that's the really frustrating part- she is NOT an airhead. Yet she conducts herself like a total ditzy blonde. One morning, Andrea Mitchell was on with the whole morning crew, and the contrast between Mitchell and Mika was so stark it was unbelievable. It was like high school- Andrea was the smart girl stuck hanging out with a bunch of frat boys. Mika was behaving like one of the cheerleaders, giggling and flirting and batting her eyes at the frat boys. Andrea would say something intelligent, and Mika would say whatever the boys wanted to hear. Pathetic.
I actually kind of like morning Joe, and like the differences of opinion, but it pisses me off when Mika plays the ditzy ding dong instead of being the intelligent woman she is.
Philoguy, this is an excellent, convincing response. Quite simply, putting it in these terms takes it out of the realm of the personal and into the practical.
The biggest problem with some is that they don't just want your vote, they want you to hero-worship the man the same way they do. Sorry, I just don't. Then again, I didn't hero-worship HRC either, just respected her tremendously.
He's good on some issues, so-so on others, and I disagree with him on some things (Coal? Are you kidding me?). Will I vote for him? More than likely, unless there are some other unpleasant surprises down the road, along the lines of FISA. Do I think Democrats are the far superior choice? Yes. That doesn't mean I think they should get a free pass. Does being a good democrat mean giving blind loyalty?
"So now I'm here at MyDD, and thankfully, this place has a big tent, and all voices can be heard- not just those who are singing in the Obama choir. I'm willing to praise him when he deserves it, but I'll be damned if I will let him have a free ride just because he's a democrat! That mindset is scary, and it also is why Bush got away with as much s**t as he did. Do we really want to go down the same path of mindless approval based on a cult of personality?"
Can you pinpoint exactly where I compare Bush to Obama? Nowhere.
My concern is with the mindset of "you're either with us or you're against us". You pretty much made my point in your response.
I am NOBODY'S "follower". I either support you, or I disagree with you. I think for myself, and "follow" my conscience. I am not defined by who I support in a political campaign.
What was going on here during the primaries was alot of arguing and debating. I don't think there's anything wrong with that- democracy is messy and loud, and passionate. Alot of different voices wanting to be heard- and actually being allowed that opportunity. You have a problem with that? You don't have to like what they're saying, but you should damn well be willing to let them speak.
"The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with."
-Eleanor Holmes Norton
No doubt that when you support a candidate, you are much more attuned to what is said about them and perhaps, to take offense more quickly.
I think the problem stems from the fact that many people have come to equate their candidate with themselves.
I have absolutely no problem with your comments about HRC and the DLC- in fact, I shared that concern. I also was very, very disappointed in her vote on the Iraq war, although I did not consider it the mortal sin that so many others seem to have. I just would have loved to have seen more "spine" on her part- not that it would have made a damn bit of difference, or prevented the travesty which followed. There are other issues though, on which she truly impressed me, health care and her committment to womens issues being among the quickest to mind. I also just came to be so unbelievably impressed with how incredibly strong that woman is. Honestly, she is amazing, and that inner strength really won me over after Edwards dropped out. The constant harping and criticism she took from so many different quarters would have killed a lesser woman. We saw that strength during the Lewinsky scandal, and age has only deepened her resolve.
Certainly there are HRC supporters who go/went overboard, but I believe that the small audience they reach is insignificant in comparison to the reach of other outlets who constantly savaged Clinton- MSNBC springs to mind. The biased coverage they supplied did not do them any credit. They merely became the Fox news channel for democrats. Good for ratings,perhaps, but not so much for democracy.
And, Philoguy, I have to say, I think calling HRC supporters cult-like is the ultimate in false equivalency...that description would be much more suitable for many in the Obama camp, who refuse to see the man as a mere mortal doing whatever it takes to get elected. The contortions they performed trying to justify that FISA vote were pretty astounding. The danger in putting a politican on such a high pedestal is that when they inevitably fall off, the repercussions are so much worse than perhaps they should/could be.
You can not communicate to people who refuse to listen and who attack you for your opinions or preferences. Daily Kos became more than hostile, it became abusive to HRC supporters- and I can't tell you how sad that made me. I was one of the earliest Howard Dean supporters, and DK became a big part of my life from that time on. I'm not a big poster or diarist, but I read that site every day, two or three times a day. The viciousness that was allowed, even encouraged by some front pagers, was shocking to me. Leaving DK was like losing a home, but staying was impossible.
So now I'm here at MyDD, and thankfully, this place has a big tent, and all voices can be heard- not just those who are singing in the Obama choir. I'm willing to praise him when he deserves it, but I'll be damned if I will let him have a free ride just because he's a democrat! That mindset is scary, and it also is why Bush got away with as much s**t as he did. Do we really want to go down the same path of mindless approval based on a cult of personality?
What kind of pressure would you suggest putting on him?
I'm interested in what you think would make him respond.
Should I guarantee my vote with no conditions attached, just because I am a democrat, and hope that he will "re-see" the light on FISA?
Should I donate money and keep my fingers crossed that he will actually espouse the progressive values which he assured us he holds?
I actually agree with parts of your post.
I was not originally an HRC supporter (Edwards), and it was true that that whole inevitability thing was very annoying to non HRC supporters, and probably did encourage some ill will. However, the level of vitriol that ensued was both uncalled for and extemely destructive. Some Obama supporters (not all but enough that it became a considerable problem) went way, way over the line in their rhetoric. They took it to a point where HRC supporters felt personally attacked.
I also have to add that there are more than a few Obama supporters who should take your advice regarding listening to the criticism being leveled. Distortion, attack and faux victimhood seem to be all the rage these days.