Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [SAT Update]

Update 3--Before you jump into the diary, read Robert Kennedy Jr's statement:
It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.

The night Bobby Kennedy was assassinated I was sitting behind a metal desk in downtown Los Angeles covering all the election news for City News Service of Los Angeles. CNS was  a little wire service but one that fed all the big dogs including the AP.

My boss was a hard boiled, tough guy named Chuck Riley who frankly scared the shit out of me, and I felt as if I were chained to a tiger for the evening.

I think it was about 9 p.m. when some one called to say that Bobby had been shot. Chuck turned white.  He took his cigar out of his mouth, shook his head angrily and then barked at whoever was on the other end to stop kidding around.

After he hung up he looked over at me which was easy as our desks were opposite each other and  so of course there was nothing to do but look back. Both of us were wide eyed with disbelief and for a few seconds we just stared at each other. "Someone got mixed up," he said. "It couldn't have happened again!" I nodded at him. He looked away and I remember feeling relieved to no longer be stuck in his stare down, but I also remember thinking, "Please, God. Let that be right."

We were wrong, of course. And  I never went home that night. We covered "the story" all night long, white faced, somber, half the time not knowing which Kennedy we were writing about; the old hurt and the new intermingling, bloody and sore and unbelievable.

Apart from 9/11 it was the most awful night of my life.

And I am sure it was for Hillary Clinton as well.

This jumping on statements as innocent as referencing the fact that Bobby was shot and so the voting went on is Exactly like jumping on her referencing LBJ in relation to MLK's legacy. It is gotcha politics!!

It is right out of the Karl Rove bag of tricks. And I am calling on all Democrats to cease and desist Right Now. Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.

Hillary or one of her supporters makes a perfectly harmless remark but it has Potential to be misconstrued. And so it is. Pounce time.

This is the stuff that makes it so hard to like this guy. It is dirty. It is swift-boating, and it is damn well not okay. But more than anything else it is using the painful memory of  an aweful event in American history to advance his political agenda.

STOP!! NOW!! Senator Obama. I have had it, and so have all good Democrats. You do not twist an innocent comment and step over  the grave of a martyred American hero to give your opponent a black eye.

And if anyone dares to suggest that this is what Hillary was doing,  give it the hell up.

What Hillary was doing was asking people to remember other times that the voting has gone on--for whatever reason. That is all. And she has the decency under the circumstances now facing the Kennedy family to apologize for being swiftboated so that no further pain or slight can reach them.

Damn. That is what is Presidential here.

Update 1-- A statement from the Argus Leader, the South Dakota Newspaper where Hillary made her remarks:
The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself.
Update 2--There can be no doubt who swiftboated Clinton for her remarks. It was the Obama campaign in the form of Obama spokesman, Bill Burton who said:
Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.

Tags: Barack Obama, Bobby Kennedy, CNS, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Comments

319 Comments

Re: The Night The Music Died

"And I am calling on all Democrats to cease and desist Right Now....

then........

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with"

Maybe you should start with yourself?

by reggie23 2008-05-23 03:03PM | 0 recs
introspection would be required

Is that even possible for someone able to write the above diary?

Nothing is above exploitation with these supporters.
Nothing is off limits because they subscribe to the theory that says the republicans would do it so so should we.

You are asking a leopard to change its spots.

Ban these losers and let them write in the obscurity they deserve.

How long will jerome let these people stay just to drive up hits to his sitemeter?

How long will jerome subsidize these ideas for a few extra advertising bucks?

by ameridad 2008-05-23 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: introspection would be required

Yeah, Jerome's a businessman.  I guarantee you that this site has never been more popular than it has been for the last few months. It's actually a good business model for the short term.  Unfortunate but true.  We''ll see what happens to MyDD after the nomination.  I will be an interested onlooker.  

by reggie23 2008-05-23 03:33PM | 0 recs
it can only be for a short term.

Part of the allure is the juxtaposition of promoted insanity on a progressive blog.

Once it becomes clear that the blog isn't any longer progressive, it will get lumped into the fox/drudge bookmark cycle.

And there it will languish with about as much name recognition as credibility in its new demographic.

by ameridad 2008-05-23 03:41PM | 0 recs
Extremely unprofessional

It bothers me how few people are calling Obama's campaign on this. His election isn't a done deal. We can still change our minds, and elect somebody who has common sense.

by architek 2008-05-23 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Extremely unprofessional

It's a done deal now.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-23 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Extremely unprofessional

Calling them on what?  They have said as little as possible, and have absolutely not piled on.  Obama didn't mention it at all at his rally.

by interestedbystander 2008-05-23 11:09PM | 0 recs
Re: introspection would be required

business model?  it will become a site where people exchange brownie recipes.  Jerome will be posting ads for Sara Lee and Duncan Hines.  

by SovSov 2008-05-23 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: introspection would be required

So let me get this strait, Clinton says something stupid and the diarist is calling out Obama?

by anujtron 2008-05-23 05:46PM | 0 recs
Hillary made the same kind of gaffe

she was hoping Obama would make.

This just shows Hillary is not ready for prime time.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-23 03:22PM | 0 recs
Don't Hold Your Breath...

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-05-23 03:48PM | 0 recs
The house of cards is crumbling.

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-05-23 03:55PM | 0 recs
so by your standards, what are we to make of

Michele's own words?

"I don't lose sleep over it because the realities are that . . . as a black man . . . Barack can get shot going to the gas station," Michelle Obama said in the interview, set to air Sunday night. "You can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen."

by suzieg 2008-05-23 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: so by your standards, what are we to make of

Michelle Obama was answering a question about a voter's concern over her husband's welfare.

Hillary brought up the assassination comparison on her own, un-prompted and apropos to nothing.

by BrighidG 2008-05-23 09:44PM | 0 recs
Yeah

Unfortunately, "gotcha politics" became far game when your candidate and her supporters decided "Bitter" "Reverend Wright", and the time Obama scratched his face and inspired a week and a half of debate on whether or not he was secretly giving the bird to Clinton on national TV were important issues relating to Obama's electability.

Is the statement malicious?  No.  Is it stupid?  Yes.  And as far as stupid statements influencing the race goes, you guys have made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-23 03:04PM | 0 recs
that doesn't even scratch the surface

► ABC Debate: Willam Ayers/Farrakhan

► "he snubbed me" at the SOTU

► "he gave me the finger"

► implying he's sexist, especially though Ferraro.

It's okay, when Clinton is driving the swiftboat.

by Al Rodgers 2008-05-23 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

Sure is.  Obama paid the price for trying to run a civil campaign.  But won anyway.

Now, let's watch the Clinton people grab and scrap for the lifeline he tried to throw them months ago by trying to avoid a campaign like this.  Only thing is it's too late now.  That ship has sailed.

You make your bed, you lie in it.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-05-23 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

Hillary's not responsible for pushing any of those stories.  She was asked about the first at the debate, but she has never brought up snubgate or fingergate (which never really happened if you look all the tapes) and she's never accused him of being sexist.

Nobody--Hillary or Barack--has been or is being swif-boated here.  She stuck her foot in her mouth, so the media are going to replay it over and over again, and her political opponents are going to rake her over the coals for it.  That's the nature of our politics today.

by psychodrew 2008-05-23 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

Mojo for the most level-headed response I think I've ever seen on this site.

by asherrem 2008-05-23 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

She really, really pushed the "bitter" story, you must admit that. And that too was just an unfortunate choice of words for a sentiment both she and Bill and echoed in other circumstances.

Should Obama avoid behaving the same way toward an obvious gaffe? Of course he should.

by rhetoricus 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

I thought Obama was about moving beyond the politics of distraction.

by psychodrew 2008-05-23 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

"I thought Obama was about moving beyond the politics of distraction."

Referencing a candidate's assassination as a reason for staying in the race, when someone has been threatened as often as Obama has is pretty damned distracting, but Obama STILL was too classy to jump on her statement. Too bad it is unilateral classiness.

by rhetoricus 2008-05-23 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

I didn't see it as "an unfortunate choice of words." I saw it as an unfortunate point of view about people he does not know. I saw it as an unfortunate attempt at sounding psychologically sophisticated in front of the SF money crowd. I saw it as unfortunate that America got to see the real Obama after he swept all of those caucus states. I wonder if Wyoming still would have gone for him after realizing he had no clue about the composition of most of America.

Yes, I am a liberal. A big one. But I'm pragmatic enough to realize that liberals are the minority and if we really want change, we have to appeal to centrists. That Obama didn't know that is unbelievable. He deserved to take whatever he got for that "unfortunate" comment.

by SophieL 2008-05-23 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

He deserved to take whatever he got for that "unfortunate" comment.

Perhaps you also think that Hillary's "screw the working class, Bill" comment (confirmed by 3 different sources and documented in a book written in 2001 by a campaign aide) should have been broadcast all over creation? Too bad Obama was too classy for that ploy.

You know DAMN well what Obama was trying to say when he said working class voters are bitter and don't trust government to solve their problems, and so vote social issues and gun issues instead. Bill Clinton has made almost identical comments.

In any event, your candidate's negatives went even higher after she pushed the "bitter" meme, and now she's lost, and Obama won. So I guess they both got what was coming to them. And now that we know how forgiving you are about a candidate's gaffes and giving them the benefit of the doubt..I suppose I could take your tack, and say, "I don't hear it as a gaffe, she must have MEANT that she's hoping for an assassination, so she can step in. Disgusting! She deserves whatever she gets for having said it.." But it's not what Obama would want.

by rhetoricus 2008-05-23 10:47PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

The difference between Bill Clinton's "almost identical comments" is that Bill made them standing on even ground with "the bitter people," not looking down on them, but from a real empathetic place. Bill's "I feel your pain" is different from Obama's "I see your pain." Again, it wasn't exactly what he said, but how he said it that revealed the most about his inner thinking. Very unattractive. Earned him the label of elitist, though most Obama supporters tried to respin that as an economic thing.

And you can call it negative if you want, but I liked that Hillary pounded him with that one with a figurative, "Who the F are you to say that?" Only an Obama supporter would find her rallying working class people as a negative!

Obama really does not get middle America. Over the years, Hillary has made it a point to educate herself. Obama could use a few more years of education.

by SophieL 2008-05-24 06:10AM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

"Screw the working class, Bill."

by brathor 2008-05-24 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

If you want to think that Barack Obama is looking down on people, you will.

"He deserved what he got" sounds a lot like you REALLY want to believe it.

by Jess81 2008-05-24 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

First Obama psychoanalyzing people he doesn't know and doesn't intend to know. And now you, thinking you know me and how I believe. I don't WANT to believe he's arrogant and cocky. He BEHAVES in an arrogant manner. I am not the only one who has noticed this. When you think you're better than people, you start psychoanalizing them in public and you minimize their lives.

When I say he got what he deserved, I meant you reap what you sow. He didn't get pulverized. He got was called out on it. If he thinks that's unfair because he can't answer for what he believes (and repeatedly, he can't), don't give me excuses or blame Hillary (well, she said this first, or she did that in 2000).

by SophieL 2008-05-24 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

Yu go Sophie, good to see yu here.

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

However, Clinton is entirely responsible for the words that come out of her mouth.  On 60 Minutes, she used exquisitely parsed her words to equivocate on the question of Obama's faith.  Then, today, when she could have cited 1980 or 1984, she actually offered the example of a presumptive nominee being assassinated.  

I have always agreed with Clinton's supporters that she is extremely smart and disciplined.  I just don't forget it when she does something like this.  This was no accident.  This was despicable.

by deminva 2008-05-23 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

Of course it wasn't an accident.  She said this in some different form on four different occasions.  You are reading into it that Hillary used the assassination to stir up bad memories for political gain.  What political gain she would possibly get from that is beyond me.  That alone should indicate that your interpretation is wrong.

But you come from the perspective that Hillary is an evil human being and you are interpreting those comments from that prism.  In politics that is to be expected.  Also expected is that you jump on the opportunity to climb on your high horse and beat her over the head.  She said it.  She handed you the opportunity.  She is taking a whipping for it.  That's the way it is.

My experience is that when people feel morally justified in attacking someone, they can't be reasoned with.  So I won't stop you.  Enjoy your evening of self-righteous indignation!

by psychodrew 2008-05-23 06:12PM | 0 recs
I'll bet McCain's happy

No one will be talking about his Pastor problems.  It will be all Hillary all the time.  There's been another outbreak of killer tornados in Kansas tonight (an entire town was wiped out) - but that news was pushed aside to replay what Clinton said.  Talking heads had to speculate on whether or not she wishes harm to come to Senator Obama.  It's insane.

And it is politics today.  Once Clinton's out of the way - the media will focus on taking down Obama.  Sharks must feed.  I hardly listen any more.  I read newspapers online.  There's less hyperbole and more actual news.

by The Fat Lady Sings 2008-05-23 09:43PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

She didn't say any of those things nor did she imply them.  But that doesn't matter to the Boyz of Kos, does it?  You who can't get an argument going in your natural habitat and have come here trying to turn this site as hateful as the rotten Orage.  Well, I think you're succeeding.  And that's sad.

by Tolstoy 2008-05-23 04:15PM | 0 recs
You can take that 'boyz' garbage elsewhere.

by Shem 2008-05-23 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: You can take that 'boyz' garbage elsewhere.

keep showing how weak and desperate you are

by zerosumgame 2008-05-23 05:00PM | 0 recs
Weak and desperate?

You're joking, right?  Because last time I checked it was the candidate you're supporting subtly hinting that she's hanging in there in case her opponent gets taken out.

Us?  We're chilling, realizing we've been wrong to try to push her out.  Girlfriend is tryin to go down in a big old flaming ball of crazy.

by lollydee 2008-05-23 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Weak and desperate?

Hillary wasn't suggesting anything.  To use Hillary's words, "as far as I know."  

by kellogg 2008-05-23 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: that doesn't even scratch the surface

How about all of the SC campaign? That's when I realized my worst fears were true and jumped ship.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-23 08:52PM | 0 recs
Hear, hear!

  You're lately come to wisdom, linfar. I just went and read some of your past posts, and you seem to have had no problem, til tonight, with beating Obama over the head with every stupid thing he's said the last 15 months. Lemme see if I have this straight-

Hurts Obama = Tough, but fair, political smashmouth
 Hurts Clinton = Vile, disgusting, sexist, un-american woman-hating.

Do I have that about right? The karmic wheel turns slowly, linfar, but it does indeed turn...

Obama 08

by Kordo 2008-05-23 06:27PM | 0 recs
The diarist who compared Obama to Wallace

has no ground for complaining to ANYONE about being unfair.  

by fladem 2008-05-24 06:39AM | 0 recs
But It's okay if Hillary is driving the swiftboat

you should apologies and move on.

by Al Rodgers 2008-05-23 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Obama had nothing to do with this.  Quit trying to turn this into a backhanded attack.

by rfahey22 2008-05-23 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Well, Obama planted a little microchip in Hillary's head that allows him to temporarily control her mind, so she only said because Barack Obama made her do it.

For shame, Senator! I denounce and reject.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-23 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

he did. His campaign issued a statement. You would have a point if his campaign had ignored it.

by Ga6thDem 2008-05-24 04:35AM | 0 recs
RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

keep these trolls in check please!

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-23 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

Are you kidding me? Anyone who thinks that this is beyond the pale is now a troll?

Are you insane?

This is the end of the line for her campaign. It is over. We wash our hands of this now. The only apology acceptable at this point would include an endorsement for Senator Obama. It is probably too much to ask her to resign her Senate seat but I think it needs to be done.

Any Democrat, ANY Democrat, who defends this at this point can no longer claim to be a progressive, can no longer claim to be a Democrat.

What Hillary said today was beyond the pale and beyond unacceptable and if there remain any Hillary supporters at this point they should hide their heads in shame.

by denniswine 2008-05-23 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

I think the trolls he was referring to are the spam diarists who post junk like this and get rec'ed by people who don't even participate in the comments.

by chicagovigilante 2008-05-23 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

I agree with something you said.  Given that her candidacy has already failed, and this remark will just leave a sour taste in people's mouths right when she needs a dignified exit, I think there's a really classy and smooth way to put this behind her.  She could say:

"I'm deeply sorry that my comment mentioned political assassination in anything approaching a casual way.  Violence has been a horrific part of our national history.  Too often our greatest leaders have paid the ultimate price for their service to our country.  We become especially aware of this history, and anxious about it, when we recognize an emerging leader for our great nation.

"There can be no question of my deep respect for Barack Obama as a great leader.  There can be no question of my loyalty to him and to all my fellow members of the Democratic party.  There can be no question of my horror at the possibility of any political violence ever again.  I understand that my clumsy comment may have raised a question about this for some people, and for that I profoundly apologize.  As a show of my profound commitment, I hereby suspend my presidential campaign so that I may campaign for the next President of the United States of America, Barack Obama."

Anyone?

by Matt Smith 2008-05-23 05:38PM | 0 recs
Re: RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

We can dream I suppose.  I still see this continuing to Snowball all the way to Denver.  I predict a mess.

by brathor 2008-05-24 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: RESPECTABLE CLINTON SUPPORTERS

When the so-called "trolls" vastly outnumber you, it may be time to look in the mirror and ask yourself: Who, truly, is out of the mainstream?

by Rationalisto 2008-05-23 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Wow, you are clinically insane.

by kasjogren 2008-05-23 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Stupidity does not qualify as a handicap, park elsewhere!

by gunner 2008-05-23 03:28PM | 0 recs
Can sombody dig up and old Linfar

diary and laugh at her hipocrisy?

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-23 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Can sombody dig up and old Linfar

Did up an old diary? - The diary itself oozes of hypocrisy.  

by reggie23 2008-05-23 03:13PM | 0 recs
Why linfar has even less credibility than

TexasDarlin:

http://linfar.mydd.com/story/2008/5/21/1 42558/911 -saying that Obama wants to be kin
http://linfar.mydd.com/story/2008/5/16/1 6229/8619 -defending George W. Bush for calling Obama an appeaser
http://linfar.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1 25945/518 -calling John Edwards a traitor
http://linfar.mydd.com/story/2008/4/29/1 31920/436 -insisting the gas tax holiday is a good thing

I could go back further but what is the point.

by Student Guy 2008-05-23 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Why linfar has even less credibility than

At least TexasDarlin and alegre hang out in their own diaries--I think they still believe.  Lin's just going through the motions: she drops a half-hearted diary, toodles over to His44 to beg for Rec support, and then stonewalls.

I think her heart's not in it anymore.

by Koan 2008-05-23 03:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Why linfar has even less credibility than

I kind of wish linfar would have let alegre cover this subject matter.  I was looking forward to allusions of "trembling...with...rage" and this just doesn't deliver imo.

by 79blondini 2008-05-23 05:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Why linfar has even less credibility than

Don't forget her typical white people diary - you know, the one she was banned for.  It was deleted here, but is still available at savage politics.

Tell me linfar - are you still wearing your typical white people T shirt?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-23 11:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I was wondering how a Clinton supporter would spin her apology to the Kennedys--since an apology certainly implies that the statement was, at best, tone deaf.

to apologize for being swiftboated

Lin Farley, gongg!  Nice job!  That's what she was apologizing for!

You're through the lookingglass.

by Koan 2008-05-23 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

In this instance, the only person "swiftboating" Hillary is Hillary herself.  She needs to make sure she gets enough sleep so she doesn't misspeak in such a manner.

Like you, my parents were both heavily involved in RFK's California and Los Angeles campaign -- they were driving home from the party the night he was shot.  Neither of them, especially my mother, have ever gotten over it.  Neither of them can speak of Robert Kennedy without their voices straining.

His assasination not something to be mentioned innocently in connection with the idea of another democratic candidate.

Someone of her generation (Hillary is only two years younger than my mother) should know that.  If she's too tired to realize the implications of her words, she should get some sleep and not be talking to reporters.  

You've worked as a reporter.  You know everything any candidate for President, let alone any President says can be misconsrued.  That's why they're supposed to choose their words carefully.  

Hillary didn't today.  Her lack of care made her her own worse enemy.  Even in context this comment sounds bad.  Out of context it sounds even worse.

by mijita 2008-05-23 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Hillary Clinton issued the following statement today in Brandon, SD:
 
"Earlier today I was discussing the Democratic primary history and in the course of that discussion mentioned the campaigns that both my husband and Senator Kennedy waged in California in June 1992 and 1968 and I was referencing those to make the point that we have had nomination primary contests that go into June. That's a historic fact. The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy and I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation, and particularly for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that, whatsoever. My view is that we have to look to the past and to our leaders who have inspired us and give us a lot to live up to, and I'm honored to hold Senator Kennedy's seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the entire Kennedy family."
 
 
Transcript from the Argus-Leader's editorial board meeting:
 
HRC: People have been trying to push me out of this ever since Iowa .
 
Q: Why?
 
HRC: I don't know. I don't know. I find it curious. Because it is unprecedented in history. I don't understand it. Between my opponent and his camp and some in the media there has been this urgency to end this. And historically, that makes no sense.  So I find it a bit of a mystery.

Q: So you don't buy the party unity argument?

HRC: I don't because again I've been around long enough.
My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?
We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California . I don't understand it. There's lots of speculation about why it is.
 
Q: What is your speculation?
I don't know. I find it curious. And I don't want to attribute motives or strategies to people because I don't really know, but it's a historical curiosity to me.

###
 

So, why is she the only candidate in history to be threatened that if she doesn't give up and go away she'll ruin Barack's chances and if he loses it'll be because she wants him to?  Do you know?  

by anna shane 2008-05-23 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Define threatened?  Cause she is certainly not the first person to be told that once you have no chance of winning you should probably give up.  And if she wasn't a 100x millionaire she would have been forced to give up since her campaign isn't financially viable.

I realize you are invested in this campaign in multiple ways but trying to make a martyr where none exist doesn't work.

by kasjogren 2008-05-23 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Oh and BTW you only have to look at 72, 80, and 88 to realize that when someone who can't win draws out the fight because "they can" it never leads to us winning.

by kasjogren 2008-05-23 03:47PM | 0 recs
If she goes to sleep,

who's going to get the phone at 3 a.m.?

by bookish 2008-05-23 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I don't think she meant anything vile - I think it was a mistake.

I also don't think this diary helps much by offering sentences like this one: "the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with."

by TL 2008-05-23 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

her big mistake was to not know that if she says anything that can be taken two ways and one of them is vile and ugly, that they vile and ugly one will be assumed true of her and she'll be smeared by those who 'know' her evil heart.  When you're vulnerable you can't speak when you're tired, you can make a point no one wants you to make, and you sure can't reference anything that the media and certain Barack supporters can claim that it's about him.  Hillary can never expect to be listened to and given the benefit of thinking about herself and not always about her rival.  That's the way it is, she can't speak off the cuff at all, she must go back to being scripted?  With friends like fellow Democrats she hardly needs pugs.  

by anna shane 2008-05-23 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

It is kind of like she is Jesus and we are all the Romans isn't it?

Oooooor, she made a stupid, unintentional gaffe and in this era of 24/7 news it is what they will be talking about all weekend.  She slipped up, not unlike countless gaffes that Obama and McCain have made and will continue to make over the course of the next few months while they battle it out.  There is really no need to blow it out of proportion.

by kasjogren 2008-05-23 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Unintentional gaffe?  Not a chance.  She made almost the same statement less than a month ago, as well as other similar versions twice since.  This was not a slip of the tongue, it was a practiced talking point.

And I'm sorry, all of the "timeline" spin notwithstanding, there is simply no way to view that statement other that "I'm staying in because Obama might get killed like Bobby Kennedy was."

It was inexcusable, and an apology to the Kennedy family misses the point altogether.

by rb608 2008-05-24 02:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I'm not sure why this was offered as a response to my comment.  

For what it's worth, I'm an Obama supporter.  Some people flew of the handle, but a lot of us didn't.

Please don't overplay the victim card.  

by TL 2008-05-23 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

There's no mistake - she obviously referred to a time specific of events - period!

by suzieg 2008-05-23 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Well she's wrong on that front, since the Kennedy campaign began in May, not January.

But when you casually drag in political assassination, don't be surprised when that becomes the focus of the statement.

by Jess81 2008-05-24 08:34AM | 0 recs
You have no crediblity here
Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.

Unless you can show where Obama did this, it seems the only person using the memory of Bobby for political gain is you.
by map 2008-05-23 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: You have no crediblity here

Good point.

And I'll be waiting for that iron-clad evidence that Clinton was threatening Obama when she talked about RFK's assassination.

by wilder 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Right.

You'll be waiting for some time, because there is absolutely no one here who is making that claim.

by kyle in philly 2008-05-23 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Right.

I guess you haven't been reading the comments.

It's true that she didn't threaten him, but plenty here apparently believe that she is deliberately planting the thought into some whackjob's mind ("Omigod, she's said it once before!").

by wilder 2008-05-23 05:24PM | 0 recs
You're going to need a link here.

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.

Evidence or retraction.  Hop to it.

by mistersite 2008-05-23 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: You're going to need a link here.

retraction?

Are you becoming as delusional as the diarist?

The whole point of the soppy bullshit was to slip that line in hoping the hillbots were too weepy to notice its lack of supporting argument or evidence.

by ameridad 2008-05-23 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Why do Obama supporters turned into crazed Donald Ducks over every little thing? Why does Obama lie about everything?

No, no
Nobama

No, no
Nobama

No, no
Nobama, NO!

by Nobama 2008-05-23 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Congratulations...you are a fucking moron.

by kasjogren 2008-05-23 03:52PM | 0 recs
You can hope
But don't bet on it.
She REALLY shoved her foot deep into her mouth with this one. Nobody who's backing Obama is going to blame HIM for this.
You people really are becoming seriously delusional.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-24 10:34AM | 0 recs
Who needs to go to the trouble?

She's swiftboating herself.  

by zizzybalubah 2008-05-23 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

STOP!! NOW!! Senator Obama. I have had it, and so have all good Democrats. You do not twist an innocent comment and step over  the grave of a martyred American hero to give your opponent a black eye.

There are times when I am here and feel like it's an alternate universe.  In reading the above comment from the diary, I got that feeling again.  

Sen. Clinton makes what at best is a insensitive and stupid comment and at worst..well I don't want to think about that.  

And you blame Sen. Obama?  

Please, please support your comment above.  Share one single comment he made that supports the assertion you make above.  

Obama did the smart thing and kept out of this, Sen. Clinton is doing fine on her own.  

by nextgen 2008-05-23 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Yeah this is all Obama's fault. Right.

Honestly, any Clinton supporter who is planning on writing a diary that says anything but: "I don't think she meant it that way, give her a break", I would probably recommend going on a run.

After the initial shock wears away, everyone will realize this is nothing but a dumb gaffe.  To try to blame Obama for this hurts your candidate and any point you will make in the future.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-23 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

This is the stuff that makes it so hard to like this guy. It is dirty. It is swift-boating, and it is damn well not okay. But more than anything else it is using the painful memory of  an aweful event in American history to advance his political agenda.

STOP!! NOW!! Senator Obama. I have had it, and so have all good Democrats. You do not twist an innocent comment and step over  the grave of a martyred American hero to give your opponent a black eye.

Crazy, insane rant.  

by Becky G 2008-05-23 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

This is where Clinton's spinning about "anything can happen" has come back to bite her, hard.  

Because she's said about a million times that she is staying in this race because who knows, anything can happen, that's the context in which people intuitively understood her statement.  

Is that a misinterpretation?  Sort of.  I do think she was talking about the length of primaries in that interview.  But, let's tease her statement a bit by asking a follow-up question.  

The interviewer could have responded, "The difference with Bobby Kennedy is that the race really had not been decided yet until June, when he won California.  On the other hand, there is realistically very little chance you have of winning the nomination.  So why continue?"

And what is Hillary going to say now?  Well, that anything could happen.

And then the interviewer can ask this question, "Like what?  An assassination?"  

And how is Hillary going to respond, after she just raised Bobby Kennedy's campaign going on into June and his subsequent assassination?  

by ProfessorReo 2008-05-23 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

At best Hillary has proven that she is in no way capable of campaigning for much less serving as president.  If she's too tired now to not insinuate the assasination of her opponent (and sound gleefull about it at that) How can we trust her to answer the phone at 3am?  How can we trust her to not fuck up on this level when running against Mccain?

At worst she has just shown what kind of deplorable amoral person she is.  

This has been a long and telling campaign.  One thing it has certainly told us is that Hillary does not deserve the benefit of the doubt  Bitch needs to get out!

by SheriffChris 2008-05-23 03:27PM | 0 recs
Hillary communicating as an ADULT, to adults..

You know, Hillary was trying to communicate like an adult and the immature response was the response typical of children.

Why don't you give your spin campaign a break.

by architek 2008-05-23 07:56PM | 0 recs
I hope this will allow you to be more empathetic

When BHO or someone who supports him says something unfortunate I hope you will remember the golden rule. I am certain HRC didn't mean to sound like a carrion eater of some sort but she did. By the same standard calling a female reporter'Sweetie' wasn't meant to oppress or humiliate,but it could be understood as dismissive. BHO isn't the Messiah and HRC isn't Harriet Tubman. Over this long slog of a campaign they have both "stepped in it". The more you talk the more chamces you have to say something stupid. HRC said something stupid.

by Ida B 2008-05-23 03:28PM | 0 recs
What, no tip jar?

Yet another drive-by diary by someone with no respect for the Democratic nominee.

I'm tired of calling these sort of diarists "Clinton supporters" because that includes them with the group of reasonable people that is most Clinton supporters. Diarists that post drivel like this are simply trolls.

by chicagovigilante 2008-05-23 03:30PM | 0 recs
I wonder when the Hillaryis44 gang will come

to rec this, they include:
Boston Whaler
the racist dot48
the 'infamous' basil9
Ronald
birdgal
1950sdemocrat (who changed their handle on His44 to turn-downobama.com)

maybe some new superfriends will come like
SONIA4HILLARY-who uses a lot of bold
Universal-the "super-genius"
dija
and all of the rest

It would be a grand old time...

by Student Guy 2008-05-23 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: I wonder when the Hillaryis44 gang will come

Upthread from linfar's call to the troops on His44 was this gem of a comment from "Blue Democrat":

MSNBC makes sure they have homo-boy Chris Cillizza & their `independent' nubian queen house pet on to both blasting her for what a horrific thing it was to say.
Clyburn undoubtedly will be rearing his ugly head. Fuck'em all!

Yeah, "homo"... "nubian queen house pet"... that's a Democrat talkin'!

by The Red Pen 2008-05-24 06:02AM | 0 recs
WTF Does This Mean??

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.

Please provide links or quotes to back up this vicious claim...

by hootie4170 2008-05-23 03:35PM | 0 recs
Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

As a presidential nominee, especially a trailblazer, you have to be careful with everything you say.  Just as Obama's "bitter" comments were parsed, this statement will be too.  She should've picked a better example, b/c the first thing I thought when she said it was "What the fuck Hillary?."

by venavena 2008-05-23 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

You're arguing that Barack Obama is using Bobby Kennedy here for political gain?  That is insane. I never swear, but this merits it.  This is fucking horrible.

by Pat Flatley 2008-05-23 03:36PM | 0 recs
She seems to be

switfboating herself

no?

by obsessed 2008-05-23 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I think the comment is being blown out of proportion, but y attack obama. Axelrod publicly came out and sided with hillary. It was a stupid comment, u do see y it was an error in judgment to make that comparison right.  

by gatti1 2008-05-23 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

It would seem as if she is doing a fine job of swiftboating herself.  No outside help needed.

by Sauceman 2008-05-23 03:48PM | 0 recs
Swiftboaters make shit up

Hillary did this to herself.  You couldn't make this kind of stuff up!

by rf7777 2008-05-23 03:49PM | 0 recs
What goes around comes around

Hillary supporters overkilled some of Wright's statements and Obama's reaction to it.

Well how does it feel now?

FWIW, I think Hillary made a stupid ass statement just to find some justificagtion for staying in when she didn't need to cite RFK assassination. She has every right to stay in the race and what I think was going on in her mind was to capitalize on a big name thing in her attempt to fortify her argument to stay in the race when it 3was not needed.

by Pravin 2008-05-23 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: What goes around comes around

Sorry, but Wright controversy was a legitimate one--it certainly became a legitimate one once he began speaking to the national media in the way he did.  Yes, legitimate questions were being asked:  Do Obama's beliefs correspond with his pastor's or not?  Why did he choose him as a spiritual advisor/mentor?  The following Tuesday, Obama finally disowned Wright--and the controversy diminished considerably.

THIS is not a legitimate controversy.  THIS is impugning the character of Hillary Clinton, by making her out into an evil politician so power-hungry that she wishes for the assassination of Barack Obama--and is even willing to say so publicly.  What Hillary Clinton said today was not divisive; it was a simple gaffe that, unfortunately, carried the potential to be interpreted in the most horrible, disingenous way I have frankly seen in a long, long time.

OF course she didn't "need" to recite the RFK assassination.  She could have recited the JUNE Democratic primary contest in California.  There, is that politically correct enough for you?  She's cited the RFK assassination once before (and strange...in didn't get any attention then...) clearly because that's the most famous, notorious historical event that happened as late as the month of June in a Democratic primary.  Her legitimate argument in other words:  Just because it's June (see Bill Clinton's nomination wrap-up, or the RFK assassination) the Democratic contest is not over!  The point:  Democratic contests often carry on as late as June.

Let's hope the media now gives Hillary the same huge break they gave Barack once he tried to settle the Wright controversy.  Something tells me though, that all hope is now lost for uniting this party.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:06PM | 0 recs
sweetie gaffe

yeah, that lasted 2 weeks here and I didn't see you asking for a measured discourse.

Nice to see your intellectual dishonesty.

by Regenman 2008-05-23 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: sweetie gaffe

It depends on how you want to spin what a "measured discourse" is.  What I said above was that Wright was indeed a legitimate issue--yes, for "measured discourse".  This manufactured controversy isn't justified by any means, and you know it.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: What goes around comes around

Are the drugs that powerful out your way? He had a friend who made some controversial comments during a lesson in church. She, on the other hand offers as a rationale for her campaign of hopelessness, that Robert Kennedy was assassinated in June. Her ghoulish remark was either calculated and therefore too horrible to contemplate or just bugfuck crazy. She's unfit for the office of President in either case.

by Shiloh 2008-05-23 05:16PM | 0 recs
Totally off topic...

So you're the reason I couldn't register "Shiloh" as my user name....

...nice to meet ya :)

by asherrem 2008-05-23 05:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Totally off topic...

Pleasure to meet you, too. I took my dog's name to register here, but I may leave soon if the Hillary-thing doesn't finally stop. I want to see this site get behind the nominee and take down the neocons.

by Shiloh 2008-05-23 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Not comparable

The 1968 and 1992 Democratic primaries are simply not comparable.  In 1992, Paul Tsongas, Bill Clinton's chief rival, dropped out in March or April, so the race was politically over well before June, when Clinton mathematically clinched the nomination.  In 1968, Bobby Kennedy entered the race in May, and four weeks later was assassinated.  This race began in the first week of January, so these two primaries are hardly comparable to this year's.

by Brad G 2008-05-23 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Ummm ...

Hillary Clinton made similar comments on March 6 about why she should continue:

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

by Brad G 2008-05-23 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: What goes around comes around

Obama clearly said he did not share the controversial statements made. BUt he also made it clear that he understood what makes someone of that generation so bitter enough to say it.

by Pravin 2008-05-23 06:26PM | 0 recs
Wow.

This made the Rec.List.

PATHETIC.

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-23 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

And why do you think it made the REC list?  Care to take a guess?

How about:  Many Democrats on myDD (and elsewhere) are sick of these kind of cynical attacks coming from the supporters of a candidate who--ironically--is preaching a new kind of politics.  

How about: It is obvious that this controversy is over nothing more than a harmless gaffe.  It is obvious that Clinton does not wish death upon Barack Obama.  

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

It madethe rec list because linfar's pathetic Clinton Smear Machine friends all rec'd it.  Thank God this will be over soon enough and then they'll all get rightfully banned.

by NJIndependent 2008-05-23 04:14PM | 0 recs
Hillary was tired?

I'm tired of her using "tired" as an excuse.  Wasn't the Tuzla wacky thing b/c she was "tired."  Boy I'm tired or her being tired.

by SovSov 2008-05-23 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Trash diary please remove.

by telfishbackagain 2008-05-23 03:55PM | 0 recs
Foot In Mouth is Presidential

Only in Lin's la la land.  For an awfully experienced candidate she sure knows how to "unintentionally" push buttons.

So either she doesn't know what she's doing when she references Bobby Kennedy's assassination or she does know.

Either way, that's not comforting.

by Regenman 2008-05-23 04:00PM | 0 recs
the irony is layers thick

by heresjohnny 2008-05-23 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Sorry but there is no logical way to chalk Hillary's comment up to anything less than just kinda f***ed up & totally inappropriate.

by astronautagogo 2008-05-23 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

This is somehow Obama's fault?  His campaign is already trying to downplay it.  The last thing they need is African-Americans thinking he's going to get killed if he wins.  

I don't think she meant to imply she wanted him to die, but she needs to make a forceful apology.  The campaigns in 1984 and 1980 went all the way to the convention, there was no reason to bring up assassination.  

by bosdcla14 2008-05-23 04:02PM | 0 recs
NO ONE SWIFT-BOATED HILLARY

She did it all by herself.

by feliks 2008-05-23 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re: NO ONE SWIFT-BOATED HILLARY

Nope, you're doing this to an honorable person and a tough-as-nails candidate.  At the very least, it takes some cynicism (and outright delusion) to truly believe that this woman would wish such ill upon a fellow presidential candidate and human being.

Hillary bashing won't unify us one bit.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: NO ONE SWIFT-BOATED HILLARY

"Feliks" is doing nothing of the sort.  Nobody is doing anything.

Stop blaming everyone for what your candidate says.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

we let Obama supporters get away with too much. Why doesn't Daily Kos let Hillary supporters get away with so much as just supporting her? I say we start treating Obama supporters the same way, as they peddle more rumours and myths like they are now. You either honor the Clintons or get off.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-23 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

...

Clinton supporters already DO treat Obama the same way. What, you think dd gives him the while glove treatment? Please.

by mattw 2008-05-23 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Fingergate.

Typical white person.

"The snub".

etc.  Linfar was leading the charge through all of this.

Now, since you recced the diary, will you kindly explain how this is OBAMA's fault?

by Jess81 2008-05-23 04:14PM | 0 recs
Serial troll rating violates site rules

by itsadryheat 2008-05-23 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Serial troll rating violates site rules

You probably don't know a direct insult when you see one, huh.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 10:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

You either honor the Clintons or get off.

And yet it's Obama supporters who are supposedly the cult...

by mistersite 2008-05-23 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

OK. I'm sorry. But you are retarded.

Either that, or you're a talentless troll who hasn't mastered the fine art of propagande. It takes more than stating the most obviously stupid thing with confidence.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-23 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.

I think what Hillary said was pretty minor as far as gaffes go, but don't start blaming Obama. He doesn't need to score any points against Hillary, he has the nomination locked up and he knows it. Apparently even more than anyone knew, given the "group of 40" about to switch from Hillary.

by mattw 2008-05-23 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I'm not blaming Obama now, but I will blame Obama if he doesn't come out soon and forcefully defend Hillary Clinton from the vitriol that her simple gaffe has drawn from Obama supporters as far as my eye can see.  

This kind of hate and cynicism and taking words out of context has no place in the Democratic Party.  If Barack Obama wants to unify the country, he'll have to unify the party first--and now is a great time to begin that.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Why does he have to defend her?  Has she ever come to his defense on ANYTHING?

by Jess81 2008-05-23 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

When Bush accused him of appeasement last week in Israel.

by psychodrew 2008-05-23 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

True!  Although it was more of an attacking Bush.

I'm obviously thinking of 'typical white person', where she did nothing, and bittergate, where she drove the story.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 10:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

So Obama needs to "forcefully defend" Hillary for a statement implying he could be assassinated?  Wow.  

by NJIndependent 2008-05-23 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

No, it's YOU who is making that implication.  Watch the video again.  When you do, have an ear for something called "emphasis".

Hillary's invocation of RFK had nothing--absolutely nothing--to do with Obama.  She was using the event as an historical marker for the month of June.  Really, it's that simple.  She did not imply that Barack Obama could be assassinated.

And that's exactly what only Obama can convince you of now.  That's sad, on one level.  On another level, it's something he needs to do immediately to show his leadership.  I know he's above some of the hate and vitriol of his supporters.  (Or, I hope he is.)

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:22PM | 0 recs
twisting facts

Both Linfar and TexasDarlin are being attacked by blood-thirsty wolves here at MyDD.  Thank you for coming to Linfar's defense.  I just want to add what I already said over on TD's diary:

It's obvious that Hillary or anyone in her campaign or her supporters cannot even make factual and true historical statements about anything.  The sharks are circling and the wolves waiting to pounce, to grab whatever factual statement is made, twisting it to their own devious and selfish ends.  This indeed is the real "politics of violence".

by moevaughn 2008-05-23 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Please spare me.  Why pick 1968?

by NJIndependent 2008-05-23 05:17PM | 0 recs
That's so sexist!

She shouldn't even WANT to be defended by him, the misogynist, right?

The irony, it burns.

by lollydee 2008-05-23 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

You can not be serious ?

by chatters71 2008-05-23 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

What kind of lousy candidate needs her opponent to come out and defend her for her own stupid statement?

by mistersite 2008-05-23 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Forcefully Defend?

You gotta be kidding me!!!

"He's not a Muslim, as far as I know."

"If that had been my pastor, I'd no longer be in that church."

by LtWorf 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Forcefully Defend?

Both of these fit exactly into my point--many Obama supporters have a knack for twisting words into something they are not.

"He's not a Muslim, as far as I know."  As far as I know, Barack Obama isn't a Muslim either.  As far as everyone knows, Barack Obama isn't a Muslim.  Her addition of "as far as I know" didn't mean anything malicious at all--it's just that you wanted her statements to fit your preconceived mold of her.  

"If that had been my pastor, I'd no longer be in that church" was Hillary Clinton's reply to Bill O'Reilly in an interview in which he elicitied a response from her about Reverend Wright.  That wasn't an active political strategy or attack on her part.  That's simply...a true statement.  She was asked about Wright, and she answered the truth: she wouldn't have been in his church.  It was completely acceptable to say in the context of that interview.  

by MMR2 2008-05-23 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Forcefully Defend?

Keep spinning...and spinning and spinning...

She could have put both of those mistakes to bed and she didn't.  That is clear.

by LtWorf 2008-05-23 05:08PM | 0 recs
You are trying to change the subject...bad taste

As far as I know, Hillary does not want me to be assassinated

Think about how that would sound on the the news shows.  Think about how it would sound to have it come out of Obama's mouth.

You would absolutely have a problem with it because it leaves open the possibility that she does want Obama to be assassinated.  Her statement about his religious beliefs does the exact same thing.

Obama says he is not a Muslim.  That should be good enough for Hillary.  There are a lot of people who do believe that Obama is a Muslim and her statement does nothing to persuade them otherwise.

She's too smart a politician to not know exactly what she was doing (in the muslim and pastor incidents).  Stop treating us like we are stupid.

by you like it 2008-05-23 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Obama spokesman Bill Burton responded to Clinton's remarks. "Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign."

Obama could have done what was right, which was to immediately say the same thing that the Kennedys said... that she was obviously talking about the length of the campaign and how it compared to the length of other campaigns.  Instead, his campaign immediately attacked.  Once again, so much for the politics of unity.

Linfar is right.  This should stop.

I, too, remember that night very well.  I had just graduated high school and was getting ready for my first semester of college, which was to start in another week. (summerschool, btw)  I remember sitting on the floor in front of my aunt's tv crying.  No one of our generation remembers that night with anything except how gut-wrenched we were.  But I also remember what he said right at the end of the speech he gave.
Look for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7H0aWFW NY
He talked about going on to Chicago and winning there.  He was still campaigning on June 6th, 1968.

by mbolack 2008-05-23 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

"Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign."

Yep, them's fightin' words.

by mistersite 2008-05-23 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

This is incredible.  You act as if this whole thing was manufactured by Obama or anyone connected with his campaign.  In fact, the official statement of the campaign cam AFTER the media picked up the story and was "it was unfortunate that she said that".  Wow, what a scathing attack!!!  And then later after Hillary's "apology", they said they would take Clinton at her word that she didn't mean it.  My God!!!! Twist the knife harder why don't you!!!!! That's completely unfair of them to imply that they would take her at her word.  How dare they?

This "controversy" is 100% Hillary's own doing, and this diary is yet another pathetic garbage hit piece from the vile Clinton Smear Machine.  Thank God it's all coming to an end soon. Once the primary process is over, the pathetic smear machiners will be banned practically as soon as garbage like this is posted if they keep up with the hateful smear pieces on the Dem nominee.

by NJIndependent 2008-05-23 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Linfar's MO is nothing but "if Hillary should ever do/say something inconsiderate or incompetent, it's the fault of the media/Obama/MEN"

by kicko 2008-05-23 04:21PM | 0 recs
This isn't swiftboating.

She said something stupid.  It's to be expected.  She is in front of cameras 24-7 with little sleep and she was bound to say something silly again.  It happens.

But in our political system, when you make a gaffe, your opponents exploit it.  They criticize you and pile on.  That's the way it is.  Let everybody have their moment of self-righteous indignation and move on.

How exactly is Obama trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy?  I don't get that.  You're really getting hammered here on that point and you haven't explained it.

by psychodrew 2008-05-23 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: This isn't swiftboating.

She said it in March: http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html

Once is a gaffe. Twice, with very similar language, comes off as planned.

by gcensr 2008-05-23 05:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

The diarist has lost her marbles.

by DeskHack 2008-05-23 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

STOP!! NOW!! Senator Obama. I have had it, and so have all good Democrats. You do not twist an innocent comment and step over  the grave of a martyred American hero to give your opponent a black eye.

I realize you don't watch Keith Olberman, but David Axelrod stated he knows Hillary didn't mean any ill will.  It was a poor choice of words, nothing more.

So uh yeah, quit blaming Obama.

by asherrem 2008-05-23 04:19PM | 0 recs
Clinton Blew a Hole in Her Campaign's Swiftboat

She sank it with the kind of gaffe that she was hoping and expecting Obama to make.

And at this time she hasn't even apologized to Obama for it.

If her boat was still afloat, however barely, before that gaffe, it sank with a self-inflicted shot.

As did any prospect of her joining Obama on the ticket.

I just want for her to have a safe rescue or swim to shore.  She's too good a person to be taken out this way.  But she did it to herself.

by Hobe 2008-05-23 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Blew a Hole in Her

There was no gaffe. Read the two updates. Obama campaign spokesman Burton leaped on it and twisted it. I think this one is going to backfire. Even the Kennedys have now said they know she didn't mean anything bad.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Blew a Hole in Her

I've read her words.  I've seen video of her saying them.  I've read her expression of regrets to the Kennedy's.

There is no excuse, no convolution of what she said, that would justify her raising the specter of assassination in that context.

I lived through those years -- 1968 (I was in college at the time).  Nobody who lived through them, in the context of a presidential race that is rife with sexism and racism, should be speaking of (even if she's thinking of) the possibility.

It was a gaffe -- unless she intended it to directly stoke fears.  And it was a gaffe that sinks her campaign boat.

by Hobe 2008-05-23 04:51PM | 0 recs
Thank you Hobe

I lived through those years too.  JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm...

No candidate running for office in this country should ever raise the specter of violent death by assassination.

If an average citizen makes remarks of that type they are visited by the Secret Service.

Whether gaffe, or intended...I am not inside her head.  But the non-apology she gave, given what her remark referenced was adding insult to injury.

And then to come here - and find a diary that is now somehow twisting this into an attack of Barack Obama is beyond my comprehension.

by NeciVelez 2008-05-23 06:23PM | 0 recs
This diary is despicable.

In no way is it Obama's fault that she said what she said.

It was extremely insensitive and Burton is right.  There is no reason for her to have raised the specter of assassination.  That does not belong in this campaign.

by you like it 2008-05-23 05:35PM | 0 recs
[Updated x1]

Linfar,

You took the time for one update.  Why not update it with a retraction for all the smears against Obama and his campaign on this issue.  He had nothing to do with any of this.

Grab back some of your credibility.  It's not too late even now.

by map 2008-05-23 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: [Updated x1]

I think it is, now. To turn this on Obama - well, it's beyond belief

by duende 2008-05-23 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: [Updated x1]

Read the second update and weep. It came Directly from his campaign--as usual.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: [Updated x1]

lol! You are such a tool Linfar!

Hillary messes up and you write a hit piece and a smear and think people other than the Hillaris44 racist crew and your xenophobe and stupid buddies at NoQuarter will buy it.

You're the one who should weep.

You are a pathetic blogger.

I hope this diary gets you banned.

by spacemanspiff 2008-05-23 04:49PM | 0 recs
Nothing will get her banned here

and she'll never feel the need to respond to anyone because she still thinks her opinion is relevant and of some import nearly 30 years after her 15 minutes were up.

I feel sorry for her.

by bookish 2008-05-24 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: [Updated x1]

Why would I weep?  Obama's campaign said the remarks were unfortunate.  Hillary herself said the remarks were unfortunate and appologized.  Is she swiftboating herself?

by map 2008-05-23 04:57PM | 0 recs
Swiftboating Hillary: You Are Effin' kidding me

Swiftboating?  Let me clue you in to something.

Swiftboating is something outside parties do to you.  While I don't believe there's malice involved with Clinton's statement, what I do know it's an insensitive gaffe.

She owns this one - no sexism - it's all hers and the sooner you deal with it, the better you'll be emotionally.

by LtWorf 2008-05-23 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

Excuse me?  Senator Obama has not even made a comment yet and here you are trashing him, claiming that he is behind it.  How about blaming Hillary being a loose cannon without thinking about her comments?  The MSM has caught wind of this and ran with it.  It's not Obama who is peddling this.  

I can't believe how delusional the Clinton supporters have become!

by sbbonerad 2008-05-23 04:34PM | 0 recs
How is this a recommended diary?

Obama hasn't even said about this and yet it is somehow his fault that Clinton said something insensitive. I just don't get it. It makes no sense.

by polara 2008-05-23 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: How is this a recommended diary?

It's a linfar diary - you were expecting sense?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-23 11:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

So, HRC puts her foot in her own mouth....and it's BO fault? WTF!?!  And you guys say BO supporters are drinking the "kool aid"?  

It's getting to be a farce....

by helo 2008-05-23 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

This delusional diary comes from someone who crucified Obama for Rev. Wright, "bitter", "cling".

Now you are blaming Obama for this media spectacle when it's your own candidate who used a very, very poorly chosen reference.  Gimme a break! You are losing credibility quickly!!

by sbbonerad 2008-05-23 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

When did they ever have credibility?  Honestly, a diary like this would lead me to believe it was a Republican Troll writing it.  

I'm not jumping on Hillary for her comments even though they were stupid, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but stating it's Obama's fault people are jumping all over her is just boardline psychotic.  

by lex75 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Meanwhile, you and your NoQuarter pals

Meanwhile, you and your NoQuarter pals continue to 'Swiftboat' Senator Obama everyday, with hundreds of posts and dozens of accusations.

And yea, your NoQuarter alternate persona is know Linfar. So your diary here is pure hypocrisy to the enth degree.

by DaveDial 2008-05-23 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.
Frankly, that's as despicable an allegation as I've seen on this site, and that's saying something.

It's a despicable, flat out, bald-faced lie.  You should be ashamed.

by rb608 2008-05-23 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

Indeed.  Not only is all of this Obama's fault, but Hillary was acting Presidential when invoking the assassination.  How shrewd Linfar is.

by Iago 2008-05-23 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

This is the way you twist things. She apologized to ensure at a time of great sadness for the Kennedy family that it didn't go any farther. That is practically what she said.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

Shrewd. Bloodlessly cynical. Massively wrong. Painfully stupid.

Take your pick.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-23 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

rb, the only person between the two of us who likes to call someone a liar is you--and so if you use that old sayng about when yu point the finger, three fingers are pointing back at yurself--enough said.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x1]

I'm rubber and your glue, whatever you say, bounces off of me, and sticks to you...

by hootie4170 2008-05-23 11:23PM | 0 recs
Meanwhile, you and your NoQuarter pals

Meanwhile, you and your NoQuarter pals continue to 'Swiftboat' Senator Obama everyday, with hundreds of posts and dozens of accusations.

And yea, your NoQuarter alternate persona is known, Linfar. So your diary here is pure hypocrisy to the enth degree.

by DaveDial 2008-05-23 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Meanwhile, you and your NoQuarter pals

ROFL--I have an alternate NOQ persona? Please, by all means let me know what it is.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

Because the only person trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain is Barack Obama in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with.
Frankly, that's as despicable an allegation as I've seen on this site, and that's saying something.

It's a despicable, flat out, bald-faced lie.  You should be ashamed.

by rb608 2008-05-23 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I think you are the one who  should be ashamed at a candidate who will let a campaign spokesperson use RFK's memory this way. Burton swiftboated her.

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !!

I'm sorry, but which candidate brought up RFK's assassination in a political context?  (Hint: It wasn't Obama.)

by rb608 2008-05-24 07:56AM | 0 recs
Ps: I don't believe Senator Clinton meant anything

Ps: I don't believe Senator Clinton meant anything horrible by the comment, as horrible as it did sound.

But I know that if Senator Obama had made the same sort of misstatement you would be among the first to make a diary twisting his words to make him some sort of demon.

by DaveDial 2008-05-23 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

This is THE vilest diary from this individual that I can recall.  This person has written many many vile comments/diaries against Barack over the past few months.  This uncalled for attack clearly shows that this person is delusional, hateful, and perhaps even demented (based on the diary, this person should be about 60 or older). Truly disgusting!!!!

by sbbonerad 2008-05-23 04:46PM | 0 recs
Buttered Rye

TOAST

by xdem 2008-05-23 04:47PM | 0 recs
Sad

You jump all over Sen. Obama every chance you get over every damn little thing and Sen. Clinton actually does say something horrible and you squel like a stuck pig calling for everybody to get off of her.

Your double standard should keep you awake at nights.

Disgusting.

by notme54 2008-05-23 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Sad

Backatcha :)

by linfar 2008-05-23 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Sad

I second the backatcha--This is for you, notme:  

You jump all over Sen. Clinton every chance you get over every damn little thing, but when Sen. Obama actually does say something horrible you squeAl like a stuck pig calling for everybody to get off him!

Your double standard should keep you awake at nights.

Disgusting.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:14PM | 0 recs
I wish I could REC this 100X !!!

What a travesty it is that the media and the Obama campaign, and administrators of this very blog, swoop down on this story as if it even IS a story!

There is no story.

What a pathetic travesty.

by bobswern 2008-05-23 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: I wish I could REC this 100X !!!
Davix Axelrod went out of his way to defend her two hours after the story broke. Enough whining about the Obama campaign.
Criticize the media if you want but this is not their doing.
by Benjaminomeara 2008-05-23 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: I wish I could REC this 100X !!!

Bill Burton. Bill Burton. Bill Burton.

by linfar 2008-05-23 05:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I wish I could REC this 100X !!!

You know, if Hillary Clinton wants to be president, she is, one of these days, going to have to take responsibility for her own words.  Barack Obama won't always be there for you to pin the blame on.

She's not running for High Priestess of NoQuarter where that stuff plays.

(This is Obama's fault?  Really?)

by Jess81 2008-05-23 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Amazing. Clinton makes a gaffe, a bad one, and once again its Obama's fault.

In fact, now he's swiftboating her.

I'm getting pretty damn sick of this campaign. Clinton should get out because she lost, and stop trying to blame everyone around her for the state she's found herself in.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-05-23 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

The only thing you need to know is that everything is Obama's fault (including global warming). ;)

by batgirl71 2008-05-23 05:28PM | 0 recs
Swiftboating has a definition

it's to falsely attack a person on their biggest strength with libelous accusations.

Hillary made these statements.  On the record.  And her "apology" was crap.  

Taking offense at them is not swiftboating--it's moral outrage.  And it's appropriate.

Encourage the candidate you support to come out with a full mea culpa.  Otherwise, it's going to keep on coming, and rightly so.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-23 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

Not only is three no spoon, but there is no knife, and no fork either. Hillary referenced history in relation to the Presidential primary race. The comment was pounced on by the Obama campaign--No One Else!!!!! The newspaper people where she was doing the interview have come out and defended her. She made a comment that was distorted and twisted by the Obama campaign for politidcal gain. And that no silverware at all--that is swiftboating.

by linfar 2008-05-23 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

I mean, how ironic has this become?  A campaign whose foundation rests on bringing change to our politics has engendered some of the fiercest partisanship and hate towards a fellow Democrat.  I really believe that Obama needs to set his supporters straight on this one...if he's smart, that's exactly what he'll do.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

Hey linfar,

Since you're such a fair and balanced reporter, perhaps you'd update your diary to reflect David Axelrod defended Hillary on Hardball.

Or was Axelrod defending Hillary for "political gain!!!!!!!!"?

by asherrem 2008-05-23 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

No, you need to encourage YOUR candidate to come out swiftly with a denunciation of the kind of hate-mongering that one simple gaffe has elicited.  

Yes.  Hillary made these statements on the record.  Your point is?  If you'd care to think outside of your Hillary-hating abode for just a second, you'd realize that your moral outrage is best directed at comments with malicious intent or meaning.  

If she should apologize, she should be sorry for making a gaffe that had the potential to be interpreted in such a malicious, self-serving way by Obama supporters that they used it as a weapon against her.  

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re:

And Hillary Clinton needs to make a swift denunciation of NoQuarter.

You, and the diarist, are being ridiculous.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

No, you need to encourage YOUR candidate to come out swiftly with a denunciation of the kind of hate-mongering that one simple gaffe has elicited.  

Yes.  Hillary made these statements on the record.  Your point is?  If you'd care to think outside of your Hillary-hating abode for just a second, you'd realize that your moral outrage is best directed at comments with malicious intent or meaning.  

If she should apologize, she should be sorry for making a gaffe that had the potential to be interpreted in such a malicious, self-serving way by Obama supporters that they used it as a weapon against her.  

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

Yes, because it's Obama's fault and that of his supporters that she made a statement about the assassination of a Democratic Presidential Candidate 40 years ago.  Because THAT was the most appropriate election to refer to.  Not 1980 or 1984.

You make absolute perfect fucking sense.

Oh, that was snark.

by The Distillery 2008-05-23 05:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

Hide rated for a personal attack.

by BPK80 2008-05-23 11:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Swiftboating has a definition

That's not a personal attack.  uprated.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 11:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Stop Swiftboating Hillary

[Inigo Montoya] You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by mattw 2008-05-23 04:58PM | 0 recs
What I would have liked to have read.......

........is some upset by the Hillary camp about this statement.  Yes some of the Obama supporters have gone way too far in their accusations, but that would have been at least partly defused if anyone in her camp had spoken out for it being a really thoughtless and scary thing to say that did not belong in the discourse of this campaign.  No one did that I saw.

by mady 2008-05-23 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: What I would have liked to have read.......

 Mady--she didn't say anything!!! Look at what the newspaper people say. She referenced RFK in relation to his campaign. That is it. Burton, an Obama spokesman, jumped on the reference. And we were off and running. Is it so hard to understand, there was no gaffe. There was no problem. Until Burton manufactured one. She apologized rather than upset the Kennedys at a time of great sorrow for them. That is who she is. She will take the hit rather than upset people when they are grieving. I wish the same could be said for your guy.

by linfar 2008-05-23 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: What I would have liked to have read.......

I think what she said was inappropriate (you don't use the word assassination in any sense in relating to an ongoing campaign), and in that sense it required an apology.  I was shocked, however, by how many people here jumped on the bandwagon that it somehow meant she had evil intentions.  That thought is insane, and I don't even know how folks got there.  

I spent the evening trying to deal with my mother, a devoted Hillary supporter (she really loves her and takes this campaign very personally), alternately being very upset over this statement and the probable Obama nomination, and in the next breath trying to make me say anything in the "drinking the kool-aid" vein to prove my advocacy for Obama was an aberration.  It was a trying evening and some of the lunatic posts when I got home were just the icing on the cake.

By the way, I do not see that Obama has done anything to "upset the grieving" and I'm not sure what you mean by that.  As a matter of fact, if you are referring to Kennedy, Obama is filling in for him for the commencement address at Weslyan this weekend so things are okay there.

by mady 2008-05-23 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

So the Obama campaign responded thusly:

Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.

And you call this swiftboating?  Wow, you must not remember the 2004 campaign.  And it's clear from her apology that Hillary Clinton agreed that her statement was, indeed, unfortunate.

Moreover, to accuse the Obama campaign of playing 'gotcha' politics after the mountain of crap that has been hurled at him over the last couple months is crazy.  I bet you're one of the folks who believed that Barack gave Hillary the finger when he was scratching his face.

by chinapaulo 2008-05-23 05:05PM | 0 recs
I doubt that LinFar believed the finger nonsense..

... but she was happy to pretend that she did.

I don't know for certain whether alegre or LinFar is the biggest hypocrite here.

by tbetz 2008-05-24 07:00AM | 0 recs
Senator Obama has nothing to do

with what lurks in Senator Clinton's mind or soul

by Andre X 2008-05-23 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

This is the most inept fucking diary I have ever read.  You must really be off of your rocker.

Hillary Clinton did this to herself.  She is toast. Rightfully so,  her comment is reprehensible.  It is not a single other person's fault but hers.

To anyone trying in any way to put this on Barack Obama:

Don't vote for Obama in November. I don't want you in with our lot.  You represent maybe 500 people who are on another planet. I want you to slither away back into your holes and cry yourself to sleep on election night.  You deserve nothing more. Writhing, salty sluggggs.

by AlexScott 2008-05-23 05:14PM | 0 recs
Is this the rhetoric of a continued campaign?

Sen. Clinton supposedly reminding us that primaries have gone to June before while thinking we're too stupid to realize they didn't used to start right after Christmas? And then she invokes the assassination of RFK? She actually uses the word assassination in the context of why anything can happen? And this is the second time she's done this?

This has to end. Now! This week. If Hillary has not withdrawn by the middle of next week the supers need to end this insanity. This insane rhetoric helps no one and could be downright dangerous.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-23 05:14PM | 0 recs
Innocent remark?

Why did she make a similar remark on March 6 to Time Magazine?

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

Because most primaries used to begin in March, and this one began in January, there really isn't a comparable primary to which Hillary can point.

by Brad G 2008-05-23 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Innocent remark?

The context of the question was whether Clinton staying in the race was hurting the party, and would inevitably hurt the fall nominee.

Regardless of when most primaries used to begin, her point is that many primaries HAVE carried into June and such is not an unusual event.  The implication, in the case of her husband, is that one can have (only) 4 months to prepare & campaign for the general election, and still win.

She obviously said this inartfully.  She has said many more things, I should add, artfully.  But how much do Obama supporters really want to pounce here?  Again, most Clinton supporters see hers as nothing more than a gaffe--and many here, including myself, are outraged at the vitriol unleashed by those who are choosing to interpret her marks in the most malicious manner they can.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Innocent remark?

Except in 1992, Paul Tsongas, Bill Clinton's chief rival, dropped out in March, so the race was politically over at that time (similar to the 2000 and 2004 Democratic primaries being politically -- albeit not mathematically -- over on Super Tuesday).

by Brad G 2008-05-23 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Repugnant diary. Repugnant candidate.

 Repugnant comment. What is reprehensible is people tossing around assassination references the way you are. I have lived through two Kennedy's and Martin Luther King. Grow up!

by linfar 2008-05-23 05:16PM | 0 recs
Was Hillary also tired in June?

When she made the same comment? Didn't think so.

by edg1 2008-05-23 05:22PM | 0 recs
Oopsie. Meant March. I must be tired.

by edg1 2008-05-23 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Was Hillary also tired in June?

Do you mean in MARCH?

TWICE in March actually.

Or how about JANUARY?

UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE.

by AlexScott 2008-05-23 05:26PM | 0 recs
Stop Bitter-boating Barack!!

Stop Wright-boating Barack!!  Stop Sweetie-boating Barack!!

Or better yet, just stop. Period.

by edg1 2008-05-23 05:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

You are crazy and you need to go back into your echo chamber at Hillaryis44.org with your manufactured analogies and other BS.

Go away.

by heyhellowhatsnew 2008-05-23 05:21PM | 0 recs
spare me

please tell me: how is this "swiftboating"?

she said it. period. and she's said it in what is clearly a moment of desperation, when she can no longer win.

are you too damn blind to see it? too myopic? too stupid?

the race is over, yet she continues to dig her shovel into the manure for another scoop.

someone take the damn shovel out of her hand. stop the madness.

or.....how about defending her until the bitter end, until she's made all democrats look like dumbasses. would that be better for you?

she lost. get over it.

by j cantarella 2008-05-23 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: spare me

Please tell me:
how does this kind of needless hate bring our party together?

it is a time our party is struggling to unite, and many clinton and obama supporters are already dissatisfied with the tone of this primary season.

she made a gaffe. she said it. period.  her point, if you cared to see, was that primary races do go on through the month of june.

the race is not over.  but you need to stop the madness.  

win or lose, how about getting over your hate for hillary clinton? how about getting over a gaffe? get over it.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: spare me

WRONG.

The primaries of 1980 and 1984 are much better examples of a race lasting "until June."

This is the second time she used the "A" word.  This is the third or fourth time she has referenced RFK.

There is something sick about this shit. Very, very sick. If it weren't for everything Bill Clinton did in the 90's, I wouldn't want Obama's campaign touching her with a ten foot pole.

by AlexScott 2008-05-23 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: spare me

Bullshit! Not you, not Linfar, not Alegre.... none of you give a damn about party unity unless it involves Clinton as the nominee, so please spare the faux outrage with your "unity" meme. None of you were ever going to vote for Obama anyways.

by zep93 2008-05-23 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

As this was at least the second time she made this remark I am not all that inclined to cut her much slack. No, I don't think she is in any way calling for Obama to be killed, but it is a remark that was insensitive the first time and could be construed as malicious the second, especially during the week of Ted Kennedy's news and coming up on the anniversary of RFK's assassination.

You complain about context... where where you during the Wright controversy? Where you arguing for context at that time?  

This kills her campaign, and it is a shame that she stuck her foot, not only in her mouth but deep down her throat.

In a real sense her near and medium term political career depends on the well being of Obama now. Can you imagine the sheer pandemonium that would break out if Obama was, god forbid, actually killed?

I sincerely hope in the long run she is able to outlive this and be able to do good work in the Senate.

by notedgeways 2008-05-23 05:31PM | 0 recs
UPDATE THREE

Hillary is the strongest person in the history of America , taking all this shit and still standing rock solid , That comment was appropriate but Hillary cannot be spared for anything , she apologized ,end of this chapter.
HILL 08
die for hillary | 05.23.2008 - 5:41 pm | #

I love Taylor Marsh commenters. And linfar - I lub you, too.

by kyle in philly 2008-05-23 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: UPDATE THREE

Let's share the love.

It's A Shame That The Media And Especially MSNBC Has Nothing To Offer Viewers Anymore Except The Kind Of Coverage She Get's MSNBC Only Want's To Cover Her When They Think They Can Demonize Her Character.You Know I'am Just So Disgusted About This That I Can't Even Begin To Fathom Why The News Media Even Considers This News Since It's A Accurate Statement,She's Damned If She Do Damned If She Don't.I Hope And Pray That Senator Clinton Take Her Voters And Go Independent Because She Does Not Deserve This,I Could Tell She Felt Demoralize From What The Media Did With This Snippet,I Had It Every Obama Asswholes Are Eating This Up Just To Demoralize Her Like They Have Done This Entire Campaign,And I'am Beginning To Feel Her Pain,It Is So Sad.And This Demoralizing Of Her Temperament I Think Is Taking Atoll On Her.And Personally So What,He Were Asassinated In June In California,I Fail To See The Indescrepency Of Her Remark
Jacktheripper | Homepage | 05.23.2008 - 5:55 pm | #

by Jess81 2008-05-23 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: UPDATE THREE

I like the ones where the message and the name match nicely.

OBAMA, I demand an apology from you NOW11 For throwing us all under the bus. For calling us racist, etc. etc. etc..Apologise NOW!
caringnurse1 | 05.23.2008 - 6:11 pm | #

Oh, and like Linfar, they're talking about Hillary Clinton's gaffe.  Getting together a torches n' pitchforks gang because this is CLEARLY all Barack Obama's fault.

by Jess81 2008-05-23 06:25PM | 0 recs
That comment was not appropriate

Holy fuck ,get over yourself.

by jaywillie 2008-05-23 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: UPDATE THREE

Hey, Kyle, I lub you back :)

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Obama camp continues to sink to an all-time low in dramatizing a factual statement about RFK's Democratic primary race in June of 1968.  Where is the OUTRAGE?!?  Hey Barack - WE were there.  WE were affected.  While you were barely in kindergarten, we were GREIVING.  HOW DARE YOU turn this into a political ploy. YOU ARE A SICKO.  And know NOTHING about our nation's struggles or history.  GO AWAY.  

by curiosityhasme 2008-05-23 05:43PM | 0 recs
I was there too
and I grieved too. So for Clinton to invoke even the word once is too much.  Unfortunately it's not the first time.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html
by Singing Lizard 2008-05-23 06:01PM | 0 recs
I was there too
and I grieved too. So for Clinton to invoke even the word once is too much.  Unfortunately it's not the first time.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html
by Singing Lizard 2008-05-23 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]
You are a ridiculous apologist.  Calling this swiftboating is about the dumbest thing I have ever read on a blog, and I have spent about a thousand hours reading blogs and diaries.
Have you completely lost your mind and objectivity?  Let it go.  Your candidate has lost and disgraced herself in the process.  I used to have great respect and support for her, but she is a lost cause.
by DaveG 2008-05-23 05:43PM | 0 recs
I have "no doubt"
"Update 2--There can be no doubt who swiftboated Clinton for her remarks. It was the Obama campaign in the form of Obama spokesman, Bill Burton who said:
Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.
" Are you kidding me!? Saying comments were "unfortunate" and that references to assassination have "no place in this campaign" is swift-boating? Can the bar for swift-boating be lowered any further? Shame...
by sharpfork 2008-05-23 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

by lockewasright 2008-05-23 05:46PM | 0 recs
This is not the first time she said that

nor the second.
You cannot imagine how much this offends me.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html

by Singing Lizard 2008-05-23 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

For every action there is an equal and positive reaction.  Listen up Obama robots:  When your candidate loses in the biggest landslide since Goldwater, you can thank yourselves for the mother of all backlashes due to the outrageous charges leveled against Sen. Clinton.  BIGGEST LANDSLIDE EVER.  Keep it up...revenge and retaliation like you have never seen in your lives. Your continual unfair allegations toward Sen. Clinton is sealing Obama's fate one diss (vote) at a time. The needless controversies manufactured will not go unheeded, I can assure you.  Millions of us will see to that.

by curiosityhasme 2008-05-23 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

boooooooooohoooooooooooooooo. WHINER.

=(.

Haha.

I said this earlier. It's more like 500 of you (not on this site, but maybe total)...and we don't want you.

Please, I am asking you personally not to vote for Obama.

I don't want you or any of the other looney toons to have a part of the win.  You represent a teenie tiny minority of rational Clinton supporters.

Cry cry cry about it.

by AlexScott 2008-05-23 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Wow.  I remember the days when swiftboating a candidate entailed forming a 527, promoting a million dollar ad campaign, and publishing an accompanying book.

Now apparently all you need is to wait for a candidate to say something stupid and call it "unfortunate."

Swiftboating.  Really.  You gotta be fucking kidding me

by Saintcog 2008-05-23 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Who is swiftboating Hillary? Who? She said something today which, intended or not, was deeply offensive to many, many people.  Obama's campaign gave her the benefit of doubt. They did not distort and they did not spin. Burton called Clinton's despicable statement, 'unfortunate.'  I hardly think that is swiftboating as you suggest. I can understand that you are upset -- a lot of us are upset. Clinton is the only person who can answer for this. You cannot defend this.

by grasshopper 2008-05-23 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

"Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign."

Yeah that sure was swiftboating. Boy, they ripped her a new one. I am sure glad that she has a tough skin. Whew!!

(snark)

by woman 2008-05-23 06:09PM | 0 recs
FYI...

Swiftboating is not simply attacking your opponent... it is taking your opponents greatest strength/asset and attempting to use it against them, by challenging the premises upon which said strength/asset is based.

by alb 2008-05-23 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: FYI...

That reminds me of Ted Kennedy, who when he endorsed Obama, said he was reminded of his brother Robert.  

by kellogg 2008-05-23 06:18PM | 0 recs
Ridiculous

No one running for the presidency should ever invoke a potential assassination of his or her opponent as a reason to stay in the race.  This point is so self evident it needs no explanation.  Anyone who misses it has no soul, or at least has misplaced it.  

Hillary has long since proved herself to be a destructive force who is unfit for the office.  Any Democrat who cares about the party would try to figure out the quickest, most graceful way to get this over.

by dge 2008-05-23 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Ridiculous

I guess that lets Obama out then--he is the one who turned this into something different than it was.For political gain.

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:51AM | 0 recs
Swiftboating. You keep using that word.

I do not think it means what you think it means.  

Also, just FYI, Hillary was also wrong about the 1992 campaign.  

by kellogg 2008-05-23 06:17PM | 0 recs
This diary is hypocritical

While you are exploiting the memory of Bobby Kennedy's assassination, along with the memory of 9/11, you ask that people stop being outraged at Clinton's exploitation of the memory of Bobby Kennedy's assassination. Your reasoning? That the ones who are outraged at the exploitation are the exploiters. Ludicrous.

by Zoey 2008-05-23 06:18PM | 0 recs
Despiccable

Hillary should be ashamed of bringing up the RFK assassination. She needs to get out of the race quickly. Endorse Obama and woirk hard on his behalf. She will not be VP. She will have to be contant as a NY senator and run again in 2012 (if Obama loses) or in 2016 ( more likely; when Obama wins).

Shameful.

by chatters71 2008-05-23 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

So, quoting her words is now Swift Boating?

Funny, I thought feminism was all about creating an equal playing field.

by rayspace 2008-05-23 06:21PM | 0 recs
How about you stop...

Why are you blaming Obama?  Has he made some kind of official statement?

How about holding your candidate accountable for her careless fucking tongue.

by jaywillie 2008-05-23 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

I do think her comments have been blown out of proportion and that she simply misspoke.

However, I also think that this hit piece diary is complete bullshit.

by rfahey22 2008-05-23 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

 Bwahaha....fair-minded, funny, and profane. My favorite kind of comment. linfar abandoned her critical-thinking skills a while back, sadly. The spectacle of Clinton trying to walk back this gaffe over the next few days will be a sight to see. I think what makes Clinton supporters like linfar and alegre so mad is seeing Hillary's own weapon of choice turned against her.

by Kordo 2008-05-23 06:39PM | 0 recs
At the best this was one of the.....

....most ignorant remarks I have ever heard a candidate make, and at the worst, well lets not go there.  Even giving her the benefit of the doubt she has talked her way out of the ticket.  She was waiting for a major gaffe, well she got one, only it was her, not Obama making it.

by xenontab 2008-05-23 06:25PM | 0 recs
At the best this was one of the.....

....most ignorant remarks I have ever heard a candidate make, and at the worst, well lets not go there.  Even giving her the benefit of the doubt she has talked her way out of the ticket.  She was waiting for a major gaffe, well she got one, only it was her, not Obama making it.

by xenontab 2008-05-23 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Fuck you.

by jsidlowski 2008-05-23 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Nah, I'm sauced.  You're just really goddamn absurd.

by jsidlowski 2008-05-23 06:29PM | 0 recs
As a rule,
I don't hold with telling people to fuck off, but there are times, and this is one of them, where there just isn't any other reasonable or decent answer.
You're right. She should go fuck off.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-24 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

You need to get this clear:  Senator Clinton is now an ex-candidate, and she'll be lucky to hold her senate seat (speaking as a New Yorker)

by fightbull 2008-05-23 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

As a New Yorker i am very upset with Hillary right now.

by Bobby Obama 2008-05-23 07:02PM | 0 recs
Stop. Just Stop.

For the love of Pete, stop it.

You do a disservice to both yourself and your candidate with this diary.  Senator Clinton made a terribly ill-advised comparison.  Despite the fact that I am an Obama supporter, I attempted to defend her in another diary.  But you have twisted yourself into a pretzel trying to somehow blame this whole thing on Senator Obama or his campaign.  It's unseemly and it's embarrassing.

by Vivianne 2008-05-23 07:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop. Just Stop.

It is embarassing--I am embarassed to be a part of a party that would maliciously morph an inartful choice of words into some kind of Satanic will on Senator Clinton's part.

Take your words: 'Senator Clinton made a terribly ill-advised comparison'.  She wasn't comparing RFK to Obama.  Disabuse yourself of her having made a comparison.  She invoked the RFK assassination as an historical marker, period.  

Let's be clear that despite the graciousness of Axelrod's comments, it WAS Obama's campaign that released the statement that (I hope) you can read above.  That was needless.  That was adding fuel to the fire.  It is indeed unseemly and embarrassing.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop. Just Stop.

Yes, and "I am embarrassed to be part of a party that would maliciously morph an inartful choice of words" into some sort of elitism on Senator Obama's part.

But we could go on all night.  And it needs to stop.

I never said that she was comparing RFK to Obama.  The comparison (while historically inaccurate) was to the continuation of her campaign into June.  But I think that reasonable people can agree that her comparison was not particularly well-worded.

And your snarky little comment pertaining to your "hope" that I can read was unnecessary.

by Vivianne 2008-05-23 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop. Just Stop.

First of all...what's wrong with the audacity of something like hope?

Seriously, though, my point was that reasonable people can also believe that the Obama campaign added fuel to the fire with its press release following the gaffe.  Reasonable people can be upset with the Obama camp for releasing that kind of statement, as opposed to coming to Clinton's defense for the sake of party unity.

I'm not saying this represents elitism on Obama's part.  I'm saying it's problematic coming from (the campaign of) a presumptive nominee who has growing difficulties securing the support of the "Hillary Democrats".  I hold out hope that RFK, Jr's prudent statement will defuse the unjustifiable outrage over a comment that we agree was not particularly well-worded.  Surely, Axelrod spoke up knowing that the original press release was off-key.  It will take Obama himself, though, to step up to the plate and settle this.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop. Just Stop.

P.S. Regarding the elitism issue--I realize now that you were referring to his San Fran comments.  I do think there is a tremendous distinction between the two "gaffes".  The response to Obama's comments about small-town America was politically justified to the extent that reasonable people could use them to ask how much Obama was "in touch" with average Americans.  No, unlike others, I didn't brand Obama an "elitist", but I did (reasonably) believe the comments exhibited Obama's lack of affinity/understanding of guns and religion.  Regardless, whether one is "in touch" remains a legitimate political issue--and one that Obama has the right to, and should, tackle head-on.

On the other hand, the hate-filled, vitriolic responses to Clinton's comments today are politically justified on what grounds?  "She wants Obama to die.  She's that sick."  No.  "She made a really bad choice of words."  (True, but not grounds for this kind of hate.)  "She brought up the A-word in the context of a black man running for President."  Sorry, but it takes more than cynicism to believe that she willfully sought to link 'Obama' to 'assassination'.  It takes delusion.

by MMR2 2008-05-23 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop. Just Stop.

Please, you're attempting to get far more mileage out of the statement than is justified.  Trying to turn this into an Obama smear just makes you look ridiculous.  Maybe lashing out at Obama is the first reaction that comes naturally to you when Clinton misspeaks, but that doesn't mean it makes a lot of sense.

by rfahey22 2008-05-23 07:27PM | 0 recs
Since linfar absolutely refuses

to update her diary, I feel the need to do it for her.

David Axelrod defended Hillary.

by asherrem 2008-05-23 07:08PM | 0 recs
Who's swiftboating whom?

The real swiftboating occurred over the bitter comments, and Hillary personally participated in the swiftboating, and she did so with zeal.

The comments WERE unfortunate, and to call them so is certainly not swiftboating.  Nor were Axelrod's comments taking Hillary at her word swiftboating.  The Obama camp has shown considerable restraint tonight--RESTRAINT HITHERTO UNKNOWN BY HILLARY HERSELF.

So aim your cross-hairs where they belong: on Olbermann and the news media.  I agree that they've made much more out of this unfortunate statement than needed to have been made.

by maconblue 2008-05-23 07:20PM | 0 recs
I can haz meds, plez? n/t

by bookish 2008-05-23 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

So Clinton made a really tasteless comment that could easily be misconstrued, but she obviously has nothing to be ashamed of...

but OBAMA called the remarks "unfortunate." Which is "right out of the Karl Rove bag of tricks," "trashing the memory of Bobby Kennedy for political gain," "in a tawdry and well worn methodology of gamesmanship that anyone who has followed this campaign is familiar with."

Got it. No Democrat can possibly support Obama now!

by vinc 2008-05-23 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Ridiculous assertation on your part.  Put down the fucking crackpipe and realize that she just suggested she's in the race in case something unfortunate happens to her opponent.  You don't go there, ever, especially not with who Obama is (by the way, he's a young, charismatic reformer who is black, and there's been a terrible history of those folks being shot).  Throwing your support behind a comment like that tells us terrible things about you.

by reenactor 2008-05-23 07:40PM | 0 recs
You are supporting terrorism and hate!!

Hillary has come out in favor of domestic terrorism. This is not swiftboating. This is from her own statements.

Unless you think that HRC is a moron, and doesn't know what she is saying and doesn't parse every single word she says, then . . . I have a bridge to sell you . . .

This is indefensible. HRC has come out in favor of the most distasteful form of American political terrorism and assassination. Because ... she thinks that this assissination will benefit HER!!

No less than a few days or weeks ago, there were diaries on here supporting a crack pot psychic who said that she "saw" that Hillary would win. Among her comments, she said that she also saw a "future" in which HRC was the vice president of Obama and Obama was assasinated and HRC became President. People on MyDD supported these statements. These statements mirror those of Hillary's. It doesn't take a psychic to realize that these statements are those of a mad woman (the psychic) who sees, not love, not the future, but only hate and her own preconceived biases.

If you continue to support HRC after these statements of hers, then you support domestic terrorism and violence. It is time for HRC to go. It is time for every thinking, feeling, person to reject and denounce her hateful and distasteful statements.

by DrPolitics 2008-05-23 07:57PM | 0 recs
Stupid story, fake outrage and i am tired of our

supporters childish behavior.

While we were running around like chickens without heads and screaming bloody murder over a non-story, the McCains (screw up medical records and one year of tax returns) have the biggest ass aircraft carrier around the corner in full view of everyone. We are a bunch of stupid idiot because we are all faking being outraged about what, nothing serious and harmful.

by likelihood zero 2008-05-23 08:08PM | 0 recs
The Death Rattle

Linfar,

I know you are hurt right now. I would be too, if I was in your position. The person you've supported, defended and completely invested yourself in just made a mistake. Any earlier in this hard fought contest, and it probably wouldn't have been fatal. But as an administrator alluded to today, context is important. And the context of her mistake makes it one that will be hard, if not impossible, to recover from.

I don't think she meant any harm by her comment. But it symbolized in brazen relief a problem that has been bubbling beneath the surface for a while now. It was a physical manifestation of exhaustion and desperation. And it likely signifies the end of a long and arduous journey for a historic campaign and those that have fueled its vehicle.

I don't blame you for lashing out. I might do the same. And I hope that you would, were you in my shoes, make the same consideration and offer the same sympathy that I am offering now.

I hope that soon, you will come to accept the reality with which you've been confronted. I can tell from your contributions to this site, that you will have a harder time than most to find peace with it. But I also know that as a member of the Democratic party, you have the capacity to overcome your emotions to help ensure that we serve the least among us by unifying for the greater good.

We're - none of us - possessed of the ability to foresee the future, so we're doing our best to make a decision about the best person to lead us out of the abyss constructed by 8 years of unadulterated conservative cynicism and rule by fiat. I know you don't agree with the choice we've made, but I also know that you have no more information on which to base your judgment than we have had on which to base ours, so the field, as they say, is level, and as evidenced by the outcome of the nomination process by the people, a choice has been made.

I hope you'll eventually come to realize that we're all on the same side, fighting the same enemy, in the same war, toward the same ends, and provide your person to the cause. We welcome all comers in the big tent.

by bookish 2008-05-23 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

And one wonders why nost of Hillary's supporters will be voting for McCain in the fall if Obama gets the nomination.  Well it is clear to me Obama supporters are young, stupid, uninformed and have never worked a hard job in their lives.  Obama has nothing to give the hard working white class Americans.  If you listen to one thing he says he will destroy working class America.  I am one of those working class Americans and would like to be able to survive and get ahead in my life.  So to all of you Obamabots.  Please go back to school or get a job and get a life.  Let the grown-ups handle the tough job.

Hillary 08 or McCain 08 the actual adults with knowledge and experience.

by kmr1964 2008-05-23 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

racist crap

by IowaMike 2008-05-23 09:27PM | 0 recs
Clinton swift boated *herself*

i'll be the first to believe that Clinton's intent in what she said was to not imply the threat of assassination against Obama.

however, we're getting a very problematic picture here.

the argument for Clinton's candidacy has in part been buttressed by the claim that she's "vetted", that she's the strongest politician of the Democrat party.  and yet somehow her words here should be shrugged off as a "slip of the tongue".

someone as consummately prepared and "packaged" as Hillary Clinton would not be making "slips of the tongue".

for whatever reason, she chose the particular example of RFK on purpose.  it was at best a bad mistake given the hospitalization of Teddy Kennedy and the actual death threats phoned in against both Obama and Clinton.

it's not something that can be easily dismissed.

by fightinfilipino 2008-05-23 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton swift boated *herself*

your username isn't helping things :|

by fightinfilipino 2008-05-23 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Look. Nice diary but I disagree. Obama didn't swiftboat her. His moronic supporters and the MSM did.

by NY Writer 2008-05-23 09:20PM | 0 recs
Agreed, except he did start something

according to ABCNews:

The Obama campaign's decision to target Clinton's RFK reference forced the former first lady to express regret for her remarks.

Also, the campaign's press release reminded reporters that he has secret service because he's received threats.

by catfish2 2008-05-24 03:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Swiftboating is when you make shit up.

She said it, and used it 3 times in the past.

And when people say stuff that is offensive, we should be offended, like when Obama called the woman sweaty? There was some mighty angry people here when he made that comment, and he only did it once.

She referenced the RFK thing 4 times.

What point was she trying to make?  That the decisions didn't come until June.  Actually, Bill mathematically had it wrapped up before June. 80 and 84 might have been better examples, but we lost those years badly. So she uses the assassination as an example how things could change?

Classless.

by IowaMike 2008-05-23 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Sweety not sweaty!  That would have been offensive ;)

by interestedbystander 2008-05-23 11:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

oops....

brane phart!

by IowaMike 2008-05-24 08:36PM | 0 recs
two thoughts...

1) obama's campaign has never said anything other than 'move on there's nothing to see here.' if you read anything more in it than that you are seriously having problems.

2) is this really what it has become for Hillary and my DD? seriously, look at this post 6 weeks from now  and if you still think it's reasonable, i'll donate $ to the candidate of your choice.

by ksquire 2008-05-23 10:14PM | 0 recs
Wrong. They issued a press release
saying Obama's has secret service and has been the subject of threats and the whole reason this got so much attention was in response to that Obama press release.
The Obama campaign's decision to target Clinton's RFK reference forced the former first lady to express regret for her remarks.
by catfish2 2008-05-24 03:17AM | 0 recs
She has run a terrible campaign....

and this is the nail in the coffin.  For a candidate to have the kind of advantage she enjoyed only to piss it away is nothing short of complete incompetence, and this latest comment is another chink in the "intelligence" armor.  What an incredibly dumb thing to say, when there are MANY other examples for her to use of primaries continuing into June.  

Either it was a stupid comment and she should have known better, or it was a calculated move.  

by Seeking Cincinnatus 2008-05-23 11:48PM | 0 recs
Obama supporter who thinks this is overblown

But also thinks this diary is a piece of shit. Blame the Chris Matthews media if you must, but there are certain types of karma in play here.

And to blame the Obama campaign is ridiculous.  They've been gracious and vewwy vewwy quiet (Elmer Fudd voice).  You know why?  Because this stuff is toxic enough on its own, without their having to play any sort of angle.  I remember the last time a campaign was vewwy vewwy quiet, and it was the Clinton campaign, when the Reverend Wright shit first hit the fan.

by darryl darryl darryl 2008-05-24 12:41AM | 0 recs
She's a great Democrat.

How dare you call her a piece of shit. Calm down and get a grip.

by catfish2 2008-05-24 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

This diary is beyond sick.

by hebi 2008-05-24 01:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

"The night Bobby Kennedy was assassinated..."

Bobby Kennedy was shot in the morning, idiot.  If you didn't find out until 9 pm, and you were working in a goddamn newsroom, you are the worst person in journalism ever.

by uprollysuck 2008-05-24 01:41AM | 0 recs
After midnight is considered night

even though technically it is the morning.

by catfish2 2008-05-24 03:12AM | 0 recs
Re: After midnight is considered night

And she didn't find until 9 pm the next day, 20 hours or so after the fact?  Linfar's making this stuff up, plain and simple.

by uprollysuck 2008-05-24 08:20AM | 0 recs
Linfar the Liar

You're a liar, linfar. I can't believe you were an AP reporter. You are sham. Go back to Hillaryis44

"On June 4, 1968, Kennedy scored a major victory when he won the California primary. "He addressed his supporters in the early morning hours of June 5, 1968 in a ballroom at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles." He left the ballroom through a service area to greet supporters working in the hotel's kitchen. In a crowded kitchen passageway, Sirhan Sirhan, a 24-year-old Palestinian, opened fire with a .22 caliber revolver and shot Kennedy in the head at close range. Following the shooting, Kennedy was rushed to The Good Samaritan Hospital where he died the next day."

You said:

"The night Bobby Kennedy was assassinated I was sitting behind a metal desk in downtown Los Angeles covering all the election news for City News Service of Los Angeles. CNS was  a little wire service but one that fed all the big dogs including the AP.

My boss was a hard boiled, tough guy named Chuck Riley who frankly scared the shit out of me, and I felt as if I were chained to a tiger for the evening.

I think it was about 9 p.m. when some one called to say that Bobby had been shot. Chuck turned white.  He took his cigar out of his mouth, shook his head angrily and then barked at whoever was on the other end to stop kidding around. "

LIAR. LIAR LIAR LIAR. Go back to Hillaryis44 and never return.

by heyhellowhatsnew 2008-05-24 02:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Linfar the Liar

This could only be Bob Johnson with a new name. Calling names and raising the vicious level by any means possible. Yoohoo, Bob, hasta la vista  

by linfar 2008-05-24 07:02AM | 0 recs
ABCNews: Obama's campaign targeted this

ABCNews:

The Obama campaign's decision to target Clinton's RFK reference forced the former first lady to express regret for her remarks.

And what did Obama's press release say? It cited Hillary's remarks, and reminded reporters that Obama has secret service because he's been threatened! (Like every other president and candidate.)

When Clinton referenced RFK's assassination while discussing previous Democratic nomination fights which stretched into June, she was quickly scolded by the Obama campaign.

"Senator Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign," wrote Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton in a missive to reporters.

Burton's e-mail included a link to a New York Post story which noted that Obama, who received a Secret Service detail early in the campaign, has been the subject of threats.

by catfish2 2008-05-24 03:11AM | 0 recs
Re: ABCNews: Obama's campaign targeted this

So you expect that Hillary screws it big time and the Obama campaign just says nothing at all, even when asked.  Come out to the real world.  The Burton statement was appropriate, it was a very unfortunate statement from Hillary.

by sbbonerad 2008-05-24 06:10AM | 0 recs
Re: ABCNews: Obama's campaign targeted this

The Burton comment was CRAP!! You just don't use the memory of Bobby Kennedy this way.

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:48AM | 0 recs
You know something?
You're loathesome. And pathetic. And vile. And also you're an asshole.
Now, normally, I wouldn't write something like this about someone, but in some cases, not to recognize the awfullness of the person I'm dealing with calls into question my credibility if it seems like I hadn't picked up on it.
In this case, you're such a loathesome creature that if it looks like I haven't figured that out, then it makes me look stupid.
I'm not stupid; I HAVE figured it out, and you ARE a loathesome, pathetic, vile asshole.
I'm sorry to say it, but it's true.
If you don't like what I have to say, then ratehr than getting pissy with me--which I expect you to do--maybe you should work on being a better person, if you even know how at this point. I wish you luck, but for now, we'd all be a lot better off if you'd just crawl away back under your rock for a while.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-24 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: ABCNews: Obama's campaign targeted this

So you expect that Hillary screws it big time and the Obama campaign just says nothing at all, even when asked.  Come out to the real world.  The Burton statement was appropriate, it was a very unfortunate comment from Hillary.

by sbbonerad 2008-05-24 06:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Instead of getting huffy and acting like a 12 year old, you can act like the 60 or 70 plus year old adult you are and acknowledge that she made a huge gaffe here.  You know the way the media has covered and blown up these kinds of comments... SHE knows the way they do ESPECIALLY after Obama's bitter comments which were the SAME thing as these comments... a very very very poor choice of word.  I have let to see you admit or say... HILLARY FUCKED UP!  Because she did...

Use some logic for a minute here... What does Obama gain from pushing this story?  Nothing... he already is pretty much assured the nomination and everyone including Hillary knows this.  If he was GOING to push it, he could do it much better... get Ted or Caroline to come out and make a statement condemning them... make statements himself etc.   You are pushing the worst kind of conspiracy theory bullshit when you make these kinds of claims and acting like the worst manner of human being.

Its a pretty sad statement when someone old enough to be a grandparent is acting more immature than their grandkids.  Given the way you have been acting, I thought you were an 18 or 19 year old voting for the first time.... now I come to find you are actually much older than that... an ADULT who show know better.  Grow up and act like one.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-24 03:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

His campaign did make a statement by Bill Burton. Very damaging to Obama. He pushed it and then tried to walk it back.

by Ga6thDem 2008-05-24 04:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Give it a rest.  It was as bland a statement as there is and Axelrod later defended her.  Don't attack the person helping you dig yourself out of your own hole.

by rfahey22 2008-05-24 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Sorry but the Obama campaign pushed it. Obama is digging his own grave with this kind of stuff. 1/2 of party is ready to walk. He's been shoving himself down our throats for months now. The party is done, finito. Dean and his ilk can have fun with their pity party in Nov.

by Ga6thDem 2008-05-24 04:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Ga6th, you are so full of crap, you are probably a troll or a really deranged Hillary supporter.  Good riddance, we never could have counted on you anyway.

by sbbonerad 2008-05-24 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Actually, I am 105 years old and that does confer a special wisdon, don't yu agree? So quit fucking with your elders and listen up.

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

Respect is earned... not given.  Act like a fucking adult and maybe you'll be given some respect.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-24 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [Updated x2]

"Special" is an appropriate way to describe it, but not in the way you meant it.

by uprollysuck 2008-05-24 08:25AM | 0 recs
This diary is a disgrace.

That is all. (Oh, except that it is unbearable to physically read thanks to the dozens of one sentence paragraphs.)

by mikeplugh 2008-05-24 04:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary

I see from several diaries this morning that Robert Kennedy Jr. has issued a statement in support of Hillary and the comments she made. Enough with the fake outrage people. Linfar, thanks for the diary and for sharing your personal experience.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-24 05:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary

Linfar is a liar and deranged!

grlpat, why didn't you support counting FL and MI six months ago?  A bit disingenious, I say.

by sbbonerad 2008-05-24 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary

This diary is full of fake outrage directed towards Obama.  Maybe you could say a few words about that.

by map 2008-05-24 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary

Your welcome. No one respected or "loved" Bobby Kennedy more--and this blatant slime of Hillary over her completely innocent comment is Not OK!

by linfar 2008-05-24 06:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [SAT Update]

She offended Americans, not just the Kennedys, and yet the best she can muster is "regret" if her comments "caused offense?"

Get out of the denial and rage pits, people

This is over

by fightbull 2008-05-24 07:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [SAT Update]

Well, she made a truthful statement.  It may not have been a pleasant reminder of what all can happen from month to month during difficult times, but I do notice that so many of the attacks on Hillary (and Bill) have to do with truthful statements where the context was sensitive.

The absolute truth is that anything could happen to either of them. This campaign has generated so much turmoil and ill-will that some home grown nut who doesn't care if he/she is caught could cause serious problems. (I was amazed at how minimal security was at the HIllary events I have attended.)  BUT, far more likley is that some of Obama Teflon will not longer hold.  The stuff still coming out is shocking.

I worry about the two final nominees, whoever they will be.  This is be the ugliest period in American election history.

by The Smoldering Crone 2008-05-24 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [SAT Update]

It's a similar pattern...Obama loses big in a few elections so:

1) he accuses people who voted for his opponent as racists

2) he plays the race-card

3) he plays the victim card

4) his campaign starts twisting comments and his lynch mob goes out for blood

we are in phases 1, 3 & 4. Phase 2 will be layed before Puerto Rico primary.

by tarheel74 2008-05-24 08:53AM | 0 recs
The greatest injustice

in the history of the universe is unfolding before our very eyes. It's almost as if all the forces of Evil have assembled and are conspiring against Hillary - blinding young people, duping Black people, increasing testosterone levels in men of all ages!

Yet, Hillary will prevail!! She and her loyal followers will beat back the forces of evil and it's taunts of "It's Over!" and "Show me a path!"!

May the force be with you.
It's always darkest before the dawn.
No surrender!

The only way to lose is to give up!

by xdem 2008-05-24 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop Swiftboating Hillary !! [SAT Update]

By pouncing on this comment the Obama campaign just added the straw that broke the camel's back!

Not only will I NEVER vote for this amoral wimp of a man with a resume as thin as the paper it's printed on, I WILL ACTIVELY CAMPAIGN AGAINST HIM AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE VOTE REPUBLICAN.

I know how vile Republicans can be but they don't package it in a false hope and unity message.

by bayareavoter 2008-05-24 10:33AM | 0 recs
Well,
Good for you!
Now go fuck off.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-24 01:06PM | 0 recs

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