I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

...I have never done one before, so here is mine:

I just had my ability to read hidden comments reinstated.  I suppose I had received too many troll ratings in the past but my detention time expired.  May I just make a few suggestions?

1) Stop the fury and flury of troll and hide ratings.  We are all adults, or mostly adults.  If somebody pisses you off, let em have it.  Tell them where to get off.  Troll and hide ratings are lazy and cowardly ways of showing displeasure.  They are also indicative of a netroots developed mob mentality.  Besides, censorship is rarely a good thing and, on the netroots, it often reaches the point of Stalinism.  Stalinism and group think are very, very, very, very, very bad for the long-term prospects of a party.  

2) Stop telling people that they don't have the right to call themselves Democrats.  None of us are qualified for that and no one should be.  Democrats don't demand that Republicans take an oath of allegiance to the Democratic party in order to vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election.  Telling Democrats that they must relinquish their Democratic preference and vote Republican from now on and join Red State if they choose not to vote for a Democratic nominee is no less foolish.

3) The primary is effectively over and there isn't much more than can be done about it.  That is democracy.  I didn't like the result of the 2004 GE but I had to live with it.  That's what a true American does.  Eventually, that cloud did turn out to have a silver lining.  At this point, screaming that Obama did this or Clinton did that or this or that wasn't fair doesn't make much sense.  What's done is done and we can't go back and replay the game.

That doesn't mean we have to all joing hands, hug, and sing the praises of each other.  We can still be critical of these choices.  We can still be critical of party direction and we can still be critical of those who oppose the perceived party direction.  But, just try to be a little more subdued in the way you express it.  We all just need to take a little extra effort to suppress rage, contempt, condescension, etc. and, in the process, argue in a way that is less hateful and ad hominem and more productive and compelling in the long run.

The bottom line: tolerance (at least a modicum of it).  We don't have to agree.  We don't have to stop arguing.  We don't even have to swear allegiance.  But, in the long run, we all have to tolerate our mutual existence.    

Tags: behavior (all tags)



Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

Nice post.

A dose of studying McCain and the Republicans will go a long, long way towards getting people together - far better then enforced smiles.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-08 11:10AM | 0 recs
Thanks! Yes, we should be studying those!

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

tolerate this: I will not vote for Obama

by engels 2008-05-08 11:11AM | 0 recs

"tolerate this."  Did some sort of hand gesture accompany that comment?  A Scalia-esque motion?

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-08 11:15AM | 0 recs
Hah, hah. Too bad the video wasn't attached!

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:17AM | 0 recs
I do. That was one of the points in my diary.

But, another point is that you don't have to keep throwing that fact around and beating people over the head with it.

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: I do. That was one of the points in my diary.

Heh, some of us are ok with diversified opinions.

by soyousay 2008-05-08 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

Who gives a shit?  Go vote for McCain...or stay home and cry about the injustice of it all.  Just make sure you aren't voting for him because you don't like the man as opposed to simply hating the supporters.  Either way, it doesn't matter a lot.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-08 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

I guess President Obama will have to do without your presence at the Inaugural Ball, then.

by bjones 2008-05-08 11:32AM | 0 recs
I don't believe you.

I do believe that Obama has not yet won your vote. but i'm cool with that.

by RisingTide 2008-05-08 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

Don't. You have that right. And Roe v. Wade isn't all that important, anyway.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-08 11:46AM | 0 recs
Sorry you feel that way.

I hope Obama wins your vote before November.

by Homebrewer 2008-05-08 11:47AM | 0 recs
I agree with you....

I hate unity, manner and lecture diaries too. That's why I'll never do one. Good luck to you though :D

by soyousay 2008-05-08 11:17AM | 0 recs
I agree with you in principle

  but what Democrat votes for McCain? That's not a Democrat in my book.
by southernman 2008-05-08 11:19AM | 0 recs
a fair point

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-08 11:23AM | 0 recs
Let me ask these questions...

What if the Democratic party pubically declared "Go to hell and don't come back!" to those Democrats who voted for Nixon in 1972 or Reagan in 80 and 84?  Would they have won the presidency in 1976?  Would they have won the presidency in 1992?

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:27AM | 0 recs
Not saying that's what they are doing

   nor would I suggest doing that. But to boldly delcare how much you love the Democratic Party while at the same time telling us that you will undermine it's chances for success...is...forgive me...a bit hypocritical.

 No harm in pointing it out as such is all I'm saying.


by southernman 2008-05-08 11:29AM | 0 recs
No. No harm in pointing it out

But, saying that someone is not Democrat enough might strike some the same way as saying someone is not black enough because that person may choose to depart from behaviors of peers.

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: No. No harm in pointing it out

    Possibly, but too bad. For them to support the Republican hurts the party. If us telling them that hurts their feelings, then too bad.
by southernman 2008-05-08 11:56AM | 0 recs
Well, you may hate 'em, but....

...you ain't bad at 'em, either.  Recommended.


by Progressive Witness 2008-05-08 11:38AM | 0 recs
Thanks for your kind words!

by lombard 2008-05-08 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

This is a good diary, but I confess that I find myself curious regarding who the diarist will be voting for in November.  I'm all for a big tent, and think we need to do a better job reaching out to disaffected republicans and democrats that have strayed in the past.  But it is harder to countenance folks bragging about how they plan on voting for a republican this election.  

I mean, if one is posting on MYDD, and has supported Senator Clinton up till now, I assume that the person generally shares the same values espoused by both the Clintons.  Since those values do not at all match up with John McCain's, I have a really hard time understanding how such a person is ready to support a third terms for GWB.  

by HSTruman 2008-05-08 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

Not voting for Obama does not neccesarily mean voting FOR McCain. They can be two separate things.

by Lacy Davenport 2008-05-08 11:53AM | 0 recs
President McCain thanks you

Not voting, or voting third party, is equivalent to half a Republican vote.

by N in Seattle 2008-05-08 12:20PM | 0 recs
I don't know yet

But I am going to try to keep an open mind.  You are correct that my normal preferences are Democratic and normally should keep me far enough from McCain.  

However, I'm probably a rather conservative Democrat in these parts of the net. As much as I liked Clinton and thought she could be a good president, she was a bit too nanny state for me at times.  But, I thought the years of her husband's presidency offered the best run federal government of my lifetime and I was willing to give her a lot of trust and goodwill to do the right things.

The biggest point of distress for me has involved what I see as a potential direction of the party.  Contrary to many in these parts, I thought triangulation was a good thing and one who had the governing philosophy of a Democratic Eisenhower advanced the cause of liberalism and improved the Democratic brand in the eyes of the majority of voters far more than someone advocating more radical change would have.  

I am a firm believer in incrementalism most of the time.  Bush was a "change" president and the backlash from his imperiousness and disregard for traditions was inevitable.

I also detest mass movements and cults of personality (another thing engendered by Bush).  I think they are very, very, very bad things in a democracy and almost un-American.  I see way too much of that for my comfort in the Obama movement.

Numerous friends of mine don't see why this should be a difficult choice, but for me it is.

by lombard 2008-05-08 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know yet

Well, I appreciate your honesty and candor.  We really are a big tent, and for what it's worth, I consider Eisenhower one of our better presidents myself.  I simply think that Dwight would be an enthusiastic Obama supporter today.  At the very least, he never would have voted for a republican like GWB.  And since McCain has essentially adopted most of Bush's policy proposals, including the privatization of SS, the appointment of radical conservative Judges, and the waging of an endless war in the middle east, I don't think he'd be much of a McCain fan either.  

At the end of the day though, I hope that Obama is able to persuade you that he would make a good president and that that is the basis for your ultimate vote, rather than an aversion to John McCain.  He isn't perfect, by any stretch, and anyone that says he is really is drinking Kool-Aid.  But the man has real strengths as a politician and as a leader.  You simply don't beat a politician as bright, talented, and effective as Senator Clinton without being relatively gifted yourself.    

by HSTruman 2008-05-08 02:37PM | 0 recs

I review the Hidden Comments constantly to add what logic I can to emotional debates.  For the most part, comments that remain on the HR list are pretty offensive.  I don't think there's a similar clearinghouse for TR'ed comments.

I for the most part only use those ratings for blatant lies or completely offensive posts.  The TR is for mild lies like saying someone is lying about something without any evidence and pursuing character assassination.  HR's are reserved for egregious lies like Obama is a Muslim or was trying to rig an election with Gary votes.

I've seen many TR's for people who simply disagree with the poster.  I do hope that stops eventually.

(The most disturbing trend is the number of HR's I see for sarcasm.  I don't know when this became an HR worthy offense.)

by The Distillery 2008-05-08 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

Lombard asking some folks to "bite their tongues", hmmm I dunno, that might cause some folks to bite those tongues right off. :D

Thanks for the post. Agree or disagree? Always nice to see you.

By the way,

How are you Lombard. Hope all is well with you.

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-05-08 08:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I Hate Unity and Manners Lectures, but...

This is the first diary that I've ever recommended. Now if I can get that mojo and troll rating stuff sussed out...

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-05-08 08:23PM | 0 recs


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