Why Honesty Counts

After 20 debates, a good number one on one, and what we saw with the last debate, we all know what these debates are really for.  If a "learning" experience was the goal we wouldn't have spent half the last debate talking about such horrendous dribble.  Was there something we needed to know about Tuzla?  Flag pins?  Whether Wright was a patriot?  A Weatherman?  NO!!!!  You know it, Clinton knows it, and we all know why debates are being asked for.  This is why tacticians, and some supporters, will never be able to change minds - this is nothing more than dishonest discourse.

This late in the game, with the score being what it is, Hillary and her supporters are praying, every hour of the day, for a gaffe and a fumble.  What HRC needs is some type of implosion.  The biggest break, Wright, just didn't do it.  The Weatherman thing, just makes most people shake their head - Obama was 8 years old when Weathermen were active.  

Thus, this desire to debate under the pretext of "educating" the electorate is pure dribble.  Hillary knows it, her supporters know it, and the entire world knows it.  

I don't behoove supporters or candidates for playing hard for the gaffe or the fumble.  Yet, it really is sad when people try to hide their intentions behind "we all benefit from seeing the candidates debate issues important to the American public." That is nothing short of a lie.  It is this type of campaigning which drives people nutty.  When someone says "as far as I know" it is worthy of a snicker.

Today, it was put best by a die-hard Clinton supporter, upon observing her tactics, when he stated "At the end of the day, all she had to do was open her mouth for me not to believe her," Louis-Dreyfus said.

So fight, and fight hard for the debates.  Just don't lie about why you want them.  It makes you look silly, dishonest, and yes, pathetic.  If Hillary was ahead, you would be fighting tooth and nail not to allow a fumble.  And your opponents would respect you for it.  Don't go down in flames with such a pathetic whimper better known as dishonesty.  It would be far more honest to say "we need to get this free advertising and to show that Obama is a whimp." Yes, you need to show you can kick his ass on the stage...that is respected.  Otherwise, your lying.

Tags: clinton, Debate, Honesty (all tags)




Excellent diary, very accurate look at the heart of this matter.

by ragekage 2008-04-26 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

Well, maybe, but Obama looks even more pathetic avoiding them - which is why you wrote this diary.

by Little Otter 2008-04-26 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

Not really.  He looks like he is in control, which he is.  Clinton is the one who looks like she is desperate for a debate.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-26 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

LOL - If he looked in control, we wouldn't be seeing all these defensive diaries. How many are up right now? Two or three?

The reason you guys are so defensive is that you know he wouldn't survive that debate. That's why Clinton called for it - to make the point that he isn't capable of handling that debate and everyone posting defensive diaries is proving that.

by Little Otter 2008-04-26 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

He is in control.  She is asking him to debate her ergo she is asking for his permission to debate.  He is the one with the power over the debates.  

This is just a political blog. You shouldn't read too much into the diaries.  This race is over. It has been for a while.  We don't need to get defensive because our guy has won already.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-26 06:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

Then why is he attacking clinton and why all these defensive diaries? LOL

Not only has your guy not won, he's scared to death to debate.

by Little Otter 2008-04-26 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

And every time I wonder if any of the Clinton folks are actually fooling themselves with the rhetoric which was intended for Obama supporters...

by mattjfogarty 2008-04-27 02:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

I think you are right.  

Their desperation is reaching a fever pitch.

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-27 05:05AM | 0 recs
Malicious Lies Don't Make it So...

Facts do.  Barack has not won?  Scared to death?  it could be the other way around!

by bacalove 2008-04-27 05:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

That's like saying that if Hillary Clinton wasn't in her last throws you guys wouldn't be so desperate for more debates.

by Mostly 2008-04-26 06:36PM | 0 recs
OK, to be perfectly honest....

.... I do like this site, but I honestly believe it is too small be a relevant factor in this race.  I argue knowing full well that my arguments, as well as the arguments I'm responding to are meaningless to the overall race.

I just enjoy argument.  I'm not playing games, as all of my arguments are honest and heartfelt, I just prefer challenging my own beliefs on a hostile site rather than having them caressed on Daily Kos (this is not a slam on dKos, it's the top political blog for a reason and I love it.)  

I've read many arguments on this site, and a large majority are convoluted and bogus.  I'm happy to say that I've tested my faith in Obama on this site, and it's never once wavered.  I know that several of your top tier diarists can not say the same in reverse and retreated from dKos to this site with their tails between their legs.

Of all the arguments presented, the only one that sticks a little is that he is an unknown quantity, and I had that concern long before I ever heard anyone else mention it.  I admit that it's entirely possible that Obama gets elected and becomes another reagan-bush-clinton-cheney corporate fluffer, but the raw terror he inspires in the media, republicans and DLCrats leads me to believe this is not the case.  

Fortunately for Obama, he is running against two known quantities that are already corporate fluffers.  So in this respect, he is the only possible choice for me.

Anyway..... the point is that I wouldn't interpret a small handful Obama supporters arguing with you as representative of the majority of Obama supporters who have never heard of MyDD, let alone Little Otter or dystopianfuturetoday.  Sorry if that's harsh, but that's how I see it.

Wow, that's practically a diary.    

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-04-26 07:22PM | 0 recs
Why The Glass Bubble

Look at the numbers to see why the voices here do not resonate.

by SovSov 2008-04-26 07:34PM | 0 recs
An answer to your question

I wrote a diary about this.  See how well it was received.

by SovSov 2008-04-26 07:36PM | 0 recs
Obama, Taking Back HIs Power!

Because Barack was Wise enough to point out how unfair and uneven the questions were directed at him, they label him a "whiner" instead of someone who and rightly so, is defending himself from a "hit job".  But, if he does this, this might expose the ones who are directing the barbs and hits so they distort with a number of similar voices, all saying the same thing to give it power (brainwashing)!  

Clintons and Republican Spin Machine all aligned against Barack!  Both are liars, distorters, engage in fear and smear... there is no truth from either of the Giants only domination... they have even colloborated together for greater strength, then one will overthrow the other if they get what they want!

Most of the corporate media, cable news, ABC, NBC are owned and Republican controled.  They tell us what they want us to Hear, not what we need to Know to truly inform us as a society, which will give us power and aid in their demise!  

They know Clintons have ailenated African-Americans so they are now actively courting their support while trying to elevate Hillary and deflate Barack. They MSM are not asking Hillary any of the pertinent questions, not on Iran, not on Mark Penn, although he is still on conference calls to this day, not on a pending lawsuit in California or anything elese that might damage her candidacy in the eyes of the people.  There is even some talk of personal dalliances of Bill Cllinton which they know about and plan to release if she is nominee.  

by bacalove 2008-04-27 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

What's cracking me up about this is the number of pro-Hillary diaries asserting that she's taking the lead co-mingling with other pro-Hillary diaries about her begging for more debates.

You guys need to be on the same page here.

by Mostly 2008-04-26 06:33PM | 0 recs
stay on point

it isn't about who is winning, losing, etc.  it is about being honest.  this is why people are driven, like Louis-Dryfus, from the Hillary Camp.  This is why Richardson left.  B/c we need a new type of debate.  Not someone telling us that the reason they are debating is for anything other than the fumble.  Look at the polls and how people perceive Hillary.  They think she is a liar.  This merely keeps that going.  Her biggest boost is "she is a fighter."  Thus, she should say "I'm calling him out b/c I need a good target...his face."  We could respect that, at least.

by SovSov 2008-04-26 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

Yep, ask for anything you want.  Say it is for any reason you want. Try to spin all you want. We all know better.

by mattjfogarty 2008-04-27 01:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Why Honesty Counts

Sometimes I wonder if the people towing the line for Clinton here are actually fooling themselves or not.  They are pretty good at pretending they believe the nonsense, and most of us know better, but I wonder if there is still some poor sod or two out there who really buys all the Clinton campaign messaging?

by mattjfogarty 2008-04-27 01:56AM | 0 recs


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