thanks for this post. I've been trying to say this for a long time. I caucused and voted in WA and I don't even think the caucus votes represent real state voters. I think they were young thugs (in WA they were all white so I'm not saying anything racial here. It's sad that I have to clarify a statement like this, but this is where the cries of racism have taken us.) bussed from state to state. They came in, create chaos, overwhelmed the registrars and tag teamed uncommitted and HIllary supporters. They pretended to be uncommitted and for Hillary so they could make dramatic shows of "defecting" or switching to Obama.
Most of it was legal and reprehensible. Hillary supporters left unable to wait or stand or make it through the chaos. It was not a great day for Democracy like BO would have everyone believe -- it was awful.
Women are starting a group and we will walk out of the convention if Obama is made the nominee. We will not accept him -- he is so clearly unqualified.
Gore v Bush 2000. It is unbelievable to me that all these so-called liberal progressives are advocating voter disenfranchisement. What the h*ll is wrong with our Party?
I didn't think it was possible for me to be more disgusted and to hate a politician more than I do GW. Congratulations Sen. Obama -- you disgust me more than the worst President in American history. A year ago I didn't think that it was remotely possible...and, I loved your candidacy at first. But, your tactics are reprehenisble and I'll never forgive you for what you've done to former Pres. Clinton and Sen. Clinton and the 17+ million people who support her. You, BO, are a narcissistic bully and you'll never get my vote. But, you don't care, because I'm just one of those typical white people who have been voting and fighting for civil rights, equal rights and economic equality for 30 years. What is it that your supporters say, "We don't need those old people, they'll be dead soon anyway."
I'm only 48, but to an 18 year old I guess that puts me on my last leg.
If Hillary is robbed of the nomination Democrats deserve to lose in November. I've never seen a smarter, better candidate in all my 30 years as a voting Democrat. I'd never vote for BO, and think he is the only person who could potentially be a worse president than Bush. If Democrats were going to be hateful to women and totally denigrate and dismiss them they should have, at the very least, put up a qualified substitute.
Right on! It's the outlying towns and cities that make or break the ge for democrats. We all must pray that the super delegates are aware that the city strategy has cost us two presidential elections...and the last Democratic victory came from a man who knew how to connect with rural voters.
Let's win again...let's pick grit and tenacity and hard work over smooth talk and lazy campaigning...let's win the the general election with Hillary.
Wow -- you really do have a bad case of Obama-love don't you?
Obama never said anything against Bill Clinton? Are you serious? He's been deriding his presidency for over a year now.
You think the press corp is fair and balanced? Please, that's the most insane thing I've ever heard. Most women can see it, although I understand many men are blind to it. I suggest you watch "Mad As Hell" by ShuttheFreudUp.
You don't think BO has hate in him? Have you actually listened to his angry speeches? He is bitter and biting and sounds like he is full of hate.
I didn't say you were supporting an illusion, I said his popularity is an illusion. By cutting out the voters of two populous states and inflating the value of caucus voters it gives BO the impression of popular support that isn't really there. Every one of his delegates represents something like 13,000 people while every one of Hillary's delegates represents 100,000 + voters. That's what I mean by his popularity is an illusion -- it's inflated unreasonably.
BO won't win in the ge...if you really cared about a progressive adenda ou'd support hillary.
BO's popularity and momentum and inevitable status is a caucus illusion. Those victories were coerced by an army of caucus soldiers. Add a deceitful and biased press corp, and false polls and an image of overwhelming popularity is created where mediocre interest, at best, exists.
His candidacy has been the most disgraceful deception I've ever witnessed -- it is on par with Bush's cabinet waving viles of uranium dust and selling America on the necessity of war. BO attacked and vilified the most successful Democratic President since FDR and made the GOP disparagement of Sen. Clinton look like respect.
I would never support a candidate who treats members of his own party so reprehensibly. Democrats were the ones being bullied and intimidated in caucuses. Democrats. With colleagues like Barack Obama who needs enemies -- he has enough hate for everyone.
Except that we aren't in this together anymore. That's the only point I was making in what you perceive as my "unelectability" argument. BO made a decision to wage a campaign that demonized Hillary and her supporters (and, ironically because it goes back to your initial response, blamed HRC for being negative.) as being witches, b*tches, monsters, ambitious, self-serving, etc., etc.
BO's entire campaign strategy was based on the idea that Hillary is divisive and "old" and America is hungry for a hopeful new politics. I
would have had more respect for him, as hateful as that message is, if he hadn't subsequently run a divisive and old-style campaign that aimed to get Democrats hating democrats.
Months ago I used to go to Dkos and try to debate the issues and I was showered with filth and garbage and sexism and puke. At the time I tried to tell these "democrats" don't do this because winning the nomination isn't the end game...the White House is. But no one cared and they continued to treat me and the candidate I supported as though we were the filthiest most disgusting people ever born because we wanted universal health care and have concerns about national security.
BO doesn't understand voters -- he doesn't understand regular people, working people. Maybe you don't either, I don't know. I'm one of those graduate degreed, highly successful, forever blue-collared and long-time Democratic loyalist. I believe in the principles of equality and civil rights. I'll never vote for BO, and I'm not alone. But the thing is -- my vote is one of the votes he was counting on and taking for granted. My vote is a vote you were taking for granted. I haven't voted for a republican since I could vote, and as much as I would love to see an African American President I would hate to see a misogynist and a bully rise to the highest office in the land. Women make up 59% of the electorate...I don't think you've treated women well enough to have earned enough of the support needed, and that's the fatal flaw in BO's candidacy.
It is such a crock to say that BO doesn't accept lobbyists money. He accepts plenty of money from big business, lobbyists, wall street, oil companies and all the rest. Big business is funding him because his economic policies are far more favorable to big business than Hillary's are. She's going after the oil companies, nuclear industry, insurance companies, etc. They're a little worried she'll be president.
Okay, your happy to discuss anything in a reasonable way, as am I. So, I'd restate what I originally talked about which is the current divide in the Democratic Party between the far-left and the moderates.
I'm trying to understand why the DNC is pushing for Obama to be the nominee even though he will most assuredly lose. What I see is a fight over what it means to be a Democrat -- what the Party stands for.
Barack is a perfect integration of liberal elite and African American so that he makes a great representative for the far-left. As far as I can tell his economics are centrist (or right), and his foreign policy and national security is far-left.
Hillary, on the other hand is more centrist (or right) when it comes to foreign policy and national security and far left economically.
Basically Democrats favor Hillary, but when you include republicans and independents in the democratic primary you get a pretty even split between the two.
We could have had a nomination process that put to the voters these questions -- what kind of national security and economic strategy do you prefer, but instead BO and his supporters made the primary about shrillary, billary, witch, b*tch, do anything to win, cackle, and on and on and on. It wasn't enough to treat a fellow Democratic Senator abusively, BO's supporters also trashed anyone and everyone that supported her and criticized BO. Freaking Democratic blogs banned and blocked users and comments that were pro-Hillary. That's how ridiculous the level of debate became.
Now, if BO is made the nominee he will definitely lose in the general because he's insulted and denigrated half of the Democratic Party. He willfully trashed the most successful Democratic President since FDR. Many of us absolutely hate the man. We don't feel hope, or inspired, or unified. He gave Hillary the finger for God's sake. He calls everyone who disagrees with him a racist and insults people's religious beliefs.
Hillary stood up for Move-on when the Senate wanted to condemn the Betray-us ad, and she goes to the State of the Black Union and has continued to fight for economic equality, women's rights and social justice for all. She represents, in my opinion, the best of the Democratic Party and she knows how to win.
Obama's failure to stand up for women while his supporters and the press were denigrating Hillary and her supporters, plus his threats to members of the Black Caucus to switch their endorsement from Hillary to him, plus the threats and intimidation against AAs, like Tavis Smiley who don't support him, makes him a weak and poor Democrat in my view. He doesn't represent a party that stands for civil rights, for women's rights, and is weak on foreign policy and national security. He won't win in November because many of us that's taking for granted won't support him.
I don't know what you are talking about when you say Hillary demonized BO. She's always said she respects him she just doesn't think he has experience and that his health plan is weak and won't cover everyone. He's demonized her, had his surrogates call her every name in the book, she hasn't done the same. But that's his strategy, blame Hillary for everything he does and is.
Pelosi is a joke. These BO supporters who feign neutrality and do their dirty work from that position disgust me. That's the tactic used by BO in caucus states...BO supporters pretend to be undecided and then "work over" the undecided group.
I just wish the DNC didn't think Democrats were so stupid as to believe Pelosi, Brazille, Clyburn (yeah, really, he says he's neutral), Dean, etc are all undecided.
Count MI and FL and Hillary's winning. She will win this thing and if the DNC is so out of touch that they refuse FL and MI then Hillary and her ardent supporters should start the True-Blue Democratic Party. (A name I liked proposed by someone at the taylor marsh site. If you're a Hillary supporter stop by.) Democrats won't win again for generations if FL and MI are disenfranchised so there's no harm in running as an "independent" or as a true-dem. BO's coalition is not as strong as caucuses and proportional representation would make you believe. Each of his pledged delegates represents 2000 votes, while Hillary's represent 15,000 or something.
What a sham this process has been.
Long story, made short -- I'll sign. Nancy has no business running the convention. Gore should do it.