Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

As the San Diego Union Tribune pointed out today. Hillary Clinton is now the ONLY Presidential Candidate left in the race that supports mandatory Universal Health care for all Americans, leaving no one out of her plan.

I'll go one step further and say, imo, she is the ONLY REAL Democrat left in this race.

Tags: Barack Obama, campaign, Democrat, HillaryClinton, Presidential Race (all tags)



Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Obama's rating as the most liberal senator in 2007 makes him what? a commie?

This healthcare plan arguement is ok to have.
Ted Kennedy has watched 12 attempts to do this fall short. I think he knows which plan has a chance to actually getting done.

The GOP will rip HRC to shreds on this in the fall. Americans do not like to be told what to do or be threatened with prison.

I still have not heard how mandates are to be enforced? Anyone know?

by hawkjt 2008-02-02 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

And they are going to give Obama a complete waiver. All the adoring scribes like Broder, Krauthammer, Will, Tweety will turn on him like mad dogs the moment he becomes the nominee. Are you completely blind. And watching Obama partisans who claim to believe in UHC attacking the only realistic way we are ever going to get there is a strange experience. Unfortunately you have completely discarded political principle because it doesn't accord with your candidates position.  

by ottovbvs 2008-02-02 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

GOP can't rip Clinton to pieces.  They have used everything they can get to attack her and failed.  She's still standing and smiling.  What else they're going to use to attack her this time.  I couldn't find anything new.

On the other hand, Obama hasn't been vetted.  GOP will be digging up his past to use against him.  We will hear more things about him.  Could he defend himself?  Could he deflect the attack and win the argument?  We don't know.  The Rezko deal will be ripped into pieces and spun to attack Obama.  Granted I believe him that his house deal was a mistake, and that his letter was to support the housing project, not support Rezko.   The government housing project that he supported turned out 2/3 was not in working condition.  And GOP won't rip him to shreds?  I already hear the word incompetent coming.

His healthcare plan wouldn't work if healthy people can choose not to have it.  they will be the burden to the system when they got sick and need the hospital.  And asking people to pay the back penalty over the years that they don't have healthcare won't work either.  That will be a large sum of money. Do you think people will have enough saving to pay for those penalty?  And then you will face with the same problem that it's inhuman to turn away people at the hospital.  To solve the problem once and for all is to go for the universal healthcare, and bring the average cost down.

The plan that she propose is nothing radical.  It's the same healthcare plan that the congress staffs current have, but she will open it to all American.  And you can choose.  If you like your old plan, you can keep it.  If you don't have a plan or you want to extend your plan, you can choose from 250 options of the plan.  The same options that currently available to the congress staffs.   It couldn't get any simpler than that.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-02 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

They have not "failed".  They attacked the Clintons and were able to take and hold Congress for a decade.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

The Republicans did NOT fail.  Hillary may still be standing but besides taking control of the White house, Congress and Supreme Court, they managed to all but destroy America in the process, but isn't it nice to know that Hillary is still standing... Give me a break!

This is the most pathetic BS I hear over and over again.  She's still standing..... Big f'ing deal!  

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-02 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Ok.  GOP won the congress because American people voted for them.  And that was Bill Clinton administration.

Bush won the election because the American people voted for him, twice!.  American people made their judgement.  Why are you holding her against it?  You should ask yourself.

On her record, she got the children healthcare.  She won the NY senator,  twice!.  Did GOP try to shoot her down?  Yes!  Was Hillary bashing was a favorite past time in NY upstate?  Yes!  Did she win them over?    OHHHHHHH YES......!!

by JoeySky18 2008-02-03 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.  Let me spell it out.  BIG F'NG DEAL, she is "still standing", that is no reason to support her.  Every politician who wins an election is "still standing", Jesse Helms and Strom Thurman were "still standing" until their old decrepit carcasses fell off their wheel chairs.  

The fact is you vote for someone's character and accomplishments rather than their "still standing" after their opponents attacked them.  EVERY politician who wins, including Republicans can rightfully be describes as "still standing".  I am sick of hearing such a meaningless, stupid and worthless statement being repeated ad nausea and being accepted as a real reason to support someone.  It just shows me how little some people know.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-05 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I still have not heard how mandates are to be enforced? Anyone know?

Same way Obama's mandates will be enforced. Add it up. Obama mandates the first 25 years of life, then another 25 years when you have your own kids. 50 years. Whining about mandates made him look hypocritical and weak during the debate. And you could tell by his stammering answer, when asked how his mandates would be enforced, that he knew it too.

by ineedalife 2008-02-02 12:00PM | 0 recs
Most Liberal Senator

That most liberal Senator tag was awarded by a conservative publication that coincidentally named Kerry most liberal Senator in 2004. national-journal-rates-obama-1-liberal- senator

by antiHyde 2008-02-02 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Ah, using the craptacular rankings from right-wing site NATIONAL JOURNAL again?

Less biased sites tell the tale of a completely different picture, as Crooks and Liars pointed out.  

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Who knew the only Democrat would be the spouse of the president who declared "the era of big government is over," passed welfare reform, signed DOMA, and rammed NAFTA down our throat.

I assume Hillary disagreed with all that though.  :)

by HSTruman 2008-02-02 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

real Dem's are shills for the right-wing didn't you know that?

by Jim Engler 2008-02-02 07:45AM | 0 recs
Yeah, those Clinton years wer so anti-progressive.

I know, I know, they were awful. Just awful. We hear every day as the handful of missteps by the Clinton/Gore administration are endlessly touted, and the rest of what they did is buried as fast as the pundits and the blogs can shovel. But here are some facts:

There was the lowest unemployment rate for three decades, and African Americans had the lowest unemployment rate EVER IN RECORDED HISTORY under the Clinton/Gore administration.

There was the biggest investment in education that there had been for 30 years.

We had the lowest poverty rate in two decades.

There was the biggest drop in child poverty for three decades as well, and it was sustained.

They vastly expanded HeadStart.

They more than doubled federal funding for childcare.

They expanded Pell grants and college help, including beginning the HOPE scholarships.

FMLA was enacted.

There was the lowest crime rate in 25 years

They gave health care to over 6 million children

Americorp began, allowing students to pay off their education expenses through community service.

There was the highest home ownership rate IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THIS
COUNTRY, including the highest minority home ownership rate EVER RECORDED.

We had the longest period of real wage growth since the 60's.

They blocked both offshore oil drilling and oil drilling in the Arctic Refuge.

They enacted Clean Air standards, and drastically reduced auto emissions.

They cleaned up three times as many toxic waste Superfund sites as the previous 2 administrations, as well as restoring several rivers.

They increased funding for climate change research to 1.7 billion.

They did all of this while taking us from record deficits to a record surplus.

Given all of the above, I get a little weary of ignorant blowhards running around jeering at the 90's as "more of the same" and pretty much relegating Bill's administration to the crap pile.

No, it wasn't more of the same. It was one of the only bright spots of progressive achievement in this country for 40 years. Did they accomplish all that I hoped? No. Did they compromise more than I would like, and have some failures? Of course.

So keep trotting out your same old  "nyah nyah NAFTA" tired line.  Hillary was actually not in favor of NAFTA at the time, and has said it has serious problems now.

Clinton did a pretty good damn job from where I stand, and by the standards of the vast majority of Liberals and Democrats. nts/additional.html

by WMCB 2008-02-02 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, those Clinton

And we lost Congress for a decade and will again in 2010.  Thanks Clinton, you bitch.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, those Clinton

Fuck you, you pig.  Iron my vote, asshole.

by WMCB 2008-02-02 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, those Clinton years wer so anti-progress

Before someone files this demurral as coming from an Obama partisan, let me note that I am not one.

Clinton fans always cite the 1990s as an example of wonderful leadership. They invariably fail to note that two things happened which Bill Clinton had essentially nothing to do with.

(a) The Cold War ended and there was a fat peace dividend available.

(b) There was a US-led Internet technology boom which gave a prodigious boost to tax receipts at all levels. Take a look sometime at the federal tax take during the Clinton years, as a percentage of GDP. Ex-capital-gains, which is to say without the dot-coms, it is essentially flat.

Anyone who was President at the time would have benefited thereby. (And would have taken credit for, just as Clinton does.)

Both of these were essentially one-time events and will not be repeated.

More to the point, all of the politically uncontrollable outside events which are likely to occur during the next Presidency are going to be profoundly negative and damaging ones, rather than lucky positive ones. We're going to get Peak Oil, Peak Food, Peak Fresh Water, the end of the dollar hegemony, the retirement of a bunch of baby boomers (many of them totally unprepared for it), and this is going to come as one big pizza combo of bad, bad trouble.

Let me further note that one reason black unemployment looked superficially low during the Clinton years was that a huge cohort of young black men had been locked up on drug charges starting during the 1980s, a process that continued entirely unabated all the way through the Clinton administration.

If even half of those guys had not been in the Graybar Motel, they would have been out looking for work, and those labor statistics for African-Americans would have looked a lot less promising. This is pure Statistics 101: if you want to make your numbers look better, artificially excluding unfavorable subjects from the sample is a great start.


by marquer 2008-02-02 12:12PM | 0 recs
Don't waste your breath

Clintonites are not capable of understanding complex economic structures.  Their understanding of basic reality does not extend beyond... "Clinton good"...

Anyone with two brain cells can tell you that the internet bubble of the early 90's had a HUGE effect on sustaining an unsustainable economy.  The housing bubble has done the same for Bush.

The reality of both is that bubble are bubbles period, they look pretty, float around and keep us distracted while disaster looms, but some people just refuse to see what is right in front of their face.

Those who want to portray the Clinton years as some sort of Kennedyesque Camelot are deluded beyond repair.  I pity the next President, because whom ever it is will have a real disaster on their hands. one that will make the "great Depression" look like Disneyland.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-02 02:24PM | 0 recs
But, But

During the Reagan years we had clarity, optimism,and a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing in our lives. We knew what it meant to be Americans. That had to be better.  <snark>

by MOBlue 2008-02-02 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, those Clinton years wer so anti-progress

How about AEDPA, IIRIRA, & sentencing?

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, those Clinton years wer so anti-progress

You forgot to add eight years of Bush and an energized right.  

by jmaki 2008-02-02 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

not to mention Hillary enabling the Bush administration on the Iraq war, Iran, and generally being supportive of  major Bush foreign policy decisions in general

nice Democratic principles, those

I can hold my nose to vote for Obama in the GE, I cannot vote for another 4 years of Clinton

but then again, I'm not a democrat, so you probably don't care how I vote, right?

by brooklyngreenie 2008-02-02 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Obama has always seemed like he's ashamed to be a Democrat.
I'll never forget his debut on Conan 6 months before the Nov. 06 election.  His entire "performance" was all about HIM.
He never mentioned the word "Democrat" or "Democratic Party" or "election" - and certainly didn't encourage a NATIONAL audience to register to vote or VOTE in the Nov. election.

Obviously, Obama thought one had to be a prez candidate to encourage voter registration - which he began doing AFTER he became a prez candidate.
It's all about HIM - not the party.

by annefrank 2008-02-02 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

he's was promoting a book was he not?  his entire premise and reason for being on the show was the book, which inherently means it was "about him".

by Jim Engler 2008-02-02 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I don't remember anything about a book.

by annefrank 2008-02-02 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

It was only the #1 political best seller of 2006.  No reason you should remember.

by upper left 2008-02-02 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!
Was the book mentioned on that Conan show?
I don't remember it.
But perhaps I wasn't clear - there was an election in 6 months that Dems really really really wanted to win - and Obama failed to say anything about it.
by annefrank 2008-02-02 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

What a liar.  Obama raised millions for Dems and travelled to over thirty states on behalf of other Dems.  

I don't mind that you prefer other candidates.  I do mind your style a great deal.  Try a little honesty in your comments, you might like it.

by upper left 2008-02-06 03:54AM | 0 recs
I respect candidates

who try to get their party nominatons by addressing the party.  

Or else,

why have a party?

This is not the time for independents or republicans to influence our party, unless we choose to allow that ourselves.

Hillary is running a great campaign that will build up the Dem party.

Here contention in the debate that at least in the primary we must stand on principle and go for a univesal healthcare plan is right on point.

If you compromise in the beginning, t only gets worse later.

by yellowdem1129 2008-02-02 07:51AM | 0 recs

Clinton says nothing about picking up Congressional seats, while Obama does.  Elect Clinton and lose Congress in 2010.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect candidates

I personally don't support vouchers, but I don't consider that a core democratic value.  Frankly, I think our public schools need shaking up and that is one of a number of policies that deserve consideration.  While I don't agree with it, it's not a core principle like universal health care.

by markjay 2008-02-02 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect candidates

Vouchers is not a value system. It is a METHOD to achieve something. Now if you do not like it, that is fine. But you have shown yourself incapable of discussion. So shut the fuck up if you cant debate.

by Pravin 2008-02-02 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect candidates

So you think all those new voters are coming out for her?

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I respect candidates

They are coming out for Obama.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: I respect candidates

I believe that's correct. I wonder if they'll keep coming out if he loses.

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

He was the most sought after democratic spokesman in the 06 election and did a huge service to the party by campaigning all over the country and raising money for dem candidates.

This smear is just dumb and untrue.
Annefrank...gone over to HRC I guess. John Edwards would be surprised that you chose the status quo candidate as he pointed out about a dozen times.
Guess you embrace status quo. Good for you.

by hawkjt 2008-02-02 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

You have to admit he is a bit me, myself and I oriented. Even some of the adoring sycophants in the press have commented on it.  

by ottovbvs 2008-02-02 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Actually that was Wes Clark... ask Jon Tester.

by durendal 2008-02-02 11:36AM | 0 recs
Yes, here, here!

If we want to be both successful against McCain or Romney in the general election AND successful in implementing real progressive policy, we'll need a candidate who's ready to go to the mat for us and defend our our progressive Democratic vision for this nation. That's why we need Hillary. She's fought alongside us her whole life, and she'll continue to stand by our side and work with us to deliver the change we need on health care, the economy, climate & energy, foreign policy, and so much more.

We care about our Democratic Party, and that's why we're for Hillary! :-)

by atdleft 2008-02-02 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, here, here!

Here, here, could not disagree more.

Hillary (and Bill) has been referred to as Republican Lite so often in the past, that I am surprised that anyone could call her, or Bill, Democrats any more. Bill moved beyond the center, to the right of center with some basic changes in the Democratic agenda, and I don't just mean "changing welfare as we know it," welfare, one of the fundamental programs comprising the Democratic safety net. But when he announced that "the era of Big Government is over," he was just stating that liberal-socialism, the work of FDR, Truman, Kennedy-Johnson, and the other social Democrats running Congress from WWII until the Reagan era, is dead, and it was time for Democrats to flirt with big business and free markets, and turn our backs on struggling minorities, the middle class, and the poor.

These changes are so fundamental that it is hardly appropriate to consider the Billary act Democrat in nature.

Sorry, and I think Ted Kennedy sees this as well, only Obama is ready to resume the mantle of a real Democratic president.

by shergald 2008-02-02 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, here, here!

Well, unfortunately it looks to be too late to stop Hillary in the primary.  Oh, well, I can always vote for McCain in the general.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, here, here!

"Hillary (and Bill) has been referred to as Republican Lite so often in the past, that I am surprised that anyone could call her, or Bill, Democrats any more."

Referred to as such by people like yourself and an assortment of others who have no earthly idea what it is they are talking about.  How is that convincing?  DEMOCRATS see things differently than you.  They overwhelmingly are rejecting Obama and embracing Hillary.  He tries to make that deficit up with Independents, but that is an uphill battle.   I think we DEMOCRATS are better qualified to judge who is a true Democrat than Independents and cross-over Republicans.

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Not really

She says she supports universal healthcare.  However, actions speak louder than words.  Her actions - accepting hundreds of thousands in healthcare and pharma lobby contributions.  She is in their backpocket.

Honestly, do you really believe she will be able to push through a universal plan with these contributions?

When it comes to advocating for real change, you can't go with someone who accepts such significant contributions from those who want to protect the status quo.

If she's the real Democrat left, then we're in trouble.

Support a candidate who won't owe all the lobbyists when he takes office.

Can't wait for the Tuesday surprise when Hillary doesn't win it all.  Time to rock the establishment.

by passionateprogressive 2008-02-02 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Not really

"doesn't win it all"?  Has anyone ever claimed she would win all states?

If she wins 14 states and he wins 6, that is absolute landslide territory, and will be handled as such.  I believe that is a pretty realistic W-L scenario.  

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Not really

By "win it all" I meant enough delegates to seal her path to the nomination.  Fairly enough that probably wasn't clear.

But I'm responding to this today given the numbers you projected above:

Dreamworld  HRC 14 v. BO 6
Reality     HRC 8 (9?) vs. B) 13

Failing to meet expectations by such a wide gap in the states is going to shake her campaign up.  She may recover, but it does look favorable for Obama.

Can't wait to see another day of Hillary posters on the defensive trying to spin this one.

Now she'll have to start trying to win the less democratic way- not by the voters, but by the establishment super delegates.  It will be interesting.

by passionateprogressive 2008-02-06 08:09AM | 0 recs
Woot! So true. Hillary has our back.

by masslib1 2008-02-02 08:32AM | 0 recs
15 million Americans

will be left out of her plan, same as his.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-02 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: 15 million Americans

BALONEY.  Proof?

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: 15 million Americans

Do you have proof that Obama's plan will leave out 15 million? The point is that mandates aren't magic. Their effectiveness depends on the enforcement mechanism, and Hillary's 'enforcement mechanism' won't bring in significantly more people than Barack's plan.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-03 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Hillary's showing the courage to run exclusively as a Dem; Obama is pandering to non-Democrats to bring out the vote.  Why?  If he was totally dependent on Dem votes, he'd lose this race handily.

by izarradar 2008-02-02 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I'm sure Obama is a great guy.  I don't have anything against him.

But to be fair, Clinton definitely knows more about the job than Obama.  She has been tested, again and again, and she still standing and deliver.  Universal Healthcare was a difficult issue, and she took it heads on. Of cause she failed, with the Republican Senate objection.  But she didn't give up, she then pushed for the children healthcare with success.  During her time as NY Senator, she works to improve the life of New Yorker, city and rural alike.  New York state was a strong hold of Republication.  And she won it on her first try for NY Senator.  She won the second term with 60% majority.  And that speaks volume.  If you said the first try was a fluke, she shouldn't have won the second term.  So much you can hold her against the electability issue.

Of cause her solution-oriented mindset brush people off in the wrong way.   But the choice will come down to the race between the tested and untested, between style and substance.  I hope the American people will not cast their presidential vote as they cast their American Idol vote where the good looking one that couldn't sing a note seem to thrive every time.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-02 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

You think she'll stand up for Democratic values or fold like her husband?

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Obama is most divisive candidate by far.
GWB has showed more respect(eventhough it was for his own good) not to run against Clinton(except the dignity jab).

Here Obama is demonizing a Dem. Hero(we do not have to wait 50 or 60 yrs to call Clinton yrs are extremely successful for all people) in his own party.

I always believe that as a whole Republicans are better in upholding their traditions and respect for their leaders.

by BlueSea 2008-02-02 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I did not see Hillary show any more leadership when many Democratic party leaders were demonizing the Deans and Lamonts of the party.

Obama is definitely in need of some improvement, but so is Hillary.

by Pravin 2008-02-02 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Who is a Dem hero? The person who brought us DADT, DOMA, IIRIRA, NAFTA, welfare "reform" & sentencing disparities, or the person who helped bring us Iraq and signed Kyl-Lieberman?

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Obama is most divisive candidate by far.

It's no wonder this website is struggling to find 10k in donations..

by soros 2008-02-03 04:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

universal health care is a core democratic value. that's the standard i measure candidates against.

by campskunk 2008-02-02 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

How about mandatory health insurance? That seems to be a bit different..

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Hillary 08! It's a new day, a new time in America -- a woman will be elected president and care for the wounded country we've become.

Hillary will do more to help the poor, the sick, the elderly, women and children, minorities, including gays and lesbians than any president since these united states were born.

Change is coming...and "Yes, she can!"

by seattlegonz 2008-02-02 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

If by real democrat, you mean corporate-minded, out of touch, ethically-challenged conservative who will sell out whole constituencies to defend ethically-challenged spouse, yes, she's the only one.  

by PositiveFreedom 2008-02-02 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

No, the mean the Democrat by family relation.Isn't that how you choose your candidates? By last name?

by ElitistJohn 2008-02-02 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Only one Democrat left in this race.  That's a risky narrative.  What will you do in the increasingly likely scenario that there aren't any?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Pre-emptive wars are not a democratic principle, I thought.. of course HRC does not agree.

She is the war candidate.
And that is a loser in the fall.

by hawkjt 2008-02-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Yes! And it ain't HRC. I hope that the voters wipe that smirk off her face on Tuesday. Did she pick that up from W when Bill became his adopted brother?

by antiHyde 2008-02-02 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

What about George? Look at his experience. Experience at screwing up doesn't count.

And what's with that "35 years" crap? Does sleeping with Bill count as political experience? Let's draft  Monica Lewinsky.

by antiHyde 2008-02-02 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Mandatory health insurance is crap.

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I totally agree, there is only one Democrat in this race. I met Michelle Obmama years ago in Illinois, before they were running. I was struck by something that bothered me. I could not put a finger on it until Obama praised Reagan (yea, he praised him). And then I realized, Obama and Michelle are really Republicans, but did not have a chance of winning as a Republican, so they ran as Democrats.

by moi moi 2008-02-02 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

It's true. There are a lot of secret Republicans working with the poor on the South Side of Chicago. Maybe he secretly worked for Walmart too. I'm sure that he'd pass laws like DOMA, DADT, AEDPA, IIRIRA, etc.. Those are really Republican positions. Who passed those? George I right?

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Just shut up about the Reagan stuff.  Obama was right and you know and so does Bill Clinton.  Ronald Reagan changed the electorate in ways that Clinton did not.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I am an ex Richardson supporter (he lost me before he got out) and then an Edwards supporter.  Now I am leaning to Obama, here is why:

  1. Clinton will create too much opposition (justified or not).  I know too many independants and Republicans who will vote for Obama but not for Clinton.
  2. As much as I want to gain control of a 60 vote majority the WH and then stick it to the bastards, such behavior would actually be short sighted.  In the era of climate change, and global instability due to the collapse of the American economic hegemony, we need to create a new politics than unites non corporate populists of the right, left and independant wings of all parties.  Obama is speaking that language.  Clinton is not.
  3. Clinton is tied to the beltway consultants that have centralized party power and were opposed to the 50 state strategy of Dean before 2006.  Her reliance on them is good for machine politics and insider deal making, but bad for the body politic.

Now I have my list for Obama as well.....He has not yet learned (and will to our great dismay) that no one who holds power will give it away in some conference committee.  Clinton learned it in '93 when the health care industry stabbed her in the back after her careful and seemingly successful negotiations with them.  He offers the words of unity but his policies cannot always unite.  Sometimes we just need to be better organized and play to win.  I don't think he knows this.

Neither of their health care plans fix health care.  Even a single payer system cannot fix it.  In order to fix it we need to transition away from vertically organized multi specialty organizations that are built to negotiate better rates from payers and a single payer system is the mechanism that is needed to return the system to taking care of people and not focusing on the bottom line.

So without a lot of enthusiasm I support Obama.  

by jono 2008-02-02 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I can not see why Republicans who have voted for Obama in the primaries will continue to vote for him if McCain receives the nomination. Hillary will not loose many but I can see people switch from Obama to McCain in massive scale in general election. I would not trust too much those who are so-called "independent" or "Obamacans" who are voting for him in our primaries.

I do not think you can be a true uniter without your own stance. If someone really want to be a uniter, he or she needs to be very clear about what he and she wants and how much he or she can negotiate. Negotiation with principles. Obama does not have any stance. He is offering pretty much everything to everybody. It is not being a uniter. It is being a "pleaser" and we all know that pleasers are not the best negotiators you want to have.

Finally, I truly think Republicans can destroy Obama in a few weeks because WE DO NOT KNOW hardly anything about his possible weaknesses thanks to MSM, which is actually very fishy.

by praxis1 2008-02-02 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

You dont think Republicans will destroy Clinton?  They will and they wont just destroy her, they will destroy the whole party.  That is the main difference between the two.  If Clinton gets destroyed, the whole party goes down with her.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 03:49PM | 0 recs
Indies, Reps and McCain

Some will and some won't go to him if Obama is the nomiinee but none will go for HRC. So Obama has all the dems and some indies and reps. Not to mention all of the new voters Obama brought in. Can't expect them to be as motivated with HRC as the nominee.

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Indies, Reps and McCain

Disagreed.  Hillary has brought out new voters for us in hordes.  Women are coming out in record numbers, and they are driving turnout.  Many have never voted in their lives.  If Hillary were not to win the nomination, many will not suddenly switch to Obama, just become disinterested again.  Also, Obama leaves Hispanics cold, who have come to Hillary in droves.  Many of them won't be converted to Obama voters, will either go back to the GOP or become disinterested again.  

Obama is generally less liked amongst voters than Hillary.  If you look at fovarability ratings, you usually get Obama in the 60s somewhere (Rasmussen's latest polls have Obama at 62% fav. rating amongst LVs in the Alabama primary and 67% in Missouri) and Clinton generally in the 80s (low to mid.)   That will make a difference with Obama simply not seeing a lot of voter enthusiasm come his way (outside his supporters and certain echo chambers, of course.)

Then you have Obama's problem amongst Democrats, many who simply don't think of him as one of us.  His post-partisan statements have turned many partisans off, so it is a lot more likely that the base won't be out in force for Obama.  

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Indies, Reps and McCain

I agree with all of that. I also the independents and moderate Republicans who have been voting for Obama in open primaries will vote for McCain in the GE.

by LakersFan 2008-02-02 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

He wrote a book. If there was more dirt HRC would have found it and used it.

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!
agreed. thank goodness for wisdom and common sense!
by nance 2008-02-02 04:18PM | 0 recs

Though I'm not sure minorities and immigrants can survive any more of it.

by illlaw1 2008-02-02 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I agree very much here.  Everybody in the country knows who Hillary is and if she is not leading McCain now, she is not going to beat him in November.  She has no place to go but down.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-02 06:32PM | 0 recs
I agree

A dEmcorat has to be for universal health care

by debcoop 2008-02-02 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Er, yeah. Health care mandates, just like the mandates supported by Mitt Romney, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and John Howard (right wing ex-PM of Australia).

Sorry, that's not a progressive policy. That's using the power of the federal government to hand over millions of new customers to the corrupt for-profit health insurance industry, and to punish those who don't.

by s5 2008-02-02 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

I think it is pretty obvious that DEMOCRATS have decided for the most part that they agree with the crux of the argument advanced in this diary.  So, those registered DEMOCRATS are choosing Obama far, far less than they choose Hillary for the very reason that they simply don't feel that Obama would fight for THEM, their concerns, their values, their ideals.  That is a pretty powerful argument right there.  If you don't think that a candidate will fight for your party values and party ideals, then you really don't consider that person an integral part of your party.  

I think on Feb. 5 we will see a similar alignment.  DEMOCRATS will be choosing Hillary overwhelmingly and largely dismissing Obama.  That speaks louder and clearer to any perceived party affiliation/concern in this particular alignment than bloggers waxing poetically.

by georgep 2008-02-02 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race! Not quite

Zogby tracking poll just released:


Both parties have staged tight, seesawing battles for the nominations for November's presidential election. Clinton, the New York senator, and Obama split the first four Democratic contests -- Obama won Iowa and South Carolina, while Clinton won New Hampshire and Nevada.

In California, the poll found Obama led Clinton by 45 percent to 41 percent, with a margin of error of 2.9 percentage points. Clinton held statistically insignificant 1-point leads on Obama in New Jersey and Missouri, well within the margin of error of 3.4 percentage points in both surveys.

Both candidates have established a strong base of support and are holding on to it ahead of Tuesday's voting, the poll found. Clinton leads among women, Hispanics and elderly voters. Obama leads among blacks, men and young voters.

"They are running very close, essentially evenly split, among most of the rest of the sub-groups," Zogby said. "It is a very tight, very contested race on almost every level."

by BDM 2008-02-02 09:12PM | 0 recs

This post of yours does not at all discuss the topic at hand, namely the ideological breakdown of Clinton generally winning over a majority DEMOCRATS while Obama makes that up partially by winning a share of Democrats, but relying mostly on Independents.

by georgep 2008-02-03 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!
Insteresting article in NY Times about Obama having lied in Iowa about having passed piece of legislation (which never passed and which he had to rewrite over and over to make it less threatening to Republicans and to some of his major campaign contributors).
The title is Nuclear Leaks and Response Tested Obama in Senate itics/03exelon.html?_r=1&ex=13597812 00&en=dc32a822488c8617&ei=5088&a mp;partner=msnbcpolitics&emc=rss& ;oref=slogin
by LovingIT 2008-02-03 03:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Only 1 Democrat left in this race!

Todd or Jerome--can't remember which one--said that Barack Obama is running against the Democratic Party.

That is the truth. Here's a man consistently lying about his record, and using RIGHT WING frames to undermine progressive values, Democratic Party platforms. He's using free market ideology--long a right-wing strategy--to undermine the concept of government as a fair arbiter for the COMMON GOOD of the entire country; undermining "new deal" programs a plank at a time, using the word "choice"--like "choice" of a Social Security "private account" which only undermines Social Security.

This is how the right-wing works. Barack Obama has capitulated time and again to right wing tactics, right wing talking points, and right-wing ideologies.


by Tennessean 2008-02-03 05:06AM | 0 recs


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