The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda!! [UPDATE]

cross-posted at coyotedbytes

The untimely death of Tim Russert, an event hailed far and wide as a tragedy not just for him but for NBC, for his family and for the nation, aroused in me an opposite reaction.

The outpouring of praise and adulation for the host of Sunday morning's Meet the Press, dumbfounded me.  If others were shocked by his death, I was equally shocked by the around the clock panegyric to his father, his son and his Catholicism-- his adulation of the Pope, his patriotism and his good guy persona.

The fact is Tim Russert, longtime head of NBC's Washington Bureau, was the quintessential non-reporter. And there was no journalist more implicated in disseminating the Bush administration's propaganda about Iraq.

More like a Brave New World version of a journalist, than the real deal, Russert was America's leading  exponent of entertainment  vs information. His  famous `gotcha' style--wherein each Sunday his  viewers waited for his punch, jab and  pounce on  that show's guest--came to homes every Sunday for more than a decade, but no one mentioned on the occasion of his death that show's journalistic contributions to  the public good. That he was good, no one doubted. But his work was not evaluated.

I suppose that is because after 4,000 deaths, and a totally discredited intervention that the American people have resoundingly rejected, no one wants to remember how he promoted the Iraq war. And no one wants to admit how his much vaunted journalistic integrity  went sailing out the window after he revealed without a quiver of distress at the Scooter Libby trial  he had cooperated with the FBI in revealing his source. Finally, there was no media personality on the public stage who was  closer  or more fawning  towards the Bush-Cheney White House than Tim Russert.  

President Bush's swift outpouring of sympathy at Russert' untimely death, if contrasted with his Katrina comments, were a marvel of timely consideration.

As a former news reporter for the Associated Press I remember when  reporters actually believed we had a responsibility to ensure "the people's right to know." And I remember when they considered it part of their job description to remain objective. So when Walter Cronkite at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago said, "Bunch of thugs down there," referring to the Andy Frain ushers who were assaulting both the  protestors and the delegates, this remark in itself was newsworthy.   When Cronkite made that comment I was on the floor of the convention sending stories back to CNS of Los Angeles and striving to  emulate my heroes: I.F. Stone, Art Buchwald, Edward R. Murrow, Sander Vanocour, Oriana Fallaci, and Norman Mailer for "Armies of the Night" and "Miami and the Siege of Chicago."

Tim Russert, for me, is am embarrassment to the history of journalism in America. Despite having aided and abetted the Iraq war propaganda he not only never hosted a single Iraq war veteran, he condemned as unpatriotic the showing of our military dead on Nightline in 2004.

Russert, in my opinion, was a purveyor of political porn who promoted  sensation over substance. Change, growth and the ability to rethink an issue by American politicians was routinely  portrayed as dishonesty.  And God help the politician who had a long career in politics or a long public record. Russert excelled at researching every nuance and every change as if these were proof of malfeasance and dissembling. Unfortunately, he never turned this propensity on his friends in the Bush Administration.

Madeline Zane writes:

The biggest hit parade of Bush administration lies -- Cheney's claim that 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta met an Iraq official in Prague, Rice's claim that the smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud -- all happened across the desk from Tim Russert on Meet the Press. Those lies were that much more dangerous because they were broadcast, without being questioned, on a show with an inexplicable reputation for hard-headed journalism.

In fact, during the Scooter Libby trial, Cheney's former communications director testified that Meet the Press was their best forum for giving interviews because they were allowed to control their own message without being questioned. ineZane.html

The fact is the misinformation never stopped.

On the May 20 broadcast of NBC's Meet the Press, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) suggested without challenge from host Tim Russert that the alleged plot by six men to carry out an armed attack on the Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey represents proof that if the United States withdraws forces from Iraq, terrorists "don't plan to stop in Baghdad. They are coming here as soon as they can get here." However, as Media Matters for America has documented, the assertion that terrorists will "com[e] here" following a U.S. troop withdrawal is widely challenged by experts. 05

This is from Corrente:

In a way, Russert's deliberate distortion in Wednesday's debate made Hillary look better to most of us, and not only because of her blanket rejection of torture as some kind of acceptable post-9/11 American norm; when Russert sprang his trap, announcing that the scenario she'd just rejected had been offered up by her husband and our former President, Bill Clinton, her quick witted response - "He isn't the one standing here" - was her best moment of the evening.
So far, though, not many people seem to have realized that Russert's characterization of Clinton's Meet The Press comments, circa, Sept of 2006, was essentially a lie.

/could_we_get_two_things_straight_pleasebill_clinton_didnt_endorse_torture_and big_russs_lil_russ_is_a_lying_sack_of_sh it

And no  one ever  seemed to be bothered by Russert's hobnobbing with those he wrote about and interviewed.  In December 2003, Tim Russert partied along with William Safire at Donald Rumsfeld's `winter mixer' and then "On Sunday's Today" December 14, 2003, he spoke with NBC's Campbell Brown:

I actually had the opportunity to see the secretary of Defense last night, and they were in an extremely festive holiday mood beyond their normal demeanors...I saw the director of CIA, Tenet, and said, "You know, I had the strangest dream last night that Saddam Hussein was taken captive," which I actually had on--on Friday night. He looked at me in this poker face and said, "Happy holidays.

One month later, in January, 2004, Sam Husseini, Communications Director, Institute for Public Accuracy, sent Russert a fax pointing out some egregious errors Russert had circulated  about weapons inspectors in Iraq. Russert never admitted receiving it. On the occasion of Russert's death, Husseini wrote:

The survivors of those killed in the U.S.'s war in Iraq since the 2003 invasion cannot simply blame Bush. Under the guise of "tough journalism" Russert and others disseminated lies and built the case for invasion even before Bush got to the White House.

In an article titled, "How Russert Helped Plant the Seeds for the Iraq War" Husseini included these salient points:

December 19, 1999: With Al Gore as guest, Tim Russert says on Meet the Press: "One year ago Saddam Hussein threw out all the inspectors who could find his chemical or nuclear capability." Russert asks Gore what he's going to do about this.

Soon afterward: Sam Husseini leaves a message on Russert's answering machine, and speaks to two of his assistants, telling them the inspectors were withdrawn by the UN at the request of the United States.

January 2, 2000: With Madeleine Albright as guest, Tim Russert repeats the error on Meet the Press: "One year ago, the inspectors were told, `Get out,' by Saddam Hussein." Russert asks Albright what she's going to do about this.

January 21, 2000: Sam Husseini writes a letter to Russert, again laying out the facts, and requests a correction.

January 22, 2000-March 19, 2003: Russert never corrects his error.

March 19, 2003-present: Hundreds of thousands of people die in Iraq War. Russert dies, not in Iraq War. Official Washington weeps copious tears for Russert and his Extraordinary Journalistic Standards.

This lie about the inspectors echoed through much of the political-media system around the time Russert told it, and helped set the stage for the invasion after 9/11 -- and it was a predecessor of the lie that Bush has repeatedly stated since 2003 that he invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein did not allow the inspectors into Iraq.

Russert not only aided and abetted Bush and Co on Iraq, his errors and bias in other areas were legion. Rather than help his audience become better informed he kept them misinformed, often refusing to provide  the very information needed to understand the actions of our government. And no better example of this bias can be noted than that of his so-called reportage on the Clintons.

And this predates his behavior in the now infamous MSNBC debate on Oct. 30, 2007, about which the next day Taylor Marsh wrote:

There were 52 questions asked last night; 25 had to do with either Hillary or Bill Clinton, including very personal insinuations, with 22 of the 25 being abjectly hostile.
Tim Russert asked 26 questions; 14 were to Clinton, with 5 directly targeting her personally...

In contrast, Barack Obama got asked what he would do about air travel; whether there was life beyond earth; and the question on which all Americans' safety depends, What are you going to dress as on Halloween? When the air travel question drooled out of Russert's mouth I thought I'd accidentally hit the remote to the Travel channel. But Russert's softballs to Obama when compared to Clinton were nakedly obvious to anyone paying attention. When you couple Russert's penchant for his all boys pannels on "Meet the Press," there's only one conclusion to draw...

But one of the most telling moments was when Tim Russert held up a document and asked Clinton about National Archives documents:

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I'd like to follow up because, in terms of your experience as first lady, in order to give the American people an opportunity to make a judgment about your experience, would you allow the National Archives to release the documents about your communications with the president, the advice you gave, because, as you well know, President Clinton has asked the National Archives not to do anything until 2012?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, actually, Tim, the Archives is moving as rapidly as the Archives moves. There's about 20 million pieces of paper there and they are moving, and they are releasing as they do their process. And I am fully in favor of that. Now, all of the records, as far as I know, about what we did with health care, those are already available. Others are becoming available. And I think that, you know, the Archives will continue to move as rapidly as the circumstances and processes demand.

MR. RUSSERT: But there was a letter written by President Clinton specifically asking that any communication between you and the president not be made available to the public until 2012. Would you lift that ban? SEN. CLINTON: Well, that's not my decision to make. And I don't believe that any president or first lady has. But certainly we'll move as quickly as our circumstances and the processes of the National Archives permits.

If you saw Russert hold up that document you likely thought it came within the last year. Seeing Russert's  chubby red face all flushed with excitement, in fact, you might have even gotten the impression that the document he held had just come through in a faxmachine, specifically for the debate. Oh, how important the theatrics of the moment,especially when moderator turns into "Meet the Press" attack dog.

After spending time on the phone today with a source very familiar with archive procedures, the truth of the matter is quite different. The letter Russert held up was from 1994. It's also standard operating procedures for all presidents.

The document was from 1994!! The whole episode as based on a phony issue and Tim Russert led the smear. But it was great box office. People talked about it for days.

I am not going  to belabor Russert's well-known anti-Clinton bias, his gotcha-gambit-style replayed endlessly on Sunday morning's as if this were real journalism, and his responsibility for the Iraq War along with his uncritical and pandering to the  Bush Cheney Whitehouse.

What I am going to say is that when we assert that the mainstream media is a problem, Russert was a glaring example. He was not one of the `good guys' in both the way he created headlines and then conducted his witchunts for ratings. He was not accurate so many times they are beyond counting, and he was not an honest media broker. Russert way too often grandstanded for maximum audience impact regardless of where the truth might lie.

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :

And I still hate Hillary!

Tags: Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Meet the Presss, nbc, Tim Russert (all tags)



Stay Classy


by libertyleft 2008-06-18 09:22AM | 0 recs
I think she is...

She waited the appropriate amount of time to give her critique. Sorry, but I think linfar made some good points. While I feel terrible for Tim Russert's family (and I DEFINITELY don't think he "deserved" to pass away!), I was just never a fan of his type of "journalism". He was too much of a Bush apologist, just like most of the rest of the corporate media.

Again, my condolences to Russert's family. I'm sorry about him passing away. I just didn't like his brand of reporting.

by atdleft 2008-06-18 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: I think she is...

You obviously didnt catch the last line.

See with smear diaries I always jump to the end, as that is the cowardly way to insert garbage.

How many trolls do this everytime,  list a bunch of facts and or concerns then drop the trash in the last line.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
OK, so we don't like the last line...

I agree with you on that. But still, does that discredit all the facts linfar made? Does that make her a "troll"? I think NOT.

Linfar's only presenting the facts. While Tim Russert may have been a good person, he was a lousy journalist. That's all.

by atdleft 2008-06-18 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: OK, so we don't like the last line...

I think it does, I have seen the same behaviour by countless trolls, and evertime it happens that troll is called out.

If you read the same article in the WashPo editorial section, and you read to the end, would you not also write off the article and author as BS?

Lin could have gotten away with just "bad taste" but all she defined her diary with the last line.

Also I have a hard time believing it his her.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Stay Classy

This post is right on!  Ding Dong the Dick is Dead!

by trixta 2008-06-18 12:30PM | 0 recs
Mocking his tombstone?

You sure this wouldn't go better with the gravedancing on H44?

by Firewall 2008-06-18 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

A diary like this was overdue.


by spacemanspiff 2008-06-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Is that a Shame REC?

Read her last line,  for Linfar this has all to do with Hillary.

Could you believe that bloggers on her site threatened to assassinate Tim Russert?
TM condemned that of course, but Linfar probably agreed.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

out of line.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-18 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

alyssa, Russsert is a Huge Reason we are in Iraq. What about this fact of his career do you not think is true??

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I dont believe we should write anything on his tombstone, you on the other hand do, why dont you defend it?

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

naw. I responding to DemLandSlide^^^. saying that somehow you were implicated with that whole 'assination' crap he/she has in their post, is out of line.

[my opinion of Russert is neither here nor there; I wasn't a fan of the show, I didn't watch it regularly]

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-18 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I didnt implicate anyone, read the last line in the diary and you can see what I am talking about.

She wants to write on Tim Russerts grave "I hated Hillary"

Wow, thats not over the line?

Me showing evidence that pro-hrc bloggers were threatening the mans life has no context here.

What I am saying is her whole diary is disingenuous based on that last line.

Also I don't believe it was Linfar who wrote this, unless she has multiple personality.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

come on:

Could you believe that bloggers on her site threatened to assassinate Tim Russert?
TM condemned that of course, but Linfar probably agreed.

so  you justify this by citing Linfar "I hated Hillary" comment. alright. I get it. You like Russert, she didn't think too highly of him. Lets face it, the man was a good guy. Was he biased? Yes. Did he play 'old politics' with gotcha moments? yes. Was he always the best journalist? obviously not. does any of that change why you liked him? probably not, and why should it--

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-18 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I don't believe that Tim Russert was a huge reason we invaded Iraq.  He didn't draft any of the war plans, nor was the invasion his idea, nor did he go to congress to testify on the legitimacy of any intelligence that would support an invasion, and he didn't vote for AUMF.  

He may have beaten the war drums, but to say he convinced Senators into voting for AUMF by saying things on the teevee, would make all the voting Senators look like complete morons and jackasses (which could be the case.)

And you are not going to like this next statement, but Hillary had far more of an impact and control over to the decision to invade Iraq that Russert did.  

I think you make excellent points in your diary, but it may be a little too soon.  There is always be a place for criticism of public figures, but that doesn't mean you cannot refrain from it until a more appropriate time, IMO.

by KLRinLA 2008-06-18 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Absolutely. If support for the Iraq invasion is the defining criterion then:

a) 70 per cent of the US population supported it and should be called out.

b) Senior politicians who voted for AUMF - and here I include Hillary, Edwards and Hillary - have more responsibility than one puny journalist.

c) Politicians who refused to comply - and you know who I am talking about here - are the only ones who have their hands clean

Linfar, I hope you realise that this is not about Russert hating Hillary, but about you tacitly loving Obama

by duende 2008-06-18 01:15PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Freudian slap/slip

that should have read 'and here I include Hillary, Edwards and Kerry'

Wish I'd used that preview button

by duende 2008-06-18 01:16PM | 0 recs
Had the journalists done their

job, perhaps more Americans could have been enlightened.  Their job is to report and enlighten.  

They are all now in revisionist mode - it's pathetic.  

You don't have to worry about people not calling HRC out - it's a big business.

Are you talking about the politician who wasn't in the Senate yet?  

Nowhere in your comment do you mention bush, cheney, et al.  But why do that - HRC is always on tap, right?

by Xanthe 2008-06-18 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Had the journalists done their

If you bothered to read further down the thread, you'd see who I blame above all for the Iraq war.

But notice how I called out Hillary, Edwards and Kerry. So BOO to your search for exclusive victimhood

by duende 2008-06-18 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Had the journalists done their

You've clearly missed the mark.  The whole point is that this diary criticizes Russert under the guise of his impact on the invasion into Iraq when it is really just payback for his anti-Clintonism.  All of the Senators who voted for it (along with the lying administration) have far more blame at theri feet than Russert.  Also,  it is not like Russert was the only guy beating the war drum in the MSM (nearly all were), so why is he getting pissed on the day he is put into the ground?  

You think this is Hillary hate coming from us.  I don't hate Hillary.  If you think Russert played a bigger part and had more responsibility for the Iraq Invasion than Hillary or any other senator who voted for it, then I cannot help you with your disconnect with reality.  Facts that criticze or don't compliment Hillary are not automatically "Hillary Hate", don't get confused please

by KLRinLA 2008-06-18 03:39PM | 0 recs
He is the one being lauded on

tv and so he is the one Linfar wrote about.

I do not think he is more responsible at all. That would be silly.  But neither do I admire his work in the lead up to the war.  People like him could have made a difference -or at least an impact of some sort.

It may be interpreted as payback for Clinton - but a diary can carry more than one thread or intention - and I don't see it as you do.

What "facts" are you speaking of in regard to Mr. Russert?   That he spoke out against an invasion?  

by Xanthe 2008-06-19 02:51AM | 0 recs
Re: He is the one being lauded on

well you are right about multiple threads, but the diaries theme seems a little undermined based on the motivation ("russert had a Huge Impact" vs. Russert's Clinton hate), as if Russert was a mastermind behind it.   the fact that I was referring to was Clinton & senators role in the invasion had a far greater impact than Russert's, which this diary completely ignores, and which you automatically label as Hillary hate.

you have a point in your defense of the diary but the fact that you have to come in and explain it shows  lot of gaps in the diarists reasoning, similar to what I was pointing out.  and as others mentioned, a few negative marks on a man's entire career need not be pointed out at this time, a little later would be more appropriate, Imo

by KLRinLA 2008-06-19 08:48AM | 0 recs
Look, I don't want to continue

this conversation given the nature of a youngish man dying before his time - but I dont' consider acquiescence to a unnecessary war, a war which will dog us thru the next 25 years probably, in flesh and blood, treasure and stature in the world.  

If he were such a respected newsperson - all the more reason he may have had an impact.  I recall his interview of Cheney - weak.  That speaking out could have been the apex of his career.

I don't want to continue this path, since he had many good years ahead of him but I certainly don't understand why all of a sudden we come to admire so fiercely a newsman who was silent in the face of enormous folly.

As to the timing - granted.  Still this is when it makes an impact.

As to Hillary, I often pondered how I would have voted in the Senate - as a New York senator. On some level, I understand.  The visceral hatred among many bloggers toward Hillary for this vote - makes it seem like it's her war, not the bush boy.   And - I was in every antiwar march in Chicago.  I lost friends who disagreed with me -  it made and makes me physically sick.

So - as to his career - I have no sympathy.  As to his years that may have been left - I am sorry for his family and of course, his own spirit.

by Xanthe 2008-06-19 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Look, I don't want to continue

Hey, thanks for marching in those anti-war rallies, that's really cool.  I unfortunately cannot claim the same.  I would now if there were any, but I think the next march is in November.  

by KLRinLA 2008-06-19 02:50PM | 0 recs
You're welcome -

I believe you are talking about the election - as the next March.

Well, as I've said numerable times - I hope a Dem wins, even if it's not my Dem

by Xanthe 2008-06-20 05:53AM | 0 recs
TRed for this

"Could you believe that bloggers on her site threatened to assassinate Tim Russert?
TM condemned that of course, but Linfar probably agreed."

as out of line you may this this diary is, your comment matches it.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:53AM | 0 recs
Demslandslide2008 -

Hide rated for accusing Linfar of agreeing with, or condoning murder.  You should be banned for such bullshit.  

What in hell has happened to this place lately?  

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-06-18 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Thanks Space. Yes. It was. I tried to wait until enough time had passed.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Enough time passed to say this in your last line:

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :


And I still hate Hillary!

WHY WOULD you say that, you lose all credibility.
Did he deserve to die?

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:37AM | 0 recs
Linfar, you jumped the shark big time

How pathetic, you are simply and only attacking him based only on your OBSESSION WITH HILLARY CLINTON.

Thats it, you say your a journalist but are far from writing like one.

I love how you trolls save the troll lines for the very end:

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :
  And I still hate Hillary!  

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time

Linfar is not a troll.

This diary is extremely unfortunate, however.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-18 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time

I know she isn't,  but what do you call this.

I feel very bad because just last week we were all chummy.

Who knows, from what I remember Hillaryis44 kicked her out,  maybe she used the same password on both sites and they are hijacking her name here.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time

Oh dear, please in the future read the whole diary. I think you have picked out about 2 paragraphs. What was most unforgiveable about Russert's so called newswothtyness was the way he beat the drums for the Iraq War. for Years!!!

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time


The naked contempt and vitriol in the last section of your diary, undermines the credibility of EVERYTHING else that comes before it.

You just couldn't leave out the last dig at the dead man, could you?

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-18 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time


As for drum beaters for the Iraq War... what about HRC?

This makes no sense as an anti Iraq war diary. It actually makes no sense as anti Russert diary. The only sense it makes here, on MYDD, is as a 'anti Hillary revenge diary'. For some reason Russert is the next Judas. I don't understand why this is important, here and now, and certainly think it is a waste of your talents.

You complain about Russert's 'gotcha' journalism. You're doing something worse. 'Gotcha' against a dead man.

You could have at least had the grace to write this diary when he was still alive

by duende 2008-06-18 01:21PM | 0 recs
Linfar -

I've had this same conversation with my husband and several of our friends.  We all remembered his involvement in the Valerie Plame mess - not to mention his penchant for disseminating White House talking points.

Frankly though - I would have waited before exploring all this.  Reaction to his death has been bizarre.  People seem unusually reactionary.  For example: There were numerous "I Hate Russert" diaries sprinkled all over the internet the very day he died.  It was appalling.  Complete lack of respect for the mans family.  That the most of these seemed to be on progressive sites made me ashamed.

Those were then followed by a blizzard of canonization essays - the complete opposite.  Again - odd.  Diaries like yours, examining his work and asking people to discuss it are, I believe fair - but again - I don't think you're going to find too many people willing to explore such things at this juncture.  They're still in the reactionary phase - unwilling to do anything other than jump to extremes.

Calling you a troll, and the other appalling accusations being thrown your way is, in my opinion, way over the top - but then your most vociferous detractors usually only come here to stir the pot.  Pity.  This site has really begun to slip off the rails of late.  Too many people line up behind the agitators - all too willing to jump on the "Who's a troll?  You're a troll!" bandwagon.

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-06-18 02:29PM | 0 recs
Any chance...

you could stop spamming this diary?  Just as a joke doesn't get funnier because you repeat it over and over your point doesn't become more salient by repetition either.

by tonedevil 2008-06-18 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Any chance...
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-18 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Any chance...

I was gonna ignore him for asking a dumb question, but of course it does.

Using her own words against her.

Theme Song for this diary:

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist


Linfar, you're entitled to your opinion, but I just do not agree with you.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-18 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

So you think the way Russert pushed the Iraq War was ok??

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

Yes, I think it was "okay."  I don't think it was good however.

The man had a long career and brought a new level of professionalism to political reporting.  He fucked up on Iraq, and pretty big too.

I forgive him.  The war easily would have happened without him, and his intentions were not evil.  He was mistaken.  I don't hate a man for a mistake, even a big one.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-18 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

I dont think Linfar is calling on anyone to hate T Russert.  

It does, however, behoove us, to remember his mistakes as well, and to not get carried away by a senseless desire to praise the dead.  T Russert made many many mistakes over the years (and this diary calls out some of them).  I remember the "Atta met with Iraqi intel" line on MTP...  T Russert will forever be associated with that line (or not challenging that line, rather) in my mind !!

by SevenStrings 2008-06-18 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

...a senseless desire to praise the dead.

Wow, the wakes and funerals I go to must be different than yours.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

I think singling out Russert for it is not fair. The entire media was eating out of Bush's hand in the run-up to the war. I'm sure Russert did some regretful things pre-invasion, but so did many others, and what he did pales in comparison to the blatant cheerleading in which so many other journalists engaged.

Moreover, it hardly cancels out a long and accomplished career in which he called out many politicians on their double-standards and flip-flops. (I always thought he was particularly good during that 2004 MPT Senate debate series, in which he cut through several of the vapid Bush clones the GOP fielded--successfully--that year.) Whatever happened with Iraq, I still thought Russert netted a huge plus for his career.

I understand that people may feel coverage of Russert's passing was overdone. But I still find a diary like this to be rather distasteful. It goes without saying that if you're a blogging Democrat, you don't hold the media in high esteem; it doesn't need to be pointed out to us.

Also, the last line is unfortunate and forces us to question the motivation.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-18 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist

It was about as "okay" as the way Hillary pushed the Iraq war.

They were both wrong. They both had a lapse in judgment.

by Lance Bryce 2008-06-18 06:29PM | 0 recs

I thought you turned over a new leaf linfar.  Guess I was wrong.

I understand that he declared Hillary's campaign over after she lost the delegate battle, but does that give you the right to dance on his grave?  How the hell did you descend to such depths of hate and bitterness?

by OVAH 2008-06-18 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

This has much less to do with Hillary than it does with Iraq. He pushed the war over and over and over with lies and propaganda.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

So if he never said what he did about Hillary, would you be writing this today?  I'd venture to say it's highly unlikely.

by OVAH 2008-06-18 09:48AM | 0 recs
i disagree

as someone who's been reading linfar's comments for several years, i am sure that this diary would've been written irregardless of russert's hillary hatred.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: i disagree

"irregardless" is not a word.  "Regardless" or "irrespective" would be fine.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-18 09:52AM | 0 recs
ok grammar police


by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: ok grammar police

I could give you break, but wouldn't you rather have a Kit-Kat Bar?


by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-18 10:04AM | 0 recs

i prefer snickers.  ;^)

by annatopia 2008-06-18 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

The fact that Russert (RIP) showed bias against Hilalry, a Dem, isn't offensive to you?  

by ChitownDenny 2008-06-18 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

Denny, we were waiting for you to join in this bloodbath.

Well your chance at revenge is over in this diary as it seems to be dead.

But since you are so thorough with your comments and responses, let me ask you to please point me to this fact you allude to?

I guess he was "biased" to be the reporter to announce Obama the Presumptive Nominee after the final contests.

Wow, he deserves to die for that.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

You may not like denny, but please show me where he said Russert "deserved to die". Also, linfar never alluded to any desire or glee that Russert die.

by kevin22262 2008-06-18 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: w.t.f.

Oh, thanks for that uncalled for troll rate, kevin.


by OVAH 2008-06-18 04:11PM | 0 recs
Didn't you get the memo?

It's okay to attack Bill and Hillary Clinton.  


by psychodrew 2008-06-18 03:16PM | 0 recs
Good stuff

Maybe they'll give him a big enough tombstone that you can actually dance on top of it?  

You should send this right to his son and his father.  That would really show em.  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-18 09:32AM | 0 recs
What utter crap...
his family is one thing, they are no doubt grieving and that is natural.  But, linfar is correct, Mr. Russert was not someone I admired or respected while he was alive there is no reason to go revisionist now that he is dead.  I am reminded of when J. Edgar Hoover died, my mother's first and most heartfelt reaction was "Thank God".  Not respectful in the least, but why should his memory be respected he didn't respect others when he was alive.
Sun Dog, why don't you tell us why you were a Tim Russert fan.  Tell us about what a great journalist he was.  Because if I did I would choke.
by tonedevil 2008-06-18 09:44AM | 0 recs
I wasn't a big Russert fan

As a journalist he was better than many on teevee but that's not saying all that much.  

Is it just one or the other?  Revisionist oversimplifying of the man as a simple hero or completely dancing on his grave.  Because I thought this diary was crap it means I'm lionizing Tim Russert?  

Didn't mean to make you choke or anything.  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-18 10:37AM | 0 recs
Your Tim Russert Voo Doo Doll worked

Maybe you should move on to another propagandist?  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-18 09:36AM | 0 recs
Ignore this post!

Read Linfar's diaries and comments over the last 2 weeks.

This isn't her posting.

she would never write this as found at the end of the diary:
Enough time passed to say this in your last line:

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :


And I still hate Hillary!

She was kicked off of Hillaryis44, this is probably one of their deadenders who thinks they are a McHacker.

I hope Linfar comes out and clears her name.

Also this isn't the first time someones account got hacked.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Ignore this post!

DemsLandslide, I was a journalist who loved the profession before I was a Hillary supporter or anything else. Tim Russert is responsible, in part, for getting us into Iraq. The Bush Cheney Whitehouse thought he was the most dependable for them in getting out their propaganda message. Read the article. Yes he was biased against Hill. Do not judge a whole article which is mostly about his Iraq bias and many others to assume this is all about Hillary.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Ignore this post!

So if this is the real Linfar......

How do you plan to vandalize his grave?

Black spray paint,  or will you get out a hammer and chissel and engrave "I Hated Hillary" on his grave as you so desire.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Ignore this post!

Linfar, hillary was also responsible for getting us into the war, she voted for it. Does that mean you'll write a diary about that? I suggest we not go there again, but you're the one bringing up who is responsible and who isn't.

by venician 2008-06-18 10:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Ignore this post!

Then as a journalist, you in fact should be writing a fair and balanced account of his life and not just cherry pick. Although I did not agree with him most of the time, he did in fact grill the repugs also, and your diary should reflect that, that is of course only if you are still calling yourself a journalist. Learn from them don't become them.

by venician 2008-06-18 11:58AM | 0 recs

His funeral is, you know, this probably isn't the time for this diary.

There are valid criticisms, for sure, but it could wait a week or so.

by freedom78 2008-06-18 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Oooh...

I have waited for over a week. I cannot believe on a so-called progressive blog shows  this sort of deference to Russert. Was anyone around here when MeetThe Press pushed the Iraq War down our throats???

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Oooh...

So why did Hillaryis44 kick you out?

Funny how you decried them a week ago and are now parroting their talking points.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:48AM | 0 recs
Shameless lies

He dies Less than a week ago.

If you can link to one of your pieces critical of Mr Russert before he defiled your queen, I might think this isn't a repulsively opportunistic spite party.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-18 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Shameless lies

Snark hit this RIGHT ON THE HEAD.

Its sad that on this site you can get away with intellectual dishonesty just in the name of hero worship.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Shameless lies

This site has been all about intellectual dishonesty in the name of hero worship for the last several months. This diary's just a continuation of that.

by Firewall 2008-06-18 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Oooh...

You're right, MTP/Russert did help push us into the Iraq debacle.  I was wtching then, and I didn't buy it.  Did you?  I disagreed, and sought information from other sources.

Frankly, I lost a certain measure of respect for those who did buy into it.  I lost much more for those who enabled it.  AUMF ring a bell?  

by fogiv 2008-06-18 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Oooh...

And now as I watch his memorial service, i am even more discusted with you and your timing of this diary. A women is burying her husband today and a son is burying the only father he will ever have. And you couldn't even respect that fact for just one one day? With that you have shown your true colors and inability to have and show compassion.

by venician 2008-06-18 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I am dead serious when I say that I think it would be absolutely frightening to live in your hate-filled shoes for a day.

Disagree with the man all you want... hell, hate him all you want... but there's a thing called tact and you obviously don't have a single bit of it.  

by thatpurplestuff 2008-06-18 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

4,000 dead Americans and their parents and the 9/11 widows and the maimed and wounded from a war you profess to detest, would probably disagree with you. You might actually read the diary...Oh, I know, that's not your style

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I read your diary, you said you want to desecrate his grave site.

You still havent defended or promoted that idea further.

Just go edit it out, and you might have a tasteless diary, down from a vile and disgusting one.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Oh trust me, I've read plenty of your diaries, unfortunately.  I still remember the classic one that you penned that cited anti-Muslim sites like Creeping Sharia in order to attack Obama.  I also remember you vehemently denying writing it months later (after you were banned and then allowed back here) until I provided links to comments from that very diary.

Anyway, like I said before, there's a thing called tact.  Writing a diary like this on the day of his funeral shows none, but I'll be honest and say that I wouldn't have expected anything different from you.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-06-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Your point is taken. Are you done?

Russert believed what the government told him about Hussein, and overreacted to 9/11, much like the rest of the press and much of the public in general.

It would have been nice if you had perhaps waited until after his memorial service today to get your revenge over Russert treating Hillary Clinton as the clear Democratic frontrunner in 2007.

That is all.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Your point is taken. Are you done?

Maybe the day of his memorial is exactly the right day to actually look at what his work has added up to? What on earth is the matter with people here? Russert led us into Iraq by accepting the Bush Cheney propaganda and peddling it to the American people for Years!!! He deserves to b e repudiated not enshrfiend as some sort of American hero.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:49AM | 0 recs
Or maybe it's tactless and useless

If you don't understand people's grief at this loss, then you perhaps do not understand human emotion very well.

Russert didn't "lead" us anywhere.  He failed in his media capacity to take the administration to task for its lies, but the vast majority of the American public, elected and otherwise, failed just the same.  

Hillary Clinton had more power to stop this, more power to lead, more power to crack open the deceit being woven around us and make the public aware of the consequences of this war, but she didn't do it either.  

If you want to go after Russert, you have to go after Hillary Clinton, too.  Are you willing to make that sacrifice?  If Hillary Clinton died, would you gloatingly expose every failure of her life, percieved or actual?

Tell me that you'd do that, and I'll know that you're not just a partisan (merely monstrous).

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 10:01AM | 0 recs

Poor taste.  Pissing on someone just because they were critical of your candidate is kindergarten politics.  

Russert held everyone's feet to the fire.  He was an equal-opportunity interrogator.  This piling-on has nothing to do with the war in Iraq.  Cherrypicking comments from a lifetime in journalism to smear the guy has everything to do with the fact that he didn't kiss your candidate's ass.

Enough with the sour grapes.  Grow up.

by spunkmeyer 2008-06-18 09:44AM | 0 recs

if he truly held everyone's feet to the fire, he would've challenged the lies that cheney, condi, and rumsfeld spewed on his show.

there were some that were obvious lies, esp. the one about the inspectors. i mean, anyone who'd been paying attention knew that was bullshit - journalists especially had access to the truth.  but the truth was never told.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: bull

Annatopia,  join me and Linfar in vandalizing his grave stone,  I hear they are actually putting it in a little later today, so we will have to wait.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:50AM | 0 recs

i agree the last line was tacky and i am not attempting to defend it. i am, however, defending linfar's right to compose a post detailing the bull russert pushed on his show.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:51AM | 0 recs
Jesus Christ

Just keep repeating those sour grapes talking points.  They're coming from people who clearly didn't bother watching MTP over the past two decades.  I mean, why bother paying attention when you can cherry pick quotes to match your sour grapes?

This indignation has nothing to do with Iraq, and everything to do with hurt feelings over Hillary's loss.

Get over it.

by spunkmeyer 2008-06-18 09:59AM | 0 recs
can you pass me what you're smoking?

because it seems that there's some serious knee-jerk reactions going on here.  you seem to think that because i defended linfar's right to expose russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war, that i have never watched MTP or that i'm somehow parroting talking points from the fucktards at nocents?  GMAFB.  i have never even visited either of those wastes of space, and i don't appreciate you projecting whatever sore feelings you have towards those folks onto me. i am not now nor have i ever been on that team.

frankly, if you think this is all about hillary, fine, obviously your closed mind is not going to change.  and i understand that because in the past linfar has been inflammatory.  so i do "get" the reactions.  i just do not happen to agree, and because of that i'm getting ripped to shreds.

what a fucking ridiculous joke.  people who were not on team clinton during the primaries are perfectly capable of acknowledging russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: can you pass me what you're smoking?

Look, Anna, I appreciate your history of reasoned comments at MyDD.  But this isn't a question of me not "getting it."  This is a question of some fucktards cherrypicking comments from Russert's history to create a case that he was somehow a cheerleader for the Iraq war.  It's easy to do so, because Russert pushed everybody who sat across from him, meaning that it's easy to pull "devil's advocate" quotes and sell them as somehow indicative of what he actually believed.

It's easy - too easy - to flippantly suggest, as you do:

russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war.

But it just wasn't the case.  Anyone who watched MTP religiously during the runup to the war would know this.  And I think you'll be the first to admit that most of the smears that have been thrown at the man before he was even buried had more to do with sour grapes over the way Clinton supporters felt he treated her (myopically, of course, because he pushed Obama just as hard).

Watching the proceedings has made me sad for the state of the discourse around here.  And disappointed at the eagerness some so-called progressives have for trashing someone who just died.  It truly is a microcosm of the outrageous bloodlust going on over at those sites you've never been to.

MyDD should be better than them.

by spunkmeyer 2008-06-18 10:45AM | 0 recs

i did watch MTP, and FTN, and many many other shows leading up to the war.  the only shows that were consistently critical or questioning of the administration's lies were moyers and donahue (before he was cancelled, of course).  sure, russert had his moments, but over and over and over he had those folks on his show and allowed them to lie (mostly) unchallenged.  believe me, i am not saying everything he did was bad.  what i'm saying is that someone of russert's influence and reach has a special responsibility to practise responsible journalism. i think he did in some cases, but in many more i really think he (and the rest of the MSM, mind you) failed us badly.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 10:54AM | 0 recs
this is NOT just about hillary, folks

linfar cited so many examples of russert's shoddy journamalism that had nothing to do with hillary.  i for one was always pissed when he kept pushing that "saddam tossed the inspectors out" bullshit.  i mean come on, did we all forget the lies pushed by the media in the leadup to the war?  did we forget how russert and many others gave bush's lies a platform?

let's be honest here.  russert may have been a kind and generous family man, but he was a terrible journalist.  he helped sell this war and that's simply the truth.

and while you guys might find that posting this diary today is tacky (i do kinda agree - i would've waited a bit longer), the facts are indisputable.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

Please defend the last line:

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :


And I still hate Hillary!

I assume you agree right?

Or will you excuse it by saying the rest of the article is true so we need to ignore that line for "unity".

I guess Hillaryis44 rose from the grave.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

He hated the clintons,demslandslide--among his many, many biases and disrtfrotions. Read the whole article. Iraq. Iraq. Iraq. If you are anything more than an Obaam fan, if you truly oppose the war and the way we got into it, then you cannot possibly defend Russert. Clinton was only one of his astounding and varied biases--all sold as truth.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

Clinton voted for the war.  How is that OK while Russert's crappy journalism isn't?  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-18 09:57AM | 0 recs
Because linfar supports Hillary Clinton.

That's why her name was referenced more than Russert's in a diary allegedly about his failures regarding Iraq.

by Firewall 2008-06-18 10:04AM | 0 recs
ridiculous comment

stop projecting.  i am not defending that last line and i said as much upthread.  and i am not now nor was i ever on team clinton, so don't you fucking DARE equate me with the racist fucktards at H44/nocents.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

Thank you annatopia. thank you. What is the matter with people on this website? Are memories so short? Does no one really care about how we got into Iraq. Tell, me when exactly is the right time to look at his record. When it is not news anymore? People have had a week to memorialize him. If this information does not get out there, no one will remember the propaganda role that he in fact played.

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:52AM | 0 recs
you're welcome

you and i have been on opposite sides of the primary battle, but we have "known" each other on this site for years.  of course i'm going to defend your right to post this, even if i don't agree with the timing.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: you're welcome

Thanks annatopia. As for timing--when is the right time to debunk the mythology being put forward by a dishonest press about a propagandist who profited from his lies and distortions?

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:27AM | 0 recs

i don't have an answer for that.

frankly, since he died i've been thinking about this.

by all accounts from friends and co-workers, he was a kind man with a huge heart.  that may indeed be true. but it's also true that he failed us during the leadup to the war (yes, the rest of the MSM failed us as well).

i refrained from commenting on any russert diary in the past week because i was uncomfortable raising the exact points you made in this diary.  on that front, you have more courage than i do.

but really, i just do not know when it would be appropriate to critique his journalistic record.

i am trying to think of a similar situation, and the only ones i can come up with are nixon and reagan.  when they died, they were canonised by the right (and again, by many in the FAIL media), but you read posts all over the lefty blogs screaming against whitewashing their legacies. i guess i am puzzled by the reaction to your diary because you're basically calling bullshit on the canonisation, just as the lefty blogs called bullshit on reagan's canonisation.

and yea, i know there's a huge difference between journalists and politicians, but those are the only other two situations i can think of that are even remotely similar.

if we didn't wait for reagan's body to get cold before discussing his myriad failures, well, is it really that tacky to do the same to russert?

i dunno.  i honestly don't know.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

The guy is dead.  He won't be pushing anymore bullshit onto the public.  This diary is in poor taste and is unnecessary.  Linfar could have written a diary about the living journalists who were just as bad as Russert, but he/she chose to bad mouth a man on the day of his memorial service.  That is a low class thing to do.

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-18 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks

No. I have been sickened by the pandering and the ignorant extolling of his virtues on this, a supposed liberal and progressive blog. Russert sold the American public Bush Cheney propaganda week after week after week for years. First you couldn't talk about this because he just died, then there was an approprairte time to mourn. I have given it a week. There are a lot of dead Americans becuse of this guy--and so it is wrong to say ooooh, what a loss. How tragic. And on and on. without acknowledging the truth. You have lost perspective, my friend

by linfar 2008-06-18 09:59AM | 0 recs

How is shitting all over Tim Russert's career going to change anything?  He wasn't the cause of the problem he was only a symptom of it, and as much as he pissed me off he seemed like a decent man who truly loved his family, friends, co-workers and his job.  He can be praised for those things without condoning his failures.  

I think it may be you who needs some perspective on this.  Russert was only one man.  He made the same mistakes that hundreds of other reports made.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-18 10:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Perspective?

blue, you seem to forget that I wrote this as a journalist. I love my profession. And I believe there is a special circle in hell for all the media pundits who led us into this war. Russert was Chief among them. And he profited from his pandering to Bush-Cheney. Look at the outgpouring of sympathy at his death? I certanly did not wish he would die, but I'll be damned if I will rush to euologize him inaccurately and thereby give a whitewash to the role he played. The media sold us this war.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Perspective?

The media may have sold us this war, but our congress bought it without checking under the hood.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Perspective?

You seem to forget that most of us aren't journalists.  As a result, it is hard for us to understand why you are singling out Tim Russert for his poor reporting on the day of his memorial service.  The media as a whole sold us this war.  The parts played by Charlie Gibson, Katie Couric, Dan Rather & Bubba the Love Sponge deserve just as much criticism as Russert's part.  

Your profession failed us.  You are assigning too much blame to Tim Russert.    

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
I haven't had a byline in 12 years...

...and I'm ten times the journalist you are, if this is your idea of journalism.

Real journalists don't let their spite control their story.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

If it was WJC who died, I would hope we wouldn't demean his legacy by bringing up Monica, NAFTA and losing the congress.  Instead I would hope we would focus on his accomplishments during his 8 years as POTUS and after...

Just doesn't seem "right" or "moral" to insult a dead man...Should have done it when he was alive, IMO.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Iraq seems to me a little bit more serious than Monica. I mean, c'mon, do you in fact oppose the war?? Do you regret the 4,000 Americans who have  lost their livesw there? Because Russert helpled put theim in their graves. And that is a fact. Not opinion.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

You'd sound a lot more sincere if you acknowledged the hundreds of thousand (closer to a million, in truth) Iraqi deaths instead of endlessly waving the banner of American casualties.

Just a thought.

by Firewall 2008-06-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Firewall, I think this is accurate. I guess I believe, sadly, that most Americans care  more about American deaths. But I am glad you raise this point. Our war has killed way,way more than our 4,000. It is a national disgrace beyond the niceties of some propaganda flack dying  unepectedly.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:21AM | 0 recs
If Russert helped 4000 to their graves...

...then Hillary Clinton did even more.

Can't you see how this is blinding you?

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 10:04AM | 0 recs
And Tom Daschle did even more?

After all, he was Majority Leader in 2002. He not only voted for AUMF, but he also scheduled that vote when he didn't have to. But will I blame Daschle for the war? NO.

So why are you still blaming Hillary? They got crappy intelligence. Maybe they're not blameless, but they're also not on the same level as Bush lying us into war and media pundits like Russert selling Bush's lies.

by atdleft 2008-06-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: And Tom Daschle did even more?

Anything that even mentions  Hillary inflames passions. Year in and year out Russert worked in behalf of going to war with Iraq-- that is what is most telling and despicable.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:14AM | 0 recs
Re: And Tom Daschle did even more?

I blame all who voted to authorize the use of force, they are ultimately responsible for this war.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:15AM | 0 recs

especially when the information to vote against the war was clearly out in the public domain.  remember bob graham, anyone?  he called the war right from the start and urged his fellow dems to vote against it because of the intelligence.

by annatopia 2008-06-18 10:21AM | 0 recs
I'm not, you goof.

I'm saying that there's a lot of blame to go around, and that to suddenly find the desire and drive to call one person out on it on the day of his funeral while downplaying the same responsibility on other people is deplorable and sad.

I DON'T blame Clinton for Iraq; I'm over it.  linfar should get over Russert, too.  Bush lied his way into this war; very few stood against it at the time.  Very few believed that our government would stoop so low.

How easily we forget that America used to be believed to be one of the good guys.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: And Tom Daschle did even more?

A senator who actually authorizes the war deserves a thousand times more blame than some pundit who sells it to the public.  And btw Hillary in addition to authorizing it, and voting against the Levin Ammendment (thus authorizing Bush to ignore the UN) also sold it to the public and the media when she stood on the senate floor talking about WMDs, and asserting that Sadam had links to Al Queda. Those comments along with her votes are what gave the war bipartisan legitimacy.  Pundits did not have access to classified intelligence. Hillary was a member of congress and just spent 8 years in the white house so she should have known better.

by greenboy 2008-06-18 09:51PM | 0 recs
Daschele not as famous as Hillary

Hillary was by far the most famous person in congress and the senator from the state where 9/11 took place, plus she she just spent 8 years in the white house, and was expected to become the first woman president.  All eyes were on her when congress decided how to vote.  The American people and media were also looking to her vote for guidance on whether the war was needed.  I agree Daschle had a ton of influence, but Hillary probably had a lot more.  

by greenboy 2008-06-18 09:56PM | 0 recs
Re: If Russert helped 4000 to their graves...

Hillary voted. Russeert insured the vote would happen. He propagandized for the war long before 9/11. Read the Husseini fax cited in the article. Russert didn't even repond. For pete's sake even Chris Mathews said, "His achilles Heel was his patriotism." What on earth do you think he was referring to? At the Scooter Libby trial the bush Whiteshouse guy admitted he was their best propaganda outlet. Russert's "work" is not defensible. And we here on this websirte of all places should not be giving him a pass.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:18AM | 0 recs
Willful blindness

You're entirely missing the point in your mad quest for revenge.

I hope, years from now, you will forgive yourself.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-18 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: If Russert helped 4000 to their graves...

So what your saying is Tim Russert (RIP) made Hillary Clinton vote yes to the Authorization of Military Force in Iraq?  Hmmmm...

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: If Russert helped 4000 to their graves...

Yeah, listening to the teevee instead of reading intelligence reports, hmmmm

by KLRinLA 2008-06-18 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Yes, I oppose the war in Iraq...However, I believe it was the main responsibility of congress, who had all the intelligence, to stop it.  The media fell for it hook, line and sinker but they didn't have the actual power to authorize the war, congressmen/women did and they failed us.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:07AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

hootie, I have spent a long time researching this article. The media helped insure Congressional support. The media propagandized and sold us this war. Without the media and Russert, among others, there would be no Iraq War. I believe that be absolutely true. He was complicit and he should not be let off the hook

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Can you show me his vote for authorizing the use of force in Iraq?

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Do you have any idea how powerful the media is?? Do you realize the vote would not have happened without the media. I guess more importantly, do you even care?

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:47AM | 0 recs
My thoughts

Everyone makes mistakes in their life. Even the honorable Senator Clinton supported the Iraq War at first, going so far as to repeat the administration's claims that Saddam was assisting Al Qaeda and had WMDs in her floor speech. Russert was no saint, of course, but he was no demon either.

(And by the way, why is it that everyone fixates on the 4,000 American soldiers who died, and ignores the more than a million Iraqi civilians who have perished, directly or indirectly, from our war?)

by MILiberal 2008-06-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Iraqis aren't as human as Americans.

That seems to be the implicit reason.

by Firewall 2008-06-18 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: My thoughts

I apologize for ignoring the Iraqis. But Russert made more than a mistake. His job was to be a propagandist for the Bush Cheney Whitehouse--that was the source of his 'respect,' his salary and his ratings. He sold the war, he sold a lot of other crap as well. To enshrine him now is to n ever face up to the way the media sold us this tragic disaster.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: My thoughts

If he made more than a mistake then what exactly did Senator Clinton (you know, someone who actually voted for the war) do?

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

Firewall, you may be right. I am stunned by the reaction to this truthful and accurate diary about this man's record. It would seem progresives on this site care more about respecting the distorted and dishonest legacy of admitted propagandist and war monger than they do about the truth. He is being enshrined as a great journalist for pete's sake. NOT!!!

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:05AM | 0 recs
Believe me, I'm no Russert fan.

I hold the entire media complicit in their agitprop for an invasion and occupation that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings.

But there's a difference between disapproving of Russert's shameless war profiteering and writing diaries about defacing his grave.

And there's a difference between legitimate grievances of his and others duplicity in selling a human rights violation of epic proportions and attacking the guy through an obsessive catalog of his sins against Hillary Clinton.

This diary clearly illustrates these differences.

by Firewall 2008-06-18 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

I guess I could grasp your opinion more open-minded if you would have been as critical to HRC and her involvement in pushing the Iraq War...It was her vote that actually had the power to stop or start the Iraq War.

by hootie4170 2008-06-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

Dear Hootie--this article is Not, emphatically Not about Hillary. It is about Tim Russert and how he sold us on the Iraq War among many of his propagandist sins.

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

So why did you feel compelled to make it about Hillary in the last line?

(wow I felt like David Gregory in his famous moment with Bush)

Also, what happened to you lin, was that whole "unity" BS you were pushing last week just for kicks?

Or did the Hillis44 clubhouse let you back in?


by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

Dems--WHAT ON EARTH does a diary exposing Tim Russert have to do with not supporting  unity???? I really would like to hear because this diary is about Russert. Not Hillary, not Obama and not the Democratic Party!! It is about a hack propagandist who made himself into a legend by pushing us into an immmoral and dishoenst war.

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: , Long Live Propaganda!!

It isn't about Hillary in the last line-it is a satire on Russert's bias and hate. He was not objective, the last thing from it. That is what the last line is supposed to show  

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:14AM | 0 recs
this got rec'd?

by ab03 2008-06-18 10:30AM | 0 recs
Unnecessary crap diary, not worthy of a

progressive blog.

What the fuck does a slam diary on a jounalist have to do with progressive politics?

Gosh, we had a whole day of issue diaries.  Thank god we get back to character assasination.  Nice move.

Anyone have a dozen diaries on how sexist everyone else is, or how much a Democratic politician sucks?


by chrisblask 2008-06-18 10:38AM | 0 recs
Everything you state ....

about Russert's role leading up to Iraq and being a complicit mouthpiece for Bush / Cheney is accurate.

Folks around these parts are mad, however, not because you pointed out Russert's faults, but because you didn't use the opportunity to denigrate Hillary or Bill.

That's the bottom line.

Oh yeah, the commenter who continually makes the charge that you have planned to desecrate Russert's grave is off his rocker.  You made a statement of supposition, not a declaration of intent to act.

Folks just want to skewer you because they remember you were a big time Clinton supporter, and have decided that your change to Obama is of no matter, you are still 'a fair target' for their hatred of Clinton.

by emsprater 2008-06-18 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Everything you state ....

Thanks for clearing that up.

We can always count on the sound judjement of Emsprater.

He is so right, It's ok to make this attack all about revenge.

This diary needs some background music, just thought of some.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Everything you state ....

As opposed to YOU being 'right' and everyone "counting on the sound judgment of DemsLandslide2008".

Really.  Opinions vary.  Get over yourself.

by emsprater 2008-06-18 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Everything you state ....

You got to admit that is a great song for a revenge diary.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Everything you state ....

Appreciate your comment emsprater. As I have said somewherfe else I was a journalist longbefore I supported Hillary. It is with great shame I have watched the Russerts take a nobel profession--sometimes--and turn it into a propaganda macnine for bush-Cheney. What is absolutely astounding to me is that the same press which sent us to war is now eulogizing their patron saint and so-called progressives want to join the chorus.

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:58AM | 0 recs
Do not approve


by really not a troll 2008-06-18 10:43AM | 0 recs
About Russert

Needed to be said. Thanks for saying it. Rec'ed.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-18 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: About Russert

Yes I recced it too.

Revenge is so so so sweet isn't it?

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: About Russert

Thank you. I appreciate it. Good to hear from you :)

by linfar 2008-06-18 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: About Russert

Yeah, I took a break and went on vacation last week to the Florida Keys. Interesting stuff afoot when I returned.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-18 03:00PM | 0 recs
This Diary is a Classic Case...

of transference.

Just substitute "Obama and Supporters" for "Tim Russert," and it sounds just like Linfar's other concern diaries.

You need a new schtick.

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-18 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: This Diary is a Classic Case...

You know, if you thought even a little bit as much about the corporate media and who they choose to euologize as you do about whether or not I am pushing a 'schtick,' you might actually show some good sense.

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: This Diary is a Classic Case...

I refer you canadian gal's diary for an excellent example of the case that you are trying to make, without resorting to very unsavory metaphors.

I'm actually very disappointed in you.

by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem 2008-06-18 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: This Diary is a Classic Case...

I am still shocked.

What a shame, a person for unity and winning in november goes to this.

She never changed, she just wanted to weasel back in and drop this.

This diary lacked any substance and was just another hit job for a campaign that is over.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: This Diary is a Classic Case...

Dems--whoever--You are a troll.

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:51AM | 0 recs

as I am sick of blind hero worship when anyone conservative dies. Just like with Reagan, everyone HAD to say something awesome about him. Now Tim Russert. But I'm sure if Dan Rather died, this wouldn't be the case. I fear what the coverage of Bill Clinton, in 30 or hopefully more years will be like when he isn't around. I'm sure the media will dredge up Monica at every turn. When Bush Sr. dies, its gonna be a big love fest, and then the talking heads are going to peddle the myth of Ross Perot costing Bush just to make him not look as bad for being a one term President, despite exit polls and all other statistical measures showing Perot only helped Bush get back in the game after being down in the polls by 20 points at a time by the fall of 1992, and how he ended the cold war, and was so moral compared to Clinton. I can just imagine, but I don't want to.

by Lakrosse 2008-06-18 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd

Yes, the conservative bias in the corporate owned press is sickening. Dan Rather was 20 times the news reporter Russert eve dreamed of bieng--my opinion of course :)

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd

Yup. Don't forget the revisionist history we were all subjected to when Nixon and Ford died. They pretended Nixon wasn't a criminal, and that Ford was a "great healer" of our nation.

by LakersFan 2008-06-18 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd

Wow three trolls,  
Does sockpupetting count when there are 3 people?

Lakrosse, nice to see you not let the ban get your down.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd

You're welcome to have undying and unquestioning love for Tim Russert, but that doesn't mean people who feel differently are trolls. Get over your silly and inaccurate name calling, it's a waste of everyone's time.

by LakersFan 2008-06-18 03:07PM | 0 recs
It's not about Russert

Criticizing Russert isn't about dancing on his grave or mocking his family's grief. I wouldn't expect his family to be reading mydd, in general, and certainly not today. Why now? Because he's being celebrated and applauded as the pinnacle of a profession for performing his job in a manner that many of us consider shabby.

It's not just his family reading the accolades -- it's all the other journalists. Journalists are looking at the outpouring of admiration and respect and thinking -- when I die, I want people to talk about me like that. Who doesn't want to be appreciated and spoken of in such glowing terms? So how does a journalist get that respect? Act like Tim Russert. This seems like the most appropriate time to point out that not everybody considered him the best the job had to offer. I don't want journalists aspiring to be Tim Russert. Really, what more do you need to know than he was Cheney's favorite guy?

As for the timing of linfar's diary... were any of the people complaining about it being the same day as the memorial service invited to the memorial service? Every day, someone somewhere is having a day where they would prefer certain subjects not be discussed. It's not like linfar is handing out pamphlets outside the funeral, or protesting it with a "God hates Tim!" sign. The mourning of one family shouldn't be reason to silence all discourse on the topic. She's not running an op/ed in the Washington Post.

The idea that one shouldn't speak ill of the dead is fine if you're talking about just venting your spleen on the deceased. But the points linfar is raising are bigger than one man's life. I'm not interested in debating the appropriateness of every word in this diary or the timing of its posting, but for the simple principle that it's ok to assess and criticize Russert's professional contributions I must speak up in defense.

by Mobar 2008-06-18 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about Russert

Dear Mobar, I cannot thank you enough. You have said it all so well. I am finding it amazing that so many who purport to support a more responsible and honest media cannot see that the euologizing of Russert does the opposite. He is being held up as a model of responsible journalism. It is another media outrage. Somewhere surely someone has written that politeness is the death of democracy.

by linfar 2008-06-18 11:49AM | 0 recs
Funny thing

I think this is the second time you've responded to one of my (many) comments to your diaries. The first time you called me a racist.

I think you've got two problems here. First is the social pressure not to speak ill of the dead. Second is, well, it's you. And plenty of people here (myself included) still read you with a skeptical eye. We're not a nation of Spocks. People respond to the messenger and they respond to the way the message is conveyed. I wouldn't despair that people are completely missing the point about irresponsible media. Perhaps consider changing your way of presenting the message.

by Mobar 2008-06-18 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Funny thing

Mobar, the diary is mostly research and facts. If I am blunt--that is my style.  There are 3 aspects drfiving the negatgive commentary:  the social pressure around death, the Hillary hate so that most people completely skipped over Iraq, and finally, a terrible and deplorable refusal to deal with why we went to war in Iraq. It is as if there is mass amnesia about the way the media marched us to war, then embedded themselves to send back juicy on-line reports. And the denial about  Russert  is staggering. How could someone being so praised and  remembered so fondly, be anything like what that hateful Linfar says? Easy. These are the same people who brought you the war.  

by linfar 2008-06-18 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: There's hate

and then there's all-consuming hate.

by xdem 2008-06-18 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: There's all consuming hatred

 and then there's paranoid delusion.

by xdem 2008-06-18 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: There's all consuming hatred

Willful Ignorance.

My new word of this campaign season.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: There's paranoid delusion

 and then there's dissociation and psychosis.

by xdem 2008-06-18 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: There's dissociation and psychosis

 which cries out for intervention, but alas, there's no one to intervene.

by xdem 2008-06-18 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead

Linfar, you are all the things that Russert and his ilk are not:
Courageous, honest, and a diligent researcher.

I understand why you left that industry. There's no place for reporters with real integrity anymore.

by LakersFan 2008-06-18 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead

Yea and an industry that doesn't allow you to smear dead people for political revenge.

I could only imagine one person writing something like Linfar, and that is Ann Coulter.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead

If you think this is about political revenge, then you haven't been paying attention.

by LakersFan 2008-06-18 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead

Um no, I can read and it is right there.

So either you are illiterate or ignorant.

Keep dancing on his grave, its good for the soul, if you are a republican.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:15PM | 0 recs
&quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

I would have thought you would realize that including "And I still hate Hillary" in the last line would distract from your main point, especially since you claim that the diary is really about Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.  Also, after briefly mentioning Iraq in your opening, you post a far more attention-grabbing video with Russert questioning Clinton.  I have no problem with you presenting a researched case against Russert given that several days have passed since his death, but given your opening and closing you really shouldn't be surprised that people are taking this as a diary about the Clintons.

by ashriver 2008-06-18 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

Dont waste your keystrokes,  Linfar and her buddies are great at trolling ethos were you make a smear and than have ZERO response to it.

Alegre did this perfectly, seems every troll wants to emulate her now that she retired.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

Did you read the whole diary? You have just mentioned the only portions about Hill. I think it is true that no one actually reads diaries. this diary is about Iraq mostly and russert's amazing propagandizing for Bush-Cheney. The line about his tomsbstone is about bias--not Hillary. Altho I can see that just her name is a red flag still for those who either cannot or will read or a line with her name in. And if you really grasp the level of Russert's bias, the line is funny.

by linfar 2008-06-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

I did read the whole article, and I know from cognitive science, and I would think most people would know from journalism school, that the opening and closing are the parts that are the most salient for people.  Furthermore, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that your diary was actually supposed to be about Iraq as you say, but was merely trying to explain why you shouldn't be surprised if people took it differently due to some unfortunate editing choices.

by ashriver 2008-06-18 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

No, you are wrong, wrong wrong about the most salient parts of a diary or article, etc. Most people never make it to the end. You put all the important stuff in the beginning.

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;As a former news reporter&quot;

OK, so in general most people don't make it to the end; that's interesting and I didn't know it.  But since most of the people who are upset clearly did read the end of your diary, perhaps you can understand why they might be upset.  

by ashriver 2008-06-18 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Hillary Clinton is a Senator who voted for the war and has refused to apologize for it!

How does she get a pass on that by her supporters but its A-OK to criticize a dead man?

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Dont waste your keystrokes, this is not an honest diary.

It is what you call a "revenge smear" piece.

People like Linfar have a beef with the whole media because they did not hand the election to Hillary.

The diarist is desperatly trying to be accepted by the PUMA clowns, as she was desperate to be accepted by Hillaryis44.

What people will do to feel accepted.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 12:38PM | 0 recs
But he didn't hate Hillary.

He played 'Gotcha' with her as well as everyone else but the people who talked about him after his death all said unanimously that they expected him to call them out on inconsistencies.  However, while he wouldn't tolerate trying to dodge the question, he always gave them ample time to explain their position (or change in position) on an issue.

I agree that sometimes the 'Gotcha' was annoying but he treated everyone that way, not Hillary specifically.  The people who knew him well, including his son, said he treated his role on MTP as if he was cross-examining the guests.

My son, who gets pretty much all his information about politics from MTP, was heartbroken that Russert died.  I was always surprised that my son was reasonably up on what the gov't was up to just by watching that one Sun. a.m. show every least for someone who cares little for politics.

Russert didn't question the Iraq war enough which I do consider a failing on his part but Clinton, Obama, McCain and pretty much everyone else who knew him respected him.  That's good enough for me.

by GFORD 2008-06-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: But he didn't hate Hillary.

Didn't question Iraq enough?????? He is the propaganda man who got us there. I mean when the Whitehouse says we could always depend on him to get our message out--unchallenged. Houston, we have a problem...

by linfar 2008-06-18 12:39PM | 0 recs
His son is speaking right this moment at

his funeral.

Are you dancing because he is dead?  Does it "inspire the opposite reaction" in you that his wife is a widow?

My disgust with this entire thread has nothing to do with whether or not you have any valid points about the man's bias - I think they are at best wildly overstated - it is due to the ghoulish glee that is being taken in a person's death, and a family's loss.

There is no valor in this, linfar.  There is never anything to celebrate in the death of another.


by chrisblask 2008-06-18 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: His son is speaking right this moment at

there is no glee, what there is, is dismay at the eulogizing of a man who sold on on the Iraq war for YEARS!!!

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:29PM | 0 recs
Iraq cannot be blamed on any one person

other than GWB.

I myself have complex views on the war.  First, that we should not have gone there, and if we did it should have had no more justification than the fact that that sick fuck Saddam was alone in the world to hold parties on 9/11/2001 while my friend's body burned in the Pentagon.  And we should have followed the advice of those in the military who knew that it would take 400,000 soldiers not 100,000 (which given troop strengths at the time and the engagement in Afghanistan would have, by itself, shown that it was not possible to do) - instead of replacing them with Yes Men.

A friend of mine was a weapons inspector after Iraq War the First.  I have heard enough about the man and his actions from people who were there in person to make my hair turn white.  Saddam was just as bad as he was painted (starved 500,000 of his own country's children while sitting on hundreds of millions in cash - so he could say that we did it..).  Barefoot Kurdish girls pushing carts of chemical weapons into trucks while the cameras focused on the gates where an Iraqi Republican Guard Colonel faced off with a weapons inspector refusing him entrance to the warehouse (when my friend challenged another Iraqi soldier about that bit of joy he smiled and answered "none of these girls will live to be sixteen, anyway.")

Still, should we have gone to war with him when we did, how we did, for the reasons we pretended we did?


But it is all too complex a situation to heap the blame on the shoulders of a journalist.  It is a simple-minded response to a wildly complex situation, and hanging it all on said journalist while his body is put in the ground is so tasteless it makes me, frankly, quite pissed off.


by chrisblask 2008-06-18 01:49PM | 0 recs
It's implied the whole of our

vaunted journalistic corps is part and parcel of the war's propaganda - not just Mr. Russert.

Perhaps if the coverage was less than nonstop, some of us may not have even gone there.

Know the name of the latest American soldier killed off the top? or of one of the Iraqi citizens?  

It's simple minded to heap the blame on one journalist - but this is the one that is being lauded.

It's too bad he is gone at an early age.  No one wanted him to die or is jubilant - but basta.  

We all think it's complex - we all abhor the war here probably - Linfar is merely calling out the journalist who is being feted as making a difference.  Well, perhaps he could have - he didn't.

by Xanthe 2008-06-18 02:39PM | 0 recs
And while I'm at it -

my gratitude and respect to Helen Thomas who - since she isn't part of one of the corporate sheep now rewriting their journalistic reputation - received little note after Scott McClellan's book.  

Some of us remember!  Damn straight!

by Xanthe 2008-06-18 02:45PM | 0 recs
I wouldn't say our journalist corps is all

that vaunted, but I get what you are saying.  The MSM certainly did not win points for being diligent and professional and I don't cut them undue slack for that.  However, recognizing the position they occupy I don't overly burden the individuals in front of the camers with the responsibility for the complete outcome.  The description of that position are longer than this comment would reasonably dictate, but include dancing on the ends of the strings of both the viewers who generate the ratings and the corporate moguls who interpret them.

Celebrities don't intrigue me, so I have not done either a retrospective or real-time career-long analysis of Tim Russert.  What I do intuit from seeing him as part of the world is that personally he seemed like the kind of rock-solid guy who would generally try to do the right thing, and professionally as someone who pricked the balloons of all types of people.  Not much more I ask of a journalist.

by chrisblask 2008-06-18 05:35PM | 0 recs
I expected more from

journalists in the frenzy moving up to the war.  The consequences of that war will be felt for many, many years - here in the States as well in the world. and so should you expect more.

by Xanthe 2008-06-19 02:43AM | 0 recs
I would have liked more from the media

but to expect it given that we vote for their content with our viewship is unrealistic.

CanadianGal has started some good conversations on this so I won't repeat all that here, but in short we are moving away from the captive media that has been the historical norm for all of human history.  But given the dynamics in place in 2002 (and to a large extent still today), the coverage of the day is not surprising, at all.

by chrisblask 2008-06-19 03:56AM | 0 recs
This is dangerous because you

will have two camps - traditionalists watching, reading MSM - dissenting voices on the internet.  Both will become entrenched in their own ideology - too bad.

They have a code; they want to do a good job; I still disagree with you - you are giving them a pass.

by Xanthe 2008-06-19 05:24AM | 0 recs
Re: This is dangerous because you

The two mediums will merge completely.  How?  We don't know, it's stil working itself out.

Fair to disagree with my view.  I don't give them a pass any more than I do you, just see them in their context.



by chrisblask 2008-06-19 07:22PM | 0 recs
Chris, I just got an email from

FAIR as to Tim Russert.  I don't know how to link here but if you go to FAIR - it's their latest report.  It pretty much says what I say except it is more professional and detailed.

According to FAIR, Cheney's aide said she would send individuals to Russert's show in particular for the softball game.  (My language)

I thought you might be intrested.

I hope this wasn't linked in diary as I am in comments section - but I think it is later than diary.

by Xanthe 2008-06-20 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: But he didn't hate Hillary.

For Fuks sake, what about Hillary! At least be honest and apply the same standards.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:24PM | 0 recs
But the man is dead.

There's no sense beating him up now.

by GFORD 2008-06-18 08:27PM | 0 recs
Courageous post, linfar.

It might have been easier to publish this diary later, but you've never been one to mince words or shy away from uncomfortable topics. Credit where it's due. ;)

by sricki 2008-06-18 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Courageous post, linfar.

thanks sr. No, not one to hold back more than necessary :) to me waiting longer is like putting demonstrators at an event where no one will see them. Part of the issue as I see it is the eulogizing that is going on. The issue and subject are timely now.

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Courageous post, linfar.

Except when it comes to the uncomfortable topic of Hill's war vote.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I know little about Russert beyond the obvious, living in London. But I find it hard to believe that he was any different from most US journalists in the traumatised lead up to the invasion of 2003.

If Wolf Blitzer had just died, would you be writing the same diary?

I can't help suspecting that other motivations are at work.

But please, carry on. It seems that the US media have enshrined Russert, and now the blogosphere's main task seems to be to blame him for Iraq

The whole thing fills me with distaste however, and it's the first time during this primary season that I'm glad I live in the UK

by duende 2008-06-18 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

"It seems that the US media have enshrined Russert...."  I think that is the point many diarists on this blog are responding to.

by ChitownDenny 2008-06-18 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Pah. Putting on pedestals, and tearing down from them, are just two sides of the same coin. Either way, it's Britney Spears. And both phases leave me with a sour taste in my mouth.

by duende 2008-06-18 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Thats a great point Duende.

I challenge Linfar, the "journalist" to write the same on Wolf Blitzer, a man with little praise worthy attributes.

And he's not dead either so it seems like a no brainer.

As a former "journalist" that should be so easy.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

No one is saying the truth about Russert. We have become a nation more interested in being  nice rather than being fair or truthful. This man talked us into Iraq every Sunday year in and year out, and then he justified the war and the casualties for another few years. I think anyone who defends Russert has lost all rights on the use of the word progressieve--not to mention perspective and all sense of reality. How on earth do you think we went into Iraq? The media is selling you now on poor timmeh. Anyone who thinks the media is not important, just behold the comments in this diary.

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Linfar. You're going overboard. I don't know why you're getting so exercised about this, but please reconsider what you say

I think anyone who defends Russert has lost all rights on the use of the word progressieve--not to mention perspective and all sense of reality

Imagine I said to you that anyone who defends Hillary  and her AUMF vote has lost all rights to be called progressive, and all sense of reality?

You'd call me a troll.

Please don't make this big deal about one dead journalist. The over-reaction on your part is shrill, and in danger of becoming diagnosable. You always sounded so compassionate in your diaries, but I fear you've always been looking for conflict and negative emotional feedback. It seems you've chosen a subject which simultaneously ramps up your progressive kudos, and still gives you this negative attention.

Step away from this stuff. It's toxic. And does you no good in the long run

by duende 2008-06-18 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

duende, hey, I am the psychologist here... jjjoke. I must say I am shocked by all the negativity on this diary-- I have to say it. I never expected it on a progressive blog. It is as if people here have amnesia. But I will not back down from this travesty in the media sweeping people up in its embrace-- that Russert was a journalist without equal, who was fair and unbiased, who was a saint, who always got the story and on and on and on. The White House freely admits he was their most reliable outlet before during and even after the war. Why are we weeping about this "loss?" The media holds us in a much tighter grip and has more sway than people realize. this is just one more example.

by linfar 2008-06-18 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Linfar. I for one have no 'amnesia' and I remember you being banned for scurrilous attacks on a dem nominee.

It seems ironic to me that you accuse Russert of being a poor reporter, when your diary seems to manifest exactly the same propagandising and 'gotcha' journalism you accuse him off.

Rassentiment anyone? Or schadenfreunde among colleagues?

by duende 2008-06-18 03:39PM | 0 recs
timothy rest in peace...

Very few journalists spoke out against the war, and this is unwarranted and uncalled for. After listening to others speak about his career, his passions, his life he seemed to have been an honorable man...and a well-respected journalist amongst his peers.

by april34fff 2008-06-18 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: timothy rest in peace...

april, he is being euologized by the same press and punditsw who sold the Americvan people on the Iraq war.

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: timothy rest in peace...

but wouldn't it make more sense to hold our congresspeople who voted for this despicable war accountable? They are responsible for this madness in iraq.

by april34fff 2008-06-18 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: timothy rest in peace...

They are going to be held accountable in November

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: timothy rest in peace...

The same way Hillary was in the primary.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: timothy rest in peace...

The press and pundits didn't sell it, the Bush admin and congress sold it.  The worst you can say about the media is they didn't ask the tough questions, but I blame the people who actually made the case, not the press for failing to take it apart.  

Further there was only so much the press could do.  They had no access to classified intelligence, and if they had dared to challenge the presidet the viewers would revolt and sponsors would pull out.  Lastly even if the press had convinced the public to oppose the war that still would not have stopped Bush.  Look how upopular the war is now but Bush keeps it going.  He couldn't care less about public opinion because he was granted authority by congress.

The only people who could have prevented the war was congress by A) not authorizing it in the first place B) not authorizing Bush to ignore the UN by not voting against the Levin Ammendment, and C) using their power to impeach if they felt the president was trying to abuse his war powers.

by greenboy 2008-06-18 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Linfar. You say you used to be a journalist. I will always give you credit for being a very effective propagandiser for Hillary during the primary wars.

So I take the title of your diary with a freudian double meaning.

May you inherit Tim Russerts crown soon.

by duende 2008-06-18 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

You live in england, right? Why are you so sure you know anything about Russert. He is being eulogized by the same people who sold the American public on the Iraq war, who killed 4,000 Americans and only god knows how many Iraqis, and they are doing it exactly the way they sold bush--by concentrating on what a nice guy he was. I mean has the concept critical thinking ever crossed your path.  Nah...

by linfar 2008-06-18 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

Did Bush die recently? I think I missed that bit. And though I live in Britain, I know more about US politics than you may think.

Russert had very LITTLE to do with the 2003 invasion if you really need to know. The disinformation was sewn at the highest levels of the Pentagon and State department when it came to WMD, and journalists were much lower down the food chain.

To this day, even Richard Armitage, assistant secretary of state at the time, has a hard time understanding the collective hysteria. Personally, I blame Rumsfeld, Feith and their neocon cohorts.

But I can tell you, there are a couple of THOUSAND people more responsible for Russert for that fiasco, and your good faith would be more apparent if you called out the living rather than the dead.

by duende 2008-06-18 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

On second thoughts, I don't know why I'm bothering to reply. Your xenophobic presumption reminds me of the subtly bigoted diaries you wrote against Obama during the primary wars. You thrive on toxicity, and you've just found a new convenient taboo on which to vent your ire. If people need to court your support for Obama, good luck to them. Personally, I think that the democratic party, and this site, is better without it.

by duende 2008-06-18 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I don't know what the problem is here. The neocons needed  a  mouthpiece. They needed a complaint media--without it Nothing. No war!!!! He wasn't alone but he was a major, major mouthpiece. Russert brought us to where we are today. What part of this do you not understand?? Oh, I know, it is all the sad eulogizing going on for poor timmeh--in the same media that sold us the war.  

by linfar 2008-06-18 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

The American people needed a Senator with enough backbone to stand up to Bush and not vote for the war.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

What is sad is this shrill and inappropriate name-calling over a dead man, when the main culprits (including many democrats) are still alive and can still hear.

No wonder you are a former journalist. This defies any good taste, and any political justification.  

by duende 2008-06-18 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

You either cannot or will not admit [understand] the role the media played in the runup to war. Now they are eulogizing him as a saint. C'mon now, it is Saint Russ, isn't it? the guy who was at the heaed of the media band. I am finding it troubling that so few of the commenters on this diary understand how critical a free and impartial press is to a democracy.

by linfar 2008-06-18 04:26PM | 0 recs
Ideologue (n): See Linfar

I am new here, and I am already sad to learn there is no way to unrecommend a diary.

It is interesting to note that the cons are also celebrating his sad and untimely death. Fox News showed only slightly less class than you, and blasted him for being part of the liberal media on Monday.

So the right hate him for being liberal, and you hate him for supposedly being complicit with George Bush. To me, that tells me he's doing something right.

Or does this have to do with the Clintons...

by iohs2008 2008-06-18 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Ideologue (n): See Linfar

I'm new here as well and what irks me the most about this diary is the sheer dishonesty and double standards being applied.

Its not okay to talk about the blood Hillary has on her hands and has never apologized for, but its okay to denigrate a dead man on the day of his funeral.

Filthy Fucking Liar = Diarist ('scuse my language)

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Ideologue (n): See Linfar

Guys being new here let me tell you who Linfar is.

Well I dont need to tell you, click her name and you can see all her diaries and comments.

Becareful because last week she pretended to support Obama so people would soften up to her, then today she reverted to her old ways.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 02:44PM | 0 recs

You have no respect or dignity.  You should be ashamed of yourself and if you don't know why, then that just goes to prove my opinion of you.  Go away.

by brathor 2008-06-18 02:23PM | 0 recs
So hows the weather up there on your high horse?

You won't even try to refute her arguments or challenge her facts.  You'll just dismiss her with your manufactured outrage?

Linfar was a tough advocate for Hillary Clinton and made a very difficult decision to get behind Obama as soon as Hillary dropped out.  She has taken a lot of criticism for that.  Linfar is an excellent writer.  She is tough, but fair.  You may disagree with her analysis but her facts and data are always well-sourced.

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: So hows the weather up there on your high hors

The media in general and Tim Russert in particular fell in line behind the lies told to them and we should hold them all accountable.

1. There are people alive right now who not only promoted this war but suppressed everyone who questioned them. Taking them to task seems alot more valuable than disrespecting a man on the day of his funeral.

2. Hillary Clinton voted for the war, has blood on her hands and hasn't expressed any contrition over it.

But you want to criticize the dead man. Brave.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: So hows the weather up there on your high hors

Linfar and others have been criticizing Tim Russert for a long time.

Hillary Clinton has said that if she had the opportunity to vote differently, she would.  But she's not apologizing because she's not a panderer.  

You should know two things.  First, under the law, Bush could have gone into Iraq without the resolution.  Second, you should read her floor speech to understand why she cast that vote if you want to understand her intent.

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 02:40PM | 0 recs
Is this the new MyDD?

I'm starting to think that the only people you can criticize at this site without being called a GOP troll are Bill and Hillary Clinton and John McCain.  Sad.

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

Only a republican would celebrate the death of a "liberal" journalist.

That is all Linfar is doing, she never wrote anything about the war, and wont write anything past today.

She is a troll, just read this diary backwards.

She is also a liar,  she put on a whole show pretending to have denounced Hillaryis44 and no1/4 but now fully embraces them.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-18 02:46PM | 0 recs
Linfar is not a troll!

After Hillary conceded, she lined up behind Obama and began blogging at Clintonistas for Obama.  When she made this decision, she burned some bridges and royally pissed some friends in the blogosphere.

You don't know that the fuck you are talking about.  Piss off!

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar is not a troll!

Right on! And it was Linfar's choice to do it. She didn't have to but she did. So all the punks on this site that still give her shit need to STFU and be grateful. I have to wonder if these punks also torture babies and kittens.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-18 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar is not a troll!

Why did you TR me,  you agreed on the game Linfar played.

Does that not make her a troll.

She pretended one thing, we all said "wow is that really her"  

So deceiving alot of people is not trolling.

If you fell for her game I am very sorry for you.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-19 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

I hear you. I almost had to pull my ID out to prove I wasn't Alegre. It's more than sad it's scare when fascist-like behavior is tolerated.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-18 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

I agree, y'all. the comments on this diary sound more like rethugs to me, than people who have a progressive agenda and who understand what we are up against. Russert who promoted the war shamelessly, pandered to Bush-Cheney outlandishly and was riddled with bias he never owned is being defended. It boggles the mind. All because I mentioned his Hillary bias.

by linfar 2008-06-18 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

They accused you of being Alegre!

You should consider that a compliment!

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

That is what I told them, then they troll rated me. Go figure.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-18 05:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

Consider it another compliment.

It means that you are effective.  If you weren't, they'd ignore you.

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

It means you are effective at trolling.

Alegre is universally hated for being the biggest coward on this site.

I took back my Alegre association when Grlpatriot started responding to comments, that was something Alegre didn't have the bearings to accomplish.

by DemsLandslide2008 2008-06-19 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Is this the new MyDD?

It seems that the only person that gets a pass for a   vote that led to the deaths of 4000+Americans and ????thousands of Iraqis without expressing contrition is Hillary Clinton.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 03:58PM | 0 recs
She got a pass?

Wow!  I must have missed that.  When did that happen?  

by psychodrew 2008-06-18 04:54PM | 0 recs
I would have waited until Russert was

in the ground due to the saying if you are dancing on someone's grave while their not in the ground yet you are in a 6ft deep hole.

But I agree completely with the diary.  Russert did hate the Clintons and his bias should be pointed out.

Recced, but again I would have waited one more day...


by Student Guy 2008-06-18 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: I would have waited until Russert was

Hi SG--I didn't know the memorial was today :( T

by linfar 2008-06-18 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I would have waited until Russert was

So you're going to delete this?

by redwoodsummer 2008-06-18 04:47PM | 0 recs
Why do Hillary fans keep trashing Russert

I find it ironic that Hillary fans blame Russert for propogandizing for war, when no one did more to support the war than the Clintons.

1) Hillary actually VOTED to authorize the war.  That not only is the ultimate in propoganda, but it gave Bush authority, and as not only the senator from New York but the most famous person in the senate, she set the tone for her colleagues in congress.

2) Hillary voted against the Levin Ammendment (by doing so gave Bush the authority to ignore the UN)

3) Hillary talked about WMDs on the senate floor.  That's pretty powerful propoganda coming from the senator from new york, a woman who just spent 8 years in the white house, and the most famous senator in America.  Not to mention she's a democrat so she gave the war bipartisan legitimacy.

4) Hillary went so far as to assert Sadam had links to Al Queda. Even Lieberman didn't go that far.  

5) Bill Clinton made public comments about Sadam being a threat. Pretty powerful coming from such a popular former president from the opposite party.

6) The Iraq Liberation Act which planted the seed for the Iraq war passed during the Clinton administration.

Hillary supporters are just mad that Tim Russert's tough question about her Iraq war votes helped cost her the nomination so they are shamelessly attacking a man who just died.  Sure Tim wasn't perfect and let a lot of bad info go unchallenged, but Hillary actually spoke the propoganda out of her own mouth, but far worse than her words were actions: She was part of the congress that actually AUTHORIZED the war.

by greenboy 2008-06-18 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Why do Hillary fans keep trashing Russert

I've been saying this very thing throughout this diary without a reply from the assholes who talk shit about a dead man on the day of his funeral.

Hillary is obviously above criticism.

by yungblakman 2008-06-18 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead,

It's called propaganda--what is it about that word you do not understand?? the Clintons are not the topic here--russert, the propagandist  is.

by linfar 2008-06-18 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead,

If you're talking about the war, I'm afraid they are the topic.  Did Hillary vote for AUMF because she got duped watching Meet the Press?  There's propaganda, and then there's policy.

by redwoodsummer 2008-06-18 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

At least wait until the day after they bury him. That would show some class.

by IowaMike 2008-06-18 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

I said this earlier-- I didn't know today was his memorial.  He died a week ago. And I gave it a week. Now the eulogizing is so blatantly false and misleading someone has to speak up and say,Russert was the chief Iraq War Propagandist. For YEARS!!

by linfar 2008-06-18 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda

may be if you would start to crawl out of the shroud of hate of everything not Clinton, you would know what day it was.

BTW, didn't he die on Friday? That would be 5 days, not a week make.

by IowaMike 2008-06-18 07:17PM | 0 recs
Tim Russert was buried today.

Tim Russert, a formidable and well respected journalist, who tried his best, often succeeding, but sometimes coming up short of his own standards, was buried today in front of grieving family and many friends and colleagues. It can be said that he was among the best at his particular niche, and brought information to many of us that would have remained unknown otherwise. He certainly was very successful, and respected and admired by many.

The diarist, a journalist of much lesser credentials and reputation, saw fit to write this diary on the day of his funeral.

Is there really anything else to say about it?

by Travis Stark 2008-06-18 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert was buried today.

There are a lot of other funerals going on today in iraq and here at home that nobody will write about or even care about. Instead the same media that brought us the drumbeat for war in Iraq is mourning the loss of their chief cheerleader.

by linfar 2008-06-18 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert was buried today.

Really? Chief cheerleader? I would have thought maybe that would be Judy Miller or someone on Fox. Maybe your arguments are valid. Maybe they're not. He died Friday. He was buried today. For whatever his faults on any given issue, it was probably outweighed by far by the good he did as a journalist.

Class would have been to not publish this, since it achieves little. Class would have been to take it down when you found out his service was today, and maybe republish in a month or so. Class would have been to admit assinine timing at the very least.

There's no class in this diary.

by Travis Stark 2008-06-18 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Interesting.

I was not aware of some of this.  Did you mention the Clinton-Lazio debate in which Russert led off by asking Clinton if she wanted to "apologize for misleading the nation in the run-up to the impeachment of the President?"  What kind of moderator would start off a debate in that way, with such a loaded question?  A bad moderator, I guess.  

It's shocking when someone so young and apparently healthy dies; maybe that explains the prolonged and public media mourning that is occuring.  It sounds like he was a decent man, beloved by his family and colleagues, which is important.  But the Giant of American Journalism that the media is portraying is not the Tim Russert I'm familiar with.  

by half nelson 2008-06-18 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Interesting.

Exactly, half nelson. It is like watching the media spin everyone all Over again.

by linfar 2008-06-18 05:14PM | 0 recs
Re:They're in denial, it seems.

The MSM has failed monumentally over the past decade, and people like Russert led the race to the bottom.  Did you ever think you'd have to tune in to Comedy Central for honest reporting and analysis?  

by half nelson 2008-06-18 06:02PM | 0 recs
Though I think this diary was inartfully written

, as I mention above, I don't agree that it is "dancing on Russert's grave."  Different people have different opinions on how long you should wait, and while a day after someone's death is pretty clearly inappropriate, this diary is probably in a grey area.

Also, I haven't really watched MTP, so Linfar's evidence against Russert seems compelling at first glance to me.  Can the people who say Linfar is cherry-picking please provide some examples of how Russert did, in fact, question the administration before the war?  In my opinion, the entire msm failed miserably, so just saying that Russert was no worse than the rest of the media does not really refute Linfar's point.

by ashriver 2008-06-18 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Though I think this diary

Thanks ashriver--Russert was a chief cheerleader. but  you are the first person to say they find the research compelling. Everyone else is too busy with their opinion

by linfar 2008-06-18 05:37PM | 0 recs
What?? Tim Russert? Is he sick?

What's the story on that?  I've had my head up my ass for a whole week and been out of touch.

Also, any news on Natalee Holloway?

Here's hoping Tim Russert gets better.

by Dumbo 2008-06-18 05:48PM | 0 recs
Send my regards also

and BTW, what's with this Cyd Charisse bullshit?  Do you realize that she got a star billing for Singin' in the Rain without having had a SINGLE LINE? Where's the justice in that??? Yet another example of MSM OBIT SUPPRESSION!

by redwoodsummer 2008-06-18 05:59PM | 0 recs
Thanks for the excellent diary


Thanks for reminding me why I stopped watching meet the press all those years ago. I guess I even got a bit caught up in the sadness of such a sudden death for such a young man. I am sad for his family and friends, but it is important that we do not elevate folks just because they died.

I watched the right do this with Reagan, and I was astonished at the ease it took to brainwash people into thinking Reagan was a great president. Most journalists seem to buy into this without a second thought, just as I have heard the chorus call the Clinton's liars and dredge up all the BS scandals constantly.

It seems incredible that the absolutely criminal administrations of Nixon, Reagan and Bush Jr. get an almost total pass, while we spent 50+ million investigating whitewater and a blow job. Which one of those charges held up in the end? And who does the 'propaganda' job for the republicans? You nailed it Linfar. Well done. I would love to see as thorough an examination of other major media figures. There are very many that annoy me very much.

How do we stop them from doing this to Obama? I think the stop the smears is a good start, but my guess is that we need to hit the media where they live. In their egos. Why not humiliate some of these hypocrites? Expose their complicity in the Iraq debacle and their complicity in any other bullshit they try to put over on us.

by Hollede 2008-06-18 11:15PM | 0 recs


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