Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

The  term vettign has been thrown around a lot lately, primarily by supporters of Hillary Clinton, the problem with demanding vetting is that once it starts you can't always control where it goes. This is certainly the case with the recent media attention to Hillary foriegn policy "experience" and given what has turned up in the last few days (see the following), one has to wonder whether Clinton's potemkin resume will even exist by the Pennsylvania primary:

Hillary a "cheerleader" in Irish Peace Talks, says Nobel Winner who actually led them: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht ml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml

Hillary's Resume is basically a puff piece:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-experiencemar07,1,394674.story

And this doesn't evn get into the absurdity of claiming a trip to the Balkans as experience when it was basically a photo-op (though it is possible I guess that Hillary intends to nominate Sinbad DCI and place Sheryl Crow of the NSC).

Tags: experience, Foriegn Policy, Hillary, Ireland (all tags)



Re: Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

They know how to deal with foreign entities, as Borat-Gate has demonstrated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/pol itics/31donor.html?pagewanted=all

by Setrak 2008-03-09 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

Hilzoy had an excellent post on Bill's claim that Hillary wanted to intervene in Rwanda and that, were she calling the shots, she would have.

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_ wings/2008/03/hilary-clinton.html

It's not exactly something that Hillary is citing in terms of experience, but I thought I'd share the link since it relates to present attempts to characterize Hillary's involvement as first lady.

by DPW 2008-03-09 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience

The question is if Hillary has a thin resume wtf is Obama doing in the race?

by rossinatl 2008-03-09 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience

Running for President.  They both are.

Although personally, I like Obama's experience more.  His management style is molded after being a community organizer, getting people together to help their neighborhood and themselves.  That's what our country needs right now.

Another thing I like about Obama's is that he doesn't have to exaggerate it.  Or leave out certain parts, like serving on the Wal-Mart board of directors.   Now she's supposedly the populist candidate?  Ha!

by Setrak 2008-03-09 08:13PM | 0 recs
"35 years of experience"

Hillary Clinton's main selling point is her "35 years of experience," including all sorts of foreign policy work and, presumably, a proven ability to answer a national security crisis at 3am. That's the essence of her campaign. She's been there and done that. Except, she hasn't really been there and done that. All she is is promises and a puffed resume. Once the media starts challenging her on all this supposed experience, we'll see what she really brings to the table.

by elrod 2008-03-09 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience

Echo of the poster above me. Hillary made this about experience. you take that away from her, then you have nothing. Of course Obama has a MUCH smaller body of work to look at, but he is consistent in his words with respect to his history. His entire career has been about bipartisanship, etc, which he can prove.

by xodus1914 2008-03-09 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience

Yah, like his parents met in Selma or where?

by Actright 2008-03-09 11:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience

Huh? they met in Hawaii. WHat are you talking about?

by xodus1914 2008-03-11 04:54PM | 0 recs
You have no idea what you are talking about or

getting in the middle of.  That quote from the Noble peace prize winner is from Lord David Trimble, the Ulster Unionist.  John Hume, with whom he shared the Prize, has said the opposite:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ hume-and-trimble-clash-over-clintons-pea ce-role-1311181.html

Are you trying to piss off Irish-Americans or what?  

by linc 2008-03-09 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: You have no idea what you are talking about or

I'll trust Tim Pat Coogan on this. Trimble and Hume are obviously biased. Coogan is one of the best historians of Irish history, including his epic book The Troubles:

    But Tim Pat Coogan, an Irish historian who has written extensively on the conflict in Northern Ireland, said the first lady's visits were not decisive in the negotiating breakthroughs in Northern Ireland.

   "It was a nice thing to see her there, with the women's groups. It helped, I suppose," Coogan said. "But it was ancillary to the main thing. It was part of the stage effects, the optics.

   "There were all kinds of peace movements, women's movements throughout the `Troubles.' But it was more about the clout of Bill Clinton," added Coogan, who said Clinton administration decisions to grant visas to leaders of the Irish Republican Army's political wing and appoint a U.S. negotiator were the keys to changing the political climate.

For more on this, see here:

http://momentoftriumph.wordpress.com/200 8/03/08/what-experience/

Northern Ireland was a great accomplishment of Bill Clinton's. And yes, Hillary helped along the way. But is her experience in Northern Ireland any more critical than Laura Bush's work among women in Afghanistan - where she has also worked with women from different ethnic groups to encourage political and religious moderation? I don't think so.

by elrod 2008-03-09 08:34PM | 0 recs
Well, obviously her work was meaningless.

All of those women were just sitting around gossiping, talking to each other over tea while the men did all the real work that led to peace.

What else could a woman be, other than a cheerleader on the sidelines?  Listen to all of these silly women, thinking that Hillary helped them make a difference:

In a series of statements compiled by labor and fair employment advocate Inez McCormack, Clinton was lauded for her "decade-long support" of the peace process.

"We believe it is important for others to know the pivotal role Mrs. Clinton played in helping us in Northern Ireland at critical junctures in the peace process. She supported us over many years and we will always be grateful to her," said McCormack

"Hillary Clinton took risks for peace in asking me and others to bring women and communities from both traditions to affirm their capacity to work for common purpose," McCormack said.

"She used her immense influence to give women like me space to develop this work and validated it every step of the way. This approach is now taken for granted but it wasn't then. She told us that if we take risks for peace, she would stay with us on that journey. In my experience, it took hard work, attention to detail and a commitment of time and energy which she delivered steadily and where needed over the last decade," McCormack added.

Similar testimonies have been forthcoming from other women, Protestant and Catholic. They include prominent community worker Elaine Crozier, Baroness May Blood, a member of the British House of Lords, Geraldine McAteer, chief executive of the West Belfast Partnership Board, Avila Kilmurray, head of the Community Foundation for Northern Ireland, Patricia Lewsley, former member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and currently Commissioner for Children and Young People, and Joanna McVey, former CEO of the Fermanagh-published Impartial Reporter newspaper and chair of the Fermanagh Trust.

"She turned empathy into action. Her iconic address to the first Vital Voices conference in Belfast in 1998 was truly inspirational and her ongoing support for women's role in peace building and the transformation of economic and political life in the North was manifested through other initiatives and her own personal involvement," stated McVey in her statement.

That 1998 visit to the North was just one of seven undertaken by Clinton between 1995 and 2004, both with president Clinton and on her own. In addition, Clinton has hosted numerous visitors from both communities in the North on American soil.

A precise accounting of Clinton's visits to Ireland and her work for Irish peace forms the basis for a book being published later this year by Stella O'Leary, Washington. D.C.-based president of the Irish American Democrats lobby group.

O'Leary has been one of Hillary Clinton's most fervent backers over the years and in a statement to the Echo took particular exception to a critical column penned by Dick Morris and Eileen McGann that took issue with recent campaign statements made by Clinton about her peace process initiatives.

The column, headlined "Hillary Had No Role in Irish Peace," characterized the statement as being tantamount to Walter Mitty-like dreams.

Anything but, countered O'Leary.

"It will come as a huge surprise to the Irish, North and South, to hear Dick Morris and Eileen McGann's claim that Senator Hillary Clinton played no role in the Irish peace process," said O'Leary.

"Starting with the Christmas visit to Belfast in 1995, Hillary Clinton recognized that the participation of women was critical in bringing about an end to the conflict, and she set about inspiring women to become politically involved," O'Leary said.

"The meeting with Mrs. (Joyce) McCartan was a prelude to Senator Clinton opening a larger dialogue with women leaders on both sides of the border. At her prompting, the White House arranged for a delegation of American women leaders to meet in Belfast with their Irish counterparts and the outcome of that meeting was the Vital Voices Conference in 1998.

"As a result of that conference, Northern Ireland women became much more involved in running for elective office and when the time came, the Women's Party were full participants with George Mitchell in the peace negotiations.

"Morris and McGann do not carry a single quote from any leader in Ireland on Senator Clinton's contribution to the solution of the Irish conflict. Nor do they carry a quote from Senator Mitchell. I challenge them to find one political leader, of any significance in Ireland, who does not agree that Senator Clinton's involvement with the women of Northern Ireland, and her advocacy for children damaged by the conflict, played a crucial role in bringing about the Good Friday Agreement," O'Leary said.

"Morris and McGann mention a few of the people Senator Clinton met on her visits to Ireland and scoff at the importance of those meetings."

O'Leary said that in her forthcoming book she would be including tributes to Clinton for her role in the peace process from individuals including Bertie Ahern, Cherie Blair, Gerry Adams, Bono and John Hume.

"Based on the tributes I received, the people of Ireland are profoundly grateful to Senator Clinton for taking an interest and giving her time to inspire us to pull together and build a better life for the people of Northern Ireland.

"If Morris and McGann are truly interested in knowing whether Senator Clinton's involvement made a difference in Ireland, then I suggest that they consult some Irish people. The response will be an outpouring of gratitude, admiration, respect and love and, most of all, a heartfelt wish that Senator Clinton become the next President of the United States," O'Leary concluded.

Source: http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story .cfm?id=18626

by KevinCinNYC 2008-03-09 08:55PM | 0 recs
If This Race...

Was about nothing but experience and resumes, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and Bill Richardson deserved to stomp Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama into the ground months ago.  Both candidates pale in comparison to any of the three of them in the realm of experience and accomplishments.  

I think both the Clinton and Obama supporters here should be able to make a coherent argument for why electing a president is about more than a simple resume measuring contest.  Seems only one campaign  has been willing and able to do so however, which gives me some pause...

If this campaign is just about experience and resumes, then McCain deserves to beat either of our soon to be nominees in the Fall.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-09 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

Awesome comments KevinCinNYC. The manner in which Obama supporters are running over each other to dismiss Hillary's work in Clinton WH is grossly sexist. As if all of her work with foreign peoples and governments were really only excuses for her to take a vaca overseas and hang out with the girls. Ugh...

by corunner26 2008-03-09 09:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

Some of her work is legit, the problem is so much of it is hyped up.

by Setrak 2008-03-09 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience? The unravelling of the HRC myth

Her experience in the White House is a legitimate positive part of her resume. However her role as "co-commander-in-chief" was fabricated for her Presidential campaign. As first lady she held no security clearance, did not receive the Presidents daily intelligence briefings and she did not attend National Security Council meetings. Neither John McCain or Hillary has ever been in the executive chair with the responsibility for the nation's future and security on the line in an international crisis.

The closest they have come is in their role as Senators when asked to weigh in on Iraq. They both made the wrong decision and Hillary finally admitted it after years of spinning in the last debate. She evidently learned nothing from her mistake as she voted to allow Bush to attack Iran even after seeing how irresponsibly he handled the power granted him with the Iraq resolution.

If being on the wrong side of  Iraq and Iran was not bad enough she is now endorsing McCain's fitness to be Commander in Chief. This is the same McCain that sang Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, has capitulated on torture after years of taking a principled stand against it and has promised 100 years of war. He has proposed to extend and expand the Bush doctrine. Any Democrat who would lend there endorsement to McCain as CIC has proven they are unfit to stand for the party in any capacity as it relates to National security.

Rumsfield and Cheney have more foreign policy experience then McCain and Hillary combined and have proven the most dangerous and incompetent stewards of the nations security in history. Clearly they prove judgment trumps experience as the track record of Washington and our government painfully illustrate.

Hillary has ceded national security to the Republicans. She didn't want to look weak on national security so she voted with the Republicans on Iraq and Iran. She thinks that by aligning herself with McCain she makes herself look tougher on defense. That is because she accepts the Republican narrative on security, the party that have been the worst stewards of the nations defense in its history. Weakening our allies, strengthening our foes and destroying our military preparedness. All she has proven in kissing McCain's ass on the CIC question is that she is unfit to lead and that for the sake of political expediency she is willing to do anything.

by hankg 2008-03-10 06:05AM | 0 recs
Trimble and a bunch of Obama stooges

How many times are you guys going to post this? Repetition doesn't make it any more valid, you're looking like idiots. This is the third diary touting these articles:

Facts Continue to Debunk Hillary Clinton's Lies on Ireland

Hillary: I helped bring peace to Northern Ireland....NOT

And in an off-topic post by mainelib.

Look, your guy's 'experience' is pathetic, but you're not helping him by touting an Irish Protestant bigot and a bunch of Obama surrogates (Rice, Daalder, Smith) as evidence indicting Hillary Clinton's experience. Your choice of sources demonstrates that you have no idea what you are talking about. Or worse, you do know and you are stooping to Obama levels of integrity. Try to have at least a little self respect.

by souvarine 2008-03-09 09:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Trimble and a bunch of Obama stooges

What I find most amusing is Hillary's mantra of "35 years of experience." She's then counting her experience from the day she graduated law school.

I would ask then:

How did her years as a corporate attorney with the Rose Law Firm, replete with shady land deals, and her "service" on the BOD of Wal-Mart qualify her to answer the phone at 3 am?

How did her years as First Lady of Arkansas qualify her to answer the phone at 3 am?

What exactly did she do as First Lady of the US to qualify her? The myth of her involvement in foreign affairs is being debunked daily. She was asked by her husband to lead the charge for health care reform, a detail she bungled so badly that 12 years later, we've made zero progress and it's a top campaign issue still.

by vermontprog 2008-03-10 01:43AM | 0 recs


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