One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

It was a great fight:

I understand something today that I didn't last week. I am a Democrat. And I am going to fight to make this party better because I think the DNC showed unconscionable bias towards one candidate for President, and not the other.

And while I am on that subject--  Donna Brazille can kiss my white ass from now until November and it will not undo the harm she spewed as a pundit on CNN.

But I am not writing to rehash old wrongs. I am writing to say that although I know Hillary got screwed, here's Paul Krugman on the subject I will not ever support, endorse or in any way aid the election of John McCain. Because he is one nasty dude.

Now he wants to capitalize on the understandable ire women are feeling towards the Party. Ok. It's true. We are mad. But that doesn't make McCain the solution. Hillary has said over and over that he is a nice guy with all the wrong positions who would be a disaster for us. I Agree. From healthcare to the environment, from wire tapping citizens to the war in Iraq, from women's rights to a woman's right to choose, from gay rights to human rights, this guy is not on the side of the angels. The angles, maybe. But definitely not the angels.

I am still staggering from the narrow defeat of Hillary Clinton, but I am not stupid. And I do know where my bread is buttered. It is as a Democrat. There is a lot of post mortems and second guessing going on and I want to join anglachel--
 when she writes that she doesn't care if Michelle Obama did say whitey this and whitey that. Hell. I have said it, myself. I don't have any quarrel with the term  whitey. Rev. Wright is a different story because he is like a professional hater. Black liberation theology notwithstanding. And using racism to tar and feather white voters and gin up the AA vote is emphatically not ok with me.  

But the campaign is Over. It is time to move on. I am moving on and this is my first step.

I also want to say that this is a great article on Hillary's contribution to our political discourse called Seven Ways Hillary Changed Our Politics:  It is an excellent piece and I couldn't agree more.

So here's to Hillary Clinton-- the first woman to win nearly 18 million votes in a Democratic Party primary--and to her  concession speech and a united Democratic Party.

It was one hulluva goddamn fight!

PS--If you flame me in any way, your balls are gonna fall off and you are going to hell...

[update on the 'she's no good thread'in the comments: my reference to the Civil War is a nod to the bruised and deeply painful feelings held by both sides after the Civil War. The same could be said of this campaign. There is a serious effort underway to exploit those feelings and get Hillary supporters to back McCain. I believe, if this were to get off the ground, it would seriously derail the Democratic nominee. Anyone who wants to hold on to their bruised ego and sense of outrage in the face of this effort to hijack a huge block of democratic voters is welcome to do so. But you, my friend, are the one who is putting your ego before the best interests of the party. And just to set the record straight. I did not lie. I did not smear and I still think Obama's assertion of a relative at Aushwitz was [to me] amazingly stupid as it was so easily disproved. He can get the jewish vote without having an uncle [or whoever] liberate a death camp. I was outraged at the time. But I am not now. Obama fibbed stuff just like she did about Bosnia. Let's move on, shall we. Or not--you decide. But I do have to say that those who persist in slapping down the olive branch are suspicious to me. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by hanging onto past hurts. And believe me there are a ton--on both sides. Lin]

Tags: 18 million, Democratic Party, Donna Brazille, Hillary Clinton, the fight (all tags)



Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Don't worry John - you might not have linfar's vote...but you have mine and there are more of us than there are of linfar!

by lb 2008-06-06 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Wow, way to step on someone who makes a RATIONAL instead of emotional decision.   Bye, bye, troll.

by lollydee 2008-06-06 01:42PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

"Don't worry, John."

McTroll. You must have loved his speech the other night.

by JoeW 2008-06-06 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

2-ranked by indus.

by BishopRook 2008-06-06 02:36PM | 0 recs
Two ranked by

soyousay,this person is saying that voting for McCain is good and indus and soyousay mojoed it.  I do hope it was an error.

by Student Guy 2008-06-06 04:02PM | 0 recs

In coming!

by elrod 2008-06-06 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

"Thats not change WE can believe in." hardy har har.

What a loser.  Go on vote for him. That speech was more damaging that any lobbyist or pastor ties. That was a defining moment.  Just go.

by Iago 2008-06-06 05:26PM | 0 recs
Funny thing is,

People making the McCain threat, are only hurting themselves.
They're not hurting us, we'll deal with out disappointment, and vote downticket dem whenever possible. They're certainly not hurting Barack, the Obamas are rich, and will do just fine in a republican directed economy.
So unless the ones making these threats are multi-millionaires, I hope they're prepared for what they're wishing on themselves.

And Linfar, great diary, your ability to see beyond yourself to the big picture,is indicative of a noble   soul.


by Maori 2008-06-06 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Funny thing is,

Maori, peace to you too and thank you. I would love to be a noble soul--but I'll settle for an honest one.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'm glad to hear you're not crossing over, linfar.

by jdusek 2008-06-06 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Nope. Never

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I was pulling for ya Linfar, hoping you wouldn't be duped into supporting the wrong side come november.  I appreciate your ardent support, and I hope you can use some of that support, if not for Clinton, for her causes that in many ways live on in the Obama campaign.

Other Clinton "supporters" have crossed over but I didn't think you'd be one of them.

I call them "supporters" because they cannot claim to be real Clinton supporters.  By advocating all the McCain policies they show that it was never about Clinton or what great causes she advocates as a Democrat.  These people are  anti-Obama, and quite frankly anti-Democrat.  Some, no doubt, were never Democrats in the first place and were just here to cause trouble.

For the record I didn't thnk you were (or for that matter Alegre) but just hardcore supporters that in some cases stretched (IMO) a little too far to defend your preferred candidate.

But Clinton isn't done yet, she may not be the Democratic Nominee for 2008, but she has many years of great legislating and perhaps future runs at the presidency in her.  I commend her on this campaign, and you for supporting her.  This was a hard fought battle and one that made the candidates and the party stronger.

Having said all this, and keeping in mind the long battle Democrats have in the coming months I would just like to add:

Welcome back Linfar.

by Why Not 2008-06-06 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

thanks Why Not. I do think if the women thinking they may support McCain would look at this record they would stop. And I fully expect Hill will really put the kabosh on this idea tomorrow. She is about the issues, all the time and always. McCain is such a Bad, bad idea.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:49PM | 0 recs
Nice update


How the hell do you sleep knowing how badly you have, and are, smearing a strong, intelligent, successful woman?

You call yourself a feminist yet you are playing these sick underhanded misogynistic republican games.

You are helping do to a democratic woman what the GOP have tried to do to EVERY SINGLE one of our Nominee's wives.

Is Michelle Obama not someone our daughters should look up to?

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:00PM | 0 recs
Great reading, Linfar
Glad atleast you haven't been tossed out!
Next week, I'll be independent.
by layer cake 2008-06-06 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice update

Um, this isn't about linfar or Alegre or Texasdarlin', oh but wait - YOUR signature says exactly what you are fishing for here.

I, frankly, have some disdain for linfar even now but it don't matter now it don't matter one wee bit it is a fleck of feeling, a leftover of a leftover.

Linfar, aim those cannons at McCain and get on with it.

by Iago 2008-06-06 05:15PM | 0 recs
Trojan Horse Diary

Linfar couldn't help but insert these in her Trojan Horse diary:

DNC showed unconscionable bias
Donna Brazille can kiss my white ass
Michelle Obama and rumored whitey comment
Rev. Wright
Obama's assertion of a relative at Aushwitz
Obama fibbed stuff (meaning he is a liar)

by ImpeachBushCheney 2008-06-06 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

It was great to read this. Honestly, this past week at MyDD has made me happier than I've been in quite a while regarding politics.

It's like a fractured family coming back together--sure, some members still have bruised feelings, others are still wary--but in the end, it's family that binds us.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-06 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Yeah, a wonderful family in which one member calls out the other as a racist, and gladly exploits demeaning, sexist talk.

That kind of great family.

by frankly0 2008-06-06 08:09PM | 0 recs
Very cool

And let me just say as an Obama supporter that I agree we need to revise the primary system so this sort of contraversy does not happen again (or at least is much less likely).  I won't claim to know what the answer is, but I hope we all as Democrats can come together and work on the solution from positions of mutual respect, even when we disagree about how things went down and how we might fix things.


by protothad 2008-06-06 03:52PM | 0 recs
Props, linfar!

The diary is wonderful, thank you! I wish I could give you a million mojos for it!

by sricki 2008-06-06 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Props, linfar!

Thanks sricki. I'm glad we ae on the same side.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:52AM | 0 recs
I am!

by CoyoteCreek 2008-06-06 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!
Hey, I always knew I can trust you linfar!
by DemAC 2008-06-06 11:29PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Three Cheers For Linfar!  I totally didn't see this coming.  I really didn't.

Although we have definitely disagreed in the past and will certainly disagree in the future, I am glad you are on our side and you didn't go Lieberman on us.

by CAchemist 2008-06-06 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Lieberman is a turd. Has been for awhile. Obama is pissed now because he supported  Lieberman against Lamont.

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Man I would be too if I stuck my neck out like that and got my support thrown in my face.  I am pretty sure Obama had a "screw me once, shame on you...not gonna fool me twice" talk with him.

by kasjogren 2008-06-06 02:07PM | 0 recs
You just can't help yourself can you

I have to assume someone that pays as close attention as you do knows that isn't true.

Lamont even said as much when he unequivocally endorsed Obama.

People here might be being nice because they hope to see a better linfar return, but there is no better linfar. The things you have said come from a very dark place deep inside of you.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re: You just can't help yourself can you

Snarky--are you Bob Johnson?? Your vitriol is bottomless and rather amazing. People were amazed when Lamont endorsed Obama because Obama did support Lieberman. Look it up!!

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:52PM | 0 recs
I don't have to look it up.

You made the claim even though you KNOW it is false.

(AP) Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, a vocal defender of Sen. Joe Lieberman earlier this year, is urging Connecticut voters to rally behind his rival, Ned Lamont.

The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message Thursday praising Lamont.

"Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass-roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election," Obama wrote. "Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign."

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: You just can't help yourself can you

Obama did endorse Lieberman in the primary. It was one of the earliest instances where I remember being really angry with Obama.

He later endorsed Lamont in the general.

Look, I understand your mistrust. No one's saying that we must all instantly brainwash ourselves, hold hands and pretend nothing untoward ever happened here these past few months. There were plenty of arguments, insults, smears and trolling (on both sides).

We were begging for unity during these last few months. Now that people are coming back into the fold, we're going to spurn them? I don't need linfar to make some grand apology. I don't care about past diaries or anything else. As far as I'm concerned, the slate is clean. I just want all of us here to be united against McCain.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-06 04:02PM | 0 recs
They are still happening.

That's the problem.

She isn't stopping.

I am not about to tell Candiangirl to fly a kite or repent. But I did give her a hard time, at the time she was making snide remarks.

There are two levels here. Linfar and the hillis44 NQ crowd have engendered a lot of hate and tried to use it to defeat a democrat.

That isn't acceptable in the democratic party, and it should be on democratic websites.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: They are still happening.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting this diary is a bait-and-switch (i.e., "We should support the Democrat even if his wife hates whitey.") I really don't read it that way at all. I don't expect linfar to lose all vestiges of her former anti-Obama stance in the course of one diary. Of course there will be some rough edges that will hopefully be smoothed as we move toward November.

For that matter, I've also seen fellow Obama supporters write unity diaries that included awkward statements they probably didn't even realize could cause offense to Hillary supporters. It happens. We're all extremely attuned to slights against our candidate, and it's easy to overlook the big picture because of it.

And besides, what are you going to accomplish? You're going to force linfar to leave? And if she doesn't, then what? C' one's in the mood anymore for all the negativity.

Let Larry Johnson and the hillaris44 crew stew in their own anger. But as far as the people who post here, we need to move on already.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-06 04:31PM | 0 recs

I don't want her gone.

I want actions to have consequences.

Her bread is buttered as a democrat she says. Well this democrat says she should get much less butter, and none until she apologizes.

If you can point me to Obama bloggers you think need a scolding for their primary behavior I'd love to have a look.

Here's the deal. :)

If linfar writes a passionate diary in defense of Michelle Obama all is forgiven on my end.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok

What consequences, exactly, do you think are appropriate for a poster who has vigorously supported an excellent Democratic candidate? If it's all right with the site's mods, you should have no problem with it either.  

And accusing her of being a "traitor to the Democrats" or whatever -- a ridiculous charge on the face of it -- is exactly the sort of behavior likely to encourage Clinton supporters to give Obama a pass.

If you truly supported your candidate, you would welcome back Linfar with open arms and cheer on her decision, instead of demanding she write a letter of apology to Michelle Obama just to make you happier before you would oh-so-graciously deign to allow her to vote Democrat.  Your happiness is irrelevent -- you're already voting for Obama (I assume. Unless you're a clever Rethug troll.)  Linfar's happiness, on the other hand, means another vote for Obama.

But by all means, if you want Obama to lose, you just keep nursing your snit instead of sensibly cheering Obama gaining another vote.  

Seriously, what is it you are after? "If Linfar won't write a letter lauding Michelle Obama, I don't think she should be allowed to vote Democrat!"? That's so backward and counterproductive I can hardly believe it. (Although, seeing all the mindless opposition to Clinton as Obama's VP, I'm finding it easier and easier to believe this kind of atrocious behavior.)

Incidentally, while I'm not voting for McCain, I'm still on the fence about Obama. I've voted for the Democrat in every presidential election since I turned 18. This may well be the first year I deliberately stay home -- or write in Hillary.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok

Agreed (well, with everything but the last four sentences).

But for what it's worth, opposition to Hillary for VP isn't mindless. Many (or even most) of us against it feel that way not for personal reasons, but because it contradicts Obama's message. If you want to bill yourself as an outsider/change candidate, then you need to select someone who matches that message. It's not that we hate Hillary, or that the Clinton presidency sucked. It's just that we also want some different faces in a Democratic administration. (And yes, then there also those who just think Hillary is teh devil!!!1!!)

I'm not sure if that explains things any better or just makes it worse. But whether Hillary should be VP is a completely different issue than how we welcome angered Clinton supporters back into the fold.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-07 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Ok

Obama's not going to get the chance to change anything if he doesn't get elected. It's as simple as that.

And I find this "Hillary isn't for change!" attitude to be puzzling. She's definitely for changes in health care, environment, and tons of other issues liberals care about. She and Obama are almost identical on policy. What "change" is he for that she is against?

by Michigoose 2008-06-07 08:54PM | 0 recs
Hey Lin, can I still be mad at you

Hey Lin, can I still be mad at you, but at the same time be impressed at your diary?

Because that's the case. Hard feelings run deep.

But as I've said before, no matter who won the nomination I am voting (D) up and down the ballot in November.

And that surely included Hillary. Despite my anger at some of her supporters(and even her sometimes), I can respect her passion and passionate supporters. I've never seen a candidate as fierce and dedicated.

That's the best I can do right now.  :-P

by DaveDial 2008-06-06 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey Lin, can I still be mad at you

DaveDial, Sounds good to me. Healing takes time and mostly requires we all stop picking at the scabs.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:49AM | 0 recs
Actually I did

her post on a real issue that matters, Wolves, showed that she cares about the country.  Things can get heated in a primary battle and people can say things that are over the line (I know that I have), but when the chips are down people make smart decisions, this is why I know alegre also won't be jumping to John McCain's camp because it was about the issues for her too.

To linfar:  TomWatson had a good post up on his blog  (I've been a fan of his since around April).

One last word, tipped and recced.

by Student Guy 2008-06-06 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Actually I did

I didn't see this coming, but the post about wolves really changed my mind about linfar. It was a great post and so is this one.

The primary season was way too long and really sucked. But, it's finally, finally over.

by pomology 2008-06-06 01:57PM | 0 recs

That was a great post. My sentiments exactly.

by 79blondini 2008-06-06 01:59PM | 0 recs

I'll even bet her next post won't mention Rev. Wright.

by ImpeachBushCheney 2008-06-06 02:07PM | 0 recs
I think you're right on Alegre

and I said something similar earlier. In her time and words though. I just don't see her fighting for McCain's issues.

by Travis Stark 2008-06-06 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Actually I did

Oh for certain, alegre will be back to fight with us.  I heard her on that Clinton blogger conference call and if nothing else, there is NO QUESTION she holds the highest admiration for Hillary.

alegre will march with Hillary and US.

by neonplaque 2008-06-06 02:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Actually I did

Thanks SG. I appreciate your efforts to remain fair and balanced albeit partisan.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:14PM | 0 recs
It is tough to remain non-partisan

in these kinds of races.  I honestly don't know how those who were managed it.  

I will be making an apology post later this evening for my lapses in judgment (brought on my a poll in a diary where I apologize for bring shame to myDD as I was cited on third party watch).

But Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner had it right in his sentiments correct about how we've been calling for unity.  There are things on both sides that will take time to heal and I hope to help heal the wounds (I know there are some) I've caused with my huge apology diary later tonight.  In your honor I am increasing my donations I'll be making tomorrow a little further and also giving to what you suggested to GreenHills (Defenders of Wildlife).  It won't be much as I am a med student and thus not rich yet, but it will help.

by Student Guy 2008-06-06 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Welcome to the dark side, we have cookies!!

by lollydee 2008-06-06 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

With sprinkles??

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:49PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I just got my nutgrinder attachment for my kitchen-aid stand mixer if you want some coconut almond ones!

Now I just want the sausage maker attachment

by kasjogren 2008-06-06 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Rainbow!!!!!  :D

by lollydee 2008-06-06 02:31PM | 0 recs
Will you apologize

for the smears and lies?

Why do you insist on validating the whitey smear still?

Do I care if you vote for McCain? Ha!

You have been in part responsible for the irrational hate, and lobotomized ignorance coming from hillary supporters. Are you prepared to own up to it and apologize? Work to undo some of that damage?

Or are you expecting to come back for more butter for that bread hoping we all forget what a horrible person you had become when you thought your interests necessitated it.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

Not helpful.

by GreenHills 2008-06-06 01:49PM | 0 recs
in your opinion.

Victims of abuse should not be thankful the abuser has stopped.

A vicious liar and smear merchant shouldn't be thanked for stopping the lies and smears.

Linfar and the others need to confess and ask for forgiveness.

If you don't need it, fine.

I do. Otherwise it is more bullshit coming from an unrepentant bullshitter.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: in your opinion.

There is nothing to be gained by forcing someone to earn forgiveness. We are in a period of amnesty.

by vcalzone 2008-06-06 01:56PM | 0 recs

Are you blind?

Look at the line about whitey in this very piece.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for clinton supporters that passionately advocated for their candidate.

The linfar goon squad will get "amnesty", but only after admitting the mistakes and stopping them.

Get it?

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Amnesty?

If that's how you need to do it, then I can't stop you. I'm going to let it go and take linfar at her word. The more that people see prominent anti-Obama Democrats following their party and their preferred candidate, the better we will do. But we don't get anywhere by punishing people who want to help.

by vcalzone 2008-06-06 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Amnesty?

Is linfar helping here?

When I see a Pro Obama piece I'll believe this is anything other than as I have already characterized it.

Us supposed to be grateful she has stopped lying about our nominee.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: in your opinion.

Grow up.

You're too old to be in children's diapers and not old enough to be in adult ones.

by reggie44pride 2008-06-06 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: in your opinion.

By comparing yourself to a victim of abuse you are in fact disrespecting those of us who have been victims of real abuse.  And by making this personal you are engaging in the very attitude that you are claiming to be angry at linfair about.  

by JustJennifer 2008-06-06 02:45PM | 0 recs
The road to peace starts with one's own actions

Years ago I had a falling out with a sibling.  I refused to speak to the person until they apologized.  This went on for some time, until I realized the terrible pain our fight was causing my elderly, ailing mother.  I also realized their was a hardening knot of pain within myself over the whole thing.  It finally dawned on me that our fight had larger ramifications than the thing we had fought over (no matter how right I thought I was).   I finally swallowed my pride and made peace.  In the process,  we were finally able to really talk about the roots of our disagreement and reach some understanding of each others viewpoint.

I don't agree with the idea that the nomination was 'stolen' from Clinton... but I can understand that someone with a different perspective on the primary system and how it should work might feel that way.  At the very least, the fact that we have a system that can permit this sort of contraversy points to something with room for improvement.  After we get done kicking McCains butt, I hope all us Dems, regardless of who we supported, can get together and work on improving the primary process.


by protothad 2008-06-06 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

Pretty sad when conservatives are more honorable than the so-called progressives here: ost/?q=Mzc3ZWNhNThmM2JhMzliZDUxMWNmMmU5M 2ZiNmM1YTY=

by Bush Bites 2008-06-07 02:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

The primary campaign is over doofus--just like the Civil War. Everyone has to let go a little and get on board the Democratic Party wagon. If you can't see the importance of uniting over fighting--I think you are more elephanbt than donkey

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:51PM | 0 recs
Of course I can

But not with YOU.

Not until YOU apologize for your actions.

YOU might want to write them off as vigorous campaigning but I won't.

The unity has already been established by the actions of respectable high profile Clinton supporters.

You and your hit squad on the other hand need to make good or fuck off.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 01:58PM | 0 recs

We are busy moving the very lines you just stepped across. Calm down.

by RNinNC 2008-06-06 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Of course I can

Still not helpful.

I'm not demanding any apologies from Clinton supporters or Sen. Clinton, nor do I expect them to be demanded of me.

The bruised feelings will pass.

by neonplaque 2008-06-06 02:04PM | 0 recs
You aren't getting it.

I don't have bruised feeling.

Neither does my candidate who just won.

I do however know that we have a much harder time in November because of the amoral lies and smears people like linfar thought it politically expedient to use.

The rnc is already using Clinton's words against Obama, and I already have to defend Obama in my real life against a lot of the shit people like linfar buttered her bread with.

It will make things much easier to have these people totally discredit the lies THEY spread.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: You aren't getting it.

Forgiveness is a virtue.

"I do however know that we have a much harder time in November because of the amoral lies and smears people like linfar thought it politically expedient to use."

This makes me sad and some of the things linfar has said have disgusted me beyond belief.

But, read the line about what she realizes now and didn't realize last week. It seems to be that she will support Obama and campaign hard for him. So, just let her be.

by pomology 2008-06-06 02:15PM | 0 recs
When I see a pro Obama diary

I will.

Right now this diary is her 'standing down'.

But not until she gets in one last shot.

You do remember the diary she did on Obama's Auschwitz lie don't you?

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:24PM | 0 recs
by Student Guy 2008-06-06 02:28PM | 0 recs
i saw it

And we will have to disagree on whether these people should be allowed to speak for the progressives again.

Neither of us has any say of course but she will not be welcomed back by people like me before she makes good.

Follow our candidates lead.

Do you think he pulled lieberman aside to ask him nicely to stop his bullshit?

I doubt it.

Did you read the piece (can't remember by who) that explained why Obama isn't going to spend much time wooing Clinton supporters?

These people need to be made an example of. Liars and character assassins are not welcome in the party, and especially those that feel no way about doing it to another Dem if it will further their political agenda.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: i saw it

Who the hell are you to determine who belongs in this party?  

by JustJennifer 2008-06-06 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: When I see a pro Obama diary

Yes, and it made me sick.

It kept me shaking for days (because that's what happens when I think too much about the Holocaust.)

But please, give her time. Insulting her won't get anywhere.

by pomology 2008-06-06 02:30PM | 0 recs
Your right, I don't get it.

When an former opponent takes a step toward peace and unity, you don't smack them in the face just because the step wasn't as big as you would like... not unless the real goal is to shove them away and create more division.

Me?  I am more inclined to take a step in their direction, to stand next to them and try to see the world from their perspective, to try and reach some understanding (even if I never agree with them completely).


by protothad 2008-06-06 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: You aren't getting it.
You aren't getting it. The primary is over. To hell with people in both camps calling for so and so to apologize for such and such. It was a no holds barred knock down drag out primary, not a fucking tea party. This is politics, grow up, move on, and let's all work toward beating maclame and expanding the dem majority in congress.
To linfar, others may be surprised but not I. I always knew you bled blue.
by Drewid 2008-06-06 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: You aren't getting it.

damn, the one time i want to mojo you I still don't have rec/rate ;p

by zerosumgame 2008-06-06 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: You aren't getting it.

All good man. Thanks for the comment. No sense in hangin on to old grudges. Too much is at stake. Other than all the others horrible shit that would be realized with a maclame admin the supreme nominations should be enough to get everyone on the same page.

by Drewid 2008-06-06 09:45PM | 0 recs
Re: You aren't getting it.


by zerosumgame 2008-06-06 10:04PM | 0 recs
Can I apologize for her LOL?

by activatedbybush 2008-06-06 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

How perfectly silly to compare this primary to the Civil War. And how perfectly linfar to miss the fact there's a significant block of the population still resentful about and motivated by the War of Northern Aggression.

by Mobar 2008-06-06 02:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize


by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-06 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

"War of Northern Aggression?"

by catilinus 2008-06-06 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

Sigh.  Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.  Over and over again.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-06 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

Yes, I forgot the scare quotes and that's almost enough to understand why a person who knows linfar's post history and reads my comment completely fails to grasp the point.

by Mobar 2008-06-06 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

You                              The Rest Of Us
 .                                     ....

Let's move past it.

by vcalzone 2008-06-06 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

I uprated several of your comments here because I think you're voicing a valid opinion that can be backed up with references to linfar's infamous posts. Yes, you are describing her in unflattering terms. But I don't think you're doing it to be insulting, but rather because you think it is an important point to make.

And I mostly agree with your point. I don't know how one can discuss whether a poster who trafficks in lies and smears should be embraced because she's indicated she's going to direct her firepower in another direction, without noting that she's trafficked in lies and smears.

I can understand looking past alegre's more agitated moments, but linfar has long struck me as far less sincere and far more cynical in her advocacy. I don't want her arguing on my side, because I find her arguments are frequently (and, I suspect, intentionally) dishonest. I'm not going to join a movement to chase her off, but I admit I was sickened by some of the people applauding her.

I wasn't going to write any of this, but I saw others HR'd you and pulled the "not helpful" line on you and I wanted you to know that I value your perspective and think it's a fair subject for discussion. Is it helpful to have dishonest compatriots? Should we encourage their voices? Is it reasonable to assume that linfar won't post lies and baseless smears of McCain? Is it ok to be excited at the prospect that she will?

by Mobar 2008-06-06 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

I agree with the basic principle of your post here.  I don't want people posting baseless lies or smearing any candidate (even McCain) especially in the name of our candidate.

Having said that, I think their were/are mitigating circumstances in this situation.  Based upon some of the exposition that Linfar has posted on this site I know there is a deeper reason for the extreme advocacy we saw.  Her long lasting connection to feminism and to the candidate that she idolizes may have clouded her judgment in the pursuit of advocating her candidate of choice.

I too was disturbed by this type of advocacy.  The important thing to remember is that sometimes it is hard to come out of this sort of situation.  The first step is going back to a place from which to build.  Both Linfar and Clinton will have to come to terms with things they have said this primary season.  But to drive them away doesn't accomplish anything.  Both Linfar and Clinton have declared their wish to continue fighting for the causes that they believe in albeit though Obama's candidacy.  I think we can afford them some room to decide what to do about their previous statements.  In the end they will have to answer to themselves on this.

It is not easy to forgive, and it is not easy to come back from a difficult place like this.  But who said this was about doing things that are easy.  This is what healing the party and the nation is about.  We cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater, and we cannot drive away everyone that ever disagreed with us vehemently or we would be in danger of being alone.

by Why Not 2008-06-06 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Will you apologize

Ditto, and the same reason I uprated him.  I remember all too vividly the type of garbage that linfar was trafficking in for the last few months.  It was enough to make the swiftboaters blush.  I won't try to chase her from this site, but nor will I let troll-ratings of one who points these facts out go unanswered.

by XoFalconXo 2008-06-06 03:19PM | 0 recs
Agree to uprate

People need to openly discuss how they feel.

by NeciVelez 2008-06-06 06:03PM | 0 recs
The rules say you may be hide rated,

for attacking a fellow MyDD'er. A hand has been held out here and you spit in it. She did not attack you here. C'mon.

by Travis Stark 2008-06-06 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re: The rules say you may be hide rated,

You are incorrect. Linfar has attacked me repeatedly through her arguments, both in the the particulars of my life and the particulars of my beliefs. I consider her style of argumentation to be a cancer on the public discourse. For me, this isn't about Clinton vs. Obama. I consider her a budding Ann Coulter of the left. And because I value a higher level of discourse, I can't encourage her voice.

by Mobar 2008-06-06 08:00PM | 0 recs
the light dawns...

by Bee 2008-06-06 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: the light dawns...

No. Just following my candidate's lead into party unity.

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: the light dawns...

Thank you.

And she is a fine leader within our party.

by neonplaque 2008-06-06 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

This is very reasonable.

I can understand your frustration in your believing that Hillary was treated unfairly.

But all along I've said that no true supporter of Hillary or Barack could ever cross over and vote for John McCain. He doesn't support the values that Hillary and Barack support that made them such a great (and therefore competitive) pair of candidates.

by pomology 2008-06-06 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Exactly. MCain is a really bad choice.

by linfar 2008-06-06 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Not to be argumentative, but . . . Could Hillary have accomplished what she has in this primary seasons if she were in the Republican party? If not (I think not), why would a Hillary supporter want to be there?

by Christy1947 2008-06-06 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

For what it's worth, though I think the outcome basically just, I want to point out that there are many Obama supporters that agree with Clinton supporters that the primary campaign revealed grievous flaws in the system and will energetically support reform in the party, both with regard to personnel and mechanisms.  This has to be done thoughtfully and passionately, the minute the GE comes to a close.  I hope Obama plays a role in this initiative.  Much type has been circulated on how he benefited from the problems in the system.  I think his strategy worked, and I wish his strategy had been tailored just as effectively to a better system.  As a MI voter, I have already pledged to support democratic replacements for Granholm and Levin.  And I am more than willing to support a reassessment of caucuses and their role in the process.  Let's get Obama elected and then turn our attentions to improving the apparatus of the democratic party.  And I also hope that this campaign can serve as a catalyst for confronting the institutional misogyny and sexism we saw in this primary from the media and from individuals.

by Strummerson 2008-06-06 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

srummerson, what a thoughtful and wonderful comment. I think we will have a better party after we get those changes done. May I never see another dem caucus as long as I live :)

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Caucuses are only bad if you fail to show up at them and fail to understand how they work. A form of choice absolutely at the local level. In many places, where people are dispersed or few, they can work wonderfully, which is why some places like them and use them. Americans are historically hard to force into any one way of doing things.

by Christy1947 2008-06-06 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

That's why I was in favor of MI and FL moving up their primaries...someone needed to force the issue, because the candidates themselves would commit political suicide if they dared challenge New Hampshire's and Iowa's monopoly.

For all the misery it caused us, does anyone think that this year's debacle won't greatly affect  the primary-scheduling process in future elections?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-06 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!
PS--If you flame me in any way, your balls are gonna fall off and you are going to hell...

After this, you're damn right. GodDAMN, it makes me happy to see such passionate and effective adversaries become allies.
by vcalzone 2008-06-06 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

McCain is a really terrible, terrible candidate. So we are going to be allies for awhile :)

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I never thought the day would come but I recommended your diary today without hesitation, it is really much easier to forgive the slights than I had ever thought possible, especially in the face of a common enemy.  Former adversaries can make for strong allies.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-06 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

After this, you're damn right. GodDAMN, it makes me happy to see such passionate and effective adversaries become allies.

Considering how passionate and motivated the supporters of both Obama and Clinton are, how strong a campaign both candidates ran... can you just imagine the fight we will take to McCain now that we are uniting?  He won't know what hit him!


by protothad 2008-06-06 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Thanks for your announcement, Linfar.  In honor of you, I'll donate $25 this weekend either to the Clinton campaign or to a campaign/organization of your choice if you would prefer that route.

I'm sorry that you're hurting and I hope you find another race to be passionate about this year.

by GreenHills 2008-06-06 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I think Hill is going to be fine. Please donate to Defenders of Wildlife for the wolves, ok?

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'll do that with pleasure.  

by GreenHills 2008-06-06 03:07PM | 0 recs
Kick ass. I'm in too.

Not tough for me to do, since I am already an animal loving tree huggin hippie.  Consider my donation sent.  :)

by protothad 2008-06-06 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'm tired with fighting with people whom I agree with on 90% of stuff. How about we work together on making sure there's never a desk sign that says "President McCain".

by Travis Stark 2008-06-06 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Absolutely, travis. Just the thought gives me the shivers.

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'm glad to see your pragmatism.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-06 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Hold on I'm getting up off the floor.

by jsfox 2008-06-06 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Ok, I'm up. Like or not here's a big hug!

by jsfox 2008-06-06 01:55PM | 0 recs
I'm impressed.

Have some Kool-Aide!

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-06 01:56PM | 0 recs
I am moving on and this is my first step.

a good second step might be to not keep rehashing the same issues over again. And to not spread baseless rumors. There is ZERO evidence Michelle Obama ever said whitey... so why talk about it as it if it happened?

by Tatan 2008-06-06 01:56PM | 0 recs
I should say

otherwise... good on you, Linfar. Diary rec'd.

by Tatan 2008-06-06 01:58PM | 0 recs
Why is that so hard to believe?

I have said it my friends have said it. She said it.

But the Reverend Wright did not sink Obama's candidacy and neither will this tape. The only thing that will sink it is Obama himself, and he will not do that.

by catfish2 2008-06-06 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Why is that so hard to believe?

"this tape" doesn't exist.

by Tatan 2008-06-06 02:22PM | 0 recs
see what I mean?

unrepentant bullshitters.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:28PM | 0 recs
unless you can provide undisputed EVIDENCE

that she said that, stop pushing and shilling this shit.  

by shirley temple 2008-06-06 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I am moving on and this is my first step.

Yeah - Linfar, welcome to the dark side and all that, but we've got some rules on the dark side: Like, no repeating unsubstantiated smaears as if they are fact.

Criticism: Fine. Pretending that there's any evidence to noquarter smears when none exists: Not okay.

These are as bad as the 1992 smears imputing pictures of Hillary Clinton burning an American flag. It would make you angry if other Democrats repeated those baseless smears, right? Because I'd be pissed.

by really not a troll 2008-06-06 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: I am moving on and this is my first step.

If it was real, it would be on YouTube by now. Every darned other thing is.

by Christy1947 2008-06-06 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I am moving on and this is my first step.

It's pretty sad when conservatives are more honorable than the so-called progressives here. ost/?q=Mzc3ZWNhNThmM2JhMzliZDUxMWNmMmU5M 2ZiNmM1YTY=

by Bush Bites 2008-06-07 02:01AM | 0 recs
I just want you to know

that tommorow (only then because I will have cleared my bills for the month) I will be donating to Hillary Clinton so she will have a better political future.  She can do a lot of good but I want her not to focus on fundraising but on bringing up issues that matter.

by Student Guy 2008-06-06 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'll repeat what I said when bobswern posted his diary on this same topic - as Democrats, we've all been on the same bus this whole time, just in different seats.

The good news is, there's a lot of room here on the Obama side of the aisle. Happy to have you fighting alongside us.

(And I'm especially pleased, I must say, that you've acknowledged that it was a "narrow defeat," because that's exactly what it was. In any other year, against any other opponent, under any other circumstances, I'd now be alongside you on the Clinton aisle, working like hell to get her in the White House and make sure there's never a President McCain. It was indeed one helluva fight, and I hope that in the final analysis, we'll all be better off for it.)

by ipsos 2008-06-06 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

thank you you ipsos. And it would be nice to think when enough time has passed that we wil all be better for it.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:55AM | 0 recs
When is an apology not an apology?

When it includes slander like this...

"if Michelle Obama did say whitey this and whitey that. Hell. I have said it, myself. I don't have any quarrel with the term  whitey. Rev. Wright is a different story because he is like a professional hater. Black liberation theology notwithstanding. And using racism to tar and feather white voters and gin up the AA vote is emphatically not ok with me. "

While I applaud your effort to be reasonable, your effort thus far is lacking.

by awobbly 2008-06-06 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: When is an apology not an apology?

Give her time.  Time.  

She wants to follow her candidate's lead and she wants to crush McCain in November.  That's a good start.

by neonplaque 2008-06-06 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: When is an apology not an apology?

Well, you're doing a FINE job of encouraging Linfar's conversion.  

What's wrong with you folks who can't even just be happy that Linfar's voting for Obama, but must instead attack her diary? Do you think you're helping Obama?

You're NOT. Knock it off.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: When is an apology not an apology?
I honestly would rather lose the presidency than win with people that push lies and racial divisiveness as Linfar and Co. did for MONTHS. That said, I'm hoping we win. But don't expect many people to embrace Linfar, Alegre, and others who STILL frequent NoQuarter and Hillaryis44.
by shalca 2008-06-06 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: When is an apology not an apology?

I honestly would rather lose the presidency than win with people that push lies and racial divisiveness

I don't like Obama's lies and race-baiting tactics either, but I'm still willing to consider voting for him. I certainly won't be voting for McCain, even though I find him personally honorable, admirable, and competent (for the most part. He's gotta get that Sunni/Shia thing sorted out right quick, though!) I even have genuine liking for the guy.  But I can't support his policies. No way.

Anyway, if you require a "purity test" of candidates to earn your deserve to have your candidate lose the election, and lose it big.  There's no such thing as a "unsullied" politician.

Point being, I don't make my vote based on which candidate I think is the better human being; I vote for the one I think will do the best job at getting action going on the issues I care about. Quite a few successful Presidents have been dickheads. It's not a  disqualification for high office in the US. In fact, I'd say a candidate who doesn't have some dickishness in him or her is never going to be an effective politician. It's just not that sort of a job. A guy who cleans sewers for a living isn't going to come after a hard day's work smelling of fresh flowers. It's just not going to happen.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 09:50PM | 0 recs
You miss my point entirely. . .
I'm not talking about Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, two people I hold in high regard, even if I disagree with certain campaign tactics. I'm talking about Linfar and Co. There is a difference. Had Hillary won the nomination, I would have voted for her, but it would disgust me that some of my fellow democrats were pushing blatant lies, racist comments, etc. for months in "advocating" for their candidate. I would rather they weren't in the party. This is not about the candidates, this is about a few very vocal "supporters."
by shalca 2008-06-07 01:13AM | 0 recs
Re: You miss my point entirely. . .

Hm, I got your target wrong, but the point still stands. Obama needs the votes of Hillary supporters. Even the ones you find personally unpleasant. What exactly are you proposing -- a purity test for voters now? Only "nice" people are allowed to vote because otherwise they'll taint Obama with their evil?

If you are serious about wanting Obama in the White House, you need to realize that people like Linfar may very well be the key to ensuring that outcome. She's a fervent Hillary Clinton supporter who is nevertheless going to vote for your candidate because she is a principled Democrat. And yet you would throw away her vote because you don't like her?

Some of Obama's supporters are vicious, disgusting sexist pigs. Some of Clinton's supporters are racist bastards.   Both are much worse people than Linfar could ever be. What's your plan for keeping them out of the voting booths? And do you think Obama will thank you for it if you succeed?

You need to seriously think about what's more important: Your personal dislike of Linfar, or your desire to see Obama become President. It's possible Obama may win without any of Hillary's supporters, but it's also quite possible he may lose. With Hillary's supporters on board he will definitely win. Why take chances?

So I would suggest you hold your nose and stop being so self-righteous. Even "evil" people are allowed to vote (unless they've been caught and convicted), and Linfar's not evil.  Besides, unless you're a mind reader, I don't see how you're going to keep all the "bad" people from voting.

Focus on what's important: Getting Obama in the White House.

by Michigoose 2008-06-07 01:39AM | 0 recs
Re: You miss my point entirely. . .

I haven't seen anyone suggest they don't want linfar's vote. I think you've missed the essence of this diary. It's not about linfar's vote, it's about linfar's need for admiration and applause. She's not stupid, she knows that continuing to campaign for Hillary wouldn't get her much so she's changed her tactic. Some are willing to reward her for it. Others, not so much.

The criticism of this diary that I've read has been very much about this particular diarist and her history of dishonest advocacy. It's absurd to equate criticism of linfar with criticism of all Clinton supporters.

by Mobar 2008-06-07 07:08AM | 0 recs
Re: You miss my point entirely. . .

I don't think it should matter to real Obama supporters WHY linfar changed her mind, only that she did so.

Why do you care if she changed her vote to get more attention or to be "on the side of the winner"? I don't think either of those is true, but if we accept the postulate that they are -- so what? A vote's a vote, my feeling is you should be glad she's willing to support Obama instead of running off to join the PUMAs.  

A fair number of Obama supporters here seem tied up in the idea that only "ideologically pure" or "nice" people can vote for Obama. But the ballots are secret. They all count equally, whether they come for a five year Obama loyalist or a last minute attention seeking convert.  

A vote's a vote.

by Michigoose 2008-06-07 08:58PM | 0 recs
Thank You

Thank you, Linfar, and I hope Hillary's campaign will lead a stream of powerful women into this process.  I think it has changed the way all of us look at who can be president from cliche (it's America, anyone can blah blah) to reality.  This must have been a tough diary to write and it is a good one to read.

by mady 2008-06-06 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You

Thanks mady.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:09PM | 0 recs
Many great thanks linfar

This election is critical and your diary shows that you understand that. We all stand together for this is one of few remaining chances to correct our course in this country. Kudos.

by lizardbox 2008-06-06 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Many great thanks linfar

Thanks lizard. this election is just way to important...

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:09PM | 0 recs
Thank you, linfar

I've voted for Hillary twice for Senate, ended up with Obama in this process (didn't start with him), would have voted for Hillary had she won, and want more than anything to elect a Democrat, just like you do.

Thank you for this diary.

by JoeW 2008-06-06 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

linfar, good on you. I know this can't be easy for you, but I'm glad to know that your on the Dem.s side. And please ignore all the trolls who want to keep bringing up the past.

by venician 2008-06-06 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

thanks ven--I have a lot of practice ignoring the trolls :) What a bunch of little gnomes...

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:25PM | 0 recs

Like there is no way you could owe anyone an apology.

Everyone you ever offended and vilified was a troll that deserved it.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

I don't want her to apologize. I want her to be truthful. I'm no more excited to watch her dishonestly attack McCain than I was to watch her dishonestly attack Obama. It all muddies the discourse.

by Mobar 2008-06-06 02:37PM | 0 recs

these people have used lies and smears that first required Democrats to accept a right wing national security frame before they became successful.

For Christ sake these people called obama a black nationalist marxist america hater.

How much work are we going to have to do undoing these frames in our own party.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea
Tell me, is there something wrong with you? this a snark?
by soyousay 2008-06-06 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

You and your goon sqaud trying to pretend there was nothing wrong with your actions.

I have a real problem with Clinton surrogates trying to pretend their actions this primary were just vigorous campaigning in line with historical examples.

It is bullshit, and anyone over 35 knows it.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

I only have one thing to say to you; is this a snark?

by soyousay 2008-06-06 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea
You are a Democrat, so you say.
I'm curious to hear what policies you care about. Try to answer without evocating Obama's name. What in the real world make you happy?
by catilinus 2008-06-06 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

I think you are deliberately trying to stir up trouble here. Does anyone know who this person is?

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:07PM | 0 recs
Are you dense?

Of course I am.

I am not hiding why either.

You represent NOBODY other than yourself, and my "trouble' is directed ONLY at you.

When the other smear merchants show their faces again I'll say the same to them.

I embrace Unity. I expect no Clinton supporter to stand in line and shut up.

I expect Obama to make policy concessions to woo Clinton supporters, and I expect him to make her a sweet offer.

I also expect you and the other smear merchants to apologize and stop the smears.

You will refuse to take out the whitey reference from your diary, and it will prove my Holden Caulfield felling of you.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Are you dense?
I agree with him. Some of the diarist's previous diaries were extremely offensive and downright dishonest.
by shalca 2008-06-06 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

Well, I would say "Thanks for being another reason for me to stay on the fence with regard to Obama," except I'm beginning to believe you're a McCain troll and that's exactly what you're trying to do.  

Quick tip: If you really care about getting Obama in the White House, you'll drop your outrage in the nearest garbage can and focus on the heartening fact that some of Hillary's staunchest supporters are coming around to voting for him in the fall.

Don't expect them to LIKE the guy -- it doesn't matter anyway, as long as they vote for him.  

FOCUS, dammit.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Yea

I think with this sort of a response, Linfar would be well justified in retracting her statement and staying home in November, writing in Clinton, or voting for Nadar.

You have her vote. Would you really prefer to have a detailed apology that fits your exacting standards and NOT have her vote?

You've gotten what's important. Try to keep your focus on what the Democratic party needs to do -- get more votes from people like Linfar to get Obama in the White House.

One thing the Democratic party certainly does NOT need is individuals like you putting your exacting standards for "apologies" up as...what? A prerequisite to you allowing Linfar to vote Democratic?

Obama doesn't need apologies. He needs VOTES.  It's something you should keep in mind.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 08:50PM | 0 recs
Admire your loyalty linfar

Don't know how you do it. I am still a Dem but my presidential vote has no home.

by catfish2 2008-06-06 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

catfish, just look seriously at McCain--there is no contest. Follow Hill's lead wehn she concedes tomorrow.

by linfar 2008-06-06 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Welcome back Linfar, though I know you never really left.

Glad you are staying where you belong, in the Democratic party!

Now, let's all of us go kick those Republic's ass cause those MF'ers got it coming!

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-06 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

You said it! And Hill will to on Sat.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I'll rec that.  Don't agree that the campaign was unfair, but I guess we'll never see eye to eye on that.

Thank you for this.  I know it must have been very hard to write.

by thereisnospoon 2008-06-06 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I have been grieving way hard. Just zombied out. But we have an election to win. the repugs have got to go.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:05PM | 0 recs
Rec'd you b/c of the PS

As a guy, should I be offended?

"If you flame me in any way, your balls are gonna fall off and you are going to hell..."

No, because that is the absolute funniest thing I've read all day and certainly on MyDD. Ever.

Here's to Hillary!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-06-06 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd you b/c of the PS

Hi zeitgeist--I really laughed when I wrote that ps. So thanks. And yes. Hillary supporters will be a special group for a long, long time. What a candidate, huh?

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Rec'd you b/c of the PS

Yes, quite a candidate!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-06-06 07:00PM | 0 recs

Thanks, linfar.  I enjoyed your diary on wolves.  

by PurpleMyst 2008-06-06 02:46PM | 0 recs
Anything goes!

It's amazing to see all the pats on the back you are receiving for saying that you won't vote for McCain.

No one here is addressing the issue that you brought up. Basically, you said in your diary that even though you didn't like it, playing the race card is fair game. I disagree. IMO, many are ignoring the "whitey comment" you made because you said the magic sentence..."I won't vote McCain." I guess it's... whatever it takes to win, including playing the race card.

Sorry, I can't go along with that.

BTW, you are voting Obama right? Just checking.

by soyousay 2008-06-06 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

that's because most of us know the Whitey thing is pure crap-ola....

She is decompressing, and, as much as you think Obama supporters are thugs, I know the toughest fights are amongst familys.

Look, you may still carry on the war, I don't really care?

The rest of us are now trying to all get in the same boat and row for the party?

The Democratic Party?

But, calling us out for being complimentary to Linfar? Would you have prefered we snubbed her?

Man, you really do dislike us, don't you?

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-06 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

that's because most of us know the Whitey thing is pure crap-ola....
Why didn't you step up to the plate then and call it the way you see it?
She is decompressing, and, as much as you think Obama supporters are thugs,
Oh I see, you're giving linfar a free pass because she's "decompressing." I'll keep that in mind when you don't give others a "free pass" due to the fact that they're not "decompressing." BTW, I don't think Obama supporters are thugs, I think Obama suporters for the most part are loyal to a point where it's actually extreme.
I know the toughest fights are amongst familys.
All of a sudden an image of Al Pacino came to mind.
Look, you may still carry on the war, I don't really care?
This is war? I call it debating. The Democratic Party has always been the party with the big tent.
But, calling us out for being complimentary to Linfar? Would you have prefered we snubbed her?
I have no problem with your support of linfar, I have a problem with you ignoring parts of the diary due to your support. BTW, I just pointed out that there's something wrong with "snark" for asking linfar for an apology.
Man, you really do dislike us, don't you?
Dislike you? I don't even know you. :D

by soyousay 2008-06-06 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

"that's because most of us know the Whitey thing is pure crap-ola....
Why didn't you step up to the plate then and call it the way you see it? "

Because, as I said, why antognize her right now?

She is putting one toe in the water, looking for a little reconcilliation?

BTW, Soyousay? How about you?

You voting for Obama or McCain?

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-06 03:21PM | 0 recs
Everyone knows.

Everyone already knows where I stand. I'm sitting this one out but will vote Democratic for congress.

by soyousay 2008-06-06 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Everyone knows.

Well, 1/2 point is better then a full point for McCain I guess.

Good luck, never really sat on the sidelines in one of these.

I wanted Dean, but I voted for Kerry anyway.

Oh well....

by WashStateBlue 2008-06-06 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Everyone knows.

Well, 1/2 point is better then a full point for McCain I guess.
I'm glad you respect my right to vote... or not. That's what freedom is all about. In reference to Republicans; I could only vote republican if it were someone like Chuck Hagel and even that's a maybe because I don't have enough information on his stance on the economy.
Good luck, never really sat on the sidelines in one of these.
First time for me but Trinity and Friends did it for me...Personally, I've never seen a church transform into a circus. Clowns are creepy.
I wanted Dean, but I voted for Kerry anyway.
I held my nose on that one too. Maybe Obama will be A-Ok as Prez and you can say you voted for him and I won't be able to make that claim.

by soyousay 2008-06-06 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

the point for me about the whitey stuff isn't whether or not it is true--I don't care. It is that it is a non issue either way.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

It's nothing more than a rumor. If it were true though, I would care. Racism is racism no matter how high up the ladder you are.

In reference to your support for Obama; good for you. Making choices for ourselves is what freedom is all about. :D

by soyousay 2008-06-06 04:02PM | 0 recs
You should care

You should be fucking OUTRAGED.

The are smearing the shit out of a strong intelligent, successful, ambitious, vocal, minority, WOMAN.

Sound familiar?

Meh, is all we can expect for you.

Got it.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

To soyousay: Let him or her who is without sin cast the first stone about race talk. I seem to remember some stuff with this signature on it pegging and pegging at TUCC.

Seriously, if you could only belong to a party and support its candidates if you have never, ever sinned in the direction of. . . excessive enthusiasm(?). . . insufficient appreciation of the other candidate (?). . .  semi- or completely pungent and profane language in the support of your view or a critique of the other, we'd have to avoid the system of voting in candidates at all because nobody would be allowed to do it.

Let's try for a bit of mutual repentance and reform here -  even the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in S, Africa demanded truth first and forgiveness later - which may get tough because McC is SOoooooooo good a target and such a temptation to sin again.

by Christy1947 2008-06-06 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

I do not Emphatically think playing race card is fair for Anybody. All I was trying to say is that the idea that Michelle may or may not have said Whitey, blah, blah is kinda silly. Millions have said that word for a lot of reasons. the issue isn't whether or not the tape exists, the issue is that it does Not matter.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Anything goes!

Of course.


Who cares there are pictures of Hillary Clinton burning the American flag.

We've ALL done that before.

These woman hating republicans are just, you know...


by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

You've said it.  Now, my turn.  Much as the loss hurts, this life long democrat could never vote Republican.

by snarbagel 2008-06-06 02:50PM | 0 recs
Weird feeling...

... I just pulled the trigger on a rec for one of linfar's diaries ...

Your earlier diaries left a lot of bruised feelings in their wake, and you and those of the bruised feelings will have to deal with those as time goes on. But that time is not now.

Glad to have you back on board, and kudos for writing this. It can't have been easy, and I'm not sure I could have turned around so quickly and written a similar diary had Obama lost.

Well done.

by Purplepeople 2008-06-06 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Weird feeling...

Hi purple--well, you guys left a lot of bruised feelings in your comments :) smiling thru the  pain. I have been grieving hard. But the McCain effort to derail the women's vote is recharing the batteries pretty fast.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Weird feeling...

Oh believe me, I have no illusions that it went both ways.

Fortunately we have Dr. McCain to prescribe a wonderful remedy for our bruised feelings and trampled toes. :)

by Purplepeople 2008-06-06 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Weird feeling...

Yes. Nothing like a real villain to bring the warring kids back together.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Weird feeling...

Keeping with the family feud theme... when I was a kid, my younger (only) brother and I fought constantly. Dad had a simple means of ensuring this never got out of hand and degenerated into real dislike. He's let us go for a certain period of time and then he would step in and make a decision that made us BOTH angry. We would then rally together to deal with the common threat of an early bedtime or the like.

Mind you, we still like dad so the analogy does eventually break down... but I can certainly see McCain threatening to send us all to bed without dessert so maybe it isn't that far off.

by Purplepeople 2008-06-06 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

That video was too funny...did anyone notice John McCain in the video? He was the tiny invisible green mouse in the corner cheering on the catfight.

He was smiling while the cats scracthed at each other. Now it's his turn to dart into the ring.

"I understand something today that I didn't last week. I am a Democrat." That is a powerful statement.

I'm on the fence about reccing this diary, but am leaning towards doing it. Maybe I just need a moment to collect myself.

by catilinus 2008-06-06 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

OK. Read the update, and I'm reccing this diary.

We have to make peace with enemies, because there's no one else to make peace with.

by catilinus 2008-06-06 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I liked the video too. Now its time to see the two cats stomp on that mousie you describe.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!
Linfar - you speak for thousands and thousands of us who feel like we have been betrayed and dismissed and left behind. The ability to raise money does not translate into the ability to govern. Perhaps the solution is to elect Obama president but ensure that the Congress falls into Republican hands as a means to balance his too far left-leaning propensity. Great contribution to the conversation.
by pan230oh 2008-06-06 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

"ensure that the Congress falls into Republican hands"

Did you read the part where linfar talked about being a Democrat? No Democrat would ever ensure, much less hope that Congress ever falls into Republican hands.

by pomology 2008-06-06 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

Sad, just sad.

Advocating that the congress should be in Republican hands after all the horrible legislation they passed when they did have control is beyond the pale.

There are moderate Democrats in cogress.  Advocating for Republican extremists doesn't bolster centrist attitudes it advocates the assinine policies we have today.  Elect moderate Democrats if you must and they may mitigate what you believe is too far left, but to advocate the people that have put us in this horrible position economically and politically.  That is just plain wrong.

by Why Not 2008-06-06 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

"Perhaps the solution is to...ensure...Congress falls into Republican handsas."

I didn't read that, I only imagined I read that. It's a mirage. The primaries have gone on so long I can no longer trust my own eyes. I'm hallucinating.

by catilinus 2008-06-06 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

pan--it is over. the primary is over. We have a nominee and we need to begin to heal and move to support that nominee to beat McCain and the repugs. Our common cause outweighs our hurts and our outrage.

by linfar 2008-06-06 03:40PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

"too far-left leaning propensity"

Did you mean to log in to RedState or something and hit the wrong link?

by Purplepeople 2008-06-06 04:19PM | 0 recs
Really... that's kinda silly

first time I heard that one.

by notedgeways 2008-06-06 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!!

I know what you are saying and I've always felt that the American people have been pretty smart in the past to put the opposing parties into power between the Administration and the Congress. It's the only means of checks and balances (although some gridlock) that seems 'sensible'. What we have seen over the Bush 8 years is the ONE PARTY system that is pretty darn scary since there was no stopping an out of control meglomaniac destined to have all the power. It galled me to no end that Reps voted right down party lines to give up their Congressional power to hand it over to the executive branch and 'investigations' were simply not done and I'm not excusing some of the dems who were shellshocked and seemed more like zombies than representatives for the people or the country.

It's sort of a push and shove issue for me right now and although I would like to see a ONE PARTY system in place for democrats for a good 8 years- its' never going to happen.

I'm officially an uncommitted voter- except to the downlines of the democratic party. I had to wait until after our June 3rd primary to change my registration- but after 43 years Democrat I am now a DS (decline to state). In my state that gives me the right to ask for any ballot in the primaries I want. It will always be Democrat- but this next 3-4 years is going to be a very trying time for our country and there are no quick fixes. I am holding my voting decision until October 30 and will vote for what I think is the best interest of the country for president at that time.

by Justwords 2008-06-06 07:13PM | 0 recs
Kudo's to you linfar

It's obvious that both sides see a different story depending on who you support. But you are on target...there is not use in continueing to argue and fuss with each other, lets just agree that both sides had opportunities to do better and as you said...kick McBush the thirds butt.

Cheers to common cause.

by netgui68 2008-06-06 03:27PM | 0 recs
Good diary (qualified)

Super work, but my praise is qualified, see  sentence in your diary below, and truth following.

"And using racism to tar and feather white voters"

-the voters did it to themselves when they said race determined their vote.  Sorry, your opinion is wrong, it is a fact that there were racists who didn't vote for Barack because of his skin.  Racism is unacceptable and people too stupid to admit racism played a part in their decision to exit pollers deserve be tarred and feathered.  end point.  

But other than that I am glad you are voting for Barack Obama.  Wolves are cool too, so good on ya

by KLRinLA 2008-06-06 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary (qualified)

thanks for comment (qualified) :)

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary (qualified)

and please don't take it as a refusal of your olive branch, just a point we disagree on.  have a good weekend

by KLRinLA 2008-06-06 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Linfar, I'm more or less with you.   I don't believe in Obama and cringe at the thought of Obama "governing."  I don't believe that he can effect "transformation" and I think sugary sweet appeals of "unity" and "post-partisanship" promised by his supporters are just two ingredients in a Kool-Aid that makes me want to vomit.  The fervor akin to nothing so much as an evangelical religious movement (obedient, unquestioning, relying up on faith) displayed by many of his supporters is nauseating as well.

But we can't afford the malignancy that is John McCain.   Not only will I vote for Obama, I will work to get Clinton supporters who don't like Obama to vote for him anyway.  I don't think many Obama supporters in their euphoria-filled bubble realize how tough this election may be.  Sure, Obama could win in a landslide.  McCain could also eke out a 275-263 or so win in the electoral college.

Meanwhile, I also suggest giving the DSCC, the DCCC, and individual candidates for Senate and House a little scratch if you've got it to spare.

by InigoMontoya 2008-06-06 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Btw, I share your contempt for Donna Brazile.   If I can ever help nail her in a way that doesn't hurt the party as a whole, I will.   I doubt she'd ever run for office but if she did, I'd support her primary opponent and make one if one didn't exist.   Any campaign she's on in the future is on my "dead meat" list.

by InigoMontoya 2008-06-06 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

thanks Inigo. Funny how one person just seems to sum it all up. The gall to say she was neutral. So carville get the boot and begala--but not donna.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:40PM | 0 recs
And that is a contemptible remark
Dead meat?  Wonderfully Democratic sentiment.  
You are "hurting the Party" by making such statements.
by NeciVelez 2008-06-06 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: And that is a contemptible remark

I'm sure you have your criteria by which you're willing to primary someone.  So do I.  

by InigoMontoya 2008-06-07 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

good commentary. I also think the election could be a lot closer than people think. it is very risky going for a new electoral map. If he pulls if off. bravo. but if he doesn't, we are in the shitter along with him.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:42PM | 0 recs
Seven Ways ...

Welcome to my world, as a democrat small 'd' I sometimes must vote my head not my heart. I sometimes vote 'good enough'. Again, welcome.

As time passes we as Democrats would be well advised  to pay close attention to and discuss the 'Seven Ways...'.

Number Seven 'She Made Us Reconsider Whether Progressives Understand Race'
As a black woman, a feminist I would say the nexus of race and gender needs to be examined at some point. On this progressive site Michelle Obama was pictured in a sexist, racist manner and I know the poster meant no harm. Sexism sometimes comes masked as a joke and racism doesn't always wear a white hood.

by Ida B 2008-06-06 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Seven Ways ...

Ida B, iI'd sure like to hear more from you. thanks for weighing in here.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Seven Ways ...

I plan to, I find this site challenges my thinking

by Ida B 2008-06-06 07:45PM | 0 recs
Great diary...


by hootie4170 2008-06-06 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Great diary...

Hi hootie, like you sig.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:47PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

I appreciate the diary and what it must have taken to write it.  It's good to have you with us in this fight.

by rfahey22 2008-06-06 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

glad to be here :)

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:35PM | 0 recs
I would have voted for "the b***h"

In November 2007, a female McCain support asked him, "How do we beat the bitch?"

McCain laughed and said, "That's a good question."

I didn't like Hillary Clinton at that point, but after watching that exchange, I vowed that I would vote for her in November 2008.  I wasn't going to "hold my nose" or "compromise"; I was going to march into the voting booth and enthusiastically cast my vote for Senator Clinton.

Over the course of the campaign, my dislike of Hillary Clinton turned into outright loathing, but you know what?  I never once reconsidered my decision to vote for her were she the Democratic nominee.  I even had to talk my wife down from a few "I will never vote for Hillary" episodes.

There is so much wrong with McCain that we'll be busy blogging about it for years after he loses the election.  But for me, all of it can be summed up in that one moment of malice and tiny-minded sleaze.

How could McCain "beat the bitch?"  By telling that bitch not to use that word to refer to a sitting US Senator in his presence.  That's how.

I light of that, I've been stunned that any Clinton support would dream of letting John McCain into the White House without a fight.  I just can't understand what could possibly make someone support Clinton so fervently that wouldn't make them oppose McCain with equal zeal.

It's nice to see that my faith in Clinton supporters was not, in fact, mislaid.

by The Red Pen 2008-06-06 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: I would have voted for "the b***h"

I think Clinton supporters need to be reminded about this and the way he treats his wife. McCain is a nasty piece of work, and we have to stop him hijacking women's vote.

by linfar 2008-06-06 04:47PM | 0 recs
Thank you, Linfar...

Four more years of war are too much for me.  I'm glad that we're going to be working together.  BTW, how well did you diary do in helping the Defenders of the Wildlife?

by nklein 2008-06-06 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Lin, cannot agree with you on this one. Why? Because the process was so flawed. If we let Brazile and Dean get away with this stuff, there is no point to even having a democratic party. I do not trust BO. Period. Just because he has the moniker democrat, what does that mean? He's been gliding through without doing any work for years. Just give a good speech, use the ole Chicage style politics to knock off your opponent and get a new job! Sorry, I trust the check and balances to keep the country from imploding if McCain is elected. Plus, I don't think he's THAT bad. Look who we've had for almost 8 years? I will be voting for neither. Yup, it's a sad day when a person feels the only answer is not to vote. Perhaps I'll go Green. BO does not deserve my vote. The fight was rigged!!!!!!!!

by susanclare 2008-06-06 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

You are repeating linfar propaganda as if it is true. That is horrifying to witness.

Linfar knows Obama has led an incredibly dedicated life in the public sector instead of selling out.

Linfar knows that the DNC didn't rig the primary for Obama.

Linfar knows that Obama has worked hard his entire life for everything he has achieved.

Now for the purposes of finding out how you could have come to such a negative conclusion of our nominee, could you please link to articles you think clearly illustrate where you get these impressions from.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-06 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

OK, Susan, you are proving Snark's point.  And you are proving that you have not examined Obama's or McCain's records at all.

You are a low information voter.  Fortunately, it's not a terminal condition.  The way to correct it is to get some information.

McCain will continue the war.  Obama will stop the war.

McCain opposes Roe v. Wade.  Obama supports it.

McCain supports warrantless searches, torture, and absolute Presidential power.  Obama supports the Constitution.

Hillary supports Obama.  Hillary doesn't support McCain.

Give it some time, but please don't ignore these facts.

by haremoor 2008-06-06 06:30PM | 0 recs
I can't even watch Obama on TV

have to cut it off.

by layer cake 2008-06-06 05:16PM | 0 recs
do you really believe Obama rigged it?

I understand that you think there was a media bias, but was it really Obama that facilitated it?  

Hillary had a tremendous political machine advantage going in but she lost the momentum and I don't think she ever recovered.  Once Obama got the media on his side, he probably did have an advantage.  But, do you honestly think Obama did anything wrong?

by ab03 2008-06-06 05:19PM | 0 recs
I would take a dummy with strings

at this point if his hand could be manipulated to sign democratic-led legislation.  And Barack Obama ain't no dummy!

by activatedbybush 2008-06-06 06:53PM | 0 recs
Now the babies have a beef with McCain

Good diary Linfar.  I'm glad to have you on the team.

Let the rest of them vote McCain and have him give their babies bottled hot water like he promised (how bizzare!).

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-06 05:04PM | 0 recs
Nice Diary, Linfar!
Glad atleast you haven't been tossed out!
Next week, I'll be independent
by layer cake 2008-06-06 05:12PM | 0 recs
You have my utmost respect

And I actually thought it was funny you got in your shots.  Nothing wrong with sporting the fighting spirit.  I may not agree but I admire.  Good to have democrats on board this train  - we need all the help we can get.

by ab03 2008-06-06 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]
Thanks for being willing to support democratic ideals and not letting resentment get in the way of helping to pull our country out of the mess it's been in lately. I know Obama isn't your favored choice to lead us there, but he the alternative is so problematic, especially considering the state of the Supreme Court.
Again, thank you!
by glopster 2008-06-06 05:23PM | 0 recs

Obama supporter here, as I'm sure you know.

My intent is not to flame you, obviously, but to ask you a couple of perception questions.

First of all, you say that women are mad at the party.  Yet, close to half of women actually voted for Obama in the primaries.

Secondly, I would understand being resentful towards Obama for defeating the best chance for Madame President that we'll likely see for some time.  But why the party?  What did the Democratic Party do that was so offensive?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the reconciliation and the support for Obama--but I'd just like to know what the specific offenses were that you feel the Democratic Party committed against Senator Clinton.

by hekebolos 2008-06-06 05:24PM | 0 recs

It's one thing to express yourself in this manner here...where you are pretty much sure to lauded for it....however....

I must say that I am far more impressed that you have taken the same stand on Hillary's Voice:

I don't know who you are, but I do know Andrew for the last six months
has been on this website working his heart out for Hillary. And anyone
who accuses another of being a plant--well, you know the old saying.
Point one finger and three point back at you. And this idea that MCain
is ok is hogwash. HOGWASH!! this is a hillary websitfe. She would
tolerate pushing a MCain candidacy. Never. So go play elsewhere.

Good on ya!!

There has been a HUGE influx of calls to vote for McCain...or for a McCain/Hillary ticket over on Hillary's Voice. I am glad to see that you (and a couple of other folks) are stating the obvious....that 'Hillary's Voice' would NEVER say to vote for McCain!

So, thank you for letting us know where you are coming from here....and thank you for standing for Hillary on Hillary's Voice.


by Kysen 2008-06-06 05:40PM | 0 recs

You wrote some of the nastiest, ugliest, stupidest, vicious crap about Obama that I saw on this site.
It blew my pea brain with it's utter despicableness.
It was horrible! TexisDarlin was worse, but you were close behind her.
I could not stand you. I would have troll rated your patheticness if I could, but the Admins here hate me, so I could not. I probably did though before they started to hate me and pulled it.

So you were a piece of work and sometimes in my eyes a p.o.s.with what you wrote.

That being said, your environmental stuff is awesome. Your wolf diary was outstanding. I love both.
So now you want us to be on the same side?
Let bygones be bygones? Fight the enemy together?
LIke the past few months and your diaries did not exist?
Okay.  Sounds pretty good to me.
The fact that you're not one of those deranged PUMA'S makes me think you're not too shabby.
Maybe I even can like you.
Maybe. No promises.
Damn what a friggin relief to see your name and not go here we go again. At least now I can read it and feel good.
I wish I could rec this diary.
oh yeah. I still hate that michele p.s. you stuck in there. it's b.s.

by TheFullBerry 2008-06-06 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Heh.

Fullberry, thanks for your honesty :) We'll get there. We have a common enemy.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:43AM | 0 recs
Diarist please delete:

And while I am on that subject--  Donna Brazille can kiss my white ass from now until November and it will not undo the harm she spewed as a pundit on CNN.

I have no interest in the color of your nether parts, nor do I think suggesting that Donna Brazille would have any interest in kissing them is a particularly helpful, nor unifying remark.

I find the language inflammatory.  If you sincerely wish to help defeat McCain, suggest you don't make statements that can be attributed to those who oppose him.

by NeciVelez 2008-06-06 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Diarist please delete:

If you sincerely wish to help defeat McCain, I suggest you don't start picking nits with Linfar's diary when you have the only thing that really counts: her vote.

I don't get why some (a minority, but some) of the posters here keep finding reasons to bitch at Linfar. She's voting Obama. What more do you need? Not a damn thing.

If you keep running around demanding extravagant apologies before you'll "allow" Clinton supporters to vote for Obama -- well, Obama's going to lose votes.  

FOCUS, dammit.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Diarist please delete:

First - the comment was directed to the diarist.
I have not read her other diaries that were referenced here.  I'm commenting on this one.

Secondly, I didn't demand an apology - I asked that she delete inflammatory language from a rec'ed diary  - which will no doubt pop up in google and be read by people who don't come here, which I'm sure the diarist is aware of.  

Third I'm not "bitching" (though I find that remark sexist).  I made a critique and a request.

I don't allow or disallow anyone to exercise the franchise to vote, I don't have that power.  Do you?

I don't pander.  Excusing or ignoring a sub text to simply win one vote is not a principled position.  Perhaps, it is for you, but not for me.  

I am quite focused thank you.

Your language is unacceptable as well.  Perhaps you were raised to use expletives with your elders, or strangers, but I wasn't.  

Suggest you invest in a dictionary or thesaurus and find a way to communicate sans curses.

No one will be able to defeat McCain by sowing seeds of disunity.  

I have accepted that Senator Obama is the nominee.
He was not my first choice.  No matter.  He is a good choice.  His victory is an historic one, as was Sentor Clinton's candidacy.  Those are positives.  The nature of the democratic process is to have vigorous debate between and among competitors to select a nominee - and then to move on to the contest in the GE.  We are now in that phase, and to engage in carping against party leaders at this point is counter-productive.  

It is easy to take pot-shots at those who are not present to respond.  It is even easier to say things one would not say in polite company from behind the anonymity of a keyboard.  

Such is the nature of internet discourse these days.  But that does not mean that one has to ignore rudeness, or unreasoned debate.  

To ignore is to condone. But my assumption is that a recommendation means that one agrees with the thoughts and ideas expressed in a diary.  One can comment without recommending.  

Therefore I have commented.  The diarist has not responded.  You have taken it upon yourself to do so for her, which I find odd.  

You seem to be addressing me as if I am a collective "you" as in "you people" rather than as an individual.  Since "you" do not know me, or my positions I find that even more curious.  

If you have a question - directed specifically to me, I will be more than happy to respond in more detail.  

by NeciVelez 2008-06-07 02:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Diarist please delete:

Hmm, you seem to have appointed yourself the keeper of the house style at MyDD, yet I don't see your name anywhere on the mods/administrators list. You don't like Linfar's "inflammatory" language, and you don't like my "cursing".  

Fortunately you are not the arbiter of anything here, so I will continue to say "Dammit!" when I catch you or anyone else, regardless of gender (which I can't possibly know anyway) BITCHING. Hot DAMN!

As for sticking up for Linfar's diary, it's called "expressing a viewpoint" and "sticking up for what you think is right."  This is a blog.  If you want replies from Linfar and only Linfar, send her a private message. If you post in public anyone can reply to your comment as they please.

And again, FOCUS.  A diehard Hillary supporter is going to give her vote to Obama.  He needs the votes of people like Linfar to ensure his win. Unless you are actually opposed to Obama winning, you should be cheering Linfar on, not trying to run her down.

I have immense respect for the poster on this thread (can't find the name right now) who said "I still don't like you personally, but thanks for coming over, and I'll rec your diary." There's someone with their priorities in order. If only there were more like that poster, I'd feel a lot better about Obama's chances in the GE.

by Michigoose 2008-06-07 02:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Diarist please delete:

No - I have appointed myself to nothing - except a voice of my own principles.

And you can continue to curse, it just makes you look semi-illiterate, foul-mouthed, and sexist.

You know my gender now - but irrespective of gender - the term is sexist.  The only bitches I know are my two female dogs.  If that is a term you feel comfortable with - I suggest you search here and look at all the plaints expressed against the use of it.  

Have a blessed day, and remember that curses have a strange way of turning back on those who use them.

Goddess grant you a sweeter tongue.

by NeciVelez 2008-06-07 04:10AM | 0 recs
I always

knew you were a fighter! You never mince words, you go straight to the point and say what you need to say!

by kevin22262 2008-06-06 06:30PM | 0 recs
Phantom Mojo!

That is as far as I would expect you to go so soon, linfar.  Good for you!

Now what say we hunt some trolls together (I`ll bring the Nerf Guns)?  

It would go a long way for someone like yourself to help separate the wheat from the chaffe - folks who are actual Clinton Supporters instead of actual Trolls.  I am very reticent to slide into Censorship and Purges, but there is a need to promote discussion with the goal of pursuing Progressive ideas, and some folks either have no good intent or - for whatever reason - will do only things which lower discourse and encourage dissension.

The whole definition of Troll is a slippery thing.  

o  If someone has nothing good to say about Democrats, and cannot come up with a positive comment when asked, they are almost definitely a Troll.

o  If someone actually did support Sen. Clinton but (after enough time to reasonably cool down)  only rants or promotes John McCain (specifically or effectively), at what point is it fair to hang the Troll hat on them?

You have been here (and DKOS, where you would be welcome back) much longer than I have, apparently, so your efforts to encourage honest discussion towards the mutual end would likely be very valuable.

Nice to be allies!


by chrisblask 2008-06-06 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Linfar, you have proven yourself an ardent Hillary supporter (even if I didn't and still don't always agree with some of your characterizations), and that's ok in my book.  Better than ok!

Together, we can do this.

I'm positive Hillary Clinton has a role yet to play in an Obama Presidency, whether it's the Supreme Court, Senate Majority Leader (first woman!), or even VP if it is offered.

by AK Democrat 2008-06-06 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

 Hi, AK Dem--Yes, we can!

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

I don't know who Michelle is referring to if she used whitey.  I am more of a pinky.  But whatever.  

I agree on McCain.  McCain's voting history needs only to be posted, to show that he is a dangerous vote for anyone to cast.  The enemy of my enemy is not my friend in his case, and I wish people would cool it in wrapping their arms around him as an alternative to Obama.  Just not voting is preferable in my mind.  Right now I am not in the mood to vote for anyone at all, but who the hell knows how I'll feel in 5 months.  I really think we missed the best president of a life time when we passed up Hillary for president.

by Scotch 2008-06-06 08:23PM | 0 recs
Pantom Rec

by chrisblask 2008-06-07 06:33AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Not a frequent contributer to this site, but can't help adding my $.02.  I understand the bruised feelings and the bad blood.  It was pretty ugly reading over the past few months...

I'm wondering what we can do to help those like Linfar who are not voting for Obama but rather against McCain.  Here's a thought:

The most frequent concern I've heard raised is that Obama is an 'empty suit.'  We all know better than that, but perhaps some education could help so that we really get these guys on board.  Does anyone have a good summary of Obama's accomplishments as a starting point for this education?  

Perhaps now is the time to start the process, now that Hillary's supporters have  removed their 'love goggles' --not a slam...just a term I use to describe how our love changes our vision/ thinking your gawky 11 year old is beautiful when in reality she looks like a skinny colt with a pumpkin smile!

by MelB 2008-06-06 08:35PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Why does it matter if someone is voting for McCain out of genuine appreciation for Obama, or out of a simple desire not to have more years of Republican control of our government?

I mean, I can understand that you would like everyone to admire Obama and acknowledge his greatness and so on, but there are a lot of Democrats who are never going to do that.

I think Obama would be quite happy to have the votes of people who don't like him much but find McCain a worse choice.

Can you really see any politician who is serious saying something like, "If you don't love me with all your heart, I don't want your votes"?

I sure can't.  

I'd say the best tactic for Obama supporters to use with Clinton supporters is exactly this --"We know you don't like him much, and we won't try to change your mind -- it's enough that you realize McCain is a much, much worse choice."

In other words, as much as I hate to use the atrocious "Kool-Aide" concept:  Concentrate on getting the votes by whatever (legal) means you can, and don't try to force anyone to drink the sugary fruit-flavored beverage just because you think it's the most delicious thing you've ever tasted.  

Take the votes for whatever reason and be glad.

by Michigoose 2008-06-06 09:17PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

You are right, the end result is the's a vote.  But clearly Linfar is a passionate Dem, I was offering a vehicle by which this Dem could perhaps get fired up again.  

Please assign no motive to my thoughts/suggestion.  For the record though, why would you even suggest that I am trying to make anyone 'drink the kool-aid'?

by MelB 2008-06-06 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

The Kool Aide comment wasn't pointed directly at you, but I'm noticing a strange and disturbing trend among some Obama supporters on this site to long-time Clinton supporters writing diaries in which they say they will now vote for him.

They get accused of attention mongering, lying, and all sorts of unpleasant things. Not by most Obama supporters, but by a few. The attitude seems to be "If you won't admit that Obama is JUST GREAT AND PERFECT, you should drop dead because we don't need your vote!"  

This makes zero sense to me.

If a long-time Hillary diehard says "Okay, okay, fine -- I still don't like him, but I'll vote for him. Just don't expect me to like it," my feeling is that the Obama supporters should go, "Great! Thanks for your vote! We don't think you'll regret it," and just leave it at that.  

Instead I see stuff saying "We won't believe your diary unless you [insert list of kowtowing crap the Obama supporter wants to see before they'll "accept" the Hillary supporter's vote.]"  

By making these foolish demands, they risk having these people change their minds again (it's still a long way to November...) and that seems very counterproductive.  They should be trying to cement the person's commitment to Obama, not demanding loyalty oaths and apologies which they are not going to get, and which are going to antagonize the Hillary support.

It's just dumb.  As is becoming my mantra here: FOCUS, PEOPLE! Get Obama in the White House! Set your personal agendas aside for the greater good as you see it!

by Michigoose 2008-06-07 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

I agree with you in spirit to the extent that it is never possible to change someone's mind for them, and that simply winning the GE is a matter of votes - without regard for how they are won.

However, either approach will cause some people to react strongly negatively, and it is unlikely that these is any way to avoid that.  The response to "here is why I think he is good" can be "I know all I need to and you can't re-educate me, damn you!" - the response to "just vote against McCain" can be "See!  You droids have no morals, I hate you even more now!"

Sometimes there are no "right" words to use, but talking is still better than isolating ourselves.


by chrisblask 2008-06-07 06:32AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Anyone who frequently blogs doesn't need education.  They have probably been overly educated about every issue any candidate has covered.  The problems with Obama come from people paying very close attention and catching things about him that maybe the general public doesn't see, and not liking what they have seen.  The media also went heavily for Obama and it is hard to seperate the damage done by the media and the hatred aimed at Clinton by media from that which was supported by some Obama supporters and at times it seems, Obama.  Clinton people aren't "low information" dummies.  We know exactly what is going on in the campaigns and can repeat the issues and talking points of both campaigns verbatum.  The two of them on actual issues and votes in the Senate etc, aren't all that different to begin with.  So thanks for the offer, but education is not needed.

by Scotch 2008-06-06 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

I appreciate the response, but beg to differ.  I've seen to many comments to the contrary.  

by MelB 2008-06-06 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]
Agreed Scotch. And I am seeing now how one
s predisposition colors everything one sees, hears and reads.
by linfar 2008-06-07 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Don't you dare presume that I merely need education---or re-education---for me to suddenly appreciate Obama.    

Understand this:  I don't like the sonofabitch.   I think he's a naive fraud.  I am not inspired to anything but nausea when I listen to him and I've listened to him a lot, hoping that I would find something I could hang on to as a positive if he were to become the nominee.  I don't believe in "transformation" and think he'll be in for a rude shock when & if he wins the nomination.  I don't believe in the cotton candy of vague promises of "unity"; unity requires agreement of purpose, goal, and philosophy and that ain't happening in this country.  I think the notion that we can achieve a "post-partisan" future is laughable.  In short, I think Obama is a fool.

I'm voting for him and I'm urging other HRC supporters to vote for him, starting with what has proved to be an unexpectedly difficult sell among members of my own extended family.

I'm doing so because I think John McCain is a malignancy that America can not afford.  At least with Obama, I can hope for some luck and for some moderating effects of a Democratic Congress that will buffer some of his ideas though God help us all when it comes to foreign policy.

So Obama has my vote.  But if you think you can "enlighten" me so that I appreciate all the wonderfulness that is Obama, think again.  And in fact, in such case, print out this post and stick it up your ass.

by InigoMontoya 2008-06-06 10:38PM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

And I think that hrc is a fake-phoney-ass bitch.She thought it was her right to be president.And you know what Obama kicked that bitch ass and sent her back to the senate.That's what I think about her IngoMontoya.

by redtime12 2008-06-07 12:02AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Redtime12, as in redstate, as in Republican? Sure sounds like the fowl language favored by right-wingnuts.

by catilinus 2008-06-07 01:59AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Yikes...sorry if I offended you.  Think I'll stop commenting until some of the anger dies down.  I'm not looking to stir up shit, just to look for ways to come closer together.

by MelB 2008-06-07 04:08AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Don't condescend to me about the anger dying down.  I get the appeal of Obama to many:  inspiring, transformative, unity, post-partisan.   I think it's all bullshit and snake oil and no amount of time is going to change my opinion.  Obama is the far superior choice compared to McCain and considering the stakes involved.  Doesn't mean I think he's a good choice and doesn't mean I'm joining the Obama-is-Wonderful cult.

by InigoMontoya 2008-06-07 09:46AM | 0 recs
by Bush Bites 2008-06-07 02:17AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

I still think Obama's assertion of a relative at Aushwitz was [to me] amazingly stupid as it was so easily disproved. He can get the jewish vote without having an uncle [or whoever] liberate a death camp.

Here's a picture from Ohrdurf, the subcamp of Buchenwald which Obama's great uncle liberated.

credit - the Truman Library

Linfar - I'm going to say this nicely. If you're not going to apologize, then I suggest you never bring this up again and just hope we forget about it. Your assertion is profoundly, personally offensive to me.

by X Stryker 2008-06-07 05:49AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

BTW, if anyone hide-rates that for being graphic, I'll understand 100%.

by X Stryker 2008-06-07 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Look, X Stryker, it was profoundly distubing to me to see this pulled into a political campaign as a prop for votes. Publishing pictures of this atrocity does not--Empahtically DOES NOT-- prove your point. You are the one now using the Holocaust to prove a point. Don't do that. Ever. And there was no great uncle or grandfather or any Obama relative near this camp. His relative was in the Navy!!!!!!!Now stop it.

by linfar 2008-06-07 06:39AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Ok, linfar. Now that you've remembered you're a democrat, is it too much to ask that you stop repeating republican fantasies? Seriously, that "he was in the NAVY!" doesn't even qualify as a talking point, it's just random fringe crazy talk.

by Mobar 2008-06-07 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

A LOT of things to argue with in here and things that I STRONGLY FEEL you are wrong about in your statements, but not going too in the interest of party unity... except one.

Michelle never made the Whitey comment... no one can prove it or find tape or have even heard it.  Its a BS RW email/comment/etc, on the same par as Hillary having Vince Foster killed and Hillary burning a flag rumors the Right wing spreads about Democrats wives.  Funny no proof of these ever surface.  Obama has called it BS, no one has any video of it and no one seems to have actually heard it.  Its not true, and I just feel the need to say so.

It was a great race.  Both faced some nasty things... he faced some nasty racism... she faced some nasty sexism (ironically there is evidence that backlash of sexism helped Hilary in New Hampshire and backlash of Racism helped Obama in South Carolina.

I'm glad, however reluctantly, you are uniting behind the candidate.  As we both know... he is better than McCain.  To me, if any Hillary supporters want to celebrate and honor the policies and beliefs of their candidate, there is only one choice... support Obama whose beliefs closely mirror hers (they differ more on HOW to get it done than what needs to be done.)

Thanks and glad to see you fighting McSame.

BTW, for those who saw the 46-43 Obama v McCain poll... Obama had a small lead within the MOE.  Looking at those numbers, Bob Barr has 3% and Nader 6%....  We need to get at least 3% of those Nader voters.. we can't have what happened in 2000 happen again.

by yitbos96bb 2008-06-07 06:32AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

"And while I am on that subject--  Donna Brazille can kiss my white ass from now until November and it will not undo the harm she spewed as a pundit on CNN."


" when she writes that she doesn't care if Michelle Obama did say whitey this and whitey that. Hell. I have said it, myself. I don't have any quarrel with the term  whitey. Rev. Wright is a different story because he is like a professional hater."

You can not change can you linfar?
Peddle your racism elsewhere..

by nogo postal 2008-06-07 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: One Helluva Fight!!! [Update]

Please link where Michelle Obama "did say whitey this and whitey that"

I am sure as a redneck...from whatever State you're from, you are familiar with this.

Just because my birthday was yesterday,
doesn't mean I was born yesterday.

by nogo postal 2008-06-07 07:54AM | 0 recs


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