Kicked to the Curb

OK, I get it.

I have been fighting like crazy for Hillary Clinton and her nomination as the Democratic candidate for President, and I have, quite frankly, been surprised with the depth of my feelings on this subject.  I didn't even become a  supporter of Hillary until about early February of this year.  But I have come to learn and love the fact that Hillary Clinton represents me, my values, and all of the efforts and struggles and, well, crap, that I have lived through to become the person that I am (and, despite what Obama's supporters have told me time and time again, I am successful, happy, committed to progressive agendas, a friend and a lover...God's in my heaven and all's right with my world.)

But something else was at play in my passion this primary.

This morning it came to me.  I have been fighting not just for Hillary Clinton (whom I genuinely feel is so much more qualified to be POTUS, and whom I will continue to support right up to November and for anything she ever wants to do in the future), I have been fighting to stay in the Democratic Party.  

And I have failed.  I have been kicked to the curb.  Given my walking papers.  And told to "get out".

So I am going.

But before I go, please know who is leaving.

I organized for the Democratic Party (I ran a campaign in my hometown that brought a Dem majority into power - so much so that the Repugs have not even put up a slate in the past 3 elections).

I have created advertising and mailers for local Democratic Party candidates.

I have donated - thousands of dollars - much to my husband's chagrin.

I have marched in DC for every Pro-Choice rally that took place during my lifetime.

I have marched in two New York City Anti-War rallies.

I have phoned, and walked, and talked, and e-mailed for every Democratic candidate in my lifetime.  

In the past, I, and others like me, were the backbone of the party.    We got things done.  We funded campaigns.  We turned out the vote.  We won elections.

I believed in a party that supported hard working people, health care for every American, all human rights, every part of the Constitution, worked - together - against racism, jobs in America, fairness in monetary policies and justice for all (I know, pretty sappy, isn't it!)

And now I have been asked by so many Obama supporters who are proclaiming control over the Democratic Party to leave and not let the door hit me in the ass on my way out, that I have decided to do it.    

Originally those were just "fighting words" to me.  And I choose to ignore them.  But this morning I realized that this is exactly what the Democratic Party wants me to do, too.  So, I'm going.

Because the New Democratic Party is a complete unknown to me.  I don't recognize who the power players are.  I don't understand what those power players are trying to do except, IMHO, disenfranchise the former backbone of the Party. I don't support the candidate that those power players are pushing on the electorate.  I can't tell you his policies...because he can't articulate those policies to me.  

Yesterday I got a mailer for Mr. Obama that included a "Special Message from Ted Kennedy" in which Senator Kennedy said:  "The Obama Campaign is about a new generation of leadership....we will turn the page on the old politics of misrepresentation, distortion and division..." - a strange message from Senator Kennedy who is one of the oldest parts of those old politics.  

And the overall theme of the mailer from Mr. Obama played off of and repeated one of the most asinine lines I have ever heard in my entire life:  "We are the change we've been waiting for." My head exploded.

So I get it.  In the bigger scheme of things I am "yesterday", old news, past my prime.   The New Democratic Party doesn't want or need me, my time, my money, my passion, my commitment or my vote.  You just want me out of your way.

So I'm going.  Not with rancor.  Not with bitterness.  I'm just going.

Good luck.  And God Bless America.  

Tags: GBCW; Hillary Clinton; Obama Supporters; Democratic Party (all tags)

Comments

343 Comments

So in all that activism...

you've never lost before?

by Travis Stark 2008-05-20 07:23AM | 0 recs
She must have...she supported

Democrats all her life.

I don't get anger over loss in this diary.  Just a realization that some Dems are no longer wanted.  And when you're not wanted, you don't want to give anything more of yourself.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
Where could you possibly be getting

the impression that "some Democrats aren't wanted?"

by drmark 2008-05-20 07:28AM | 0 recs
From Senator Kennedy and Obama

"The Obama Campaign is about a new generation of leadership"

"We are the change..."

Plus, of course, almost every message from the Obama campaign AND ITS SUPPORTERS is that old-time Dems don't count or matter any more.

When you're not appreciated, you don't hang around.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

You do realize "We are the Change" means WE as in all of us... you're welcome to be the change too.

by Tatan 2008-05-20 07:52AM | 0 recs
I guess some of us don't know what

"change" means.  Change for the sake of change is never good.  And, I think it feels as if it's all "out with the 'old', in with the new" - and that is impractical and - perhaps - stupid.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I guess some of us don't know what

Like I said, I'm just glad you weren't around for Bill Clinton's 92 run.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 08:13AM | 0 recs
Somebody said once in a comment

that it's about Old vs. Young.

My reply was no it isn't...it's about Old vs. New.

Old way of doing politics, old way of running government, etc.   We need to change that because the old ways were why we weren't accomplishing our goals.

I'm a grandmother but I can see that we need something new.  I want to pass the torch to the next generation of Democrats and help them get our party established.  They are the future, I will be around for only a small part of that future.  They must be the stewards.

I hope that made sense.

by GFORD 2008-05-20 08:58AM | 0 recs
Problem is -

the 'old' you mention is often translated into actual years rather worn out policies and ideas.  We are way too willing to toss the baby out with the bathwater here in America.  We worship what is perceived as new and young - trashing or ignoring what is considered old and therefore useless.  It's nutty.  So I understand what the diarist means - though I don't intend packing up my kit and leaving - no matter how often I'm told to `go back to the 1950's where I belong' (my knowledge of 1950's America comes from watching re-runs of `Leave it to Beaver' on Nick at Night).  But I'm an Independent Progressive who usually votes Democratic.  I too have worked my ass off for change in America - but I did it because it was right - not because it benefited one particular party.  I do not want nor intend to stand aside and let the 'young' take over.  I'm just not the retiring kind.  

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-05-20 03:15PM | 0 recs
Ted Kennedy is 76.

I don't think most people consider him as young and I certainly didn't see Obama tossing him out with the bathwater.

by edg1 2008-05-20 05:10PM | 0 recs
Then why is he considered 'young' -

and Hillary Clinton 'old'?  Kennedy represents the stalwart old guard of the Democratic Party - people who put it all on the line during one of the most divisive times in American History.  He's done his party proud - then and now - but he's not alone in that.  I remember when Bill Clinton was elected.  He was lauded as representative of the 'new' wing of the Democratic Party - bringing youth and vigor to a party worn down by 12 years of Republican occupation of the White House.  Now both Clinton's are openly denigrated as Republican by the very same Democrats who lauded their entry into the White House 16 years ago.  It just seems to me that up has become the new down.  I thought it was Republicans who required the litmus tests.

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-05-20 09:17PM | 0 recs
I'm not that touchy on the subject.

When I was young I was cocky too.  Now I'm old(er) and still pretty cocky.  I still say it's old (way) vs. new (way), not old (people) vs. young (people).  Progressives always push for progress, not for status quo.  Progress means embracing the new, not clinging to the old.

Everybody's body gets old but our minds, our attitudes don't have to.  80-year-olds have Ipods at the gym, email accounts and cell phones.  I overheard a widower in his 60's ten years ago talk about how he met his new wife online.

I went back to college at 40, changed careers at 45, went from (boring)accounting to (fun)IT.  Now I'm nearing 60, grandmother to a college student and a contract programmer.  Having the time of my life.

You and I are part of the change that is about to happen ... change driven by progressives ... both young and old ... progressives like us.

by GFORD 2008-05-20 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I guess some of us don't know what

Obama has articulated many many times what change he is looking for. He wants to change the mindset of foreign policy that says military force is the #1 option. He wants to change our health care system so that it is universal for children, and affordable for all with no insurance company denial of benefits. He wants to change our oil-first energy policy so that we move massively towards alternative energy. He wants to change the influence of corporate lobbyists over our government. Instead he wants and is succeeding in getting many new people involve in politics and fighting for these things (but this does NOT mean he doesn't want you to be part of the change also - he wants all of us involved). These are just a few changes that Obama is talking about over and over and over again. You obviously believe in these things. I am sorry you are turned off by some of the rhetoric, for many people it is inspiring (including me and I am 60 years old and feel very included by his rhetoric). I can understand why you are turned off by a minority of Obama supporters who are obnoxious about their choice(just as a minority of Clinton supporters are obnoxious). But they definitely do not represent Obama, and they do not represent the majority of Obama supporters.

So please keep up your idealism and join us and keep fighting for the change you want. Obama has a wonderful history as a progressive activist. The change he wants is very much like the change you want.

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 10:24AM | 0 recs
Back in 98, I marched and protested FOR

the Clintons.

I'm not some new kid to this.  But it is time to throw out the old rascals.  If this past year of the "Democratic Majority Congress" (quotes intentional) have taught us anything, it's that it's not good enough to have just Democrats in power, if they are spineless jellyfish who rubberstamp everything the Republicans want.  

So I got that message loud and clear before I ever gave up on Edwards and switched to Obama.  Some people in the Democratic Party apparently are so comfortable with the business as usual that they stopped fighting for us.  Oh, they fight for nominations just swell!  But they don't fight for America, not if it might hurt them in their fundraising or key microtrend demographics, or if they might get called cowards or unpatriotic by some right-wing talk show host.

Some people just have to go.  I don't know about you, Coyote, but I can name several that I would love to see get kicked to the curb, including both Clintons, who I feel betrayed by.

At least I expect Republicans to fuck us over.  That's their job in this life.  But we vote and we work and we donate and fight for Democrats to get into office so they will at least try to SLOW DOWN the Republicans in their mischief.  

And, by the way, if you went to any anti-war marches in New York, they must be different from the ones I have marched in on the west coast, because out here, generally speaking, they are very anti-Hillary.  At such rallies, you find less party solidarity and more fury about the war and its enablers, including certain elected Democrats.

by Dumbo 2008-05-20 05:50PM | 0 recs
Those who won't vote for the nominee
in November should indeed get out.  This is a blog devoted to electing Democrats, not McCain, not Nader.  Every last one of Obama's supporters would have voted for Clinton this November if she had run a competent campaign and won the nomination.  We would have been pissed, but ANY Democrat is preferable to McCain.  
Any Democrat, get it, people?
by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-20 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Those who won't vote for the nominee

wrong.  This blog is NOT devoted to only democrats.  To you have to re-read about MyDD

MyDD is a group blog designed to discuss campaigns, the progressive movement, and political power. We do polling, research, commentary, analysis, and activism. Here are the three front-page writers.

so, if people want to support Nader and write diaries on them here, they are allowed to do so.  

Why do I hear shades of Bush Cultism when I read crap comments like above?

by colebiancardi 2008-05-20 08:50AM | 0 recs
Really? Nader supporters are welcome?
I don't believe that to be the case.  I'm sure the many thousands of Iraqis who have perished because of Nader's repug-funded Tweedle Dee Tweedle Dum bullshit in 2000 would disagree if they were to have a voice.
The rest of your idiotic "Bush cult" comment isn't worthy of a response, only a hide rating, which I shall withold for the moment.
by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-20 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Those who won't vote for the nominee

Maybe because you're looking for them?

I would imagine that Nader supporters would be welcome to write diaries anytime they want.  I haven't seen it.  What I have seen is people advocating for third party candidates EXPRESSLY to take down Barack Obama and allow John McCain to win.

John McCain is not a progressive.  Working to help John McCain win is not a progressive cause.  I don't really think there's much room for debate here.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 09:07AM | 0 recs
Neither is your candidate!

Just last week he accused the peace activists of the 60's of dishonoring our troops on their return from Viet Nam just to appeal to the conservative people of Kentucky! He wasn't old enough to be aware of what was going on at that time while he was living in the Phillipines. Don't you understand how repugnant that comes across to us who were tear gassed during those demonstrations?

Where's your contribution to the peace movement on this war except to vote for a guy who disguised himself as an opponent of the war but keeps voting to fund it! You know what saddened me the most when I saw all the young people in Oregon? It's the fact that he didn't ask any of them to protest against the war in order to end it NOW but that wouldn't help his campaign would it?. What a coward!!! the audacity of hope what a bunch of crap!!!!

by suzieg 2008-05-21 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Those who won't vote for the nominee

Coleb, Todd and Jerome have said many times this is a Partisan blog.

I respect and admire your devotion to Hillary and urge you to throw that same support behind the Democratic nominee, be they black male or white female.

by AK Democrat 2008-05-20 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Those who won't vote for the nominee

This is a blog devoted to electing Democrats, not McCain, not Nader.
And I'll add a bit of righteous anger here that a similar "abandoning" of the Dem party in 2000 is largely what gave us GWBush.  Anybody who wants to repeat that in 08 & help bring on 4 more years of this can go straight to hell.

by rb608 2008-05-20 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Those who won't vote for the nominee

And the horse they rode in on.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-20 09:24AM | 0 recs
Let me ask you a question

Should those Democrats who don't vote for Obama in the fall "get out and stay out?"  Should they not bother voting for other Democrats either now or in the future?

Consider the sound of this attitude and you should see clearly why words like this are NEVER, EVER, EVER spoken by any responsible Democratic leader.  Good voters are where you find them, whenever you find them.

by lombard 2008-05-20 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama
The change I see, is not something I want to be part of.  The Venom and hate that has spewed from the Obama camp and his army is exactly like the hate and venom that came from the GWB zealots in 2000.  I agree that this party no longer represents my values.  For someone that says he isn't like the old politics certainly plays the game well... the Greatest politicians are those who claim not to be.  
Obama will lose the GE because of this, I will not support him.
by radarmel 2008-05-20 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

There is plenty of venom and hate coming from both Obama supporters and Clinton supporters. To me it seems mostly to come from Clinton supporters but that is probably my bias because I support Obama so that affects me more strongly. But I am a regular reader of Daily Kos and I see plenty of venom and hate from Obama supporters too. I occasionally comment against it but usually I just ignore it. If you are open to seeing it you will see plenty of venom from the Clinton side too.

The voice of the hateful is unfortunately terribly amplified on the internet. Anyone can just spew it anonymously and it easily disrupts civil debate. I've seen many threads where one hateful comment is made and then there's nothing but reaction and counter-reaction to it afterwards, usually venomous as well because passions get roused. I won't deny that I have gotten riled and made remarks in the heat of the moment that I regretted later.

But please recognize that this is totally unrepresentative of Obama and of most of his supporters. To me Obama is a wonderful model of thoughtfulness, civility and inclusiveness (though not without an occasional slip).

If you really have progressive values I think you will reconsider and will support Obama in the end. He has a remarkable history of progressive action. And the alternative of John McCain is abominable. His main promise is that there will be more war, more and more unnecessary killing. Is that really what you wish to support?

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

I agree that there has been much unpleasantness from both camps.  Sometimes I pop over to Big Orange just to see how much frothing against Clinton still goes on.  Way too much, as it turns out.  It's really ugly.

I might be more willing to support Obama (should he become the nominee) if people would stop behaving as if Obama has done anything all that special.  As it stands, to say he's done anything "remarkable" is way off the mark and is insulting to my intelligence.

To say that McCain sucks beyond belief - that I can agree with.

by Montague 2008-05-20 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Well I consider it remarkable that a top graduate of Harvard Law School would go to Chicago and become a community organizer. I consider it remarkable that in the Illinois State legislature he could organize support for mandatory taping of police interrogations from both police and republicans. I consider his 2 books remarkable. I consider his speech against the Iraq War at an anti-war rally extremely admirable. I can't say that he has done anything remarkable as a United States senator, but with Bush as president that's pretty hard. Chris Dodd with his support for our constitution is one of the few I'd label remarkable in that respect. I do think he has been solidly good as a U.S. Senator. To me his record has been quite comparable to Hillary Clinton's record with the major exception that she voted to authorize the Iraq War and he opposed it.

If Hillary Clinton had voted against authorizing the Iraq War she would be the overwhelming winner of the Democratic nomination now, and I would be an enthusiastic supporter. Unfortunately she did made a horrible choice on the most important vote of her career, and that is why she has deservedly lost.

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

"Top" graduate?  Where in the class was he ranked?  It's been acknowledged that he was made editor of the law review based on his moderator skills, not his brainpower.  He may indeed have been top-ranked but I'd have to see the stats before I'd believe that.  I have four attorney siblings who attended top schools so I know how law school works.

Hey, I'm a top graduate of Brown University and I have spent thousands of hours creating nonprofit community organizations and never been paid for it at all.  I don't consider myself all that remarkable.  People do that kind of shit all the time.  Difference is, they're not egotistical so you never hear about them.

by Montague 2008-05-20 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

From having read Obama's books, heard his speeches, seen the causes he has championed and seen how he has run an incredibly successful campaign against long odds, in my mind there is no doubt he is a brilliant and highly moral man. Egotistical - undoubtedly. Name me a person who has ever run for President who is not egotistical.

As for Harvard Law school I don't know where he ranked, but its hard to imagine someone being chosen to be editor of the Harvard Law Review who was not one of the "top" students. He gave up big bucks and big prestige to become a community organizer and if you think it was just all part of his plan to become president well then even I would have to say he devised a more brilliant plan than I could give him credit for. If you sacrificed a lot to do good work then good for you also. I know a number of people who have dedicated themselves to doing good and I think they are all remarkable people (I wish I could include myself in their number - I have sacrificed some to do good but I have done so much less than many others).

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

BO graduated from Columbia in 83 and worked for Business International Corp. and NYPIRG until 85 when he went to Chicago to do community organizing until 88. After graduating from Harvard Law in 1991 he went to work for a law firm in Chicago as well as teaching at U of C Law School. It is often misstated that AFTER Law School he took a low paying community organizing job....that was before Law School.

by jentwisl 2008-05-20 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

I confess. I got my facts wrong there. I still think he is a brilliant and highly moral man.

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Brilliant, definitely not.  He stumbles when speaking off the cuff.  Moral?  That one scares me from anyone.  I don't want to hear about morality.  My idea of morality does NOT include letting ex-gay haters on my campaign stage.

Ugh.

Of course pres. candidates are egotistical.  I mind that a lot less when the person is actually extremely intelligent and works really, really hard.

Obama didn't give up big bucks and prestige.  He actively sought the prestige in order to one day run for big office.

by Montague 2008-05-20 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

And my idea of morality does not include voting to authorize the Iraq war. As far as intelligence and working really, really hard go, how would you explain the fact that Obama defeated a candidate who had enormous advantages over him because of her husband's presidency, reflected in the fact that the original polls showed her winning by a landslide.

I do find it hard to defend Obama's having McClurkin as a campaigner for him in South Carolina. He did also have a gay minister speak at that rally and I believe Obama has been more vocal in talking about gay and lesbian rights in his campaign speeches then Clinton has. Still I concede that his decision was based more on political expediency than on morality.

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

And my idea of morality does not include voting to authorize the Iraq war. As far as intelligence and working really, really hard go, how would you explain the fact that Obama defeated a candidate who had enormous advantages over him because of her husband's presidency, reflected in the fact that the original polls showed her winning by a landslide.

I do find it hard to defend Obama's having McClurkin as a campaigner for him in South Carolina. He did also have a gay minister speak at that rally and I believe Obama has been more vocal in talking about gay and lesbian rights in his campaign speeches then Clinton has. Still I concede that his decision was based more on political expediency than on morality.

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 05:14PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Well I consider it remarkable that a top graduate of Harvard Law School would go to Chicago and become a community organizer.

Get your chronology straight! He became a community organizer after he got his BA from Columbia University. I graduated from the University of Chicago at the same time, and I don't consider it incredible at all that he became a community organizer at that time -- in fact one of my best friends who graduated from U of C at the same time also worked as a community organizer in Chicago at the same time (don't ask his opinion of Obama). Aside from the fact that community organizing is a natural job to consider if you are interested in politics or social work and the like, the economy back then was terrible -- it was the height of the Reagan recession, so it's not as if graduates from even the best universities were being offered lucrative positions if they merely wanted to "cash in" on their degrees, to quote one particularly inept Obama campaign ad.

by Inky 2008-05-20 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

It's obvious that you haven't read hillaryis44.com for the hate, venom and vitriol expressed there.  Not enough?  Read any number of the recced diaries here.  Give me a break.  

by LtWorf 2008-05-20 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Oh, that's kind of you.  What if we disagree with whatever change is intended? Not that anyone can tell since it's so frikkin vague.  Obama brings no new ideas except perhaps fundraising.

What if we like Democratic policies as they've been practiced for years, even decades?  What if we see that what we need is NOT change but rather to push the Democratic agenda harder than it's ever been pushed?

by Montague 2008-05-20 11:18AM | 0 recs
To answer your question

I'll quote berkeleymike, who said it pretty well upthread:

Obama has articulated many many times what change he is looking for. He wants to change the mindset of foreign policy that says military force is the #1 option. He wants to change our health care system so that it is universal for children, and affordable for all with no insurance company denial of benefits. He wants to change our oil-first energy policy so that we move massively towards alternative energy. He wants to change the influence of corporate lobbyists over our government. Instead he wants and is succeeding in getting many new people involve in politics and fighting for these things (but this does NOT mean he doesn't want you to be part of the change also - he wants all of us involved). These are just a few changes that Obama is talking about over and over and over again.

If you disagree with having progressives and Democrats stand-up and fight for their values, to take pride in opposing a war (instead of voting to authorize it), to encourage a generation of voters to take part in the process... if you think this 'change' is something you disagree with... if you don't thing this is pushing a Democratic agenda (and doing it by changing the debate itself, by turning the rhetoric on it's head)... well then I feel a bit sorry for you... but you're still welcome to join us.

by Tatan 2008-05-20 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: To answer your question

You don't know me from Adam.  I've been progressive since McGovern.  I feel sorry for you that you have been bamboozled by Obama into thinking he is different or special.  I'm sure you will understand why I have decided to pass on your classy invitation.

by Montague 2008-05-20 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: To answer your question

I never suggested you weren't progressive... just that you're wrong in thinking that Senator Obama isn't.

by Tatan 2008-05-20 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: To answer your question

He's not conservative but he's not a flaming progressive, either.

by Montague 2008-05-20 12:28PM | 0 recs
And Hillary Clinton is?

I don't agree with your assessment that Obama is not progressive, but are you saying Clinton is more progressive than Obama?  After her Iraq war vote.

by nklein 2008-05-20 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: And Hillary Clinton is?

Good gawd, progressivism isn't related to just one issue.

by Montague 2008-05-20 04:54PM | 0 recs
No it isn't....

but I still have not seen any listing of how Clinton is more progressive than Obama.

by nklein 2008-05-20 10:14PM | 0 recs
Re: To answer your question

McGovern to me was the best presidential candidate we ever had. But given how many Democrats voted to authorize the war in Iraq, including Clinton, Kerry, and Edwards and every single democratic senator up for re-election except for Feingold, don't you think Obama making an anti-war speech at an anti-war rally was different and special?

by berkeleymike 2008-05-20 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama
But according to the DLC, via spokesman Harold Ford, the Democrats need to be more conservative.  Is that the kind of Democratic agenda that you want to push?  
I loved Bill Clinton, and was able to overcome my reservations about his relative conservatism, but I have never been happy about the DLC plans for controlling the party platform.  I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that Clinton is the DLC's candidate this year.
by haystax calhoun 2008-05-20 11:57AM | 0 recs
let's not forget donna brazile's comment:

... I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul. But, Paul, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.

by suzieg 2008-05-21 06:01AM | 0 recs
Re: let's not forget donna brazile's comment:

What's wrong with not just relying on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics? Don't you want to expand the Democratic coalition? Do you think we should be relying on any one demographic group?

I'm Hispanic, and I sure as heck hope the Dems are able to get a coalition broader than just my vote.

by Tatan 2008-05-21 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Also, IT'S A SLOGAN.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Plus, of course, almost every message from the Obama campaign AND ITS SUPPORTERS is that old-time Dems don't count or matter any more.

Let's see your link.  Show me where anyone speaking for the Obama campaign - which is part of your claim - has ever said that "old-time Dems don't count or matter any more," or retract your claim.

If "almost every message" from the campaign is saying that, it shouldn't take you very long.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

Last time I checked, Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd were illustrated in the dictionary next to "old-line Dems."

Both Senators have had the opportunity to work with their colleagues Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and both chose to endorse Obama.

Unless I missed something, the Obama campaign didn't reject those endorsements, nor those of tens of thousands of other "old-line" local party activists.

I have a dear family friend here who was a chair of the county Democratic party back in the early eighties, the lone Democrat on what was then an all-Republican town council as far back as the early seventies, and a staunch supporter of McGovern and JFK even before that. He's been an Obama supporter almost from Day 1, and if he ever felt rejected or unwanted by the campaign, he's certainly never said anything about it.

Is it possible you're allowing your biases to cause you to read in a message that was never intended to be conveyed?

Just sayin'...

by ipsos 2008-05-20 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

I think you're replying to the wrong comment.  I agree with you.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: From Senator Kennedy and Obama

I don't understand this.  Isn't part of progressive thinking that we must continually change?  We must progress.  In order to do that, we'll have to say that some things, even in our party, could be better.

by proseandpromise 2008-05-20 11:48AM | 0 recs
Donna Brazille: we don't need working class

whites, hispanics. This is a newer, younger party more urban.

by catfish1 2008-05-20 09:03AM | 0 recs
Poor Donna Brazile.

The most misquoted and demonized person in the democratic party.

She said we don't JUST rely on working class whites.  Never mentioned hispanics at all.  You probably know that, too.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 09:09AM | 0 recs
Also don't need Asians. Out with the old!

Out with the old hags who have volunteered and phone banked and worked for the party for years! It's a new party now!

by catfish1 2008-05-20 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Also don't need Asians. Out with the old!

Catfish, I note you didn't really respond when your misquoting of Brazile was corrected.

She clearly said, we don't need JUST working class whites, etc.  That the new demographics involves ADDING people to the party.  You seem to choose to view that as some kind of zero-sum competition within the party for influence and representation.  Is it hard to believe that by ADDING new demographics to a BIGGER-TENT Dem party and EXPANDING its base, the Obama campaign is not, actually, throwing out "old hags" or anyone else?  That it's building a bigger, more powerful, more inclusive party?

This is how I feel, at least.  I'd like to hear your response if you're still reading this thread.

by Koan 2008-05-20 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: She must have...she supported

All Democrats are wanted.  And, in general, we are unifying: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/20/1171 3/5722

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: She must have...she supported

LOL your diary does little to unify. It has boiled down to some more disrepectful comments about Hillary and her supporters, where you have chimed in too.

Just dreaming unity and self patting about it in blogs is meaningless.

by Sandeep 2008-05-20 07:43AM | 0 recs
I agree. If I see the word unity again...

I will blow lunch.

As if that word is going to make all things Kumbaya again.  This diary proves that wrong.

The wounds run very very deep.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

Well, some folks here are not ready to unify. But across the country, there is movement toward a unified party.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

Know what?  I don't frakking care if everything is Kumbaya again.  I don't frakking care if we all hold hands and sing together.  I don't frakking care if we all hate each other so damn much that we can barely stand the sight of one another.

What I care about is progress.  Progress that will happen if a Democrat is president, and won't happen if John McCain is.  What I care about is keeping another Scalia clone off the Court, is ending this ridiculous war, is getting our economy back on track.

I don't care how you feel; I only care how you vote.  And a vote for anyone who isn't the Democratic nominee for president in November is a stance against women's rights, against gay rights, against innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, against working families and middle-class families here in the US, and against a better world.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

really?  So people who prefer candidates who aren't in the Big Two and those candidates are progressive are smeared with that type of BushCo rhetoric you just posted?

by colebiancardi 2008-05-20 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

Yep.  There are only two people who have a reasonable chance at being President in January 2009: the Democratic nominee and the Republican nominee.  Any vote not for the Democratic nominee tacitly helps the Republican nominee.

If you believe in women's rights, if you believe in peace, if you believe in an economy that works for all Americans, you will vote for the candidate who could actually be President and who is not John McCain.  It's just that simple.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

lol.
that smacks of everything that our founding fathers WERE against (forcing people via threats and smearing them)

I don't know how old you are, but perhaps you need to look up on why people vote and how they can vote for someone else without being against progressive stances.

it is just that simple.  Blackmail and empty rhetoric only makes me laugh

by colebiancardi 2008-05-20 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree. If I see the word unity again...

I'm not making any threats.

I'm not the one who's going to appoint Scalia clones to SCOTUS.  I'm not the one who thinks the Bush economy is just peachy.  I'm not the one who wants perpetual war in Iraq.

John McCain is.

If anyone is making threats, it's him.

And the only two people who could be president in January 2009 are John McCain and whoever ends up being our nominee.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 09:05AM | 0 recs
You're not helping your cause

"I don't care how you feel; I only care how you vote."

Yeah, that makes me want to queue up behind you.

"Progress that will happen if a Democrat is president, and won't happen if John McCain is."

The above is actually not necessarily true at all.  Congress will remain in Dem hands, and progress has been made before even with Rethug presidents in office.  In fact sometimes the problem is when there is a Dem president and a Dem Congress.  Look what Bill Clinton talked a bunch of Democrats into doing.  A lot of people are pissed at NAFTA, the welfare reform bill, etc. (Before you ask, I think Hillary is more liberal than Bill is, and would make a superior president.)

Obama is no more progressive than Bill C.; in fact I think he is less so.  Therefore I'm not sure that progressive things would be enacted.

The Supreme Court is the one thing that would make a difference, although you must remember that Rethugs appointed some justices who became some of the most liberal.

Four years of McCain won't destroy us, and frankly I think that's a good thing, because Obama will lose a GE.

by Montague 2008-05-20 11:58AM | 0 recs
How can I help?

I don't think most hillary supporters liked kumbaya in the first place ;-) But I do like progressive places to be welcoming, and not hateful places like Redstate.

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-05-20 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: She must have...she supported

the only Democrats not wanted are the ones who say "Nominate my candidate or go to hell."  whether they be Obama supporters, Clinton supporters, or Mike Gravel supporters.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:30AM | 0 recs
Well, then...they you have it!

But I think there is more going on here than simply that - although your attitude toward the diarist is pretty clear and not at all "unifying".

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, then...they you have it!

okay, then.  she has every right to vote for mccain or just sit at home and do a crossword puzzle next november.  but i'm not going to stress about it too much.  there is an election to win.  if some folks jump ship, there isn't too much that can be done about that.  but i'm not going to start arguing that hillary should get the nomination just to satisfy a few sadsacks on mydd.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:43AM | 0 recs
I don't think that's the point of this...

diary.  It's really about what the "New" Democratic Party represents...and Shazone says she doesn't know  so she won't be giving her support to something that is unknown.  Obama seems to be a figurehead for this frustration, not the frustration itself.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think that's the point of this...

ok, but this diary is not an attempt at reconciliation.  it is also not an attempt to spark a discussion about what the future of the party is.  it is a "goodbye cruel world" diary (as one other poster puts it) which is supposed to...what?...make other clinton supporters question obama, or maybe make obama supporters rethink their choice?

last week was "sexism diary" week at mydd and in none of those diaries was there any attempt to have a discussion.  it was all recriminations against obama supporters and retorts of "you'll never understand", which is a very effective way to stop a discussion if one accidentally breaks out.

this week seems so far to be the week of "i'm leaving" diaries.  and again, there is no call to discussion and the possibility of reconciliation is not offered.  that is well within the prerogative of the diarist, but then i'm not going to try to talk them down.  that's not my job (good thing, because i'm terrible at it).

so, if you want to leave the democratic party.  i say, good luck.  maybe you can move to vermont and vote for bernie sanders as an independent.  minnesota also has a strong tradition of third parties.

makes me think of that line by Utah Phillips:

"Banker, boss and bureaucrat thought me a willing tool/
I voted Democratic and paid the Church its due/
Now all those swine will have to find/
Some other chump to screw."

if this is the point you've come to, good luck.  and save a little whiskey for me.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think that's the point of this...

This diary is just an attention whore post.

"LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!  I'M HAVING A TEMPER TANTRUM OVER HERE AND NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION!!!!11!11!11!!  LOOK AT ME!"

by NJIndependent 2008-05-20 09:42AM | 0 recs
If she doesn't know, then she hasn't been listenin

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/14/1622 9/3741

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-05-20 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, then...they you have it!

Are you familiar with the diarist's comment history here? Believe me, there's nothing "more" going on here other than the fact that some people are extremely unpleasant, be it in real life or as their adopted online personae.

There are still too many folks here who espouse nothing but negativity, predictions of doom, personal criticism, etc. But when they get rebuked for it--repeatedly--they start navel-gazing and proclaim how "Democrats" have abandoned them? Huh?

To those people I say, no, Democrats haven't abandoned you. You're just not very nice online and people don't want anything to do with you. Monitor your own behavior before you decry your unjust ostracism.

As for Obama's mailers, what do you expect? Stop conflating "change in Washington" with "hating old people." This diary (and just about every other comment from this diarist) reads like a very angry, bitter diatribe against youth in general. I almost expect it to demand that those damned kids get off her lawn.

It doesn't have to be that way. Obama's message isn't about the "kidz," even if college students have indeed embraced him. But if a person wants to turn this into generational warfare, that's on them.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 07:53AM | 0 recs
Where does it say "hating old people"?

"In the bigger scheme of things I am "yesterday", old news, past my prime."

Although that is an issue that is being discussed, too.  But not here.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:56AM | 0 recs
quibblin'

Okay, stop conflating "change in washington" with "you are 'yesterday, old news, past your prime'".

Thank god you weren't around for Bill Clinton in 92.  His campaign theme had the reframe "Yesterday's gone.  Yesterday's gone."

by Jess81 2008-05-20 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: quibblin'

Dont stop, thinking about tomorrow,
Dont stop, itll soon be here,
Itll be, better than before,
Yesterdays gone, yesterdays gone.

Yeah, you're right diarist and company!

I DO seem to remember Hillary smiling and boppin' along to this Fleetwood Mac diddy...almost as though they weren't talking about euthanizing old folks.  Good thing you can see through the bullshit!

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-20 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Where does it say "hating old

First of all, this diarist and many others repeatedly call us "teenagers" and other equally condescending and dismissive youth-related terms. (Remember campskunk stating that he should be getting paid "babysitting money"?) So the past comment history shows a rather jaundiced view of age as it relates to this primary.

As for the diary itself, how does one not see the inherent "Obama/Obama supporters have no use for old people" tripe?

"The Obama Campaign is about a new generation of leadership....we will turn the page on the old politics of misrepresentation, distortion and division..." - a strange message from Senator Kennedy who is one of the oldest parts of those old politics.  

And of course, the line you quoted. That attitude permeates this website (I can only imagine how bad it is at hillaryis44 or noquarter). For some reason, even though every non-incumbent candidate runs on a message of change, certain Hillary supporters have internalized Obama's message to mean that he doesn't need or want older Democrats around.

I wonder if some of them aren't playing his 2004 DNC speech backward to hear if he says, "Old Democrats suck. Your grandkids are the only person I care about."

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 08:14AM | 0 recs
Sorry - I'm dense this morning...

The part you cite is a quote from an Obama mailer...not something the diarist said.  So if it means "hating old people", isn't that the Obama message?

"The Obama Campaign is about a new generation of leadership....we will turn the page on the old politics of misrepresentation, distortion and division..." - a strange message from Senator Kennedy who is one of the oldest parts of those old politics.  

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry - I'm dense this morning...

No, the fact that she focused on that one phrase in the entire mailer, and tried to contradict it by pointing out Kennedy's age.

However, after having read your responses downthread, in which you also embrace the obnoxious "kidz" meme, I don't really feel like continuing this dialogue with you.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 08:31AM | 0 recs
by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:38AM | 0 recs
Johnny G nails it again.

Obama has gained twelve points on Hillary since the beginning of May in today's Gallup poll.  The Dems are uniting, some right away, some later, some never.  Whatever.  We will crush doddering old man McCain in November.  Not since Bob Dole have the repugs run such a pitiful candidate.  

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-05-20 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: She must have...she supported

I for one am shocked at the way Mike Gravel has been treated in this primary.  

There's only one person to blame for it all:  Dennis Kucinich.  

If he gets the nomination, I swear I'll burn my Democratic registration card and never look back.  

In fact, I will devote the rest of my life to destroying democracy in America and the world.  

I will sow chaos wherever I go. I will burn farms, sow fields with salt, and leave gum under table at restaurants.  I will push all of the buttons on elevators and then run out.

My wrath will be terrible to behold.

by Captain Bathrobe 2008-05-20 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: So in all that activism...

Frankly, I call bullshit.  There's no way that people who have participated in pro-choice rallies, anti-war rallies, etc. would even think of voting for McCain, which is what the diarist is constantly trying to talk other people into.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:28AM | 0 recs
I'm inclined to agree

I really don't get the hatred of Obama.  I get not supporting him and fighting for Hillary but I'm suspect of those whose motive is to rage against Obama and then declare they are leaving because he's  winning the primary.

I don't buy it.

by lollydee 2008-05-20 07:30AM | 0 recs
This diary doesn't say anything about

hating Obama.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:56AM | 0 recs
It only took a click or two

To figure it out.  There is clearly not just Pro-Hillary stuff going on, it's very Anti-Obama.

by lollydee 2008-05-20 09:08AM | 0 recs
I'm curious about something....

Do you really investigate every past post and comment from someone before commenting yourself?  I don't.  I focus on the conversation at hand.  Frankly - it never occurred to me to parse past opinions.  But I've read comments like yours before - from others here.  It kinda bothers me a bit.  I can't say why, exactly - but it does.  Perhaps because it doesn't allow for growth or a change of opinion or mind.  It locks someone into a set way of thinking.  I read peoples opinions for new ideas, new ways of thinking.  I'm not looking for an echo chamber.  I gravitate here because I'm more likely to find less vitriol regarding the nomination process - but I read everyone's opinion - even if it doesn't exactly jive with mine.  I just don't investigate them.  Isn't that very time consuming?  

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-05-20 09:42PM | 0 recs
No

But how I got here was by being directed at the horrific postings over at hillaryis44.com and then finding several posts from this user directing everyone to come over to mydd.com and rate her diaries, with no rebuttal on some of the blatantly racist and vile things that were being said.  

I don't research commenter's, but I question anyone who would participate in that sort of forum.  

by lollydee 2008-05-21 09:38AM | 0 recs
I think I'm with you.

This isn't like we're left with a choice between two very similar candidates here, both with progressive values. We haven't had this stark an election since McGovern ran against Nixon.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-20 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I think I'm with you.

Right.

Nader in 2000 I got.  Nobody saw how bad Bush would be, Gore was running to the right, and Bill Clinton hadn't lived up to his promise.

Didn't vote for him, but I knew why people were.

And I know why people are threatening to bolt now, but it's got nothing to do with politics and everything to do with vengeance.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: I think I'm with you.

Or, dare I say "that which must not be named" the arrogance of a black man who is both intellectual, caring, and confident.

by lollydee 2008-05-20 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I think I'm with you.

Well when you hear "I've been voting Democratic since 1964, but not this time" you have to wonder, well, what's different about this time?  Centrist candidate beats centrist candidate, well, no - that's happened before.  Woman runs unsuccessfully?  No, that too.  The GOP candidate is just so appealing?  Don't think that applies in this case.

After a while you start running out of reasonable alternatives.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:51AM | 0 recs
Exactly. n/t

by lollydee 2008-05-20 08:02AM | 0 recs
what i get from all that is vengeance

... not racism. but that's me.  both are bad things of course.

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-05-20 09:52AM | 0 recs
Wow - you're really straying off

base now.  There is nothing like that in this diary.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:57AM | 0 recs
It has nothing to do with vengeance....

and everything to do with avoiding another democratic heartbreak in the fall. The people who are bolting now can see the writing on the wall and is just facing what they think is coming. They went through with Gore & Kerry. It's just that this year, should Obama be the nominee, they'll be checking out earlier.

by cosbo 2008-05-20 08:37AM | 0 recs
Big fighters like their candidate, huh?

"I think Obama will lose, and my candidate didn't win, so I'm going to take my toys and go home."

What a spineless, vindictive way to be. I just checked my sympathy reserves, and it seems they're empty.

by bookish 2008-05-20 09:05AM | 0 recs
Everybody deals with heartbreak in their

own way. Who are we to judge. There are many democrats who have no confidence in Obama to be a good president much less win the GE. Why should they expend effort for someone they don't believe in. I know a democrat here in my office that she and her four grown sons are staying in the fall.  In her words, she has no confidence in Obama to be her leader and she does not like McCain. Her four grown sons are the same. Her boyfriend, a democrat, is voting for McCain.

Fact is, the grownups in the democratic party are not excited about Obama. Why force feeling something they don't feel.

by cosbo 2008-05-20 09:28AM | 0 recs
You can make all the implications

you want about grownups, but unless you know who you're talking to, then you're shooting in the dark.

Those who have no confidence in Obama, never had any because they were unnaturally wed to their own candidate from the point that they got on board. There's a percentage of folks whose minds would never have been swayed, and it's not worth the time nor effort to try to convince them otherwise. If one wants to not vote or vote against the Democratic nominee, then I have nothing to say to them, and there's nothing I could do about it anyway.

by bookish 2008-05-20 09:43AM | 0 recs
The problem is not the people...

blogging. All 200,000 of us don't mean crap in the end. The 100 million voters who didn't vote in the primaries will be the one choosing the president.  It was up to us, the ones paying attention, to figure who would be acceptable to a majority of them. So far I'm not optimistic.

by cosbo 2008-05-20 10:13AM | 0 recs
I don't see how you can be optimistic

with such a serious case of egomania.

WTF? So we're not looking for the candidate that appeals to us, but instead we're looking for the candidate that appeals to everyone else? We're the gatekeepers, as it were?

Again, WTF?

by bookish 2008-05-20 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: It has nothing to do with vengeance....

That rationale is DEFINITELY the prize pig in the list of disengenuous reasons given.

"I believe Obama can't win.  Therefore I'm going to make sure he doesn't."

?

And these are people who claim to be lifelong democrats.  Who presumably lived through Mondale.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: It has nothing to do with vengeance....

Huh?

So you are claiming that to avoid living through another democratic heartbreak in the fall, their choice is not to vote democratic?

That makes no sense.  Wouldn't that kind of guarantee another democratic heartbreak?

by TexH 2008-05-20 09:38AM | 0 recs
Only if you live under the idiotic

impression that it's us  here on the blogs who will actually choose the president.

by cosbo 2008-05-20 10:15AM | 0 recs
I think she said she will support Clinton...

there is no mention of McCain in this diary.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: I think she said she will support Clinton...

Read her posting history.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I think she said she will support Clinton...

Here we go. Ignore this diary and its point of view and let's go for the character assassination. Why deal with the message when you can shoot the messenger. This is such an old and sad Obama campaign ploy.

by linfar 2008-05-20 09:00AM | 0 recs
There are only two roads

You support Obama when he becomes the nominee, which is what Hillary will ask you to do very soon, or you are supporting McCain. Every non-vote for Obama is a vote for McCain.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-20 07:51AM | 0 recs
i disagree...

to not vote generally helps the person who is leading the election.  since the presidential race is determined state by state, who not voting helps depends on where you live.  if you vote in new york or california, not voting will help the democrats.  if you vote in florida, not voting helps the republicans.  the people who fail to vote tend to be contrarian voters (voting against the favorite).  i'm not at all sure why this is, but it is based on the post-election "research" i've done in the races i worked on.

it's hard to get all worked up over this kind of angst because it is clearly a reaction to the realization that hillary won't be the democratic nominee.  and that is tough on some people.  i think we need to be absolutely clear-eyed about this: we will lose some people, who may or may not wind up supporting barack, but our focus is better spent on those voters who haven't made a decision in the presidential race because there are so many more of them than people like this diarist, who have.  we aren't going to convince people like this diarist, so let's not spend too much time trying to convince her to change her mind...

by bored now 2008-05-20 08:08AM | 0 recs
Welll..I think there is something far deeper

going on in this diary.  She says she supports and will continue to support Senator Clinton.

BUT, she is leaving the Democratic Party.  That has long term implications that will impact not just Barack Obama, but other Dem candidates, too.

I don't see this as a threat.  I see it as a fact.  And - perhaps - the "New" Democratic Party can do without these former Dems - or maybe they can't.

The fallout from this year may not be as rosy as many would like to think it.

Who knows, maybe a third party will eventually get started with roots from this year's primary (and that is NOT a threat - just an observation?  These disenfranchised Dems have to go somewhere and it doesn't sound like the Republican Party is a match).

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Welll..I think there is something far deeper

What disenfranchised dems are you referring to that would ever hope to form a third party and what would the party platform be?

by haystax calhoun 2008-05-20 11:42AM | 0 recs
it's the natural cycle of things...

it's one of the most difficult lessons that people learn after being involved in politics for a time.  the world will continue without you.  someone will pick up the slack.  change will occur after you've gone.

to me, the diarist is simply going through the natural process that occurs when one is invested heavily on the losing side.  in the first presidential campaign i worked, i was stunned to find a ton of people who had simply dropped out of the world living (and thriving) in iowa.  i learned over time (decades) that they came thinking they would leave it all behind only to find that they could live their ideals (with little interference) in a place they thought was the end of the world.

this is only the most dramatic example of this process.  so i'm far less threatened by the fare thee well of the diarist because i understand it.  as always, i applaud the contributions the diarist made to democratic politics without concluding that we can't go on without her.  i, too, will leave the democratic realm at some point in my life, probably after an exhausting loss.  and someone will take my place.  as it should be.  it reality, the diarist leaving the political field of battle makes room for someone new, with fresh ideas, to step into her place.  and that's something we should celebrate...

by bored now 2008-05-20 02:04PM | 0 recs
Exactly

This is just a recent comment from the diarist..

we're voting against Obama.  Big difference.

Sometimes it's better to stick with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

Barack Obama is not ready for primetime - and he knew that - BUT his ego drove him to run for POTUS.  George W. Bush did the same thing and people said, "but he's such a nice young man".

Well.....

John McCain is scary - we will all agree to that.  But this nation survived 8 years with the dumbest individual possible as POTUS, we can survive 4 years of John McCain.  Not so sure about 4 years of BO.

There are many more...it was never about wanting to be a part of the Democrat party.  It was about causing division..Do not fall for it.

by hootie4170 2008-05-20 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly

Good catch.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-20 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly

The only person interested in promoting division here is you, hootie. You do it on every Hillary diary. The idea of listening to other people and actually thinking about their experiences and their point of view is something you seem to find unbearable--so you discount it.

by linfar 2008-05-20 08:58AM | 0 recs
I've read your comments on Hillary is44.org

...And I have to say, divisive wise, I think those comments would win.  Personally, as a black woman the racial undertones that go on over there would make Hillary herself cringe.  I can't imagine she is anything other than embarrassed by what goes on over there.

by lollydee 2008-05-20 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I've read your comments on Hillary is44.org

Undertones? Yesterday I saw this comment about Michelle Obama: "I turn on MSNBC and they have that greasy looking nubian queen on and the first words out of her fucking mouth are, 'If it's taken away from Bo they'll be race riots in the street.'" Nobody said boo in response.  It is foul and getting fouler over there.

by jere7my 2008-05-20 09:25AM | 0 recs
It's horrible, I know.

And I know that if Hillary were to read it she would be completely and utterly horrified.  That's the irony, really.

by lollydee 2008-05-20 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly

You are not even worthy of a response....

by hootie4170 2008-05-20 11:14AM | 0 recs
Two questions

1. Where are you going?

2. Will you be in a better position to "support Hillary" when you get there?

by Sam Wise Gingy 2008-05-20 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: So in all that activism...

Losing when the game was played without cheating is is cool.

But losing after every dirty tactics of the Obamanians plus the sexist mass media with strong approval from their messiah is not acceptable.

... Good luck on your journey.

... God bless America!  Not GD America.

by SHIBAM8P 2008-05-20 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

No one's told you to get out.  

I've supported candidates in primaries who lost. Then I went on to support the nominee in the general election.

No one's disenfranchising the base of the party, certainly not party leaders.  Voters picked the nominee, with a majority of women under 65 voting for Obama.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

No, I've seen it.  It goes like this:

Shazone: I'm voting for McCain!
Someone else: k' bye.

That's what this is about.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I too have supported many candidates in many democratic primaries who ultimately lost the nomination (in fact most since 1972).  I then turned around and supported the ultimate democrat nominee in the general election.  

But, to state with respect to Obama  that "the voters picked the nominee" ignores the facts.

Neither Obama nor Clinton won enough votes in the primaries to get enough pledged delegates to win the  nomination.  So, the "voters"  have not, and apparently will not, "pick" the nominee, who ever it winds up being.  

Can't we all just acknowledge that it is the super delegates who are giving Obama the nomination, if they in fact do so?

by wdAUS 2008-05-20 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Neither achieved 2025 pledged delegates, correct.  After today, Obama will have secured the majority of the pledged delegates; doesn't that count for something?  Personally, I would prefer the supers reflect the results of the pledged contest.

by jere7my 2008-05-20 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb
I agree. It does count for something; it counts for a lot. But posters who make such claims as the "voters have picked" their candidate only antagonize other posters with false claims.

I, for one, want the super delegates to do what is best for the party in defeating McCain in November.

Under the rules, getting a majority of the pledged delegates means just that, it does not ensure a nomination. It also serves as an excellent argument to gather support from additional super delegates. So, yes, it counts for a lot but it isn't everything under the rules.

The very rules that many Obama supporters cite to exclude MI and FL votes and voters also allow the the party to count FL and MI if it chooses to do so. Those same rules also require a candidate to get a majority of delegates, including super delegates. Let's all just follow all the rules ans see what happens.
by wdAUS 2008-05-20 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Agreed.

by jere7my 2008-05-20 11:33AM | 0 recs
Bizarre

How are people's fundamental beliefs so shaken up by anonymous commenters on political blogs?

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Bizarre

Frightening, aint it?  When the back and forth on the blogs gets to be too much, know what I do?

Close the laptop, and walk away.  I weed the back yard.  Wash my car.  Watch my kid's little league games.  Kiss my girlfriend.  Call my parents and tell them I love them.  Play a little guitar.  I paint.  Read a book.

Why some people let strangers on the intertubes rattle their beliefs is a mystery to me.  I liken comments and diaries here to food.  If they're tasty, I chew on them, digest them (keeping vital nutrients for myself) and crap out the rest.  If I don't care for the dish, I don't eat it.  It's really that simple.

by fogiv 2008-05-20 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

How is the above different than this?  And every other post you've been making for the past month?

"We're not going to vote FOR McCain... (1.11 / 9)

we're voting against Obama.  Big difference.

Sometimes it's better to stick with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

Barack Obama is not ready for primetime - and he knew that - BUT his ego drove him to run for POTUS.  George W. Bush did the same thing and people said, "but he's such a nice young man".

Well.....

John McCain is scary - we will all agree to that.  But this nation survived 8 years with the dumbest individual possible as POTUS, we can survive 4 years of John McCain.  Not so sure about 4 years of BO.

by Shazone on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:53:15 AM EST "

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:25AM | 0 recs
Shazone.

Shazone's been encouraging people to ditch the party and vote McCain for quite some time.  When he/she claimed that "we can survive 4 years of John McCain, not so sure about 4 years of BO" I became certain he/she was a Republican troll.

Which makes the rec list here, of course.

by Shem 2008-05-20 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I don't get it. I have done all those things for candidates who didn't win and accepted it. One thing I didn't do was keep going on and on about the presumptive nominee and my candidate after it was over. And because I didn't, no one got upset with me or kept telling me to give up (because I knew I had to anyway). I've been through many election cycles and have never seen this level of hanging on. So I truly think you should look at how you may have created a backlash by the way you have handled the ending days of the primary.

by Becky G 2008-05-20 07:25AM | 0 recs
how many of them hung on this long?

hillary's backers are Fuming!

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-05-20 09:55AM | 0 recs
yup
and it is all really about old politics.  The Kidz are being had and they don't even know it.  
Seriously, do you really think Kennedy believes the crap he said in that message?
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: yup

Oh, it's the kidz.  Like this 50 year old women.

Look at the polls - The only demographic that Clinton has on her side are women over 50 - and her number there is only 52% - hardly overwhelming.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107407/Obama- Surge-Fairly-BroadBased.aspx

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:28AM | 0 recs
I laughed about the line from Kennedy.

I have two wonderful kids who are 31 and 29 - when they were 25 they loved us but really didn't want to hear advice from us.  Now that they're (even) a few years older, they are much more in tune with their Dad and me.

The "New Democratic Party" is made up of 75 year old men pulling the chains of 25 year old kidz.

Too bad it will be a few years before they realize how they have been played.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I laughed about the line from Kennedy.

My college-aged daughter doesn't have her chain pulled by anyone, let along a 75 year old man. She was raised to think for herself. And she does.

This is another version of "Obama voters are dupes," an argument that's so old, it's moldy.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:32AM | 0 recs
here is another

condescending know-it-all.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I laughed about the line from Kennedy.

Sorry, but the idea of puppet-master Ted Kennedy (as well as just about every progressive there is) pulling the strings on mainline democrats for god-know-what nefarious purpose is percolating in your imagination is a little, I don't know what the word is but it's ripe for parody.

You've consistently misunderstood the appeal of Barack Obama - as well as the limits of it.  The whole idea of a cult is incredibly silly; especially since Obama voters tend to be much more likely than Clinton voters to say they'll support the democratic nominee no matter who they are.  But you're getting hung up on slogans.

I mean, when you start seeing "It's Obama or Tear It UP!" diaries you might begin to understand why some of us find this so bizarre.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I laughed about the line from Kennedy.

One has to wonder if the me, me, me, generation ever stops to ponder the fact that they have now turned into THEIR PARENTS!

by venician 2008-05-20 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm 25

cough, cough

that would be you're, not your

by colebiancardi 2008-05-20 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: That's your best counter argument

I thought it was ironic, considering your statement about what your parents said.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-20 11:08AM | 0 recs
old white guys for Barack...lol
yeah, and the funniest part is that he is a baby boomer anyway.  We have had boomer presidents since 1992, what new generation is Kennedy talking about.
It is all so messianic.
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-20 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: old white guys for Barack...lol

You're only jealous that Hilary could never rise to the level of messiah.

And this 47-year-old "boy" has been around the block more than once. If anyone pulling my chain, it's the ever-slippery, ever dissembling, super slick Clintons.

Been there. Done that. Time for the new.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-20 04:25PM | 0 recs
heh

so condescending.  I love it.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: yup

I'm 61 and been in politics a long time. I'm being had? Warren Buffett is being had? Sen. Byrd is being had? Sam Nunn is being had?

by Becky G 2008-05-20 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: yup

Bravo - thank you so much.  The original comment was incredibly insulting to many members of my family.

by Pat Flatley 2008-05-20 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: yup

Your condescension is completely inappropriate.  Please show respect for your fellow Democrats, and do not demean their choice even if you disagree with it.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

JFK and Bill Clinton also said they were the new generation of leadership. This is not an unusual theme in politics. It might not appeal to you but it's hardly something new or anything nasty.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
GOP trolls are all over

by highgrade 2008-05-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: GOP trolls are all over

like so many cigarette butts at the beach.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: GOP trolls are all over

like stink on shit.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 07:54AM | 0 recs
like white on rice

I can say that, I am white.  

by KLRinLA 2008-05-20 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Yeah, there is a changing of the guard. You're right. The power structure surround the Clintons will be forced to give way.

But I don't understand why that forces you to leave the Democratic party. Changes in power players happen all the time. It's going to be very exciting to see who Barack Obama brings into his administration. And look at the way he's energized Democrats in new states and places.

I guess I can understand if you feel demoralized and don't feel like working with the new folks. But many of them are wonderful, committed activists. And many of them aren't so different from the Clinton people. It seems like an extreme response to a situation full of promise and excitement.

by drmark 2008-05-20 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"Yeah, there is a changing of the guard. You're right. The power structure surround the Clintons will be forced to give way."

the diarist is not part of the "power structure" but rather a vital part of the grassroots volunteers with years of experience...
who will replace these volunteers?  the bloggers?

by jentwisl 2008-05-20 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

There are 1.5million people who have contributed to Barack Obama's campaign... more than any other campaign ever... and we're only in the primary. I'm sure a good chunk of them would be willing to volunteer.

by Tatan 2008-05-20 09:31AM | 0 recs
Well then, Shazone is right.

You don't want or need her.  I imagine she is very relieved to see your confirmation of her conclusion.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 09:41AM | 0 recs
Oh please - the power

structure is in Sen. Obama's camp.  I'm beginning to think the power structure was pissed when Bill became president and won again.

This story isn't simple.  I've said before:  Sen. Obama knows how to play in Illinois and Chicago politics.  He is a politician.  A new one in DC, but a politician.  And he ain't bucking any power structure - look at Wall Street donors.  I will vote for him should he be on ticket - I am a Democrat.

by Xanthe 2008-05-20 10:59AM | 0 recs
yes and no

Sen. Obama will not be beholden to special interests in the same way as the Clintons because he has miraculously been able to finance his campaign through relatively small Internet donations.

I can already sense your response - the money came from powerful people, yada yada. But there is a dramatic difference in degree. And as a result he at least has a chance of crafting policies that are less beholden to big donors. I'm not saying he will. But it will be fun to see him try.

More than anything else, I really thing Bill Clinton was morally compromised by his need to raise huge sums of money to combat a much better funded Republican machine. He was a master at it, but it took a disproportionate amount of time and energy and involved him with disgusting characters like Dick Morris. The Internet has ushered in a whole new era where you can finance a campaign without selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom. Barack Obama has tapped into this much more than the Clintons who still rely on old models.

by drmark 2008-05-20 11:41AM | 0 recs
And I wish him well in that

response.  Let's see how he handles the trade matters, for instance - Goolsby notwithstanding.

But everytime I turn on the tv, some pol from DC is lecturing me.  

Special interests?  Coal industry in Illinois?

Wish him well because he will affect my life.  But I don't see him in the same light many of his supporters do.  Nope - a new politician is in town.

by Xanthe 2008-05-20 12:03PM | 0 recs
Yeah, there's no way he's going to be . . .

able to change Washington in one feel swoop. But like I said, let's see him try. Anything's gotta be better than the current morass.

by drmark 2008-05-20 12:32PM | 0 recs
You mean morass or ? .

sorry - couldn't resist.  But the Republicans are weaker so they may have to reach out - they may be in building mode for future but for now - I think they have to reach out.  And this is not due to Obama as much as the man they chose to lead their party.  Life is funny.

by Xanthe 2008-05-20 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb
The democratic party has not done right by Hillary. It is just that simple.
When Ferraro and Shazone say Enough--you outta listen instead of argue. A great injustice has been done here, and democrats do not take injustice lying down. They fight.
by linfar 2008-05-20 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"The great injustice" done to Clinton by "the party" is that Obama won more delegates fair and square.

How dare those voters pick some other nominee?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 07:33AM | 0 recs
This campaign and the "New" Democratic

Party has kicked a lot of people to the curb.  This today from Salon....

"The legions of pseudonym-laden online posters who follow in political punditry's wake are less restrained in describing the shortcomings of Sen. Clinton's Appalachian supporters. They suggest it has to do with her voters being racist, toothless, shoeless, and prone to marrying their cousins. In short, they characterize these "special" Democrats in much the same terms they used in quieter times to describe Republicans......

However, the unnerving truth for the erstwhile party of Jefferson may be that Appalachia, for all its legend and lore, is not that different politically from the rest of the small-town and rural parts of the country where 60 million of us live. And that could mean trouble for the fall."

A double and triple whammy, I predict!!

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:33AM | 0 recs
Young weakling bullies

oh and there was this one from inside my own head:

"Clinton supporters say that Obama can only win the limp-wristed effete eggheads that drive Priuses and can hardly get out of bed in the morning because of their own moral shortcomings.  Anyone with any vigor or sense of right and wrong has already voted for Hillary and will not suffer these young, weak eggheads.  But these weaklings inhabit vast tracts of urban and inner-ring urban areas riding their pitiful little bikes to work like the guy in "Forty Year-Old Virgin".  But the Democratic party needs these silly little teenagers if they hope to win in the fall.  How will Hillary win them back?"

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:39AM | 0 recs
yup, this whole Obama movement

seems more about hate and division than anything else.  

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-20 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: yup, this whole Obama movement

Teresas past comments:
Seems she's about hate herself!

or how about a Barack Obama (none / 0)
shoe shine kit so you can get all spiffy before your business meeting?
I am sure that would amuse everyone.

This typical PA White Person will be voting for Hillary.
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:52:15 AM EST

yes, it might be funny if they have (none / 0)
one of Obama stealing a TV too. They could call it Barry the Looter and it would have a tiny TV you could watch in the airport in between flights.
ha ha ha

This typical PA White Person will be voting for Hillary.
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:43:54 AM

by venician 2008-05-20 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"Democrats do not take injustice lying down."  Have you been paying attention for the past eight years?

By the way, this is why Obama is doing so well in the first place.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

We know.  For fanclub-type democrats like you, Shazone, and others, there is not outcome other than a victory by Hillary Clinton that could possibly be seen as legitimate.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:39AM | 0 recs
Get over yourself

Obama has more delegates.  That's not an injustice.  This need to turn politics into some personal affront is so childish.

by JJE 2008-05-20 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Injustice?  Where is the injustice?  Barack Obama has won more votes in delegate contests, more delegates, and more states.

In what way could the Democratic Party have done right by Hillary?  Seriously.  You're going to make a claim like that, you're going to have to back it up.  What could the Party have done in order to "do right by Hillary" while maintaining a fair system in which all candidates could compete?  What should they have done differently?  What changes was Sen. Clinton calling for from the Party at the beginning of the campaign that she did not receive?

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:52AM | 0 recs
Nobody kicked you to the curb,

or asked you to leave.

Why do you think "change" applies to you? If you're a Democrat you've been fighting for "change" all of your life. Now we're going to go get us some.

I'm curious. Really. Why do you think that because your candidate lost, that the party has thrown you, or her for that matter, out.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-20 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked

I agree.  At 46, Obama is only three years younger than me, but he is pretending to be more youthful than he is, and his appeal to college students creates that illusion.

I don't "like" him in that he has a certain "smugness" and I do not think he has enough experience to be President.

The Dems are betting the farm that college students get out and vote in November. But they are losing a lot of older voters, longtime Democrats, who just don't "get" the Obama thing.

It no longer seems like my party, either. It is like the show I liked on TV has been replaced with American Idol (which I don't watch).

by WolfmanJack 2008-05-20 07:31AM | 0 recs
No facts back you up

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked

You have to realize you're talking about voters here.  Most of us aren't terribly calculating, nor are we "betting the farm" - we just thing Barack Obama is a better candidate and presidential prospect than Hillary Clinton.

The party is ratifying our choice.

by Jess81 2008-05-20 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked

Obama is young enough to be my son. OK by me.

by Becky G 2008-05-20 08:05AM | 0 recs
Um... what?

but he is pretending to be more youthful than he is

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate?

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-20 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked
The latest national numbers from Gallup show some startling movement towards Obama among Dems who have been among Hillary's most reliable supporters.
It finds that Obama is now tied with Hillary among whites (47%-47%); leads her among women (49%-46%); edges her among Dems with a high school graduate or less (46%-47%); and leads her among Hispanics (51%-44%).
Those groups, obviously, have been the bedrock of Hillary's candidacy. The only major demographic group that Hillary gets 51% or more of are women aged 50 and older.
These numbers suggest that Obama's support is broadening daily, and that the party's rank and file -- in addition to its institutional players -- appear to be coalescing behind him.
by venician 2008-05-20 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked

If you're going to waste your vote for the American president on personality politics I really think you should stay home this fall.

Seriously.  See ya.

by BlueInBoston 2008-05-20 05:53PM | 0 recs
I have noticed...

...that the Obama supporters are very negative and divisive when they  talk to Clinton supporters.  That is sad.  I think you should have been respected and valued as a loyal Democrat.

by Nancy Kallitechnis 2008-05-20 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

She isn't a loyal Democrat.  Loyal Democrats vote for the Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party.

Also, what value does she have?  She takes her ball and goes home when things don't go her way.  People like that are more trouble then they are worth.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-20 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

No one should be forced to vote against their conscience.

"People like that are more trouble than they are worth"......nice.  No wonder she feels the way she does.

by mady 2008-05-20 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

look, if she's going to say "nominate Clinton or else."  obama supporters, and the rest of the democratic party, are well within their bounds to say "the nomination process is over, clinton lost, so i guess we'll take 'or else'."

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

I don't think not being able to vote in this election necessarily translates to a lifetime of not voting Democratic.  It's important to keep the door open.  

by mady 2008-05-20 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

No one is forcing her to do anything.  If I had that much power over her I would make her pay my car loan instead of vote for Obama.

No wonder she feels the way she does.

The poor thing got her feelings hurt in a political argument.  She should stick to Hello Kitty blogs if her feelings are that fragile.

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-20 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

Are you an Obama supporter as I am?  Why so incredibly pissy?  I don't think that is the desired tone for this campaign, if it were I would not be part of it.

by mady 2008-05-20 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

I am an Obama supporter.

Calling people on their bullshit isn't being pissy.  If the diarist had written a thoughtful diary about why she was thinking about not voting for Obama then I would have responded in kind.  That didn't happen.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-20 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

Mady, you must be unfamiliar with this diarist's comment history.

Here's a sample:

I would also like to add that one other reason my husband and I will never vote for BO...he's a fraud.  And the fact that BO supporters are not willing to look at the empty suit that he is tells us that the Dem. Party and (god forbid) this nation is in for a very tough time.

But we survived 8 years of Bush.  Surely we will survive 4 years of McCain.


http://aunt-martha.mydd.com/comments/200 8/3/31/172254/252/103#103

or this treasure:

Me to Shazone: But you are going to take it out on anyone who disagrees with you or supports Obama. We are not the enemy. There are better ways to go about this.

her response:
But you are the enemy.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/2/23 1828/9287/25#25

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

In other words, don't waste your time trying to be gracious or conciliatory. You won't win any points with her, rest assured.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

I figure I represent my candidate and there is no harm in being decent.

by mady 2008-05-20 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

I feel the same way. But trying to be courteous and kind to others gets a bit pointless when the efforts are smacked back in your face. Some people just really like being angry.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-20 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

That I agree with, and somehow the anonymity of blogs seems to feed that.  Sometimes I wish we were all more exposed so that shield of no one knows who I am so I can say anything, was gone.

by mady 2008-05-20 08:58AM | 0 recs
And there's plenty more and worse

where that came from.

I had my share of exchanges with her, and not a one of them was fun or productive-just a lot of sputtering invective and threats of GBCW being tossed about. She's been building to this for a long, long time. She's just come to the realization that her candidate won't win, and she's decided to finally follow through.

I'm sure we'll see a lot of attrition in November, probably more than in past elections. But, we have attrition every presidential election when people are frustrated by backing a losing candidate. Fortunately, we've had too many years of Bush, and it's not going to be the sole support of Dems that puts Obama in the White House in November, so if we lose a few more than normal, that's just the way it will be.

by bookish 2008-05-20 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

What do you mean "forced"? How could anyone force another person to vote a certain way? There is no way.

by Becky G 2008-05-20 08:07AM | 0 recs
i agree no one should vote against...

their conscience.  the trouble is, if voting for barack was against her conscience, what was she doing in the democratic party in the first place?

by bored now 2008-05-20 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: i agree no one should vote against...

People have their own reasons and their own takes on what a candidate represents, that go way past issues.  If Hillary was leading now we would be seeing the same diaries but from the other side.  It's basically a good thing that both candidates have such strong appeal, but winning graciously with some empathy to the losing side is really a good thing.  That seems to escape many Obama supporters; there is no need for the aggressively hostile, sarcastic, and snippy rhetoric anymore, even if at one point it was part of the heated campaign.

I am an Obama supporter and I always want to see my fellow supporters representing their candidate well.

by mady 2008-05-20 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

Does her "conscience" involve women's rights?  Does the Iraq War touch at all upon her "conscience"?  Does the plight of the working class and middle class in this country have anything to do with her "conscience"?

My conscience tells me that John McCain would not only be a political and legal but a moral disaster for our country.  My conscience dictates that I vote for the Democratic nominee in the fall.

by mistersite 2008-05-20 08:54AM | 0 recs
She didn't say she was taking her...

ball and going home.  She is leaving a political party that she no longer connects to.

I know in the past Shazone has said that she would vote against Obama...but this diary sounds like she has moved past that - unfortunately to leaving the Party, not just its candidate.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:18AM | 0 recs
I mean, she almost sounds relieved...

to have come to this conclusion.  She evens says she leaves without rancor and bitterness.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: She didn't say she was taking her...

The platform of the Democratic Party hasn't changed in the last six months.  If a heated primary season is enough to get a person to leave the Party then we are better off without that person, IMO.  

Good riddance Shazone.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-20 08:22AM | 0 recs
Wow

Kind of stunned by your response.  No wonder she left.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:45AM | 0 recs
I agree! I also sense a bit of panic...

in the comments here - as if Obama supporters are starting to realize the depth of the fall-out of this campaign.

There is a lot more going on with Dems leaving the party than simply support for a candidate.  It has to do with a lot of deeper issues and emotions...but then, the American Idol mentality doesn't look too deep before it votes.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I have noticed...

we just get frustrated at the daily attempts to derail this nomination process.  from sanctimonious calls to write in hillary as a third-party candidate, to charging obama supporters of sexism, elitism, over-education, under-aging, bullying, weakness, being duped, drinking koolaid (what's wrong with koolaid?), being too urban, or too black, or too college-aged, or too stupid to see that obama is too stupid, or too conservative, or too weak on foreign policy.

by the mollusk 2008-05-20 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

This is really the equivalent of the "goodbye cruel world" diaries you see on forums so much.

It's telling- when someone doesn't get what they want, there are two things they can do.  Brush off the dirt and get back up, and try and do some good with what exists, or sweep up all your toys and go home.

What I hope is that this is emotion, and the sting of a hard (and well) fought battle coming to end in the other side's favor, and not true hard-headedness at its worst.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-20 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Yeah, I was guilty of one of those myself a little while ago.

I was pissed off about Jerome posting that Obama preening video.

This kind of diary is just self-serving and immature.

I deleted mine quickly.  Maybe the author of this one should consider doing the same.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-20 07:44AM | 0 recs
I think she said "Good-Bye", so she's

probably not around to respond.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:47AM | 0 recs
doubtful

Somehow I doubt it.

Unless you're not counting probable sock puppets.

by emptythreatsfarm 2008-05-20 07:54AM | 0 recs
What's a sockpuppet?

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I think she said "Good-Bye"...

Oh I most certainly think she's around looking at comments.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-20 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I am sorry to lose the diarist's energy and commitment.  I hope they do not consider the door closed or hesitate to reconsider.  Reevaluation of a position is a mark of strength and confidence, not weakness.  If the diarist chooses not to reconsider, I hope they understand that many of us will continue to advocate for the values and causes that HRC represents to them, that Clinton's leadership in this party will - I hope - prove pivotal in advancing those interests.

by Strummerson 2008-05-20 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb
You have consistently been an intelligent and respectful poster here. You understand how to discuss an issue without ridiculing the person, or dismissing an issue that obviously has not just been fabricated by one or two "trolls". Please share your grace and skills with those who may not understand or have not yet learned the finer points of conflict resolution, or how to speak with someone who is upset. The Hopi phrase that has been interpreted as "We are the ones we've been waiting for" comes from a culture and tradition where respect for elders is not a questioned or debatable issue. It is integral to who we are in relation to the world. Thank You.
by Jeter 2008-05-20 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Thanks for your kind words.  I just posted a diary on the subject.  I hope it has the desired effect.

by Strummerson 2008-05-20 04:34PM | 0 recs
Not true, Shazone.

You are both wanted and needed. You are neither too old nor past your prime, and I say this as a 23-year-old Clinton supporter who will support Obama in the fall if he wins the nomination. If people have told you that they don't need you, they are fools. Most of us don't feel that way -- we're smarter than that. And don't forget, the people on these blogs are not really representative of Obama's base. Nevermind what the assholes say.

by sricki 2008-05-20 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Nobody told you to get out. It was you who said you'd be voting for McCain. We acknowledged it as your inalienable right but it failed to scare us into submission.

That's pretty much what you're complaining about - that we won't submit to a blackmail of "Nominate Hillary or else".

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-20 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I've got to be at least your age, or older.  I've always supported Democrats and have supported Obama in this campaign.  A couple of things, since you posted this publically, that seem fair to mention:

What exactly is it, aside from deep disappointment that your candidate has probably lost this thing, prevents you from even considering Obama?  His obnoxious supporters?  There are plenty of those on both sides of the campaign, but I agree for a woman some of his snotty young guys wear really really thin.  Still, I'm not sure not liking them translates to not voting for him.

If his stand on the issues seems unclear, look up his speeches, look at his website, look at his votes, the same way you would hers.  That's obvious but there is plenty of information out there that would let you determine how he will proceed as President.

As far as Senator Kennedy's statement, I really believe he has been carrying the image of his brothers, particularly of Bobby, in his head his whole life, and is grabbing what he sees as an opportunity to re-create some of the smart, charismatic, progressive, qualities of their candidacies.  I think this is personal not political if the two things can be separated.

I am sure, whether you vote in the GE or not, that you will find other ways of advancing the progressive agenda, and good luck with that.  I just hope you might be able to listen to Hillary Clinton when and if she concedes, and let her judgment in this guide you.

by mady 2008-05-20 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

linfar said:
A great injustice has been done here, and democrats do not take injustice lying down. They fight.

I guess it just needs to be repeated again since you obviously didn't "hear" it the first time.  

by bach 2008-05-20 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I've only ever made a remark like "okay, bye" when someone has said that they are voting for McCain, or that they will not vote for our nominee under any circumstances.

I didn't kick you out.  I acknowledged that you'd done it yourself, or at the very least, made it plain through sanctimonious hyperbole that you can't handle that your candidate fell short.

If I, personally, hurt your feelings, I am sorry to a point.  But I am not sorry for saying that if you are here to tell us that you'll vote for McCain to spite us, then you have no place at a website that fights to elect Democrats.

Peace be upon you, and I wish you luck in your endeavors.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-20 07:43AM | 0 recs
Pat on the head...kick in the gut.

I don't think a comment like yours is much help...tell someone they're sanctimonious and then say you're "kind of" sorry.  

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Um, you have been threatening to not vote for Obama for literally months.  You have intentionally antagonized many people here.  I don't understand what this diary adds to your "work product" since at least February - you made your decision a long time ago.

by rfahey22 2008-05-20 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I think you were never a real democrat because if you were, you would be fighting for Obama just as hard as you fought for the Clintons.  A real yellow dog democrat fights for democrats, all democrats, and I will fight for the Clintons in their next adventure whatever it will be.  

by Spanky 2008-05-20 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Even a good dog can only take being kicked so much before it turns around and bites.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-20 08:01AM | 0 recs
Every time I see "real" and

"Democrat" in the same sentence I brace for a kick in the head.  Only "real democrats" are smart enough to see the glory that is Obama.

I think Shazone sounds like a real democrat - and she has now decided just to be real.

That's a loss for Democrats, IMHO.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 09:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Shazone,

You have not been "kicked out" of the Democratic party; you are leaving of your own volition. Your candidate didn't win. Maybe that means to you that the Democratic party no longer represents you but no one kicked you out.

It is time to start taking responsibility for your decisions and stop blaming others.

The party is closely split this election cycle and has caused a lot of bitterness all around. For those who want to try to work through it, I'll be standing there beside you to fight for what we believe in and to make sure McCain doesn't continue the Bush debacle. For those who are leaving, we will miss you, have appreciated what you have done in the past, but will not grovel or cry after you.

Goodbye and good luck Shazone.

by batgirl71 2008-05-20 07:56AM | 0 recs
To be absolutely fair...

... George Bush helped a lot in pushing them to see the light.  So did Dick Cheney, Alberto Gonzalez, Scooter Libby, Don Rumsfeld, etc....

by tbetz 2008-05-20 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I have been fighting not just for Hillary Clinton (whom I genuinely feel is so much more qualified to be POTUS, and whom I will continue to support right up to November and for anything she ever wants to do in the future), I have been fighting to stay in the Democratic Party.

You nailed it. I appreciate your diary, your honesty, and your years of service to the Democrat Party. They don't know yet what they are losing but it will become apparent to them in November. I stand with Hillary all the way and I stand with you.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-20 07:58AM | 0 recs
"Democrat Party"

Your freudian slip is showing.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-20 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: "Democrat Party"

Freudian or Rovian?

by wasder 2008-05-20 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

If you stand with Hillary, than you should respect her wishes... which is NOT to vote for McCain, but to VOTE for the eventual nominee in the party.

by LordMike 2008-05-20 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Hillary is still in this race and I fully expect her to be the nominee, so yes, I will vote for her in the general election.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-20 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Ummm... ok, and when she isn't?

by LordMike 2008-05-20 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"Democrat Party" eh?

Revealing

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-20 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"Democrat" Party!

by Pat Flatley 2008-05-20 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"Democrat" Party - really is that all you got - a typo. If you think that's a Freudian slip, then you all need to be psychoanalyzed for your fixation.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-20 10:02AM | 0 recs
i applaud your activism

"In the past, I, and others like me, were the backbone of the party.    We got things done.  We funded campaigns.  We turned out the vote.  We won elections."  

but need to point out that you and others like you have not been effective at the national level in the past eight years.

by citizendave 2008-05-20 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: i applaud your activism

uh, no, I don't think so. for example, last time out it was Kerry. It was like drumming up support for a stick who just couldn't say anythng nice about the base. Kerry was the problem.

by linfar 2008-05-20 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: i applaud your activism

so, who were you supporting last time out?

i agree kerry was a problem....specifically his vote on the iraq war that doomed his run.

still, 50% +/- dems, are trying to put up another candidate with a similar record on that issue.

by citizendave 2008-05-20 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Clinton supporters no longer feel welcome in the party. The attitude from Daily Kos and AmericaBlog towards Hillary Clinton certainly hasn't helped

by rossinatl 2008-05-20 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Well, Obama supporters never felt welcome by Hillary supporters... I mean, how many times are we to be insulted as Kool Aid drinkers, eggheads, trust fund kids, etc.  These are painful insults...  but, I guess it's all ok if you are a Hillary supporter.  After all, it was HER turn!

The sense of entitlement is ridiculous.  She should have run a better campaign and made her case!

by LordMike 2008-05-20 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Odd is the attachment to a single flawed candidate so strong that it turns you into an effective supporter of torture, the loss of habeas corpus, the rise of the national security state and the impoverishment of working Americans.

Personally I thought Hillary the weakest and least inspiring of the candidates, but would support her if she was the candidate-- and thus most likely one to reverse the last  eight years of damage.

"Kicked to the curb" is a rather extreme way of  describing having your most preferred candidate fail to triumph.

by wrb 2008-05-20 08:04AM | 0 recs
Utter and complete nonsense

And I have failed.  I have been kicked to the curb.  Given my walking papers.  And told to "get out".

You only "failed" in as much as you couldn't selll your preferred candidate to more voters than the other side could.

Your candidate lost a fair fight, in spite of her desperate attempts to make it unfair.

You haven't been kicked out, you're taking your ball and going home to sulk because the other team won.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-20 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Check your tags.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-20 08:08AM | 0 recs
Come on Shazone - think

it over.  WE only become unnecessary if we allow others to dictate our usefulness.  Kicked to the curb - God if I had a dime - I'd have at least $4.00.  

This is a society which doesn't honor age - frankly seems afraid of aging.

But we have much to offer.  I am amused at the way Sen. Obama is being pushed at us - Sen. Daschle this am on Morning Joe for one.  Wait - didn't he lose his election - and wasn't he a weak minority leader - even given his situation.

We are Democrats, not Obama partisans.  I'm proud to be a Democrat and will vote Democratic - thanks to our party, I have Medicare.  We can't give in - we should realize our strengths and give the noise to the noisemakers.   Who knows?  Sen. Obama may surprise us should he win.  

As to the blogs - maybe you should step away for a bit.  I don't think all the people blogging here are Democrats and many of them are liars.  

I figure I've got a couple more campaigns in me.

Every generation stands on the shoulders of the ones before.  And the older generations have to understand we need the ones coming up.    

We have fought a good fight.
We have finished our course,
We have kept the faith.

Woman up - she does - every day!  

by Xanthe 2008-05-20 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

And the overall theme of the mailer from Mr. Obama played off of and repeated one of the most asinine lines I have ever heard in my entire life:  "We are the change we've been waiting for."  My head exploded.

Obama has always been an organizer who was interested in getting more people involved. He believes that all that stands between Democrats and progress is the engagement of more people. In other words, he thinks Democrat values are American values, and by getting more people involved, we win (as a party AND as a nation).

How that's asinine, I can't imagine. Sure, it's not meant to speak to a long time party activist. But what he's really saying is that we all need to be more like you, and put our actions behind our beliefs.

As far as the door/ass thing, I don't see why anyone would say you should leave. If you start saying McCain is better than Obama (ie, the "devil you know" comment), then you're not leaving -- you already left. Doesn't mean we wouldn't like to have you back, but for crap's sake, come to your senses. This rule would fully apply in the inverse; if Hillary were the presumptive nominee and someone said, better McCain than her (and probably citing dynasty, privilege, elitism, being out of touch, being a hawk, whatever), they'd deserve the same response.

by mattw 2008-05-20 08:18AM | 0 recs
(Actually it is a pretty asinine statement.)

What in the world does it mean?  

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: (Actually it is a pretty asinine statement.)

It means that politicians promise change, but they fail to deliver because they promise to do it for us. Obama is saying: it's up to us, the people, to change. He's only here to enable, not to do the job. If we want a government that works, we all have to work to be committed, educated, informed, passionate - and help ensure our fellow citizens are also.

In other words, we had the power to change the world all along; Obama just happens to be here to help muster and direct it.

That's how I took it, and it struck me as a relatively humble way to look at your campaign.

by mattw 2008-05-20 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: (Actually it is a pretty asinine statement.)

Well said. And the slogan underscores the importance, frequently pooh-poohed by Clinton supporters, of charisma and motivation.  If Obama can get young people excited about public policy and civic responsibility, if he can get them "fired up" with speeches so they want to go out and do some good in the world, that's a wonderful thing for a President to be doing. Can you imagine Bush or McCain managing that?

by jere7my 2008-05-20 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: (Actually it is a pretty asinine statement.)

I can't.

Although I should add - it's not just young people. Even many grown adults think the entirety of democracy is casting a vote every few years after watching a pathetically commercialized debate.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and frankly, it sometimes feels like we're asleep at the wheel.

by mattw 2008-05-20 10:15AM | 0 recs
Its a shame..

and I mean that in all honesty.

Because it isn't about new Democrats or old Democrats. Its about Democrats.

I am one of the people who told you to leave if you felt the way you did...and I did it because I feel that many of your ilk were telling us "new" Democrats that we weren't welcome at your party.

by JDF 2008-05-20 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"So I'm going.  Not with rancor.  Not with bitterness.  I'm just going."

Sounds like bitterness to me.

by Pravin 2008-05-20 08:24AM | 0 recs
Huh?

What part of WITHOUT rancor, WITHOUT bitterness don't you understand?

I didn't read any of Shazone's previous feelings - almost resignation.

And I didn't see "blackmail" in it either.  She's just gone.

And those who have invited her to leave should be thrilled.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Huh?

Read her entire diary. It contradicts the statement I quoted.

by Pravin 2008-05-20 09:55AM | 0 recs
So you think she is bitter...or not?

Sorry I'm confused!

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 10:25AM | 0 recs
Give it some time.

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-05-20 08:32AM | 0 recs
by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Someone else feels the same way.

She voted for George Bush in 2000.

by Pat Flatley 2008-05-20 09:10AM | 0 recs
Well, you can agree that 2001

changed all that for this young woman...right?

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 09:14AM | 0 recs
Quite the opposite

flavor-of-the-month Dem doesn't get the precious, goes back to GOP.  In other news, dog bites man.

by JJE 2008-05-20 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Shazone--I have bumped heads with you before and been on the receiving end of some harsh words from you but I sincerely hope that you can find a way to continue your participation in the Democratic Party process if and when Obama is the nominee. We need fighters and you are clearly one.

by wasder 2008-05-20 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Shazone--I have bumped heads with you before and been on the receiving end of some harsh words from you but I sincerely hope that you can find a way to continue your participation in the Democratic Party process if and when Obama is the nominee. We need fighters and you are clearly one.

by wasder 2008-05-20 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Shazone - I'm with you all the way.....

by nikkid 2008-05-20 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Yeah, me too. So many years, so many marches, and so much money, dedication, and loyalty -- and so many hours spent doing the hard ground work for the party, especially in strong Republican Districts. That's HARD WORK, when you're fighting for Democrats in GOP strongholds.

But, I never gave up; until now.

And, I am going, too. Kicked to the curb. Don't fit the DEMOGRAPHIC of the New Democrats, by Donna Brazile and Howard Dean.

I'll always have the greatest admiration for SOME Democrats--Hillary Clinton--but I'll have to do it from outside the new much smaller "big tent" which doesn't have room to accomodate me.

by Tennessean 2008-05-20 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb


I live on Cleveland's west side...we're talking older, ethnic, union, and super patriotic because we badly wanted to be accepted by other Americans.

I was also the only one at Easter dinner to vote for Barack Obama.  There was some vigorous hands gesturing when we discussed the primary.  The conversation quickly reverted from English to my relatives' native tongue.  There were slightly racist comments made.  There were some sexist comments made as well.  Democratic voters are a mixed bag.

This is all a colorful way of saying I come from an old school democratic background.  I just found myself really jarred by the tone and the style of President Clinton's 8 years in office and I was frankly looking for reasons to support another candidate at this campaign's outset.

But, if she had been elected, I would have accept that there a TONS of democrats who like her style and continued to work for her election.

The question is: Why won't you?

by Crookd River Progressive 2008-05-20 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Yes, "we are the change" is cloying and sentimental sloganeering, even if it is a Hopi saying (which I am not sure I believe)

However, what about "ready on day one?" (Which implied Obama would not be "ready" -- an implication Bill Clinton later confirmed when he said a Hillary nomination would mean "two Americans who love their country" would be in the general?)  Or any of a hundred other slogans HRC has used?

We cannot be this thin skinned any longer -- look at McCain and tell me seriously you are willing to sell out your sisters on choice, your brothers on the war, your fellow dems on finally getting this republic back on track to being a democracy?

Clinton fought a tough, valiant fight; she came close, but Obama has won the nomination.  After years of losing elections, we should be a little tougher than this now that we finally have a real shot at winning.

Going over to the other side is childish, and foolish, if you believe in the values of the progressive movement.  If you don't, then what are you doing here?  (With all due respect.)

Think how you'll feel if McCain wins, and we get another John Roberts or Antonin Scalea for the SCOTUS?  How you'll feel if we lose another 4000 soldiers in Iraq?  If our economy continues down the path to fundamental inequality and lack of opportunity? The GOP machine seizes even more of the apparatus of government?

Please, rethink your attitude.  Hillary will live to fight another day, and she has declared her support for Obama, if he wins, which he will.  If she can do it, so can you. Please.  

by fightbull 2008-05-20 09:01AM | 0 recs
Ahh, she's not here any more.

I think that was the point of this diary.

"Going over to the other side is childish, and foolish, if you believe in the values of the progressive movement.  If you don't, then what are you doing here?  (With all due respect.)"

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I don't buy it. No one is kicking anyone to the curb. Like you said, you are leaving, and that is your right. Bon Voyage.

Their are two young, idealistic Americans to take your place. There are older Americans who have never felt included who are taking your place. There are disaffected Republicans who will take your place.

And together we elect the next President for you. And he will do the things you have fought for all your life, whether you choose to help this time or whether you choose to sit it out and sulk.

by xdem 2008-05-20 09:01AM | 0 recs
Bravo!!!!

Thanks for having the courage to articulate what many of us are feeling.  This isn't about winning or losing anymore; it's about integrity and respect. Make sure the door doesn't slam on your way out because there will be many others following right behind you.  

by izarradar 2008-05-20 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Bravo!!!!

I reserve my respect for those with the integrity to acknowledge that the causes they claim to have supported all their lives will not be well-served by a McCain Administration, and for those with the maturity to overlook all the hot air the blogosphere has created, and to continue to work for those causes, regardless of whether the candidate who supports them is their particular chosen ideal.

Any of us who've been at this for a while know how this works. I fell in love with Paul Tsongas in '92, was dubious about Bill Clinton at first, but understood that he was by all measures a far superior choice to Bush Sr. I don't regret that decision one bit, in the cold hard light of 16 years of retrospect.

by ipsos 2008-05-20 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

when the sexism stuff started to get hot, back when there were many still hoping to be our nom, I wrote to Howard and said I would again give money to the party when he came out and made a strong statement against the hate speech about her, when he lectured Mr. Obama on not using pug talking points and ads to attack her character.  I got silence and I've given nothing. No matter which one wins, and I still think it will be Hillary, my party let me down.   I've lost many of my first choice, it wasn't Bill Clinton for me, it wasn't John Kerry for me, and Gore lost.  I was for him because he was prepared, the transition would have been smooth and dare I say it he might have stopped 9/11, but he was a hectoring kind of know-it-all (not a fathead, but a know-it-all) and he lost to the frat boy who has wrecked our economy, our military and oh so much more.   Once again I'm for the most prepared one, that has the team in place to get started, and this time who also shares my priorities, women's health, kids safety, the fair chance for everyone to get ahead. And she's also for investment in green energy and locating those businesses in disadvantaged communities. She's the best candidate I've seen, and I'm old. I voted for McGovern, I voted for Mondale. But, all these guys, all the guys who were running in the beginning have backed him and many, including Richardson and Kennedy and Kerry and now even Edwards have based part of their decision on being against her.  It's to me dishonest, and it's certainly divisive. Do I think they care about me or the issues that matter to me, like violence against women, like reproductive rights?  Guess.

The only way to speak to them is through my paycheck. And now by way of blogs, so they can see, yes, I'm very upset with my party. They need to treat all of us well.  Barack is new? I don't agree, it's same old same old, and none of them won.  The only one who won was Bill Clinton. And he did an okay job, not near what Hillary can accomplish if she's given the chance to run against McCain.  

by anna shane 2008-05-20 09:09AM | 0 recs
Abandoning your issues?

You say:

"I have marched in DC for every Pro-Choice rally that took place during my lifetime.

I have marched in two New York City Anti-War rallies."
---------------------------------------- --------
But you are going to walk out of the party which is trying to prevent the overturn of Roe v Wade and is trying to prevent continued and  future stupid wars?

The party still wants you.  The party still needs you...

by rf7777 2008-05-20 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Abandoning your issues?

"But you are going to walk out of the party which is trying to prevent the overturn of Roe v Wade and is trying to prevent continued and  future stupid wars?"

More than that, even...whether the plan is to vote directly for McCain, or to vote for a third-party candidate (or not vote at all) in hopes that McCain wins, the effect is still the same: you're failing to use your vote in a way that acts in the interests of the causes you claim to support.

That's your right, of course, but don't expect much sympathy from those of us who believe that either Democrat would do a far superior job of upholding those values than would McCain.

(And I'm still trying to come to grips on how anyone who claims to have marched in anti-war rallies could find Obama, who's never wavered in his opposition to the Iraq War, so distasteful.)

by ipsos 2008-05-20 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I'm sorry you feel this way.

I don't think Obama wants you gone, but here's what he means.

Even in the Clinton presdiency, we were hamstrung by a right wing that did anything and everything to end him, see David Brock's old book.

That has to be unacceptable.

by Falsehood 2008-05-20 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

You know, when the Cleveland Indians lost Game 5 of the ALCS last year (and subsequently the series), I was incredibly sad and mad!  We choked a wonderful opportunity to win a world championship against a very weak Colorado team.  I was mad, ranting, upset.  You know, this town hasn't won anything in almost 50 years... It means a lot to us, 'cos we've been stepped on for years and years...  I also felt that that was our only shot... that everything came together last year, and it won't work out like that again!  Well, I don't know if it will or not, but the fact is they lost.  They didn't lose 'cos of bad umpiring.  They lost 'cos they just did not perform as well on the field.  The Red Sox just did better.

Hillary lost this campaign.  She didn't perform well enough to win.  She had all the advantages going in, but, she ran into a movement!  People in the USA are angry!  So, angry, they aren't going to vote for any establishment candidate this year.  Hillary just got in at the wrong time.  She could have easily won in 2004.  It's not personal against her... or you... 2008 is just different is all.

And yes, we are trying to throw out the old politics... the DLC politics that have been an utter failure the past decade.  Not one win, and we had to actually compromise our principles to lose!  This year will be the first year in ages that we actually will be able to contrast with the Republicans, instead of validating their failed platform.  But, no one is trying to throw out democrats!  We're trying to bring more in!  We hope that you will continue to support us and work together for a common cause.  Rembmer, the Democratic party is not just about one person!  It's not just about Hillary!  It's about all of us!

Hillary fought a tough campaign, but she lost fair and square, just like the Indians did.  And maybe, just like the Indians, it might be a long time before a woman gets a shot again.  I hope not, on both counts, but the season is over... and, just like Clevelanders say every year, "there's always next year."  

It hurts... I know... but, there can be only one winner, unfortunately...  Unfortunately, someone has to lose and go home.  That doesn't mean it's over.  It's just begun!  This is going to be a great year for Democrats!!  Stay with us and let's have some fun this November!

by LordMike 2008-05-20 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I guess you don't want to hear that I was in the stands for Game 6 of the ALCS, then, do you? :-)

That said...there's a very real difference between LordMike's sports analogy and the campaign we're all fighting this fall.

As a devout Red Sox fan, I have two priorities when I check the scores - that the Sox are winning and that the despised Yankees are losing. There's no such thing as an "AL Team." After the Sox lost to a, frankly, better Yankees team in the 2003 ALCS, I certainly was rooting for the NL to win in the World Series, which they did.

Too many of us are treating Obama vs. Clinton as though it were Sox vs. Yankees - if our home team loses, we've got to root against the hated Evil Empire.

Except in this case, the Evil Empire is a wizened 71-year-old archconservative in maverick's clothing, and if he wins in November, whether through our active involvement or indifference, our nation is in for a world of hurt. The stakes are a lot higher than a golden trophy with a bunch of pennants on it.

And, sorry, but anyone who can't sign on to that premise isn't really helping the cause I'm fighting for this fall.

by ipsos 2008-05-20 01:11PM | 0 recs
I understand how you feel, and my advice to you

is to focus on your local elections (house, senate, ballot measures,etc.), and get involved at that level, if you dont support the (presumptive)Presidential nominee.  That way you can focus on the issues that are important to you,  even if you do not like the message of the Presidential Candidate.

I live in California, and plan on helping at the local level myself.  I am still a Democrat.  I don't care for Obama nor do I feel welcome by his supporters.

It is only natural that over the course of a lifetime,  there is going to be a Presidential candidate, or some type of movement within the Democratic Party that you don't support or agree with.  Its inevitable.

Please try to focus on the areas that you DO agree with the party (like winning a Supermajority in Congress, with maybe Hillary as the Majority Leader enacting Universal Healthcare)  and don't leave the party!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is what I intend to do if Hillary doesn't win this.  And yes, in spite of the horrible names some of Obama's supporters call us, I still will hold my nose and vote for him  (thats just me, I am not saying that EVERYONE has to do this).    

by Sandy1938 2008-05-20 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Thank you for this heartfelt diary. I empathize totally. As I was reading it, I was anticipating the inevitable smug, vitroilic comments and when I scanned them they were exactly what I expected to find. The majority of mydd participants are not interested in hearing sentiments like yours, sentiments with which I agree wholeheartedly. I rarely come here anymore, and this will likely be one of my last visits. Obama's Democratic party isn't one I want anything to do with. There's too much nastiness under the pretty slogans.

by portia9 2008-05-20 09:33AM | 0 recs
Thank you. Well said.

Hubby's been asking me for so long to unjoin the Democratic Party as what they have become.  I kept telling him to wait.  If they play in to this direction of the "new party", based on these divisive tactics we've seen for so many months.  Able to rip apart the base of the Dems instead of Repubs, besides the DLC succeeding in what they set out, especially since Obama joined them in 2003 and called their rising star, I will be right there with you.  Having no reason to stay their new democrat.  Of course, it looks so much like the Republicans, who can tell the difference.

by LindaSFNM 2008-05-20 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you. Well said.

That's just untrue.  Obama never joined the DLC, and when they put his name in their rolls, he specifically asked them to remove it.

by Rorgg 2008-05-20 10:08AM | 0 recs
o cry me a frickin river

This diary sounds like my 2-year old niece.

If you don't buy me that dolly, then I'm gonna hold my breath till I turn blue!

Your candidate lost so you're leaving what? The democratic party? If you can turn your back on the party so easily, maybe your heart was never with there in the first place.

Ciao.

by april34fff 2008-05-20 09:37AM | 0 recs
oh

and don't trip over the curb on your way out.

by april34fff 2008-05-20 09:38AM | 0 recs
I can only speak for myself
But I have great respect for all of the Hillary supporters who worked their hearts out on this campaign. She's a great candidate and, particularly in the last few weeks, has run a tremendous campaign. That said, there has to be a winner and a loser in this race. There are inevitably going to be hard feelings as a result. It is likely that, in the next few weeks, after the voting is over, Hillary will concede the race. Of course, whether and when to do that is up to her. But I think that she will see the only other choice is a convention battle that is doomed to fail and will seriously help McCain. She's too smart and cares too much about the country to let that happen. And after Hillary concedes, I hope that you will see Barack for the strong candidate that he is: a staunch supporter of democratic values, a strong supporter of choice, someone who will appoint justices who do not vote like Scalia and Thomas. And I hope that you will join me and many others in working hard to beat John McCain and his anti-choice followers.
by OaktownDad 2008-05-20 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: I can only speak for myself

As a lifelong democrat I'm pretty used to seeing our candidates lose and as an 'older' voter also pretty used to loss of loved ones and friends and so to think that it is because 'your candidate is losing' is the feeling many of those 'being kicked to the curb' have is an unrealistic view of the dynamics of what is going on.

At the end of the day...it isn't that I've only watched Clinton campaign but also watched Obama for the last year. If he hasn't convinced me now he' strong enough, ready enough or capable enough to represent me in Washington..then he's doing something drastically wrong that he needs to change. He's aware of it, the DNC is aware of it and if he had the capability he'd already be doing it. He made a huge mistake when he stated "all Hillary's supporters will vote for me but I don't think my supporters will vote for her". It was an assumption that both made him arrogant and in peril of doing nothing to earn those votes except thinking Hillary had earned them for him.

BTW- been around too long to fall for the Politics of Fear from either the Republicans or, now it seems the Democrats and if that's the 'change politics' the Obama camp have been touting...better find a new one.  

by Justwords 2008-05-20 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: I can only speak for myself

Nomination fights within a party are hurtful because they make mountains out of molehills with regard to differences between the candidates and tend to overlook entirely the vast areas of agreement between them.  This long, difficult campaign is proof of it.

Now is a challenging time.  The contest is not over, but time is running out.  It is becoming increasingly clear who the victor will be.  And, in the end, someone must lose.  If my candidate were to lose, I would be frustrated and tempted to focus on all bad things that have happened in the campaign.  

Let me make this appeal:  In November, the country will make a decision between John McCain and a Democrat.  McCain will continue four years of George Bush policies, and may well be even more of a cowboy in foreign policy.  He will appoint one or more anti-choice Justices and may well lead to a reversal of Roe v. Wade.

Our country's future depends on defeating John McCain.  I understand that some of you don't like Barack Obama, and that many of you particularly don't like the tactics and statements of some of his ham-fisted supporters.  Many of you have reasonable doubts about Obama's experience and policies.  Fair enough.  But please, if you are considering walking away from the fight, take some time.  Give it some thought.  Give Barack a fair hearing, removed from this difficult family fight that is the primary season.  And, above all, consider the alternative.  

My daughter and son deserve better than a future tarred by another Republican in the White House.  My daughter deserves to come of age in a nation where choice is respected.  And so do your children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews and everyone else.  I'm asking you to consider supporting the Democratic candidate and helping protect our county's future.

by OaktownDad 2008-05-20 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: I can only speak for myself

OaktownDad: I'm not falling for the politics of fear- at least not the brand people are selling.

As I've said before in many posts I'm not voting for Obama because IF he could possibly win (and I don't think he can) then he would be a one term president and we will have 8-12 or more years of Republican presidents to follow. That's a risk I'm not willing to take.

We will have a bigger majority in the Senate and House in 2009 and that is more important to me this year.

I love my country. My husband fought for this country and to us it is country before party and our choice IS to protect the country.

I thank you for the respect in which you have argued your point...but this is nothing I take lightly.

by Justwords 2008-05-20 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: I can only speak for myself

JustWords, I feel very similar to you.  I am also a lifelong democrat who has volunteered and been involved in local and national elections going all the way back to Dukakis.  I survived the devasting blow of George Bush defeating Ann Richards for governor, which is something I thought I could never get over because she was one of my heroes.  I volunteered for both Clinton campaigns (was nice to win one for a change!)  I volunteered for Gore's campaign.. was crushed once again to watch that sack of shit Bush defeat another one of my candidates.  I was a Dean person in 2004, reluctantly supported Kerry.  During all of this time I earned my college degree, had 3 children, went throw major changes/losses..  I consider myself to be a pretty well seasoned, rational, and thoughtful person.  During all of this time I never once considered myself to be not welcome in the Democratic party.  I have never lost faith.  Until now.  I haven't lost enough to leave the party but I am seriously disillusioned with some of the statements made by those who are running the campaign of "hope and change".  Obama's statement that he could get Hillary's votes did absolultely rub me the wrong way - it was arrogant beyond belief.  I am glad so many new people are coming into the process, but am greatly concerned that there seems to be an either/or thing going on here... and the choice is not the lifelong, hard core Democrats.  I am worried that the divide between old vs new will lead to a loss in November, and so far I am not seeing any signs that there will be an effort to keep this from happening.  I can see why people would feel "kicked to the curb" at this point.

by JustJennifer 2008-05-20 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I understand exactly how you feel.  I'm trying to figure out what I will do.  

I'm a lifelong democrat. The negativity hurled at Hillary Clinton and ALL her supporters during this campaign has disturbed me deeply.  I expected vile commentary from Repubs, but to have it come from gleeful Democrats who are calling their candidate and their movement "unifying" is strategically weird.

Over the years I've seen my party polarize in stupid ways, but this is indeed a "transformational" level of stupidity.  

by snarbagel 2008-05-20 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Are you not concerned about the vicious attacks coming from Clinton supporters?  Have you seen Universal's "cult" video linking Obama to Jim Jones and Hitler?  Have you read the comment threads at hillaryis44.org, calling Obama a secret Jihadist and his wife a "greasy Nubian queen"?

Both sides have supporters they should be ashamed of. Most people on both sides are fair-minded, reasonable, intelligent Democrats.  But the baiters and trolls shout the loudest.

I wouldn't judge all Clinton supporters by the septic system at hillaryis44; I would ask you not to judge Obama's supporters by the worst among them.

by jere7my 2008-05-20 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Yes, I get disturbed by those hurling vicious attacks such as the ones you mentioned; but those types of attacks, which are going to both candidates, are not what I'm talking about.

What I am referring to is more about the Obama campaign message itself.  "Old" politics, as if Hillary Clinton and all her supporters are the cause of partisan politics.  That's such an insult to those of us who have been engaged in the fight against the conservative movement. And the message says that all the work we did in those times is valueless and abhorrent.

Additionally, on numerous occasions the Obama campaign has implied that Hillary Clinton is racist, and that her supporters are racist. If we prefer her experience and message over Obama's, we are dismissed as prejudiced.  

It's the message from the Obama campaign that disturbs me.

by snarbagel 2008-05-20 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

And accusations of sexism have come from the Clinton campaign and their surrogates -- explicitly from Ferraro, to name one.  I think your team has been worse; you think my team has been worse.  I'm not sure it does anybody any good to try to place blame for who started what when -- both teams are, observably, light years better than McCain and the Republican agenda.  If you're concerned about sexism OR racism OR nasty attacks, the Republicans have both Clinton and Obama beat.

Anyway, I think you're deeply misinterpreting the Change message, and reading a lot of hurtful stuff into it that simply isn't there.  A year from now, a lot of us are going to look back at this argument over minutiae and wonder how we let it get this bad.

I've said all along I would vote for the Democrat.  I said it when Clinton seemed inevitable, I said it when the outcome was bitterly contested, and I say it now that Obama seems inevitable.

by jere7my 2008-05-20 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I appreciate the sentiment to support the democrat, and I always have for a life-time, since the party represents my political ideology better than the alternatives.  And I know Hillary Clinton will say the things needed for unity and that might help.  But, this time feels really different than past disappointments.

by snarbagel 2008-05-20 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I watched a clip of Ferraro and was rather dumbfounded. One of her main pieces of evidence that there was sexism was that the other candidates criticized Senator Clinton at a debate when Clinton was the frontrunner.  

It's the norm that the frontrunner gets most of the attention and criticisms.  This is how it has always been. And Senator Clinton said so herself when she said that she wasn't being attacked because she's a woman, it was because she was ahead.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-20 10:05AM | 0 recs
Shazone, can we talk about that in the calm and

with as little emotional involvement as possible? I perfectly understand where you are coming from. My mom has the feelings as you have. She is much more other than you are, though, since i am in my early 40s.

So, if you want to talk about that, we can. We just need to find away to do.

I would hate to see someone as talented as you leave the democratic party, although i understand you feelings and frustrations.

by likelihood zero 2008-05-20 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I'll be joining you. My sentiments exactly. Perhaps we are seeing the true colors of the real Democrats. Perhaps I finally see why John Kerry lost (it was so devastating back then)...perhaps I am seeing the change I have been waiting for...and it is to exit this Democratic Party. I will always be a Hillary Clinton supporter. And it's not about "losing", it's about a process that has been so disgusting, that supporting this party would tarnish my ideals and values. Bye Howard, Bye Bye Donna (there are not words to describe my assessment of you) Bye John, So long Teddy, and farewell to the other John (as in Edwards). And see ya to all the rest! Yup, you clearly have no need for the likes of me in this party anymore. And this "little sweetie" isn't coming back any time soon!!!HILLARY IS THE CHANGE AMERICA REALLY NEEDS!!!!

by susanclare 2008-05-20 10:26AM | 0 recs
Clinton and Kerry voted for Bush's asinine War

That is the number one reason they both lost.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-20 05:07PM | 0 recs
I'm With Geraldine

Shazone-

I am with you. This is a party that I don't recognize anymore. Throwing experience and the possibility of a win to the curb to join a movement that really isn't about anything very grand- it's about a candidate.

I know that the conventional wisdom is that Hillary has run some sort of ugly campaign. Except of course that all of the "ugliness" is really just smoke and mirror games that cast legitimate statements in racial clothing that doesn't fit. (The "fairy tale" kerfluffe comes to mind.)

The branding of Geraldine Ferraro was a watershed moment for me. Here is a woman who has been a valuable member of our party for her entire adult life, who has fought for equality in real ways and, for the sake of political expediency, was branded a racist, and worse.

This is a movement with an ugly underbelly. And I'm not sure that I can hop on, either. I am thinking of writing in Hillary in the fall. I won't vote for McCain. Right now, I feel pretty resolute in the fact that I won't vote for Obama either.

And like you I have been an activist. I organized a county for Gore in 2000, made thousands of phone calls for Kerry in 2004, used to work as a Congressional staffer and have contributed far more than I can afford to our Presidential nominees in the last two cycles.

by arkansasdemocrat 2008-05-20 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

If you want to leave the party, go.

It won't do you or anyone else any good.

It won't get your preferred candidate the nomination.

But it's your life.

by DeskHack 2008-05-20 10:33AM | 0 recs
A laundry list of Democratic values

Is BO:

1.  Pro-choice?  Check.

  1.  Against the Bush tax cuts?  Check.
  2.  Against corporate welfare?  Check.
  3.  Pro-environment?  Check.
  4.  For a form of universal healthcare?  Check.

Is he a god(dess)send?  Hell no.

My goodness, the reason this has been such a tough battle is that HRC and BO have very similar policy positions and trying to differentiate from each other has been an 'image' contest.  Sad, but true.

Your 'image' of the Democratic Party changed when HRC lost.  BUT THE MEAT OF THE ISSUES ARE STILL TRUE.

So, are you gonna help McCain win and GO AGAINST YOUR OWN VALUES BECAUSE YOUR PREFERRED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE LOST?

For your sake, our country's sake, for the Democratic Party's sake....I HOPE YOU VOTE FOR BO IN THE GE!

by yankeeinmemphis 2008-05-20 10:48AM | 0 recs
Yes, please check

There are plenty of questions about every item on that list.

***A

by adrienne4dean 2008-05-20 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: A laundry list of Democratic values

All we have from Obama is words--few actual actions.

I agree with the poster.  I am having a lot of trouble with my party and I am as old as dirt. I have been loyal all these years, but I am not liking what I am seeing now.  LOTS OF UGLINESS AND STUPID MOVES.

by The Smoldering Crone 2008-05-20 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Wonderfully said!  Thank you!  I feel the same way except if I leave...... it won't be in a nice way.

SCREW the MINDLESS drones of the OBAMBI drum beat to never never land!

Sheeple

exactly what MOST of them preached about DAILY towards their REPUKE counterparts

they ARE what they PREACH against
they name is HYPOCRITE

GO HILLARY
KEEP FIGHTING
STOP THE INSANITY

by CarolinaDawn 2008-05-20 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Up the dosage.

by DeskHack 2008-05-20 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Just the sort of insults that have made it more difficult to contemplate supporting Hillary.

But I would

We old, cynical, well-informed and well-red democrats don't much like being called naive underaged unthinking sexist cultists.

At least I don't

by wrb 2008-05-20 11:24AM | 0 recs
Susan Powter, is that you?

"STOP THE INSANITY"

Or should I say Susan Pouter?!!

by DrPolitics 2008-05-20 02:01PM | 0 recs
I don't get this diary AT ALL

What specifically happened?  Is the rhetorical appeal to change not a good idea?  Was our party not in need of change?  Does anybody think the Democratic party over the last decade has been fanf**kingtastic?  Can I get a show of hands?  I don't expect too many.  So what's the big deal, besides that Hillary is getting ready to lose?

by kellogg 2008-05-20 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't get this diary AT ALL

Look at the person's history, and you will see that this has been a consistent theme of his/hers for quite some time.  I think that this is just an effort to get extra attention.  

by rfahey22 2008-05-20 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I'm not a big believer in party above all else. If your party ceases to represent you then it is your right, and IMO your duty to walk away. However, this is your choice. You have not been kicked, or pushed. The truth is that people, who are probably not all that different from you, voted for Sen. Obama. People like me who scrutinized these fine, historic candidates and made a choice not based on gender or race, but on who we felt best would represent us. At this moment in time, I could not be more proud to call myself a Democrat.

by grasshopper 2008-05-20 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb
And I have failed. I have been kicked to the curb. Given my walking papers. And told to "get out".
The only person who has kicked you to the curb is Hillary Clinton. For months Obama has been more than kind to Senator Clinton. Despite his growing lead, he has never once boasted or called on her to leave the race. Even now, when she has no chance to win the nomination, he leaves her with the choice. If you are offended by Obama's message, then I'm sorry. But I don't understand how someone who claims to be as politically involved as you do not see how divisive the red/blue divide has been, even during the Clinton years. Your age or experience does not prevent you from being a voice of change. It enables you. No one said Hillary was incapable of bringing change because of her experience, we just believed that her campaign was not bringing the changed we thought we needed. Obama has never cast you to the curb. He needs people like you. Obama's movement has never been a movement of youth or of African Americans. It has been a movement of Americans, young and old, black and white. Some voters were more eager to embrace it early on, some are just embracing it now, but its never too late. Clinton's latest attempts at painting everyone as sexist for trying to force her out seems to be a slap in the face to all her supporters. The time for unity, not division, is now. And you are welcome in the coalition. Senator Clinton has had and continues to have a right to stay in the race. But while her fighting attitude may have been admirable back when there odds were long, now it is desperate. She can't win. Even if Florida and Michigan are seated in full. She will never get enough delegates. And because of that, it is time to help the Democratic party and take the focus off her own campaign. For a few days, it looked like she was beginning to make a graceful exit. But recently, she has tried to undermine our nominee by saying she's won the popular vote (which she hasn't) and that she's losing because of sexism (she isn't). Tell me, how is staying in the race a good thing for the country or the party? There is no New Democratic Party. There is a Democratic Party that has chosen a nominee from among its two strongest candidates in a very long time. If you leave the party now, you are abandoning it. It has not abandoned you.
by BlueGAinDC 2008-05-20 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

The Democratic Party betrayed Hillary so badly that they:

1) Endowed her with a 100 Superdelegate lead before voting got underway.

  1. Refused to endorse Obama en masse publicly for virtually the entire primary season.
  2. Gave her access to party machines that allowed her to win big states (e.g. Rendell in PA, Bayh in Indiana)
  3. Allowed her to repeatedly endorse John McCain's experience compared to a fellow Democrat with no rebuke whatsoever.

Why would anyone stick by this bunch of traitors who practically spat on Hillary from the beginning?!?

We're not leaving the party...it left us!!!

Right?

by Reeves 2008-05-20 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

...but...but...they let the voters steal the nomination.

by catilinus 2008-05-20 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

ya, i drove all night to march in dc pro-choice rally, and then drove back to st.louis to make it back for classes. at that time, i never thought i'd be looking at a supreme court SO in peril of consolidating into a decades-long, unbeatable, hard-right coalition.

before you decide to "just go," you might want to step back and take a look at the forest. go wherever you want, but you should do whatever it takes to make sure obama is elected over mccain. (have a look at this short take on the subject from the new yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/20 08/05/26/080526taco_talk_toobin). this is no joke.

by j cantarella 2008-05-20 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

"I have been kicked to the curb.  Given my walking papers.  And told to "get out".

That's how I felt when this country began killing people in a stupid foreign war. It's an honest feeling, but a childish one. Adults shouldn't encourage that type of behavior.

Why should it be encouraged & applauded here?

by catilinus 2008-05-20 11:46AM | 0 recs
Quitter

n/t

by soccerandpolitics 2008-05-20 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I'll personally save a spot for you.

I hope that the same values that brought you to the Democratic party, that drove you to donate so much time, effort, and money, will again return you to the party so that you can help us undo the travesty that is the last eight years.

Choice, Iraq, the Economy, and Health Care hang in the balance.  We need your help!

by AK Democrat 2008-05-20 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I've so rarely backed a winning candidate, I'd have left countless times over the last five decades.  But then I stop, I look at my daughter and son.  I think of her reproductive rights.  I think of him fighting in Iraq.  I look at McCain who will appoint judges to repress her right of choice, who will fight to keep my son in Iraq, who will support torture.  All the sidewalks I pounded over the years canvassing, all the phonebanking, all the donations, the working at fundraisers, they pale ...  For my children, I support the Democratic nominee, because I cannot support the alternative.

by whognu 2008-05-20 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

You were NOT kicked to the curb. You threw yourself under the bus with your previous comments such as:

Sorry, a real Democrat will not allow an empty suit to occupy the most important position in this country and continue our downward spiral.  If you were a REAL DEMOCRAT, you would be voting and supporting the best person for the job. And that is clearly Hillary Clinton >
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/19/9 4157/6663/176

Barack Obama is not ready for primetime - and he knew that - BUT his ego drove him to run for POTUS... we can survive 4 years of John McCain.  Not so sure about 4 years of BO >
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/19/9 4642/7871/2

Genuine"? I haven't seen anything genuine from a BO supporter in 6 months >
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/18/1 7726/4267/53#53

Pelosi was handed a wonderful opportunity that has turned to shit.  This "Dem. Congress" has achieved NOTHING and that may be held against them in 2008.  Wasn't she the leader of this mess?  The fish rots from the head down >
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/18/1 7633/5188/25#25

If this guy supports BO, he doesn't deserve.... any support - IMHO. He obviously is clueless and has been drinking way to much Kool-Aid!

(or to put it another way, regardless of how much you blow your own trumpet about what you have done to support the party in the past, I am not going on some sort of guilt trip  that you are going to leave it, I do not even believe that you were a real Democrat in the first place)

by My Ob 2008-05-20 01:11PM | 0 recs
Of course not, it's a Troll,

whether GOP or some fanatic even slightly associated with the democratic party, this poster is a troll.  I am surprsied it has been allowed to stay here, nearly all the comments are worthy of banishment.

That's why I have no problem with letting this fiend go, I will not try to comfort it or fall into its trap by typing "please come back"...because it wants only one thing, HRC as nominee, for its singular ideal purpose or for better GOP fodder, that is its only goal.  It's not a progressive and if a democrat, an exceedingly poor one.

I actually like these diaries because the lunatic fringe is exposed so easily.

by KLRinLA 2008-05-20 01:57PM | 0 recs
Were we reading that same diary?

"That's why I have no problem with letting this fiend go, I will not try to comfort it or fall into its trap by typing "please come back"...because it wants only one thing, HRC as nominee, for its singular ideal purpose or for better GOP fodder, that is its only goal.  It's not a progressive and if a democrat, an exceedingly poor one."

I didn't read any of what you claim.  She didn't ask to have you tell her to come back...she said her issue went beyond her support for Senator Clinton...and she sounds that she did a lot for the Democratic party in the past.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 02:49PM | 0 recs
You miss my point,

many people are saying please come back, which I disagree with because it allows the troll to respond "never, this party has disgraced me, after all I have done for it,whine whine whine.  I'll never vote Obama, McCain's not bad".

It's a troll and if it actually did do something for the democratic party in the past, it seems even more hypocritical at this point to trade in hard earned and won progressive values all because your gal didn't win (as noted by others above).  That's also why I call BS on this troll's story, it doesn't add up

BTW, if you suggest voting for McCain over Obama on MyDD, then you're a troll, read Todd Beeton's dairy.

by KLRinLA 2008-05-20 03:07PM | 0 recs
I don't know the history of this

diarist - but I didn't see anything in this diary to suggest that she is going to vote for McCain.  I just saw someone who is no longer a Democrat after spending a lot of time helping the party.

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 03:10PM | 0 recs
Are you sure?

You have responding to several comments on this diary and there have been numerous comments referencing to anti-Obama/pro-McCain comments made by this diarist, but look a little harder, like at the dairists prior comments....Its a troll

by KLRinLA 2008-05-20 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I don't know if you're going to see this comment amongst all the other comments.  I don't know if you're even telling the truth or are posting this to get a rise or make fun.

I'm going to believe you.
Believe that you are telling the truth.

Dunno why? Just will.

Anyway. If you're on the up and up?
You are welcome at my blog anytime.
Maybe it really is time for the formation of a new party. New wing of the Democratic Party?
Or a whole new one?

You see even if you are trying to get a rise and didn't do a durn thing you wrote about in this diary entry? I know that there are alot of other women who have. Alot of other women who have been looking at this primary and wondering,

"What the f8ck?"

I hope you see this.

And I hope you come to visit at my blog.

Cause you sure put into words what alot of women could be feeling right now.

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-05-20 01:26PM | 0 recs
Wow. Here's another incredible...

statement...kind of like being Kicked to the Curb:

(Posted as a response to an article in today's Chicago Tribune)

"Boycotting Obama Will Lead to Famine, Armaggeddon, Government-Controlled Uteruses, and other Scare Tactics

A lot of desperate Democrats are suddenly scrambling to "unify" with Clinton's supporters, now that they realize that their snowjob of an election will lead to an Obama boycott in November. The classic line says that we need to avoid letting emotions interfere with judgment and to think about "the issues." Well, here's my answer (disclaimer: I do not have a uterus).

First of all, I do not need to clear my head and take a deep breath. I am a lifetime Democrat, and I have been voting for Democrats since the mid-80s. I am very experienced having my candidate lose, but then moving on to support the party ticket. In past primaries, for example, I voted for Dean, Bradley, and Jesse Jackson (twice!). I get the idea of party unity....Next.

Second, my vote represents more than just support for a set of standard liberal issues. It also protests liberal hypocrisy. The party espouses an equality rhetoric but has undermined it during this election. The party has bashed poor white people, as if they are responsible for the racially segregated nature of corporate America, U.S imperialism, and the exploitation of vulnerable consumers. The party has ignored Latino voters because recognizing them challenges the "only racists vote for Clinton script." The party has invented claims of racial injustice to demonize the Clintons. The party has ridiculed "uneducated" voters, even though Democrats supposedly represent disadvantaged people. Male party members and liberal media have constantly called for Clinton to drop out -- starting after Iowa -- in order to place an aura of doubt around her campaign. The party has completely ignored or even denied the sexist treatment of Clinton, while responding with absolute venom to any real or imagined "racism" directed towards Obama. The party has allowed Obama to wear multiple racial hats -- the nonracial black man, the just black enough to be an historic black president, and the black racial victim - to secure votes. But if Clinton deviates even slightly from a prior script, she is portrayed as a horrible witch who would do "anything to get elected." I refuse to join this madness.

Third, I am unmoved by the pro-Obama scare tactics ("what about Roe, the war, health care, etc.). These are just Karl Rovian "red alerts." Obama is not entitled to our votes. Whatever loyalty the party had from me prior to this election has been depleted. Earlier on when we wanted to discuss progressive issues, the Obama camp and the media silenced our efforts and instead focused on the big rock star pep rallies, Obamania, Camelot, weeping college students, and a host of other unimportant concerns. They told us that we and Clinton were cold and unhopeful, that Clinton was a mere "policy wonk," while Obama made people "feel good again." Suddenly, you want to talk about the issues because it benefits Obama. That's way too unprincipled for me.

Clearly the party leadership has determined that anytime Obama looks weak, the "boys" will endorse him or call for Clinton to leave because she is "hurting the party" and "kneecapping" the "first viable black presidential candidate." Well, party leadership and media, you made these rules; suffer the consequences. To paraphrase Obama, don't tell me my disgust with your behavior doesn't matter. Don't tell me sexism doesn't matter. Don't tell me liberal hypocrisy doesn't matter. Don't tell me I must vote for Obama in order to be a "real" Democrat. If being a real Democrat means bashing women, the poor, and the elderly, manipulating race, ignoring Latinos, and stifling dissent, then I respectfully resign my membership! Achieving justice requires sacrifice, brutal honesty, and passionate commitment. I will not "endorse anything to get a Democrat elected," and neither should you.

-- A Black Male Civil Rights Attorney

Posted by: XXXXXXXX | May 20, 2008 12:50 PM"

by CoyoteCreek 2008-05-20 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow. Here's another incredible...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

While I reject this argument as vigorously as possible (because such an argument led us to defeat in 2000 when certain progressives chose to vote for Nader rather than Al Gore), I acknowledge it as your right.

Obviously, I don't share this view.

by AK Democrat 2008-05-20 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I think everyone who feels this way should leave the party. It's your choice. I don't have to agree with it. And I think there are better reasons to think about leaving a political party (and, personally, I tend not to believe in them much, anyway). But, again, it is your choice.

I will tell you what I told my friends who were planning to vote for Nader in 2k. Just ask yourself if you vote for Nader and Bush wins and it starts fascism in america? How would you feel then. In other words, you should vote according to this very real possibility. Now that this has actually happened in the US and it is an open question whether or not the Bill of Rights even remains in effect (fully) in this country, I would ask you to vote as if this election will determine the final outcome of this problem: whether or not the erosion of civil liberties will continue unabated and we will openly be a police state.

I would also add that only one of these candidates has pledged to reverse this fundamental change in american politics and that has been Obama. HRC has  not disavowed the enhanced powers that Bush has consolidated in the White House since 2k. Obama has.

If you think that this will help women and minorities for you to leave the party in this way, then please leave. We don't have time for this. We  need to take this country back and if you don't have a sense of urgency about that, then there's nothing I or anyone else can say that would get you to change your mind.

So, by all means, your feelings about your candidate, the one you identified with the most, is more important than the future of this country, is more important than the complete loss of civil liberties, the overturning of roe v. wade, additional war, more lives lost, and continued disaster. If this is what you want, then start a third party. But be aware that this is what you are (ethically) choosing.

by DrPolitics 2008-05-20 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Wow, Shazone, that was a perfect expression of how I feel. I'm a 60 yo baby boomer who has voted for Democrats all my life, supported them, donated lots of money, etc. They don't want us, our money, our support and our votes? Fine. Let them see how they fare without us.
by Nobama 2008-05-20 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Hillary won't quite. She'll keep fighting for the soul of the Democratic Party long after this election is over. So will you drop out of the Democratic party & leave her to fight alone?

Is it true? Shazone and you will abandon Hillary because her fortunes are temporarily low?

by catilinus 2008-05-20 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I can't speak for anyone else but as for me, I'm sticking with Hillary to the end. If there's any sense left among the remaining delegates, she'll be nominated. If not, I'm gone and a lot more like me.

As Paul Begala said in response to Donna Brazile's stunningly asinine comment on CNN, if this is the new Democratic party, you can count me out.

by Nobama 2008-05-20 02:35PM | 0 recs
Troll train right on time

by KLRinLA 2008-05-20 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

You are basing your decision not on the candidate but on supporters whose behavior you don't like. There are supporters of all three candidates we wouldn't like to invite home for dinner. You have to look past the supporters to the candidate himself/herself. Please vote Democratic. Or else explain to me why the worst Barack supporter is worse than the worst HRC supporter or worse than the worst McCain supporter.

by applecrispbetty 2008-05-20 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I'm sorry that you believe that when Obama talks about change, he's talking about you.  He's not.  He's talking about Bush and the Republicans, and in some cases Democrats who are too cozy to the way things have been done in Washington.  

I hope you change your mind.  But, either way, best wishes.  

by bosdcla14 2008-05-20 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

Well, I guess the new party'll be the one setting the standards. I thought you might like to be there to guide it along, but, heck. Give it up, I guess.

by ragekage 2008-05-20 03:34PM | 0 recs
Edwards supporters didn't throw Tantrums like this

Letting McPain pack the Supreme Court with radical Right Wing nitwits for the next 8 years would serve Shazone right.

It's a good thing that McPain isn't going to be the next President.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-20 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

So I get it.  In the bigger scheme of things I am "yesterday", old news, past my prime.   The New Democratic Party doesn't want or need me, my time, my money, my passion, my commitment or my vote.  You just want me out of your way.

I'm really sorry you feel this way.  Personally, I want and believe we need ALL good Democrats, and that our party is better when we have both seasoned warriors and new blood.  Your diary suggests you're the former.  I'd consider myself the latter.

But we largely want the same things and support the same policies, and either of these candidates is better than John McCain would be to accomplish our collective goals.  Maybe some have made stupid comments to suggest that you or others like you aren't wanted.  I think the vast majority of Democrats would disagree, as I do.

Anyway, I hope you change your mind, because we DO need you.  

by freedom78 2008-05-20 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

ok.  Who told you leave?  When?  And in what context?  I seriously doubt anyone actually told you to leave, unless you blackmailed and threatened to leave unless your candidate won.  In which case, "then go" really is the proper response.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-20 04:24PM | 0 recs
ciao
don't let the door hit you
by mikeinsf 2008-05-20 04:31PM | 0 recs
We're sorry to see you go...

But I suppose you're right about one thing,  there is no place this election for egocentric politics.  There is no place for the political interests of a few to take precedence over the pressing issues of all.  

The greatest thing about the Democratic party, is that we've always asked people to show their better natures. We've asked people to put aside their prejudices, selfish desires and economic interest to support the common good.

During my lifetime that has never been as important as it is right now.  When you leave there will still be people who are losing their homes, who don't know how to feed their families.  People who are dying in Iraq.  More people who can't afford healthcare everyday and will never be able to under a failed system.  People who advocate for torturing other human beings in the name of national security.  

Unfortunately these problems won't leave with you.  I say if you can live with the fact that you're putting your candidate preference over the needs of your fellow Americans, then so be it.  I can't let myself believe that a true democrat would defect under such a shallow pretext.  It's just too distasteful.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-05-20 04:38PM | 0 recs
This Garbage diary finaly fell of the Rec List

Diaries writen to help Republicans don't deserve to be on the Rec. List.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-20 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I have marched in DC for every Pro-Choice rally that took place during my lifetime.

Enjoy watching the supreme court under John McCain repeal Roe v. Wade.

I have marched in two New York City Anti-War rallies.

Enjoy your 100 years of war.

If you're going to espouse voting for an anti-Choice, pro-war candidate, I say goodbye and good riddance!

by chinapaulo 2008-05-20 05:01PM | 0 recs
So Obama is now the whole party?

It is amazing that after all your dedication to the party one race and one candidate managed to force you out.   A candidate that has nearly an identical voting record to Hillary Clinton (and where they differ Obama voted in line with other Democrats while Clinton broke with the party)  It is amazing that a call for change in the power of special interests, lobbyists and lack of transparency, has pushed you out of the party.

And if you do not know his policies you have chosen not to know.  They are available to see.   Just because Clinton has dumbed down policies she can include in her stump speech does not mean she has policies while he does not, or even that hers are better.

And why is it so important to get health care for every American, when that health care is still going to be for profit.  And people will still lose their homes because of health issues.  In fact since the plan of your candidate is going to have wage garnishment it may be more of a burden on the American worker.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but rather the one most adaptable to change. -Clarence Darrow

by Tumult 2008-05-20 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Kicked to the Curb

I can relate.  I finally gave in last week.  This has been a truly eye opening experience for me and I can't wait to see how this plays out.  I do not want any part of Barack Obama's success or failure.  He was never my pick, in fact he was never even a blip on my radar.  So I will keep my money (not that I have given as much as you) and I will chalk it up to a no-vote this year and I;d like to dedicate this no-vote to the msm and the blogosphere (you know who you are) and to the Obamas themselves. Hillary has nothing to do with my decision.  If she personally asked me to vote for BO or if she is on the ticket (which I know she won't be), I simply cannot vote BO.  And no, I will not change my mind come Nov.  Voting for me only.....    

by Ratatattat 2008-05-21 11:03AM | 0 recs

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