Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

As I read Dana Goldstein's article "What Hillary Did For Women" I found myself agreeing with her on many points. For example, we owe Clinton our thanks because she...

...single-handedly changed the contours of our public debate about gender and politics, and even the roster of that debate's contributors. That's good for women, good for democracy, and good for progressivism. So Hillary Clinton, thank you.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?arti cle=what_hillary_did_for_women

I believe that thanks can be expressed in many ways such as a personal thanks, donating to Hillary, voting for her, defending her, etc. I sometimes hear women saying bad things about feminism but they enjoy so many gifts that feminists worked hard to give them. I sometimes think of saying to them, "You don't like feminists but you could not vote, go to college or own property without feminism." Women and girls owe a debt to the brave people who worked for women's rights and the brave women who, even though they may not think of themselves as feminists, forged a feminist pathway by doing "men's" work like being a politician, scientist, Olympic athlete, etc. I strongly believe that women should help women who have increased women's rights.

Tags: Hillary Clinton feminism women (all tags)



Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Another Hillary contribution:  her graceful, and surprisingly fast, switch to endorse her party's nominee, after coming oh so close to winning it.

I can't imagine another person (specifically, another man, since they're all men) who could do it as selflessly as she did-- despite being vilified as being self-serving, intent on destroying anything in her path to winning at all costs, a vampire, a triangulating bitch, a nice enough cold-hearted witch, a man, a superhuman subhuman, etc., etc..

Brava Hillary Clinton!

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 09:35AM | 0 recs
Anyone can be gracious

once the clock's run out and they've come up short, no matter how close it was.  I could see all of the '04 or 08 candidates (except for Joementum) behaving at least as graciously in her place.  Still, credit where due.  She didn't vow to "take it to Denver" or heap insencere praise on Obama.  Saying that supporting her ideals involves voting for him was the right way to put it.

Also, in a literal sense, I hope we are all feminists.  Feminism by definition is simply a belief in the equality of the sexes.  But yeah, maybe fewer cynics will tell the next top-tier woman candidate that we're not ready for the next woman president.

by corph 2008-07-08 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Anyone can be gracious

You're comparing 04 and 08 candidates?  No one came closer to the nomination than Hillary.  Kennedy in 1980 comes to mind-- but he had nowhere the number of delegates that Hillary got, and he took it to the convention, against a SITTING PRESIDENT.

Imagine that.

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 01:35PM | 0 recs
Only elections I've followed closely.

Yes, I'd say Clinton has been more gracious than Kennedy, although Carter's unpopularity might have made it MORE justifiable for him to take it to the convention.

I know none of the '04 or '08 candidates came as close.  I'm simply thinking that as good Democrats, they probably would have done the same (or even conceded right after the final primaries, instead of bunkering down with the "no decisions tonight" speech).  Clinton did the right thing; I just don't believe her show of grace was exceptional.

by corph 2008-07-08 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Only elections I've followed closely.

It is exceptional, by virtue of the fact that she came the closest to the nomination than any other also-ran.

The show of grace is also exceptional, because conventional wisdom thought she'd take it all the way to the convention.

In any case, your basic premise that her situation is comparable to 04 and 08 candidates is weak.  You continue to denigrate what Clinton has achieved.

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Only elections I've followed closely.

Thanks, Sieglinde.

I agree that what HRC did was EXCEPTIONAL.  Of course, we her supporters knew all along that this is what she would do...unlike Kennedy, for example.

Also, I think the writer you were responding to may well not get that she or he is dissing HRC.  Failure to see her and her dignity (women in general?) realistically is part of the sexism that this election has revealed.

by borlov 2008-07-08 03:25PM | 0 recs
For chrissakes

my point is that OTHER DEMOCRATS in her position would have behaved the same, maybe even better.  Yeah she came close, but there was nothing exceptional in the grace she showed bowing out.

And you don't get to decide what "conventional wisdom" was after the fact.  What would have been the point of taking it to the convention?  Obama had a majority of delegates, who showed no inclination to switch.  Do you remember how "conventional wisdom" reacted to her end-of-primaries non-concession speech?  The word "graceful" didn't come up very often.

by corph 2008-07-08 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: For chrissakes

Nothing exceptional in the grace she showed?  Washington through rose-colored glasses, to view such grace to be utterly unexceptional.

I can't recall any other instance in history in which a comparable situation occurred.  You are certainly entitled to insist that it's unexceptional, though the very definition of the word screams that it is, to my eyes and to many, exceptional.

Just as her awesome candidacy has changed history,  her act of grace will make future gracious concessions in super-tight races unexceptional.  

She continues to trailblaze, this thoroughly exceptional woman!

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 04:58PM | 0 recs
she got more votes

It's not over.....

by Teacher1956 2008-07-08 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Anyone can be gracious

Uprated for ratings abuse.

by hello world 2008-07-09 04:08AM | 0 recs

Geez, we can't even argue about the exceptionality of Clinton's gracefulness without the TRs flying.

by corph 2008-07-09 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

heh - and those were some of the nicer names she was called.

by Tolstoy 2008-07-08 03:40PM | 0 recs

...women shouldn't be the only ones thanking her.  I, being a male, need to thank her for insisting and proving that women are just as capable as men in any profession and for opening my eyes to the discreet measures of sexism.  Thank you Senator Clinton.

by hootie4170 2008-07-08 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Actually...

Took the words right out of my mouth.  Good for you; and who are you, now?  ;)

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-08 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Actually...

Add in my thanks.

During the Lowell Mill Strikes--yet another example of the role of women in bringing about social justice--there was a song entitled "Bread and Roses."  That song included the following line:  "the rising of the women means the rising of the race."  As true today as then, perhaps more dramatically so in the developing world (literacy, etc.), but also true here is the U.S.

As men, we must work hard to stamp out the sexism that this campaign showed was still so much part of the warp and woof of our society.  

by borlov 2008-07-08 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Nancy, will you EVER do any diary of a form other then:

Header about the Clintons.

Link to an article praising the Clintons.

Follow up with MORE praise for the Clintons.

At least in this one, you didn't get in a dig at Obama, as is usually your style.

But, is there ANYTHING ELSE you can add to the conversation here?

Have you, for example, noticed there is a general election going on?

Have an opinion on McCain or the Republicans?

I know, endlessly lavishing in Clinton praise is a mainstay of MyDD, but since you are bound to hit the rec list shortly, perhaps you can at some point add more to the conversation then endless Clinton worship?

by WashStateBlue 2008-07-08 09:56AM | 0 recs
is there a problem with

giving praise to someone who inspired more than 17 million people

by sepulvedaj3 2008-07-08 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

If you don't like her diaries, why do you read them and then comment in them? Doesn't the number of comments help diaries get on the rec list?

by georgiapeach 2008-07-08 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

IF you read my comment, I was making a statement direcly to Nancy.

She basically writes the SAME diary, over and over and over again.

And, of course, you can see by who downrated my comment, she is preaching to the same choir again and again.

It may serve a purpose to those who want to keep praising Senator Clinton, but I would like her to demonstrate something besides being a one-trick pony?

I just think, a place like this is best a place of interaction, not as a billboard for an agenda hawk like Nancy.

What does she add to the discourse?

I much prefer some interaction, give me an 100 Engel's diary out and out ripping Obama, over endless rehashes of the same theme over and over and over...

by WashStateBlue 2008-07-08 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

I knew that you were directing the comment to Nancy, although I am not familiar with her diaries. But if nobody reads them, recommends them, or comments in them, don't they scroll off the screen pretty quickly? I don't have time to read every diary, so I have to be selective. I always go to the bottom of the recent diary list and work my way up. If a diary  close to the bottom doesn't have many comments, I usually skip it unless I am familiar with the diarist's work.  The more people comment in a diary about how unnecessary/trollish/redundant/etc. it is, the more attention they draw to it.

by georgiapeach 2008-07-08 02:46PM | 0 recs
I'm waiting

for the 'Blacks, have you paid back Barack?" diary.

P.S. Gender/Racial tribalism is stupid.

by Maori 2008-07-08 06:28PM | 0 recs
Nothing wrong

There's nothing wrong with these diaries.

Last I checked, Hillary is still a Democrat, more progressive than other prominent figures, in fact.

MyDD is a home for Democrats, not just for Obama and his general election "lurching with abandon" as Bob Herbert aptly put it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/opinio n/08herbert.html

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 11:41AM | 0 recs

His comments weren't a troll.  Anyone rating him as such is breaking the site rules.  You may not like what he has to say but that doesn't give you the right to TR him.

As for me, I was OK with this diary.  It was yet another look backward, which I think is counterproductive at this stage, but it wasn't disrespectful to Obama either.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-08 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Uprated

When, in this campaign, so many Democrats showed their latent sexism it is ESSENTIAL TO LOOK BACKWARD.  Without looking at the past, we do not move forward.  It would apppear that the writer of the screed to Nancy doesn't think reflecting on the importance of Hillary--and the sexism we have seen--is important.  Well, it is...at least for anyone who wants to BE a progressive, not just talk the talk.

by borlov 2008-07-08 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Uprated

Oh please, that was a screed?

Jesus, you folks make Pavlov's dogs look like Iconclastic rebels and dangerous free thinkers!

Talk about conditioned knee-jerk response!

To the poster above, Go to Nancy Diaries by clicking on her name.

Type in Nancy's name in Google?

She's the same on Salon, here, anyplace she posts.

I stand by my post. She is a One Note symphony, it's even mostly the same format.

She finds an article, sometimes terribly dated, and creates a paeon to the Clintons, usually, not in this case, but often, she throws in a superflous dig at Obama.

And, the usual Clinton camp (yes, that means you Camp Skunk) who do NOTHING but live in 24/7 Clinton-ville came happily rec'ing along.

It wouldn't matter if the entire diary consisted Of adjectives and the Clinton name, it would slam to the Rec list.

At least, when you read a Clinton diary from Engels, or the old school from Linfar, they varied in style, they stayed around and punched it out with the Pro-obama folks.

Nancy is strictly looking for that Pavlovian response, and she always gets it, from exactly the same folks.

Go ahead, troll rate me, you know I am not a troll.

I am WAY more a member of this community then Nancy, she is a drive by dive-bomber, she ONLY posts on her diaries...

And you call my response a screed?

Ring the bell.  Get the response.

by WashStateBlue 2008-07-08 08:00PM | 0 recs

I am male and I thank her for actually making me EXCITED about this election.  Sadly, without her- I feel pretty tepid.  Can't wait to see what she does next.  She's got my support!

Yes, never again will it be "weird" for a woman to run for President.  In fact, I think she may have single-handedly broken down that glass ceiling.  Even though she didn't win- she ESSENTIALLY did win (if Michigan and Florida had actually had elections that COUNTED- she would be the nominee right now).  On top of that- she won states by HUGE margins even when she was outspent and completely counted out by the entire media.  She's a serious superhero to me.

by easyE 2008-07-08 11:15AM | 0 recs
Hillary is amazing!!

First of all, people who mention her husband was President, intentionally forget that she was a MAJOR reason he got there.

Since she announced for NY Senate seat, the pundits hated her.  She worked.  She got nominated.  She worked.  She got elected.  She got re-elected.  She just kept working.

Then she ran for President.  Let's be honest here.  Barack had the whole anti-Clinton machine behind him.  So it was pretty even match.  He outraised her.  Her campaign manager spent all her money.  But Hillary never quit.

Her true grit showed after February.  There is really no words for what she accomplished there.  She was no longer a front runner.  She had her back against the wall, and the whole bl---y media was out to get her (like sharks circling round a victim).  She campaigned.  She won the big states, the popular vote. She received the most votes in the history of the primary elections of either party.  

She did all this while being outspent 3 to 1, even 4, 5 to one. She did this under constant assault by the billion mass media ready to twist every statement of hers and give her opponent the benefit of every doubt possible.  She did this against the constant drum roll of "get out, you ...".

She is amazing and truely inspirational.  No matter what she does in future, I will never forget what she did for women in this election.

by ghost 2 2008-07-08 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Nice diary. About this part:

I sometimes hear women saying bad things about feminism but they enjoy so many gifts that feminists worked hard to give them. I sometimes think of saying to them, "You don't like feminists but you could not vote, go to college or own property without feminism."

Instead of thinking of saying that to them, actually say it! That is a way to pay back Hillary, and all of the feminist trailblazers that have improved the world for women. It's important that women recognize their history, their struggle, and the fact that there are still battles to be fought in order to have full gender equality.

Feminisim makes the world a better place for women and men.

by LakersFan 2008-07-08 11:54AM | 0 recs
Yes Yes Yes

thank you... we should all speak up and women have an obligation to do so.  If it were not for feminists we would be in a far different place.

by Teacher1956 2008-07-08 04:26PM | 0 recs
I think there's a good argument here...

...in that feminists of all kinds, women and men, should be grateful to Sen. Clinton as they should be to any trailblazer for women in our society.  Undoubtedly she's done a great deal to further the cause, and for that I salute her.

However, I bristle at the implication - which I might simply be seeing because of this diarist's history - that feminists somehow "owed" Sen. Clinton their support in the primary.  Perhaps that's not what the diarist is saying now, and if I'm misreading it I'm sorry, but I think I'm seeing that implied here.  As a feminist and an Obama supporter, I find that implication incredibly problematic.

by mistersite 2008-07-08 12:02PM | 0 recs
Yeah that bothered me a little too.

It's a mistake to wrap your ideals into one candidate, no matter how much you feel they embody them.

Feminists no more need to support Clinton than black liberation theologists need to support Obama.  I will believe we have achieved true equality when the identity politics have disappeared completely.

by corph 2008-07-08 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah that bothered me a little too.

Thank you.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Isn't it sexist to imply women owe Hillary something?

If it's racist for Blacks to vote for Obama, why is it okay for Hillary's big issue to be her gender?

by Maori 2008-07-08 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: I think there's a good argument here...

I don't know the writer's history, but I did not see that implication.  Indeed, if it were there, it would be a problem.

Being a feminist certainly does not require fealty to one person, but to a set of ideals about how we live in the world.  Regardless of which candidate we may have supported, I hope we can all agree that what HRC did was historic and important.

by borlov 2008-07-08 03:38PM | 0 recs
Why did you leave out men?

That's a bit sexist don't you think.

Many men were strong Hillary supporters, and are grateful that their daughters and sisters were liberated by Hillary's campaign.

Double standard.....?

by missliberties 2008-07-08 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Why did you leave out men?

Goes without saying.

Of course, men ought to be included too.  Heck, they're included in EVERY GODDAMN THING IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE, so yes, they should be included in this happy circle of gratitude.

But there's a special bond between women and Hillary, and NO MAN OUGHT TO THINK THEY OWN THAT TOO.

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 01:38PM | 0 recs
You sound a little angry

Imagine the uproar if someone posted a dairy with the headline.

Blacks have you paid back Obama yet?

Tell me you wouldn't go nuts.

by missliberties 2008-07-08 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: You sound a little angry

No, that's not a nutty headline for a diary.

Blacks owe a lot to Obama.  There is no doubt.

As a minority, I owe a lot to those from my background who have achieved in their fields.

They continue to pave the way for my easier success.

by Sieglinde 2008-07-08 02:37PM | 0 recs

I owe Obama $34.50.  Don't ask.

by Whash 2008-07-08 02:47PM | 0 recs
Most of those don't have a problem with feminists

Those women saying those things about feminists have a problem with extremists.  I'm a liberal but I don't like to be associated with PETA, for example.  Most feminists aren't extremists but they get painted by the same broad brush we all do, as thinking citizens.  We aren't Republicans who like to communicate in sound bites.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-08 01:38PM | 0 recs
I hate this response`

whenever I read or hear it.  Exactly what is an extremist feminist?  And how exactly does a movement for equality work if it doesn't have people leading who INSIST on equality?  We don't have it yet, so it looks to me that there need to be MORE "extremists" not less.  We also need more men and women who are willing to align themselves with equal rights and do not fear being called extremists.

by Teacher1956 2008-07-08 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I hate this response`
An extremist Feminist is a shrill, psychotic man-hater.
And I'm a woman, and have been involved with the Feminist movement, so do me the kindness of not pretending they don't exist.
They are a huge turn off, and do nothing to advance equality.
If there were more of them, Feminists would be a laughing-stock.
by Maori 2008-07-08 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I hate this response`

Thanks.  That was my point.  And I even said "Most feminists aren't extremists" to address this.  The point I was making was that the extreme elements of a position tend to be the ones who get the press and THAT is what represents an entire class of people to those who aren't really all that well educated.  People see the most flamboyant float at the gay pride parade on the news and those folks become representative homosexuals to a bunch of people.  Not because they're right but because that's just how it works for ignorant human beings.

And to the person who TR'ed me for my post above which was clearly NOT a troll, I hope you see this clarification and reverse your unfair rating.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-09 06:22AM | 0 recs
what, did you just fall off the Rush Limbaugh

Flamboyant gay people and extremist femininists are making "us" look bad?
I would suggest that you are not and never have been part of "us".  Grow some fucking spine and help out here, the battles are not over.

BTW, I LIKE flamboyant gay men and their crazy floats.  

by Teacher1956 2008-07-09 02:10PM | 0 recs
you just got troll rated for sexist

language and bullshit straight from the right wing women haters crew, when talking about women.  I'll stick with the extremists if this is what the rest of you have to offer.

by Teacher1956 2008-07-09 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Will you not be commenting in this diary in order to potentially ward off "spam"?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-08 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Very simple..
Where did Hillary's money go?
I ask anyone to defend Mark Penn..or the choice SHE made to make him her #1 GUY..and pay him obscene amounts of money..for what?..and still pay him the money she owes him when she can...
Mark Penn..his background..how he screwed up her campaign?
link'em yourself...

a simple google Mark Penn

by nogo postal 2008-07-08 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?
Well, I won't defend Mark Penn.  But I will attempt to address the Clinton campaign strategy.
The campaign was financed and spent based on a Super Tuesday strategy.  It was successful, in and of itself.  However, Obama's campaign was likewise successful in that his campaign went after red states (caucuses).  That kept him competitive.  She wasn't prepared for beyond Super Tuesday.  Without Obama's smart red state (caucuses) campaign tactic, she would have wrapped up the nomination.  IMO, the issue was not so much her bad strategy, that strategy has always worked, as it was his good strategy.
by ChitownDenny 2008-07-08 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

I maxed out in donation to Hillary and I don't give a damn how the money was spent.  There were no strings attached; the donation was an expression of my support for her candidacy.

by Tolstoy 2008-07-08 03:53PM | 0 recs
good diary
lots of patronizing responses of course, but some nice one's.  
Thanks for posting
by Teacher1956 2008-07-08 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

she doesn't expect to be rewarded, she'd like all women to do their best to exercise their own talents and reach for their own dreams.  

by anna shane 2008-07-08 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

she'd also like you to not support mccain.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-08 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

i don't support McCain. What is wrong with some of you, got to have someone to blame for something?  it's time to move on, Barack won, try being positive about him, he's not running against Hilary anymore not that going negative on her supporters ever helped him, but it's more than retarded now.  

by anna shane 2008-07-10 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

My sister is what some would call "retarded".  Fuck you and that word.

We're fine with Barack, and Hillary too- it's you and your little kitty club that we're negative on.  But we won't lose sleep.  Good luck trying to win the nomination at the convention.  That oughtta go fine.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-10 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

retarded has a normal meaning that isn't anything like a real mental disability, it's being purposefully backwards, and so far from an insult to anyone with a real disability as to be yet another sign of faux outrage.  but, at the same time, I apologize if your sister has been called ugly names just for being who she is.  That's always wrong, but since i would never use retarded for a person with a disability, I can't say that i insulted her, but perhaps with that comparison inadvertently elevated fatheads.    

by anna shane 2008-07-12 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

Retarded has a SLANG meaning, not a "normal" meaning.  Slang doesn't mean it's right.

If something is purposefully backwards, call it backwards, not "retarded".

The same way if something is lame, call it lame, don't call it "gay".

The same way if someone is negotiating hard for money, call it a tough negotation, don't say they're "Jew-ing" you.

Slang can be offensive, if you purport to elevate yourself over the rest of us, at least do it with language that's not from the eighth-grade playground.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-12 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Women, Have You Paid Back Hillary?

the truly lame won't like that.  

by anna shane 2008-07-13 09:01AM | 0 recs
Hillary has plenty of money.

Give it to someone in genuine need.  Seriously.

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-07-08 11:57PM | 0 recs
PS: Same goes for Obama.

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-07-08 11:58PM | 0 recs
Thank you Hillary

for being the impetus to me contributing more in dollars and time to any candidate in my lifetime.

Thanks for your spiteful attempt to marginalize him through your vile and contemptible campaign tactics.

And now you want me to lend a hand in retiring your massive debt because of that malicious behavior? Payback is a bitch.

by april34fff 2008-07-09 06:48AM | 0 recs


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