How Did We Not See This Coming?

[Last night I posted a diary on this topic.  It was not well-received, and I think I can clean it up a tad so as to make it more palatable.]

Yep. Some of our errant colleagues have met the Republicans, and my god is it hilarious to watch.

I can barely contain my glee as I see posters at RedState try as hard as they can not to slam Senator Clinton and her husband. It's not easy for some of them (they go on to thrash Senator Clinton at length), given that they've had a few decades to hold a grudge. Nothing wrong with that, it's their opinion (and its one of the things that makes us Democrats different from the Republicans).

But you've really got to read this. The Clinton supporters and the Redstaters are not getting along all that well indeed. 008/jun/20/how_to_reach_out_to_clinton_v oters_using_specific_issues

It's long. It's messy. However, it's pure comedy gold.

Says one RedStater:

"With regard to the current level of whining about the "dirty" campaign BO ran, Hillary's folk were right out there with stuff that, if it were discussed by Republicans, would have likely led to urban rioting.

In the world of national politics, the Clintons are about the most dishonest and unethical group ever to breech the National scene. That they've gotten their heads handed to them, and with any luck self destructed in the process, is simply schadenfreud of the first order."

And that's one of the milder bits. I really have to laugh when I see stuff like this. Did these folks not understand that the Republicans actively disrespect Senator Clinton, whereas Obama supporters may have been unkind but they don't actually hate her? Some of these RedStaters positively thrash the Clintons, in a thread where they're trying to come up with a plan to convince them to vote for McCain!.  They are incoherent on this, and it will only serve to enrage these already angry Democrats.

Another quote: "Please stop now! It's too late to save the shoes, but if you stop now I might be able to save the pants. The incredulity of your assertion that Hillary is squeeky clean and pure as the driven snow is too much to swallow."

It's important, I think, that we all remember why it is most of us here are not Republicans.  Our fighting has been pretty vicious at times, being within the family.  We've said some things we probably shouldn't have, and we've hurt one another.  That doesn't mean that we're enemies.  We have real ones.  As our errant colleagues are no doubt learning, the Republicans flat out dislike (if not hate) Senator Clinton.  They will find little comfort among them indeed.

Please, I'm begging you guys, DO NOT post there, and DO NOT tell them where you came from. I'm not posting this to denigrate RedState or to harm their efforts to pursue conservative causes. I strongly disagree with them, but that's their site and we should no more troll their house than they should ours. I just want you guys to see how its going for our errant colleagues, as they've reached out.

Tags: Friction, left, Popcorn, Right (all tags)




If i wanted to read comments from redstate, i'd go to redstate

by sepulvedaj3 2008-06-26 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: really

Fair enough.  You still bothered to post in the diary.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: really

Oh my god.  I recognize a LOT of names there - folks from TalkLeft, for example.  If anyone says "go back to red state" to someone, they may not be joking.

Anyway, it's hilarious.  It starts off well "I heard an Obama supporter call Paula Abdeles [the PUMA who's last political campaign was to try to keep the descendants of Sally Hemmings out of the Thomas Jefferson reunions] and poor dears and such, and then it just goes apeshit.

Try as they might, they can't hide the fact that they can't stand the Clintons.  Much moreso than Obama.  They're reaching out to Clinton supporters, but they're doing it with clothespins over their nose and tongs.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: really




It just keeps getting better.  07rescue and Susannah, two PUMAs, are just getting eviscerated.  And they're taking it!

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: really

Ha ha. It is hilarious how those two posters are trying to be diplomatic but then trying subtle blackmail(which wont work) by saying that redstaters are alienating potentital McCain voters by their comments. Yeah, whine redux.

It's like they can't believe they can't get a lot of  blind love on any site.

by Pravin 2008-06-26 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: really

You might be surprised at that is going on behind the scenes there.

Unlike this site, Red State allows people to contact one another, and the conversation has been surprising. There are points where people can actually have a civil discussion when their needs intersect. Many of my posts at Red State have been dog whistles for cooperation where it is strategic to do so, and have been very productive. I couldn't care less about the occasional Hillary hater, there are far, far more vicious Hillary haters here on this blog, and DK.

I can at least excuse the Red Staters, because they have ideological objections to Hillary, so their hatred serves their purposes, while I have nothing but disdain for the progressives who just eviscerated the most progressive candidate in the race. That is sheer idiocy, and self injury.

I have been far more viciously, stupidly attacked on this site on a particularly asinine level, with zero merit, along with countless other Clinton supporters, and yes, we are "enemies" at this point. Real enemies, because I do not countenance the extensive, systematic threats of violence and death that have dogged Clinton supporters, especially high profile supporters, all over the country. If I ever track down any of the purveyors of these threats I promise there will be indictments and criminal charges brought against them. I am not fooling around here. Voter fraud and intimidation is no joke. That is how much of an enemy I am. We are not on the same side, I don't believe "the ends justify the means" and if I catch anyone who has been supporting the illegal efforts made to harm the Clinton campaign, they will face prosecution. I will not rest until those people are brought to justice.

There is no way, ever that I will accept the things that were done to harm Clinton in this primary, and neither should any decent citizen of this country. I will never support Obama.

It went way too far over the line, and those who I am addressing know who they are.

Comments made against me here have zero effect on me, no more than RedStaters who hate. I laugh at them, if I even bother to read the drivel, which I have not for months, and keep to pursuit of justice.

by 07rescue 2008-06-26 02:31PM | 0 recs
Re: really

Okay.  Great.  Good hunting and all that.

I'll be working every bit as hard as you, but with significantly less crazy.  I won't bother trying to be substantive, as I don't imagine a single thing I could write would be read with an open mind.  As such:

You are delusional in your account of what has happened.  The internet is not a safe place for people who are so credulous and impressionable.

Threats of violence, you say?  While I'm sure that some cranks have made crank calls, what makes you think that Senator Clinton, her staff, and her supporters have received more than those of Senator Obama?  Are there numbers, facts and figures released by some fair-minded authority?

You are entitled to feel every bit the victim as you like.

You lost to a bunch of kids and African Americans.  We beat you.  We, and the united Democratic party, will beat you (and your Republican friends) again.  And Senator Clinton will help us.  Unlike you, she lives in reality.

Again, good luck.  It's important that we all do as our conscience dictates.  I just wish your hadn't turned your brain off to unhelpful truths.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: really

Believe me, I admire anyone willing to take that level of abuse in the name of a goal.  I had forgotten how much Republicans hate Hillary Clinton until I clicked on that link.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 03:57PM | 0 recs
"See What You Made Me Do!"

by Dumbo 2008-06-26 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: really

PROVE IT. Before you hurl outlandish accusations at the Obama camapaign,
give me some evidence via substantive links that

  1. Threats hillary received were more serious than the usual crank calls and occasional real threat every single major campaign receives.
  2. What are these burning downs. How do you know it wasn't republicans. How do you know it wasnt some of Hillary's people ala Karl Rove's style of self sabotage(this is not to be confused with Hillary herself involved in it, it could be a random idiot Hillary supporter who wanted to engender support).

AND FORGET ALL THIS. LET US ASSUME THAT YOUR ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE. Show me evidence that these incidents took place in such large numbers as you claim.

By the way, don't even bother accusing me of being a blind Obama fan even if I consider myself his supporter. Just take a minute and look at my diary history.

Just use a little common sense, if you were accusations were indeed true, do you seriously think Hillary Clinton would take all of that lying down? She used everything in the book towards the end, and she couldn't have used that? I remember a big deal made out of two jerks who had no connection with her rivals in the democratic party  who asked her to iron their shirts.

by Pravin 2008-06-27 02:30AM | 0 recs
Re: really

He's just trying to let us know what's happening on the other side. What's wrong with that?

by venician 2008-06-26 06:31AM | 0 recs

Do you want to see stuff from NoQuarter also?

by gaf 2008-06-26 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: NoQuarter

Let me put my HazMat suit and my protective goggles on first....

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

More enemy of my enemy is my friend nonsense.  Entertaining indeed, but I don't think anyone communing with Redstate is really a member of the Democratic coalition.

by rfahey22 2008-06-26 06:44AM | 0 recs
I feel bad

for the Clinton supporters AND the Republicans in that thread. I kinda want to go to RedState and chat policy with them, though.

by sricki 2008-06-26 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I feel bad

I'd advise against it, frankly.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 06:51AM | 0 recs

I once, under the mistaken assumption that since Kos fpers would crosspost there they must be sane, walked over there. Got banned within two posts. They don't like democrats.

by RisingTide 2008-06-26 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I feel bad

I'm fighting the urge myself.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:46AM | 0 recs

Don't take this the wrong way, but you misunderstand people.  There is a natural urge to want to educate people that you think are just one flickering light bulb from seeing the truth.  But some people really aren't eager to have their minds changed.  Good intentions will just earn their contempt.

by Dumbo 2008-06-26 06:29PM | 0 recs
No, you misunderstood my intentions.

I don't want to educate them, but if I thought they wouldn't ban me (which they probably would), I would still like to talk policy with them -- not to change their minds, but in the interest of a good debate. People posting on RedState aren't going to vote for Obama or come over to the Democratic party. That doesn't make them any less interesting to talk to.

But again, I imagine they'd just ban me, so there isn't much point. So who exactly do I misunderstand? Republicans, or people in general?

by sricki 2008-06-26 06:48PM | 0 recs
Here's one place I hang out. splay.php?f=49
It's a gaming forum, but that part of the forum is for topical non-gaming bullshit that is sometimes contentious with the conservatives there.  The IQ level goes up and down, depending on who's active.  I'm Doc Doofus.  I have been a regular there for years, but have not been as active lately, having focused more on MyDD.  
by Dumbo 2008-06-27 12:48AM | 0 recs
Check out this little gem:

"There is a dark underbelly to the primary campaign, unreported by the media - many threats of violence, actual violence, police being called to protect women Clinton supporters, death threats, Clinton campaign offices being burned down, drive by shootings through office windows, etc.,"

Campaign offices burned down, drive by shootings?

Yeah, unreported by the media, because THAT would have been pretty boring stuff.

Wow, I must not have been on NoQuarter when that urban myth got started...There are some seriously deluded PUMA's now on RedState.

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Check out this little gem:

And the RedStaters don't exactly know how to handle them, either.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Check out this little gem:

What's strange is it reminds me of nothing but the sort of complete self-referential insanity I used to see back at the height of the Monica wars on places like Pathfinder and Free Republic?

Rightwing nuts would insist the press was not reporting Clinton murders, Presidential rulings stating Bill was going to declare Martial law...

Stuff that was SO outrageous that no matter how much you maintained the media was "in the bag" for the left, you would have believed the BBC, or the right wing media, the WSJ, SOMEBODY would have picked it up?

Same thing, someone truely believes a Clinton campaign office was "firebombed" and the news story was suppressed?  What, like the Clinton campaign was complicit in this media suppression?

That is beyond deluded, that is demented!

So, how ironic, these crazy Puma's now have de-evolved into the same kind of "urban myth" true believers as those classic Clinton haters in the 90s.

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Check out this little gem:

And the RedStaters don't exactly know how to handle them, either.

I know, that's been my favorite part of this whole phenomenon.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Check out this little gem:

Wow.  It takes a special kind of nuts to be too nuts even for Republicans on the Internet.

by mistersite 2008-06-26 02:09PM | 0 recs
oops, sorry for the accidental tr

I was annoyed to see someone had tr-ed your comment and checked to see who it was, only to find out it was me.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-26 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Check out this little gem:

Yeah I saw that. Those claims by the delusional Hillary supporters are good for a laugh. If they want to resurrect MAD magazine, they gotta hire these people to write for them (though all the humor will be unintentional).

by Pravin 2008-06-26 10:08AM | 0 recs
The Chickens are coming home to rooste

Many black congressman have reported numerous death threats. Tavis Smiley mildly criticized Obama for not attending a conference on African Americans and he and his family have received many death threats. He had to leave a radio show he was on for years.

What do you expect? The Obama campaign said that Hillary dissed MLK. They said she did not cry for Katrina. They said that Bill Clinton said that Obama was just another black candidate. They attempted to bring up Clinton's negative among blacks as high as they could. That's reality. That's the truth. No on should be surprised that you would have all of these death threats and vandalism when you whip up hatred and resentment.

by mmorang 2008-06-26 10:48AM | 0 recs
What in the name

Of all that's holy and most of what isn't are you blathering about?

by Mumphrey 2008-06-26 01:19PM | 0 recs
I wondered about that
I guess that when you WANT to believe something badly enough, you can MAKE yourself believe it, however far-fetched it might be.
The thing about those people is that they're fundamentalists. We sometimes make the mistake of believing that fundamentalists are always religious, but it isn't so; people can be fundamentalists about anything. I've read some biographies of Stalin, and he, and the goons he surrounded himself with, were fundamentalists. In their world, things were true because they WANTED them to be true, they  NEEDED them to be true. So they WERE true, even if they weren't.
It's like that with some of the hard-core Clinton supporters, though obviously nowhere nearly as destructive. I don't know why they have sunk everything into Hillary Clinton being president, but they have, and it is easy to see it's the most important thing to these people now, even after it's all over. Maybe now they need to believe that they were right in their fundamentalist faith in her, and maybe that means "proving" that she didn't lose fairly, since anybody as obviously awesome and wonderful as she is could NEVER have just lost, she must have been cheated out of it somehow.
Anyway, that's how I see it. They need to believe the burned down offices and drive by shootings, because it means that they're still right: she's the best candidate, she was the rightful winner, and Obama is just a thuggish, criminal black guy from Chicago who stole the nomination from her.
If you ever read anything about the Soviet show trials of the 1930's, you'll be struck by how nutty the "crimes" they prosecuted were. We know now that Stalinism didn't work and couldn't work, but they were all so invested in making it work that when something went wrong, they'd come up with some utterly loony "sabotage" that somebody did, and they'd beat a "confession" out of the poor, hapless "saboteur", and, presto, they'd have a nice, neat explanation for why the nice new shiny factory got all run down in 3 months: it wasn't because nobody Stalin picked to run the place knew the first damned thing about running a factory, it was because some "capitalist spies" threw sand into the machines or something.
It's lie that here. Clinton didn't lose because she ran an execrable campaign; she lost because Obama's thugs burned down her campaign offices and shot out the office windows and beat up her volunteers. And the press, which was in Obama's pocket, never said a word about it.
It's really sad to see people reduced to this...
by Mumphrey 2008-06-26 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

And of course, 07rescue won't be banned here despite  (a.) being a McCain supporter, (b.) despising our party's nominee so much that he will vote republican, (c.) going to RedState to get some anti-Obama love, (d.) stating that he is literally talking people out of voting for Obama.

Hell, not only wouldn't he be banned, I suspect that if he posted a diary, the same group of 4 or 5 anti-Obama nuts here would get it on the wreck list.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-26 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Well, whatcha wanna do?  Have a website dedicated to getting Democrats elected actually do that?


by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

You're apology for commenting rashly. In my zeal to stifle all dissent for the greater glory of Dear Leader, I completely trampled on that most Democratic of principles, the right to free speech.

Remember, if we ever stop allowing dissenting comments, including those which attack us, our party and our nominee despite this being a purportedly pro-Democratic blog, then we are no different from republicans, the Taliban, Hitler and Mao.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-26 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Hah, exactly the point some of our errant colleagues would make.

Dissent is great.  I really appreciate it.  Stark raving lunacy, however, is something entirely different.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Have made.

by MS01 Indie 2008-06-26 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?


by notedgeways 2008-06-26 10:04AM | 0 recs
Hey, you forgot

Stalin, Pol Pot & Osama, whose name RHYMES WITH OBAMA!

by Mumphrey 2008-06-26 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

so you want to imitate LGF and redstate to accomplish what exactly? The lunacy here is that you think their methods are the right ones. you are not a progessive or a dem if you believe that.your way or the highway is a repuke meme. and the sad part is how many so-called dems act that very same way...

by zerosumgame 2008-06-26 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Redstate actually has a handful of liberal democrats who post there.  They actually seem to allow a smidge more dissent than we do here.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

now that is a very sad commentary on this blog. but then again it is mostly the abusive users who spam their poo after only reading the title of a diary, and who HR and TR anyone who simply disagrees with them and who allow and up-rate out-right personal attacks and smear jobs against other posters that really mess up places like this.

by zerosumgame 2008-06-26 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

No, I don't think you understand.  RedState comes down like the angry fist of justice on anybody they even think is trolling.  

They allow honest dissent from liberals.  They don't treat them very well, either, but they don't ban them for being liberals.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Right, the difference is that this site tolerates stuff like:


i.e., trolling.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

and posts like yours which contains a lie is up-rated. care to document that comment of yours? if it is hidden then it is not "tolerated" now is it?

by zerosumgame 2008-06-26 06:14PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

It's from rankles.

And let's be honest, hide-rating is just the users here shaking their fingers at someone, but the thread gets disrupted and people attack each other (see - you called me a liar for absolutely no reason other than you hadn't specifically seen the post I was referring to).

It just keeps happening.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-28 06:54AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

megan, you hide rated one of my comments, that was an opinion?  Hide rating something should be for what should be hidden. I'll let it go this time, but if you keep doing it I'll turn you in.  It's impossible to make everyone behave, but you might start with yourself.  

by anna shane 2008-06-28 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

so you are admitting that you and your cabal are less civil then the folks at redstate? do you even realize that you just "endorsed" that site?

by zerosumgame 2008-06-26 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?


This isn't a martydrom contest. We don't have to suffer the McCain infiltrators here just to "prove" how much Democrats love free speech and debate.

Are you actually suggesting that websites should not have moderators? That anything goes for fear of being labeled a freeper? If so, I sure hope you've never given anyone a 0, you free-speech hater!

This is a blog to elect Democrats. If someone can't comport themselves to that mission, they do not belong here. That's how it goes everywhere on the net. If you hate a sports team and show up on that team's blog merely to rant and rave against that team, you'll likely be banned. If you hate an actor and show up on that actor's fan site merely to rant and rave against that actor, you'll likely be banned. There's nothing magical about this site that forces us to tolerate jackholes trying to sow misery and discord.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-26 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Looks like 07 has something to share with RedState.

There are some really smarmy, condescending Obama blogs about how to recruit "Obamacans". It's perfectly repulsive how they coach people to "listen" to the ideas of others and then gently "confront" them with the "truth" until they capitulate their Republicanism. If you want to help yourself to some of that just go check out MyDD on any given day. There will be ample work for Republicans just to keep all the angry, disaffected members of your party from voting for Obama just to punish the Bush administration.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-26 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

But just remember...he's not a sell-out party-traitor piece of shit. He's doing it for the good of the party. He's doing it because he cares.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-26 10:09PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Thanks for that.  Not only was it ridiculously entertaining, it also makes me realize how much we have in common with all Clinton supporters, not just the good ones that have remained on mydd.  This is just an inside glimpse, a microcosm of the line of action McCain is currently pursuing.

They are fools if they vote for him.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-26 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

You could rec then, maybe?


by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

absolutely.  I was distracted mojo-ing comments. =)

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-26 08:58AM | 0 recs
Don't troll their house?

Screw that! This is trench warfare. We need to pound them into the dust by any means necessary. If they send one of ours to the hospital, we send one of theirs to the morgue.

by Phil In Denver 2008-06-26 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Don't troll their house?

RedState is of a much higher quality than FreeRepublic.  You wanna go hit the Freepers?  I don't care.  RedState ain't the same.  I've never seen them coordinate a hit on us and I will not countenance us doing that to them.

It's a big internet.  Let them have their space.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Don't troll their house?

True enough.  Behold:

ok, 07 you have repeated this several times:  by David Hinz


But I will guarantee you that Hillary Clinton never systematically had death threats made against her opponents supporters, their children, their elderly parents, burned down the opponent's campaign offices, or had drive by shootings through the windows, etc. I'm trying to convey that there is a whole new level of corruption that is possible, and it is there that all people of reasonably good, Democrat and Republican, will have to take a stand.

Send me your evidence by way of my contact form. Send whatever links you have, whatever evidence you have. Let me examine it and if it's real I will write it all up on our site.

Yep, that's on Redstate.  Depressing, isn't it.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:59AM | 0 recs
Applaud you for reading outside sources

the results of a MyDD poll showed half the people think opposing points of view are a waste of time. It was really scary.

by catfish2 2008-06-26 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Applaud you for reading outside sources

I think MyDD is probably the only site that you post on that I would get instantly banned.  Never seen you call for opposing points of view on: NoQuarter, Alegre's Corner, or anyplace else.  Don't expect you to either.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Applaud you for reading outside sources

that I would not get instantly banned, rather.

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Applaud you for reading outside sources

Alegre's corner pretends that every poll, person, or pundit that says anything positive about Obama is completely wicked, or phantasmagoric.  It's like their own carefully cultivated (yet I'm certain boring and ultimately unfulfilling) garden of eden.  

They've also been inundated with McCain trolls, whom they let frolic freely as long as they say effusive things about Hillary every other time they post.  But their real agenda is to distort McCain's record on women's issues to make him seem more palatable to Hil's castaways.

All in all the way they're being preyed upon is disturbing.  I'm obsessed with reading it.  I'm also impressed that they're able to find enough subject matter to feed their strange worldview (or weltanschauung, german words are great).

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-26 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Applaud you for reading outside sources

Yeah, on a diary YOU dreamed up, to push your agenda?

Come on, Catfish, your dog in this hunt is you want us to kiss your backside for being a contrarian, except you are only that when it comes to Obama?

In your other identities, you backed Hillary down the line, if anyone dared to state an opinion contrary, you were deadly in your vehemence towards the poster.


by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Applaud you for reading outside sources

Which is why he will never scold PUMA sites to "open up their discussion".

by MeganLocke 2008-06-26 10:00AM | 0 recs

Please put the quotes from redstate, etc. in blockquotes. It would make this diary easier to read and understand.

Thank you.

by kevin22262 2008-06-26 10:36AM | 0 recs
There is a reason Obama supporters boo HRC

and don't want her as VP. The Obama campaign trashed the Clinton's personally. He wasn't tough on her as far as issues, he personally attacked her and Bill's character. That's why so many "progressives" hate her.

If Obama picks Hillary as his VP many of his supporters will be upset and confused. How is it that Obama chose this devil woman? They can't distinguish between nonsensical campaign rhetoric and marketing gimicks from substantive critiques. If he doesn't pick her there will be permenant damage done to the party. Many will leave and not come back. Some will just sit out this election.

The percentage of people affected by blogs is extremely small. So, the pissed off Hillary supporters who go over to redstate and get more pissed will have virtually no affect on the presidential race.

I have seen many Obama supporters show nothing but contempt and hatred for Clinton. Many of them still HATE the idea of her being on the ticket.

It isn't just nutty Obama supporters on the blogs who showed no respect for the Clinton's, it's his elected supporters who have shown enormous disrespect to the Clinton's. Rep. Clyburg said he "heard" that the Clinton's would try to deliberately lose the election for Obama (he's completely full of it). Ted Kennedy said Hillary didn't have the necessary demeanor to even be VP. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. said that Hillary didn't cry for Katrina (so he tried to build up black resentment of Hillary right before SC. The resentment is deep and the solution needs to be substantive. He needs to select her as VP.

I don't care anything about the Republicans or redstate. They are obviously trying to capitalize on the race-bating and election manipulation that went on in this primary.

The number of people who will not vote for Obama has even surprised me.

by mmorang 2008-06-26 10:39AM | 0 recs
one other thing

Is posting a link to RS a good thing?

by kevin22262 2008-06-26 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: one other thing

Why not? it is better than having 6 redundant diaries on trivial issues here.

by Pravin 2008-06-27 02:35AM | 0 recs
Re: one other thing

Did I say it was not a good thing to write about? Hmmm... nope.

I said is it a good thing to LINK to RS

by kevin22262 2008-06-27 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

When I read what is being written at it resembles what is or has been written by some Obama democrats about the Clintons and their supporters.

In my opinion some Obama democrats and republicans are in lockstep.

The PUMA folks have had a year of dealing with the trashing of the Clintons by their own party they should be used to it by now.

by feelfree 2008-06-26 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Complete and utter BS, with nothing to back it up.

Epic fail, screaming in a concrete room, is the real reality of the PUMA crowd.

This has nothing to do with Obama, but your own narcissitic anger.

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 12:19PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

I'm sure it makes you happy to believe its all about someone else's angers. It appears to be your common theme.

If you put the archives of redstate and dkos blogs written about the Clintons side by side, they are very similar in vileness and contempt.

by feelfree 2008-06-26 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

If people think that any Democrat should "get used to" being trashed by another, that is really naive. The degree to which Clinton supporters are alienated will show very dramatically at Denver and in November.

All it takes is a few good organizers to keep up the drumbeat of attack, and it can influence the election. It's a huge mistake to dismiss the alienation and anger of a huge, active, long established contingent in the party, and the effects will be decisive.

I know that people like to believe their anonymous efforts on the internet are either anonymous, or that they will not be held responsible for them, but the responsibility ultimately does trickle down, in permanent schisms and in steadfast opposition.

There are many people willing to accept that our progressive agenda will need to be put on hold to some extent, in order to prevent the undermining of our party.

This odious charge of "racism" leveled at every person who opposes Obama is one of the fault lines between the two groups, and the more it is used as a blunt bludgeon against all Clinton supporters, the less any of us feel invested in maintaining any type of relationship, even a disharmonious one, with the other side. Soon we will regard that charge as a badge of honor, leveled at people who maintain principles in the face of outrageous assault. It is merely a sign that you have stood up for yourself with integrity, and have gotten smeared.

Remember that you can harm people irreparably, as you have with Paula Abeles, and it will make martyrs out of them, and that process dissociates our two opposing groups even further. The deceit and arrogance of your position on this is stunning. Don't think for a minute that Clinton supporters haven't noticed the real  assaults, and don't think we will accept them.

Even more threatening to you is the fact that countless Clinton supporters have discovered how much the Left lies, just outright lies in order to manipulate, and that really has moved a number of people toward the Republican camp. I believe the "middle" will be recreated once again, based on how many people now disbelieve both sides of the polarized media and electorate. Blind party loyalty is no more in many people's minds, so many dedicated Democrats no longer are. That is a crack, threatening to become a chasm.

The smear efforts against us are backfiring, and the few of us who still even bother to communicate with you, like myself, are letting you know about it. There are far more who won't bother ever communicating with you ever again. We are real people, not internet fantoms, and the hard work of tenacious people does pay off in the end. Trying to demonize us will backfire on you.

by 07rescue 2008-06-26 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

"The degree to which Clinton supporters are alienated will show very dramatically at Denver and in November."

First, those folks are NOT Clinton supporters, they are angry petulant narcissists engaged in a navel gazing McTantrum.

Yes, they will embarress themselves AND Senator Clinton in Denver, the few that will actually show up.

And, they will be a blip on the radar in Nov.

BTW, '07, How's in going convincing RedStaters How cool the Clintons are?  

Not a lot of luv for Bill and Hill in that pit of rightwing nuttery?

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

You're welcome to associate with Paula Abeles.  She posed as an old African American woman so she could somehow con the descendants of Jefferson and Sally Hemmings from attending a reunion.

I'll have nothing to do with such a person.

As for "This odious charge of "racism" leveled at every person who opposes Obama", well frankly you're being hyperbolic and whacked out on anger.  My best friend in the world was an ardent supporter of Senator Clinton.  It caused some angst between us, but I never, I repeat never thought, implied, or stated anything of the kind (racist) about him.  More generally, it just did not happen in the way you insist.

You wanna get mad and assume that the big, bad underdog candidate and his supporters did you wrong, well that's fine.  You want to associate with nutjobs (at the worst) and increasingly bewildered but opportunistic Republicans?  Fine.

You live in a fantasy world.  Your grievances are so unbelievably exaggerated as to caricature them.  Sexism was real, yes.  It was not, however, the cause of Obama's victory.

Next time support a candidate who doesn't say something as boneheaded as this:

"A much less compressed environment. So from my perspective, you get up every day and you get out there and you make your case and you reach as many people as possible. That's what I intend to do, so I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run. It'll be over by February 5th." 8Burns.shtml

I'm not attacking Senator Clinton here.  She screwed up.  That's part of life.  You wanna blame somebody for your pain, your sense of loss, your anger?  Blame your candidate for her foolish lack of planning.  Next time (and there will be a next time) she'll do better.

The internet is a very dangerous place for someone as credulous and excitable as you are.  Your intelligence and ability to write out your anger coherently does not diminish the absolute mockery of Senator Clinton's cause and candidacy you are.

Good luck to you.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I wrote they were used to it in that they could handle anything being thrown at them.

by feelfree 2008-06-26 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

Feel free.....

to go fuck yourself.

by Pravin 2008-06-27 02:36AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

All right, it's been a few seconds since I hit post. I apologize to the blog community for putting that comment. I was caught up in the 07rescue's reply here and then see this, and like a Tourette's victim  I hit post when I typed that for fun. It's too bad I can't delete my own comment.

by Pravin 2008-06-27 02:38AM | 0 recs
Re: How Did We Not See This Coming?

"If you put the archives of redstate and dkos blogs written about the Clintons side by side, they are very similar in vileness and contempt."

No, actually, I have a life, and what a few numbers of obcessive people say in a blog is simply that?

It's a small group of folks yelling at each other?

Like the PUMAs, the seem oversized, just because it's so shocking how irrational is their behavior?

But, knock yourself out, if it is neccesary to prove you victimhood?

Seems, Senator Clinton is getting over it, and moving on.

So sad you are still stuck in it.

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-26 12:52PM | 0 recs
Lost me

"In the world of national politics, the Clintons are about the most dishonest and unethical group ever to breech the National scene."

OK, this is where you lost me.  I have many, many issues with the Clintons, in particular President Clinton, but this statement, in my judgment, is simply ridiculous.  I think it indicates a profound lack of understanding of American political history.  

Just curious, where to do place LBJ, Tricky Dick, Reagan (Atwater and Nofziger) on this list with the Clintons as "about the most dishonest and unethical" on the national scene?  Any fair reading concludes that JFK partisans stole the election in 1960.

How about the campaigns against Al Smith?  Let's not bother going even further back in time.  And, in terms of unethical, we have Wallace and Thurmond who ran for President.  

That's all without even reaching David Duke.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-06-26 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Lost me

Um, those were not my words.  That's why I put those magical "quotation marks" around them, so I could tell the reader that those words belong to someone else.  In this case, the person quoted is from

I hope to god you didn't need me to explain that.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 01:26PM | 0 recs
My bad

The sentence began without a quotation (as part of a larger quoted passage) so I mistook it as diary commentary on a quick read.  As I said, at that point I stopped reading.  Dumb.

My apologies.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-06-26 01:34PM | 0 recs
Let me get this straight.

TalkLefters are going on RedState to complain about...  MISOGYNY???????????  Oh God.  Too, too beautiful.  Those peyote buttons I took in the '70s finally kicked in.

Rod Serling: Please step forward and tell us where we are.

by Dumbo 2008-06-26 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Let me get this straight.

It's pretty fucking amazing, actually.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-26 01:47PM | 0 recs
By the way...

Just to note...

Remember all those times bellicose Hillary supporters warned us that they were going to support McCain if Hillary lost?  Remember how some of us didn't give a shit?  Well, that wasn't true.  I was actually hoping for this.  I think this is just darling.  Better than a movie starring a talking pig, and I REALLY LOVE movies starring talking pigs.

by Dumbo 2008-06-26 01:49PM | 0 recs


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