Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

We're coming down to the wire now. If Hillary is going to take this thing to the convention, that decision will be made within the next week or two. It's my personal opinion that a floor fight would mean certain defeat for our nominee in November, and I don't want that. I realize, however, that many of you do want her to take it to Denver, and I respect your dedication. Whatever happens, it will happen soon. I believe the super delegates will encourage her to step down, and I believe she'll exit the race gracefully for the sake of the Party and the country.

But no matter what decision she makes, remember why we support her.  We have dozens of reasons. We support her because we believe her policy positions are superior, we support her because we admire her, we support her because we know she'll fight for us. We support her because we believe she would make the better general election candidate and the better president. Some of us came to her after other candidates left the race, some of us have supported her all along. We have many different reasons, but we've all stood with her and believed in her.

If you've stopped by DailyKos recently, you'll know that many of them are curious about what will happen to MyDD if Hillary concedes. They wonder what Jerome will do, and they wonder what we will do. Some of them will be coming over here to see the "inevitable" train wreck. A few of them want to see silly hysterics and irrational fits. They want to see a show.

Well, don't give them one.

If they come here to gloat and goad us, don't react. Don't give them the satisfaction of watching you lash out. Stand up for Hillary, defend her the way we always have, but do it in an admirable way. If they taunt you, don't take the bait. Don't scream, don't type in all caps, don't rail against Obama, the Party, the supers, or the Fates. If they come to mock us, brush their insults aside. Just remind them that they're not helping their candidate - they harm only themselves. If you see other Clinton supporters behaving poorly, call them out. Either sternly tell them to get their acts together, or gently attempt to calm them down. We must police our own, because we want to ensure that Hillary receives the best representation possible. She deserves no less.

Remember, we believe we support the superior candidate. We are more than the faceless statistics the pundits cite from the exit polls. We are every shade of white, black, and brown. We are young and old, men and women, educated and uneducated. We are heterosexual, we are members of the GLBT community. We hail from different states and different countries, we come from different faiths or no faith at all. We are wealthy, we are impoverished, we are the middle class. We are conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats, Independents, liberals, and progressives. We frequently agree, yet often disagree. We are of many stripes. But we all have one thing in common:

We are Clintonistas.

And we aren't ashamed. We have always been proud, and we have never regretted our decision to support our chosen candidate. We know we chose wisely. Hillary has made us proud of her, and it's high time we return the favor -- it's time to make her proud of us. If we go down, we must do so with grace and dignity. If we fight on, we'll do that with dignity also. We know she'll do the right thing, and we'll follow her lead. Don't let anyone pull you down into the mud with them. Represent Hillary the way she wants us to represent her - with passion and class and decorum. Whatever happens, nothing can dampen our pride, because we know our decision to support her was the right decision.

We must have faith in her, trust her, and respect her wishes.

But above all, we must conduct ourselves with honor, and hold our heads high.

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, dailykos, Democrats, Hillary Clinton, MyDD (all tags)

Comments

204 Comments

Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Great diary. I hope its heeded by some of the more extreme elements around here.

by authority song 2008-06-01 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

''But above all, we must conduct ourselves with honor, and hold our heads high.''

You should have told that to those folks who did your candidate no favors yesterday in D.C.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 10:42AM | 0 recs
Lay off

do you know the author's history here, if so than you know that comment was out of line, if you don't know it go and read their diaries...

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

Best you direct that in the other direction. I've read some of the comments, you need to step the fuck off.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 10:47AM | 0 recs
time to put up the big tent

You're barking up the wrong tree.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-06-01 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

LtWorf, student guy is a clear headed guy.  Your comment was out of line.

I thought I would let you know why I am TR you.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

Well he's been more clear headed than you've been in some of your past comments.  And I couldn't give a shit that you TR'd me.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

the past is the past.  I have moved on.  Obviously, you haven't.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Hilarious

After bitching about Obama singing Kumbaya, you want to sing...Kumbaya... Oh, the irony.

I guess the acceptance stage has kicked in.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Hilarious

when did I bitch about Kumbaya?  Really?

you do a great disservice to the candidate you support.  Thankfully, the majority of Obama supporters ARE NOT like you.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Hilarious

Let's just leave him alone if he's in a bad mood, CC.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:07AM | 0 recs
That was ME bitching about Kumbaya

and I support Obama.

Letitgo for chrissakes!

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Hilarious

Then let's not ruin it!  If you're still that angry, please go run around the block or something. I completely understand where you're coming from, but let's give it a good effort to put it behind us.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:06AM | 0 recs
Once again lay off

in the past cole was an ardent Clinton supporter (I won't use Clintonisa as I am not one therefore it feels funny to use it).  cole has seen that policy is more important than personality.  Why continue to antagonize?

If you wish to do that there are far more valid targets (like engels [laughs as I am pretty sure they are a troll) who are trying to make this about personality and not issues.

I am not going to TR but I advise you to tone down your statements if you want to do Obama any good here, as there are many people like zcflint, VAAlex, sricki, cole, R* (I still can't get his ID right but he is a marine who wrote a very nice piece last night that is probably still on the rec list) jarhead, Angry Mouse and many more Clinton supporters who are not "supporters" and who do their candidate proud.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

Tone down?

Student Guy, I'm free to state my opinions as I see fit.  If you want to HR or TR me into oblivion, I won't worry about it.

No venom was directed at Sricki, but I did make an valid observation. People, including yourself, interpreted them the way they wanted.

In short, quit looking for something that isn't there. I'm a level headed guy, but if I'm pushed, I push back 10 times harder.  It's the ONLY way I've achieved what I have.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

I'm pretty sure the anger was directed at your comment to "step the fuck off."

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-01 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

I told him to "step the fuck off" because he read into my comments what he wanted.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

You sound like kind of dick, for what it's worth.

by jdusek 2008-06-01 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

Well, gee, what's that make you then?

Oh wait, self-igniting flaming asshole sounds just about right.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 04:41PM | 0 recs
Ah, the downside of free speech

Can people around here grow up just a bit?

by activatedbybush 2008-06-01 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the downside of free speech

Oh, I agree, but I'm not the one who started hurling names.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the downside of free speech

This dude DOES sound like a dick.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-01 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the downside of free speech

You know what Spaceman, I've rec'd your diaries and comments and politically we agree, yet you want to troll rate me for expressing my opinion?

The handle fits you then, my friend.  Spaceman Spiff - from Calvin & Hobbes.  All I need to do is recall how old Calvin was. 'Nuff said.

by LtWorf 2008-06-02 03:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the downside of free speech

You had me until the unwarranted and deeply painful attack on Calvin and Hobbes.  Just for that, I'm changing the rules and troll-ratings are now a good thing.  Plus, if you want to write a diary, you must first cut and paste something from Noquarter, Hillaryis44, AND DailyKos.  Then you have to write a sonnet (Petrarchan, not Shakespearean), run a mile, and write something genuinely nice about Gigli.  Otherwise, I win!

:-)

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-02 04:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the downside of free speech

I love Calvin & Hobbes, but I often recall just how young and immature he was.  Fun, but all the same.

As for Gigli, being a former movie critic, I will find it difficult to EVER right anything nice about that piece of drivel.

by LtWorf 2008-06-02 04:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Once again lay off

I'm more of a prick than an ass, but you still sound like kind of a dick.

Look, if you're upset about the way some Clinton supporters conducted themselves yesterday, telling people to "step the fuck off" and that you don't "give a shit" what they think is probably not the best way to make your point.

Besides, people like sricki, student guy and cole don't represent the kind of hyper-partisan behavior that you're speaking out against, and I think they are deserving of a bit more respect.

At least that's this prick's opinion.

by jdusek 2008-06-01 06:08PM | 0 recs
Look at this diary

here the author was willing to bring this up:
http://sricki.mydd.com/story/2008/5/31/1 41051/203

and the stupid archiving process here makes it so I can't find it but back in March the diarist wrote a piece that made the rec list and got the author some 200 mojos and not a single TR.  You are the one who needs to step down.  I am going to add my TR to cole's because you deserve it, I try to keep my get my fellow Obama supporters to do their candidate proud if that means I call out the ignoramuses (who are trolling; or the overzealous ones and tell them to tone it down) then I am glad to do it.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 10:56AM | 0 recs
Aw, I heart Student Guy.

Thanks for defending me. ;)

by sricki 2008-06-01 11:05AM | 0 recs
I told you a

great while ago that I'd repay the favor (you defended me when I became a snark bomb), this guy gave me the chance to do so.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 11:11AM | 0 recs
Wonderful diary sricki

I can't thank you enough. Much appreciated.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-01 11:17AM | 0 recs
Great Diary Sricki

The only thing I would add is that there may well also be some Kosnicks (and the like) who may come seeking resolution, common ground, and healing with mydd-ers. (And a good number of those were devoted Edwards folk before they were Obama folk).

We all could use some friendship and camaraderie. All I would add is a suggestion that if the gestures of "unity" or friendship are coming too early or insistently for some Clintonistas, instead of telling them to piss off, to politely ask the well-meaners to back off until more grieving and reconoitering can be done.

Again, really nice diary.

Down with McSame!

by rhetoricus 2008-06-01 01:16PM | 0 recs
Absolutely,

I think the people who come seeking unity should be embraced, but if some Clinton supporters aren't quite ready, they should be open, honest, and polite about it.

But we need to come together as soon as possible.

by sricki 2008-06-01 01:20PM | 0 recs
Very wise words, sricki. You have been a

voice of calm and reason around here and many of us are grateful. I didn't always see eye-to-eye with you, but I always knew that our paths would converge more closely, one way or the other.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-06-01 01:45PM | 0 recs
Thanks, you've always been a great

advocate for Hillary. We all disagree sometimes, but in the end, (almost) everyone will come together. Really enjoyed your diary last night, by the way.

by sricki 2008-06-01 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

Sigh.  I think it's time to give each other the benefit of the doubt on this one, guy.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:02AM | 0 recs
No doubts...commenter's a troll...

...in every sense of the word.

by bobswern 2008-06-01 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Lay off

as a strong obama supporter, let me clue you in on something: you're WAY out of line.  Get over it.

by thereisnospoon 2008-06-01 03:30PM | 0 recs
Student Guy, everyone, don't let

LtWorf et al drag you into the gutter with them. Let's get some practice on not feeding the trolls... ;-)

I have a very nice recipe for lutefisk if anyone is interested. lol

by Swedie 2008-06-01 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I believe srickie has done that numerous times in comments.  Neither Clinton nor Obama supporters are responsible for the screeds of a few.  This diarist has been consistently a good representative for her candidate and the party.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 10:45AM | 0 recs
Thank you for stepping up

to be a perfect example of the sort of sniping and goading Clinton supporters can expect over the next couple of weeks. It's much appreciated.

by sricki 2008-06-01 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

That wasn't sniping.  THAT was an honest observation.

THAT is how deep the wounds are when you hear Clinton supporters spouting words like "inadequate black man."  Those words condemned ALL black men.

I appreciate the support of your candidate and to the 95 percent of Clinton supporters who back her in an honorable way, god bless you.

To that other five percent who spew the hate, the venom, I have no tolerance for you.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

It's less than 5%, I like to hope.  I don't know if you saw the videos of some of the crazier people who were there (really pissed me off, too), but they in no way represent the vast vast majority of Clinton's supporters, especially not the majority of those on this site, nor do they represent Hillary Clinton.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

I hope (and think) it's way less than 5%.  5% would be almost 1 million people.  I would like to think there are not 1 million people who will vote McCain instead of Obama solely because they are upset that Hillary did not win.  

[There will be a lot who vote McCain instead of Obama because they are moderates, centrists, or slightly conservative.  No problems there with me.]

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-01 01:09PM | 0 recs
The best way to make your point

is by setting an example. You have spewed your hate and venom all over this otherwise beautiful diary. It appears to me you have become what you hate. Think about it.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-01 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The best way to make your point

From you, this is the HEIGHT of HYPOCRISY.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 11:14AM | 0 recs
oh, ok...

Far be it from me.. carry on (but please do it somewhere else, thanks).

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-01 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: oh, ok...

Again, hypocrisy much?

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 12:53PM | 0 recs
LtWorf, sricki, and studentguy are ALL right

i appreciate greatly the attempts at peacemaking by sricki and studentguy, and am going to try to follow their lead.

but this is a perfectly reasonable sentiment by LtWorf:
" ...THAT is how deep the wounds are when you hear Clinton supporters spouting words like "inadequate black man."  Those words condemned ALL black men.

I appreciate the support of your candidate and to the 95 percent of Clinton supporters who back her in an honorable way, god bless you.

To that other five percent who spew the hate, the venom, I have no tolerance for you."

the Clinton campaign has created ALOT of hard feelings, which they have not only not apologized for, they have expressed indignation that they would even be questioned on what many believe was the racist nature of the campaign.
but most importantly, THEY ARE STILL creating hard feelings. senior officials of the campaign spent all day yesterday LYING STRAIGHT TO OUR FACES, by claiming the UNCONTESTED Fla and Michigan primaries were a fair.

i fear that until Clinton stops her divisive and dishonest campaign tactics, and apologizes for offense caused by racially-insensitive remarks, many Obama supporters will rightly be suspicious of offers of peace. if the Clinton campaign acted like sricki, this party could start healing, but so far, i personally have seen no sign of that from the top levels of the campaign. Mr. Ickes in particular has set both his candidate and efforts at healing back tremendously.    

by catchaz 2008-06-01 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: LtWorf, sricki, and studentguy are ALL right

I agree.  I also hope that you would agree to Hillary being called entitled white woman also condemns ALL white women.  I believe you do, as I saw your stellar diary on sexism in MSM the other day.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 11:35AM | 0 recs
i do agree

and thanks for the kind words.

by catchaz 2008-06-01 11:46AM | 0 recs
I cosign that statement!

what the good Father said was ... technically accurate but extraordinarily offensive. He apologized, and rightly so.

who the HELL forgot to tell him the cameras were rolling?

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

You are beyond out of line.  sricki is a fantastic diarist and commenter who treats ALL with respect, including the candidates.  If you are a fellow Obama supporter, then you give me great shame.

by The Distillery 2008-06-01 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

Do you think I give a damned what some other anonymous guy on a computer god knows where thinks about me?

Think again.

Sorry, Mr. Distillery, I'm not Alegre, I actually believe what I write and if you can't handle it for what it was, an honest observation, I suggest you take a visit to Hillaryland. Though you may not be welcomed, you'd be in like company.

by LtWorf 2008-06-03 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you for stepping up

Thanks for the diary, sricki.  Tipped and rec'd.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

and vote for the only candidate who is qualified to be president

by awayer 2008-06-01 11:57AM | 0 recs
I think you mean the only REMAINING candidate

by activatedbybush 2008-06-01 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Thank you for attempting to counter the dignity of a really great diary.  

by BPK80 2008-06-01 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

"But above all, we must conduct ourselves with honor,"

That would certainly be a pleasant change :)

by GeeMan 2008-06-01 01:14PM | 0 recs
I'm glad they were there

To speak for my candidate and point of view.  Regardless of the fig leaf the committee tried to put on MI, Clinton has likely won the popular vote (pending SD and MT).  There are no fig leaves to give Obama a clean victory.  There are no clean victories possible on either side in this race.

But yet, there has to be A victory.  And that victory belongs to Senator Obama, winner of the most pledged delegates and raiser of the most money.  

Those of us who preferred Senator Clinton need to accept this reality, however grudgingly and with however little enthusiasm, and move on to November with the party in mind.

by activatedbybush 2008-06-01 05:11PM | 0 recs
Obama won the popular vote.

Compromises on delegate seating don't validate sham elections.

Obama won states, votes, and delegates (elected and super).  Not by much, but he won them.  Only the last measure matters, of course, but this silly meme about the popular vote is annoying.

Hillary can go back to blaming the media and the primary process now.

by corph 2008-06-02 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!
As an Obama supporter, as a reader and poster both here and at DKos, I have to say that (IMO) this comment was out of line, and your subsequent bursts of offensive language and name calling were way out of line.

Looking at your body of posts here, I see that you are usually vituperative, frequently inflammatory, and all too frequently offensive.

You also sometimes attempt to defend your language on the basis of (1) free speech, (2) "he started it first", or (3) [redacted] off (or the moral equivalent thereof).

Free speech does not apply. Blogs are private property (just ask kos - he will agree). Free speech keeps you from from being censored by the Government, not individuals limiting your speech on/in their property.

"He started it first" - this is a child's or a government's argument, not a justification.

*sigh*

Sometimes I wonder why I try to post like this. You're likely to just tell me to [redacted] off anyway. Yet I must try.

by Vancouverite 2008-06-01 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Links are your friend Canuck.

by LtWorf 2008-06-03 09:10AM | 0 recs
Wrong country
Try again.
by Vancouverite 2008-06-04 10:20PM | 0 recs
Not yet ready to concede.

It ain't over 'til the balloons drop in Denver.

by magnetics 2008-06-01 09:01PM | 0 recs
Hey sricki

This is off topic but check this out:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/1/45949 /17854
(tis about the Searching for Johnny Mac project I think you'll like it)

Also good diary. I am reccing it because I can; you do your more good than a lot of other people here.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 10:43AM | 0 recs
argh

I left out the word candidate,

You do your candidate more good than a lot of people here.

That is how the last statement should go.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Hey sricki

That diary needs to get more recs so we can beat John McCain in the fall.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:57AM | 0 recs
It's no biggie

I'll be redoing the experiment tonight around 9 CST.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Excellent diary and 99% of Clinton Supporters have every reason to hold their heads high.  I will admit, a couple of months ago, I would have been one to come to this site to watch the train wreck -- not any more.  I signed up here during the Lamont campaign and still see many progressive voices here.  I also see Clinton Supporters who are drowning out the shrinking and small element of nastiness.

I wish your candidate good luck today and the remaining two primaries.  And I have nothing but the highest regard for Clinton supporters who have fought a long, hard battle and showcased the very best of Clinton's policies.  Thank you.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I agree.  If nothing else, this long primary season has shown the nation and the world that Democrats are in a fighting mood.  Once Obama is officially our presumptive nominee (just like McCain, and not to become official until the roll call in Denver), most of us will take the fight directly to the Republicans.  They have every reason to be shaking in their jackboots!

I've been hanging around here and Daily Kos since 2002.  I starting spending more time here a few weeks ago, not to gloat, but rather to gauge the pulse here and try to engage in honest, reasonable arguments.  There's nothing wrong with a hearty debate about issues or candidates.  Very shortly, if reports are to be believed, we will have a presumptive nominee, and I hope we can all work together to fight for a Democrat in the White House once again.

by deminva 2008-06-01 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!
Seconded. Well said.
by Vancouverite 2008-06-01 07:12PM | 0 recs
I came here because I heard the place Stunk

of racism.

I'm glad to see that's been vacuumed up.

Seriously, y'all are a hell of a lot more mature than I expected.

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Thank you from an unashamed Clinton supporter that is proud of all that she's accomplished. Let's make her proud by continuing to fight for universal health care.

by LakersFan 2008-06-01 10:44AM | 0 recs
despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

I think quite a few of us Obama supporters would gladly join you in that fight.

I hope that Clinton will be a leader in that endeavor, whether as VP, Secretary of HHS, or as Senate Majority Leader.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-06-01 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

I hope so, because we're not giving this fight up -- it's just too important for us as individuals and as a nation. If we can't advocate for our candidate, we will put our energy into advocating for our issues and put pressure on the party and nominee to vigorously represent our interests.

by LakersFan 2008-06-01 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

Single payer, anyone?  I'm pretty disappointed that neither of them seem to be talking much about this, but that probably isn't a reason to stay home or vote republican, is it? ;)

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

Universal health coverage can be achieve more than one way. Single-payer would be nice, but it's not going to happen. Let's just get everyone covered. Clinton and Edwards plans both accomplish that goal in a manner that is politically feasible. At this point, who or how we may for it is secondary concern. The "universal" part is the goal we all need to word towards.

by LakersFan 2008-06-01 11:21AM | 0 recs
It isn't for me.

... getting the best quality health care is a matter of life and death for me.

Pennypinching insurance companies are likely to send my husband to an early grave.

Stupid "overprescribed" "medically unneccessary" medicine.

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: It isn't for me.

I'm in the same boat as you. But if the choice is between universal health coverage with private insurers, or what we have now, I will take Universal coverage every time.

by LakersFan 2008-06-02 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

Universal Health insurance is the enemy when insurance is for profit.  I think people are confusing Universal Insurance for Universal Health Care.  Alot of people cannot afford Health Care that have insurance. Going bankrupt and losing everything you own with insurance is no better than being in the same situation without insurance, in some ways with insurance its worse.

by Tumult 2008-06-02 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

For-profit UHC does not have to be the enemy if we have strong regulation. They do it in other countries with success.

Believe me, I know that having health insurance does not mean you can afford health care. I've got great insurance and health care bills I cannot afford to pay. One of the most attractive things about Clinton's plan is that it would cap the amount a person would have to pay for health care to 5-10% of income.

by LakersFan 2008-06-02 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

Agreed.  It's one of the few policies of Obama's that I don't agree with.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-01 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: despite what is said, we know he isn't perfect

Yes, of course Hillary should be placed in an underling position..just seems so odd that the that she would have to report to the less qualified male. Buckle up.

by gorgias 2008-06-01 02:26PM | 0 recs
2 more days of this?

You can take your thinly veiled hint of sexism, drizzle some chocolate sauce on top of it and chow down.

I would have been just as thrilled to have the first woman president as I am over the prospect of having the first African-American president, but that's not the way the campaign worked out, is it?

If Obama was in the same position right now, I'd be hoping that he would either take a prominent role in a Clinton administration if that was what he wanted or return to the Senate.

The only thing to buckle up for is the purge of soured McCainocrats and Republican Trolls that should occur here after Clinton concedes.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-06-01 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

We are Clintonistas!!

great diary.

rec'd

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: For the record

I have little problem with you defending your candidate in a honorable way.  I

I encourage it.  It's welcomed.

But after seeing the way her supporters behaved in D.C. and the continued rantings and ravings of a certain few here, it's difficult to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

Gloat? No.  No gloating.  Many of us are just plain fatigued and want this done.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: For the record

I discount those people yesterday and the ones here who write screed after screed -- just as I discount Obama supporters who are fundamentally negative.  These people have absolutely no idea what it means to support a candidate -- they support some issue that has to do with their little world view.  Personally -- outside the toobz, I have numerous friends and acquaintances who support Sen. Clinton -- and they make me proud to be a Democrat.  The shrill-seekers are not Democrats, they are bitter people with a personal agenda which has nothing to do with the Democratic Party or Progressive ideas.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: For the record

If you don't want us to judge the Obama supporters based on the actions of the few, you have to do the same in return.  

I thought the people at yesterday's meeting were emotionally charged but not out of line.  There was no property damage, no threats of violence, no arrests made.  If what happened yesterday is enough to get anyone worked up then someone has pretty thin skin.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-01 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: For the record

I get worked up when anyone walks down Bigotry Avenue.

Didn't see the "inadequate black man" comment.  No, PLENTY crossed the line in and out of the meeting.

by LtWorf 2008-06-01 12:59PM | 0 recs
GOOD! Good comment! Good Dog1

Have a biskie!

(this comment is not intended to demean. merely a heartfelt statement).

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

don't worry about it, all the sock-puppets of BHO'ers will provide it for us. again

by zerosumgame 2008-06-01 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Yay, zerosum supports the democratic candidate over John McCain.  I'm so glad we not going to elect John McCain to the White House.  Hillary Clinton is so very different from John McCain, but so Barack Obama is different from John McCain as well!  Fantastic!

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-01 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Agreed, Sricki!

Although I am an Obama supporter now, I'm a die hard Al Gore and John Edwards fan (my top two choices), and I'm holding my head high for all of them.

by Virginia Liberal 2008-06-01 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Great post. Rec'd, and in all seriousness, one of the reasons I want to avoid a floor fight is because of how big of a fan I've become of Hillary. I don't want to see her long term reputation hurt because I know she has so much to offer as one of our best politicians, and I think taking that to Denver would hurt her in the long term. But we will be fine, and she'll be fabulous, as usual :)

by zcflint05 2008-06-01 11:11AM | 0 recs
I wouldn't worry about that.

I have faith that she'll end this thing gracefully.    She's not an idiot and supporters who urge her to do this aren't doing her any favors.  She's got to look ahead.  She has a long political career ahead of her still.

by lollydee 2008-06-01 02:28PM | 0 recs
thanks to sricki and studentguy for peacemaking

it is a noble effort, and one that on sricki's part unfortunately shows he is WAY ahead of the Clinton campaign and so many other Clinton supporters here who have filled the diary list with the hideous show sricki is trying to stop.

good luck sricki, i am going to TRY to act as if all Clintonistas are like you.

by catchaz 2008-06-01 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I've always been proud of Hillary, she's run an uplifting, cheerful and warm and friendly campaign. She has been treated with incredible disrespect, by the media and by Barack.  His people now admit he's ruthless, and while that can be good, it's not good when you campaign against someone who beats you in the popular vote.  Spin away, women are listening carefully and we're not happy.

We could take it to Denver without penalty if Barack would quit smearing her and suggesting she wants to destroy him. That's divisive, running for the nomination isn't divisive, speech that incites hate is divisive.  

She's gaining momentum and he's losing it. She won all demographics in PR.  

Our party give proportional delegates, without that she would have won long ago.  If the super's go for him despite their point, to select the candidate who can best win in November, we're bankrupt.  We'll do anything to lose.  

by anna shane 2008-06-01 11:41AM | 0 recs
Clinton & SOME supporters aren't be honest

well, sricki used LtWorf as an example that some Obama supporters will keep bashing Clinton, i am going to use anna shane's post as an example of the dishonest nature of far too many Clinton supporters, and of the campaign itself.

1)it is an OPEN bald-faced LIE to say Clinton is winning the popular vote. (to claim this you have to NOT count votes in 14 caucus states, and COUNT votes in UNCONTESTED primaries. outfuckingrageous.) that is not debatable, anna shane and EVERY SINGLE Clinton supporter knows it. and it is a lie that comes straight from Hillary Clinton herself. that is NOT honorable. if it continues, Clinton's career will end in ignomy.

2)it is an open embrace of thwarting the will of DEMOCRATIC voters to ask the supers to OVERTURN OBAMA'S VICTORY. if you advocate stealing the nomination from the voters, you deserve ZERO respect from voters. and, again, this is an idea that comes straight from Clinton herself.

3) the first lines about Clinton running a "uplifting, cheerful and warm and friendly campaign" are one of the most bizarre things i've ever read. i suggest you ask yourself why, if this is the case, her support among African Americans went from about 65% to about 5 to 10%? it's because almost ALL African American voters felt insulted by her.  

as long as this open dishonesty continues, and is directed from the highest levels of the campaign and from Clinton herself, the efforts of sricki and others like him are doomed to failure.

unfortunately, it seems this post from anna shane more accurately reflects the feelings of the campaign and of Clinton herself, much more than sricki's peacemaking efforts do. SO FAR. i pray that is about to change, bt it will take change from Clinton herself, right now, she is driving her supporters over a cliff.

by catchaz 2008-06-01 12:04PM | 0 recs
I'm gonna defend Hillary here.

One this that puzzles me about some of her supporters and how they 'identify' with her.  I got news for some of them; Hillary is way above all that crap.  She's a  politician and a very smart woman and she wouldn't have two words to say to a woman like that chick who called Senator Obama an inadequate black man.  She might have listened to her campaign people while she was running, but I'd bet anything that if she runs into someone spewing that hate in her name she'd take them to task.

I'd give anything to frankly, take Anna to task on some of the crap she's been spewing on here in 'support' of her campaign.

by lollydee 2008-06-01 02:33PM | 0 recs
Hillary is a very nice lady

who lost control of her campaign a while ago. this is my impression  perhaps not backed by fact.

How else does a non-racist do as much as she can to appeal to the racist vote? (and I mean, by this, merely not stating "if you're racist, I dont' want you voting for me". That is all I wanted from her. A public statement like Edwards gave).

Her backers are going beserk, in search of power that they believe they are never going to get back.

In contrast, I enjoy talking to Hillary's supporters. they're good folks.

This will probably get me trollrated, again. I'm sorry, but it is what I believe, and I know political researchers who have done work on this subject (i.e. who hillary's backers are. rest is possibly unfounded supposition)

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary is a very nice lady

I feel the same way.  I feel like Hillary isn't responsible for these racist morons going around shouting about inadequate black males.  I think they just used her as a rallying cry to cover up their feelings about Obama.  Seriously.  Because it's not cool to say I'm scared the black guy is a black panther muslim who will enslave little white girls.  Or, you know, whatever goes on in their sad little retarded brains. (The secret racists, not Hillary supporters).  That's why I'm unmerciful with the hillaryis44 folks.  Their site is very much against Obama, more so than FOR Hillary.  It's sadly oblivious to some and those who go there with good intentions are quickly turned off by the racist vibe brewing out from under.

And frankly, I'm not into wooing those people.  Fuck those people.  They were never really in our camp to begin with and if they were? I'm glad to be rid of them.

by lollydee 2008-06-02 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton &

I'm tired of this bs that you have to discount some states and make all sorts of weird counts to show HRC has the popular vote lead.  Go to realclearpolitics.com and stop with the bs.  She is ahead in the popular vote by 150,000, even counting the caucus states, and counting votes actually cast for her, i.e., MI.

by slynch 2008-06-01 04:41PM | 0 recs
It is the definition of BS

To include a state in which Obama was not on the ballot as part of the vote total.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 09:53PM | 0 recs
Re: It is the definition of BS

he voluntarily took his name off the ballot.  That's his problem, not hers.  It's hardly reasonable to ignore votes for her simply because he opted off the ballot.  The fact is, she is ahead in votes cast.

by slynch 2008-06-02 08:24AM | 0 recs
outright lies

what's worse is that you, slynch, know damn good and well it's a lie. just shameful dishonesty.

by catchaz 2008-06-02 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: outright lies

there's no lie there whatsoever.  Exactly what part is a lie?  That he took his name off the ballot? No.  That she did not?  No.  That she collected approximately 330,000 votes there?

Come on.  By any objective measure, the statement that she has had more votes is simply factual.  There is no way around it.

And, CapTim, go read the rules on ratings.  You're violating the rules.

by slynch 2008-06-02 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Anna:

Perhaps the supers are looking at things you're ignoring.  Perhaps some of them in smaller red states are looking at how well he organized in small red states.  Perhaps they see how he's currently outperforming her in large states like California and Michigan, while consistently outperforming her in large states that must remain blue, such as MN, WI, and WA.  Perhaps they're looking at his fundraising juggernaut, or his well-trained army of grassroots supporters.  Perhaps they're looking at how he stepped up with an historic speech in response to the Rev. Wright controversy, or how young voters are ready to support him in record numbers (on their way to becoming lifelong Democrats).  Perhaps they're looking at how he, alone of the three viable candidates, refused to pander on the gas tax.  Perhaps they like his ears.

Or, if you're focused solely on electability: Perhaps they agree with many of Clinton's supporters that she has been hampered by sexism, and because they're pragmatic, they don't expect this sexism to vanish in time for the general election.  I'm not saying that Clinton is unelectable because she's a woman.  Far from it.  But if you want to argue that she would have won the Democratic nomination if only people weren't sexist, it seems odd to me to argue that the same baleful force wouldn't have hurt her in the GE.

by deminva 2008-06-01 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

uplifting, cheerful, warm and friedndly?  Sheesh.  George Orwell rolls in his grave.

by thereisnospoon 2008-06-01 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I have to laugh at Anderson Cooper - should the voters in PR be counted in the popular vote totals?  Another person had to correct him to tell him that PR's are AMERICAN citizens.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

sorry wrong thread.  too many tabs open

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

hahaa. I told just saw that. He sounds like a dummy.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-01 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

The question, of course, isn't whether Puerto Ricans are Americans, it's whether it makes sense to count voters that can't vote in the general election in a "popular vote total" that is being used to argue strength in the general election. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but asking it doesn't make Anderson Cooper stupid.

by laird 2008-06-01 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

They are citizens, but they don't get to vote in the general.  And while they are citizens, more than half want to stay in the state of limbo their governmental status is, and a good percentage (about 15% depending on the poll/election) want total independence.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-01 01:16PM | 0 recs
i think it's funny...

...that clinton wants to count the votes from Puerto Rico, a territory, for the popular vote but conveniently forgets that most caucuses, in actual states, do not report out a popular vote.

so...she includes puerto rico, but leaves out Minnesota, Kansas, Colorado, Iowa, Wyoming, Nebraska, Idaho, Washington, Maine, etc.

by d 2008-06-02 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

nice.

I will continue to support Sen. Clinton, even passed the primaries. And I know some people get carried away and junk, but I seriously try to base everything I argue in logic.

Its not easy to be a Clinton supporter at this point, but its what we choose to do.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-01 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Thank you sricki! Undoubtedly there will be many who will seek to fan the flames of division but at this point, let's try to end this on a high note.

We can be for both Clinton and Obama while acknowledging who the nominee is. This is the first time I've really invested myself in a candidate, and even though I'm really disappointed that she lost, she has gained a lot in the primaries, and I look forward to see what she will accomplish in the future.

by VAAlex 2008-06-01 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

First off, as a Obama supporter I want to congratulate Senator Clinton and her supporters on her win in Puerto Rico.   Secondly, as a Koser, I can tell you there have been numerous diaries about no attacks on Senator Clinton, a move for unity.  I look foward when democrats supporting both candidates, can get behind our nominee, and enjoy both websites.  

by realistdem 2008-06-01 12:02PM | 0 recs
Truth be told,

I still enjoy dKos. I ignore anti-Clinton diaries, and I get along just fine over there. But I'll be very glad when DailyKos and MyDD are no longer at odds.

by sricki 2008-06-01 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Sorry,  but pushing for unity with Daily Kos is pushing Unity a little too far.

by Scotch 2008-06-01 02:45PM | 0 recs
sricki.

you definitely do not blog enough - well done.  rec'd.

by canadian gal 2008-06-01 12:10PM | 0 recs
Heh, thanks.

You know, I always have all these diaries I'd like to write, but then I get so lazy. I spend a lot of time thinking about them and then never bother to type them up. Too bad I'm not more industrious, I guess. ;)

by sricki 2008-06-01 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Very nice diary. As a former Clinton supporter who turned to Obama back in January, I salute you. I will certainly not goad or gloat.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 12:21PM | 0 recs
rec'd!!

Congratulations to Hillary and her supporters on her win in PR today.

by PurpleMyst 2008-06-01 12:21PM | 0 recs
I love this

You are inspiring.  

by BPK80 2008-06-01 12:24PM | 0 recs
Thank you.

You've been a top-notch Clinton supporter.

by sricki 2008-06-01 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you.

:-)

She's an inspiration.  At this point, I would rather watch a Primary Results show rather than my favorite movie.  

by BPK80 2008-06-01 01:06PM | 0 recs
I'm sick of it personally

not that I don't want Montana to get a chance to vote, of course, but I'm sick of the fighting...

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:47AM | 0 recs
Excellent diary! Rec'd. Perfectly worded!

Yeah, Sricki, bigtime kudos today! CG's right, you should blog more often!

As for the "trolls-with-issues" upthread, I find their presence in the comments here quite ironic. Clearly, they didn't read and understand (or at least agree with) what you wrote.

That's their problem, IMHO...until they make it our problem. Then we just TR/HR 'em and blog on!

by bobswern 2008-06-01 12:35PM | 0 recs
Thanks,

I expect this diary is better received than the one I put up yesterday.

As Clinton supporters, we need to ignore the anti-Hillary trolls and take the high road, no matter how much they mess with us.

by sricki 2008-06-01 12:38PM | 0 recs
What Obama said

I am happy to report this:

"Obama announces in Mitchell, South Dakota that he telephoned Clinton Sunday to congratulate her on winning the Puerto Rico primary.

Land of Lincolner then praises Clinton to crowd outside the Corn Palace for the race she has run and her public service.

"She is going to be a great asset when we go into November to make sure we beat the Republicans. That I promise you. Whatever differences Senator Clinton and I may have, those differences pale in comparison to the other side."
http://thepage.time.com/2008/06/01/recon ciliation/

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 12:36PM | 0 recs
Yup, I'm watching his speech. n/t

by sricki 2008-06-01 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

With the greatest of respect to the diarist and some other Clinton supporters here, I ask you what you think of this diary (link below) wherein the diarist announces the efforts of a group to try to elect McCain?  They call themselves McClintons.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/1/16405 3/5248

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 12:55PM | 0 recs
Thanks for pointing it out.

I hadn't seen it yet. It's disgraceful, and all of Hillary's supporters should tell the diarist so.

by sricki 2008-06-01 01:01PM | 0 recs
I think...

That ideas like that need to be fleshed out on the merits rather than summarily dismissed as evil since they invoke the nasty McCain.  

I prefer McCain's personality to Obama's but prefer Obama's Democratic platform.  

I'm a lifelong Dem, now an undecided voter.  Perhaps at the risk of stating the obvious, Obama supporters should consider us a test group.  If you can sell the nominee to half of the party, what luck will there be selling him to the whole nation?

by BPK80 2008-06-01 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...
BPK80, (and everybody),
    I hope you stick around here, because I'd like to have an opportunity to make a case for Obama.  I won't try today, because feelings are obviously running high.
     I think that all Democrats have been in an adversarial position since - well, probably since Nixon.  Reagan, Iran-Contra, Newt, the Gulf war,  the 'Contract with America', impeachment, Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004, Iraq, and SO much Bush.  I think many have come to the conclusion that we must fight, because the other side sure will.  We have seen the results of apathy, of lies, cheating, lying, and greed.  And even though the vast majority of those things have come from Republicans and neocons, it is now a part of the political landscape.
     So this year, that we all know matters so much, we have fought for what we believe in.  Unfortunately, some people have adopted these tactics on behalf of their candidate.  And I think everyone cares a great deal.  
   I'm sorry that some people can't let go of this - on both sides.  I've not been a frequent poster on this site, but I've been lurking around, and I've seen a lot of stuff on both sides, here and other places as well.  I think all of that will change in the next few weeks, as passions recede and good sense, as well as the noble efforts of this diarist and others, take hold.
     I just watched Hillary's victory speech in PR.  She closed with the line, "we're going to fight for America, because America is worth fighting for."    In the next few weeks, I will be asking you to do that, to help me do that, to fight for America.  I will beg all of you.  On bended knee.  I am 50, and I have a 2 year old son.  I may not be around later to help him as he reaches adulthood, and I want to make sure I do everything I can to make sure he gets a fair shake.  Right now, that means electing a Democrat.  So, please, give me a chance to make a case.  It's really important.
   
by haremoor 2008-06-01 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

No doubt you have good intentions.  However, the case has been made and some of us have rejected it based on our own critical analysis.  

I applaud the diarist for his attitude.  I just don't share it. It never occurred to me to hang my head.  

p.s. If Kossacks want to see "silly hysterics and irrational fits" they need only read their own material. It's been a daily Hillary hate-fest over there for almost a year.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

Thank you.

I appreciate you communicating as a dialogue between two people and not two anonymous robots on the internet.

While when I make rules based arguments, I frame them in academic/cerebral terms, party identification is necessarily an emotional issue for me.  When I say I am "undecided" I am not threatening anyone.  Who would I be threatening?  There are no more elections left (aside from MT/SD)!  

I'm just stating how I feel.  It's real.  It's conflicted and I'm not sure right now what will happen.  I am open to considering other options than voting Democratic.  That is very distinct from having made a commitment either way.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 02:34AM | 0 recs
A few cents from an Independent

Libertarian Democrat.

McCain will not break from the current mold of the Republican part. He will not end the kleptocracy, and the winnowing of the professionals from our civil service.

I will continue to vote Democratic until I can find a better Republican party.

I believe that the best way to destroy the current alliance between the rulers (rich) and the priests (conservative christians), is by dealing them a significant defeat at the ballot box.

This is just my two cents, and I've got a dollar in change in my pocket, but I hope to help!

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: A few cents from an Independent

Mojo for "kleptocracy."  Love the neologism.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

Half the party?  The dead enders who stick with Clinton once Obama is the nom are going to be way less than half the party.  Maybe half a percent.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

Half a percent?

Goodbye, Wisconsin.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 02:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Congratulations to Hillary and her supporters on this huge win in PR.

by redwoodsummer 2008-06-01 01:19PM | 0 recs
Now please tell me how Hillary gets

the other 176 Delegates she needs.

Presuming a 40-15 delegate split in Puerto Rico Hillary will have 1,940 delegates and Obama will have 2,080. There are only 230 delegates left and Hillary needs 176 of them.

Obama needs one about one in six delegates to win and Hillary needs more than 3 out of four delegates to win.

So live it up but don't forget that the only remaining question for the Hillary campaign is when will she concede. Before the end of the primaries, before the convention, during the convention, or never because Hillary plans to start her own party?

So how is this going to end and what difference did Hillary's win mean today?

by Sam Wise Gingy 2008-06-01 01:29PM | 0 recs
I believe Obama will be the nominee,

which is only fair, since he's ahead by every metric. Now. Please tell me what relevance your comment had to my diary.

None?

Ah. Yes, that's what I thought.

by sricki 2008-06-01 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I believe Obama will be the nominee,

Some people are not interested in anything beyond rubbing salt in wounds and kicking people when they're down, spreading gasoline on fires, etc. What can you expect?

by VAAlex 2008-06-01 01:41PM | 0 recs
Perhaps they have too much free time? n/t

by sricki 2008-06-01 01:41PM | 0 recs
The noble candidacy would be none at all.

Hillary has no chance of winning. Her continued candidacy only distracts from the general election and makes party unity more distant.

The only noble thing Hillary can do is concede and the sooner the better.

by Sam Wise Gingy 2008-06-01 03:01PM | 0 recs
Yet another pointless comment which

has nothing to do with my diary. Are you lost, friend?

by sricki 2008-06-01 03:03PM | 0 recs
Please tell me what noble purpose the Clinton

campaign is achieving instead of insulting me.

Party unity is maintained when candidates who have no chance of winning drop out so the candidates who have a chance of winning can solidify the party.

If you want to the tell me that Hillary and her supporters are noble then you need to tell me that Hillary either has a reasonable chance of winning or that she has conceded.

How do you expect Hillary to the 200 more delegates she needs?

When will Hillary concede?

by Sam Wise Gingy 2008-06-01 03:26PM | 0 recs
Maybe reading comprehension isn't

your strong suit. Did you not see me say that Obama should be the nominee? I expect Hillary will drop out within the next week -- two, tops.

What I want to know is, in what way do you think you're helping your candidate right now? Because I can't see how your petty carping is benefitting Sen. Obama. He deserves better supporters. I encourage you to try to live up to the fine standard he has set.

by sricki 2008-06-01 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe reading comprehension isn't

All I have seen from the Clinton camp since Texas has been one negative attack against Obama after another. When that did not work Hillary started attacking the Democratic Party and our candidate selection process.

IMO Hillary's campaign has done far more harm than good to the Democratic party and the sooner she drops out the better.

Many of Hillary's supporters have become as anti-Democratic Party as Republicans of late and Hillary is their inspiration.

Again the only thing noble that Hillary can do is concede and the only thing noble that Hillary's supporters can do is to withdrawal their support from Hillary and unify the party.

by Sam Wise Gingy 2008-06-01 04:24PM | 0 recs
Thank you for your thoughts. n/t

by sricki 2008-06-01 04:35PM | 0 recs
Dude.

Read the diary.  : /

by lollydee 2008-06-02 05:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe reading comprehension isn't

It really isn't. Poor Samwise was the only person who never could figure out the rules to my simple game "What I Like About Your Candidate"

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/23/1302 2/0761

despite multiple attempts by me and others to explain them. Samewise appears to be one of those "special" people, who need a little extra help and understanding to function in society. It's OK Samwise, we are here for you, and we will try to explain it again if you need it.

by itsthemedia 2008-06-01 05:58PM | 0 recs
Everyone Respects a Hard Foul in Sports

but when you end a players career it's a different story.

If Obama loses the election Hillary will be blamed. Rep. Clayburg has already said that the Clintons are trying to cost Obama the election.

She will never enjoy the wide spread support in the AA community that she and Bill have earned over the decades. They have been succesfully trashed. It wasn't just a hard foul, it was a career ending, throw her to the ground foul.

I wouldn't support race-bating against a Republican let along two great Democrats like Hillary and Bill.

I could not hold my head high if I turned around and voted for Obama after what he did to those two fine public servants.

He and far too many Dem's in Washington rode her dirty.

by mmorang 2008-06-01 01:46PM | 0 recs
Unless she's leaving the Senate immediately...

... then, while there may have been hard fouls, by definition, there were no career-ending fouls.

by 0td 2008-06-01 05:07PM | 0 recs
rode... her... dirty...

is that sexist? I'm ... not sure, but I think it is.

Please back off.

She needs to learn, relearn, whatever, how to campaign to AA so that they understand that she cares about their issues, and them.

Respect is a two way street.

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:56AM | 0 recs
Sricki, you're among my heroes today

As a fellow Democrat, I've been where you are far too often in my political life. I still treasure my "Tcitizens for Tsongas" bumper sticker from '92, and I remember the heartbreaking realization that the Man from Lowell wasn't going to be our nominee for my first presidential election. And I well remember my doubts about that guy from Arkansas...and my eventual realization that he was pretty damned good, on balance, once he made it to the White House.

And Tsongas, for all his many virtues, was by no means as groundbreaking a candidate as Hillary Clinton was. I understand, and appreciate, the passions she's inspired amidst her supporters. I'm willing to overlook, forgive and forget many of the more heated expressions of that passion, and I hope her supporters will do the same where Obama supporters are concerned.

I think diaries like sricki do Senator Clinton proud. She should count herself fortunate to have such advocates among her supporters, and I look forward to one heck of a GE campaign with the help of sricki, VAAlex, lombard and others like them this summer and fall.

So let me ask you a question, sricki - as a Clinton supporter, what is it you'd like to see as the legacy of this historic campaign? I have no problem with the idea of an Obama/Clinton ticket, though I suspect her talents and passion can be put to use in a more important office than VP. What is it you and your fellow "Clintonistas" (used entirely non-disparagingly!) would like to see happen now?

I'm over here at myDD because I want to hear from people who don't agree with me 100%, all of the time. I value the dialogue this site provides when it's at its best. Let's have some!

by ipsos 2008-06-01 01:52PM | 0 recs
I supported Dean in my first

presidential election. I was terribly disappointed with Kerry at first, but I got over it. Still a Deaniac at heart, though. I'm really not sure what sort of legacy I'd like to see from Hillary's campaign. I suppose I haven't really thought about it yet. I fear the bad will be remembered more clearly than the good.

I know a lot of Clinton supporters want her as VP, but I'd rather she stayed in the Senate. I'd like to see her become Majority Leader someday.

And I'm glad you're here at MyDD! It's hard to have a decent dialogue between Clinton and Obama supporters anywhere else.

by sricki 2008-06-01 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I supported Dean in my first

And I'm glad you're here at MyDD! It's hard to have a decent dialogue between Clinton and Obama supporters anywhere else.

Thanks, sricki. I'm happy to be here. Beyond the small crowd of trolls and quickly-becoming-trolls, and of course the neverending rain of "isthissnark" comments (not you, "Is This Snark"!), there's plenty of good dialogue to be had here, and I look forward to more of it.

I do hope you and the other Clinton supporters here will give some thought to the "legacy" question. Those voices need to be heard, and should be part of our party's platform and our base going forward into November and beyond.

There's so much we can accomplish if we engage with one another as human beings, not as stereotypes. There are voices here that will never be heard over at dKos, alas - and there are a lot of wonderful human beings sharing interesting ideas and comments over at dKos, too, which is why I'm sorry to see some here tar it as nothing but a haven for "Obamabots" or whatever the code-word is this week. Take a look at the rec list over there if you don't believe me - on any day other than a particularly hot political day (today and Tuesday, for instance), most of the diaries there are about issues OTHER than Obama vs. Clinton or Obama vs. McCain.

And getting back to Senator Clinton for a moment: I agree with you on the Majority Leader idea. We haven't had a tough-as-nails Democratic Majority Leader since LBJ, and we need one right now.

by ipsos 2008-06-01 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I'm glad you see you're holding your head high. You should.  Clinton is a powerful candidate and you were a wonderful spokesperson for her.  

by thezzyzx 2008-06-01 02:23PM | 0 recs
Hillary is doing the party a HUGE favor by staying

in the race, right up to the convention. With the latest bile from Obama's bully pulpit in Chicago, it's obvious that anything can happen between now and August.

Face it, folks: with Barack Obama, you're not just waiting for the other shoe to drop. You're following a centipede.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-01 02:38PM | 0 recs
Okay... what?

I'm not 100% sure what that means, actually. But I'm thinking perhaps it's not the attitude I was hoping we'd take.

by sricki 2008-06-01 02:42PM | 0 recs
The only Democratic Prez since FDR elected

to two terms--and his wife--have been trashed now for well over a year, over the most trivial bullshit and minutiae one could imagine. During the 1990's, the Clintons showed that Democrats can not only WIN (novel concept for our party....), but can govern successfully and competently. And it might surprise you, but there are legions of us who are fond of these two people, and love them. We will always carry a part of them in our hearts. And we are livid at the way they have been treated by a bunch of know-nothings, who babble about "hope" and "change", but don't know squat about policy or governing.

As opposed to the GOP--who practically venerate their ex-Presidents--liberal Democrats cooked up garbage all primary season to tar the Clintons as racists and crooks.

So instead of nominating proven winners, we will now go back to the days of McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry. In the WORST year imaginable for Republicans, Barack Obama is at best running even with John McCain in most trial heats. Once the slime machine starts with their ads, Obama will be taken out and beaten like a red-headed stepchild; watch his negatives go through the roof. It's wrong, but we've all seen this movie before.

Do all of us centrists a favor: just don't wonder aloud come Novemeber, "how COULD we have lost AGAIN?" You've been warned over and over again. And frankly, those of us who have volunteered year in and year out at the precinct level are just tired of seeing these losers get nominated.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-01 03:01PM | 0 recs
Are you aware of the fact

that you're ranting at a fellow Clinton supporter?

by sricki 2008-06-01 03:06PM | 0 recs
So? It's not like we're some monolithic

group that share one common set of beliefs. That's something that usually happens in cults..or groups that resemble cults.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-01 03:08PM | 0 recs
But why are you ranting at me? n/t

by sricki 2008-06-01 03:10PM | 0 recs
I don't consider it a rant....but you

suggested you were hoping for a "different attitude", and I was simply explaining where mine came from. Everyone will react differently to the designation of Obama as the Democratic nominee.

While most people assume that all Clinton supporters will vote for Obama, there are people among us of good judgment and character who may vote for McCain. Frankly, I haven't made up my mind yet. McCain's opposition to this country's insane (and corrupt) ethanol policy--a giveaway to Agriculture giants which is causing worldwide famine and food riots--is just one example of an issue liberals can embrace. Frankly, both Hillary and Obama let us down on that one.

btw, I'll bet you anything that if you asked Barack why he supports the ethanol policy, he would get this befuddled look on his face...and just start mumbling. The first sentence would begin with the words, "on the one hand"....and the second sentence would start, "on the other hand"

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-01 04:31PM | 0 recs
You know, if you actually listened to

anything from the people you insult off-hand, you might learn something.

Senator Obama is very aware of the problem of grain-based ethanol.  Who isn't?

Your attribution of evil intent and stupidity to others is either insincere or ignorant, niether of which is flattering to you.  None of the people who have run for President are below 50 IQ.

To assert as you do is simply barking mad.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-01 07:51PM | 0 recs
Bottom line, how did he vote on the Ag bill?

I've found that Obama partisans just hate to get into specifics. In a conversation I had last week with two very devoted Obam-orons, I tried to get them to explain to me where he stood on NAFTA...you see, he was against it, before he went grovelling to the Canadians to assure them that he was for it. It was probably unfair to put these two people in that position, given that the Senator probably doesn't know himself where he stands. They just started babbling about how he was "brilliant", and that he knows how to bring people together. Obviously, it was a real deep conversation....

So save all your b.s.; bottom line, "Barry" voted for an Ag bill which was a huge giveaway to Monsanto and ADM (Archer Daniels Midland). Couldn't risk losing Iowa, I guess. At least McCain had the balls to oppose it, regardless of the political ramifications.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-01 09:44PM | 0 recs
Ya know, if you cannot go five words

without tossing insults in every direction then I can`t see how you expect to have any real conversations.

Conversely you show signs of having actual evolved thoughts on positions.

Make you a deal - you go one comment to me without slurring anyone and I`ll talk with you.  Otherwise there is no dialogue to be had.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-02 04:33AM | 0 recs
Fair enough.

Actually, I can't argue with anything you've said...thanks for the insight.

Not an excuse, but I saw "Father" Pfleger's rant on Friday afternoon, and thought I was going to have a stroke. And I'm a young guy!

Jon.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-02 08:05AM | 0 recs
He said the truth

It was monstrously offensive, and I believe that the good Father is better than he was shown.

Check out PastorDan's take on the whole Obama leaving his church. it's kinda cool.

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't consider it a rant....but you
We used to destroy corn because of our agriculture policy.  Ethanol is not leading to famine or food riots.  We are a huge over producer of corn.  We then turn it into corn syrup and put it in everything including hot dogs.
Or we feed it to cattle who cannot digest it without additionally being fed a number of drugs.   And it has been suggested that corn syrup is not registered by the body the same as sugar, which has led to an increase in health problems and obesity.  The problems with our agriculture policy happend a long time before ethanol.  If anything ethanol has been one of the more constructive uses of the overproduction of corn.
by Tumult 2008-06-02 10:58AM | 0 recs
Check out the commodity futures, my friend

and see what has happened to the price of corn in the last 5 months, not to mention the last year.

btw--as far as the environmental considerations go, you should be aware that for every gallon of ethanol produced, it takes 1700 gallons of water. This is a boondoggle engineered to enrich the Ag giants, and no reputable economist would contest that. Even the talking heads on CNBC and Bloomberg admit it.

You wouldn't be from Nebraska (Iowa?) by any chance, would you?

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-02 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Rec'ed. I support Hillary and I support her right to take this to the convention.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-01 02:43PM | 0 recs
Well said

I was an Edwards supporter.  When he withdrew, I found the choice between Obama and Clinton to be a tough one, as I liked many qualities in each of them.  In the end, I went for Obama.  

As an Obama supporter, let me thank you for an excellent diary.  Do hold your heads high.  When the Democratic party has several excellent candidates, they cannot all win.  Clinton should be a party leader for years to come.  

Remember too that Obama, Edwards, and Clinton agree on the vast majority of policy issues, and they disagree with McCain.  Please do not let 2008 become another 1968, 1972, or 1980, when we let the republicans win by not coming together.    

by hilltopper 2008-06-01 02:51PM | 0 recs
I had a very hard time

choosing between Clinton and Edwards, actually. I ended up going with Hillary because I thought she was more electable. I'm still immensely fond of John, though.

We'll come together this year. There's too much at stake.

by sricki 2008-06-01 02:55PM | 0 recs
Nice diary...

...sricki!!!

by hootie4170 2008-06-01 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

great diary.  I won't be gloating or goading, and I hope none of my fellow Obama supporters do, either.

Here's hoping that Clinton exits with the grace and class that will enable her to be a Democratic champion for decades to come and either take up the mantle of Ted Kennedy or move on to governorship of New York or even the Supreme Court, and that her supporers will take up the fight against John McCain.

No one really wants to see the train wreck some of us fear from the more die-hard Clinton supporters.

by thereisnospoon 2008-06-01 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Excellent diary, srick, thanks. I didn't know the people at Kos were looking at us to see what happens- I usually just skim Kos looking to see if there's any diaries up that look interesting. I would, however, love to watch Hillaryis44.org.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Wow, I just went over there and those folks have...problems. One commenter said that Clinton got 8 supers yesterday but it wasn't reported, there's praise for Republican slimemaster R. Stone, etc.

Strange folks.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Heh, you're not even seeing the start of it. Looks like, though, after they got investigated by the Secret Service, they knocked the clickfraud down some.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

This comment was real appalling --

I've been actually in pretty good mood. I long passed the period of sadness, anger etc. I just find it will be fun to help destroy bama in the months ahead.

Kennedy is another fun for me to watch. It sounds cruel, but thanks God, his big fat mouth will soon shut up for good. LOL.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Yeah, I'll probably head over there with a thing of popcorn once Clinton concedes.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 04:02PM | 0 recs
Heh, I'll definitely be joining you

in that. His44 is going to be a circus, I imagine. It'll be interesting, if nothing else.

by sricki 2008-06-01 04:39PM | 0 recs
Don't worry

We know that most Hill folks aren't like these people.  I'm think I might have to watch that site that night, though.  

by lollydee 2008-06-02 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Great diary.  Many thanks to you and to the many others like you who've shown what true class looks like.  

I have read more than a few diaries and posts here lately that confirm that we share a solid, bonding common interest (rumarhazzit, Student Guy, politicsmatters and zcflint05 come to mind, and I'm sure there are many others).  

So I want use this little post to thank all of you who, by putting aside their differences and praising our likenesses have become leaders by example.  
GROUP HUG!

by haystax calhoun 2008-06-01 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Thank you!  You know, I was a Clinton supporter for quite a few months and used to explain to lots of people why I supported her. I did switch to Obama early in 2008.

I'm glad that there are people here with a commitment to good public policy, which we can achieve with a Democratic president and Congress.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-01 04:04PM | 0 recs
Awesome diary!

They can't hurt us if we are dignified.

by psychodrew 2008-06-01 04:28PM | 0 recs
I say we keep on until the end, and

Keep that faith, keep your courage, stick together, stay strong, do not yield, stand up, WE SUPPORT CLINTON AND WE'LL NEVER SURRENDER!

by DiamondJay 2008-06-01 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I say we keep on until the end, and

I can only hope that when she asks you as a community to support Obama that your "NEVER SURRENDER" ethos transfers to the fall campaign of Barack Obama versus John McCain.

by wasder 2008-06-02 06:54AM | 0 recs
Yellow dog Democrats!

Arf!

wags tail hopefully

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 09:01AM | 0 recs
From a Clinton Detractor:

I admit that I'm a Kos kinda guy. I have found the Clinton campaign to be divisive and poorly managed, and I've said unflattering things about her in diaries and comments both here and at DKos. I admit it.

What I don't feel, however, is a sense of schedenfreude about her apparent loss. I'm glad it's just about over. I'm glad my candidate won. I'm confident that he will go on to win the general. I don't think there's any place for people to be bad winners though. Clinton may not stand for everything I want her to, and she may actually represent things that I'm against, but she's still family.

I think it's a mistake to want her out of politics, or marginalized. She's too smart and effective a Democrat to push her aside or discount her. She's more centrist than I'm comfortable with, but she's still far to the left of the monsters we're attempting to slay and as such she's my ally and I support her.

I would have voted for her if she'd been the nominee, and I would have campaigned for her like there was no tomorrow. She would have received as much money as I've already given to Obama. I would have railed against her as president if she did things I didn't like, but I still would celebrate her as my president.

The idea that people want to split Kos and MyDD because we represent different wings of the Democratic Party is shortsighted and exactly the kind of nonsense that's written in Crashing the Gates that has separated us. Progressivism is largely a left-oriented affair, but it's still a continuum rather than a static, monolithic culture. Clinton isn't a pure progressive, but she stands for progressive things. That's why we should embrace her as family.

Let's work together to make sure the argument between Clinton-types and Obama-types and Edwards-types and Kucinich-types is what matters, eliminating the Bush-types, McCain-types, and Cheney-types from our government. That's what I want. We can have internal family disputes as long as we remember that we're family.

by mikeplugh 2008-06-01 07:05PM | 0 recs
She's a damn wicked Democrat

who is extraordinarily good for her state. I may support primarying her, but in my heart of hearts, I still want her in the Senate.

by RisingTide 2008-06-02 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Lots of folks here are perfectly normal folks.

Some are simply very upset and disappointed.

The rest.  I don't honestly know.

sricki, you and many others I've enjoyed debating with (even when I get hot under the collar myself).  I look forward to continuing the Grand Discussion with you after this primary, and after the GE.  All of this is about much more than who gets elected to an office, it's about how we manage the country.

-best

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-06-01 07:57PM | 0 recs
Great diary

and you are absolutely right to be proud of Senator Clinton as everyone in this nation should be. I have nothing but pure admiration for her and believe me when i say so.

We have a whole bunch of immature human beings in our campaign and i am sure they will be acting as total jackasses and making total fools of themselves. I think what you wrote in this paragraph:

"If they come here to gloat and goad us, don't react. Don't give them the satisfaction of watching you lash out. Stand up for Hillary, defend her the way we always have, but do it in an admirable way. If they taunt you, don't take the bait. Don't scream, don't type in all caps, don't rail against Obama, the Party, the supers, or the Fates. If they come to mock us, brush their insults aside. Just remind them that they're not helping their candidate - they harm only themselves. If you see other Clinton supporters behaving poorly, call them out. Either sternly tell them to get their acts together, or gently attempt to calm them down. We must police our own, because we want to ensure that Hillary receives the best representation possible. She deserves no less"

is spot on.

Again, thanks for writing this diary. And to be honest, our win in this primary has been less then stellar. This is almost a 50.9% v. 49.1% victory. Our candidate is basically crawling to the finish line. Lately, we have been beaten over and over in several states while we outspent her by huge margins. There is nothing to really toot our horn about. I honestly and sincerely believe that Senator Clinton is an excellent and exceptional candidate who has been ill served by her campaign.  

by likelihood zero 2008-06-01 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Great diary. The democratic nominee will have a fabulous set of supporters!

by french imp 2008-06-02 12:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Excellent diary, Sricki.  You should hold your head up high.

We're all Democrats.  We will unify.

And what John Edwards said about Senator Clinton is true:  

"What she has shown ... is strength and character, and what drives her is something that every single one of us can and should appreciate," Edwards said. "She is a woman who, in my judgment, is made of steel, and she's a leader in this country not because of her husband but because of what she has done."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/e dwards.obama/

She is a leader in this country not because of her husband but because of what she has done.

by TomP 2008-06-02 05:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!
I am a very, very proud admirer and supporter of Hillary Clinton. I've said this before - she is my leader, I will support her in everything that she does. I really am very happy to be a Clinton supporter.
by optimisticBoy 2008-06-02 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

have an explination for this TR? Are you a McBlogger?

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/2/14 734/74830/1?mode=alone;showrate=1#1

by zerosumgame 2008-06-02 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

I am sorry, I will have to ignore you.

by optimisticBoy 2008-06-02 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Supporters, Hold Your Heads High!

Really good diary, as usual.  You're always a great representative for your candidate, and I really respect your level-headedness and ability to communicate with supporters of all stripes.  Hillary is lucky to have supporters like yourself.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-06-02 08:56AM | 0 recs
Why would there be a train wreck?

Great diary.  This has been a hard-fought nomination and I respect Hillary very deeply.  I preferred Obama, but only by a little and mostly for reasons entirely beyond Hillary's control.

But, why would there be a trainwreck here?  This site is dedicated to electing Democrats.  And even though it has become (so I hear, I don't look at a lot of blogs) something of a haven for Hillary supporters, why would that change things.  We are all Democrats in the end.  It may take a while for some elements to come around.  Others may never come around.  But again, I seem to be missing something.

I can see Jerome penciling a somewhat nostalgic diary about how he preferred Hillary, but it's time to move forward.  MYDD would then become what it has always been - a place to focus on organizing and significant downballot races.

by the mollusk 2008-06-02 09:47AM | 0 recs

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