Vatican reaction to the election

I obtained a login just to create this post.  I'm curious what you all make of this...I have an acquaintance who works at Santa Clara University, one of the biggish Catholic schools here on the West Coast.  He is a very reliable guy.  He said to me last week that the president of the university reported being at the Vatican when Bush's re-election was announced.  He said virtually everybody there was devastated.  My first reaction (as usual) was to be a smart-ass.  I said, "I have only two words to say:  Faithful Citizenship." Since then, however, the more I have thought about this the more puzzled I have been.  Any insights?

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Maybe they are really Christians
unlike the Red state hypocrites.
by Paul Goodman 2004-11-15 03:34PM | 0 recs
i've heard rumors from a few places that the pope believes that GWB might be satan himself. those were just rumors and i haven't seen any evidence to substantiate that claim.
by ypsilanti 2004-11-15 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: satan?
Yep, said after a meeting with Bush he wondered if he had just met the Anti-Christ.  I've read this story before also but cannot verify.    

I'm not at all surprised to hear the Vatican is devastated; the Pope was and still is adamantly opposed to the Iraq war.  The Church is also against the death penalty.

They probably would have liked to have "one of their own" in the White House, too.  If you remember, some Catholic Bushie Bishops tried to use the abortion issue against Kerry, but the church would have none of it and publicly announced they would not even consider excommunication.  

by bellarose 2004-11-15 04:15PM | 0 recs
If the Vatican Is So Devastated By The Outcome
then why in hell didn't the Pope tell the bishops over here to lay off on the abortion issue for the duration of the campaign?  It might have had some effect on the election, tipping enough extra Catholic voters to Kerry to give him some key states(Iowa, Ohio, New Mexico maybe).  So now the Church, like all the rest of us, will have to live with the results.  
by LaughingHistorian 2004-11-15 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: If the Vatican Is So Devastated By The Outcome
Great question!  The Pope could have/should have been very vocal in denouncing the Bush administration for Abu Garab as well.  

This is just an assumption on my part but I think the Pope my have just reaped his "reward" for appointing so many anti-abortion Bishops and Cardinals. Ironically, abortion is probably the only major issue he and Bush agree on.  

by bellarose 2004-11-15 05:11PM | 0 recs
I think there is a lot of misleading press regarding what the Vatican does/does not think. But IIRC the pope was very against the war.
by quoi 2004-11-15 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: war=bad
What's IIRC?
by bellarose 2004-11-15 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: war=bad
If I recall correctly. Though IIRC has many meanings.
by quoi 2004-11-15 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: war=bad
Thank you!
by bellarose 2004-11-16 04:26AM | 0 recs
Vatican people are Europeans
What can you expect?  They have unfiltered news of the state of the country, Iraq issue and of the Bush administration.

They are already used to secular Europe.  They dont have politicians who divide the country by using gay marriage and abortion.

by jasmine 2004-11-15 06:42PM | 0 recs
Isn't Pope John Paul from Poland?
maybe he knows a wannabe evil dictator when he sees one...
by ultraworld 2004-11-15 07:15PM | 0 recs
Vatican reaction to the election
I'm sorry.  Since it was my first post, I didn't do a good job of laying out what was puzzling me about this situation.  As some of you may have recognized, "Faithful Citizenship" was the name of a series of brochures given out by the church prior to the election.  In them, the faithful were told, point blank, that they were putting their mortal souls in danger by voting for any politician who championed abortion rights.

Make no mistake--many bishops virtually ordered their congregates to vote for Bush. does this square with the Vatican being upset by Bush's election?  Were they hoping the non-Catholics would vote him out?

by maxline 2004-11-15 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Vatican reaction to the election
Hmm.  I haven't heard of this before.  These brochures were actually handed out in Catholic Churches??

I wonder if we could get one.  I'd like to see one for myself.

by bellarose 2004-11-16 04:33AM | 0 recs
A graduate of Santa Clara
It's a Jesuit school and surprisingly liberal. I remember a minor firestorm twety years ago over an article in the alumni magazine that openly questioned the theological grounds for church policy on abortion. The thing is that they published it. A much bigger shocker was the assasination of several members of the faculty/staff in Latin American by right-wing paramilitaries.

The Vatican did come out, at least twice, with statements during the election that Catholics should not vote just on the abortion issue, but on all of the issues. It specifically said that abortion was not the only issue, that voting for a pro-abortion candidate was not a sin as long as the reason for voting was not abortion. The vatican quickly issued a statement denouncing a story that Kerry was being consider for excommunication. But, of course, the SCLM didn't give any of these responses much attention.

Page 1 Bishops denounce Kerry, refuse communion. (runs on and off all summer and fall with editorial columns, LTE, and TV talking heads discussing it.)

Page 18C Vatican says Kerry is fine, Abortion not the main Issue (runs one day at the bottom of the inside page, no columns, maybe a quick mention on CNN or BBC.)

The Vatican clearly disapproves of Bush, his war, and his favor the rich policies. Abortion is also bad, but so is the death penalty, poverty, and war. The American Catholic church used to be too liberal on the topic of abortion for Rome. So to fix that, stronly anti-abortion bishops were annointed.

by Grassroots Mom 2004-11-16 04:50AM | 0 recs
I sure had the impression that the Catholic Church favored Bush. Didn't some high-up in Rome say something about not giving communion to political leaders who support abortion (ignoring other issues like the death penalty and war)? Didn't some Catholic leaders in the U.S. say they'd refuse John Kerry Communion? Didn't they tell Catholics not to vote for him?
by vj 2004-11-16 04:53AM | 0 recs
Faithful Citizenship Document - the link
Here is a link to the actual 'Faithful Citizenship' Document.

I haven't read the document in its entirety, but I have read the FAQ about it on

It is very insightful, especially with regard to the Pro-Choice/Anti-Abortion issue.

To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't promote fear of perdition for voting for someone with pro-choice values.

by Fighting Ohioan 2004-11-16 07:32AM | 0 recs
My sense would be that the Pope
was pretty upset about the Iraq war, but would consider censuring the US Bishops interfering in politics.

So, the public thought the renegade bishops were speaking for the Vatican, and the Vatican never loudly corrected that view.

I think they got what they deserved. They should have come down harder on those bishops.

by cfr 2004-11-16 10:42AM | 0 recs


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