So now the Democratic party are just a bunch of activists who deserve to be cut out because they don't represent the real Dem Party? I guess you must be referring to me. If that is true, I don't like being insulted.
MN has both a Caucus and a Primary. If the people think the party gets it wrong they can overturn the Party decision in a primary. This has happened frequently. Ironically, the primaries that overturned the caucus vote were usually disastrous candidates recently. Primaries don't make people more electable. Primaries don't apply to the presidential race.
Get your facts straight. Almost all of the big machines in the US are built under a primary system. The reason that works is because it is much easier to control and manage the process and to kick down potential candidates. Internal reform is made all that much more difficult because you don't have a way to get rid of bad party officials.
Caucuses keep the party firmly in control of the people. For lower level races like State House that is essential. You don't have to rely on big money to get elected, you can work your butt off and get your message out, you don't need huge checks. It gets better politicians out of the process. Paul Wellstone came from a Caucus process for example. He never would have had a chance in a primary system.
"The hatred of Clinton runs deep among the Obama supporters"
Hillary Clinton has been extremely irritating to me. When Paul Begala goes on CNN and calls me an egghead (which I am not) its offensive. I do not drive a Volvo either, I drink my coffee black with no sugar or cream, I do not drink lattes, my bowling score is higher than McCain, Clinton and Obama combined. My version of gun control is squeeze the trigger, don't jerk it. I am a white male and I work for a living (who doesn't?). So kiss my ass Hillary and stop pissing all over me. I was ok with Hillary, not highly opposed to her, but not any more, she has really gone out of her way to make me mad at her. Since South Carolina she has been doing stuff I don't like, and it has been getting worse and worse.
As for Hillary being the VP, the problem isn't Hillary, the problem is Bill. Bill will NEVER step off the stage if Hillary is the VP. He will be a loose cannon and will disagree with administration policy all the time and would potentially undercut an Obama administration. I think Obama/Hillary would be ok in the interest of unity (not great, would rather see Edwards, Webb or someone like that) but Bill Clinton really screws that up. At this point, the only way there could be a Hillary VP is if Bill agreed to shut the hell up for 8 years. Fat chance of that happening, and even if he did agree he can't control himself, so there is no point in even going there.
I was agnostic until South Carolina. I was always somewhere between Edwards and Obama, but have not been that strong either way until recently, where I feel like this needs to be stopped. This has to be ended. I feel like I am approaching a point where it is "us or them". Here is what will happen in my state if we cross that threshold, just so you start to get a little idea of the area we are heading into, what a civil war might look like in a political party.
All Hillary Superdelegates go on a list of people to get thrown out of the Party process. The primary target will be DNC members since you can't get rid of electeds quickly. All it takes is 50+1% to push through a malfeasance charge, and in my state. Also, since there are enough Obama people to push through rules changes at the State convention, they can amend the rules to allow people to drop Hillary, and then put the screws to the delegates, especially local elected officials who need support and money. They will switch or face brutal reprisals which will cost some of them their seats. The total loss to Hillary will be somewhere in the realm of 10 delegates at a minimum if my math is right. After that, they will go after the groups that supported her and make sure they get cut out of the process as well, they will not be left unharmed. A vote for Hillary will be political suicide. Her entire base will be crushed. This process will continue until new State Party people get elected. They will all be Obama people. The Hillary people will get whipsawed out of office. Will some people go over to the Republicans? Yes. Will this create divisions for a generation? Probably. But that is what will happen.
I don't think anyone likes my scenario, but that is what will happen. If you believe for one second that it will not be anything but a bloody mess putting the fix in for Hillary, you can forget it. What is going on is not minor, this is not merely a difference of opinion, this has the potential to rip the entire party to shreds, this is explosive, and this is becoming a much bigger and more important issue than Hillary. Hillary has a lot of power and connections, but she has also lost this contest, and with that loss, the power has shifted to Obama. She has lost. The sooner she realizes that, the better. She is no longer a viable option for the party.
I don't want a war in my party and I don't expect one. This scenario will not happen because everyone with a vested interest in the Party will soon realize the stakes for them personally. This is not a game. They have a week to make up their minds if they want a war or not, and then the bodies start to drop, a few at first, but then it will start to get bad. This must be resolved before the Rules meeting, Obama needs to be recognized, or all hell is going to break loose.
I was undecided, being somewhat pro Edwards, until South Carolina. Then came the Sista Soulja II incident with Bill Clinton opening his mouth, basically saying that people voting for Obama were basically treating him like an affirmative action candidate, that he hadn't "earned" those votes of his own merits, and Hillary signed off on that, that was her message. It was a calculating attempt to split off the white vote, an act that would have divided the Democratic Party. It worked at dividing the party, but failed to deliver South Carolina to Hillary.
After seeing that I remembered some of the bad side of the Clintons. I remembered Terrible Terry and how he drove the DNC and the entire party into the ground with triangulation, and division. I remembered how much I disliked the current team around her, who are corporate to the core, a team of high power ruthless operatives. They are cold blooded. Then came Geraldine Ferraro. Then I remembered what I was fighting for and against for the past 5 years. Now I see this. I feel like I need to speak out.
My entire adult life I have never had a moment when I felt there was a national goal I could sign on to. Obama. He is not perfect, but he is a viable option. I can see him as both a mortal human being, and also a great president. He can win, and his winning would change America. This is something I can sign on to. Hillary could win too, but the way I see it, her winning wouldn't really change anything in the way I want America to change. It would be another wasted decade in my mind. Many people disagree with me, but thats how I feel.
But we are reaching a new point in this campaign, I feel like my integrity as an Obama supporter is being questioned by the actions of the Hillary Campaign, and this site. I am offended by that and get really pissed off when you try to tell me what I should believe. I have weighed the options, I have looked at the issues, and I have made a judgement for Obama. Now I hear myself being called deluded and naive, and I hear justifications for overturning the work I have done in a way that in my mind is wrong and completely unfair.
If this gets challenged, it will end up on the floor of the convention. From there it will be majority rules. And if anyone has a majority, its a moot point anyway because they already have the endorsement in their pocket. If Obama has a majority, they won't be seated unless he has the nomination in hand. If Hillary has a majority, she will bring them in at the start to increase her majority.
Anyway, the real pre-convention battle will be fought out in the rules committee. Credentials committee people just enforce the rules.