I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Two important things you need to know about me. First, I am a militant Clintonista.  Second, I am a gay man.

I absolutely adore Hillary Clinton from the bottom of my heart.  I identify with her struggle to overcome gender stereotypes.  I admire they way she held up under the brutal fire of the VRWC in the 1990s.  I believe that she would make an absolutely amazing president.  Despite the numbers, I still haven't given up hope.  I'm "in it to win it" as long as Hillary is.

Recently, one of my fellow Clintonistas suggested that he would vote for John McSame should Obama be our nominee and suggested to me that there is little difference between the two with respect to gay issues.  He is a good friend and I understand how he feels but honestly, are you kidding me?  Vote for John McSame?

I have admired Hillary for a some time and I have been looking forward to her race for the presidency since 2004.  I was so excited the day that she announced her candidacy on the internet that I actually cried.  I went out and bought the t-shirts, donated money, and inundated friends and family with emails about why Hillary is the best candidate.  I also began fighting for Hillary on the internet and later joined the Writer's Strike from the big orange monster whose name we dare not speak.

But in the end, my loyalty does not end with Hillary Clinton.  I, like Hillary, am passionate about the Democratic Party and the progressive cause.  Both she and Bill have pledged to support Obama if he is the nominee.  For me, there is absolutely no doubt.  If Obama wins the nomination, I will absolutely vote for him.

If that weren't enough, some simple research on John McSame uncovers some very uncomfortable truths.  Although he voted against the federal anti-gay marriage amendment, he signed a petition for a referendum on an anti-gay marriage amendment to the Arizona state constitution.  McCain seems to believe that states should be allowed to make their own decisions on gay marriage.  So while he opposed the federal ban, he supported the state ban.

He discussed his personal views at the Hardball College Tour in Iowa in 2006:

"On the issue of gay marriage, I do believe, and I think it's a correct policy that the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, a marriage between man and woman, should have a unique status.  But I`m not for depriving any other group of Americans from having rights.  But I do believe that there is something that is unique between marriage between a man and a woman, and I believe it should be protected."

You can watch a video here of him explaining that while he doesn't have problem with gay marriage, in that he doesn't have a problem with the ceremony, the marriage should not confer any rights.

If that doesn't send a chill down your spines, maybe this will.  In the fall of 2007, a judge in Iowa struck down the state's ban on gay marriage.  Fox News wrote this about his response to that ruling:

Republican White House hopeful John McCain called the ruling "a loss for the traditional family."

"I have always supported the traditional definition of marriage as between one man and one woman," he said. "The ruling of the court only reinforces my belief that we must have a president who is committed to appointing strict constructionists to the bench."

Last week, somewhat under the radar as the media were busying declaring Hillary Clinton dead, John McSame repeated his pledge to nominate "strict constructionist judges."

What does that mean for the gay marriage fight? Before John Roberts and Samuel Alito were added to the Supreme Court, the three strict constructionist judges were Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and the late William Rehnquist.  In 2003, in the case of Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court struck down laws that banned consensual sex between adults of the same sex.  From CNN:

Religious conservatives quickly criticized the decision, and in a sharply worded dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia said the court "has taken sides in the culture war." Scalia -- joined by Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justice Clarence Thomas -- said the court "has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda."

"Let me be clear that I have nothing against homosexuals, or any other group, promoting their agenda though normal democratic means," Scalia wrote.

But with Thursday's decision, he wrote, the court was "departing from its role in assuring, as neutral observer, that the democratic rules of engagement are observed."

John McSame plans to appoint Supreme Court justices who think that it is constitutional to put people in jail for having sex because they think it's immoral.  Are you kidding me?  Vote for John McSame.

Uh, no.  I'd rather kiss a girl.

No offense intended, ladies.

Tags: Barack Obama, Gay Marriage, Hillary Clinton, John McSame, Supreme Court (all tags)



Great diary

McCain naming federal judges should send chills down all our spines.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-13 07:12PM | 0 recs
rec this up folks

by kindthoughts 2008-05-13 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary

One of the best diaries I've seen here in months.  

Can't wait for the Congressional diaries to start again, that's where my heart is.  SSP just isn't enough of a fix for me...

by fbihop 2008-05-13 11:59PM | 0 recs
A lot of folks here could learn

a lot from you!

For me, there is absolutely no doubt.  If Obama wins the nomination, I will absolutely vote for him.

Cheers to good thinking.

by Firewall 2008-05-13 07:15PM | 0 recs
Give us some time.

It's a long time to November.  There is still more than five months.  We'll come around.  We'll pull together and we'll do everything we can to make sure that the citizens of Arizona don't lose their senior senator.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:14PM | 0 recs
You won't have to drew

she's going to win.

by catfish1 2008-05-13 08:53PM | 0 recs
I am straight

but I would rather french kiss a guy (heck even Mark Penn) than vote for McCain, he is wrong for America.

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 07:15PM | 0 recs
Oh I recced your diary

and would mojo you if you made any comment in here (even one insulting my state). I have nothing against people who are fierce advocates for their candidate as long as they realize that John McCain=bad.

by Student Guy 2008-05-13 07:17PM | 0 recs
I finally posted a tip jar.

I'm blogging from China and MyDD sometime loads really slowly.


by psychodrew 2008-05-13 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: I finally posted a tip jar.

Thank God for people like you.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-14 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I am straight

I just mojo'd you because that was really funny.

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-13 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I am straight

I'd rather eat barbed wire than vote for McPain.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-14 04:58AM | 0 recs
The mental image!


But I concur with the sentiment...I would sooner go down on Bill O'Reilly than vote McCain (although obviously I'd prefer not to do either...)

by Elsinora 2008-05-14 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I believe that having that rabid anti-homosexual performer was a major gaff on Obama's part.  That said, he has made some significant overtures to the GLBT community and all of us who support them on their quest for equal rights.

Both candidates would be lightyears ahead of McSame in regards to safeguarding our civil rights.  Obama has pledged to end the "don't ask don't tell" policy and I am willing to wager that Clinton would do the same (this was a STOOPID policy considering the very large and very real population of homosexual men and women in the armed forces).

by Sychotic1 2008-05-13 07:16PM | 0 recs
Refused to be photographed with

Gavin Newsom. Would not be in the same room with the guy and didn't have the decency to call him to explain why. He's an ass, sorry. I'll hold my nose and not vote McCain. But this will take extra-strength nose plugs.

by catfish1 2008-05-13 08:55PM | 0 recs
Obama v Clinton

He mentions gay rights in his stump speech. Clinton only when speaking to gay audience$.

As for refusing to be photographed, did you hear the little sneer Clinton managed to put in her voice when she underlined that Obama's bitter speech took place in "San FranCISco", in the CNN 'values' pageant, or notice how her surrogates never mention that speech without mentioning that it took place in New Sodom?

Of course, you and I both know that his stance on gay rights, nor his alleged refusal to be photographed with Gavin Newsome, really has anything to do with your substance-laden criticism ("he's an ass"), but you'll have to find a new justification for it. Or you could just come right out and say "He's not Hillary!"

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-13 09:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama v Clinton

I know a lot of gay people who were deeply offended by that incident with the mayor of San Francisco.  I know a lot of people who are angry at Bill about DOMA and DADT.   We all have different reasons for the supporting the candidate we ultimately support.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 12:21AM | 0 recs
That was a mighty

substance-less comment.

Hillary's using San Francisco to mean wealthy latte-drinkers, not City o' Gays.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Obama refused the Newsom photo op because he was afraid Gavin might have a latte in his hand at an embarrassing moment.

by Montague 2008-05-14 02:09AM | 0 recs
Oh, okay

Hillary's using San Francisco to mean wealthy latte-drinkers, not City o' Gays.

Since you said it, it must be true.

(and even if it were, it's still cheap, dishonest demagoguery. But that's pretty much all she's had left for the last two months.)

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-14 03:50AM | 0 recs
He is gutless on Gay Rights, Hillary is forceful

Did you see her on the Ellen show? A gay couple cared for her dad and were with him when he passed. Later when one of the men was in the hospital, his partner could not even VISIT him because he was not considered family. She said "that just really struck me". She gets it.

by catfish1 2008-05-14 08:14AM | 0 recs
He is gutless on Gay Rights, Hillary is forcef

So.... he talks about gay rights in his stump speech, including when speaking to conservative black churches, and he's "gutless".

Clinton trots the issue out in front of audiences predisposed to be friendly and receptive, as your example demonstrates, and she's "forceful" and "gets it".

I am once again gobsmacked by the notion that Obama supporters are called cultists by Clintonites.

by BlueinColorado 2008-05-14 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Refused to be photographed with


by mikeinsf 2008-05-14 02:03AM | 0 recs
Here's a link to SF Chronicle

Obama snub still rankles Newsom.

Please stop lying for your candidate.

by catfish1 2008-05-14 08:17AM | 0 recs
Bevan Dufty even says it's true

and he voted for Obama. Three sources substantiate this: Willie Brown (who is undeclared), Gavin Newsom, and Bevan Dufty.

by catfish1 2008-05-14 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Bevan Dufty even says it's true

Oh... those paragons of truth.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-14 11:27AM | 0 recs
Believe your lying eyes then

Whatever makes you happy.

by catfish1 2008-05-14 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Believe your lying eyes then

I prefer to assess  a candidate's stand on practical things such as DODT and DOMA, rather than symbolic nonsense like Chelsea hitting the gay bars, and a rumor-laden column published... by chance, of course... on Super Tuesday.

Obama's stands on LGBT issues are as good, if not better, than Hillary's and Obama's done very well in the LGBT community (http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publis h/article_8340.php).  When he's president, all these snipes from Clinton partisans will dissolve before a series of provable facts:

Bill Clinton: enacted DOMA and DADT
Barack Obama: repealed them.

After that, we can all go to the Moby Dick in the Castro and knock back a few shots of Crown with Hillary and Chelsea.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-14 04:31PM | 0 recs
You have to admit that

we at least know where John McCain stands, whether we like him or not.

We also know where Donnie McClurkin, Mary Mary,  Hezekiah Walker and the rest of the performers on Obama's "Embrace the Change" gospel tour in South Carolina stand.  With John McCain.

by aggieric 2008-05-13 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: You have to admit that

Obama has been a good friend of the gay and lesbian community. He and his staff made a mistake on having those folks at an event. Is that what you are going to vote on?  Obama mentions gays and lesbians in lots of speeches. He doesn't keep the rhetorical closet closed.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-13 07:39PM | 0 recs
No, I'm going to vote on

several things, including each candidate's ability, or unwillingness there of, to admit a mistake.

And health care. Among other issues.

by aggieric 2008-05-13 07:49PM | 0 recs
There is no way

that McSame is better than Obama on health care.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way

You're making assumptions that I have to vote for either Obama or McCain.  There are plenty of options, from passing on the Presidential slot to writing in a candidate to voting for a third (or fourth) party candidate.

This is a democracy - I absolutely will not allow anyone to tell me that a refusal to vote for Obama equates to a vote for McCain.

by aggieric 2008-05-13 08:01PM | 0 recs
I'm not telling you that.

I did assume you were going to McCain, though.  My apologies.

I do hope you re-consider your decision, though.  I'm really worried about what a 3rd Bush term will do to this country.

But I do respect your right to make your personal decision.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: There is no way

If you have a preference for either candidate, and you live in a swing state, it makes sense to vote for the candidate you can tolerate more. To do otherwise is to say "I defer to the will of the rest of the voters".

In other words, even ff you don't vote for one of the party candidates, you still do have some responsibility for whatever the outcome is.

So, it becomes a question of what is more important to you - choosing the next president, or sending a very quiet protest message which will likely be ignored (see: Nader).

by jaiwithani 2008-05-13 09:26PM | 0 recs
It was during the McClurkin episode that I

dropped my support for Obama and took a good long look at Hillary. I fell in love with her, metaphorically speaking, and have been a very passionate supporter of her ever since. However, I am not blind. I do know that Obama regrets that little snafu and he has come a long way when it comes to LGBT issues. I would have no reservations whatsoever supporting him should Hillary not prevail. I forgive him for McClurkin...

by Rumarhazzit 2008-05-13 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: It was during the McClurkin episode that I

I've admired and appreciated your thoughts and comments, even when we were both over at dKos, and I still do, but we diverge on this issue.  I still have reservations about him, and ones which go far beyond this particular issue. This issue simply did and continues to seal the deal for me.  :-)

by aggieric 2008-05-13 08:04PM | 0 recs
And I absolutely understand that. It took

me a very long time and a lot of soul searching to get to where I am. It still pains me tremendously to think of Obama allowing those people to grace his stage. I know in my heart it was calculated, and I don't like it one bit. But I have never been one to carry a grudge and I just have to believe that he has moved to a better place. If he becomes the nominee, I will support him. For me, it is too important not to. But I do understand where you are coming from....

by Rumarhazzit 2008-05-13 08:17PM | 0 recs
He made a mistake.

But he also gave a speech at a black church basically chastised the African-American community for intolerance towards gays and lesbians.  There is no doubt in my mind that Obama is better on gay rights than Cranky McSame.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 07:50PM | 0 recs
You really think he and his staff

made a mistake?  I don't.  I think he and his staff consciously engaged in rather unsavory identity politics.

A lot of folks focus only on the presence of McClurkin, which is a mistake.  One homophobe on his gospel tour?  That might be a mistake.  A full slate of homophobes?  Hard to believe that no one in his savvy, hip campaign didn't know.  Very.Very.Hard.

by aggieric 2008-05-13 07:56PM | 0 recs
Yes, I do.

I hate spending all my time defending Obama when my heart is still with Hillary.

But I really do think it was a mistake.  Most of last year, Obama was having a big problem connecting with the African-American community.  I think that Jesse Jackson, Sr. went after him because he wasn't making public statements on Jena 6. People were saying he wasn't "black enough."  Many refused to support him until he won in Iowa.  If he made stupid mistakes, and McClurkin was a HUGE mistake, in his outreach, I won't hold it against him.

I don't expect my leaders to be perfect.  That's what I tell people when they point out Hillary's flaws.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: You really think he and his staff

What do you think of Piss Face McCain taking the endorsements of Hagee and Falwell??

by hootie4170 2008-05-13 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: You really think he and his staff

Absolutely, throwing gays under the bus was an attempt to win conservative AA votes.

He could afford to dump the strategy once his campaign successfully separated the Clintons from the AA community with their vicious --the Clintons are racist--smear campaign.

Dems have a habit of thinking the gays and the womens just have to vote for them no matter how shitty they treat us.  They're wrong.

by bellarose 2008-05-14 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: You really think he and his staff

I'm curious about the basis for your insinuation that "the womens" have been treated sh*tty by either Dem campaign.

by Sumo Vita 2008-05-14 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: He made a mistake.

This speech in my opinion was the single most important moment for gay rights in either campaign.  

Chelsea in a gay bar just pisses me off.  Obama having the guts to chastise a black church for the way evangelical black churches have treated gays was amazing.

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-13 11:52PM | 0 recs
I see your point.

Obama's speech was huge.  It was substantive.  Chelsea in a gay bar was more symbolism.  That said, I think it would have been cool to do pink colored vodka shot with Chelsea in a gay bar (of course that's assuming that she can hold her liquor like her mother).

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 12:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I see your point.

well said

by mikeinsf 2008-05-14 02:04AM | 0 recs
Re: I see your point.


by mattjfogarty 2008-05-14 10:58PM | 0 recs
No to McCain!!

And no to kissing girls.  ;)

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

A dude kissing a girl? yuck.

by rolnitzky 2008-05-13 07:42PM | 0 recs
Love the diary pschodrew. I'm a fan. Being

a gay Clintonista myself, there is absolutely no freakin' way I could ever in a million years vote for McSame. Even threatening to do so is taboo in my book. It is about the Supreme Court, on a whole range of issues. We fight in the ring until our nominee emerges and then go after McSame with all the passion and gusto of a determined, united party. I am definitely "in it to win it," and if Hillary can make her case and persuade enough delegates that she is the one to beat McSame, great, I will celebrate in the streets. If Obama comes out victorious, great, I will celebrate in the streets - maybe without the party hat  ;-]

I don't like it when I see and hear Democrats threatening or vowing to vote for McSame should their nominee not win. It is sour grapes, and there is too much at stake to not support one another when this primary contest is resolved.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-05-13 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Love the diary pschodrew. I'm a fan. Being

I really like the way you say this.  I don't like her as my comment in this dairy says, but it really is no contest between her and McFuckhead. I will be among her loudest advocates if she is on the ticket, as you said:

We fight in the ring until our nominee emerges and then go after McSame with all the passion and gusto of a determined, united party

That says it best.  Once we have a nominee I am moving on 100%, even if it ends up being Hillary.  Too much is at stake.

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-13 11:49PM | 0 recs
"Don't ask, Don't Tell"

McSame wants to continue the failed policy.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ 03/09/mccain-on-dont-ask-dont-tell/

Obama want to end it.

by Al Rodgers 2008-05-13 07:51PM | 0 recs
Wonderful diary! Very well said!

Those of us in the GBLT community would do well to remember that John McCain has no love for us, despite his "maverick" image. He's a hell of a lot more conservative than people want to believe.

I have to admit, I was incredibly offended when Obama recruited McClurkin, but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I can't even begin to understand what he was thinking when he made that decision, but it's possible that he was poorly advised. I don't think he would make that mistake again.

by sricki 2008-05-13 07:51PM | 0 recs
In fairness, that's not all Thomas said

Clarence Thomas basically said that the Texas law was a stupid law, he wouldn't have voted for it if he were in the Texas legislature, and enforcing such a law was a severe misappropriation of resources.  He just believed that this issue properly belongs to the states.

All in all, I agree with him.  Morals are a state issue.  Liberals still think that the federal government is a progressive force in morals arbitration.  I don't know how they could be so wedded to that idea after the last 20 years or so.      The federal government has been just as likely to use its powers to overcome state libertarianism during that period.  

by lombard 2008-05-13 07:52PM | 0 recs
'Morals are a state issue?" Well, I will

have to really think about that one. I would hate to travel across a state line and have my marriage no longer recognized, or get married in one state, move to another and not be able to get divorced. Or adopt children in one state, move to another and have them taken from me. Morals may be a state issue, but equal protection demands that we ensure the Supreme Court be on our side.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-05-13 08:04PM | 0 recs

The state of Texas banned sexual contact between members of the same sex, but not for opposite sex couples.  That's not equality!

Was Brown v Bd of Ed a moral issue?  Roe v Wade?  To me, those are constitutional issues.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:11PM | 0 recs
How about this?

Instead of being able to get an abortion in NY but not in Utah, you can't get an abortion anywhere in the US.

by lombard 2008-05-13 08:16PM | 0 recs
Which brings me back to my previous

point. We must ensure the the Supreme Court remains on our side. A Conservative Supreme Court would not treat abortion as a states rights issue, and in my opinion it shouldn't be. It should be a right for all women, in all states. The only way to ensure that is to make sure McSame is not our President. Civil rights are not a question of "morality," subject to 50 different interpretations. They are a matter of Constitutional principle.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-05-13 08:27PM | 0 recs
Wouldn't that require

a constitutional amendment?  Before Roe v Wade, different states had different laws.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:30PM | 0 recs
Yes, I think it would

by lombard 2008-05-13 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: In fairness, that's not all Thomas said
We either live in a free country that values equality, and individual rights or we don't.  I thought one of the main reasons for a constitution was to protect minority rights.
And morals are closely related to religion, and as far as I am concerned morality laws, are against freedom of religion.
by Tumult 2008-05-13 10:20PM | 0 recs
Well, I Am A Girl

And I kiss you (on the cheek, in a brotherly/sisterly way).

This is a good diary.

OK, go ahead and say 'yuk' and wipe it off after I leave.

by toyomama 2008-05-13 08:11PM | 0 recs
I won't wipe it off!

I just won't tell my boyfriend!

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't wipe it off!

Me too ;>)

by toyomama 2008-05-13 08:14PM | 0 recs
You're better than I psychodrew

I am having a really hard time with this. I know McCain is wrong on the war and clueless about the economy and women's reproductive rights. But I'm having a really hard time with this.

by catfish1 2008-05-13 08:57PM | 0 recs
It's a front.

I'm absolutely devastated.  My head is saying one thing and my heart is saying another.  I'm going with my head right now.

There have been a lot A LOT of tears over the last week.  And it still doesn't seem real.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 09:08PM | 0 recs
Do something about it call

or write a letter to the editor please. Oregonian, Eugene Register-Guard.

by catfish1 2008-05-14 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: You're better than I psychodrew

Same here Cat.  

by Tolstoy 2008-05-14 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

There are so many ways in which a McCain Presidency could adversely affect this country.  

Not being gay, this wouldn't directly affect me, but that's not what it's about.  It would affect YOU, and millions of other gay Americans, and that just pisses me right off.  

So, to all Democrats here and everywhere, if you're tempted to vote McCain, please remember that, even if his Presidency doesn't harm you personally, it will harm others, and since this party is about making America the best it can be for EVERYONE, we can't let McCain win.

Or, more succinctly:

Let's kick McCain's ass!

by freedom78 2008-05-13 09:18PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Reading your comments made me realize something.  If we are united in the fall, we are going to destroy the GOP.  Absolutely annihilate them.  Shock and awe, if you will.

I'm really sad right now, because I see where the primary campaign is going.  But I'm starting to get excited about the fall.  This could be a big year for us if we get our act together.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 12:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

No doubt about that!

by freedom78 2008-05-14 06:07AM | 0 recs
Thank You.

Thank you for voting for the Democrat in the General Election.

Thank you for admitting that it is not just Obama that has over the top supporters.  We are going to need  a 12 step program to wean the supporters, of whoever loses the nomination, off their candidate.

by Tumult 2008-05-13 10:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You.

It's going to take time.  As I mentioned to another commenter, I'm speaking with my head rather than my heart right now.  My head sees the math and reads the mixed signals the campaign is sending.  My heart tells me it's still going to happen.

After such a long campaign and putting my hopes and dreams in Hillary, it's hard for me to accept.  But my head is telling me this is the right thing to do.

We will just need to time.  After the primaries are over, we will just need time.

by psychodrew 2008-05-13 10:21PM | 0 recs
Militant Gay Clintonista here

Also will not vote for McCain.

by BPK80 2008-05-13 10:40PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I am:

A gay man
An unwavering Obama supporter
I intensely dislike both HRC, and her campaign
I like Bill Clinton even less
And I know Obama will be better for GLBT issues

Despite all excuses to the contrary (and I have heard them all since the day it happened which I remember well), I believe Bill Clinton sold gays out as badly as anyone in  history ever has without even so much as an easily overridden token veto to DOMA. He also sucked on DADT.

I am so glad HRC won't be the nominee and hope she won't be VP.

Having said all that, I have said since day one that I will stop all criticism, give her donations, lobby for her and vote for her if she is the nominee. Anything else is insane.

No matter how much I dislike HRC, she is a world apart from McCain.

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-13 11:41PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Rec'd. Fab diary, from one gay militant Clintonista to another.

McCain nominating judges to the Supreme Court gives me shivers as a gay man, and while I have some issues with some of the stuff that Obama has done in regards to gays, it can't hold a candle to what would happen in a McCain adminstration.

by zcflint05 2008-05-14 12:06AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I read your diary last week when you came out (pun intended) for Obama.  I know that must have been a difficult for decision.  I hope you haven't taken any heat for that.

I'm really anxious for this to end so we can start bashing the Republicans full time.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 12:14AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

zcflint and psychodrew

You two rock.  While I know we strongly disagree on candidates, it is because of damn smart folks like you that I don't write off MyDD completely.

I have seen several things each of you have said that, to be honest, are some of the first and best things I have seen from any HRC supporters. You have put everything in perspective for me as an Obama supporter.  After thinking hard about what you two have said, I can at least understand the opposing view much better.

I really, really look forward to working with folks like you, supporters of either candidate, but people smart enough to keep their eyes on the real goal, in the future. Thanks for your thoughtful work here.

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-14 11:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Well, I have kissed guys AND girls, and it's fun in both situations.

And nothing could induce me to vote for McCain.

by Montague 2008-05-14 02:14AM | 0 recs
It is time to Kiss a Hillary

if Hillary is not a nominee, I will vote for McCain. sorry. And yes, Hillary is my girl

by engels 2008-05-14 03:09AM | 0 recs
Re: It is time to Kiss a Hillary

Sign up for redstate now!

by Veteran75 2008-05-14 04:06AM | 0 recs
So Hillary is your girl, you just don't respect


When she is campaigning against McCain and his suporters, you want her to be talking about you?

You keep stating that you disagree with everything Sen. Clinton stands for, but that you support her.

They have medication for that, these days...


by chrisblask 2008-05-14 05:36AM | 0 recs
Re: It is time to Kiss a Hillary

I'm going to vote 3rd party or leave the top of the tix blank.  

I just can't vote for McCain.

by bellarose 2008-05-14 05:44AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Nice diary.

If HRC is not the nominee I'm not voting for Obama or McCain.

My husband is another story all together.  If Hillary isn't the nominee he wants to donate to McCain's campaign.

by bellarose 2008-05-14 05:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

It's a nice diary, and yet you choose to completely ignore it's premise altogether?

If you care at all about progressive democratic values, abstaining from the GE (or worse) voting for McCain is a vote AGAINST your beliefs.

If you don't care about such things, then it's time to face reality:  you're Republicans.

by fogiv 2008-05-14 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I appreciate the tone and sentiment of the diary.  

I haven't reached the same conclusion about November.  

That's all.

by bellarose 2008-05-14 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Hoping you come around in time.  There's much at stake.

by fogiv 2008-05-14 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Nice diary; great research.  Good to see common sense prevail.  Abstaining from the GE, or voting for McCain, would be a major mistake no matter how you slice it.

by fogiv 2008-05-14 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I think it may be too early for a diary likec this. First let's see if Obama actually takes strong steps to unify the party, because without real unity we are going to get McSame, or McShame, or McCain, or what ever you would like to call him.

by pollbuster 2008-05-14 09:15AM | 0 recs
What would you like to see him do?

This is a serious question that most Obama supporters are really struggling to find an answer to. What is it that Hillary Clinton supporters need to feel that our side is trying to unify the party? What "real steps" do you want?

by Zoey 2008-05-14 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: What would you like to see him do?

I want to see real steps towards unification. and I would think that I speak for most of the Clinton supporters when I say that. Without unity, we can't win. With unity we will not only win the White House, but we will dramatically expand our majorities in the house and senate.

by pollbuster 2008-05-14 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: What would you like to see him do?

Yes, what I'm asking is... what are those "real" steps? A lot of Obama supporters feel that our side is already working for unity, and we don't understand what steps the Clinton supporters want us to take.

by Zoey 2008-05-14 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: What would you like to see him do?

Ok, then since, as you put it, a lot of Obama supporters think they are already working for unity, give me some examples of this work.

You ask me what i would consider real steps towards unity, ok let me see if I could make it clear. It would start with a speech by Obama outlining the steps he is taking to bring a divided party together. It would call for an end to partisan attacks on Hillary Clinton by him or his supporters. It would define a meaningful role for the former opposition in his campaign. And it would mean moving closer together on some of the key issues like national health, and stimulating the economy. Mostly it would mean a real commitment to us becoming one party again.

by pollbuster 2008-05-14 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: What would you like to see him do?

Hillary needs a graceful exit and we need time to heal.   Negative attacks on us or on Hillary just make the problem worse.  Those are the two biggest things.

I actually agree with Howard Dean that Hillary will be important in this.  She has said that she will do everything she can to support him.  As long as she gets on stage and holds his hand and says, "I endorse Obama," then everything will be okay.  I think most Clintonistas will come around.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I wrote this diary in response to what somebody told me.  I was actually encouraged to vote for McCain and my response was that I'd rather kiss a girl.

I have seen a major shift in the Clinton campaign since IN & NC.  In the emails, the tone of the surrogates.  They don't sound defeated, but they do sound conciliatory.  That's what I'm trying to be right now.  I'm not conceding defeat, but I think that after months and months of going after each other on the net, we need to start looking at what we have in common.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!
Great thoughtful diary.  Thanks psychodrew.
It's unfortunate after all you have pointed out, that there are some HRC supporters who would prefer to ignore the casualties that would result from a McCain presidency.  
Is it spite, or are some of HRC's supporters more conservative than progressive, Reagan Democrats?  Hard to tell.
by haystax calhoun 2008-05-14 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Just give us time.  As I've been telling many people recently, my heart and my head are in conflict right now.  This diary was written by my head.  My heart is thinks it is still going to happen.  The Clintonistas just need time and space.  Don't worry.  Hillary is going to get on stage with Barack and hold up his arm and endorse him.  Just wait.  It will be okay.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here--but Obama and MCCain are about the same on gay rights. In fact, Obama has paid more homophobic lip service than McCain has. Obama is not the answer on gay rights. And if you think he will lead fight to repeal don't ask, don't tell, well, he won't. Not unless Colin Powell changes his mind. If Obama is the nominee, democrats will be in trouble on gay rights.

by linfar 2008-05-14 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

Name me one speech where McCain has spoken out in support of gays.

Go on.

by terra 2008-05-14 11:23AM | 0 recs
I respectfully disagree

Obama wants to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell:

Obama went on, "I will work to eradicate the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and enact the Matthew Shepard hate crime law and a fully inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Obama on the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA):

Added Obama, "I support the complete repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act and the complete equalization of rights and benefits for same-sex couples at the federal level."

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

That is patently untrue, and you have literally nothing to back this up with.  This is pure insulting nonsense.

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-14 11:01PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I live in Arizona, and John McCain is certainly no friend of the LGBT community.

As an Obama supporter, I also wanted to say that I also think that Hillary Clinton has had to overcome many gender stereotypes. It really gripes me that so many people choose to pick on things that would never even be noticed if she were a man.

by Zoey 2008-05-14 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

The fact that it ISN'T a given for some people that McCain is worse on social issues than Obama just blows my mind. It is willfull ignorance, same as people who believe the earth is 6000 years old or that evolution is "just a theory."

What about Obama's speech to the Ebeneezer Church? What about the fact he has included references to gay people in his speeches CONSTANTLY? If you want an example, he even mentioned them in his announcement of his candidacy.

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/02/10/re marks_of_senator_barack_obam_11.php

And when all else fails, when Katrina happens, or the death toll in Iraq mounts, we've been told that our crises are somebody else's fault. We're distracted from our real failures, and told to blame the other party, or gay people, or immigrants.

by terra 2008-05-14 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I'd rather stick my tongue down your throat than vote for McCain. No offense intended. Just in almost full agreement.

by johnny sexton 2008-05-14 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd Rather Kiss a Girl!

I wish I could rec this diary twice.

by Koan 2008-05-14 01:00PM | 0 recs
Good diary

I'm a straight white guy Obama supporter, but I'm an HRC member and I think the treatment of GLBT folk is the most absurd discrimination of the times. (Yes, other forms of discrimination are equally bad, but at least when people start arguing we should discriminate against black people, they're smacked down by everyone with a conscience.)

I hope however the nomination process ends, we can defeat McCain - not just defeat him, but CRUSH him, and crush the Republicans in congress, and roll out national gay anti-discrimination laws and legalize gay marriage nationally. Of all the idiotic planks of the Republican party platform, this is one of the most indefensible.

by mattw 2008-05-14 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary

One thing that is helping me right now is know that we have the potential to absolutely annihilate that Republicans this fall.  I have some hard, VERY HARD, feelings about this primary campaign, but I am even angrier about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the nasty campaigns ran against Max Cleland (GA) and Jean Carnahan (Missouri) in 2002.  I am bitter about being told that criticizing the war meant I was not patriotic.  I am PISSED about a president who said we should respect gays and lesbians, but they shouldn't be allowed to marry or serve in the military and we don't need to be protected from employment or housing discrimination.  I am pissed about how they used ME as a wedge issue in 2004.  I am pissed.  I am angry.  And I want to annihilate them!

If we can channel all of this energy from ALL OF US in the right direction, we are going to win big in November.  That is really helping me deal with this right now.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 03:23PM | 0 recs
Don't take this the wrong way but...

...as a gay man, how can you support Senator Clinton, when it's largely through her and her husband's efforts that the DoMA (perhaps one of the biggest setbacks to gay rights in the last twenty years) was passed?  Remember, if you give Hillary credit for the good things from Bill's years, you have to give her blame for the bad things.  So why does the vocal portion of GLBT community support her so militantly?  Is it just because she's a woman?

I am also a gay man, but I support Barack Obama.  One of these reasons is because I know that a President Obama will not turn around that sell me and my other GLBT friends out in order to gain points with the conservative/independent voters.  I can't say the same for Senator Clinton.

Anyway, I don't mean to take attention away from the main subject of your diary, so let me comment on that as well.  I understand what it's like to have your candidate lose.  I was a huge Dean supporter, so be glad that Senator Clinton (at least so far) is finishing her campaign on some high notes (i.e. wins in WV and KY) rather than the sudden melt-down caused by the "scream."  I'm glad that you've also realized that a McCain presidency would be four more years of GLBT setbacks and attacks and I congratulate you on being able to put aside your personal dislike of Obama.  It's the right thing to do, and I know it can't be easy after getting so emotionally involved in one of his rivals campaigns.  

by brathor 2008-05-14 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't take this the wrong way but...

I don't blame President Clinton for DOMA or DADT.  The reason that we ended up with DADT was that he was trying to get full equality.  He spoke up for for equality at a time when nobody cared about gay rights.  

As for DOMA, it passed with veto-proof majorities (84-15-1 in the Senate and 342-67 in the House).  Had he vetoed it, it would have been overriden and it might have given Bob Dole a boost in the election that year.  Then we would have ended up with a President Dole and a GOP Congress.  I think the fact that he signed the bill on an airplane heading to Europe in the middle of the night showed that he was embarassed that he was signing it.

I support Senator Clinton because I identify with her (read:  because she's a woman) and because I admire her.  I feel like I know her.  I have confidence in her abilities.  I feel that she is tested and ready to lead and that she could inspire women around the country and the world for greatness.

It doesn't look like it's going to happen, so when  it's time, I jump on the Hopemobile and vote for Obama.

by psychodrew 2008-05-14 10:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't take this the wrong way but...

So it's okay that President Clinton didn't fight for gay rights because it might have made it harder to win reelection?  See, my problem is that I want someone out there who is going to be willing to put his or her ass on the line to do the right thing and to fight for me, my partner, and my friends.  I don't believe I can trust Senator Clinton to do that.  

by brathor 2008-05-14 11:17PM | 0 recs
I respectfully disagree

It was a losing battle.  He would have lost.  No matter what.  If he had vetoed the bill, we would still have the law and we might have had President Dole.  His signing the bill didn't change anything.  If anything, it helped avoid an election that where gay rights would be used as a wedge issue.

by psychodrew 2008-05-15 03:09AM | 0 recs


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