Hillary and her Iraq vote

Yes, Hillary voted for the war (as Obama and his supporters describe her vote), but she was dooped into it like almost all of the world was.  American support, at the time, was greater than 80%!  Bush, and his cronies, fooled everyone with their lies.  Obama supporters forget a statement he made reported by ABC News Jonathan Greenberger on May 17, 2007 (and repeated numerous times):

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/05/obama_slams_cli.html

""I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq," Obama said at the time, "although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence."

But this morning, Obama attacked Clinton head-on for her initial support of the war, and even accused her of trying to "revise history" on the vote."

Later in the article:

"In fact, Obama's Senate voting record on Iraq is nearly identical to Clinton's.  Over the two years Obama has been in the Senate, the only Iraq-related vote on which they differed was the confirmation earlier this year of General George Casey to be Chief of Staff of the Army, which Obama voted for and Clinton voted against. Just last week, in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, Obama conceded that his position on the war is not the "polar opposite" of Clinton's."

Tags: Barrack, clinton, Democrat, Election 2008, Hillary, Iraq War, obama, Presidential, Primary (all tags)

Comments

24 Comments

Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

When radical jihadists are waging war on America and  Americans we need a Commander in Chief who is able to use the threat of military action to ensure that rogue nations do not get weapons of mass destruction. By her vote and her speech on the senate floor, Hillary showed that she understood the president needed to have the real threat of war behind him as he commanded nuclear inspections. She understands the office of the presidency, and the role of Commander in Chief.

We'd battled Saddam Hussein twice in previous administrations and if he was redeveloping his nuclear and or chemical weaponry we needed to know so.

We need a Commander in Chief who understands how to command and use the most powerful military in the world to achieve diplomatic solutions that keep us safe from nuclear attack. And, frankly, we need one who can command the military in a time of war. Obama has said he would negotiate with Ahmadinejad and bomb Pakistan -- he isn't reasoned or reflective when asked military questions.

Hillary shows us everyday that she is the one to be trusted to be Commander in Chief. Go Hillary.

by seattlegonz 2008-02-16 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

Wow!  You have certainly bought into the Republican fear mongering.  

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-16 11:59AM | 0 recs
Jesus Christ

So on one hand it's OK to saber rattle against the jihadists when your name is Hillary. Even more so when her "leadership" helped start a war that has fundamentally weakened our ability to project power in other more critical regions. But when Obama makes it clear that he will use military power to confront jihadists when the Pakistanis refuse to do so, it is a lack of reasoning/judgment?

Mind boggling.

by highgrade 2008-02-16 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

So you're saying Hillary is stupid. I don't buy it. Whatever else you say about her, she ain't stupid. As the administration tried to build its case to invade Iraq, hundreds of thousands of us took to the streets to say no. It was apparent from the "evidence" the administration was citing that there was no justification for invading Iraq.

Twenty five U.S. Senators had the courage to vote against the war. At the time Obama, who was running for Senate also had the courage to oppose thye war. But Hillary had her eye on running for president. She voted to invade Iraq because she thought it would make her look tough. She defended the war for years, until public opinion turned against it and then she began to claim she had been fooled.

But what Hillary didn't count on, was that she would face a real challenger in the prmary who had the courage to oppose the war. Her cynical ploy has backfired. That is THE story of this election.
   

by fugazi 2008-02-16 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

You are wrong about Obama's courage.


Mr.Barack Obama has been lionized by many ignorant bloggers as a very courageous and principled individual who stood against the tide of Iraq war and protested in October 2002.

A Closer scrutiny of facts as they existed in 2002 does not bear this out.

In the 107th congress there were 20 house members from Illinois. There were 11 Democrats and 9 Republicans. The roll call shows 8 of the democrats voted against the Iraq war resolution along with senator Durbin. That is a ratio of 3 to 1. I believe that Mr Obama protested against the war because he needed the support of Illinois democratic congressional delegation for his senate run.                        

link for the for 107th congress:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/107th_Unite d_States_Congress

Here is the link for those who voted against resolution:

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalle adership/a/IraqNayVote.htm

 

by indydem99 2008-02-16 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

Here is more proof:Illinois congressman and senator that voted aginst Iraq war resolution:


Jerry Costello, Danny Davis, Lane Evans, Luis Gutierrez, Jesse Jackson, Jr., Bobby Rush, Jan Schakowsky, Bill Lipinski, Sen Dick Durbin

Bingo 9 out of 12 a ratio of 3:1

Here is another quote from your mealy mouth senator:


"It's not clear to me what differences we've had since I've been in the Senate," Obama told the New Yorker magazine. "I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. . . . We were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test."

by indydem99 2008-02-16 12:01PM | 0 recs
By HRC's 'logic', Lieberman didn't vote forthe war

either. Neither did the other loony warmonger John McCain.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-02-16 12:16PM | 0 recs
Sorry

but I wouldn't say she was "duped" into it. If she had bothered to read the NIE she would have known that the strength of the evidence for WMD's and 'weapons programs' wasn't near as strong as the bushies were making it out to be.

The plain fact is she voted her cowardice over her conscience. In an environment where anyone voting against it was being called a traitor or terrorist sympathizer she voted her career over her country. She voted politics over pragmatism.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry


Mr.Barack Obama has been lionized by many ignorant bloggers as a very courageous and principled individual who stood against the tide of Iraq war and protested in October 2002.

A Closer scrutiny of facts as they existed in 2002 does not bear this out.

In the 107th congress there were 20 house members from Illinois. There were 11 Democrats and 9 Republicans. The roll call shows 8 of the democrats voted against the Iraq war resolution along with senator Durbin. That is a ratio of 3 to 1. I believe that Mr Obama protested against the war because he needed the support of Illinois democratic congressional delegation for his senate run.                        

link for the for 107th congress:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/107th_Unite d_States_Congress

Here is the link for those who voted against resolution:

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalle adership/a/IraqNayVote.htm

 

by indydem99 2008-02-16 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

Obama's the best one to get us out, but more important than that we need a President who won't make the same or similar mistakes again. Hillary can't even admit her vote for the war was a mistake, so obviously she hasn't learned anything from her mistake.

This goes to the difference between 'experience' and 'judgement'. Experience without judgemet is like education without learning--sort of pointless. Hillary Clinton's claims to experience are dubious, but any claims she has to having sound judgement are waaaaayyy to easy to dispell.

Exhibit A. She still doesn't understand her Iraq war vote was a mistake. Nuff said.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 12:25PM | 0 recs
Playing a chess game

To understand a complex issue, one really need to study it in every angles to be able to fathom the complexity of the problem and construct a proper cause of action.   It's like playing chess.  One need to think ahead in anticipation of the countermove by the opponent.

The resolution was intended to use the treat of force to squeeze Saddam to spit out any WMD that he had.  It approves the US President to use force against Iraq IF and only IF UN security approve the use of force.

- It was a fact that Saddam had used chemical weapon against Kurd. - It was a fact that we were afraid that Saddam might plan to deploy his chemical weapon to get the world attention from Osama back to him. - It was a fact that we wanted to know if Saddam had WMD or not, and prevent him from using them.
Given those facts, it is a wrong decision to vote against the resolution.  It is wrong not to have the security of American people at heart, while in the same time play the chess game to corner Saddam.

Bush violated the resolution and invaded Iraq without the UN security backing, without waiting for the UN inspection to finish their report.  He must be laughing his head off in the oval office now that Clinton is taking the heat from everyone for his blunder.  

It was a fact that the majority for the world didn't want to go war.  I lived in the UK, and the day before the dateline that Bush would invade Iraq, there was a biggest rally on the street of London to protest the war.  We protested Blair not to go to war.  There was a protest in France and many other countries.

I don't remember there was a war protest rally in the US somewhere?  Was there a rally in Washinton?  Search your soul and you tell me.  

To vote against the resolution was wrong, we need to make sure that Saddam doesn't have the ability to attack us while we go after Bin Laden.  Otherwise the US need to mend 2 front line battles.

To invade Iraq was wrong, because the US ends up exactly where it shouldn't be, having 2 front lint battles.

Clinton got it right on both decision points.  She fulfilled her duty as a senator to protect American security.  

Obama got 1 right, 1 wrong.  He didn't understand the chess game to squeeze Saddam.

Bush got it all wrong.  And anti-Hillary is holding Bush's mistake against Clinton.  Good judgement comes with experience and fair mind.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-16 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing a chess game

As I recall there were some small protests in the U.S., but the majority of Americans were in favor of the war.

And to use your chess game metaphor, Bush had made it clear to anyone who was paying attention that he was determined to invade Iraq. Members of his own party had to put lots of pressure on him to even pretend to take a diplomatic approach.

Hillary got it wrong. Period. Results count and all the rationalizations in the world don't change that. To vote against the resolution was the right thing to do. It's exactly that reason that we have two front battle lines. There was absolutely no reason to even be messing with Iraq at that time. Inspectors or no inspectors, it was a completely pointless exercise in stupidity.

Even if Hussien had had some old chemical and biological weapons there was zero reason to believe he'd threaten us with them, and every reason to believe he would not do so. (Whatever else he was he wasn't suicidal.)

So in the chess game Hillary made a number of very bad moves which have cost this country dearly. Her experience obviously doesn't give her the judgement to play the game well.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing a chess game

As I recalled the worry about Iraq was that Saddam might do something because he wants to get the spotlight back to him.  He wanted to be the big bad boy in the world.  with 20/20 vision that we now have, we know that fear is groundless.  However, back at that time. Everything is murky.  So you will have to go with the best due diligence study you could have.  

You have a point that there was low possibility that Saddam would threaten US.  But I believed that at the time, Clinton made the best decision she could with the best interest of US at heart.  And I believed she was honest about her stand.  In contrary to her opponent, I don't get a feeling that he is very honest about his position as his records shows he has opposite position of the issue as time change.

I found it a little bit odd that many people are so willing to put the blame on Hillary as the sole responsibility for the war.  She voted for the resolution, Yes.  Did she verbally ordered the troop to invade Iraq, No.  And as I recalled that many senators who apposed the war also voted for the resolution in the same line of thinking as her.  

As you said the majority of American favor war, and now the majority of American blame Clinton for war, the only deduction I can find is people find it easier to blame someone else than to blame themselves.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-16 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing a chess game

Clinton made a terrible decision. To continue the chess game anaolgy she brought her queeen out early, failed to castle, and failed to controll the center of the board.

She showed she has no judgement. The fact that her judgement is no worse than the majority of Americans just means she is no more qualified to be President than the majority of Americans.

I'm more qualified to be President than she is. I, knew what her vote meant at the time. Every intelligent human being on the face of the planet knew what that vote meant.

She deserves her share of the blame for this stupid war. It isn't entirely her fault, but she deserves a good fair share of the fault. She voted for it. It was a stupid vote. It was an inexcusable vote. It was a cowardly vote.

This is Hillary Clinton's "leadership."

by Mystylplx 2008-02-17 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

That's just not true!  She said I "wouldn't have voted that way" if she knew everything she knows now.

by Mike999 2008-02-16 03:25PM | 0 recs
LOL!

Then she should have read the NIE, because if she had then would have known then everything she knows now.

But I suspect you were kidding anyway.... ;)

by Mystylplx 2008-02-17 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

So what you're saying is her vote was political and not practical? I tend to agree. That doesn't make it any better.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

How do you explain the votes of the twenty-seven Democrats and one Republican who voted against the AUMF?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-16 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

Please get your facts straight!  There were 21 Democrats who voted against it, one Republican, and one Democrat.  Did you happen to vote for Kerry?  FYI-He voted for it! (and so did Lieberman)

by Mike999 2008-02-16 04:59PM | 0 recs
by Mike999 2008-02-16 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

That's right, how do you explain them?  The honour roll:

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-16 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

Yeah, them.  I know who voted for it, believe me.  And there is no excuse for your prevarications on the subject.  Of all the revisionist nonsense, the hypocritical shadings of truth of Hillary's campaign and the bloviating of her supporters the AUMF vote takes the cake.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  She clearly voted Yea in a calculated ploy for domestic political considerations to protect her potential candidacy from the possibility of opposing a brief, successful campaign like that in 1991.  She never even read the NIE, she opposed the Levin amendment and her subsequent wriggling and cover story is typical of the kind of falsehoods we can expect from her candidacy.

But it is really popular with jingoistic nitwits who also supported Bush back then, in a ludicrous and patent idiocy, isn't it?  You all have blood on your hands.  And now you want to rewrite history?  Go stand in the corner.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-16 07:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

90% of you were for the war.  You should read the overseas press once in a blue moon.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-16 01:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary and her Iraq vote

http://www.accuracy.org/newsrelease.php? articleId=1641

apparently, hillary can't remember the details of her own co-presidency's bombing campaign against iraq.

there were plenty of people opposed to going to war with iraq they were/are left leaning progressives.

by citizendave 2008-02-17 07:09AM | 0 recs

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