Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I know that the Obama paid bloggers and volunteers are all over here saying the race is over, but it's not.  So here are some interesting numbers for all of us to chew on.

Tonight should be very interesting.  I hear there is same day registration to vote?  I wonder how many people will register and vote today?

I also hear that MI has reached an agreement with the Democratic party and it will be announced soon.  That could just be rumor.

From the hub

By the Numbers: A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows that more than six in 10 Democrats 64 percent say Clinton should remain in the race.A USA Today Poll also shows a majority of Democrats want Hillary to continue.

On the Air: In a new radio ad, Hillary encourages West Virginians to get out and vote: We can pick a president.  After all, no Democrat has been elected president without winning West Virginia for almost a hundred years.  

Clinton Fever Hits Bowling Green  Clinton fever has come to Bowling Green . Kentucky for Hillary opened a new office and held an open house Monday. Crowds turned out to show support for their favorite candidate. A candidate they hope will stand out in Kentucky next week "The woman has a lot of purpose, said Barbara Burns, a Clinton supporter. "She wants to serve our country as best she can, and I believe she can do that as president.

SD Endorsement Watch: Yesterday, 41 former South Dakota state legislators and constitutional officers endorsed Hillary for President. With over 330 years of combined experience, they believe that South Dakotans need a President who will stand with them.  Former State Representative Al Waltman said, Hillary Clinton has real solutions to our economic problems and she has the experience and resolve to make those plans a reality. Read more

On Tap: This Friday and Saturday, Hillary returns to the Beaver State , where she will meet with Oregonians from across the state.

more on those poll numbers from ABC.

Pushing back against political punditry, more than six in 10 Democrats say there's no rush for Hillary Clinton to leave the presidential race - even as Barack Obama consolidates his support for the nomination and scores solidly in general-election tests.
Clinton Obama
The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll finds that while a majority of likely Democratic voters want Sen. Barack Obama to be the nominee, most don't think Sen. Hillary Clinton should get out of the race.
(AP Photos)

Despite Obama's advantage in delegates and popular vote, 64 percent of Democrats in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll say Clinton should remain in the race. Even among Obama's supporters, 42 percent say so.

Buyers remorse?

And finally here is what is happening in Fl.

Note: The popular votes in Florida have already been certified by
election officials, and officially tallied by the Secretary of State.

With no campaigning, there were 996,158 more Democrat voters in 2008
than in 2004
With no campaigning, there were 1,198,004 more Democrat voters in 2008
than in 2000

Total Voter Registration in 2008 for the Presidential Preference was
10,203,112. Turnout was 4,268,602. 41.8% turnout rate
Total Voter Registration in 2004 for the Presidential Preference was
3,916,207. Turnout was 786,203. 20.1% turnout rate
Total Voter Registration in 2000 for the Presidential Preference was
6,941,509. Turnout was 1,341,844. 19.3 % turnout rate

Facts, charts and Graphics here
http://www.diversit yj.com/Florida20 00to2008. html

These are facts folks, please do not counter with nonsense talking points.

Tags: campaign 2008, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I guess I'm still waiting for my check.

by vermontprog 2008-05-13 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Me too.  Paid bloggers?  Where's my money?


by fogiv 2008-05-13 08:04AM | 0 recs
I heard he also paid off the 1.5 million Americans

who've donated to his campaign.

Will the Obama camapign stop at nothing!?

by DSloth 2008-05-13 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: I heard

Yeah, how did Obama pull that off?  I pay him, then come here and write posts.

by deminva 2008-05-13 11:25AM | 0 recs
Send my check, Obama!!!
I have NEVER received a single payment from the Obama campaign for blogging. People on MyDD are saying that Obama is actually paying other bloggers, while my superior blogging skills go uncompensated?!? WTF?!?!?!? Are you kidding me?!? This is an outrage!!!

Adding insult to injury, I'm donating my money, to his campaign. This is an outrage!

That's it! No more! I'm going ON STRIKE!!!

You heard me Obama... I'm *O*N* *S*T*R*I*K*E*!!!

by power of truth 2008-05-13 07:08PM | 0 recs
What I love

is that this diary is touting the decision by the REPUBLICAN Florida Secretary of State to certify a primary held AT THE INSISTANCE of a REPUBLICAN Governor.

Ohh the irony.  

But then I guess you have to be a Floridian to remember the last Secretary State of Florida...  

by fladem 2008-05-13 08:29AM | 0 recs
Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Lots of good numbers for Hillary here.

by X Stryker 2008-05-13 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: What I love

My understanding was that a Tax Referendum was on the ballot, which is why they had a high turnout.  But people only showed up to vote for Hillary!  

by Tumult 2008-05-13 07:43PM | 0 recs
"Obama paid bloggers"

Watch out Teresa, here come the black helicopters!

by McNasty 2008-05-13 07:27AM | 0 recs
It's a known fact...

In the run up to the campaign I remember reading that the Obama campaign was hiring some of the top reputation management firms in the business. These days, that includes paid blogging (i.e. 'viral marketing') bury brigades, etc.

Don't act so innocent.

by architek 2008-05-13 07:46AM | 0 recs
how about some actual proof.

come on bring it out.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: how about some actual proof.

shush!  (whispers)  Don't press it.  They may have some grainy photos of the the solid gold baby that Obama uses to hypnotize people.  We don't want that info to get out.


by fogiv 2008-05-13 08:07AM | 0 recs
sorry got

(whispers) see ya at the next cult meeting

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: sorry got

Infinito Obamanem!

Sanctvs, sanctvs, sanctvs!

by fogiv 2008-05-13 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: how about some actual proof.

Now THAT was funny!

by fugazi 2008-05-13 08:15AM | 0 recs

That is quite beneath you.

I was always charged with being a paid blogger by Obama and Clintons supporters and I never was.  

I don't think you are one.

Obama does not need to pay bloggers.  He has plenty of support.  I fought with those people for a year when Edwards was running.  They are liek the rest of us: they believe in their chosen candidate.  That's all.

Support your candidate and stop attacking people.  

by TomP 2008-05-13 08:08AM | 0 recs
Well, I call bullshit, too.

Nothing is beneath architek, and don't you try and convince anyone otherwise, dammit.

by bookish 2008-05-13 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's a known fact...
You had me at "paid blogging", but lost me at "top reputation management firms". (I'm trying to get paid here...)

I usually blog in sweatpants (or even less sometimes). Are you saying I need to go to an office and wear a tie? How big are these checks actually? I'll consider showering and maybe some business casual clothes if the checks are large enough...

* * * Will blog for $$$$$$ * * *

Obama, Hillary, (maybe not McCain unless it's a LOT of $$) it doesn't matter... I need the money!

by power of truth 2008-05-13 07:17PM | 0 recs
personal attack

I know someone who was a paid blogger for Obama very briefly.  He made 8 dollars an hour.  Thats just the facts folks.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-13 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

Fact, with no substantiation, other than your say-so, doesn't make it so.

I could say the same thing in reverse.  I happen to know of a Clinton supporter/blogger that is being paid, even as we speak.  Would you believe me?

by DemsRising 2008-05-13 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack
Calling someone a liar after they say they know a paid blogger is a personal attack too.
by adrienne4dean 2008-05-13 01:28PM | 0 recs
O know someone with six heads...

...and another person who has a tail and someone else who has wings and flies. Just the facts!

by Lieber 2008-05-13 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

Well, it's a fact, anyway.  

As for your great numbers for Clinton: You skipped the topline of the poll with the numbers of folks who want Clinton to stay in the race.  First, Obama leads Clinton by 12 points.  Second, Obama gets 51% over McCain and has a far bigger margin against him than does Clinton.

Some other not-so-great numbers: What is it, 30+ superdelegates for Obama in the last week?

Clinton will assuredly get some good numbers tonight, but their a bright moment in the sunset of her candidacy.

by deminva 2008-05-13 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

My favorite thing is the "Superdelegate Watch".

It seems that NONE of those people who endorsed are Superdelegates, so the title is misleading at the best.

by Darknesse 2008-05-13 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

I don't know what you're referring to.  Many blogs and news outlets have daily superdelegate watches, because superdelegates are endorsing Obama every day.  Once in a while, an important Democrat who isn't a superdelegate, like George McGovern, endorses Obama.  They aren't counted with the supers.

by deminva 2008-05-13 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

If you are suspicious of Super Delegate counts (as you should be!), then you'll like DemConWatch's SD Endorsement List.  The site has a complete list of committed SDs for each candidate, and if you drill down on a name, you'll be taken to the relevant press release or newspaper story announcing the endorsement.  

As of now, the SD count is:

Obama - 283        Clinton - 270.5     Uncommitted -  241.5*
* About 49 of the remaining SDs are add-on delegates that will break heavily for the winner of their state, so they aren't entirely uncommitted, nor do they have the same broad mandate to cast for the "best" candidate.

Obama needs about 25 of the remaining 192.5 SDs (not counting the add-ons) to clinch the nomination, assuming the rules committee doesn't seat FL/MI as is.  If they do seat as is, then he'll need about 40% of the SDs.  

That's why the sizable number of SD endorsements is fatal to Sen. Clinton: to win, even with FL/MI seated as is she needs to get 1.5 endorsements for every Obama endorsement.  He's racking up about 4-6 per day since last week.  She's not unrolling the 6-9 she needs - she's unveiling roughly 1 a day. Another day or two and she'll be beyond hope.

by Twin Planets 2008-05-13 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack

I know someone who was a HRC blogger, she made minimum wage...Hasn't been paid yet...Oops...

by hootie4170 2008-05-13 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: personal attack
Shit. I'm not even getting out of bed for less than $50 an hour. That's ridiculous! I have crazy-mad blogging skills and cannot accept less than $65/hour. (You seen the price of gas lately?)

Screw it, I give up on my short-lived dream of being a high-paid, blogger-for-hire assasin!

by power of truth 2008-05-13 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

T-- did you see those EV maps in the top corners of myDD?  Guess what guys, once again "it's florida, stupid."

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Heh. Alright, but notice how badly Clinton loses Michigan? And she picks up Indiana, really? Wow. You might not want to put all your stock in that poll, methinks, but whatever works for you.

by ragekage 2008-05-13 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

you're kidding right?  didnt BO actaully attain his delegate lead by winning, for the most part red states?  so i wouldnt start about IN

by canadian gal 2008-05-13 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

No, I'm saying in the electoral count, it's giving her IN, WA, OR, IA, etc, where she's polling below McCain in every instance I found

by ragekage 2008-05-13 02:45PM | 0 recs
There it is again.

Amazing how the Clinton CA, NY, NJ, etc. primary wins are suggestive that Obama won't win those places in the GE. National polls and recent polls in those states show him beating McSame handily. The electability arguments are a tad passé.

by bookish 2008-05-13 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I love that it comes down to polls. Or bowling.  Or beer drinking.  Anything, anything other than the delegates.  Since Feb. 5, Hill's losing by a huge margin among Super Dels, but I'd like to draw your attention to the ARG poll in the upper right hand corner.  When you look at that, she's still behind and can't make it up.  Though it should be a good speech tonight on how West Virginia and its 95 percent white voting population in a Democratic primary is the perfect harbinger for the nation.

by niksder 2008-05-13 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

So let's rely solely on a snapshot of how we predict voters will behave six months from now rather than how voters actually have behaved in order to determine our party's nominee?  Is that your logic?

by Brad G 2008-05-13 07:37AM | 0 recs
It certainly would be SMART

Unless we want to give away the Presdency to McSame in November.

Just look at the maps. The areas where Hillary is strong ARE THE AREAS WE NEED ESPECIALLY TO WIN.

Maybe in 2012, if gas prices and rents in cities keep going up, some of the Democrats in the cities will be making stronger Dem constituencies in rural areas, sort of like what happened with New Orleans, except with a different cause. We will need to turn that TRAGEDY into a good thing, THEN.

REGARDLESS, NOW, and then, we need all the strength outside of the traditional Dem urban areas that we can get.

by architek 2008-05-13 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: It certainly would be SMART

I totally agree.  Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, Virginia, New Mexico.  We definitely need those.

by edparrot 2008-05-13 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

It's much more than a snapshot.

Florida is tailor-made for a Clinton win:  hispanics, seniors, rural working class.  Dems can win Fla and the GE with Hillary

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-13 08:47AM | 0 recs
I hope you know

Texas better than Florida.  Over half the Hispanics in Florida are Cuban (and as Republican as you get), the elderly have consistently voted GOP, and Democrats have won two statewide races since 2002 (and one of those was against Kathleen Harris).

Of course, for Democrats Florida depends on winning the I-4 corridor where the suburban vote dominates AND getting a big turnout among African Americans (the latter is why Gore was able to win in 2000).

by fladem 2008-05-13 08:54AM | 0 recs
Missing Detail

The Jewish vote in South Florida.  Lieberman on the Gore 2000 ticket is what made it so close in Florida that year.  Without him in 2004, Florida was very red.  5% points is huge in a state with 18,000,000 people.  

Obama isn't going to compete in Florida if he wins the nomination.  It was specifically omitted from his Battleground States strategy he released a few weeks ago.  Florida is much too expensive and much too difficult demographically for Obama to penetrate to justify wasting the tens of millions necessary to compete there.  The money will instead go to Colorado, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc.

by BPK80 2008-05-13 01:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Missing Detail

Yeah, country at war had nothing to do with it.  It was all the absence of Joementum.

by niksder 2008-05-13 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

So the election only takes place in FL?  We don't have contests in WI, WA, MN, etc.?  That would save taxpayers a lot of money, and I'm sure they'd love it!

by Brad G 2008-05-13 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

no, we'll just hold the election in WV. only WV. you know, they vote for the winner, so why hold a vote anywhere else?

by terra 2008-05-13 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

WV sure didn't pick the winner in 1988 (Dukakis).  Or 1980 (Carter).

by Brad G 2008-05-13 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

you're right - lets ignore polls because they dont say what we want them too.

by canadian gal 2008-05-13 11:27AM | 0 recs

Those things have Obama losing Wisconsin and Michigan, which... ain't gonna happen.

As for Florida, how's it going to look when people get to the polls and see Clinton's name next to the gay marriage amendment that will be on Florida's ballot?  Your candidate is famous for being friendly to gays.  She panders at gay events all the time.  Clinton supporters denegrate Obama for not being gay friendly enough (despite the fact that he treats them no better and no worse than he does any other American).

So what's going to happen when all the senior citizens and ethnic Catholics see Clinton's name next to that amendment?  Why would they vote on the issues on one hand and then work against those same issues on another?

Florida is designed to fail for the Democrats this year.  The Republican legislature and Gov. Crist have set it up that way, and Clinton supporters who refuse to campaign for Democrats down there like Debbie Wasserman-Schultz aren't helping anything.  If Clinton were to win the nomination and hang her hopes on Florida, we're doomed.  Again.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure.

I've tried to tell 'em a million times McCain is never in a thousand years winning Michigan, but they don't believe me. They try to tell me they know my home state more than I do, despite the fact that Michigan voted for Gore and then Kerry, and Granholm over DeVos, and has both senators democratic, and a huge AA vote, and is more similar culturally to WI, MN and yes, even Canada, than it is to Ohio, IN or PA.

by terra 2008-05-13 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

You don't have to admit that it's over for it to be over.  So it's cool if you want to keep it up and see how close you can come.

Clinton has done a good job of laying off of Obama, and that's all we really wanted anyways.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-13 07:32AM | 0 recs
Then why is Obama attacking working people's

security by parroting right wing talking points o healthcare.. i.e. "
consumer driven healthcare

McCain's "choice" and Obama's "choice"
are THE SAME THING. No choice at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_dr iven_health_care

by architek 2008-05-13 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Then why is Obama attacking working people's

Could you provide a link where Obama promotes "consumer-driven healthcare" please?

by ZombieRoboNinja 2008-05-13 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Then why is Obama attacking working people's

Because mandates have worked SO well in Massachusetts.

oh wait, they've been an unmitigated disaster.

by terra 2008-05-13 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Hmmm ...

Except the most important number -- the number of pledged delegates gained during the nomination -- Hillary Clinton still remains behind. ...

by Brad G 2008-05-13 07:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

"most important number?" says who, David Axelrod? If a candidate doesn't win outright with pledged delegates, where does it state in any rule that the number of pledged delegates should somehow be dispositive? you're buying into the Obama campaign's spin, you do realize.

by Todd Beeton 2008-05-13 07:56AM | 0 recs
what spin would you like us to buy into?

the one where Hillary campaign says that she got the popular vote (which she did not) and that should be the deciding factor?

Or the one about how she is more electable...

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I think it's fair to say pledged delegates are the most important number considering how the SD's have been behaving the last two months.

They've been moving in one direction for a reason.

by map 2008-05-13 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Well, the delegates are only important for the procedure under which nominees are selected.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-13 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Just curious, are you saying that there is a different "most important number" or that there is no "most important number"?

by edparrot 2008-05-13 08:48AM | 0 recs
"most important number"
are you saying that there is a different "most important number" or that there is no "most important number"?

very well put.

by power of truth 2008-05-13 08:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Who the hell started the trend of using the asinine and pretentious word "dispositive" in this election? My money is on Lanny Davis, as it sounds tres lawyerly. I have seen this word so many times this season that it makes my head spin.

And Todd, arguing that pledged delegates are not the  determining factor if somebody comes up just short of 2025 (or 2209 if you want to play that game) is a bit silly. The pledged delegate leader is still the most equitable way of deciding this, especially if you get the supers to push you across the finish line. What other count should be used? Certainly not the popular vote if the delegate count is being used to determine the winner. This isn't Obama spin but realism within the framework of the contest.

by wasder 2008-05-13 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

The only thing that matters is delegates. Many people, myself included, believe party insiders should not overturn the electoral results by party insider fiat. So since delegates are exactly what determines the nominee, then all delegates modulo party insider fiat delegates yields delegates elected by the will of the voters.

What could be more important?

It looks like in this case, the superdelegates will follow that will; and I bet if Clinton were 100 pledged ahead at this stage, the last supers would be piling on her instead.

If you don't believe the pledged delegates should determine the nominee, then tell me what you think about a democratic election where 2,023 pledged delegates are won by one candidate, and the other earns every superdelegate and finishes with 2,024?

Yes, that's the most extreme example, but in principle, it amounts to the same thing as Obama being pledged +1 and Hillary being superdelegate +2; if she wins that way, superdelegates have overturned the election.

While being fully aware that they were created with independent judgement in mind, I submit that any such overturning is tantamount to saying, "We know better", and is consequently a bad idea. The magnitude of the pledged delegate lead and the magnitude of how loud that message is sent are in proportion.

All that in mind, I therefore submit that pledged delegates, by virtue of directly selecting the nominee and being elected by the will of the voters of their states, are the most important number, as they are the one and only route to an "honest" victory.

by mattw 2008-05-13 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary
Who cares?

Total, delegates, Pledged delegates, Super Delegates... Obama is leading in all of those metrics now.

Hillary started with a massive lead in superdelegates (more than 100), but now Obama is in front. Follow the trends. Obama has been blowing her out of the water with superdelegates since Feb 5th.

And Obama is leading in the bogus "popular vote" metric too. I see no reason for Hillary to stay in the race other than a "Democratic voter registration drive" and to wind down her campaign, pay down her $20 million debt...

by power of truth 2008-05-13 03:36PM | 0 recs
Is that the ABC/WaPo poll

That had this number as well?

Obama 53%, Clinton 41%

Oh, and also this number:

Obama (D) 51%, McCain (R) 44%

That's also the poll that showed Obama doing 4-points better than Hillary against McCain... what was that about her being more electable?

by Tatan 2008-05-13 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Is that the ABC/WaPo poll

Look at the electoral map on the front page.

by Scotch 2008-05-13 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Is that the ABC/WaPo poll

All of those polls are older than this WaPo poll.

Here's a map taking into account the more recent polls:


by Tatan 2008-05-13 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Is that the ABC/WaPo poll

Those numbers are garbage.


by mattw 2008-05-13 02:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary


please do not counter with nonsense talking points.

Like we're being paid to blog here? Heh. Just as much as Tex and Alegre are getting paid to blog here.

I hope we get Michigan settled, and Clinton doesn't shoot down another proposal.

And hey, I'm definitely one of those six in ten that want Clinton to stay in. We need to take this through June 3rd, build up party infrastructure, and make it easier for Clinton to bow out with grace- that's why I agreed when they called me.

by ragekage 2008-05-13 07:36AM | 0 recs
I could use a check from the Obama

campaign I could move into a nicer place with thicker walls and that isn't "Garden Level" (aka 1/2 under ground).  The only people I call elitists are the ones who advocate cutting taxes on the rich (1 million and up).  I don't think either democratic candidate is an elitist, in fact John McCain is

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 07:42AM | 0 recs
So, all of you Obama bloggers would be willing to

sign a pledge that you are not paid bloggers with your real names, and agree to give up your pay to an apolitical charity like disaster relief IF you are?

by architek 2008-05-13 07:58AM | 0 recs
right, because Obama

has to hire bloggers, its not like there is about 15 million supporters of his who just do it on their own.

Sign a pledge? How about a loyalty oath? Maybe a contract about how you get our first borns?

Sounds ridiculous? Well that how you comment sounds...

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:00AM | 0 recs

Use real names?  On the internet?

Nice try.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:01AM | 0 recs
you mean you won't do it

just because some internet poster demands it???

You must be a paid Obama blogger ;)

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:03AM | 0 recs

My cover! Blown!

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: So, all of you Obama bloggers would be willing

Heh. Hell, no way, I've seen how some of the diehard Clinton supporters can be on Hillaryis4 and such, and I've got a baby girl to take care of. They'd probably harass the hell out of me.

But like I said, we're getting paid just as much as Alegre and TexasDarlin.

by ragekage 2008-05-13 08:03AM | 0 recs

this is a goodie

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:04AM | 0 recs
One of the reasons they are so bitter...

is that the paid-bloggers for Sen. Clinton haven't gotten their checks since the campaign started borrowing to stay afloat.

by tonedevil 2008-05-13 08:14AM | 0 recs
I am sorry but I am going to be an

MD which means I don't want the crazies like the people at NoQuarter, TaylorMarsh or Hillis44 hassling me.  Studying can be hard with the phone ringing off the hook and people knonking on your door.

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 08:23AM | 0 recs
Nice try.

This demand really amounts to little more than a transparent attempt to "out" pseudonymous bloggers, paid or unpaid--if anything, I would argue that of the two groups, unpaid bloggers stand to risk more by their meatspace information being shared.  I can only speak with certainty for myself, but I suspect that many of us who blog pseudonymously have non-political "day jobs" that they wish to keep separate from their blogging life.    But I've been posting on the 'Net under one pseudonym or another since before there even was a World Wide Web, let alone the concept of blogging--it's a time-honored tradition in this culture.

And why exactly is this demand being made only on Obama bloggers?  Are pseudonymous Clinton bloggers somehow more special or entitled to anonymity than pseudonymous Obama bloggers?


by Progressive Witness 2008-05-13 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: So, all of you Obama bloggers would be willing

I'm a pretty well known person at least in the Phish world.  My name is not hard to find out if you were curious.  And no, alas, all of the money between the Obama camp and I has been flowing in the direction where I give them the money.

by thezzyzx 2008-05-13 08:34AM | 0 recs
My name is Jeffrey Lieber...

...and I am not a paid Obama blogger.

My email is JeffCyprss@aol.com.

Now, um, go fuck yourself.

by Lieber 2008-05-13 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: My name is Jeffrey Lieber...
Jeff, you rock! I wish I had the guts to post my personal info...

Either way, I'm not a paid blogger for anyone. The only payments I get are for designing computer systems and playing music.

by power of truth 2008-05-13 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: So, all of you Obama bloggers would be willing

That is kinda funny.. :)

Would "The Human Fund" or "Krakatoan Volcano Relief Fund" be ok?

by standd 2008-05-13 01:21PM | 0 recs
Paid bloggers? HA!
This has got to be the stupidest idea I've read on this site in awhile, and that is saying something. My check must be lost in the mail... ROTFLMAO!!!

If I'm getting paid by Obama, then I'll bet that Jerome "Crashing the Gate" Armstrong is getting paid much more to sell out for the DLC candidate. Not to mention the other daily Rec-listers here...

by power of truth 2008-05-13 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

that's why I agreed when they called me.

Well played!

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 07:50AM | 0 recs
And I'm another of the 6 in 10

so long as HRC supporters stop shooting the party in the foot. Not that I'm not glad for the process, the particularly nasty primary has been good to allow America to get over a lot of the racist and terror-mongering tactics Republicans are probably going to use. But now it's time to return to an positive issues-based campaign, the kind that Obama was winning handily before HRC HAD TO go negative to stay relevant. And a positive campaign is going to be great for Obama and the party.

by luckymortal 2008-05-13 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

You people are grasping at straws. The numbers looked better for Hillary way back in January, and she fell flat on her face. Now that she's dug a hole for herself with her "Holyier Than Thou Attitude" there is no way she can win. Every little thread you find good in HRC is combated by the fact that people just can't stand her and her attitude. The fact that she is tearing this Party apart does not help.Most Americans will find something not to like about HRC and I'm not even talking about the Republicans yet. If they ever get her into a General Election with her, watch out, she's gonna have a lot of explaining to do about the nineties, and all of her Senate campaign finance problems. Remember all those Records about Hillary that you like to glance off as Republican Rhetoric, are in the hands of a Republican White House right now. If she somehow pulls off a miracle and wins the nomination, we're in for a lot of trouble. Theresa, be careful what you wish for, your hero has feet of clay.  

by johnny sexton 2008-05-13 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Fine. You have faith in her. Ok. Put a bet on it on the Intrade and make some money while you're at it. They give her a 4% chance. So there is money to be made in this.

by MissVA 2008-05-13 07:43AM | 0 recs
Buyer's remorse?

How do you arrive at that conclusion?  The issue was whether Clinton should remain in the race.  Not whether those who voted for Obama would now switch to Clinton.

by DemsRising 2008-05-13 07:44AM | 0 recs
She IS remaining in the race.

Its not an issue. its fact.

by architek 2008-05-13 07:59AM | 0 recs
Let's try this again

What the heck does the fact that most would prefer her to remain in the race have to do with with the conclusion that it means "buyer's remorse?"

I agree that she'll remain in the race, and even that most want her to, but to conclude that this means "buyer's remorse" is absurd.  How the heck are the two connected?

That's my question.

by DemsRising 2008-05-13 08:27AM | 0 recs
If your going to use the poll

You should put it in context at the very least.


That's not a majority endorsement of Clinton's candidacy; Democrats by a 12-point margin would rather see Obama as the nominee, a lead that's held steadily in ABC News/Washington Post polls since early March


For his part, Obama, who surpassed Clinton on electability
last month, now has knocked down another of her campaign's tent posts, for the first time
slipping ahead of her as the "stronger leader." *Her *sole remaining advantage is on
experience - a challenge in a contest in which Obama's theme of "change" has far
outstripped experience as the attribute of top concern to Democrats

I know that the Obama paid bloggers and volunteers are all over here saying the race is over, but it's not.

Too funny..

by nextgen 2008-05-13 07:45AM | 0 recs

How do you figure that we're hired bloggers when you're the one who always has organized propaganda from your campaign?

Anyway, I'll address YOUR talking points:

More than 6 in 10 Democrats realize that, at this point, there's no harm in running out the rest of the primaries and that it's her choice.  It's not "buyer's remorse."

West Virginia is not voodoo.  You don't automatically win the presidency if you win WV.  There might be some oblique corrolation that you can draw, but, largely, it's a meaningless political statistic.

Florida still doesn't count until they work something out.  I'm sure that will be soon.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

If this diary is what it takes for you to get through the day........good for you for writing it

by feliks 2008-05-13 07:46AM | 0 recs

DROPOUT.JUN08.CLINTON numbers on Intrade:
Bid 77 Ask 82

If you're convinced she's going to stay in the
race beyond June, you could short these contracts
and make some money. Maybe donate your profits
to her.

The contact expires June 30, so payday is close.

by vegemighty 2008-05-13 07:46AM | 0 recs
On a side note

It seems like the Clinton campaign likes the word hub and the connotations of it being a tightly controlled campaign run from a centrally located area.

After all:

all run by the clinton campaign...

What is so great about hub?

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 07:49AM | 0 recs
it has u in it ;) its inclusive... ;-P

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:02AM | 0 recs
Hubba hubba!

Wait, not appropriate?

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: On a side note

What's all the hubbub, Bub?

by fogiv 2008-05-13 08:15AM | 0 recs
Carville on the state of the race

"I still hear some dogs barking," said Carville, the flamboyant Louisianan known as the left's ragin' Cajun. "I'm for Senator Clinton, but I think the great likelihood is that Obama will be the nominee.

"As soon as I determine when that is, I'll send him a check."
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/4032 93.html

by politicsmatters 2008-05-13 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Carville on the state of the race
Just another Judas!
by Gene In PA 2008-05-13 08:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

paid Obama bloggers? can you back that claim up?

by Todd Beeton 2008-05-13 07:56AM | 0 recs
She can't

There are paid staffers that blog, I believe, but they have their own blogs and probably don't slum here.

The evidence is that Clinton DOES have paid staffers that blog here, and many Clinton supporters always believe that the Obama campaign does all the things that the Clinton campaign is guilty of, because it helps them justify themselves.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:07AM | 0 recs
Not that this is a "slum."

I mean, I am here, and I'm, uh, pretty classy.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Not that this is a "slum."

heh.  :D

by fogiv 2008-05-13 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: She can't

Is that right?  What's the evidence that YOU have?

by Scotch 2008-05-13 08:28AM | 0 recs

The pro-Clinton bloggers are better organized and on-message than the Obama bloggers.  This is directly in contrast with every other aspect of the comparison between the campaigns.  

If Team Obama were organizing bloggers, we would see at least three diaries here on each major campaign topic every day, from three different posters, within a half hour of one another, just like we see alegre, TexasDarlin, and one or two others making the rec list instantly quoting the same article.  Some of them make the rec list before there are any comments.

Anyone who follows this site closely knows that, while Obama bloggers tend to have an incomplete knowledge of any given topic, many Clinton bloggers have a comprehensive list of talking points prepared for just about any circumstance.  The message cohesion is impressive and changes as Clinton moves on to new primaries with a new strategy.  This competance is not because they're simply better than Obama posters, it's because they are highly devoted to the campaign, rather than the message.  If it were my job to do this, I'd be better prepared and far more dogged, too.

This doesn't apply to all Clinton supporters of course, but there is something to it.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Circumstantial

Like I said, do you have any evidence.  Anybody can speculate about anything, but specifics are what count. You don't have any.

by Scotch 2008-05-13 09:34AM | 0 recs
I suppose...

...I have only circumstantial evidence, which is more than what Teresa has, apparently... and I don't go crowing about it in my diaries.

I would be very happy to never speak of it again, if she would stop accusing me of it.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-13 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: She can't

Clinton and The Clintonistas have been that way since the dawn of time.

by johnny sexton 2008-05-13 08:29AM | 0 recs
not without outing someone who

did it for a short time...one day.  

Todd, do you doubt campaigns are paying bloggers now?  I think if Clinton could afford it she might do the same thing.  it's not a big shock or anything, it's just mildly annoying.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-13 08:18AM | 0 recs
The Superdelagates are moving to Obama

all other metrics are off the table.

So why are wasting time on this primary.

Obama vs McCain

Get it!

And please dont call me a paid Obama blogger.

its just not true.

by Silence Do Good 2008-05-13 08:01AM | 0 recs
Once again, I am a paid Obama blogger

2 buckets of hope a week.

by lizardbox 2008-05-13 08:06AM | 0 recs

I get three buckets!!

by Silence Do Good 2008-05-13 08:10AM | 0 recs
Payment in FULL

by nextgen 2008-05-13 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I am a Hillary supporter.  I also won't vote for Obama in the general because my state will go Democratic anyway, so he doesn't need my vote and I'd rather not cast it for him.

That said, I think the 64% of people who want to see Hillary stay in the race might be better characterized as people who are very uncomfortable with a lot of bloviating pols and pundits trying to push her out.  It has been pretty disgusting to watch for some time now.

I don't think it's the same thing as people who feel she has much hope of getting the nomination at this point.  Just people who are sick of the pile on.  Count me among them.

That said, I think she should finish out, get as many delegates she can and sit tight.  We can only hope some other nutcase pastor or business partner or the like emerges.  I don't think it's likely at this point, but stranger things have happened.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-05-13 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

While many of us have been concerned about the divisiveness of this primary campaign, Obama has been characteristically gracious by not calling for Hillary to drop out.

by fugazi 2008-05-13 08:17AM | 0 recs

he hasn't won yet. He and everyone else knows that.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-13 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit
He hasn't won yet but she can't win.
by Gene In PA 2008-05-13 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: bullshit

All in good time, my friend. All in good time.

by fugazi 2008-05-13 08:50AM | 0 recs
I agree

but that is why I put the question mark, I think there are some of each, both people who resent the pile on and those who wish they could take their vote back or fear they might have chosen a candidate who can not win.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-13 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Wow, I hope everyone in your state doesn't feel like that. That, their vote won't count, your blue state will turn red. That's what people in Florida thought back in 2000, it's always a Blue state, so I'll just vote Buchannan.

by johnny sexton 2008-05-13 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Oregon isn't Florida.  And it's very pro-Obama.  There was one other time I didn't cast a vote for president because the Dem. was going to win more than comfortably.  It was the one time I cast a "protest vote" for an alternative candidate.  I look forward to getting to do it again.  It's a meaningless act in the grand scheme of things... just small personal gesture.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-05-13 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I understand your dilemma, but not your reasoning for casting a protest vote. There were times, I would've loved to "throw my vote away" unfortunately. Like 2004 Didn't care much for Kerry, hated Bush, screamed for anyone else who could give me something different, still looked like more of the same. So I am a little redfaced to tell how I picked. But, here goes, if I spent a night in a bar with both of these characters,talking away at me, which one would I get angry with and punch out first, that's the guy I voted against. Because that's the guy I least agreed with.

by johnny sexton 2008-05-13 10:02AM | 0 recs
Nutcase pastor...?
We can only hope some other nutcase pastor or business partner or the like emerges.
As a fellow Oregonian, and an American, I'm very disappointed to hear you say that.

Even I wouldn't wish that on a Democratic candidate.

Be careful what you wish for, it may just backfire.
by DemsRising 2008-05-13 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Nutcase pastor...?

I am certain my wishes have no cosmic force.  Things will unfold as they will.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-05-13 08:50AM | 0 recs
You've missed my point
but maybe you haven't. I wasn't discussing karmic fate, or any such thing.

I was actually, as you full well know, addressing a particular portion of your statement which I consider a very Republican comment.

by DemsRising 2008-05-13 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: You've missed my point

A Republican comment?  Oh dear.  Maybe it's the comment of a very concerned Democrat who sees nothing left but the capriciousness of fate to change the outcome of this primary.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-05-13 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: You've missed my point
Nice try. Capriciousness? Are you purposefully trying to be be obtuse?

You said "we can only hope...

I'm a concerned Democrat as well, but even I, as an Obama supporter (after Edwards) don't hope for any type of misfortune to fall on either candidate.

A shame you can't say the same thing.

by DemsRising 2008-05-13 10:52AM | 0 recs
We can only hope .....

...some other nutcase pastor or business partner or the like emerges.

Bite me asshole!

by Silence Do Good 2008-05-13 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: We can only hope .....

No, thank you.

I don't think you have to worry.  If there was something damaging out there, I suspect it would be known by now.

by Susan in Oregon 2008-05-13 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: We can only hope .....

Not necessarily. Look how long it took for "Rev Wright" hate-filled sermons to surface, and for Obama to repudiate them.

by KnowVox 2008-05-13 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I think you are right - and even though I support Obama, I agree with your points.  As long as neither candidate does any long term damage to the other one's chances - and really the only time that happened was for about a week around TX/Ohio - then this primary is nothing but a good thing.

by edparrot 2008-05-13 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

True. It doesn't matter one bit if she stays in the race. Heck, Ron Paul is still in.

by Becky G 2008-05-13 08:38AM | 0 recs
South Dakota former legislators

There's a reason Sen. Clinton had to chum for former Democratic legislators to get endorsements in South Dakota--most of our prominent national and state-wide Dems, along with 25 of the 35 Dems currently in the Lege, have already endorsed Sen. Obama.

I went to the HillaryHub and found the original article, and while there are no few names I know there, some of them still reasonably prominent, that list represents the past of the Democratic Party in South Dakota.  this list, on the other hand, is the future.

Folks in the rest of the country (and frankly, there aren't many small states about which the rest of the country knows less) may be fooled into believing South Dakota is in the tank for Clinton already because it's white and rural, but I'll be immensely surprised if Obama doesn't win the primary here.


by Progressive Witness 2008-05-13 08:42AM | 0 recs
So Many Comments

It's interesting how some of these accounts leave comments for periods of 12-18 hours straight. Blogging must be lucrative.

by owl06 2008-05-13 08:54AM | 0 recs
Or a good distraction from classes

you see when you have internet access and a laptop are the professor is lecturing on a mind/body connection blogging is one way to stay awake and still learn something.

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

I hope you are right about Michigan.  Both the "split the difference" proposal that the Clinton camp turned down and the one that was floated by one of her surrogates to split the delegates in half but give Obama uncommitted seem fine to me - one would net her 9 and one would net her 10.

I'd even be fine with not halving the delegates and giving Obama all the uncommitted (and counting Florida as is) - at this point, Florida and Michigan have paid enough.

FYI, I am an Obama supporter and I don't get paid to blog :)

by edparrot 2008-05-13 09:02AM | 0 recs
Buyers Remorse?

Nope, not at all.

From the same poll you site as a sign of buyers remorse:

"Democrats by a 12-point margin would rather see Obama as the nominee"


by WellstoneDem 2008-05-13 09:07AM | 0 recs
Oh gotta love it

"Obama paid bloggers." Sorry, I own a hair studio ( a place you probably don't frequent often) in south Florida and no... I definitely don't receive hourly blogging pay.

But you on the other hand seem to know so much about the subject, why don't you enlighten us on how paid-blogging for $8.00 works for you?

by april34fff 2008-05-13 09:24AM | 0 recs
Dear OP, using the word "fact"

does not make your whole post "factual." Aside from your conjecture giving them meaning, such as your untenable and unwarranted "buyer's remorse" extrapolation, these "facts" are a random assemblage of statistics used to bolster an unrelated argument.

by luckymortal 2008-05-13 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

It's AnchorMAN not AnchorLADY, and that's a scientific fact!

by Darknesse 2008-05-13 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

We all need to remember that just because someone endorses BHO, that does not necessarily mean they are going to vote for him at the convention.  

A vote for Hillary Clinton means never having to say you're sorry to the citizens of the United States of America and the people of the world.

by PGraber 2008-05-13 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

It's political suicide NOT to vote for Obama at this point. Do you really want to tie yourself to the mast of the SS Hillary as she sinks to the bottom?

It's no coincidence that Obama has the support of more superdelegates that are elected officials than Hillary does.

It's an interesting point that he has the support of the majority of their Senate colleagues. You know, the people that they actually work with?

by Darknesse 2008-05-13 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Faulty logic 1:
1. No non-Caucasian has ever been pres.
Therefore, no one ever will.
Faulty logic 2:
2. No woman has ever been pres.
Therefore, no one ever will.
By the same token, we would not want to see a diary using
Faulty Logic 3:
3. No Democrat president has ever lost
Washington DC primary. Therefore, no one ever will.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

by applecrispbetty 2008-05-13 01:03PM | 0 recs
I also really like these numbers

from the very same ABC/WaPo poll:

   Relatively few mainstream Democrats (as opposed to independents) say they'd cross over (13 and 10 percent, respectively). And as many Republicans say they'd defect the other way - 10 percent for Clinton if she faced McCain; 15 percent for Obama vs. McCain...

   In another measure, 26 percent say the more they hear about Obama the more they like him - more than say that about Clinton (15 percent) or McCain (14 percent). Obama's the only one among them to have gained as much as he's lost in the recent public glare.

by Tatan 2008-05-13 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

Would some of the early Obama voters like to take their votes back now that they know some of the facts about the shady politics Obama has been engaged in?

by LA 2008-05-13 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

No but this voter for Hillary did and caucused for Obama.

by temptxan 2008-05-13 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Lots of good numbers for Hillary

there are lots of ways to count, she counts!!!!

by anna shane 2008-05-13 01:43PM | 0 recs
uh yeah. Moot points.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-13 04:34PM | 0 recs
Congratulations to the Clinton campaign

for a well deserved win in WV.

And congratulations to the Obama campaign for netting 33 SDs in the last week.

by bookish 2008-05-13 05:51PM | 0 recs
Wait one minute

I just saw the "paid" part. So congratulations to the Clinton campaign, but screw her hyperbolic supporters. Paid? My ass.

by bookish 2008-05-13 05:55PM | 0 recs
Congratulations Hillary Supporters

We in the Obama contingent will have to console ourselves with the Childers win.

Next Tuesday: KY and OR.

by obsessed 2008-05-13 07:54PM | 0 recs


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