Florida and MI were never the issue!

I'm sick of the diaries which keep telling us to count FL and MI and then the rebuttal ones which talk about why they shouldn't be counted.  Then you have the recent flurry of people saying "even if you do count them, in a manner which HRC wanted, Obama will win." You are all barking up the wrong tree...counting was never really the issue.  

By the time HRC started to bring up the FL and MI issue counting them was really not going to help her.  Back in the day it was going to help with some of the possible metrics but it was never a game winner for her.  Instead it was a vehicle for smear and not a vehicle to change the numbers.

By repeatedly talking about MI and FL HRC's campaign has merely been calling Obama a "cheater,""Chicken,""undemocratic," etc.  Somehow the narrative got just down right loopy.  We had this picture of Obama with a six shooter in his hands holding the DNC hostage all while refusing to count legit red white and blue votes.  Instead, the candidates all agreed to follow the DNC rules and part of those rules was to not seat delegates from rogue states.  

Seeing the issue, HRC started to float some pretty whacky ideas.  Such as lets count the votes in MI along who they were cast for.  Tough if Obama was not on the ballot...he gets zero.  Or lets do a re-vote but you had to vote in the last primary to vote in this one.  Thus, freezing out all the Obama people who stayed home during the first go around b/c their candidate wasn't on the ballot.  HRC knew that no intelligent, self-respecting candidate could agree to such loopy notions.  In fact HRC was hoping they would be rejected.  

With Obama, intelligently, questioning HRC's insane new ideas, HRC's campaign then ran around saying "Obama is not willing to have FL and MI counted."  "Obama is undemocratic, chicken, a cheater." "Obama talks inclusion but he really believes in denying people the right to have their vote counted." 

The whole thing was an ugly set up.  HRC suggested what she knew was just impossible and then when it was rejected, according to plan, she tried to use it to smear her opponent.  In reality, HRC never cared if they counted the FL and MI votes, they were not going to get her the win.  Instead, she wanted to argue the issue to bolster her smear.  A smear which was opposite of what Obama's campaign used as its strength...unity, inclusion, counting everyone's vote, and a bottom up approach.  

So stop talking numbers.  It merely means you are falling into the evil trap and defending Obama, or justifying his actions, when it was all a big set up.

Tags: smear (all tags)




Are you serious?  So now things that Obama supporters and the Obama campaign don't agree with are evil?  Can we call it an axis of evil?

by linc 2008-05-18 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: If the Obama was the stronger candidate...

Well, he does not need Hillary to back him up. Obama already has Edwards, so if Edwards is the one that will allow him to capture the blue-collar worker; then, I say, "Let him have at it."

Although this Tuesday, Obama will run out of his bags-o-tricks cereal (It's not in the kool-aid; it's in the cereal). Now, I was going to type a unifying article, for democrats to focus their attention on the republicans, but it did not post. So, I'm defending Hillary when she needs it most.

by Check077 2008-05-18 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

No, it was a bait and switch.  An effective one at that.  The numbers never really helped HRC.  Instead the idea that her opponent was trying to deny people their vote is what helped her.  People have been running the "numbers" for months and realizing they weren't going to help HRC at the end of the day.  Hence, it was never the numbers...it was the ability to create a narrative that just wasn't true.  It isn't a matter of agreeing...it is a matter of using an issue in a manner which is nothing more than an excuse to smear.

by SovSov 2008-05-18 07:18PM | 0 recs

that's better.  Why don't you edit your diary and put that comment in place of your last sentence.  We don't need to be doing the dichotomy thing... that's for Republicans.

by linc 2008-05-18 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

yawn...now people are telling me how to write my diary.  Gumption?

by SovSov 2008-05-18 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

Let's not forget that Senator Clinton was the one who, in the end, vetoed the compromise that the Michigan Dem party came up with to get their delegates seated at the convention.  Never forget that.

Clinton isn't interested in an amicable settlement.  She isn't interested in following the wishes of Michigan Democrats.  She's interested in squeezing out as many delegates as she can from the state, and if she can't do that, then just leave it as a wedge issue.

by BishopRook 2008-05-18 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

the issue is the democratic shouldn't commit suicide if by the end of the day you think edwards will help with the common white vote go ahead 20 million or more democrats will vote republican  

by awayer 2008-05-18 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

Well I could never vote republican, but Ralphie may be getting a donation or two...

by switching sides 2008-05-19 03:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

Counting the votes was always the issue, going back before the Rules committee decision when Hillary Clinton said

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, "The Exchange." "But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008."

She knew Michigan would be important to the nominee, regardless of who it was, and that if we wanted Michigan's support in the general election we would have to honor their votes in the primary. She was telling the truth in New Hampshire even when she knew doing so would hurt her chances there and in Iowa. Obama had his chance to "do right" by Florida and Michigan as he promised to do. He passed on it. If he wins by ignoring the votes of 2.5 million Democrats then his win has no legitimacy.

by souvarine 2008-05-18 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida and MI were never the issue!

Edwards is a 2 time loser.

by orion1 2008-05-19 02:31AM | 0 recs
how about

the people on here who talked about Florida and Michigan before any of the primaries started?

by sepulvedaj3 2008-05-19 05:02AM | 0 recs


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