I Want The Dream Ticket!!

I admit I hang out on the PUMA blogs and am a die-hard Hillary Supporter.


Unlike many PUMA's I will support an Obama/Clinton ticket.


First of all, it is unrealistic for Hillary supporters to believe that Hillary can (and should) overthrow the presumptive nominee.

Can you imagine if that happened? (and it won't), but IF it happened and IF Hillary actually accepted (and she won't), then the other half of the party would be sooooo upset, so irate, so utterly pissed off - they not only would NOT vote for Hillary, they would take her down in the Senate and any future she wanted to have in politics.

THAT is not realistic and THAT is not going to happen.

But Hillary Clinton (and her supporters) DESERVE the 2nd spot on the ticket. She has EARNED it.

What runner-up in recent history came this close? And what runner up that did come this close did NOT get the VP spot?

Hillary Clinton is the Best Person For the Job.

She can step into the #1 spot on Day One if needed.

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, she does bring foreign affairs experience - maybe not the number of years that Biden brings - BUT - she does bring much more.....

She also helps with the Economy. There is no question that when you mention the name Clinton, the country thinks "Economy" and Hillary has always polled #1 against other candidate on matters of the Economy.

According to a recent Pew Poll (last week), Obama is losing ground with the BASE of the party. While McCain enjoys 88% of Republican support, Obama enjoys only 72%-78% and that is considered low (compared to Kerry and Gore).

Hillary brings the Base of the Party and VOTES. Biden cannot bring VOTES - he is a nice older white male from Delaware that has been in the Senate for a lifetime - hardly "change". He got about 3-5% of primary voters, hardly exciting. He will not bring Obama VOTES.

Bayh and Kaine MAY bring A State. MAY is the key word - no guarantee at all.

Sebelis has been mentioned, but will - most likely - not deliver Kansas and will not bring more Female voters in spite of what the MSM say. Hillary supporters will look at her with distaste not because she is a bad candidate but because she is not Hillary. She could even lose some Hillary voters.

Any other person that Obama chooses will have Hillary supporters asking "Why not Hillary?"

Hillary can deliver OH, PA (for sure), possibly AR, NV, NM - most all Swing States.

Hillary is the BEST debator there is hands down. No matter who McCain choses, Hillary will be an attack dog - a fighter and will not let up.

Oh Yeah - and "CHANGE" the BIG word that Matters.

Can someone PLEASE tell me how the FIRST WOMAN VICE PRESIDENT (if they win) would NOT BE CHANGE and I mean BIG change?

If Obama choses anyone OTHER than Hillary Clinton, then - for me - it proves 2 things:

1.) He does NOT want to win (because only Hillary Clinton can bring 3 - 5 million guaranteed votes with her).


2.) He was never serious about being a "uniter" or bringing about Party Unity.

If Obama does not chose Hillary as his VP, then I cannot chose Obama for President.

Tags: Barack Obama, Dream Ticket, Hillary Clinton, Vice President, VP (all tags)



Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

I want A dream ticket. I just happen to believe there are many.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

One person's dream is another person night terror.

by ElitistJohn 2008-08-19 05:42AM | 0 recs

If Obama chooses someone else, do you plan to abstain or will you vote Republican?

If you plan to vote McCain, how did you come to the conclusion that he would be better for the interests of the country and/or you, your friends, men, women, etc?

I would actually like to discuss this because I don't understand the rationale and no PUMA has answered me.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:01PM | 0 recs
One more thing

I plan to vote and volunteer for Obama/VP no matter who he chooses.  Clinton would be an excellent pick, but I think Biden, Clark, Schweitzer, Brown would be as good.  Kaine is acceptable.  I will still volunteer for Obama/Bayh but won't change my yard sign from Obama '08 to the new one.

Just thought you should know where I am coming from.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: One more thing

How about Sebelius?

by Dale Johnson 007 2008-08-18 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: One more thing

I am originally from Ohio and my Republican family (yeah I know) has nice things to say about her dad.  That is a major plus.

I think she would be an excellent VP but a lousy VP candidate.  This is 100% attributed to the sexism I have seen by PUMAs, i.e.  women who aren't Hillary must clearly be unqualified.  I think picking her would reinflame the split in the party.

That being said, if she is picked I will be excited for the opportunity to put the Obama/Sebelius sign in my yard and fight like hell to bridge the unity gap.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I will vote McCain.

This will have nothing to do with Issues, although, as it turns out, McCain is not AS BAD as Bush (for example) on the issues (thank God)).

I am in the 50th district in CA and will support Nick Leibham (and any other democrats on the ticket), but I won't support Obama and this will come down to issues of Character and Qualifications.

I do not agree with HOW Obama was "chosen" to be the nominee. He is less qualified and has less experience than Hillary and I find it discriminating that the DNC leadership chose the lesser qualified, younger male over the older, more qualified Female.

Next, I was appalled, disgusted, with how the TX caucuses (which I witnessed) went down. There were so many illegalities that took place and I could not get an audience with anyone to pay attention.
Although, now reading Dr. Long's report on the caucus fraud at least has brought this to light:


Then there is the decision about MI/FL, then there is how Hillary was treated by the MSM and YES the obama campaign - calls for her to drop out since Iowa and calling her a racist.

Am I a sore loser - YES.

But I own my vote and can do with it what I want and it will be a PROTEST VOTE this time IF Hillary is not on the ticket....

by nikkid 2008-08-18 07:19PM | 0 recs
McCain troll

You've already endorsed McCain. Why don't you go crawl back to Little Green Footballs.

by turtlescrubber 2008-08-18 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain troll

I WILL endorse (happily) OBAMA/CLINTON IF that is the ticket....

by nikkid 2008-08-18 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain troll

I asked her a question.  She should be allowed to answer.

Being nice to her costs us nothing.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain troll

Except for the opportunity to gig a Republican troll, and that's worth more than gold.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-18 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain troll

Except nikkid is not a repug troll.  She is a Clinton die-hard, and you don't win that crowd over with smarmy insults, but rational engagement.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: rational engagement?

You'll forgive me for coming to the conclusion that nikkid is beyond persuasion by any means. Her description of how she sees the candidate and harbors resentments about the Primary process leaves scant room for any kind of reconciliation. I get the distinct feeling that her goal is retribution and punishment on an epic scale.

Under those circumstances, I think it reasonable to either ignore the tantrums or respond in kind. Neither approach will make it better, of course, but neither will they make it worse.

I don't think anybody here is obligated to be a suicide counselor or a hostage negotiator. But that's just my take on it.

by QTG 2008-08-19 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain troll

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/8/18/7 3256/2868/34#34

Could you please explain why you gave me a troll rating while I broke no MyDD rule what so ever?

This seems like ratings abuse and that's why I request you remove your rating from my comment.

by Ernst 2008-08-18 11:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Thanks for the answer.

I disagree with almost everything you wrote but I don't think we need to rehash the old arguments.  Neither of us will change our minds so it would be unproductive.  It is nice, however, to understand where your head is at.

If it boils down to a protest vote, ok.

Since you were nice enough to answer question one, here is a second.

Why would Clinton being VP allow you to forget that Obama has character issues, no experience, was illegally chosen, and is a race-baiter?  It seems to me that if you actually think these things, you should never in a million years vote for Obama.  Your possible vote for Obama really doesn't make any sense in that context, with or without Hillary.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

You are welcome. Yes, you are right we cannot change each other's minds, I understand that and I don't intend to even try (of course).

I will HAPPILY accept Barack Obama as President if Hillary Cinton is Vice President BECAUSE much of what I am protesting against will be washed away..

You see IF Obama choses Hillary Clinton, then it proves to ME that he IS serious about unity and that  he does really want to Win. That his entire candidacy (and the DNC leadership) was NOT about taking out the Clintons (which is what it has seemed like throughout the primary).

Do I think he is still less experienced and unqualified - YES - BUT I will accept THAT because he will have chosen a VP that will HELP him succeed and for that I would be Happy.


Hillary will have one foot in the door to the whitehouse and she will still make history, not the kind I was hoping for, but still History.

The caucus fraud, the racist comments, the fact that he doesn't have enough experience - it's there - but it's gone - in a flash, because by chosing Hillary - he is PROVING that he is a "Uniter" (at least to me) and I will SUPPORT him for THAT....

In fact, I'll CAMPAIGN for both of them....

by nikkid 2008-08-18 07:35PM | 0 recs
MOJO for great questions

"Why would Clinton being VP allow you to forget that Obama has character issues, no experience, was illegally chosen, and is a race-baiter?  It seems to me that if you actually think these things, you should never in a million years vote for Obama.  Your possible vote for Obama really doesn't make any sense in that context, with or without Hillary"

thats like saying "Hitler was a genocidal tyrant but if Hillary was his running mate he has my vote"

Hitler/Clinton 08

by wellinformed 2008-08-19 05:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Question

This is why people under 18 should have the vote. We don't require people over 18 to prove their maturity in order to get it.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Ah, yes, Dr. Long, author of such books as "Fabulous Fractions" and "Dazzling Division."  It's funny that there's very little math (first grade-level or otherwise) on her website, which consists almost entirely of innuendo.  But hey, because she's a doctor (of psychology, with a master's in math), she must be an expert on electoral fraud.

by rfahey22 2008-08-18 07:38PM | 0 recs

Nice to see that in our celebrity-driven world the career setback of one multimillionaire politician is more important than trivia like
the make-up of the Supreme court,
the lives of soldiers,
the choice of women,
the rights of gays,
addiction to oil,
health care,

Yes, your vote is yours.  What a sad waste.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-19 12:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I am a member of PUMA who will not vote for Obama unless he picks Hillary.  Even though it would not be better for the country if McCain were to win, I can not in my heart support someone as arrogant as Obama would be for refusing to concede the point that he needed her to win--which is what this is all about- "change" has very little to do with it-like Biden, Nunn, and Bayh represent "change"? Hillary was gracious to Obama and would have done the right thing and picked him w/o this charade now going on. Obama knew whom he wanted 2 months ago I have no doubt he has already made a decision and it won't be Hillary.  He hates her for standing in his way and besting him in most of those debates and so does Axelrod. He hates her because he's a nominee who received fewer votes than his opponent. And he hates her because her status as a female undercut his "historic" status as a black man.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I would like to be nice but I have to be honest and let you know that your response makes no sense.  You have no idea about how Obama feels about Hillary.  Your ideas that he hates her are simply your ideas.

Protest voting is fine.  Since you admit that McCain will be worse for the country, how did you come to the conclusion that your dislike of Obama is more important than the country?

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Thanks for being so gracious.  My response makes no sense uh?  One would have to be a complete fool (or one not paying much attention to what's going on) NOT to realize what anyone over the age of ten can plainly see-namely that Obama and Clinton hate each other and Bill's face practically seethes when the subject of Obama comes up. Hatred is always a two way street.  Then of course anecdotally there are the Obama fans in the media like Chris Matthews who has steam coming from his ears whenever Hillary's name comes up-to say nothing of Cafferty, Olberman, David "the Clintons are pimping out their daughter" Shuster. Then there's Obama's cochair Mr Jackson Jr. who reminded us in the heat of battle that Hillary can cry for herself but not for "Katrina victims." Okay?

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Fine.  For the sake of the argument, let us assume that Obama and the Clinton's hate each others guts (with a fiery passion).  With that assumption out of the way,

Since you admit that McCain will be worse for the country, how did you come to the conclusion that your dislike of Obama is more important than the country?

It is an honest question.

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

"It is an honest question"

but what do Pumas know about honesty ?

I mean they listen to Larry Sinclair  for crying out loud !!!!

they won't answer your questions they just want to name call and whine  

by wellinformed 2008-08-19 05:53AM | 0 recs
"Hatred is always a two-way street"?

Um, what?  I've met many people who like me but whom I despise, or vice versa.  I gather that most people have had similar experiences.  So what is this nonsense parading as proof?

by Elsinora 2008-08-18 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

You're projecting.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Well Cincinatus, we Pumasistas must make a decision.  To wit: do we go with our political opinions on the issues we agree with and vote for Obama, or do we refuse to vote for Obama because we not only have contempt for him but for the way Hillary was portrayed by the Obama loving media. Obama is clearly at fault here re the PUMAS. He could have done right by her (and it's about HER, not US), and simply put an end to this infighting, ah but I suspect he's too stubborn and arrogant for that.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

No, it's about YOU. SHE has chosen to endorse and support Obama. YOU, on the other hand, have created this fictional Obama in your head that has little if anything to do with the actual man, at whose feet you can lay the blame for every slight, perceived or real, that was dealt your candidate during the primary. This isn't a candidate thing for me, either. I have equal contempt for the Hillary haters and people like you, anyone who has decided to make this personal. If you actually look at what Obama has SAID and what he has DONE rather than what you believe he THINKS and FEELS, it's very hard to come away with the same impression of him that you seem to have. You should try it sometime.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

No it's NOT about ME at all-it's about millions of people being disrespected in this process.  And about Obama-"Annie Oakley" and "You're likeable enough Hillary" says it all.  Anyway I personnally was beginning to change my mind about Obama until I saw the exhibition at that political RALLY in Mr. Obama's former church of 18 years when the good Father Pfleger (not Father Flanagan) entertained that crowd (who just YEAH, He NAILED HER) with the most disgusting images of this campaign.  And Obama belonged to a church which invites a nutsack like that as a guest speaker and then when the nutsack is mocking Hillary and crying his crocodile tears of utter contempt the mob is reacting like they just won the lottery.  And I'm supposed to believe in party "unity" for the sake of the country?  Where would a good chunk of the Obama voters be if the show were on the other foot and he had won the popular vote and the Supers went for him?  Would they be lining up behind someone THEY hated for the good of the country?

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I'd say most Obama supporters (like most Clinton supporters) don't HATE the opposing candidate. Because to love one candidate and hate another who is so close in terms of policy, ideas, and beliefs is slightly LUDICROUS. And once again, you show that you're projecting, not actually addressing the reality. It's possible to see the "likeable enough" and the "Annie Oakley" as spiteful and offensive and it's possible not to. You're choosing to find everything he says as purposely hateful as possible because it fits your narrative of the bad man who beat your candidate. It's how a lot of people deal with defeat, "My guy was better so he must have cheated," but that doesn't change the fact that it's childish.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Oh, and you're the arbiter of what's childish and what's not?  And I'm not "projecting" anything. I have two good ears and two good eyes and a functioning brain-and I know what I've seen and heard throughout this campaign.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Well, apparently what you've decided you've seen is different from what a lot of us have decided we've seen. And you seem very opposed to the consideration that you might be wrong. I'm open to the possibility that you are right, that Obama hates Hillary and that there was a vast conspiracy with the DNC to unseat her as the frontrunner. I find that possibility massively unlikely, but I entertain it. You, on the other hand, have decided that Obama is a bad person based on a combination of whatever evidence you think you have seen and your own emotions, and you WILL NOT accept any other possibility. And that, my friend, is fanaticism.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Well you're not my friend number one, and if I were an Obama supporter I would not bandy about the word "fanaticism". his supporters think this guy walked across the Atlantic on his way home from his recent trip. There was no vast conspiracy just an accumulation of many years of Clinton hating by the forces who were behind the Carters and the Kennedys (all of whom are pathological in their jealousy of Bill Clinton's successful TWO terms). It's striking to me to see the sheer number of people associated with the Carters and Kennedys working for Obama or singing his praises on TV.   Why, oh because Jimmy was ajoke and lost 45 states and Teddy never got to fulfill his destiny. Then you have the uberjealous Botox Queen Pelosi who can't stand the fact that another Democratic woman would be MORE powerful than she is. Then there's the Obama loving media which have always had it in for the Clintons--Joan Walsh of Salon, "The press hates the Clintons". Now you can call it want you want, I like the word vengeance instead. It's got such a nice ring to it.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I'm sad that you don't consider me your friend. I consider you my friend. And if you're willing to put vengeance above the future of the country and the world that we hand to the next generation, maybe you belong in the Republican party. The Democratic party is not the party of selfishness.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Well have no fear-you won't have to deal with me much longer.  After Obama commits the ultimate insult, I will be making a few final comments then never even COMING to this website again. Why should I waste my time-this popsicle stand is not for us..

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I hope you chill out after the election and lead a long and happy life.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

A noble effort, C, but their anit no reasonin' with it.

by fogiv 2008-08-18 10:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I had to try. Ignorance reigns when those who choose reason stay silent.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I hear you.  I've gone 'round the bend with handsomegent already.  I'm calling it:

Time of Reason's death, 11:53 PM (pacific).

by fogiv 2008-08-18 10:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I'll prepare a lovely eulogy.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 10:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

...and not a moment too soon.  With your last string of comments, you've proven that you've shuffled loose the sanity coil.

What insult must be uttered to expedite your planned departure from "this website"?  Please inform me, and I'll happily provide it.

by fogiv 2008-08-18 10:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Also, for the guy who's supposedly on the hateful and mean side, you don't see me going around calling people nutsacks.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Okay, I understand that you are very angry.

I still don't understand how you make the jump from Obama dislike to McCain vote.  You have already said that McCain will be worse for the country.

How did you come to your decision to vote against the country's best interest?  

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Again it's not so hard to understand.  It's very difficult to vote for someone you dislike even though you may agree with that person on the majority of the issues. I have been voting Democrat for 36 years and I have liked every Democrat I've supported.  Many times my favorite has not won the nomination: Udall, Paul Simon, Kennedy, Hart, and Dean last time but I always rallied around the nominee.  But not this time-not when a person clearly stands out as a running mate and is dissed by the likes of Nancy Pelosi for no apparent reason except to avenge a slight or a grudge. No way-we'll just have to wait 2 years or so for the next campaign to start.  Now, as a five-year-old, I'm way past my bedtime, so see ya tommorow.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

So wait, it's Nancy Pelosi's fault? I'm having trouble keeping up with your ever-shifting rationalization. But you know something... I'm starting to realize that you're those voters I've read about, the ones who vote for the candidate they'd have a beer with rather than the one who'd actually make a good president. There are plenty of excellent running mates, and you don't see their supporters basing their vote on whether or not they are chosen. I know you think the only reason anyone could POSSIBLY not choose Hillary is out of sexist hatred, but I personally think he could maybe not be choosing her because he doesn't want to see ads in which his vice president talks about how he isn't qualified to be commander in chief. I don't know if that's the reason, but it seems the most likely. Then again, I don't have a window into Obama's BRAIN like you apparently do.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Bullshit.  There is not a single thing that Obama could do right by you guys, except lose.  You projected yourself onto one individual, he beat her, and for that he will never be forgiven, and everything else could go to Hell.

Stop pretending that you are open-minded.  This is about your infatuation with a single politician.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-19 12:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Are you four? Good grief another person me me me me it all about me. Screw the country. What a complete ass.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

No, I'm five-I'm sitting on a stool to reach the keyboard.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Well at least you're honest about your intellectual age.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

What?  I'm brilliant for my age.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I've known many more mature four-year-olds.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Good, then you should be carrying on a discussion with them.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

5 and already delusional, sad.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

Ah yes, we're all delusional, mentally unstable psychos-gee you're got us nailed dead to rights.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

It's sad to see people actually believe their own hype. This "puma" phenonemenon has been exposed for what it is: several dozen disgruntled attention-seekers aided by republicans and conspiracy theorists; a group of bitter partisans and probably more than a few political neophytes who, because they can troll a site like this, think they're making a big noise, but in real life can't fill an airport hotel in a DC suburb two weeks before a party convention.

The history books may indeed make a passing reference to you, but only to note the extent to which a political campaign really can become a cult of personality after it fails, while also showing how easy it is to manipulate the supporters of defeated primary participants through the internet.

You pumas are clowns. Nothing more. Keep shaking your caps and bells, and enjoy what little attention you may receive, but don't imagine that anyone takes you seriously.

by BobzCat 2008-08-18 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I just answered you.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I just answered you.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

I answered your question but unfortunately for free speech reasons, my post got deleted.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:34PM | 0 recs
Nikkid already endorsed McCain

Check his/her blog.

by turtlescrubber 2008-08-18 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Nikkid already endorsed McCain

Yeah on the front page in large letters it says:


by venician 2008-08-18 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

Then take your ball (= one vote) and stay home. If your commitment to slowing down the plutocratic constructionists is so easily thwarted, your world view is better confined to your own four walls.

by laboratty 2008-08-18 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

First the following is not a slam on Hillary. I think I have been pretty good about not doing that even during the primary wars.

OK now as to our post

The only times in history when 2nd place became VP was when  article 2 was still enforce. Article 2 meant the VP was the person who came in second in the GE.

Coming in second in the primary entitles you to nothing. Does it make you someone worthy of consideration, yes, entitles no.

If your voting for Obama purely hinges on Hillary on  the ticket, the it's all about you, not Hillary, not the country and certainly not unity. It sure as hell isn't what Hillary would want you to do.

Now if Hillary ends up as the VP great! However it will be because Obama thought she would be the best person for the job. If not he felt she could better serve in the Senate or she decided sometime ago she didn't want second fiddle.

In closing I am sure as hell not betting against Hillary being the VP choice. Unlike all the other sooth sayers around here ... I haven't a clue who the VP pick is going to be :)

by jsfox 2008-08-18 07:28PM | 0 recs


by Dale Johnson 007 2008-08-18 07:33PM | 0 recs

mojoed for sanity.  While it may not be the  dream ticket, it would be a damn good ticket. And it surely isn't TR worthy, from CG no less (maybe her finger slipped).

by CAchemist 2008-08-18 07:57PM | 0 recs
by canadian gal 2008-08-18 08:55PM | 0 recs

Is that really necessary? The guy wrote a diary you disagree with, that doesn't have anything to do with his vice presidential preference.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:01PM | 0 recs
im feeling particularly petty...

tonight.  but i liked your hitler/soze ticket.  

(oh - and i call out all trolls when i see them - not just the ones i agree with.)

by canadian gal 2008-08-18 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: im feeling particularly petty...

Yeah, I'm pretty new here and still figuring out how to deal with trolls. Only reason I mention it is that I've always admired your ability to keep a cool head and be rational around here and it seemed beneath you.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:12PM | 0 recs

I think it's fascinating that Canadian Gal would troll-rate a simple two word comment: "Obama-Sebelius".  

Both Democrats, both mainstream, has a small chance of happening.  Care to explain, CG?

by mikeinsf 2008-08-19 12:57AM | 0 recs
I Want the Nightmare Ticket!!!

Hitler/Soze '08!

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 07:53PM | 0 recs

in either order.

by JJE 2008-08-18 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Kang/Kodos

Kodos is stronger on humans' rights.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Kang/Kodos

ZOD/Luthor 08

Zod kicks off campaign in Philly

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) -- General Zod launched his 2008 Presidential bid on July 4, greeted by a crowd of over 25,000.
      "I am General Zod!" he bellowed, surveying the masses. "Listen to me, people of the Earth! Today I bring a new order to your planet! Your lands, your homes, your possessions, your very lives -- all of this and more you will gladly give to me! In return, I promise you lower taxes and cheap gas prices!"
      The promise was met by wild cheers and a fanfare of balloons and confetti.
      He continued: "It is as useless for you to deny me your vote as it is for me to annihilate you. You will only bring death and destruction upon yourselves, while I lose the potential products of your labor. In return for your vote, you will have my generous protection! In other words - you will be allowed to live.
      "Hear me now! There is now one law, one order, one ruler who alone will determine your collective destiny! Kneel before me! From this day forward - there is only Zod!"
      The reception among the crowd was enthusiastic. Said Doris Eddins, 53, of Trenton, "That's my President right there. I hear he's gonna put a lien on my house, but he's promising tax refunds. You hear that? The President's gonna send me a check!"
      Zod is expected to make stops in Cincinnati and Indianapolis tomorrow

by wellinformed 2008-08-19 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Kang/Kodos

Vote for change, kneel before Zod!

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-19 09:34AM | 0 recs
I am curious.

You don't think there is anything in Hillary's or the Clintons' closet that could bring down the ticket?  She hasn't been campaigned against, and she starts with alot of people disliking her.Both Hillary and Bill have had message problems this primary season, are we sure we want that? Hillary as VP takes things like Iraq war and NAFTA off the table.  People that keep the dream alive about her being the VP seem not to consider all the downsides to her on the ticket.

Sebelius who is the only one mentioned that I would feel good on the ticket.  Has the advantage of being a D.C. outsider, with Ohio ties, a fairly anonymous husband, is a Catholic, with victories over the insurance and dirty energy industries in a Red State.  And she does not appear to have the negatives Hillary Clinton has, while having direct personal executive experience (something even Hillary cannot claim).  She can also talk from first hand experience on how National Guard call ups for Iraq are undermining the ability to deal with disasters and emergencies here in the U.S.   Aside from her last name and the loyal following Hillary has she does not stack up well against Sebelius in an apples to apples comparison.

by Tumult 2008-08-18 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

 Rec'd and mojo'd. Because I must be Veeping consistent.

by QTG 2008-08-18 08:20PM | 0 recs
I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

If Hillary had never stood up at a podium and told the US that McCain would be a better president/CINC than Obama. As nasty as the primary fight got, I don't think Obama ever hinted that if he were not the nominee, that people should vote for or trust McCain over Clinton. If Hillary isn't chosen, and from the reporting it seems like she won't, I would be willing to bet money that whatever animosity that may exist between the two can be traced back to those comments. It really floored me when I heard it the first time - even more so when it was repeated.

by highgrade 2008-08-18 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

This is what I've been saying. She unfortunately made herself a far weaker candidate with that one statement.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Uh, she never said that McCain would be a "better president" than Obama.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

She said he was qualified and Obama was not. That hurts a lot more if she's on the ticket.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

He isn't qualified. He's the least qualified person for such a major position that I've seen in my lifetime.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

I reject the premise, there are no set qualifications for the presidency, nor has the success of presidents in the past directly correlated with experience.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Then I suppose your Uncle Joe could be president.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

If I had an Uncle Joe, and if I believed he was the best man for the job, you bet your ass I'd support him. I believe we're supposed to be able to elect anyone as long as they convince us they're the right people for the job. I don't really support the creation of a political ruling class.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Your uncle George got to be president, and his resumé reads like the biography of the World's Greatest Loser.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-19 03:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

It's good that you weren't alive when Lincoln was running.

by rfahey22 2008-08-18 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Lincoln was unqualified and his arrogance was frankly astounding. WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:42PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

First of all Lincoln's presidency was a disaster in a lot of ways. He botched any serious negociations with the South, his own Secreatry of Satte proposed that HE take over the running of the country, it took him 4 years to win a war where he outnumbered the enemy by two to one, his wife sold his state of the union address to a newspaperman to pay off her debts (more like shoplifting), his own party couldn't stand him and a Republican senator from PA went to the White House in 1864 and begged him to not run again so they could run Grant instead, plus despite his reputatuion to the contrary it's little known that he asked the congress for money to buy land in Nicaragua so freed blacks could settle there and get out of the US where they would never be happy. It's a myth that Lincoln was beloved. It was the shock of his assassination and the biggest funeral in history (plus Hollywood later on) which started this Godlike image of Lincoln.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Wow. You, my friend, have lost it.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Really now, what's untrue about what I said?

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Not so much untrue as just imbued with your usual penchant for exaggeration, distortion, and taking things completely out of context.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 09:50PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Really what was exaggerated and distorted?  I teach a course in which I discuss the Lincoln presidency at length.  Did you know his Secretary of the Treasury (Chase) had a son in law who was a Republican senator at the time who flat out committed treason by blockade running for the South-and Lincoln covered it up because it would kill him politically?

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

I honestly don't believe you teach anything anymore. Cite your sources and we'll talk.

Oh, and by the way, if you look at only the bad parts of any presidency it's going to look bad. You're clearly doing the same with Obama's life, and you've done a fine job of demonizing him. The question is, what's the point?

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Most of the things you cite are completely irrelevant.  It's well known that there was squabbling in Lincoln's cabinet, but so what?  Likewise his relative popularity with the Republican Party, as well as Mary Todd Lincoln's activities during that period.  While it's true that the Civil War took longer than most expected, that is hardly Lincoln's fault.  He repeatedly implored McClellan to launch  an offensive into Virginia to capture Richmond, but McClellan was completely outsmarted by Lee.  Only through a process of trial and error was Lincoln able to settle upon Grant as leader of the Union forces.  

by rfahey22 2008-08-18 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

They went through a lot of horrible generals. Mcdowell, Burnside, Hooker. Even Meade, who was in charge during Gettysburg, was unremarkable. The Civil War was certainly not won or lost by Abraham Lincoln alone. It was an incredibly complex conflict. I agree with rfahey, handsomegent is vastly oversimplifying our history.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 10:16PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Yeah, I didn't want to recite the whole list.  That's what happens when much of West Point's finest  take up arms against the federal government - there are fewer capable commanders.

by rfahey22 2008-08-18 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Well aforum such as this when you are typing calls for a bit of "oversimplification", does it not?  Anyway the point was that Lincoln was referenced as someone w/o a lot of experience (just like Saint Barack) and the implication was that experience makes no difference. Perhaps if Lincoln had experience as a leader things would have gone much smoother.  And Lincoln ws SO political he didn't fire McClellan because he thought it would hurt the Repubs chances in the 1862 midterms.  Anyway when people say that McCain graduated almost at the bottom of his class (and use that as a disqualification) I suppose someone could bring up the point that Winston Churchill was considered a dullard in school. I also find it odd that when you are implying for any job the first thing the potential employer asks for are your credentials , your resume.  Isn't is amazing that when Obama is applying for the most difficult job in history-we're not allowed to bring up his woeful lack of credentials.  And I still challenge anyone to name another Democratic nominee of the last 100 years with fewer credentials.

by handsomegent 2008-08-19 04:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

"And I still challenge anyone to name another Democratic nominee of the last 100 years with fewer credentials."

Easy: Hillary Clinton -- never even held elected office till her US Senator stint.

Atleast Obama was an Illinois Senator as well.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-08-19 05:33AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

My suspicion is you are teaching straight out of Thomas Dilorenzo's book.

If so, understand that the man is a revisionist and a fraud. Unless you prefer your history presented entirely from the wealthy Southern plantation owner's perspective, you'd do well to take anything he has written on the subject of Lincoln and wipe your ass with it.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-20 09:13PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

That is quite a narrative you constructed.  It's unfortunate that history disagrees with you.

by rfahey22 2008-08-18 10:01PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Still waiting for the South to rise again?

by username 2008-08-18 11:18PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Not really since I live in the northeast and am a big Red Sox fan.

by handsomegent 2008-08-19 04:35AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Wow.  You are really going there.  This one's a keeper.  You know you have zero credibility now, right?

Crazy PUMA

by mikeinsf 2008-08-19 01:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

So you, by implication, are saying that George W. Bush was a more qualified candidate than Obama.

  • A man who turned every business he touched to crap
  • A governor who "ran" the state of Texas by showing up twice a year before the "lege" and signing death warrants by the case.
  • A man who has spent the past seven-plus years dismantling the American middle class...


- A man with a Harvard Law degree who gave up wealth to help empower Chicago's underclass through a massive voter registration drive

  • A four-term Illinois state senator who worked across party lines to enact ethics reform laws and improve access to health care
  • A junior U.S. Senator who in his first term has introduced legislation on major ethics reform, election transparency, reducing the risk of nuclear terrorism, etc., etc., etc.
I'm not buying it.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-18 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

George W. Bush didn't do the most important thing though.

He didn't hurt handsomegent's feelings.

by Cincinnatus 2008-08-18 10:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon


by fogiv 2008-08-18 10:47PM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

George Bush was at least a state executive and I think he went to Harvard and Yale, didn't he? Anyway Obama was a nobody state senator (there must be 3000 state senators in this country) and served in the US Senate for 25 months before announcing in an astounding moment of pomposity his candidacy on Abe's birthday in Springfield.

by handsomegent 2008-08-19 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

As opposed to Hillary Clinton who was a nobody at all before she served in the US Senate.

But ooh, it's the Clinton name that matters again I guess. And thusly we promote dynastic rule under the poor excuse of "experience".

Of course Louis XVI should rule, he had dozens of years living in the house of Louis XV I guess.

by Aris Katsaris2 2008-08-19 05:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

Clinton wa a nobody before her historic senate run?  Really, wasn't she first lady of her state for 12 years and first lady of this country for 8 years?  That's hardly a nobody.  Ans wasn't she a far more prominent attorney than Obama and wasn't she voted one of the top 100 attorneys in the country by her peers. And didn't she serve for FOUR more years in the US Senate than Obama, after she won reelection by 2 million votes.

by handsomegent 2008-08-19 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: I would be on the Clinton bandwagon

What, precisely, is the First Lady's Constitutional function? Feel free to choose the State of Arkansas,the United States or both. We are all a-twitter waiting for your response.

Laura Bush has been First Lady for 7 1/2 years...I wouldn't vote for her if she ran for county treasurer.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-19 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

I'm just thankful this parlor game will expire in a few short days.

by alamedadem 2008-08-18 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

Oh please, please let it all end ;) I have been Veep'd to death.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 08:58PM | 0 recs
I want the Dream Ticket, too

But if he chose Hagel I'd still vote for Obama. Not that it wouldn't be an utterly bone-headed thing to do (it would) but because Obama is NOT a Republican.

Anybody who would vote for McCain out of dislike for Obama or some perceived slight to Hillary is a Republican enabler which is the same as being a Republican in my estimation. Any woman who would vote for McCain has no self-respect because she is voting for a misogynist who has no qualms about destroying her rights.

If we get four more years of war, two more anti-democratic anti-woman Supreme Court pricks, and the final destruction of the American middle class YOU will be to blame. You and only you, for with Hillary supporters' votes this race would be over. YOU are the reason it's as close as it is, and YOU will be the reason this country goes down the toilet if Obama fails.

by Spiffarino 2008-08-18 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

Are you holding your breath? Has your face turned blue? Good. Now just wait a little while longer.

by BobzCat 2008-08-18 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

But Hillary Clinton (and her supporters) DESERVE the 2nd spot on the ticket. She has EARNED it.

but I guess the real issue is whether or not Hillary wants to be VP.

and whether her and Obama work well together.

by alyssa chaos 2008-08-18 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

Stop.  You sound sensible!

by mikeinsf 2008-08-19 01:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting

There are people who 'hurt themselves' with razors to temporarily placate their inner demons. It's demented behavior. There are people who starve themselves to death who share an understanding of the rationale with others similarly afflicted - the rest of us are chagrined outsiders. At the zoo you can see chimps who masturbate incessantly, or poop into their hand and toss the turds toward the visitors out of frustration.

Life is full of examples of such odd and bizarre behavior.

by QTG 2008-08-19 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

MOJO for comparing pumas to  "cutters" and  jacking off chimps and throwing shit towards normal people

if that does not describe Puma I don't know what does

by wellinformed 2008-08-19 06:33AM | 0 recs
It is ridiculous to accuse

Obama of not wanting party unity when Bill Clinton can't even bring himself to say that Obama is qualified to be president.  Also we have another example of Bill today praising McCain's Green Stance.

you want blame for party disharmony, look to the Clintons and some of their supports .  By their actions they may it appear that they would rather have the Demo nominee lose if she is not on the ticket.  And if he does we will not forget this come next election cycle

by xenontab 2008-08-19 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: I Want The Dream Ticket!!

Back in May, Dr. Tantillo ('the marketing doctor'), who has  (a blog on branding) did a post arguing against the idea of an Obama-Clinton ticket--positing that from a branding perspective, it makes no sense, and actually wouldn't be a good move for Clinton's brand, either.

"Because of the length of this primary fight, brand identity and loyalty to brand have become central. What this means is that a kind of brand mutual exclusivity has set in."

Not sure if I agree or if this idea still holds at this point, but it is a compelling argument - (and one that I at least think goes a long way toward explaining Obama's hesitation to choose Clinton as his running mate--even if it would go a long way toward building party unity and seemingly clench the general election for Obama.)

Link to the full post

by elo 2008-08-20 06:07AM | 0 recs


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