Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Yeah.  An interesting evening.  Sarah Palin doesn't need to wonk the wonk so long as she can talk the talk.  An interesting predicament, and to an extent we're getting played by the McCain folks.  Exquisitely turning the tokenism knife on us, and we're responding improperly.  Oh, a lot of what we're saying is right, but the wrong people are saying it.

I read that Senator Clinton was personally insulted by McCain's selection of Sarah Palin, considering her a laughable stand-in.  I hope this is truly how Hillary Clinton views this, and I do so for two reasons.

And our future depends on this stuff

First, I agree with the assertion that Sarah Palin isn't fit to stand in for Hillary Clinton.  Hillary Clinton earned her stature in our party.  Sarah Palin is where she is because John McCain put her there, not the voters, not any voters.  Secondly, she's tweny years younger and actually has to list her time in the PTA as meaningful government experience.  Wow.

Senator Clinton, I didn't support you in the primaries.  I'm not your biggest fan, and I refuse to pretend otherwise, as I'm an honest guy and I will so remain.  That said, I respected you before all that, and I respect you more now.  We have other women in the party who can go after Governor Palin without raising the spectre of sexism, but I cannot think of anyone who could politically cripple her as you can.

The choice is yours.  Do we win or do we lose?  I hate to put it in such stark terms, but there you are.  If you think that the DNC is smart enough to work around this problem, well, you're probably wrong.  Obama and his people may be, but it's still a gamble.  Beating you was one thing.  Going after a second female opponent is a mess, an obvious trap.

Look at it this way, Senator Clinton.  We all know you vastly prefer Senator Obama and have endorsed him.  I do not question your honesty, and I appreciate your grace and pragmatism.  However, if Sarah Palin is elected you will find yourself in an awkward position in 2012 should you choose to run again.  Your exceptionalism is not defined by your feminity, but that is a component of it that Governor Palin shares.

You earned your meteoric rise.  Sarah Palin has not.  John McCain has shown you great disrespect and we now have an obstacle in our path that, while we may well deal with it without your special talents, we've got much better odds if you weigh in.

Kick in her teeth, please.  She tried to verbally do that to us tonight, and she's obviously willing to engage in partisan fistfighting.  I'd pay good money to hear you say the following, Senator Clinton, say it as only you can:

Obama said knock you out...

Tags: senator hillary clinton (all tags)




For bringing in the big guns?  For understanding, as sadly as it is, that the only thing these people seem to understand is strength.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-09-03 10:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Tips?

Uh, no. It sounds like you got excited and all hot and bothered and fell for the speech. Obama nor the DNC is going to run off and  ask Hillary to to save them. They don't need to. People who care about their families and children and this country are not going to buy McCain's policies. So instead of being sick about John McCain, some Republicans will cast a vote for him based on Sarah Palin. McCain had to shuffle on stage to suck up the enthusiasm expressed by the hard core Republicans in the hall. It was embarrassing. They were not applauding for him as much as they were relieved she wasn't a train wreck. She gave an acceptable speech, a great speech for Republican delegates. They got what they paid for. She delivered and let McCain get some of the positive spotlight. You really should ask a woman what she thinks about your diaries before you start ordering one around or even talking about women in general. Okay?

by Jeter 2008-09-03 11:32PM | 0 recs
What Jeter said.

Except he said it much more concisely than I was going to.

Democrats disgust me.  Where are your spines?  It's like everybody has some bipolar rapid-cycling disorder.  A few hours ago, everybody was laughing their asses off over Peggy Noonan saying it was "all over," and that Palin's choice was just "political bullshit."  Then I read this.

Uh, here are the facts.  Palin is a lousy veep choice.  But people worry that Republicans are too bright to make such an obviously horrible decision, so it must be secretly brilliant.

It's just stupid.  They are going to spin it like crazy.  Some people (mostly base) will love her.  Some won't.  A lot of people that used to respect John McCain for being above politics will feel a bit disappointed in him now.  And in November, nobody will care about Sarah Palin one way or the other and they will vote based on whether or not they want to trust the Republicans again.

by Dumbo 2008-09-04 12:50AM | 0 recs
Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

by Dumbo 2008-09-04 01:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

"John McCain has shown you great disrespect"

This theme is confusing me.  Do you think that McCain should have picked Hillary?  

Or what?

I'm not getting you.  Was it an insult because McCain picked a woman?  Was he somehow not allowed to pick a woman simply because Hillary lost the Democratic nomination?  Or what?  Had Hillary won would it have then been an insult to pick a woman?

This is all so borderline sexist.

by reebus 2008-09-04 02:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

John McCain picked a token, not a qualified woman.

As a woman, I can tell you that no woman wants to see another woman reach a powerful position only to be laughed at because she didn't earn it or deserve it. That diminishes every woman's attempts to be treated fairly and to achieve success in male-dominated roles.

John McCain may have had more credibility had he chosen a woman who actually had substantial experience. Or if he had a history of aligning with women in congress.

The only thing sexist going on here is John McCain thinking that a cute woman who acts like a man is going to win over female votes.

by Dari 2008-09-04 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

As a African-American male, I TOTALLY understand where you are comming from. When I listened to Palin last night, I said to  myself, "Hillary Clinton is awesome." And I didn't vote for Hillary.

It is NEVER goos when a member of a minority is thrust unreadily into the spotlight. When they fail, that makes it harder for the next person.

Sarah Palin is NOT helping the feminist cause....

by xodus1914 2008-09-04 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

McCain picked a woman because Hillary was not on the ticket. His choice was a political calculation to close "the gender gap" Had a woman been on the Democratic ticket, McCain would have chosen a boring white male because gender effects and identity politics effects are neutralized when both sides have a woman on the ticket. In that case, from a political point, McCain's best strategy would have been to hope that racial and gender bias would have worked in the Republican's favor.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-04 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

True, but if Hillary was on the top and didn't pick Obama, McCain would have gotten a Clarence Thomas-esque Black woman.

by xodus1914 2008-09-04 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Ben Stein tells you what is wrong with Palin.

Actually I think Alan Keyes would have been the GOP VP pick in such a case.

by emsprater 2008-09-04 11:49AM | 0 recs
Nope. J.C. Watts.

We had endless conversations about this on Dkos before it became apparent Hillary was losing.

by Dumbo 2008-09-04 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Bringing in the big guns too late to change the contest....

Way to go Team Obama...

She is too divisive because you wanted to pander to GOP voters...

Now that they are going home to Palin its please Hillary save us....

Please Hillary you are a horrible person unless you save us.....


by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 10:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

You know something?  This is the real world.  This is where things actually happen.  People live, people die, they get sick, they get laid off, they get pregnant, and they get shipped off to stupid fucking wars we didn't need to fight.

Boo-hoo.  Some people's feelings got hurt.  They'd better deal.  This shit's too important for petty personal grudges to get in the way.  The Republicans are playing for keeps, just as we'd thought they would, and if we don't stop 'em they'll keep getting more and more of us killed.

This isn't about Hillary.  This is about all of us.  If Senator Clinton is in the best position to deal with a problem then she should absolutely do so.

And I trust her to do exactly that.  She loves this country at least as much as I do, and I love it to tears.  She sees the danger.

You don't get to hold my primary vote over me.  I voted my conscience and I'd rather lose having voted honestly than win any other way.  That said, that's a choice I doubt I'll have to make.

This is our year.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-09-03 11:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Its too important for petty feuds.

Admit Obama dropped the Hillary card and move on.

Trying to blackmail her into being a puppet is counter productive.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:39AM | 0 recs
Dtaylor, I admit it.

We dropped the Hillary card.  Bad enough that we didn't make her the nominee, but we also forgot to make her the running-mate.  So we suck.  I apologize for sucking.

Now that I admitted it, can I move on now?

by Dumbo 2008-09-04 01:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Dtaylor, I admit it.

You aren't the one who posted the Hillary is my puppet diary.

It is inappropriate for people who opposed Hillary and called for her to drop out to be continuing Hillary needs to do this type posts.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 01:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Dtaylor, I admit it.


"Boo-hoo.  Some people's feelings got hurt.  They'd better deal.  This shit's too important for petty personal grudges to get in the way."

Aren't the one who just wrote that McCain somehow 'insulted' Hillary by picking a female running mate?

by reebus 2008-09-04 02:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Dtaylor, I admit it.

"It is inappropriate for people who opposed Hillary and called for her to drop out to be continuing Hillary needs to do this type posts."

We defeated Hillary by painting her as a typical politician who only does the expedient things, the pandering things.  We painted her as soulless, as a shell waiting to be filled by the expectations of the voters.

If she is truly what we claimed she was, then she would now sit back and let Palin rip Obama to shreds.  By calling on her to step up now, reaperbot and those like him are essentially admitting that they was lying when calling Hillary all those names.

It's very hypocritical.  And I'll not be a part of it.

by reebus 2008-09-04 02:44AM | 0 recs

"There are two wings of the democratic party - the adults who voted for Clinton and the diaper babies who voted for Obama".

-Reebus, before he started pretending to be an Obama supporter.


by Jordache 2008-09-04 11:24AM | 0 recs
I guess that makes me still able to comment here
I supported Hillary, even tho I didn't care for some of the hairsplitting you're doing here, out of that campaign.  She's an extremely intelligent & experienced PERSON, and will do her part now. I honestly believe she has the country's interests at heart, and, has said so.
She's gonna cast her support where it belongs, as we all should; in the interest of us all; without having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for hackneyed and stale rhetoric (even their own party knew Sarah's speech by heart) of the gop. Crikey, if old repug sound bites were a grizzly, that speech gnawed thinking persons' minds up and spit them out, the second the party fateful(sic) finished winding that doll/hack up (gender neutral comment), and the (tried & untrue) words started coming out.
I don't think protecting your "bonus baby" rookie is gonna turn out so well when facing the "big league" bats of reality and a miffed/upstaged media. Giving the same packaged & disingenuous answers Mitt would have given, will only show her for what she is: "4 more".
I can't recall any big league manager ever asking their team to take it "easy" on any rookie.
by bullshipper 2008-09-04 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

by dtaylor2,
I have noticed there exist two factions.  For clarity I am in the Puma faction some would say the sore losers faction.

Just so people know what dt really is.

by venician 2008-09-04 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Wow, a true-blue Obamabot lecturing Hillary supporters on the "real world" of politics. The mind boggles.

It's not the primary vote of Obama supporters that some people resent, it's the character assasination and hypocrisy that came with it. But then, you know that don't you?

by chopsui 2008-09-04 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Clearly you're one of those people who would see the whole nation suffer to be able to whisper "I told you so" before falling asleep at night.

by rfahey22 2008-09-03 11:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I told you so.

by EdgeCurrent 2008-09-04 05:37AM | 0 recs

You are really starting to get old.

by SocialDem 2008-09-03 11:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please
Ya know, you confuse me. You extend an olive branch by writing a diary about those things that you like and admire about Obama, and then do a sarcasm-filled drive-by like this one when someone who did not vote for Hillary suggests that she can be of assistance on the campaign trail.
We've got to take an all-hands-on-deck approach to this thing. You believe she should have been the nominee, and you believe that she should've been picked for VP. You've made that perfectly clear and I respect those opinions.
But Hillary's a democrat for a REASON, and that reason is NOT her own self-aggrandizement. She's made that perfectly clear throughout her life AND during her speech last week.
Personally, I think Clinton is chomping at the bit to take this two-bit Alaskan lightweight down HARD. It's EASY to mock and condescend and belittle. That's why people with small minds do it.
And for this right-wing, christo-facist, anti-woman, anti-community, anti-science, anti-environment, anti-REALITY person to claim Hillary's hard-earned mantle without lifting a finger because they share a set of genitals is a grotesque mockery of feminism and nearly ALL feminist causes.
by EvilAsh 2008-09-03 11:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please


Because the Republicans really do care about sexism.  Like John McCain, who said to Lily Ledbetter, so sorry, you don't deserve to file a lawsuit because you got passed over for a promotion.  Barack Obama, that sexist weasel, was an original sponsor of that legislation

Sarah Palin had it right, too, when she said women need to stop complaining about sexism (or in Hillary's case, whining) and just be better and stronger than men.  That's the kind of mavericky change we need!

by TL 2008-09-04 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

So, uh, the diarist you are commenting on is representative of "Team Obama"?  Nope.

I think that Team Obama has shown poise, a calculated poise, during this shitstorm. A charactistic measured cool that incidently must have driven you nuts six months ago because the game that Team Obama is playing is on so many levels above and beyond the Rove/Cheney "Bush" league that Team McCain and for that matter Team Hillary play in.

Team Obama will certainly deploy Hillary to support the ticket, and she will perform strongly. You have a valid point to make with the diarist here, fair enough, but your phrasing shows how deeply you and so many others have misunderstood 'Team Obama'.

by Iago 2008-09-04 11:08AM | 0 recs
Hillary could do it

but she's earned a break, IMO.

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz would be good.

by Neef 2008-09-03 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Agreed.  Given the context, HRC is the PERFECT weapon against Palin.

by fogiv 2008-09-03 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

She was the perfect woman against McCain too.

But Obama would never choose Hillary for a leadership role in his campaign.

Too bad he would veto this too...

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Go pick up your points at john mccain's website.  Does this get you a mug?

by TL 2008-09-04 06:57AM | 0 recs
Why are you still here,

you braying jackass?  

Just wondering.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-09-04 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I'm honestly going to disagree.  Hillary Clinton can and will help the ticket, but I don't think you can trot her out and get her to banish the Hydra that is Sarah Palin.  The optics are bad, and the media will run with it in ways that are sure to play poorly to the very people that Palin is trying to rally.

No, the Obama/Biden ticket will need to take her head on, and they can.  Don't panic based off of one night.  Palin has both ethical and character issues back home that aren't going away.  She's getting the type of introduction to the American people that Obama had to go through, and it's a painful process.  Obama did it while receiving 18 million votes, while she hasn't gotten a single one outside of the state of Alaska at this point.  She's got a lot of cramming to do.

We won't need Hillary to take her down.  Biden is more than up to that job.

by hello world 2008-09-04 03:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Obama, pick up that 3 AM phone Clinton.

by mjc888 2008-09-04 03:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary Clinton comes out to discredit Palin.

As far as bemoaning the ticket - I do agree the entire ticket was a mistake & we fell into the GOP's  trap perfectly BUT it is what it is - it is time to stop bemoaning it & fight to win, if for nothing else but to try and save the Supreme Court.

by jrsygrl 2008-09-04 03:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I don't think the GOP could be considered that myopic.  At this point we'll never know, but based on past performances I suspect that they had plenty of slime to throw at Hillary Clinton had she been the presidential or VP nominee.

They've proven they will do anything to get elected and this reactionary pick would have been replaced by an equally reprehensible choice no matter who was on the ticket.  You have to admit in this game of point - counterpoint at least we are still being the ones reacted to; a far better position than we've been in during previous elections.  

It's unfortunate they're good at offense and defense--their own weakness being actual governance.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-09-04 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Actually we already knew what the GOP was going to throw at Clinton, it is an act they have been working for over 3 decades b/c she was their biggest threat. With Obama we had no clue. Regardless it is what it is.  That doesn't mean we have a bunch of diaries saying everything is great & ignoring problems if they exist; it means just the opposite let's deal with reality & fight.

by jrsygrl 2008-09-04 04:10PM | 0 recs
HRC is a little handcuffed as to what

she can go after Palin on; she couldn't hit Palin on her lack of experience or her readiness to take on the presidency or VP role given her statements in the primary (Biden is handcuffed in the same way).

The danger there too is for it to look transparent if Obama utilizes HRC as his hitwoman on Palin; HRC could come off as a bully.

by Blazers Edge 2008-09-04 03:25AM | 0 recs

All she (or Biden) have to do is saythat they were wrong about Obama in the primary.  

The Republicans are already using what they said in the primary against Obama, so Clinton coming out and telling it like it is has no downside.

by Dracomicron 2008-09-04 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Bulldagger

That would be stupid to say. She can easily attack Biden without taking back anything she said in the past. For Christ sakes the GOP does it everyday without a problem!

by jrsygrl 2008-09-04 04:12PM | 0 recs
She could say she is wrong on:

- A womans right to choose
 - Global Warming
 - Creationism
 - Community Organizers
 - Abuse of power as governor
 - Lieing/hypocrisy about earmarks
 - A continuation of Bush policies
 - No answer on economic issues
 - Wrong on a host of other womens issues

She doesn't have to talk about experience. Everyone can see that she is not qualified.  Hillary should criticize her the same way she would criticize Pawlenty, Lieberman, or Romney saying that it is more of the same.

by Bri 2008-09-04 01:09PM | 0 recs
Yes, she is the one

To go on attack against Palin. And she does not have to do it in a negative way. She could just say that while the speech was great, it offered little truth of what Palin believes in. Then she could go on listing the essential points where her disagreement with Palin is at the other pole.

The beauty of the move will be that since the Repubs are making a play for the suburban women who strongly supported CLinton, Repubs will not be able to attack her.


by ann0nymous 2008-09-04 05:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

More Hillary More!  Smiles! Unity! We hated you then, but we love you now! Spunk - you got it! Grit! Character!  Who knew?  

We thought you were the devil in a pantsuit and told you so, but, but, now the SS Obama is foundering on the rocks and needs, guess who?  YOU, Hillary - the one who we said was so irrelevant, so yesterday, so corrupt, so triangu-langu-langu-lating!!  

So go get 'em tiger.  It's all up to you now, and don't you dare let us down! We savaged you with our own sexist shit way back when in the primary, but we so love us some Palin-bashing Hillary now!

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-09-04 05:50AM | 0 recs
So do you want to win

or just wallow in your own schadenfreude?

by looty 2008-09-04 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: So do you want to win

Ah, belittling me in German!  I can't imagine why they say Obama supporters are elitist...

As far as wanting to win, it's nice to see the bareknuckle realism finally coming to the fore with you people.  Hmm - wasn't it all about changing the way politics are done, putting aside partisan rancor, establishing a new kind of politics? Cause you all spewed that shit with such fervor through the primaries.  The truth finally comes out - it wasn't about changing anything, it was really just about winning, at any cost.  You are all as cutthroat and phony as you insisted the Clintons were.

I wanted to win too, that is why I supported Hillary Clinton, the only candidate who could really deliver and win this thing.  She never said she was going to remake politics and she didn't seduce anyone with bullshit word souffles.  But it was not to be.

The fact that Obama is the candidate Democrats have right now is your fault.  He stinks on hot ice, and nothing Hillary can do will save him. But if you think I am rejoicing in the face of your suffering you are dead wrong.  Obama did nothing to unify the party, and we all will pay a dear price for it in the end.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-09-04 10:06AM | 0 recs
Obama's choice of Biden promoted McCain's choice of Palin. Without one the other wouldn't have happened. So now the Rs are excited and enthusiastic, money is pouring in, and the energy level has gone from zero to out-of-sight.
Don't even think of Hillary 'fixing' it. The ball is Obama's court. Others can't do his dirty work.
This is his to lose, and it seems that losing this is quite likely.
by Marjoriest 2008-09-04 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: AND...

 Your assertion about the likely outcome is wishful and vengeful nonsense, a dream you cling to of some future opportunity to shout 'I told You So!' which every day becomes more and more unlikely. The Palin Veep pick is ironic salt in the wounds of the gender-blinded sexist zealots whose illogical/pathological support for McCain is antithetical to everything that Hillary ever stood for. You have my pity, but not my sympathy - and you should go forth to sites who cater to such insanity and cease the infestation of MyDD forevermore.

by QTG 2008-09-04 03:04PM | 0 recs
Re: So do you want to win

and using it incorrectly, it means enjoying the suffering of your friends.  Didn't sound too friendly.  

by anna shane 2008-09-04 01:50PM | 0 recs
Thank you so much...
I have never been able to come up with the phrase that reflects what I think when I read something like the steaming pile you laid above.  And, yet here it is buried in your tiny tome "stinks on hot ice" oh it does it really does.
Thank you.
by tonedevil 2008-09-04 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: So do you want to win

I agree with you in principal, but I can't afford to pay the price on this debt that others incurred. If we have another 4 years with the GOP it is going to be even worse & it will effect many of us personally.  I saw this coming but whatever, we are here. I am not willing to cut my nose off to spite my face.

by jrsygrl 2008-09-04 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Senator Clinton isn't the Democratic nominee's pit bull. That's Joe Biden's job.

What the Democrats need to be concerned about is voters who will base their decisions on which party was willing to nominate a strong female candidate on the national ticket and then stand up to her in the face of the sexist media onslaught.

That choice may not favor the Democratic Party and that should be a concern. There may be voters thinking, "Sorry. You had your chance. See ya..."

by hwc 2008-09-04 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

While there is truth to what you say, any voter who supported Hillary based on her accomplishments and her policies who would even contemplate voting for McCain is simply not thinking.

McCain / Palin is the anti-Hillary ticket, even if one of them is equipped with indoor plumbing.
It stretches all credibility to think Hillary supporters would vote for such a ticket, unless they too were simply supporting a candidate with breasts, and not a candidate of accomplishments.

Hillary supporters swayed by the choice of Palin are simply sexist, plain and simple.

by emsprater 2008-09-04 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Well, that's the worry for the Democrats, isn't it? The possibility that they no longer have a free pass with voters who judge based on willingness of the competing parties to promote and defend female candidates.

For example, my daughter is 22 years old. She just saw her first female candidate nominated for vice-president of the United States.

The Democratic Party continues to talk the talk, but it would be hard to argue that they are walking the walk on women's empowerment. To their credit, the Republican Party's big guns made it very clear yesterday that sexist attacks on their women candidates will not stand.

by hwc 2008-09-04 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Oh, please.  That's why their delegates are walking around on national television wearing buttons that say "I'm voting for the hot chick," and "Coldest state, hottest governor."  

Identity politics makes my eyes bleed.  They Democrats should nominate a female candidate just to empower women?  Good, I nominate me.  

by trustno1 2008-09-04 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

If your daughter thinks the nomination of the equivalent of Phylis Schaffley for the office of VP is a good move for women, she's thinking with the wrong body part.

By the way, there was a woman nominated to the office of VP before now, and by the Democratic Party, you know, the party who stands up for equality instead of standing up for going back in time.

by emsprater 2008-09-04 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I don't think we need to panic, and I don't think that Palin will be as difficult for the Obama campaign as some seem to believe.  She's a fluke,and if you looked at the audience there last night, where did all those scared old white folks come from? ( Note: I am over 50, and white as flour, and have decired attempts to use age and race, but I mean, did you see that visual?)

I'm skeptical of how the GE will turn out, given that all I see are McCain signs where I live, one of the bluer counties in FL. But I am hopeful, and I doubt that Palin will be the 'holy grail' that the GOP thinks she will be.

I find it aggravatingly disgusting for those who worked so hard to discredit Hillary by any means necessary to now be calling her name for help, an action not unlike the anecdotal atheist calling for God at the last minute.  It's quite frankly slimy.

by emsprater 2008-09-04 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Would you care, Empsrater, to show where I "worked so hard to discredit Hillary by any means necessary"?  If that was your contention, anyway.

I never did that.  I expressed my considerable dislike for the notion of her being our nominee, but that's no different than what many Clinton and Edwards supporters said about Barack Obama.  And I doubt very many of them would go to "any means necessary" either.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-09-04 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

You espouse a tactic that is being not just considered, but highly encouraged by some folks who were decidedly anti Hillary during the primaries.  I do not contend that you personally are to blame for the labeling of Hillary as a 'say or do anything' corporatist who ran a racist campaign, but some of the folks shaking the pom poms to your new cheer were there shaking those same pom poms for those cheers also.

You are one of the more reasonable anti Clintonites, but let's face reality, there were times here (say right after her last primary victory) when folks made some comments about her that pale in comparison to what they now say about Sarah Palin, and now they want Hillary to come back and slay the Palin beast?

What happened to all those early Obama supporters (now I am also anObama supporter for the GE) who 'just wanted the Clintons to go away, forever'. You know they existed, they still do, they just sing a different tune now.   They'd still do anything to defeat her, if necessary.

by emsprater 2008-09-04 10:53AM | 0 recs
FYI; the right doesn't like Hillary

I read that Senator Clinton was personally insulted by McCain's selection of Sarah Palin, considering her a laughable stand-in
If this is how Hillary Clinton sees this situation then she is wrong. Palin wasn't chosen to replace Clinton, Palin was chosen as an equalizer toward the "history making" argument. That being said, I do think a very small amount of Clinton loyalists will support McCain simply due to the fact that there is a women on the ticket.

by soyousay 2008-09-04 08:21AM | 0 recs
I don't see what the big deal is here, actually.

Hillary will do pretty much whatever she's asked to do by the Obama campaign and the DNC. I'd like to think nobody here has any doubts about that.

The one thing she won't be this Fall is a loose cannon, IMHO.

Whatever happens here, it's going to be up to Obama and Co. decide.

This diary should be directed more towards Obama and Axelrod than Hillary, IMHO.

And, if it is up to Hillary to "handle" this, I'd say it'd take here a good few hours and a few well-scheduled press events.

In a battle of wits--as the old saying goes--between Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin, Sarah's defenseless! (And, I'm not underestimating Palin; it's just that Clinton's that good and that respected; and Palin's got a long, long way to go before she'd even be considered to be holding a candle to Clinton, and that's in the general public's eye, regardless of Party affiliation.)

This is all up to Obama and Axelrod, in terms of how this matter plays out, and in terms of how they use Hillary on this issue (or not).

That's my take, anyhow.

by bobswern 2008-09-04 08:43AM | 0 recs
Senator Biden, Palin's just tried to push you

around - it's time to bloody her nose.

by activatedbybush 2008-09-04 09:00AM | 0 recs
Issues people issues.

We have the issues on our side.  It does not matter who delivers the rebuttel.  Probably Joe Biden, since that is the VP Candidate's job.  Saying that we HAVE to have a woman deliver a message is ridiculous.  And it will make us look that way.  We have great candidates, the issues, and the polls.  Let's not all get carried away

by xenontab 2008-09-04 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Sarah is a political strategy.  

Any attack on her she will turn onto Barack.  She did that in her speech, and so she's John's attack machine. He wants to bring up Barack's shortcomings without getting his own hands dirty, and Sarah can do it as a defense against herself.  

It's not because she's a woman, or that she has little experience, or that her daughter is pregnant, or that she has five kids or that she belongs to an intolerant religious group, or that she has wacky ideas about polar bears and guns and shooting from airplanes, it's all of those things, because any reference they will use to remind folks of the primary and Barack's weaknesses. She wants to be Annie Oakley, for her it's a compliment (and from one perspective it is).  

I think Barack needs to publicly consult with Hillary not as a token to her supporters, but because she's smart and he needs to tap the smartest and the bestest, whether or not they're girls, whether or not they were once opponents.  It's showing what caliber of people he listens to that can help him.  

by anna shane 2008-09-04 10:25AM | 0 recs
Obama consults with many "girls"

And his VP was once his opponent.

by JJE 2008-09-04 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama consults with many "girls"

don't defend what he has done, that's not an  issue, think to what he can do.  You don't want to be complacent, he can win the PUMA's and it would not be that hard.  And he can easily win those who can't vote for either and say they'll vote down ticket because they want to send a message.   If the message is already received, than there is no reason to stay home.  

You have to realize that the PUMA's have a point. You can say, as many do, they ought not be thinking in such terms since the stakes are so high, and remind everyone of Ralph defeating Al, but human nature being what it is, there are still some too angry to vote for Barack, and those can be won.  Think of it the other way, if she'd won how many of his supporters would have been too angry to vote for her?  

I'm angry with him also, my way is to punish the DNC by withholding donations and volunteer hours.  Just because I plan to vote for him anyway, however, does not mean he has no obligation to consider my point of view, it's too widely shared.  

Perhaps he thinks he has nothing to apologize for, he really thinks Hillary was out to hurt him and wanted the job over his dead body, but if he thinks that, he doesn't know her, and it doesn't help him make the case that he will hire the best and consult with the best.

This is real advice for him, and it's long past time where his most avid supporters keep the primary alive. the pugs will be doing that, doing their best to remind us of what happened in the primary.  Everyone knows that had Hillary won, Barack would be in the number two slot with her.  She said it very clearly.  Everyone knows that she pulled her punches (since the Atlantic Monthly story anyway) and that she took way to may unfair hits from the media, and from Barack. His response to the JFK comment was, that kind of talk doesn't belong in a presidential race.  He accepted that meaning, and I can't tell how offensive that was, and how stupid it looked.  It seemed to me that he was driving away her supporters by giving credence to such an ugly motive.  do you know how much respect he would have received from her supporters if he's said, that's an ugly thing to think and I'll fire anyone in my campaign who impugns ugly motives to my esteemed opponent?  I mean, lots. I was waiting for that, I thought that he'd see that as just the right opportunity to denounce Hillary Hate.  

Now everyone knows more about her, and she has higher approval ratings than either Barack or John. It's time for Barack to show his approval of her character. The best way to defend against Sarah is to utilize Hillary's brain, and admit either that he'd made incorrect assumptions about her or he said things in the heat of the primary that he now regrets.  

He'd show a great character by doing that and totally surprise those who think he's not a nice man.

by anna shane 2008-09-04 01:27PM | 0 recs
who's talking about PUMAs?

Not me.  You said that Obama needs to meet with smart people who are "girls" and who were once opponents.  I simply pointed out that he has done both.  

I was hoping this strategic advice wasn't just another segue into yet another rehash of the litany of wrongs you think he's done and the penance he must do to correct it - all just because you want to help him, of course - but alas, it was not to be.

by JJE 2008-09-04 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: who's talking about PUMAs?

help him WIN. Help him get everyone together to work for his election. I don't think that's a small matter at all.  

by anna shane 2008-09-04 01:46PM | 0 recs
Neither do I

but that wasn't what your comment was about.  It was  mostly about how he needs to apologize and a bunch of about PUMAs that you just brought up out of nowhere.  I realize you think this is strategic advice, but some kind of public sideshow where Obama "admits" that he ran a dirty campaign and apologizes for it strikes me as quite terrible advice.

by JJE 2008-09-04 01:52PM | 0 recs

The blogosphere, as is its wont, has followed the media and has gone off the deep end on Palin.  She was the fresh new thing this week but she'll be stale in another.  

by JJE 2008-09-04 11:12AM | 0 recs
Clinton has given enough

That's my comment.  This is Obama's game.  He picked Biden- let them handle this.

by easyE 2008-09-04 11:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

I feel insulted.

During the primary you insisted that HRC's being a woman should have no effect on her value as a leader.  Now you want her to beat up on Palin because she's a woman?  It seems like you're suggesting that gender only plays a factor in a negative way, not a positive one.  You want a catfight ... you want HRC to fight a woman like only a woman can.  Yuck.  

Really, I agree with you that Hillary is an experienced woman and makes Palin look like a feather by comparison.  I'm all for HRC helping the ticket, like you.  But do you see how you are call on HRC to "take down" Palin as some kind of woman's work, and how that might feel demeaning to women after the party (you included) rejected Hillary in a more constructive ("building up") role as a nominee/vp?  


by JJay 2008-09-04 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Senator Clinton, Line One Please

Your right. Hillary DOES absolutely need to speak up but whats pretty pathetic is the fact that it seems as though she has to be  ASKED  to do so.Like you've just done.

by Lodgemannered 2008-09-04 12:06PM | 0 recs
your nose, in spite of your face

Talented team (Dems), no teamwork, up to this point. We all can't be the star. Get over it.

Old hat and rhetoric (Reps), teamwork in the mire of inepitude. Some lipstick, perfume(she said it 1st), & money; and you've got Scott Pippen/Sarah Palin helping Mike Jordan/John McOut-to-lunch succeeding.

Try and get your sh*t together, Dems; before they make this work, again.....

by bullshipper 2008-09-04 05:22PM | 0 recs


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