UPDATE: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

MSNBC just reported that Joe Biden stated on a campaign stop in New Hampshire that Hillary Clinton would be a better Vice Predential pick than him.

My thoughts exactly. We even now have the Democratic Vice Presidential Nominee acknowledge that Hillary would be better at this "game" than him.

How can the Obama campaign run and effective campaign when they are not on message and they themselves appear not to be unified.

God help us if Obama loses this election.

Update [2008-9-10 17:41:58 by mtg44234]:Here is the link just hitting the news network... http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/biden-hillary-a.html

Tags: Election 2008 (all tags)

Comments

143 Comments

Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

If he stated that then he would be stating the obvious .

by lori 2008-09-10 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

I thought it was a classy thing to say.  And here Biden is supposed to have this huge ego, too.

by Steve M 2008-09-10 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Biden's nothing if not honest. I love the guy and he was my pick second only to Hillary but he's like that uncle at the dinner that's loved but just ruffles the adults in the room.

On the contrary he's got the smallest ego in the room - if your room is full of presidential candidates that is.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-09-10 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

"On the contrary he's got the smallest ego in the room - if your room is full of presidential candidates that is."

Thats a great line.

I like Biden

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 04:53PM | 0 recs
Biden is the VP nominee. Let's make him VP.

Follow Hillary's lead and support Obama

by Pragmatic Left 2008-09-10 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Excellent analysis!  Highly rec'd!

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 12:58PM | 0 recs
A STUNNINGLY NEW DIARY SUBJECT!

Wow, why hasn't any other diary here come up with the radical never discussed idea that Hillary should have been the VP choice?

I bow to your amazing originality, and at your brave approach to covering radical new ground.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-10 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: A STUNNINGLY NEW DIARY SUBJECT!

Loving the snark...just LOVIN it! Thank you WSB! :)

by multilee 2008-09-10 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: A STUNNINGLY NEW DIARY SUBJECT!

you miss the point. Here is a guy who is willing to speak the truth, even if it's hard for some to hear. That's what the campaign needs more of, not dividing democrat from democrat but admitting some truth and then getting on with winning. I know that, and he also said she's qualified to be president. I don't think he's saying Sarah is?  I don't think he's pretending Barack is saving us from the dreaded Clinton's and pissing off even more her 18 mil voters? Barack should say the same thing, and he should say he wants her in the senate, he'd like her to be majority leader, he needs legislation written correctly so that if elected he can sign it. He can say it's not only the top of the ticket that makes things happen, he has an honest vp pick and he wants the best talent in the Senate. In other words, share. It would go a long way toward making people who aren't quite sure about what he'll do trust his judgement, his honestly and trust that he won't put his own ego out there, he won't be making decisions on war and peace based on his gut.  This is the sort of speaking he's promised he'll be able to do, Biden is showing his change message.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: He basically did say that

more to come?  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 06:12PM | 0 recs
or to be VP

because Biden just smashed his own judgment for accepting a spot for which he admittedly isn't the most qualified, and Obama looks bad for picking that. Biden should fake sick or something for his party and country.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: or to be VP

neither.  He just stuck up for Hillary when it was suggested to him that he was such a better choice. He's glad to  be on the ticket but he loves her and knows her value. That makes the ticket more attractive, not less.  It's delightful.  It's reaching out to us. I appreciate it.  And I'd vote for Barack anyway, he was my second choice anyway, and I want him to win, but not by pretending he was the only possibility we had.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 07:54PM | 0 recs
there are other ways to stick up

for someone than to say something that could be construed by the Republicans to be what I said it could be spun. When he said "perhaps more qualified than me," and Hillary "might have been a better pick," thats when he put his foot in his mouth. Those two things there was no reason had to be said by Biden. he could have said the rest without those two clauses.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: there are other ways to stick up

no need to win pugs, it's Democrats that voted for her that appreciate his comment, saying out out loud, and are more likely to feel good about voting for them.  Who cares what the pugs think?  They won't vote for him anyway.  This is just made up, not an issue, let's talk about Iraq?  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

he's just saying what everyone knew all along and what everyone is thinking now post-palin.

what says nancy pelosi, et al? after all, they got their wish for a non-dream team ticket. now it's turning into a nightmare ticket.

by darwinism 2008-09-10 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

If Clinton had been selected Palin wouldn't even have been in contention.

by Why Not 2008-09-10 02:19PM | 0 recs
Donuts for spaceman spiff

We apologize or interrupting your normal donut delivery service.  Your regulary-scheduled donut deliveryman will return shortly.

Please accept this lesser donut as a mark of our sincerity to return to full donut production in due time.  This donut can be assume to apply to most of the comments you will make in the interim.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-09-10 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!
The Following Users Have Recommended This Diary:
darwinism
by venician 2008-09-10 02:35PM | 0 recs
Great!!!

so now even Biden agrees that Obama is a discrimating sexist for not choosing the "better" female candidate......

Well that'll gain you votes with women!!!

by nikkid 2008-09-10 01:02PM | 0 recs
Huh?

I don't get any of that...speaking as a woman.

by grannyhelen 2008-09-10 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Huh?

Proof that stupidity favors neither gender.

by fogiv 2008-09-10 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Great!!!

Meh, mediocre troll, I give it a 3 out of 10.

by ragekage 2008-09-10 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Great!!!

Far too generous, Rage.

by fogiv 2008-09-10 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Great!!!

If they actually snag someone, I usually give 'em points.

by ragekage 2008-09-10 08:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Great!!!

Heh, heh, heh.

by Hollede 2008-09-10 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Or maybe

that's not true. She said she'd do whatever, and she was open to that but that she didn't think he'd ask her. She wanted it. she wanted to help him win.  But that's not this issue, this issue is Joe being asked a question that was basically aren't you the better of the two, and him saying, actually no.  he was invited to disparage her and instead he stood up for her excellence.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't believe she WANTED it

no, that's a rumor. It isn't true.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

Yes, but anna has some sources over at Alegre's litterbox.  'Nuff said.

by fogiv 2008-09-10 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

yeah?  I think I've been following Hillary. Is his source Hillary?  I think that would have been made public, by Barack.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 08:28PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

Uh, we've all been following Hillary.  Nrafter has presented far more credible bona fides (both within this thread and elsewhere) on this particular subject.

If you're inside sources are more credible, by all means, present them post haste.

by fogiv 2008-09-10 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

only that it would not be kept secret?  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

huh?

by fogiv 2008-09-10 10:50PM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

they'd both proclaim that were it true.  It would help him win, and both Barack and Hillary want him to win.  he can say something about wanting her in the senate to write legislation that they'll be partners in solutions.  

by anna shane 2008-09-11 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

You don't think that the MSM would read such an announcement as "Hillary and Obama hate eachother"?  Remember, the time when this question was most relevant was during the height of the MSM's "Democratic Disunity" narrative.

by fogiv 2008-09-11 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

you think to much about how things will be covered. I don't doubt lots would be said and most of it positive to Barack.  It's his own supporters, not all by a long shot, who get offended when Hillary is shown respect for her accomplishments and for her assets.  It's sad.  

by anna shane 2008-09-11 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: My sources

Perhaps.  I haven't seen many who are offended when Hillary is shown respect for her accomplishments and for her assets, but I'll concede there there surely are some.  I for one recognize the asset that is HRC, and openly admit my respect for her accomplishments.  This in no way requires that you and I agree as to how, when, and where such assets should be utilized by the Obama campaign.

On the flip side of this coin are those who have so irrationally wound themselves into both Hillary's successes (and failures) that they frequently see slights where there are none.  In this regard, some of your more "feline" associates come to mind.  

Now, this is not to say there were no slights.  Undoubtably, there were during the oft heated primaries.  They went both ways, and arguments over who struck first or worst are academic now, are largely unproductive given our current cause.  Ultimately, this is what's most saddening.

by fogiv 2008-09-11 07:02PM | 0 recs
Re: No

That doesn't convince me.  She'd say it out loud, she wants him to win, and he'd say it, to show respect. but it doesn't matter, it's like over?  What this is about is attracting her supporters and since I'm one of them, I'd say I'm a credible source for what's attractive? And Biden's line is attractive to me. It's not news, it's just very refreshing to hear something like that coming from his campaign.    

by anna shane 2008-09-10 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Great!!!

You stay classy, San Diego.

hill4pres

by fogiv 2008-09-11 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Here we go again. Every time a dumbass like you brings this up, it reminds me why the primary pissed me off so much.

GET OVER IT.

(and please, spare me the "but I didn't bring it up, Biden did." Biden did not say she "would" make a better VP just that she "may have." He was complimenting her)

by BlueGAinDC 2008-09-10 01:03PM | 0 recs
Isn't this more of a comment?

Lame 'diary'; next time wait for the open thread.

by teknofyl 2008-09-10 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Go back to your bridge, troll.

by ArtVanDelay1774 2008-09-10 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

This is no troll.  Biden just really hurt Obama.  Badly.

by Drummond 2008-09-10 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

B.S. All he did was defend Hillary as "maybe" even a better choice than he was. Plus this will get little or no media attention.

Why do some of you keep hopeing, praying, and prophesising disaster when no disaster is forthcoming? Maybe you should just be honest enough to admit you are a McCain supporter and stop the concern trolling?

by Mystylplx 2008-09-10 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Check my history.  I've taken on the PUMAs around here, from the beginning.

Sorry, but this was just stupid.

by Drummond 2008-09-10 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

OK. In that case I have no idea why you would think that Biden "just hurt Obama badly."

I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. No one other than the PUMA's are even going to care about this. Most voters won't even hear about it. Those that do are just going to think that Biden is being gallant, which is true.

by Mystylplx 2008-09-10 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Well, maybe I was wrong.  I thought the Republicans would be all over it.

Guess I'll ditch the panic button.

by Drummond 2008-09-11 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

no he didn't, he helped Barack by showing that his vp isn't afraid to speak his mind.  He had to answer the question, and he chose to answer it honestly. It speaks well for Barack and for the ticket.  Enough hate, she's highly qualified, Sarah isn't, why not admit it?  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Hey, look the posters...this is honey to the little Clinton bitter bees....

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-10 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

and what's wrong with that?  What's wrong with giving our choice some respect, she's great and Sarah isn't, and why not admit it?  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

"Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me."

Wow!  Well, Biden just proved it by making the comment.  He may have just handed the election to McCain.  It's going to dominate the news cycle for the rest of the week at minimum.

How could he have been so stupid?!

by Drummond 2008-09-10 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

You're right! Obama should call McSame and congradulate him on winning the election. LOL Oh you McTrolls are HILARIOUS. You guys must really be running scared to be reduced to these same old tricks.

by venician 2008-09-10 02:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Check my history.  You'll find that I've been a solid Obama supporter from the beginning.  I've taken plenty of lumps from PUMA types around here.  

This was stupid.

by Drummond 2008-09-10 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

wrong, it was smart.  Those of us who supported her would have been plenty pissed if Joe had taken the 'compliment' and said, oh yes, I'm much better than Hillary, lucky for all of us I'm on the ticket and not here. I don't see why this is hard to understand, this is reaching out to us, this is what it looks like.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

It was stupid for that silly Obama supporting Hillary hating guy to create an issue that is going to cost Obama votes.

Team Obama needs to learn from others peoples mistakes not run out and make every mistake possible with a smile on their face...

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Talking about the one who asked the question Biden answered.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

it'll get him votes, and I'm voting anyway but it makes me happier about it.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

It undermines Obama.  Raises Biden.  But hurts the ticket.  

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

I don't get that at all. It's not at all my reaction.  Hillary's supporters already know, all l18 mil of them and saying it makes the ticket look refreshing.  We have him as our candidate, he won, but that does not make her less qualified, it only means he won.  and it's a left-handed strike at Sarah, who is not qualified.  

by anna shane 2008-09-10 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Biden's big mouth strikes again!!!!!!!!!

by karajan72 2008-09-10 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

BREAKING NEWS!  Joe Biden thinks that Hillary Clinton is a great person who is qualified for both the roles of President and Vice President, and he's humble and modest!  Lynch him!

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 01:29PM | 0 recs
Thank you; this whole thread is so

mountain = molehill

by Davidsfr 2008-09-10 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

I believe he is in Boston today at a fundraiser, did you happen to get the date he may or may not have said what you claim is being reported? Got a link? Not that Joe saying that would be a bad thing after all, but you do sure seem way to happy about a throw away line...

by zerosumgame 2008-09-10 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

It was on MSNBC this morning, and quite frankly it was classy and self-deprecating and the crowd loved it. It didn't hurt anyone and the media isn't going to start a firestorm over it. No matter how much the Hillis44 gang might love it.

This isn't even mountain = molehill.

This is a perfect case of the trolls getting bored under their bridges.

by JDF 2008-09-10 02:52PM | 0 recs
Do you really think McCain picks Palin if...

Barack had selected HRC for his ticket?  If so, I want some of what you are smoking.

by zoopnfunk 2008-09-10 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really think McCain picks Palin if...

Nope, I think probably Ridge, and it would probably still be tied, be about those crossover states in the midwest.

Like it is now.

And, don't smoke, bad for your health.

Next question?

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-10 01:52PM | 0 recs
Wrong, this race would be finished already

Wrong dead Wrong - Obama/Clinton against McCain/Ridge you'd be looking a EV of probably 357 to 181 right now.

Obama keeps where he's strong and Hillary brings FL, OH, IN and maybe even PA, she might be more popular there than Ridge.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-09-10 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: It wouldn't be Ridge

The lesson which should be gleaned this cycle from Biden(and he's my guy mind you) is that an everyday boring run-of-the-mill WHITE GUY be it Sanford, Heineman, Smith, Jones whatever is that the needle wouldn't have moved PERIOD.

This is a history making race and such the only way you have significant movement is from another excitement generating historical move - minority, women, gay/lesbian whatever.

And possibly your right that McCain would have as a completely last ditch effort still picked Palin, but it would have been like a snowballs chance in hell.  McCain saw his chance to pick Palin like a sledgehammer over the head.  He isn't bright enough to think that strategically or analytically to pit your woman against my woman.  Order of magnitude more likely that he'd have picked a black rethug.

And, don't kid yourself, there is movement of democratic/former dem. women moving to Palin.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-09-10 07:18PM | 0 recs
too bad if McCain had picked

Palin after Obama picked Hillary, then he would be seen not just by the media, but by actual voters as a copycat and an unabashed panderer, because someone else would have "picked a woman." Picking a woman would be seen as not so "maverick" being that it already would have been done. Plus, Hillary would outshine and wreck Palin like dynamite an old building. With regards to "moderate independent women" While that still woulda been a battle, Obama woulda had a better chance getting them with Clinton than with Biden. While Palin has her family, Hillary has stature and EXPERIENCE, Palin's achilles heels which may have won over the moderate independent women. Plus, Hillary's grasp of issues like the economy and health care and her overal stances most moderates agree with give her the edge.

Picking Sanford, yes the media woulda talked, but not buzzed like Palin, and woulda been boring.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: No

With the press calling Hillary a "shrill, nasty bitch" in it's most generous moments, she was still gaining primary wins and accruing huge numbers of voters - gaining momentum as the months went by. No matter what the media did to her, she ended up winning her voters - the ones the Democratic ticket now needs most. Her message overwhelmed what the shrill, nasty media dealt her, and she would have been the greatest asset on the ticket in the general election.

by 07rescue 2008-09-10 03:20PM | 0 recs
that is not all he said

or how he said it you goof;

September 10, 2008 5:17 PM

ABC News' Matthew Jaffe Reports: Barack Obama's vice-presidential nominee Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., Wednesday said that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, might have been a better pick for the position than him.

At a rally in Nashua, New Hampshire, a man in the audience told Biden how glad he was that Obama picked him over Hillary "not because she's a woman, but because look at the things she did in the past."

"Make no mistake about this," Biden responded. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let's get that straight. She's a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she's easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me. But she's first rate, I mean that sincerely, she's first rate, so let's get that straight."

by zerosumgame 2008-09-10 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: that is not all he said

Hey but your complete quote  nulifys the diarists intention, putting things in real context just makes it seem like Biden is being complimentary to Senator Clinton.

What the HELL is wrong with you????????

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-10 01:54PM | 0 recs
*slaps my forehead*

damn, sorry 'bout that ;P

<unnecessary snark tag here>

by zerosumgame 2008-09-10 04:24PM | 0 recs
OMG! He defended Hillary!

Stop the presses.

by grannyhelen 2008-09-10 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: bitter about V.P.!

 What a sad and pathetic diary.

by QTG 2008-09-10 02:05PM | 0 recs
What a joke

He was being Gracious and Kind.

"Make no mistake about this," Biden responded. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let's get that straight. She's a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she's easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me. But she's first rate, I mean that sincerely, she's first rate, so let's get that straight."

by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:12PM | 0 recs
The above statement
was in response to this:
a man in the audience told Biden how glad he was that Obama picked him over Hillary
by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: The above statement

Biden has class.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 02:21PM | 0 recs
Yes he does

both He and Obama have class.

by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: This is the best you're gonna get from dtaylor

Amen

When Biden says that about Hillary he means it.

When Hillary and Bill say that about Obama they mean it.

When Obama says it about Hillary not so much.

Hillary would have given Obama so much better treatment if she won than he has given her.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 02:36PM | 0 recs
This is

nonsense.

Obama and Hillary have treated each other just fine.

By the way, check this:

Clinton defends Obama while attacking GOP ticket
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/clin ton-defends-obama-while-attacking-gop-ti cket-2008-09-10.html

by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:41PM | 0 recs
Re: This is

Hillary would have given Obama the VP and real support in building his run for 2016.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: This is

Obama gave her a speech where she was expected to kiss his ass.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 02:45PM | 0 recs
And you know this

HOW?

It amazes me how so many people THINK they know what Hillary WOULD have said or done. NOBODY even knows what was said between them about the VP thing.

OBVIOUSLY Hillary Clinton has moved on and is SUPPORTING and Working Hard for Barack Obama and Joe Biden because she CARES about this country and We The People!

by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: And you know this

dtaylor quite literally thinks they are inside Hillary's head and can speak for her and what she would do in theoretical situations.  It's pretty creepy.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: And you know this

"dtaylor quite literally thinks they are inside Hillary's head and can speak for her and what she would do in theoretical situations.  It's pretty creepy."

You seem to quite literally think you know what is going inside my head...

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: This is the best you're gonna get from dtaylor

I'm beginning to think you are quite literally unstable.  You've got an incredibly unhealthy obsession with Hillary Clinton, so much so that you feel that you know what goes on in her head and you actually feel that you can speak on her behalf.

Here's a tip, although I'm sure you'll just ignore it:  You are not Hillary Clinton, you are not inside Hillary Clinton's head, and you cannot speak for Hillary Clinton.  YOU ARE NOT HILLARY CLINTON.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: This is the best you're gonna get from dtaylor

You are not dtaylor2, you are not inside dtaylor2's head, and you cannot speak for dtaylor2.  YOU ARE NOT dtaylor2.

=p

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 04:49PM | 0 recs
push it?

Come on.... geeez.

by kevin22262 2008-09-10 02:41PM | 0 recs
nonononono

if you're going to be a proper troll you need to do better than that!

Sheez, back when *I** was a kid, folks had to go to school to get their troll license.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

by chrisblask 2008-09-10 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: nonononono

HA, when I had to walk to the Little Troll Schoolhouse on the Prairie I had to walk uphill both ways, bare foot, in the snow. And we LIKED it that way!. You had it easy young whipper-snapper!

by zerosumgame 2008-09-10 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: nonononono

and you don't want to know about the onion on the belt...

by zerosumgame 2008-09-10 04:55PM | 0 recs
maybe biden should

STEP ASIDE ALREADY! he is awful did not in any way deserve the VP spot. However, if he knew this, why did he accept the job?

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 02:41PM | 0 recs
says who?

you? you, who can only badmouth the Clintons at every turn?

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 02:48PM | 0 recs
why should she have been subject to

"vetting," considering how long she's been in the public eye? She's already been vetted by many a Congressional investigations and the media for the last 15 years. Its an insult to her stature and he career to "vet" her.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh please

Don't waste your time.  You're talking to someone who is not capable of being reasoned with, and who will look for outrage at every possible moment even in situations where Biden is aggressively defending Hillary Clinton.  This person is the very definition of a dead-ender.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 03:09PM | 0 recs
she's BEEN vetted

you missed the point. Vetted on Whitewater, travel"gate", file"gate", Vince Foster so stop with your bullshit. Even if she had been "vetted" in your sense, dirt woulda been thrown anyway from the GOP. But at least she'd had stopped or neutered the Palin pick, and there woulda been no game changer for McCain except against him. We've seen how well the media shitting on Palin has worked: she is still loved and helping McCain big time. Hillary woulda not only been bulletproof like Palin, but no one questions if she is qualified to be President.

She does not need anybody else looking into her private life. Ken Starr already did that.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 03:15PM | 0 recs
there wouldn't be much to fawn over

and there'd have been virtually no buzz. They are fawning over McCain because of how "unconventional" he went and how a women is on a Republican ticket which again makes him a MAVERICK, whereas had he picked Romney or Huckabee, it would have been just another GOPer, little buzz, and little talk, and it wouldn't fit the maverick mold the media LOVES.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 07:00PM | 0 recs
nobody would have generated

the buzz that Sarah Palin did, not just in the media, but amongst the reich wing. She generated buzz because she's a woman, and the only two GOP female govenors are Jodi Rell and Lindy Lingle, both of whom would be unacceptable to the party. The woman part is the only reason McCain got buzz and poll numbers. other governors would not have helped Mccain at all in any way.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 07:21PM | 0 recs
no one woulda have cared

and McCain's poll numbers would not have jumped as high had Palin not been picked. Even if Palin had been picked with Hillary on the Obama ticket, there'd be less Palin buzz because McCain would be called a COPYCAT. McCain woulda looked dumb with that and Palin may have hurt him if Hillary had been on the Obama ticket, and yes amongst "moderate independent" women. Also, having Hillary attack Palin as an extreme Bush Republican woulda worked because no one coulda called it sexist, and the "moderate independent" women would come to Obama/Clinton

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh please

So by your definition of the VP position Palin is perfect for the job?

by 2maddogs 2008-09-10 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: maybe biden should

Yeah Biden is a total tool for defending Hillary Clinton against a rude question that was attacking her judgment and character.  We should destroy him for having the nerve to accept the VP nomination.

Face it... you would be outraged right now if he HADN'T said what he did.  If he had completely ignored the question, Obama and Biden are bad.  If he had deflected the question, Obama and Biden are bad.  When they say anything or nothing at all, Obama and Biden are bad.  Got it.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-10 02:50PM | 0 recs
Biden's not doing his job

His job is to be the attack-dog. It seems McCain has a pitbull and Obama has an aging lab, occasional sound and fury with no bite. Come on, what is this shit about:

"What really disappoints me is the very tactics used against him, they're trying to use against Barack Obama now," Biden said. "It's literally saddening. I didn't expect it, I didn't expect it. But I guess I should learn to expect everything."

I mean what does he mean. His president is getting maligned in the nastiest possible terms by a man who has no sense of honor or decency and is a complete disgrace and the best he can do is this?? Is John McCain such a friend that he cannot call him out as disgraceful. He is worse than Edwards in 2004. If we lose this one it is because he is unwilling to do any heavy lifting or step up on the attack.

by tarheel74 2008-09-10 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: I think it's an attempt

It's working beautifully. It takes time. Have patience.

by Mystylplx 2008-09-10 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: I think it's an attempt

hate to break this but for someone who has been following US elections since the late 80s...Americans don't get subtlety. Case in point McCain's rise in the polls after running what is really a dishonorable and disgusting campaign.

by tarheel74 2008-09-10 05:43PM | 0 recs
Re: I know

what we really need to do is do away with niceties and subtleties. Start the negatives from the beginning, dehumanize the Republicans to such an extent that they become caricatures. But right now we are way behind the curve. One of Obama's colossal mistakes was he thought that McCain was going to run an issue based campaign, so he decided to control the message, close all 527s, take the high road and now 7 weeks before the election he is still trying to find a coherent line of attack while the Republicans have dehumanized him to this scary black foul mouthed guy who will corrupt your children and ravish your women (the education and wolves ad). Now he has no choice but to call McCain for what he is, devoid of issues, lacking credibility, lacking honor, clueless and senile. Blunt and negative, barrage of ads which they can keep trying to defend. Say the same things in person during the debates and get Joe Biden to step up and make sharper attacks. I wish it wasn't this way but this is how McCain campaign wants it and this is what we have because Obama did not respond forcefully in the first few weeks. Reminds me of 2004.

by tarheel74 2008-09-10 06:43PM | 0 recs
my friends,

did you really expect McCain to run an honorable campaign against Obama? I would bet the Obama guys thought that too and still think it

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 07:31PM | 0 recs
Bill Clinton DONE IT TOO!!!

except that Hillary and John McCain are good friends, and in fact, when Hillary and John McCain were on Meet the Press together side by side, an exchange went like

"MR. RUSSERT: Senator McCain, a serious question:  Do you think the lady to your right would make a good president?

SEN. CLINTON: Oh, we can't hear you, Tim.  We can't hear you.

SEN. McCAIN: Yeah, you're breaking up.  I am sure that Senator Clinton would make a good president.  I happen to be a Republican and would support, obviously, a Republican nominee, but I have no doubt that Senator Clinton would make a good president."

And plus, its not like Hillary wouldn't hit back just as Obama doesn't. She and Bill would know he probably would resort to negativity, thing is the only kind of negativity McCain could hit the Clintons with would be the same kind of stuff Bob Dole hit Bill with, and it wasn't terribly effective, and I doubt Bill took it personally. Also, Hillary is not as easy a target is as Barack Obama, as hard to believe that is. And YES that is because of race and name, Wright, religion rumor, etc.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 08:00PM | 0 recs
she's been framed as that for 15 years

and she was beating McCain in polls all across the country for much of the latter part of the primary season. She was beating McCain in an electoral landslide outside the margin of error in most of her states, in states Democrats have won in recent times but have lost in the last 2 elections. Obama's map is nearly the same on that date as it is now, and similiar to Gore/Kerry.

PEOPLE KNOW HER, and you act like she's some stranger yet to be discovered. She went up pretty well against Obama, who won the nomination because he was able to rally his own people around him because of the color of his skin, who make up over 35% of the Democratic party. That part of the party also ignored how Wright/color and name would affect him come general election because many chose to vote their emotions. The whites that did vote for him were either young college kids, or entralled suburban PCers who woulda voted Democrat either way. While Obama would be having an easier time in the GE if he were white, lets not kid ourselves: he would not have gotten the nomination if he were white. He woulda been either John Edwards, or not even a senator because he wouldn't have gotten that prime speaking spot at the DNC had he been white.

You're gonna tell me, that Hillary wouldn't be stronger against McCain? Obama is losing or close in this kind of political atmosphere because of his color/name/alleged religion, all of which are FAR FAR worse in voter's eyes than anything in the Clinton closet. Voters expect scandal from politicians, but not the stuff Obama has, plus Wright, who will reappear soon most likely. Hillary would be attacking back, whereas Obama has decided to re-enact John Kerry 2004. So OF COURSE she'd be doing better right now. She has the issues Americans are concerned about, health care, the economy, security in a lock.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 08:56PM | 0 recs
and issues aren't big this years

because Obama never talks issues, he talks "change" in the most unspecific way, which is why its not about issues. Hillary talks health care, jobs, and the economy, something it took Obama forever to emphasize, as he still is all about "change." Hillary never talked about "change" in the way Obama did, she talked health care, the economy, and jobs. She would never have let it get about character because she would not be detract from them because she wouldn't open herself up to it by being as nebulous as Obama. When Obama lets people say "what change," they effectively steal the debate.

Hillary is also white, does not have the middle name "Hussein" which is that of a former Iraqi President the US did not like very much, and was never rumored the be a Muslim, the religion of Osama Bin Laden. Considering that that is why Obama is so close in a year with a hated President, it should be logic Hillary would be doing better because that innuendo would never be used against her. But of course, you have no logic.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 09:40PM | 0 recs
first off,

with your comment about unfavorables, favorable/unfavorable does not decide elections, just ask Chuck Robb, and second, her numbers were not high 40's in unfavorable, they were low 40's, and her favorables were comfortably in the 50s. read the numbers.

Oh yea, because running against Obama isn't a smear campaign, except that nearly 15% of voters believe he is a Muslim, possibly a lot more, the GOP is very effectively using race against very successfully even doing it out in the open unabashedly, calling him "uppity" in public. People get turned off by his middle name, and many don't think he's an American or salute the flag and dont' forget Jeremiah Wright. If that comes back, Obama's in trouble. Obama's also black, which has an effect we cannot even measure till election day. No smear or attack that could be thrown at Hillary could be anywhere NEAR as bad as those things I just reminded you about Barack Obama. The worst part about the Obama ones is they're not all done as much in the open, which makes it much worse because people think them and you cannot gauge.

Hillary also attacks back, and don't give this shit it wouldn't work, just because you wouldn't want it to. Her husband was very effective, and he'd craft the comeback and make the ads with her and the consultants, as Clintons run great ads, Obama runs shit.

Hillary would have mobilized women voters, Latinos who are not energized by Obama but like him better than McCain, and get the elusive white working class out. Had she been coronated, the blacks would be there in full force. If she had won it mid season, they'd fall back into line and Obama woulda endorsed her and got them out.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 10:19PM | 0 recs
I live in the south

I know code when I see it. I was really angry when Jim Clyburn accused Bill Clinton of racism. That was nonsense. The worst ad that the Kos-kids could rail against was the 3AM ad which they perceived very incorrectly that Obama was made darker. I was a Hillary supporter that just made me enraged. I warned people not to be the boy who cries wolf because when the republicans do it they will do it eve worse and with impunity and all their outrage will fall on deaf ears.

The primaries are over. I am an Obama/Democratic supporter but I still don't go to Kos. And much to my chagrin I feel vindicated. You want racial subtext, code look at the last two ads or even the web-ad. It is cry out to the suburban white vote in the south, "look at the uppity _ y'all, he's tryin' to corrupt our kids", and "don't forget our women y'all the _ is showin' them disrespect". This is racism, coded and subtle but racism. And we cannot even counter their dog-whistle because we have cried wolf a few too many times.

by tarheel74 2008-09-10 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: UPDATE:

I read the full quote...good for Biden.  He's not going to let anyone take a gratuitous swipe at Hillary Clinton, and he made it clear she deserves respect.

You make it sound like he endorsed her for VP though.  What he actually said was she's just as worthy and honorable a VP choice as anyone else, including himself.

That's a very different message from the one your diary claims.  Can't someone even defend Hillary Clinton anymore without her own supporters warping the message?

by mtnspirit 2008-09-10 03:14PM | 0 recs
he could have very easily defended her

without saying someone else would be better at the important job he is seeking.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 03:40PM | 0 recs
Re: he could have very easily defended her

Which he did.

by Mystylplx 2008-09-10 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: he could have very easily defended her

"would be", "might be", who cares, their just words!

Heck, you can take my words are rearrange them and replace them and it's still what I meant to say, right?

Freeper.

Fail.

by chrisblask 2008-09-10 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: UPDATE: Biden states Hillary

I'm as strong a supporter of Hillary as anybody, and I thought she should have been (a) our nominee for president, or, if not that, then (b) our nominee for vice-president.  Having said that though, I think Biden was just giving a very gracious reply to an attack on Hillary, and I don't think this should be twisted to mean anything else.

by markjay 2008-09-10 04:14PM | 0 recs
but it WILL be twisted to mean

that "Obama's running mate himself admits he is not the most qualified to be President or even Vice President," and that "Obama's judgment is bad that he picked not the most qualified person." This quote may actually make many Hillary voters abandon Obama, because its Biden actually saying Hillary should have been on the ticket.

This line was not some fucking mere comeback to an insult. There were many other ways he coulda done that besides undercutting himself and the nominee, Obama. it hurts pretty bad when ur own VP says that your rival shoulda been the pick in terms.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: but it WILL be twisted to mean

Sometimes reality exists even when you close your eyes and plug your ears and stomp your feet.

Hillary was a stronger choice because she brings more voters.  In that sense she is a stronger choice.

In terms of governance I think Biden is a very strong choice but he doesn't bring the political support Hillary does or the ear of Bill that Hillary does.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 04:23PM | 0 recs
I was merely stating how the GOP

will twist the line. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America." Kind of does hit Obama's judgement of picking him in ads, right? Plus, why would he even say that she woulda been a better pick if he didn't actually think it? There are other ways to stand up for Hillary.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: I was merely stating how the GOP

She was a better pick.

Everyone from Biden to Nader to Hillings has said so.

Accept it move on.

Obama made a MISTAKE.

He made a big deal about having a 3 am phone call to Biden setting the stage for McCain to steal all the oxygen in the race with Palin.

Obama made a stupid MISTAKE

Biden is under no obligation to lie for OBama.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 04:32PM | 0 recs
Its kind of hard to &quot;accept&quot; that

we may have another 4-8 years of Republican rule minimum, which makes them look good in the history books, and fucks our country and party over. Especially the manner in which this botched unlosable election could be lost. We nominated a guy with no experience who has the flaws that Obama has, and then he not only picks the wrong VP, but in turn allows the GOP to make gains with women which could be sustained for years to come, and Obama's pick for VP even admits he may not have been the right choice, and is less qualified than Hillary. This is not some ordinary mistake, it was a potentially mortal death blow to our party, maybe our country, and our reputation around the world will never recover if Obama loses. We will never get back our clout.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Its kind of hard to &quot;accept&quot; that

If the GOP grasp the minority advancement and women advancement theme it could be a multi generational advantage for them.

But thats a good thing =)

Winning your issues means the other guy does the same thing as you.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-10 06:36PM | 0 recs
Re: I was merely stating how the GOP

The GOP won't touch it. This whole thing is silly.

by Mystylplx 2008-09-10 04:48PM | 0 recs
Biden states Hillary would be better V.P.!

Are Democrats losing it (mentally)? Let me say something, take a step back, take a deep breath and jump back into the pool. Relax, if we truly have learned our lessons from the last 50 years we would NOT PANIC and win this election.

by RJEvans 2008-09-10 04:36PM | 0 recs
here's what i think of the implication here...

by canadian gal 2008-09-10 05:17PM | 0 recs
I can't stop giggling

but maybe it's the kind of thing only math geeks get...

by chrisblask 2008-09-10 06:09PM | 0 recs
Biden was paying her a compliment

But if he keeps getting asked this whereever he goes, then THAT becomes the story (again) - so instead of talking about the issues - it becomes about "Why didn't Obama pick Hillary" wherever Biden goes..

by nikkid 2008-09-10 06:24PM | 0 recs
Label your snark, people!

Biden is a true gentleman and he loves women. Hearing this I have even more respect for what a decent guy he is.

by Jeter 2008-09-10 07:09PM | 0 recs
Wow
Stories are all over the net on this one, and I expect they will be all over the news networks tomorrow, and I am dying to see what Hillary's reaction will be.
It is hard to say how the McCain camp is going to spin this one, and at first I was worried, but I have a feeling that whatever they say it will bring Hillary more into the Obama camp.
Is this a pitch by Biden to say that Hillary will have a high place in the an Obama administration?
Somebody had better give Hillary a call now.
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 08:33PM | 0 recs
How the McCain camp will spin this?

here is how:

Spokesman Ben Porritt offered this response from the McCain camp: "Barack Obama's most important decision of this election, and Biden -- the candidate he selects -- suggests, himself, that he wasn't the right man for the job, and that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice. Biden certainly has a credible viewpoint on this."
Biden has done a lot of work for the McCain campaign.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 08:58PM | 0 recs
Ben Who?
I don't think this guy has much say in the McCain camp. in any case the McCain camp is going to look stupid trying to put words in Biden's mouth.
The clip will show that Biden was talking about how much he respects Hillary, not that he thinks Obama made a bad pick.
Biden's answer was the best that he could possibly have given to the accusation that he was a better pick than Hillary.
Hillary and Hillary supporters should be impressed, and I expect we will get clarity from Obama and Hillary about Obama's pick of Biden, who has just made a very unifying statement. Hillary is a very qualified woman.
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 09:13PM | 0 recs
they could just run an ad

asking "Did Barack Obama pick the person most qualified to be Vice President?" with him saying what he said and say at the end "Even Joe Biden doesn't believe he's the most qualified to be Vice President." and then talk up how he passed up Hillary Clinton.

Biden did not have to say "...more qualified than I am" and "...better pick than me" and YES I put and elipsis before the words because the quote I gave is all the media and McCain are gonna play anyway.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 09:33PM | 0 recs
I don't see that message working for the
McCain camp.
It would be confusing, seeing Biden saying. "it might have been a better pick than me."
Who is the "it" that Biden is talking about?
They would have to put the full quote which is, "She's a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she's easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me."
Putting that quote on the air is only going to make Hillary supporters feel better about Biden, and it shows that Biden is truly selfless, which is a trait that is rarely associated with politicians. Biden's words can only be used against him if there is a perceived fight between Obama and Clinton, which will be unlikely because Clinton and Obama will be in NYC together tomorrow.
I have no doubt that the McCain camp will try to spin the quote in their favor, but I can't see it working in their favor, unless there actually is a fight between the Clintons and the Obamas.
Considering that the question was asked in the late hours of September 10th, I have a feeling that it might have been a plant used to bring more Hillary supporters into the fold.
Aren't most questions at town halls plants?
And why did Biden use "it" instead of "she"?
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 10:21PM | 0 recs
they can just say

"Why did Barack Obama even choose Joe Biden to be his running mate?" and then say "His own VP choice Joe Biden says Hillary Clinton is 'more qualified' than he is" and it would be out of context, but watch the GOP and they'll do it. They don't have to "put the full quote" of shit, they do what they want. With the better pick, it wouldn't be hard to say "Obama's running mate even believes Hillary Clinton would have been 'a better pick' than he was." You've seen the GOP take lines out of context, and they'll do it again.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-10 10:25PM | 0 recs
That message wont work

without Biden's actual quote, especially if there is an obvious show of Obama-Clinton unity (and Hillary thanking Biden) on 9/11.

by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 10:32PM | 0 recs
Please move on

This is really silly. I think that Joe Biden is one of the more decent politicians I have ever seen. I think that he was being very gracious and real in his comments about Clinton, and I would expect nothing less from him.

The media will do what the media does with Bidens straight forwardness, but I have begun to notice a decided turn by the media toward McCain. Look at the latest bullshit they have been obsessing over for two days. What is interesting is that McCain is starting to look very bad. I have loved the clips of McCain using the lipstick/pig thing over and over in reference to Clinton. Kind of makes him look like a hypocrite, doesn't it?

Hillary Clinton as VP is a non-issue. I thought that Clinton took herself out of the running for VP early on. I think she offered her services to Obama, but only wanted the final vetting if she were to be the candidate. That was the deal and Obama declined. We can hash this out forever and not get anywhere and in fact, he was probably right, not to box himself in at the time.

Whatever the reasons, it is done and over with. I wish that Obama would have figured out a way to let us know earlier than the day before the convention that Clinton was never in contention, as it was pretty tough for me (and others) to come to grips with the possible end of Clinton's chances to be President. I agree with Biden, but I do understand why it is not reality.

All I know, is that Obama and Biden are infinately better than McCain and Palin.

Now leave me alone, I am trying to watch Man vs Wild. He is in my neighborhood tonight, the South Dakota Black Hills, prairie and the Badlands. Pretty cool, but no eating any bugs yet.

by Hollede 2008-09-10 09:05PM | 0 recs
I wouldn't worry about the media
The media, including FOX News, will show the clip of Biden's praise in its entirety, and the only way that the McCain can twist it is if they substitute words, which will be well recorded on the news.
Hillary will not be able to stay silent in the face of such praise, and I am dying to hear what she has to say.
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 09:17PM | 0 recs
This will also force Obama
to answer the question that we have all been dying to know; why did he pick Biden over Clinton?
We know why he picked Biden, but we don't know why he didn't pick Hillary.
Biden may have offered Obama a face saving means of answering that question.
He thought both of friends (Biden and Hillary) were great, but chose Biden because Biden is the most selfless politician of them all (and also one of the poorest).
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 09:24PM | 0 recs
By poor

I meant least wealthy

by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: This will also force Obama

Am I imagining things, or did I hear that Obama told Boxer that he just did not know what to do with Bill? I actually thought that was lame, but he is the candidate.

by Hollede 2008-09-10 10:31PM | 0 recs
You are imagining thinks

Because you never heard that. That was a rumor that was never substantiated.

by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-10 10:38PM | 0 recs
Re: You are imagining thinks

If it was a rumor than I am not hallucinating, (thank goodness ;~) but I get that it might be a rumor. Teach me to believe things I hear on the news (I usually know better).

by Hollede 2008-09-10 10:55PM | 0 recs
The rumor had some merit
As it was supposedly leaked by someone that actually overheard a conversation about Obama "not knowing what to do about Bill".
But the truth is, we don't know why Obama didn't choose Hillary, only that Hillary asked not to be vetted unless she was to be the VP nominee.
There is definitely a lot more to the story than we ever heard, but unfortunately the details will probably not come out until after the election (if ever).
However, Obama will most likely not win if Hillary doesn't campaign for him, but so far she is doing a good job of campaigning for him.
Another thing to remember is that both campaigns (Obama and McCain) agreed not to air ads against the other tomorrow.
by CommentsOfReason 2008-09-11 12:04AM | 0 recs

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