Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon: Libby was Marc Rich's Attorney

that seems like the most interesting thing I've read on Jerome's thread.

A very simple answer should have been Libby should do at least as much jail time as Paris Hilton.

The president made a big deal that he would "fire anyone involved" with Valerie Plame.

I suspect Hillary took a political pass on the Pardon Libby question because

1.   James Carville wrote a letter asking for Libby to get off.  Very likely the lobbyists and contributors to Hillary's camaign are connected to Libby, Carville, Matlin et al.

2.   If Hillary was against Pardoning Libby the right wing would have gone to town on Bill Clinton's pardons. Redredging up all those one's and reminding people about what 4 more years of Clinton politics will be about.

3. another commenter on the front page mentions no one in the Clinton camp wants the comparison of Libby's perjury before the grand jury with Bill's on Monica.

This is why Hillary can not EVER advocate anything near a progressive agenda.

Update People don't seem to get that the Libby question is not the issue. EVERY Republican candidate was asked this at the last CNN hosted debate. Certainly Team Hillary prepared a response for this question and decided that playing both sides was better than having to pick a position. It's a re-occuring theme. I remind you when Wolf Blitzer asked her if "don't ask don't tell" was a "mistake". She did not say yes, she did not say no. She said it was right for the time but now she's changed.

If anything we can be sure all presidential candidates talk about questions asked of other candidates at other televised debates in advance of their own debate.

according to wikipedia, Clinton's pardonee Marc Rich was represented by none other than Scooter Libby. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby

Tags: Hillary (all tags)



some one else said it best

"Hillary is all the negatives of the "liberal" label, without the progressive agenda"..

her inability to answer this question shows why if she's the nominee most of the netroots won't care that much.

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 06:14AM | 0 recs
She SHOULD take a pass on that stupid question...

I don't give a DAMN about I. "Scooter" Libby.  Period.

Why?  Because his is a rich, white elitist guy, who won't go to prison, will get pardoned, could give a damn about what he did, best buddies of the POTUS & VPOTUS, and will be compensated for keeping his mouth shut.

Scooter Libby, is the LEAST, I mean LEAST, problem of what is going on in this country.  I understand what he did was wrong, but when I am listening to questions from candidates for POTUS, the last question I want to hear is about what they think about "fall guy" Scooter Libby.


by icebergslim 2007-06-19 06:23AM | 0 recs
than say

we are a nation of laws and no one's above it...

It also was a question at the GOP debate that did not have a single opinion.  So it's fair enough....

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 06:25AM | 0 recs
That is a bullshit question,

that is like, "what do you think of Paris Hilton spending time in jail?"  It is a nothing question and the audience was absolutely RIGHT in yelling at Matthews for "REAL QUESTIONS".  We all know Scooter Libby is a P.O.S. (and this does not mean point of sale), but we all know he will not do any jail time.  Why waste a question on a convicted felon?  We have Iraq, Health Care Costs, Katrina Debacle, Education, Jobs, Economy, Energy Problems, shit it goes on and on.  I want answers to those questions, not an opinion on Scooter "lowlife" Libby!!

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 06:30AM | 0 recs
it's certainly not the most germane

but it was really a "gotcha" question.

Is Hillary going to side with the base of the party that thinks everyone should be treated equally or

is she going to side with her fundraisers and pals like carville who see Libby as a nice guy doing his job?

It was a gotcha question in which if she said no pardon - everyone would have brought back all the Clinton pardons, and grand jury stuff etc....  it was a hardball question which she obviously had practiced not to answer.

every republican in the last debate was asked it by CNN so I know she had prepared for it

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 06:34AM | 0 recs
Yes, gotcha question,

which is just what OBAMA said people do not want.  And we don't.  Do you know how many bullshit questions was asked during CNN?  Too MANY.  People don't care about Scooter Libby, they don't.  Many don't give a damn about Alberto Gonzales outside DC, they don't.  People want you to answer questions that is affecting their everyday life, that bothers them, and affect them.  Scooter Libby, sorry, DOES NOT.

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 06:42AM | 0 recs
what I find most fascinating

is that if Hillary does her homework at the MSM likes to repeat,  they clearly went over this question and  deciding not answering it was the best answer.

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, gotcha question,
Jeeez!  so Obama is advocating we remain stupid about candidates' associates!!
Obviously his campaign speeches omit his association with DC insider warhawks - and they're still on his payroll.
by annefrank 2007-06-19 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, gotcha question,

You know, I know you are an avid Edwards hawk, but my statement does not in anyway reflect to remain stupid on candidates association.  Is this a campaign issue, who we know, talk to on the phone, eat dinner with, email?  If it is, the american public is drastically being disserviced.  Unless this person is straying the candidate illegally.  We know about Carville, and he has been cleaning up is act, somewhat lately.  Never been a fan of his, never will be.  Think he is a closeted "republican lite", but this is the Clinton thing.  Clinton camp knows he is a blessing and curse.  And if they continue to associate with him on the Libby matter is something that they will weigh into on.  If they decide to stick with him, it could become an issue, if not there is nothing to discuss.  If you want to win this election, stick with what matters to the public, THEIR ISSUES.

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, gotcha question,
Oh - I thought the war WAS an issue for voters.
Apparently, Obama thought nothing of billing himself as the candidate who opposed the war - while KNOWING most of his supporters wouldn't know he has warhawks and Neocon type advisors on his staff!
by annefrank 2007-06-19 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, gotcha question,

Does she not think the crime Libby, Rove and others did deserves jail... This is an issue, they took the country wrongly to WAR!  How can she get a pass on this.  The question ought to be should justice be served in ragards to the present administrations mistakes in taking us to war?  Oh yea, she doesn't think the war was a mistake - just mismanaged.  Guess there was no real crime then.

by gb1437a 2007-06-19 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, gotcha question,

too many dems want him out. I'd note that Obama's GC wanted him out too.

by Rt hon McAdder esq KBE 2007-06-19 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: it's certainly not the most germane

I see you answered this early in the day. So you may not see this.

I think this analysis , well I am having trouble being civil.

The audience was right and you and Chris Matthews are soooooo very wrong.  It was sleazy of him and it's sleazy of you.  

Your inferences are sleazy and smack of the oppo research shop at the RNC.

by debcoop 2007-06-19 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

>>>>That is a bullshit question, that is like, "what do you think of Paris Hilton spending time in jail?"  

That's not true! There's no evidence of any candidates associated with Paris Hilton - but as TarHeel says - Hillary is connected to Libby's crowd - posted here many times in the past.

by annefrank 2007-06-19 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

The bottomline, people don't care!!!  I have talked about this and Alberto Gonzales, to most non-political junkies.  They are like Scooter who?  Gonzales, what?  For real.  I want questions that "everyday americans are dealing with asked", period.  

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 07:54AM | 0 recs

And not just any agent: An NOC (i.e., someone so under cover that if captured she would have been sacrificed) whose job it was to keep tabs on whether Iran was acquiring nuclear capabilities.

If people don't care about that, it's OUR failing and they need to be made to care. The question is not "bullshit" it's a no-brainer. Scooter lied to the grand jury to hide Cheney's role in outing Plame. There is NO DOUBT that he should be behind bars already. Anyone who cannot answer that question is too ethically challenged to be running for President!

by Jim in Chicago 2007-06-19 08:48AM | 0 recs

I agree with you.  But the public, outside of political junkies and DC, don't give a shit.  Yes, they may have heard of it, but none of my non-political junkie friends were following this.  Or Gonzo Gate, etc.  The one thing they were following was "FOLEYGATE", why?  Sex, they sure in the hell can understand THAT.  Is this terrible, you betcha'.  This public is so dumb downed by 30 second clips, and 5 minute Paris Hilton info, it is quite sad.

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 09:57AM | 0 recs
Then WE need to change the discourse

That is what Al Gore's new book (and I hope his coming Presidential campaign!) is all about.

by Jim in Chicago 2007-06-19 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,
Exactly! Obama is training his supporters to follow the media and make decisions about candidates' character based on surface info and superficiality - not their associates.
IOW - keep concentrating on "the movement" - and forget Rezko.
by annefrank 2007-06-19 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

You read absolutely ridiculously.  

Obama is training his supporters to follow the media and make decisions about candidates' character based on surface info and superficiality - not their associates.

Are you kidding me?  LOL!!!

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

You don't know about Plame?  is this becasue Obama's GC wants libby released?

by Rt hon McAdder esq KBE 2007-06-19 02:31PM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

She knows a guy that knows a guy...

What is this, Six Degrees of Scooter Libby? It's Washington of course does she know people who know Libby.

But To think everything those people do is somehow ultimately decided by grand puppet master Hillary is beyond the reasonable and close to tinfoil hat country.

As Carville said, they're big boys, they don't run home to mother any more to ask permission what to say.

by Ernst 2007-06-19 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: That is a bullshit question,

Agreed. And this was an AFSCME union event where, it seemed to me from the video, they had more pressing concerns than Scooter Libby.

by bowiegeek 2007-06-20 01:33AM | 0 recs
Re: She SHOULD take a pass on

It tells us what the candidates tolerance for misconduct is. I certainly do not want a repeat of the Marc Rich pardons. So the Libby question is relevant. I wish they asked whether Gonzales should be fired ASAP.

by Pravin 2007-06-19 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: She SHOULD take a pass on

How would you use your powers of pardon?

What would be your standard when judging if senior cabinet people should be dismissed?

You can ask those question without resorting to "gotcha!" style infotainment

by Ernst 2007-06-19 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: She SHOULD take a pass on

gOTCHA? What is so tricky about such a question?

by Pravin 2007-06-19 11:34AM | 0 recs
now I know why

carville chimed in for Libby.

Libby was Marc Rich's attorney

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know why

more about the subject of lying under oath for grand jury.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss Lewinsky

Any answer she could give would open a world of pain for her.

by Ernst 2007-06-19 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know why

Yeah I read about the Marc Rich - Libby connection sometime last year. It's a small world.

by Pravin 2007-06-19 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon at AFSCME

Gee, that is puzzling.  Why wouldn't she just say, "He did the crime, he does the time?"

I realise Libby is just a scape-goat for Rove.  But wouldn't Hillary want to see the law upheld, particularly in this instance?  I would have expected her to be tough on this lot.

Hard to see the Dark Side is.


by Shaun Appleby 2007-06-19 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon at AFSCME

Perhaps she reads HuffPo and agrees with Obama's lawyer? Or, maybe she knows better than to answer questions on pending cases without having full access to the trial's proceedings? Either way, I'm with icebergslim - who cares? what does that have to do with public employee unions, anyway?

by domma 2007-06-19 07:07AM | 0 recs
pretty simple

everyone was in love with Fitzgerald - and even the presnit said he'd fire anyone involved.

when it turns out it's a DC insider connected to influential democrats and republicans, he should do less time than Paris Hilton?

it should be pretty easy to stand for the rule of law - even a few republican candidates did.

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon at AFSCME

Great diary. Exactly why I support Edwards so strongly. He alone of the three has the guts to say what he really feels regardless of the consequences. We need that!!

by RDemocrat 2007-06-19 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon at AFSCME

Third place is an awfully safe place to voice one's opinions and ignore consequences.

by LandStander 2007-06-19 09:01AM | 0 recs
so is second

if it's 10-15 points behind Hillary :)

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon at AFSCME
What was the question and what was her answer?
by markjay 2007-06-19 08:56AM | 0 recs
she refused to answer it

it's unclear -- whether she was asked if she'd pardon him or if she'd "fire" him .

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: she refused to answer it
It's pretty difficult to evaluate without knowing what she was asked and what she said in response.
by markjay 2007-06-19 09:21AM | 0 recs

hopefully it will be replayed so we can all see it.

unfortunately, he did not ask any other candidates about it.

it was a subtle dig at Carville and Marc Rich

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: true
I saw the video. Chris Matthews phrased the question a couple of different ways, and, yes, she dodged it. Interestingly, the crowd loved her for doing so, and people started shouting out at Chris Matthews for pressing the question. Then Matthews asking questions that were more directly related to the labor movement and she pleased the crowds with detailed and sharp responses. You can see the video of her and other candidates here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
by markjay 2007-06-19 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: true

Mobbed?  Astro Mob?

by Rt hon McAdder esq KBE 2007-06-19 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Why are you so thoroughly convinced that Obama will "cave"? Care to offer some convincing evidence? The Hillary/Punjab incident is a weak point (and a ridiculously minor incident, at that). What about when he blacklisted Fox journalists following the Madrassa story? That was certainly a more profile incident, and he did not cave.

by LandStander 2007-06-19 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Obama is from CHICAGO.  Chicago is a divisive, corrupt (somewhat, depending how you look at it), DEMOCRATIC city.  If you can not hold it down here, you can not do anything, anywhere.  Next, why attack now?  What happened with the Clinton memo was DUMB.  Period.  Whoever put that out there, FIRED.  Communications Director/PR, REPLACED.  Campaign Manager, ON NOTICE.  Expect some major shake ups in this campaign.  You can not run an effective campaign, when all team players are not on the same page and you have rogue employees.  You can not.  And finally, I don't see ANY ONE OF OUR CANDIDATES caving into the Republicans.  If it is ONE thing we learned, hard, is that you do not sit on an attack and not respond immediately.  That will not happen in 2008.

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 09:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

I completely agree, but it does not seem as though Obama is replacing people. They keep having tiny gaffes: the Lincoln Bedroom remarks, using official Senate resources for campaign purposes, fundraising from state lobbyists and federal lobbyists' families, and this most recent memo flap. I would love to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, but it keeps happening.

by domma 2007-06-19 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon
Also - Obama's warhawk advisor writing letter defending Libby.  And another advisor writes op-eds with the CO-FOUNDER OF PNAC!
You won't find these DC-insider associated Neocons on the staff of a Progressive candidate.
by annefrank 2007-06-19 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Look, we can go the Lincoln Bedroom route on all former and current presidents.  Ask to look at the guest book and see how many "big time donors, vs. us (the rest of america) are guests there".  Senate monies can be transferred over to your presidential campaign, Hillary had 10M in her coffers, transferred last I read.  Lobbyists?  I don't care about that.  He is not taking PAC monies.  Now we have to scrutinize because a wife or husband may contribute?  This is a presidential campaign, monies need to be raised, that is a fact.  If this was public financed elections, this or most of this would not be an issue.  All campaigns make missteps.  Edwards, "haircut", Clinton "Iowa memo, don't campaign there", and now Obama.

Moving forward, and Obama has taken heat and rightly, so, look for this to cease.

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

How do you know he is not replacing people?  Are you on his staff?  Most campaigns do not announce this, and expect him to shake things up between now and Q2.  And people keep ramping and repeating the same old story.  

by icebergslim 2007-06-19 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

I don't know if anyone has been let go - do you know that they have? Regardless, snafu after snafu after snafu leads one to believe things aren't changing much internally. Also, I disagree that campaigns do not announce this: if Obama decided to let someone go because of this memo, he should be public about it to let the Indian-American community know he takes it seriously.

by domma 2007-06-19 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Err, "using official Senate resources for campaign purposes"?

by Adam B 2007-06-19 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

by domma 2007-06-19 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Sorry about that.

Senate rules and federal law forbid the use of official equipment--such as faxes and phone lines--to conduct campaign business, which was what Buford was doing last Thursday when she faxed Obama's political "call list" to the senator's personal aide at a Columbia, S.C., hotel. "These are the call sheets for tomorrow's call time," she wrote on the official cover page, emblazoned with the seal of the U.S. Senate.

The transmission was an isolated mistake, Gibbs told NEWSWEEK. "It should not have happened, and we will make sure that it will not happen again."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18366824/sit %20e/newsweek

I assume it has not happened again, which is good, but other minor issues arise from that campaign.

by domma 2007-06-19 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

Fired for that? I can see a reprimand. I thought it was a little bit of election fun gone over board--into the xenophobic realm but not quite enough for a ruined career.

by Rt hon McAdder esq KBE 2007-06-19 02:29PM | 0 recs
This is why Dems may lose

This question is a softball to use to tie all GOP to the corruption that is the Bush administration, and to pin them into answering questions about whether they believe in the rule of law or not. This is easy differentiation between Democrats and Republicans.

Use Libby to ask do you believe anyone is above the law? Should a person, convicted of obstruction of justice and lying under oath go unpunished? It's a simple question, and shows core differences between Republicans and Democrats.

But our candidates refuse to get on this horse and ride. This is why we appear weak. I'm fed up with the "my good friend" speak. Start calling these people out, especially when they have been convicted in a court of law!

by michael in chicago 2007-06-19 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon

I don't see anyone can look at the response to Paris Hilton's 4 days in jail and think no one will care if Libby gets a pardon.

by Doug Dilg 2007-06-19 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon: Libby wa

imho, if i were bush i would pardon him. i will be surprised if bush lets him go to jail. he lied to protect vp.  

by aiko 2007-06-19 12:56PM | 0 recs
Shut up

Hillary leads in poll X, and in poll Y. Democrats like her. She will win the primaries. Look at poll Z. So shut up loser.


by Populism2008 2007-06-19 02:37PM | 0 recs
but don't look

@ poll Q which shows her negatitves at 48% or poll R that states 47% o likely voters will never vote for her

by TarHeel 2007-06-19 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Takes a Pass on Libby Pardon:

Wow, two diaries about Hillary, one would think she was your  candidate.  What did I learn about Edwards today: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shea rer/thanks-for-the-lip-servic_b_52872.ht ml

by Kingstongirl 2007-06-19 04:34PM | 0 recs


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