than pander to big energy (Dick Cheney's Energy Bill comes to mind)

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: even HIllary's own experts

Cheney's sleazy energy bill that Obama voted for and Hillary voted against.

by K1966 2008-05-04 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: even HIllary's own experts

What is wrong is not that you're giving relief to tax payers - it's that 1) they don't actually get the relief since the gas stations and distributors will simply raise the price, 2) a windfalls profit tax will never be passed so it's more likely that the money will come from the highway trust fund, 3) messing with the trust fund not only endangers drivers, but causes job losses in the industry, 4) it will encourage even more driving during a time of the year when demand for gas is already sky high - thus causing prices to increase even more than usual.

Now, my wish - unlikely to ever be granted - is that we have a nominee that is 100% honest with the American people on the issue of energy, and specifically gas prices. Short of a massive worldwide economic depression that drastically decreases demand for oil (like the late 1990s with the Asian financial crisis), it is unlikely if not impossible, that we're ever going back to the heyday of 1.25/gallon gas. OPEC has found out that Americans are not willing to change their behaviors even if gas is at $4.00/gallon. Thus there is NO incentive to allow prices to fall.

I am sick and tired of people talking about average Americans like they are children to be bribed with promises of cheap gas. It's as though they are too dense to understand the broader context, so we just do whatever it takes to make sure they can fill up their tanks and drive to their hearts content, as though there are no repurcussions. I want a President that will go on national TV, for a prime time address and say to every American that we are the reasons for this problem. The more we continue to blame everyone else for our addiction, the less likely we're ever going to treat it.

[img]http://pumpngo.files.wordpress.com/2008/ 04/ride_with_hitler.jpg[/img]  

by highgrade 2008-05-04 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

For me, the most important idea coming out of the gas tax holiday is the idea of taking on the oil companies.

by zenful6219 2008-05-04 06:40AM | 0 recs
What's to stop them from selling their oil

elsewhere, then?

They will sell it wherever they get paid the most. There's lots of need for oil everywhere in the world. The US uses I think around 40% of the world's  oil, but with only 5% of the world's population, there is lots of room for growth in that 95% who live elsewhere..

We need other sources of energy that are decentralized..

http://nanosolar.com - thin film solar - looks promising. If we covered a 100 by 100 mile chunk of the Southwest with solar cells, that would put a HUGE dent in our fossil fuel consumption.

by architek 2008-05-04 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: What's to stop them from selling their oil

OMG. I can't believe someone would pull out that argument. Sell their oil elsewhere? Please....

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

she is not taking on the Oil companies!!!!!

the oil companies lobbyist are backing her you idiots!!!!!!!!!

I mean Steve Elmendorf who is a lobbyist for shell oil is the only person speaking up for her
that does not tell you anything!!!!!
Hillary is looking out for the oil companies
not you morons!!!!!

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I agree with you 100% but you don't need to call people idiots.

I know that it is difficult to watch this woman lie through her teeth and have people believe it.

by Renie 2008-05-04 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

It's difficult to watch that man lie through his teeth.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

your right

I just thought in this day and age  with the internet anybody can see that this is not a good Idea I am sorry  

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:23AM | 0 recs
what is she lying about?

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: what is she lying about?

she is not taking on Oil companies

this has more of a chance of making more money for the oil companies then it does for the working class
***
And it's not just that 18 cents/gallon off of your fill-up is insignificant. It's that THERE WILL BE NO 18 CENTS/GALLON OFF OF YOUR GAS BILL AT ALL, but, uh, oil corporations -- already making record profits -- will have one less tax chipping away at their revenue. Tell them, Hillary Clinton economist Paul Krugman:

Why doesn't cutting the gas tax this summer make sense? It's Econ 101 tax incidence theory: if the supply of a good is more or less unresponsive to the price, the price to consumers will always rise until the quantity demanded falls to match the quantity supplied. Cut taxes, and all that happens is that the pretax price rises by the same amount. The McCain gas tax plan is a giveaway to oil companies, disguised as a gift to consumers.

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: what is she lying about?

The most recent thing that made me say that is her condemnation for the closing of Magnequench when it was her husband who let it happen.

From an article by Jake Tapper "Clinton continued, saying, "Well, a Chinese company bought Magnequench and then they decided that they were going to move the whole company from Indiana to China.  What Clinton doesn't tell voters is that Magnequench was originally sold to Chinese interests during her husband's administration, which okayed the move despite concerns about national security and eventual job loss. Experts say the Chinese acquired the "technical sophistication" that created the magnets long before George W. Bush took office."

by Renie 2008-05-04 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

The gas tax holiday HELPS the oil companies. By lowering the tax, oil companies will increase the prices with the expectation of higher demand.  

The gas tax holiday is tax relief for the oil companies, not the consumer. Only the windfall tax would change that, but nobody envisions the windfall tax taking effect this summer. And Clinton has already allocated windfall taxes for other sources.

Face it: the gas tax holiday is a bad pander.

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

The standing up thing during the show is interesting.  I laughed when George decided to stand up also.

by zenful6219 2008-05-04 06:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

HRC is pandering to voters.  BO i dont go negative calls hrc a panderer on national tv.  Then in the next quesion he says sure i voted or a tax holiday when i was in IL and that is how i konw HRC is a panderer.  Does he think we are not listening.  BO was for the gas tax before he was agaisnt it.  FLIP FLOP>

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

BO can't pander because he's used up all his pandering vouchers while in Illinois.

by zenful6219 2008-05-04 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

It's called learning from your mistakes. Hillary unfortunately hasn't as she wants to go to war with Iran.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-04 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

really?  Are you referring to her statement that IF IRAN nuked Israel, we would retaliate?

please.  I would hope that any president would retaliate if that happened.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 06:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

They both have said we would retaliate.  Clinton said we would obliterate them.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:15AM | 0 recs
that's right
and so would any good president say that.  That is how you stop them from even considering such a thing.
You nuke another country and we wipe you out.  It's the price we pay for being the only world super power.  We can not pretend it doesn't matter or that we are going to blow up munitions dumps if they nuke Israel or any other country.
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:31AM | 0 recs
No...

when a country fears attack, they don't disarm.  They build up their arsenal.  The history of war is full of examples of this.  So, her over-the-top threat was not only poor policy, but also counterproductive.

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Really.  Because it might also be called being a hypocrite.  Do as a say not as i do.  Something condesending elitist do.  Something someone would do if they dont think the rules apply to them.

I just wonder what BO supporters would say if HRC changed her mind on an issue and then attacked Bo as a panderer based on something she had changed her mind on.  It would be bosnia a steroids.

And BO thinks Iran is more important then Israel. Much like his mentor Rev Wright thinks.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 06:56AM | 0 recs
baloney

it is called "I got caught without an oppositional stance and had to invent one."

This is going to cost him votes.  People know they can use the relief and they don't need Obama saying they don't, lying about the savings and predicting doom about what the oil companies will do.  The US is not IL and I am sure the US senate and congress will handle the matter much better than his state legislature did.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

For some reason, some people think a short-term solution is a bad thing. It's not. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck. They live in the short-term. They understand short-term. You're right, Obama got caught without a short-term stance.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

But economists don't even think that it makes sense short term, since you can't mandate that a tax reduction is passed along to consumers.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

I guess i did know that economists get to run the county.  We elect a leaders you dont get to be one because you are an economists.  Do you really think people having a hard time making ends meet care the the F economists think.

What a joke.  

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

Apparently, we don't really need a President. We just need a team of economists.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:22AM | 0 recs
I know they won't appreciate dying in...

a bridge accident like in Minnesota in order for a benefit that will be eaten up by the oil companies.  The reason why we bandy about the expert opinion is b/c they know through study and research that it will not have a benefit for consumers.  That's why economists opinion's are relevant.

by nklein 2008-05-04 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

The idea that one must not change one's position is just absurd.  Haven't you ever changed your mind about something?  I sure have -- based on changing ciurcumstances and information.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Haven't we learned anything from George Bush's approach of knowingly continuing bad policy..after you are well aware that its bad policy?

We should want a president who has the insight and humility to admit mistakes and change course instead of the cowboy mentality used by Geeorge Bush.  

That sir is not a flip-flop. It is showing good judgment.

by april34fff 2008-05-04 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Are you being deliberately dishonest or are you just ignorant about Obama's experience with the gas tax issue in Illinois. He has said many times that he learned the lesson back then that the gas tax holiday was a bad policy idea. He learned his lesson.

Clinton, presumably, also learned that lesson. But she pretends voters are too stupid to know any better.

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Yes BO learned that it is ok to change his position so he can attack someone else and that is ok.  FLIP FLOP.  

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:22AM | 0 recs
Obama supporter

attacks Clinton, calling her a panderer.  Fine, because Hillary comes right back and gives a good answer... " I have both a long term plan and a short term plan".

Then she explains it....

Then she says being attacked is part of the political process and she understands it.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama supporter

In otherwords, the Obathugs are going to try to dominate the town hall, but its ok, because Hillary is able to handle herself and answer questions that are off-script?

by bobbank 2008-05-04 06:45AM | 0 recs
yup

but they didn't try to stop the tough questions since they knew the woman was a Obama contributor before she asked the question.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: "Obathugs" ???

Now, see, we hear all the time how bad Obama supporters are, how Obama supporters need to STOP being ride to Clinton supporters and how Obama supporters just BETTER be constantly apologetic to Clinton supporters because someday Obama may NEED her supporters,

well, then, it's REALLY OK for Clinton supporters to TRASH Obama supporters because WHY?

Do Clinton supporters  think you may some day NEED Obama supporters?

OR

Do Clinton supporters just want Obama supporters to leave the Party for the General Election when Clinton gets the nomination?

Its important to remember these types of slurs against Obama supporters and I mean that, remember them the next time someone makes a claim about Obama supporters needing to watch what they say.

by Wary 2008-05-04 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: "Obathugs" ???

Oh and who are the people coming in and trolling, threatening and harassing HRC supporters- you Obamacans. So yeah thugs is a good metaphor, because you are acting like thugs. Stop trolling, threatening and harassing HRC supporters and we'll stop calling you thugs. It's so hypocritical for you to whine about being called thugs when you act like ones. We know you rabid Obamacans will never vote for Hillary, and well, your behavior has made it certain most HRC bloggers will NEVER vote for Obama. You Obathugs started and continue to do this harassment and threats- you are really rich to complain when we call you on it. You must be used to doing that crap back in the Republican party that you belonged to before 2004 and winning. That apparently works for Republicans, but it doesn't for  HRC backers who are lifelong liberal Democrats and come from Democratic families. We are the heart and soul of the Democratic party, you and your candidates campaign think you can harass and threaten us you've got another thing coming.

by K1966 2008-05-04 08:51AM | 0 recs
I am not a thug!

This and the cultist charge are the most disgusting things that Clinton supporters are doing this primary season, b/c you're not attacking the candidate, you're attacking his supporters.  We haven't done anything to you, but thugs and cult members and the drop of a hat.  What the fuck?  Where do you get off?  There is no call for that, but hate and bitterness.  So I will TR people who insist on insulting their fellow Democrats (the ones you'll need in November).  

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I am not a thug!

and calling Hillary supporters republicans, war mongers, and racist are some of the most disgusting things that Obama supporters have been doing this primary season.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:04AM | 0 recs
Did I call you that?

No.  So don't call me a thug.  If you haven't, then my comment is not addressed to you.  I can't control other people, but I can control myself.  I can also call out when people are saying inappropriate things as I have for both Clinton and Obama supporters.  Will you say how inappropriate bobbank's statement is?  Or are you going to be hypocritical?

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Did I call you that?

I didn't call you a thug.  However, you stated Clinton supporters - not just one person.

So, I responded with Obama supporters.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Did I call you that?

It's happened more than once from Clinton supporters on this site, so I wanted to respond to it.  I have and will continue to call out those Obama supporters who go over the line and I hope you will do the same with Clinton suporters.

by nklein 2008-05-04 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama supporter

It's pandering because the gas tax holiday is bad policy that sounds good.

It doesn't matter that it's short term if it's a bad idea for long term or short term.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:00AM | 0 recs
bullshit

and obsessing over this one point will not make it so and won't stop the fact that he is going to be hurt by his flip flop of a position on the gas tax holiday.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

And I guess that's why he features the issue in his two minutes closing argument ads for NC and IN.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

Uh no..he's not going to be hurt over this gas tax nonsense because for one it a foolish idea-that notion that $30 a month is actually going to spur the economy is silly. Second, the fact that he realized he made a mistake and then corrected himself is called wisdom...not a flip-flop. But I guess some of you aren't able to understand that because you are all so wise and perfect so you've never made any error in your perfect lives.

Not.

by april34fff 2008-05-04 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

I don't believe that Hillary stated that the tax relief is going to spur the economy.

but it will help those who are living paycheck to paycheck and that 30 bucks can buy some groceries.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

So what about non-drivers? Don't they need the extra 30 bucks for groceries as well?

by april34fff 2008-05-04 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

well, non-drivers are not driving.  Hence, they already have the 30 bucks PLUS whatever the average person pumps at the gas station.

it isn't BS.  Call it what you want, but there are some people who commute a lot more than I do and it will be more than 30 bucks a month

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

Well, most economists disagree with you.

by april34fff 2008-05-04 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

the same economists that stated that the Bush tax cut was good for the country?

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

Most economists believe that this gas tax will boost demand and the actual benefits will go to the oil comps. Not the drivers.

by april34fff 2008-05-04 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit
I agree 100% but let me correct you and reinforce
your point its not $30 a month its less then $30 for the whole summer for the average american
by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

He just said the UN is more important then are defensive of Israel.  I guess he picked that up from Rev Wright.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

That isn't what he said.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 06:58AM | 0 recs
so what did he say?

don't worry we will have the transcript later.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: so what did he say?

He criticised HRC because he said Iran could go to the UN and whine about the US.  What do you call that.  Does BO think what Iran whines about at the UN is more important that making it clear they can drop and H bomb on israel.  Because that is what he said.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: so what did he say?

He talked about the fact that Iran was going complaining to the UN about threatening remarks from HRC and other American leaders.  He said nothing about Israel.

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:23AM | 0 recs
will manufacturing jobs come back?

We can stop losing jobs and we should stop giving tax breaks to companies who export jobs.

American workers should be producing our military goods.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: will manufacturing jobs come back?

Isn't it incredible that we outsource the manufacturing of some of our military components?  When I learned that I was thinking - wow, that's pretty dumb.

by bobbank 2008-05-04 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: will manufacturing jobs come back?

and I believe Obama has stated that he will continue that outsourcing (re:  Blackwater)

If he has changed his position on this, I would love to know.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: will manufacturing jobs come back?

He has actually since the beginning of his campaign said that he would tax companies that take jobs overseas and give credits to companies that keep jobs here.  Also, what does Blackwater (a military contractor) have to do with out-sourcing?

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: will manufacturing jobs come back?

Too bad that started in the Clinton administration. That plant in Indiana was a good example of outsourcing military parts to China. Hillary wanted to blame it on Bush, but it started under Clinton. Oh the protectionist come lately!

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:28AM | 0 recs
Did Indiana lose ground during Bill's term? YES!

Yes Indiana did lose economic ground during Bill Clinton's term.

Indiana Business Review

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-04 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: will manufacturing jobs come back?

wrong.  I grew up in Michigan and outsourcing of jobs began in the 1970's.  

You can't BLAME everything on the Clinton's, even though that seems to be an Obama meme

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: wimp factor

HRC just went into not one, but two lion's dens:  first taking on Olbermann, then O'Reilly. Today she's taking questions -- tough ones -- direct from the citizens of Indiana and North Carolina in a town hall type forum. Obama was invited, but did not want to participate.  HRC also invited him to join her in a series of "Lincoln/Douglas" style one-on-one debates with no moderator.  Agai, Obama declined.  He'd rather play softball with Russert on his buddy station NBC.

by moevaughn 2008-05-04 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Obama looking great on MTP.

by Bobby Obama 2008-05-04 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

He's looking good because Tim Russert is handling him with velvet gloves.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Easy to look good with rehersed scripts and no tough questions.. wheeeee. :)

by bobbank 2008-05-04 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Funny because i think BO looks like a egg head (and by the way egg heads rule).  But remember like it not voters like the "who do you want to have a beer with?.  He doesnt really come across as a guy you want to have a beer with.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

And is this what you think is important?  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

You actually should not underestimate this.  For many Americans their Presidential vote is a very visceral choice, not at all grounded in policy or positions.

by bobbank 2008-05-04 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

There's a time to be an egghead and a time to be "someone you want to have a beer with." MTP is not the time to go all aw shucks. Even George W. Bush knew that.

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

becauase Beer is important to people like that

any idiot that believes Hillary NOW Beer was the reason they are on this planet

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:20AM | 0 recs
Upon re-reading this comment...

I decided that I did not want to mojo it.  I tried to change it, but I couldn't.  I just wanted that known.  I also would like to know how to change a rating, b/c I understand it can be done, but I don't know how to do it.

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Yes i think winning in the fall is important.  On the other hand you seem to be only interested in attacking HRC.  How many times did you post about bosnia.  So please.  And i saw yesterday you just decided you cant vote for HRC.  Really after months of smearing here you suddenly just decided.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I think we've had seven wonderful (not) years of a guy you'd like to have a beer with. Fortunately, I wouldn't want to have a beer with either of our candidates.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

There is a nice suit sitting there in the chair.

Substance?

If talking about how bad your opponent is "change", I suppose that's at least something in the suit.

by emsprater 2008-05-04 07:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

So offensive.

The man was editor of the Harvard Law Review. To get that position, you have to have been in the very top of your law school class.  He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago, one of the very best law schools in the country.  

You do no credit for your case when you make such comments.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I remember when Clinton supporters had to suffer a lot of offensive language about Clinton. We still do.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

You didn't suffer it from me and I don't appreciate being lumped in with uncivil people who happen to support my candidate.  And I expect many Clinton supporters feel likewise.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

The difference in tone and substance between NBC's "interview" of BO and Clinton's grilling by George is striking. She's doing a fabulous job. Go Hillary!

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I wish I could watch. :(

by bobbank 2008-05-04 06:50AM | 0 recs
I am sure it will be on

youtube later.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

exactly, Obama's interview looks like all of his other interviews.

Hillary took a new route by answering questions from American citizens - from both camps.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

They both answer questions from citizens every single day.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

where - at a rally full of supporters?

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

He's been at countless townhall meetings and been asked thousands of questions by citizens there.  You just make yourself seem foolish if you deny that.

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

townhall meetings that are full of his supporters, no?

just as Hillary's townhall meetings are filled with her supporters.  You make yourself look foolish if you deny that one.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

Not necessarily.  It' not like people screen people at the door of those events to ensure that they are BO supporters, just as they don't screen people at HRC events to make sure they are supporters.  In fact, the campaigns prefer that undecided voters come to those events to ensure that undecided voters can hear directly from the candidate.  A vast majority of the people at these events are supporters, but as I said there is no screening to ensure that is the case.

But let's assume your premise is correct.  There was that CNN/Youtube debate where all the candidates got tough questions from citizens.  

by nklein 2008-05-04 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

The difference between the NBC and ABC interviews is that Clinton faced tough questions, Obama did not.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

I posted this on the other thread about This Week, but I thought it was an important reply from Hillary

Go Hillary - she is talking about farmers and energy.  She is correct - we need to use the WASTE from food products, which is biomass, something that a lot of people don't really talk about.

I am sure someone will make fun of her for using the words "use the cob from the corn on the cob", but she is dead-on with the biomass approach.  we should use biomass for energy production, not as a fuel, because as a fuel, it does produce the same carbon footprint as fossil fuels.  Used for energy production, it is carbon-neutral.

this woman still amazes me - so many people in the media just talk about Ethanol or nukes, and they don't talk about using waste products from food as a source of energy.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 06:50AM | 0 recs
thank you for

repeating that here.  She is so far ahead in terms of understanding policy and using new ideas that it stuns me that anyone is supporting Obama.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for

So far ahead that she voted for war without reading the NIE?

So far ahead that she blew health care reform and continues to use rhetorical tactics with Congress that imply future failures?

So far ahead that she backs a gas tax holiday that her husband's former economic staff think is trash, as do Nobel Laureates and every other economist?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for

She's also far ahead of Obama in understanding the necessity of getting up and walking out of a church while Wright preached anti-American sermons.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:16AM | 0 recs
Nice wingnut meme

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-04 07:29AM | 0 recs
I have gone to many churches over the years
I have never found one I felt I needed to leave.  but then my church attendance was never about politics.
On the other hand this is the ONLY church Obama has ever been a member of and maybe he didn't know there were black churches out there that do not preach about the evils of white people.
In my churches the pastors have always been loving and inclusive and NEVER political.
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

 BO said on TM that he follows the beliefs of the church....... That would be black theology which has it`s roots in Marxism.
by gunner 2008-05-04 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

And BO just said Rev Wright was not his Mentor or adviser he was just BO pastor.  So by BO supporters rules BO just lied.

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

How is that? What policy positions did Obama develop under the tutelage of Rev. Wright? How did Rev. Wright show the way for Obama's political career - like most mentors? Oh yeah, he didn't. He led Obama to Jesus Christ, which is what pastors do.

by elrod 2008-05-04 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

yes, but Timmy never challenged him on that did he?  Nope

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

I think Obama may be contradicting himself!  I'm pretty sure I've heard him say before that Wright was his spiritual advisor/mentor.

and where did the title of one of his books -- Audacity of Hope -- come from?  In other words, his campaign's main theme of HOPE was inspired by his relationship with whom?

by moevaughn 2008-05-04 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

Evidence, please.

Find a quote if you think that's what he said and post it.

I know the media says this, but I don't recall Obama saying it.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

'I HAVE A DEEP FAITH,' Chicago Sun-Times, April 5, 2004

   These days, [Obama] says, he attends the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant.

Race Against History, The New Republic, May 31, 2004

   Shortly before leaving Chicago for Harvard, he had a meeting with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, the charismatic black pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, one of the most socioeconomically diverse all-black congregations in Chicago. Obama was taken with Wright's worldview, perhaps best encapsulated by a Trinity brochure proclaiming that, "while it is permissible to chase `middleincomeness' with all our might," ambitious African Americans must beware the "psychological entrapment of black `middleclassness' that hypnotizes the successful brother or sister into believing they are better than the rest of US."

Sen. Barack Obama's Pastor Frames Progressive Issues Through Lens of Faith, Religion News Service, March 10, 2005

   But when talking about how religious conservatives have pushed issues such as gay rights and stem cell research into the forefront, [Wright's] voice becomes taut and his rebuke direct.

   Those who focus on these issues are building themselves up at the expense of others and, while the Bible has many references to right and wrong, Jesus only spoke against people who judged others, Wright says.

   "Are you following Jesus when you are vilifying people?" Wright asks. "The answer to that question is no."

   It's no coincidence that Wright's response to these issues is similar to that of Obama, Illinois' newest senator and one of the Democratic Party's leading lights in trying to frame traditional liberal issues as moral and religious imperatives.

   Obama met Wright 20 years ago in the process of trying to get Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ involved in some community organizing he was doing. Ever since, Obama has been a devoted member of Wright's church. Obama says that Wright is not only his pastor, but he also is his friend and mentor. And Wright is one of the people to whom he turns [to] help him explain how his liberal positions jibe with his faith.

   The fact that Obama chose Trinity is no accident. In a sea of conservative black churches, Trinity stands out in that it has welcomed in gay members, done outreach to people living with AIDS and advocated progressive positions on many social issues. . . .

   Today, Wright is quick to call those who voted for President Bush "stupid" and chastise the public for letting issues like housing for the poor "fall off the radar screen." . . .

   Obama says one of the things he has learned from Wright is that the Bible is full of references to poor people and how they should be treated. This, Obama says, is one of the points he would like Democrats to point out when Republicans try to take the religious high ground with talk of moral values.

   Wright is there to give further guidance.

   First, he says Democratic leaders need to understand why so many people feel threatened by gay people.

   "Is it that people have linked homosexuals with pedophiles?" Wright asks. "Was it that they were molested as a kid? There are all kinds of emotional stuff that come up. We have to stick with it and hear each other."

Keeping the Faith, In These Times, February 28, 2005

   Wright and Obama developed a close relationship in the intervening years, and Obama counts the Reverend among his spiritual advisers. When a reporter asked Wright what advice he would give Obama upon election to the Senate, Wright said, "My advice to him: Please stay the same as you've been ever since I've known you."

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

None of what you posted contradicts what politicsmatter said.  Where did he say that Wright was his mentor or spiritual adivisor?

by nklein 2008-05-04 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

did you even read all of it?

Obama says that Wright is not only his pastor, but he also is his friend and mentor. And Wright is one of the people to whom he turns [to] help him explain how his liberal positions jibe with his faith.

  Wright is there to give further guidance.

  Wright and Obama developed a close relationship in the intervening years, and Obama counts the Reverend among his spiritual advisers

by colebiancardi 2008-05-04 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: spiritual advisor?

I don't know how, but I must have skipped over that paragraph.  I read it through and did not see it.  Upon your reprinting of it.  I read it again and noticed it.  Mea culpa.

by nklein 2008-05-04 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

What lie? Please be specific.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:36AM | 0 recs
5 words Hillary won't say

"I learned from a mistake"

Obama just said this about his gas vote in Illinois.  In contrast Clinton's responses to the pro-corporate/globalization policies of the Clinton administration are similar to her defense of her war vote, "If I knew then what I know now...blah blah blah"

by Renie 2008-05-04 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: 5 words Hillary won't say

Or i feel ok changing positions to attack HRC.  Funny to me he just seems like a hypocrite for voting to a gas tax and then attacking HRC.  But i agree he did leasn something.  How to flip flop. He also thinks it is ok to lie.  Rev Wright was not my mentor adviser but he was just my pastor.  

david

by giusd 2008-05-04 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: 5 words Hillary won't say

Flip flop?  Oh you mean like voting for the war and then being against it AFTER thousands of Americans and Iraqis are killed?  Or do you mean voting for NCLB and then campaigning against it? Oh, I know, you must be talking about supporting NAFTA and then saying it's hurting Americans.  Perhaps you're talking about complaining about the loss of a plant in Indiana after her husband okayed its sale to the Chinese.

If you want to call Obama a flip-flopper please be prepared to deal with the flippety flopping Hillary has engaged in as a candidate.

by Renie 2008-05-04 07:49AM | 0 recs
he's full of shit

he just needed a different position so that he could draw distinctions.  But he chose wrong and now he will pay for it.

On the other hand, it is adult to take responsibility by saying you did the best you could with the information you had at the time.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:33AM | 0 recs
Re: he's full of shit

Why does every expert disagree with Clinton's position? Are they full of it?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-04 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: he's full of shit

I've read some who say it won't make a difference either way, except it will get some relief to consumers. More importantly, it will be the first step in taking on oil companies who are taking advantage of our highways and bridges to make obscene profits.

by TexasDem4Clinton 2008-05-04 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: he's full of shit

link please

I have yet to find someone to say it won't make a differnce either way  or that it is taking on the oil companies please direct me to where you read that

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: he's full of shit

I've calculated how much relief I would get, it's $20.  As a Democrat who believes in the New Deal I think that in a recession I would rather pay the twenty bucks and have the money go to giving people jobs fixing roads and bridges than have everyone get a tiny bit of cash and have less federal money available to fix roads.  Our roads are already in horrible condition and as it is I'm scraping to pay $400 for new tires.  Twenty bucks in my pocket is not worth 9 billion dollars in lost revenue for road construction.

How much will you save?  Try the gas holiday calculator,

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cl iid=13lkzo

by Renie 2008-05-04 08:02AM | 0 recs
you are full of it

for saying every expert agrees with Obama.

PM, it is really funny that you feel you need to answer every single comment.  I think if you are not one of the 8 dollar an hour bloggers you really should be.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-04 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama on NBC, Hillary on ABC

you are full of it (none / 0)

for saying every expert agrees with Obama.

*****
TERESA find me 1 expert that does not work for the oil company that agrees with Hillary or disagree with Obama

by wellinformed 2008-05-04 07:57AM | 0 recs

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