Mother's Day Dreams

Maybe I am not a Democrat, after all. Because, let's face it, the Democratic Party doesn't want me-- so why should  I continue to want them?

I think a lotta women are asking themselves this question along about now.

I mean where in the Democratic National Committee Leadership is there a woman at all. We got Donna Brazile, who hates gays, is more responsive to her race than her sex and backs Obama because she cannot resist the movie in her head called: Triumph of the Race.

And then there is Howard Dean who hates the Clinton's and is a progressive Democrat who went down in flames electorally; but what the hey--he is Obama's guy on the Inside.

And then there is WHO? C'mon, all you astute electioneer armchair handicappers. Where is the woman who is in power in leadership in the Democratic National Committee?  WHO?

SILENCE!!!

Ok. So we have introduced the idea that just maybe the party of our fathers and their sons has abandoned me and women by the boatload for a good long time. So isn't supporting  this party a sucker play for us? For women that it is. Because now Mcgovern, Mondale, Kennedy, Kerry, and Hart [Carter too] are working that ole liberal loser thang All over again.  And it ain't gonnna fly any better this time than it has in the past.

I don't need to be a guy, and I don't need to  possess a college degree to understand that this is a loser strategy. But that's the problem, isn't it? The GUYS and their female hangers-on like BoringBoringboring McCaskill  can't see what is as plain as the nose on your face  to every Democrat without a college degree from here to Charleston, West Virginia with stops in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, New York, and California. We Lose if we go this way. Because the women ain't coming back. And neither are the white working class.  The seniors will leave as well. And the Latinos. Finally, anyone who thinks Barack Obama is going to carry the Jewish vote is smoking too much of the hopium.  They will not support Obama who wants to negotiate with Hamas.

So how many times will the liberals  insist on running this play? The one that goes, Blacks and Upper Income voters will carry the day. Because the other party knows that election gambit by Hart and they whup ass every damn time we go that way.

If we  reject the Clinton coalition of voters this year we are committing suicide as a political party.

But Donna Brazile don't care; she  just told me to go f**ck myself. Barack don't need my kind.

And I think Obama's people think I and my kind don't matter `cause people hate Bush so bad, ain't nobody gonna vote Repuggie.

"No.No.No"-- to quote a famous preacher. It's a sucker play; don't fall for it.

But jeeeze if there is one thing this primary battle has taught me it is what a good friend just described to me:

The Democratic Party could care less about me. They will not find a way to deal with Michigan and Florida so their votes count. They don't care about the women's vote in any way comparable to the way the care about the black vote. The liberal wing of the party has an endless money pot so who cares if all those two-bit  suckers for Hillary don't get on the bandwagon. The liberals are buying super delegates like there is a fire sale on them.

The only thing I can conclude about all this is that money, power and privilege are the keys to the kingdom for a whole lot of  Democrats. Lip service is given to the little people--you know, the ones who don't vote for Barack because they are bitter and too busy going to church and hunting to know any better. But liberals in the Democratic Party are now so drunk on Anti-Bush wine they think they can slide on into home plate without rounding the bases. That's why Obama wants to declare himself the winner before all the primaries are finished.

Here is the reality, not the spin. There is only a 130 or so vote difference between the two candidates, and no one has hit the magic number. The nomination doesn't belong to anyone just yet. So why are so many anointing Barack the Messiah? I'll tell you why, because  we are letting Republican talking heads dictate who our nominee will be.

Hillary--And Only Hillary-- can bring in the Clinton coalition of voters. She can beat McCain and  she can win this general election. Obama cannot win the general election I don't care how turned off by Bush the electorate is. Wright is wrapped around Obama's neck like a smelly mackerel. And the repugs will never let anyone forget it.

I swear after two lost elections and eight years of Bush, I thought the Democrats got it. But if the Democrats are the guys--and a lot of people sure as hell see it that way--we are going to lose, lose, lose.

So Happy Mother's Day,fellas. And here's a little kicker for you from Taylor Marsh:

His name is Will. He is an Obama supporter. He just learned of one of his mother's dreams. It was an awakening.

I spoke to my mother briefly tonight, just small talk, and mentioned the political atmosphere of the last 24 hrs. She just said she loved me, and that she wanted to get off the phone, and gave it to my dad. She is a Hillary supporter, my dad and I are Obama folks. As my dad and I talked, I started to feel really bad about all the negative feelings that have emerged over the last few months. I particularly started to feel seriously guilty towards my mom. Had I just denied my 65 year-old mom the chance to see a woman become president for perhaps the only time in her adult life? I don't think that a woman president is that far off at all, but I certainly wouldn't go around assuming that, if I had spent the last 65 years watching a parade of men take the chair in the Oval Office, and feel like there is nothing to be done to change that. And along comes Hillary, and the dream is alive, and then it is crushed in this brutal primary we've all gone through. I guess for the first time in this election season, I walked for a moment in the other side's shoes, and I really didn't like how my side looked. And as much as my Obama activism has meant to me over the last several months, it suddenly didn't hold a candle to realizing I may have participated in stealing my mother's dreams away from her. All of a sudden, all I wanted to do was give my mom a female president, and do all it took to make that happen.This is a damn tough time to be a Democrat.

Tags: Ask me how I really feel about black people, Barack Obama, Donna Brazille, Hillary Clinton, Recommended, Taylor Marsh, white working class, Women (all tags)

Comments

293 Comments

Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Maybe you do need to leave,

You obviously hate our party.

If you can't appreciate the values our party lives by then Im sorry, there is no grey area.

Your candidate is more important than human lives in iraq, a womens right to choose, civil liberties, freedom from poverty and exploitation, human right to health care etc.

That is where you are with your first paragraph.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I am debating leaving. That is the truth. And what you kool-aide drinkers do not get is you are resposible. Why not bother to read the whole post before you lash out! How many times are we going to play out this charade. maybe you can't read. Maybe that is the bottom line here.

by linfar 2008-05-08 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I read the whole post - and you insult every person in those various "Clinton" groups who did vote for Obama.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Adios, now you and your hatred can get the hell off this site. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

by venician 2008-05-08 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Linfar, you and I and the core demographic of the party DO NOT need to leave the party.   We need to save it.  This may occur in November.  Your emotional plea to acknowledge Women's Suffrage needs to be put into perspective with AA suffrage.  To avoid writing a diary in the comments section, I will just say demographics are legitimate.  So is the argument about experience.  Who will have that argument in the GE?

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 03:47PM | 0 recs
by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

What's your point?  That women are vested in this?  So are AAs.  In fact, AAs turned the nomination.  You better worry about getting women to support Barack in the GE.

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I could be wrong, but I think the poster's point is this:

"XXXX Says:
April 27th, 2008 at 4:59 am
I would NEVER, EVER vote for Barack Hussein Obama he is an anti-American communist! He goes to a Marxist Chursh, his Friends are Anti-American Marxists and he is currently using his Campaign website as a recruiting tool for Marxists and Anti-American terrorists. This is a FACT!!!"

Or, could be this:

XXXX Says:
May 6th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Those communist mf's have thrown this election just like Guam. Bully terrorists."

Maybe the poster means this:

"XXX Says:
May 6th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
WHY ARE THE MAJORITY OF WHITE DEMOCRATS STANDING BY AND LETTING THE AA HIJACK OUR PARTY?!?"

I am just guessing. I hope the poster clarifies the point.

by catilinus 2008-05-08 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Well damn, who said that.

Don't protect a racist, your allowed to expose them on here right?

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Uh, no. You're not allowed to expose them here. If you do that, you will be banned out into the cornfield.

by catilinus 2008-05-08 04:57PM | 0 recs
really?

where does it say that direct quotation is ever verboten?  Libel and painting someone as racist aren't allowed but there shouldn't be a rule against letting someone's own words speak for them.

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: really?

I don't feel comfortable posting usernames from that linked site. 2 Reasons.

1. Could be 2 different people using the same username (unlikely, but possible).

2. Could result in banning. Others made the claim they were banned for outting people. I don't know if that's true. I don't want to be wished out into the cornfield. Lol.

by catilinus 2008-05-08 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Well then, the commenter should have linked to a diary stating what you state.  He linked to a diary by women supporting the WOMAN candidate.  Where did you get your quotes?  From some commenters during the Primaries posting on Hillaryis44?  Should I "drudge" (pun intended) counter comments?  You do a disservice to the discourse.

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

The quotes were from the same website that was linked, but not from the same date.

What do you mean by,
"You do a disservice to the discourse?" As in too much, or too little info?

by catilinus 2008-05-08 05:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

The commenter posted a diary from Hillaryis44.  You scoured the site to find offensive comments, nothing to do with the link posted by the commenter.  Go to KOS.  I would but I find the filth intolerable, just as you have deceivingly attributed to the commenters link.

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I don't understand what you mean by "deceivingly."

1. I didn't make the quotes up.

  1. Only approved comments make it on that site.
  2. No one took issues on that site with those quotes.
  3. There are many quotes on that site promising to work for McCain if Obama is the Democratic nominee.

I really hope you explain what you mean by "deceivingly." Please give me an excuse. Please. Let's not wait for the book to come out on that site. Lol.

by catilinus 2008-05-08 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Where are the quotes attributed to the link?  I can go to KOS any second of the day and find filth, just like you did at Hillaryis44, just to be antagonistic.  That's deceiving.  This post is about Women's support for Hillary.

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

"Where are the quotes attributed to the link?" That is so opaque. What quotes and what links are you talking about?

1. DKos doesn't equal Hillaryis44.
DKoa allows people to post pro-Hillary views. Hillaryis44 does not allow pro-Obama posters.

2. I don't like the anti-communist crusade going on at Hillaryis44, nor their meme that AAs have hijacked the party, nor their stated preference for McCain over Obama.

3. It's dishonest for people to post here that they're just now considering voting Republican if Obama is elected, when they've been posting the same thing for months at the other site.

5. Hillary Clinton has way too much class to touch Hillaryis44. I am ashamed having a democratic candidate even remotely linked to it.

by catilinus 2008-05-08 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Don't leave.  That was an awesome diary!!!  

You're right.  Obama's Democratic Party is about to commit suicide.  

It's horrifying to realize considering how Dems were poised to win it all.  

But perhaps there is a bright side: the impending, devastating loss of this new coalition could usher in a bright new majority of real Democrats who won't sit back and let them take our party down this path again.
 

by bellarose 2008-05-08 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Linfar. Why are you doing this? We all know you are an avid Hillary fan. But political parties aren't about the idolisation of one person. You know that.

If it's because Hillary is a woman, well, you've dismissed and dissed a lot of women supporters of Obama. Being a woman clearly doesn't, in your judgement, guarantee political correctness. And I needn't tell you about my experience of 11 years under Margaret Thatcher.

So drop the faux feminism. Why are you really so angry? Because you were wrong? Or because you hate the other candidate more than you love Hillary.

That's the only explanation for leaving the party. And if that is so, you ought to explain your Obama hate a little more clearly. It's clearly tied up with liberals, men, youth and by the looks of it, his race. I can see no other explanation for this level of vitriol, given the commonly accepted fact that (until recently) their policy positions haven't been that far apart.

Identity politics went too far - it said the personal is political, and by implication that the political was personal. Sometimes it isn't. Civil society rests on the idea that complete STRANGERS have the same interest as us, and if you don't understand that principle, then you're better off in a fan club or celebrity magazine

by duende 2008-05-08 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

If having a "qualified" president is more important to you than Iraq, health care, abortions, and everything else, we don't care if you leave. People Who Can't Let Go of Clinton are not a big enough voting bloc to sway the election, and they're too hard of a sell to be worth the time to persuade. So go ahead, run away from home. But don't complain when we let your dinner get cold.

by Okamifujutsu 2008-05-08 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

They can read, just barely, but they don't want to.  They don't want to read anything they don't agree with, and they want to make you shut up if you say things they don't like.  That's why they have given your comment zero and "1" ratings.

We call that fascism.

It is one of the main reasons I have become completely turned off on the whole lot of phony "progressives" in the Democratic Party, and why I will be voting for McCain, the Republican, for the first time in my life, and I might add, the first time in my family.

by PlainWords 2008-05-09 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You and little egg-sucking punks like you are the reason I will, for the first time in my long life, vote for a Republican.  

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

So you love war huh?

Why don't you tell the next soldier you see that you want to keep him in Iraq for ever,  and then tell him why.

Do you have a sister or daugter?  Well I guess you think they have no right to make reproductive choices.   Oh yeah, and tell her nothing about safe sex or the HPV vacine.

so anyways, enough of my projection, what about the republicans do you love so much?

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I sure don't want Obama leading our country during a war; I know that.  

Plus, I'm going to love seeing you punks get your heads smashed in November.  It's what the Dem Party needs to get back on the right track.

As for my mother and sister, you miserable little Obama fan-boy, both were raped, and both had illegal abortions.  Women have done that for millenia and we will keep doing it until we run the government.  Four more years of oppression we can handle. I certainly do not trust Mr. I-vote-Present Obama with my rights or those of my family.  

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Wow, you need help, first you say you want us to lose so we get back on the right track?

Tell me what is that track, and what is wrong with the one we have now.

We are outraising and outvoting the republicans at historic levels.

And newsflash, abortion is legal, the only people threating it are republicans.
We would never allow that kind of position, one that reverses Roe.
So I dont see how your sister and mother have anything to do with this.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You're the one who raised the issue of my family, because you thought it was something you could use.   It isn't.

And yes, I want you to lose, because you have a candidate who will be bad for the country.  It is of course the choice between the lesser of two evils, and that's McCain.

To get back on the right track the Party needs to throw out the self-important know-it-all over-privileged sexist clowns who are running it.  That won't happen until the Party takes another beating at the hands of the Republicans.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Okay, so how is McCain less evil than Obama.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I don't owe you any explanation and I won't play the Show Me game with you.  Go read the many responses to Kristoph's opinion piece in today's on-line NYTimes.  Lots of HRC supporters there say why they either won't vote or will vote for McCain.  I concur.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

reminder to 4justice, TR abuse is immature and supposed to be grounds for bannination.  Asking "how is McCain less evil than Obama." is not a troll, by any definition.  

"use your words."

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 04:40PM | 0 recs
reminder to you

stop swarming HRC supporters with insulting comments that provoke and I might ease up on the TRs.  Double standard.

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: reminder to you

When it comes to provocation, that works both ways, and if everyone trolls an opinion they disagree with, then reasonable debate is gone and we're back in a ditch trading blows.

It's an emotional time: Hillary supporters feel young punks have stolen the nomination; Obama supporters feel patronised and insulted. Such is life. These primary wars were always destined to bring out identity issues around race and gender.

Accept it: both sides feel passionately about their candidate. But we can't have two nominees, and one side was bound to be angry and disappointed.

But Linfar goes too far when she actively promotes leaving the democratic party. Politics is also about compromising with others to achieve what you want. Trolling people who point this out is not helpful, nor democratic

by duende 2008-05-08 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

This vindictiveness is far from productive.  

You've said that you refuse to explain why McCain is the lesser of two evils. It's pretty clear to me that no democrat looking at the issues could say that especially given how close BHO and HRC were in that regard, so the logical conclusion is that you probably are a republican, and your opinion should be disregarded by progressives.  

I'm not trolling, and if you think I am, prove me wrong, and give an ISSUES based explanation without any insults or putdowns that doesn't involve how he treated Hillary, etc.  Why would you vote against the democratic nominee based on his political positions unless you weren't actually a democrat?  

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You are so wrong it's funny.  

No Democrat is obligated to vote for any candidate just because they have a D next to their name.

If any of us believes Obama is unqualified for the Presidency, (and I do!) we should not vote for him.  We are only obligated to vote our conscience, even if that means not voting the top of the ticket at all.

by bellarose 2008-05-08 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I never said you didn't have the right to vote your conscience, I was just pointing out that keeping away from the issues is what Democrats have been complaining about and is the reason George Bush is our president.  

I realize you're angry and no one expects fierce HRC supporters to switch right away, but we're liberals because of the issues, and BHO is the candidate who will fight for those issues.  Not voting for him, no matter what your motive, is a vote against the right to choose, a vote to extend the war in Iraq indefinitely and possibly attack Iran.  That and many other things that are far worse having a man in office who you believe is unqualified or ran a  dirty campaign.

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 09:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Obama is no better than McCain on women's issues. He  wants to appoint justices like Roberts, etc... He is no better than McCain on people having the right to sue companies. He is no better than McCain on Social Security- he stupidly thinks privatizing it is a good thing. He is no better than McCain on enviromental issues- voted for Cheney's scummy energy bill and is pro nuclear. Obama is just as misogynist as McCain in his attitudes, as this campaign has so aptly shown. So heck no I'm not voting for Obama should he win the nomination. I'm writing in Hillary or voting Green party. I'm voting for a candidate that supports and has a voting record that proves it, the issues important to me. I won't vote for Obama or McCain.

by K1966 2008-05-10 12:28PM | 0 recs
dems can vote for the best candidate

you know.  There are lots of dems who vote for republicans when they are the better candidate, and they still are democrats.  Likewise, there are republicans who vote democrat too.

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: dems can vote for the best candidate

Of course sometimes people cross over.  But McCain is a pretty weak candidate.  He can't even unify the republicans around him 3 months after wrapping up the nom.  

If you truly believe John McCain is a superior candidate to Barack Obama, name three major policy positions where his judgment is better (I'd even be happy with one)

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 09:48PM | 0 recs
putting words in people's mouths

is not really that attractive.  I haven't said one thing about McCain.  I am noting that Obama is a weaker candidate and will likely lose to McCain.

by 4justice 2008-05-10 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Obama's not going to be the nominee because of anything the people who are running the party did. He's going to be the nominee because he won more states, more delegates and more votes.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

What an arrogant pompus ass!! It is people like YOU that will make me vote for McCain.

by nikkid 2008-05-08 03:59PM | 0 recs
smart.

You're voting against a candidate based on what one of his supporters said on an anonymous blog.  

If you care that little about the issues, why are you even here?

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 04:44PM | 0 recs
smart?

can you appreciate that her remark is based on more than what a supporter said?  If you can't understand this, then you have no business questioning someone's intelligence.

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:54PM | 0 recs
and I quote:

It is people like YOU that will make me vote for McCain.
I was replying to the comment presented, not the poster's entire life history and sum total of opinion, which I have no way of knowing.

Also, IMO, when someone gives me a sarcastic "smart," I generally understand that they're taking issue with what I've said or done, not literally how smart I am.  

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Planned Parenthood and Obama worked together on that strategy. I posted the Ex-Pres of Chicago NOW!

I'm really confused by how you can see Obama as anti-choice in any way. Please enlighten me.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I believe that's incorrect.  The suggestion to vote Present came from Obama.  It's what he does when there is risk.  He won't hesitate to throw women off the train.  

He's a political coward.  The only reason he ever gave his famous speech against the war is that it was virtually required in his ultra-liberal district.  He later took the speech off his Web site and in 2004 he said he pretty much agreed with how Bush was running the war.  And of course he actually has a slightly weaker voting record re the war than Hillary Clinton because she has been somewhat willing to limit funding if it can be done without hurting the troops.  Obama's war opposition record is what Bill Clinton called a fairy tale.  And how did Obama respond to that?  By having his surrogates call BC a racist.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

It's not that he opposed the war - its that he did it for the right reasons.

The suggestion of voting present WORKED on ONE BILL. One bill, and you make your opinion off that?

Finally, and most importantly. I watched the Obama very carefully in the Bill Clinton thing. He didnn't defend Clinton, but his surrogates didn't push.

Got sources for me? They would help.

Finally, please explain THIS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8i Js

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Obama has a long record of Present votes when there is risk.  That particular one has been falsely explained as a strategy of Planned Parenthood, which is, quite simply, a lie, based on the facts as they were before the spinning started.

"I watched the Obama very carefully in the Bill Clinton thing. He didnn't defend Clinton, but his surrogates didn't push."

The fact that he didn't defend Bill Clinton alone shows his lack of character.  And the statement that his surrogates didn't push is definitely false.  There was absolutely nothing racist about Bill Clinton's famous "fairy tale" remarks, but Obama's surrogates used them to full effect at a critical time in the race.  In fact that's a pattern.  Almost every time HRC seemed to be a threat, Obama surrogates trotted out the racism charges.  You are indeed naive if you think that was an accident.  It was orchestrated.  People like Gibbs and Axelrod know exactly what they are doing.

Finally, I don't have to explain anything.  As for Lorna, she's a fool and she does not speak for me.  Her statement that Obama is "100% honest" is demonstrably false.  He lied about his role on the Wounded Warrier Act; he lied about Rezko; he lied about Wright; he lied about Exelon.  Frankly, he lies about anything that he thinks will not be checked.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:10PM | 0 recs
Your rage is justified, but misplaced.

Obama has a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood.  Whatever your beef with him, this cannot be one of them, and if it is, you are simply misinformed.

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Your rage is justified, but misplaced.

That was the whole point of all his brave "present" votes.  It kept his record in check.

It's very transparent.  Obama wanted to vote for Roberts but he didn't because--oh, you know why--it could hurt him in the Primary.  Again, very transparent.

by bellarose 2008-05-08 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Your rage is justified, but misplaced.

Obama didn't say he wanted to vote for Roberts. He said that Roberts meets the basic qualifications to become a Justice, based on his knowledge and competence.  And then he voted against Roberts because of the judicial views Roberts espouses.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:02PM | 0 recs
I support Hillary because she is the only

one who has a plan to bring the Iraq war to an end.  You are so very foolish to believe the silliness about Obama who has voted precisely like Hillary has voted on every vote that has to do with this war.  Not becuase he is thoughtful but because he is a follow-the-leader doofus who doesn't know what to do until somebody else makes a decision first.  If you watched the debates then you know how shallow his mind is.  God save us all from idiots like Obama and from mindless lemmings who would thoughtlessly follow him over a cliff.....any cliff.

by macmcd 2008-05-08 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I'm sorry you don't want to vote for Obama. I assure you that there are Obama supporters who want your vote. Like me.

I am truly sorry you have been driven to this point.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Thanks for the civility, Falsehood.  I don't hate all of you.  

The ones I feel most sorry for in all this are the ordinary African Americans (not the Donna Braziles).  I really wish I could support Obama, but I think he would be a disaster for our country.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I would love an e-mail, if you have more reasons and want to express them privately. If you tell me why, it will help me out, and I would appreciate it.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Sorry, I don't share my email with the blogosphere.  Besides, I don't want to help Obama.  No offense...

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:55PM | 0 recs
The 80%+ of whom voted for Obama?

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-08 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: The 80%+ of whom voted for Obama?

90%.  And yes.  They are in for a huge disappointment in November and, for the most part, it's not their fault that a**holes are running the Democratic Party.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The 80%+ of whom voted for Obama?

What does this have to do with the people running the party? Obama will be the nominee because voters voted for him.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:04PM | 0 recs
Re: The 80%+ of whom voted for Obama?

I completely agree.

The only contingent of the Obama coalition that doesn't disgust me at this point are African Americans.  I feel awful they will, probably, watch the man who could have become President have his future ruined by crazed Hillary Clinton haters who pushed him too far too fast.

If he makes it to November, he will lose. And then he is done.

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:04PM | 0 recs
I will NEVER vote for Obama because

he used racism to get 90% of the black vote in this election.  He is too dangerous to have as president.  I wouldn't vote for a racist with a white skin and I shall not vote for a racist with a black skin.

by macmcd 2008-05-08 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I don't hate Hillary Clinton. She used to be my preferred candidate. I switched to Obama in January.  And women hating had nothing to do with it!

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

macmcd - Why did you downrate me? That was ratings abuse.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I agree.  hope this mojo helps offset it.

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

f you :D

by soyousay 2008-05-08 04:12PM | 0 recs
Your comment is disgusting.

by macmcd 2008-05-08 04:12PM | 0 recs
that was a cruel remark

and insensitive.  Your arrogance and overconfidence are overbearing.  Go beat up on somebody else.

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: that was a cruel remark

I think it was commensurate with what I was replying to, and I used no profanity.  Yet you have a problem with that and not with the f you comment?  Go figure...

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:21PM | 0 recs
not responding to you

it was a different comment I was responding to

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I have not left this party ... this party left me.

I will not vote for a man with the LEAST experience of any person in HISTROY to run for POTUS.

I will not reward a party that has lied, cheated,
and used every filthy trick in the book to distroy
a female candidate who has the political knowledge
and long term experience to be president just because they don't "like" her.

I will work with the same determination to destroy
BO's ablity to reach office that this "democratic" party and it's "progressive" leaders has worked to destroy Hillary Clinton's ablity to reach office.

MILLIONS of Hillary supporters will NOT vote for Obama. Hillary OR MaCain ... make your choice carefully. We have.

by IndyRobin 2008-05-09 02:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Actually, this diary is pure spin, finished off with a guilt trip.

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Really - He wants to give his mother a woman president for Mothers' Day?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Ah, hello, does the word Pelosi mean anything to you?  Third most powerful person in our government?

Sheesh

by Lawyerish 2008-05-08 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Not mention chair of the convention.....

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

What a disappointment she has turned out to be:  It's okay for Obama to use SDs to get to the magic number, but it's not okay for HRC.  And then there is how ineffective she has been.  No less than the many men who preceded her, perhaps, but no better either.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Both will have to use SDs. Obama will just need a lot less, and SD's seem to be going for him more than her. Look at the totals since super tuesday. He's nearly closed a 100 delegate gap.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

But he is such a phony.  Do you remember when his surrogates were arguing how horrible it would be to let the SDs decide the race, even though the rules clearly envision exactly that?  Of course he was way behind in SDs then.  And at the very same time he was arguing that we should stick with [Dean's misinterpretation of] the rules and throw out the votes of Florida and Michigan because following the rules [when they favor him] is so terribly important!  What a hypocrite.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I believe he's still against counting FL and MI as is.

I believe his surrogates were arguing against the SD's overturning the pledged delegates, and they still argue that.

Please respond here, if you'd like:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/8/13 3847/8264/196#196

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

The DNC is against including FL and MI as is because if you do, they have ZERO ability to ever enforce any of their rules again.

You know, kind of how you deal with kids....you don't want to lay down a marker, have them break the rules, and then there are no repercussions?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I already responded in a different but similar diary.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You've shifted your argument.  It doesn't matter if YOU think he's a phony; the S-D's obviously disagree with you in large part.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-08 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Actually, you don't know why they've changed their positions, and you can't find out from what they say.  A lot is going on behind the scenes.  Deals are being made.  People are being bought off.  Arms are being twisted.  This is exactly what the media accused HRC of when she was ahead in SDs, but I guess it's okay when Obama does it.

Enough said.

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

And on what evidence are you basing your contentions?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

What bullshit.

Obama's ahead in pledged delagates. If you don't want to count the SDs, fine, that means Obama wins automatically. If you want to count them, then fine, Obama still wins. If you want to count the SDs, count Florida, count Michigan, Obama STILL WINS.

SDs are not "deciding the race" if they choose Obama -- if they choose Obama they're not affecting the race one bit.

This whole post proves you dishonest, and the Democrat party shouldn't be blackmailed by the likes of you.

You have my contempt.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You miss the point, which is that Obama has changed his position on SDs based on what will help him the most at the moment.  That means he lacks integrity.

I have always thought the SDs should vote however they want.  I have never changed.

May I suggest you learn how to read?

by PlainWords 2008-05-08 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

And once again -- bullshit.

Your whole evidence that Obama "changed his position" is that supposedly "It's okay for Obama to use SDs to get to the magic number, but not for Clinton"

That's a blatant lie. You can't get more blatant than this. Obama doesn't need the superdelegates to win anything - if the superdelegates didn't exist then it'd be merely the pledged delegates winner that wouldn't win and he's the one. The point was never about reaching the stupidly named "magic number", the point is whether the SDs could overturn or should confirm the will of the voters.

You pretend to not know that. I doubt that any person with access to the Internet would genuinely not know that.

Thus you're not merely ignorant, you're downright dishonest.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 05:18PM | 0 recs
Obama adding a new rule

Ir's Obama who is dishonestly trying to add a new rule in the middle of the game. By current rules, the job of the Superdelegates is to use their own judgement of the most electable candidate -- not to be bound by ANYTHING else.

Think of the SD's as a state that votes in August. We don't have any rule that, say, WV is supposed to vote the same way as the previous states have. Each state gets to vote their own preference -- so do the SDs.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama adding a new rule

"By current rules, the job of the Superdelegates is to use their own judgement of the most electable candidate "

First of all, do the "rules" include the words "electable"? I don't remember them, but perhaps you can link.

But either way, their own judgement said that a candidate that wasn't the pledged delegate winner wouldn't be nearly as electable  -- so that's one and the same.

And Obama didn't attempt to change the rules. He attempted to convince the superdelegates about exactly that: that a nominee that wasn't the pledged delegate winner would be a recipe for disaster.

Hillary attempted more bizarre metrics to convince them with, but they failed to work.

So things stand as they stand: He doesn't need either to count SDs or not to count them to win -- he wins either way. Have your pick.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Hmm. Yeah, SDs are going to decide this.  

Can I have your contempt, too?  Pretty please?

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Pelosi?  What?  The DO NOTHING PELOSI?  The one who was given a mandate in the '06 election to end the war in Iraq and has DONE NOTHING?  That Pelosi?  

by ChitownDenny 2008-05-08 04:21PM | 0 recs
G. Ferarro said something interesting today on Fox

Did you all hear Ferraro say the a male DNC person told her that black people and young people will be too upset in Obama looses, but if Hillary looses, women will fall in line because we are too afraid of losing Roe V. Wade.

I've heard this crap before but somehow today it really smacked me in the face. Woman are nothing more than uteruses to them. They think they can hold our reproductive freedom for hostage to get us to tow the line and we will just eat this sexist, condescending load of crap politely with a knife and fork.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:01PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said

Exactly. I have been hearing this Roe v. Wade thing all over the place. Gutless Wonder Boy Obama won't necessarity do the right thing on this. Not if enough pressure is brought to bear. He has no principles.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:04PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said

WHAT?

That is not true.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:05PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said

You know who will take away RoeVWade,  john mccain, and his group of thugs called republicans.

Thats who Linfar is hoping to elect.

People face it, the reality is creeping  this next election is truelly the abortion one.

We have three or more judges over the age of 70.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said

Linfar wants to vote FOR someone, and not against someone. We need every vote, and your unkindness doesn't help.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said

If only you would condemn the nasty HRC supporters also, I might believe that you were concerned about helping the Democratic Party. Since all of this vitriol is not helpful, what's the point? I see thugs on this site who are supporting HRC. How could a Democrat vote for McCain?

by futbol dad 2008-05-08 04:52PM | 0 recs
I heard the same thing said

About black voters. That yes they may be angry if Hillary wins, but that at the end of the day they have nowhere else to go and will fall in line.

I tend to believe that the people who are threatening to vote GOP if their candidate doesn't win are the ones most likely responsible for some of our losses in 2000 and 2004. Wishy washy Dems, or probably not even Dems at all.

by highgrade 2008-05-08 03:04PM | 0 recs
Since Hillary really paid her dues

compared to the other guy, if he gets the nomination really unfairly, I will not vote for anybody for president.

All Roe v. Wade means if it is repealed, is that it's up to the states. It does not mean abortion is immediately illegal. I'm sick of the Roe v. Wade threat. My Republican friends say they would never take it away, they just need to say they would to appease the pro-life wackos in their party.

And frankly, it will be a good day for AAs when they do not feel beholden to only vote for one party.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Since Hillary really paid her dues

By a "paying dues" standard, we would all have to vote for McCain...

It's about more than that for me.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Since Hillary really paid her dues
Thanks for reminding everybody. The states will have the final say should Roe v Wade be overturned.
And truth be told, I too am sick of it being held over our heads.
by ProudMilitaryMom 2008-05-08 05:48PM | 0 recs
Roe vs Wade? Back to the states

Thanks for reminding us that even if Roe vs Wade were overturned (VERY unlikely, as a recent Bush appointee believes in keeping it because of precedent) -- that just throws the decision back to the individual states. Getting a federal ban through Congress is ridiculous.

And lets look back at what the Clintons said last time: "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare." The real solution is to find better contraceptives. Hillary was VERY influential in making the 'Plan B' pill easily available; there was a good guest post in Taylormarsh.com about it a few weeks ago.

This is the old Clinton 'triangulation' -- find a practical solution that's so much better that both philosophical sides agree without further philosophical debate.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said something interesting today on

If someone actually said that, it's certainly in poor taste. But that's where we're at.  Didn't Hillary recently (yesterday?) say that if she won blacks would fall in line?    

We're at the point where we're discussing which voters are going to come back to the fold, if their candidate loses, which will have to be enticed, and which we'll lose.  

Personally, I think that anyone who cares about the values of any Democratic candidate for whom they voted will find a better advocate for those values in Obama (should he win the nomination) than in John McCain.  

by freedom78 2008-05-08 03:17PM | 0 recs
Hillary said no such thing

She's been saying working class people are voting for her, and without that faction the nominee cannot win in November.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary said no such thing

She's wining them - that doesn't mean Obama cannot. Primary voting doesn't relate strongly to general election voting.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary said no such thing

Though to be clear, a candidate does have work to do. I'm saying anyone will fall in line - we haveto work for votes.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:24PM | 0 recs
He needs to try

He blew off WV and KY and that is unwise. Will not help him with working class voters nationwide, or other voting blocs if they think he doesn't care about the working class.

Hillary showed up at Black State of the Union even though there was no chance she'd get the black vote. Tip O'Neil says you still have to ask for people's votes, even if you're going to win.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said something interesting today on

But how do you figure out what Obama's values really are when he flips so often, lies when it's expedient, and doesn't admit to things that make him look bad until he had no other choice?  He's the least open candidate I can ever remember!

by mbolack 2008-05-08 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: G. Ferarro said something interesting today on

I'm so not falling for that one again.  With the exception of HRC and a few others, Democrats have done nothing to protect reproductive rights.  Roe has been gutted already.  

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:12PM | 0 recs
Roe vs Wade

Er, what age of women does he think care more about abortion than any other issue? Remember some of us are the angry old white women generation here: past the age of pregnancy.

Has anyone really looked at the current SC and which of them are really ready to retire?

If McCain gets in, then will any pro-Roe justices actually retire within the next four years, or will they hang in waiting for a Dem POTUS in 2012?

If anti-Roe justices are getting ready to retire, they'd have already done it, so Bush could appoint their successors.

Personally, I think we women should be, as most of us are, focusing on getting Hillary nominated. But if Obama gets nominated, then many of us will have lots of spare time to research stuff like this before November -- we sure won't spend our time volunteering for him.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Your disrespect for women who choose to support Obama takes my breath away.  After months of listening to "kool-aid drinkers" this just hits bottom.  I am a 60 year old woman, feminist, have had more than my share of hard times.  Would love to have voted for a woman but think Obama will be an infinitely better president than she would be.  I hate the kind of campaign she has waged too, the Party is on the verge of splitting in half.  

I don't need to listen to ANYONE define for me what validates me as female or who earns my loyalty.  Listen to yourself, "The GUYS and their female hangers-on like BoringBoringboring McCaskill."  Isn't it possible to promote Hillary without bashing those women who do not agree with you?  This just makes me feel horrible.

boringboringboringmady.

by mady 2008-05-08 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

mady, I have been listening to your self promotion of yourself as a feminist enough to know you wouldn't know a feminist if you stumbled over one.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

So, you're the arbiter of who supports what now, Linfar?  Just b/c they don't agree with your choice of backing a losing candidate?

Please.  As I said above, you couldn't even be bothered to remember Pelosi when whining, why should anyone take you seriously?

by Lawyerish 2008-05-08 03:11PM | 0 recs
Damn......

I've started to answer that a few times but realize I am too dumbfounded and just plain upset to, so will leave it.  Life is hard enough without inviting a bashing.

by mady 2008-05-08 03:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Damn......

Don't let them upset you. That is what they want. They don't know you - don't take it personally!

by futbol dad 2008-05-08 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Jesus, judgmental any?

I try to stay away from you, you are a rolling ball of anger, but that comment was really beyond the pale?

My girlfriend works for a health non-profit, for womens reproductive rights?

68 Women in the Organization. about 50 for Obama, about 18 for Clinton.

Now, tell ME these women who are for Obama, most of whom have made a career in the fight for womens rights, are gender traitors?

Go ahead, call me a liar. It's what you do?

by WashStateBlue 2008-05-08 03:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Is this one of the reproductive rights orgs that only talk about adoption?  

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

No you clown.

It's an NGO that works on comminicable disease, family issues and training for small community clinics.

It used to make most of it's money from Tabacco education, but Bush killed that.

God, you are insufferable.

Thank God most Clinton supports are not as big of a jerk as you are.

by WashStateBlue 2008-05-08 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Please don't insult linfar. She's so far from being "a clown". She's a bright, articulate and ardent Hillary supporter. One who I respect greatly.  Look, if all those women are for BO, so be it. I find it hard to believe that they did any serious research about the candidates before making that decision. Hillary is not only a woman, but probably one of the smartest, most knowledgeable, hard-working and effective public servants out there. That's what's so hard for me to take. And I think this country would be better off if we had a competent, hard-working chief executive with a stellar resume rather than a silver-tongued master politician from Chicago who can't even provide records from his stint as state senator. I think only a man could get away with having a resume this thin...and I'm only asking you to really think about this. And please also remember that Hillary hating is a creation of the media. They anointed BO and created the "Hillary is a shrew (monster)narrative" and ran it over and over again. If any woman was really paying attention, she'd be as mad a hell as well. Maybe you can buy a Hillary nutcracker the next time you're between planes at your favorite airport? Any enlightened and thinking woman should be weeping right about now!!!

by susanclare 2008-05-08 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

", if all those women are for BO, so be it. I find it hard to believe that they did any serious research about the candidates before making that decision..."

Hi Susan...

Well, lets put it this way.

Most of the women in that company have at least graduate degrees, about 7 with PhDs, advance Nursing degrees, 5 are lawyers.

Almost ALL have been in the government game for a long time, worked with the CDC, and for admins back to Bush 1!

These women are VERY elightned.

about 20% are lesbian, and about 40% are women of Color.

Oh, and, there are about 6 men that work there, ONLY ONE is in the upper echelon.

It's in their best interest to have THE ABSOLUTE BEST government in there, that is 80% of their revenue.

So, YES, they all did their homework?

I MEAN THEY REALLY DID?

They have to, because they are in the health care business.

And, tis true, about 40% think Hillary's Health Care is BETTER, but many lived through her FIRST
run at it, and they think Obama will have a better chance with HIS program?

Oh, and I see you ALL rush to Linfar's defense, but to me, certainly she has great writing skills, and is very well informed.

But, she is a HYPER partisan, and she is just an agent provecature at this point.

As I said, I usually NEVER respond to her, but I have read a lot of Maddy's post, and LinFar's crack about her not being a feminist was arrogant, Pithy, and haughty as hell!

by WashStateBlue 2008-05-08 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You think Obama would be "infinitely" better?

What was it that won you over, mady?  Was it his full YEAR in the Senate before he decided to run for the Presidency or his all but non-existent record as a State Senator?

Infinitely better?  Than what?  A high school senior?  

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:22PM | 0 recs
Obama should not skip WV KY

It reinforces the vibe that he doesn't care about those voters because he thinks they won't vote for him.

Hillary walked into and showed up for the Black State of the Union.

Obama just avoids.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should not skip WV KY

Right again. What is so damn pathetic is the Democratic Party thinks women will come along because of Roe v Wade and they don't have a clue that women will leave in droves. The Obama campaign has almost guaranteed that by the disrespect and the insults

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should not skip WV KY

You quote one DNC official, by way of Ferraro to represent the party. Uh huh.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should not skip WV KY

Oh hell, I know that's what they are thinking even without the quote.

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should not skip WV KY

Really, why don't you model a bit of respectful behavior yourself?

by futbol dad 2008-05-08 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should not skip WV KY

He's not skipping those states. He has far more field offices in those states than Clinton, he's advertising there and he has and will visit.

So on what basis are you arguing that he's skipping the states?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:09PM | 0 recs
Well linfar


   I can't say anything much to this other than that you sound awful pissed that Hillary lost. If you don't want to be a Democrat, that's your right. But no one's running you, or any woman, out of the party.

  No woman sought the DNC Chair. We have several US Senators and Congresswomen. We have several women governors.

  Women are not discriminated against in our party. What simply happened is that more voters and delegates chose Obama. If that angers you, you are welcome to leave. It's your conscience.

by southernman 2008-05-08 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Well linfar

Is anyone who supports Obama ever going to acknowledge the dirty caucus tactics which is all that comprise his lead? Is anhyone ever going to say, wow. Maybe if there had been primaries instead of caucuses Hillary would have his lead. And if that's the case, maybe it doesn't bode well for the GE.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Well linfar

Maybe if things were different, they wouldn't be the same.

Compelling argument there.

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Well linfar


  Is any Clinton supporter going to acknowledge that she didn't bother to try and win most of those caucuses?

  She didn't campaign for them. Therefore, she didn't win them. Blame that on Obama caucus goers if you want, but if Hillary hadn't been foolish enough to write off those caucuses, she probably wouldn't be in the position she's in.

  After all, when she actually fought for a caucus state (Nevada) she won. Despite a setup likely to favor Obama...she won. Where the hell was she in the rest of the primaries? No staff, minimal volunteers, next to no events scheduled.

  Voters booing Clinton people is not intimidation. Nor were Clinton people immune from such tactics.

  Sorry linfar. But Hillary's hands are just as dirty.

by southernman 2008-05-08 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Well linfar

This is such bs. My state had caucuses with historic turnout and zero problems except for the long lines.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Well linfar

People can't win what they don't campaign for. If they had been primaries, perhaps she'd have campaigned for them.

Maybe if a horse had wings, it would fly. Or then again maybe it would not, and it'd be like an ostrich instead.

Let's be the reality-based community instead of the what-if-based community, shall we?

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 04:39PM | 0 recs
Linfar get a grip

I'm going to take this point by point:

1) You are not working class, you have a graduate degree from USC so that alone makes you an "elite"

2) How many USC grads have worked for the AP?

3)  Your comments about Donna Brazile are false and bigoted.

4) If those states that had caucuses were primaries, Barack would be up by over 2 million votes because unlike Hillary who mapped out a "big state" strategy, Obama would have STILL won all of those states.

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-08 05:40PM | 0 recs
Hillary WON INDIANA, the 'tie-breaker'

Hillary has not lost. She WON INDIANA. She's predicted to have several more big wins. Then come the Superdelegates who are supposed to vote for the most electable candidate.

After Denver, we will know who won and who lost. Unless Obama has sense enough to withdraw sooner.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:55PM | 0 recs
Speaking of Kool-Aid

   sounds like you were poisoned by Hillarys...what with believing that no one who works for a living supports Obama. Wow! You've been duped good!!
by southernman 2008-05-08 03:08PM | 0 recs
The seniors could well go with McCain

especially if he promises not to touch Social Security.

Seniors appreciate his war service, and the fact that he paid his dues.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

catfish, it is like talking to people without ears. Obama supporters see and hear only what they choose. Some of us on here have been screaming for months. And no Obama supporter gets it. I think the man who finally saw how his mother felt is extraordinary.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

In what way?  Seriously, why should we choose a nominee out of guilt?  And, who are you to tell the women who support the other candidate that their views aren't legitimate?

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

Who is talking about guilt? What we have been talking about is a level playing field. It isn't there. The manipulation over Lake County is just the latest in a long, long, line of manipulations and thuggery from Obama. A subject which Obama supporters are notoriously slow to address. Do you really think women and latinos and working class whites and seniors and Jews are just going to say, "sure, let's let bygones be bygones." No way. Wait. I forgot gays. Obama has no coalition. He has blacks and upper income whites. It is a lose-lose

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

Uh, you are the one talking about guilt.  You quoted a supposed Obama supporter who felt guilty that he had denied his mother a female president, as if that alone were sufficient qualification.  You even bring up the subject of Mother's Day in the title, for the extra guilt-factor.

And please spare me your conspiracy theories.  If you have tangible evidence of widespread voter fraud, send it to the DNC or Clinton's campaign.  You know, something more than the odd anecdote from a self-interested observer or your own illogical assumptions as to why one of the poorest areas in the entire country wasn't fast enough to update its votes for your liking.  Get a grip and quit fanning the flames of division.

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:38PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

   Quit bringing up false allegations about voter intimidation and fraud. You clearly have no idea what that is.
by southernman 2008-05-08 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

Linfar, I notice you have yet to respond to my comments about how you are being rather selective.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: The seniors could well go with McCain

Those seniors voted for one of the youngest presidents in history -- John Kennedy.  Seniors traditionally go Democratic and they will in the fall as well.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:11PM | 0 recs
Kamazkazi

Linfar just had her "Kamakazi Moment"  
(MY new blogism, feel free to use it)

She is threating US that if she isn't happy she is going to leave the party.

Then her last ditch effort is to say abortion is important and women will not vote for Obama.

I have only heard one candidate say they will end abortion rights, that is john McCain.

Im done, threads like this are too depressing.

Plus the last time I wrote anything in a Linfar diary I got blacklisted for 2 weeks.

Linfar, if you are a democrat you won't leave.
In my life I have never seen it happen (except the paid advisors like Dick Morris)

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

You are wrong George. Sometimes people feel so run over and unheard and unseen that they will leave.  I have waited and waited and waited to see about MI and Fla. Sure those votes favor the woman. Is that some reason not to deal with it. Yah. It is--from Dean and Brazille's point of view.  

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

So you will throw out all of your ideals and values over some insider games.

Stop blaming MI and FL on the DNC, try blaming Michigan and Florida, and their voters.   We knew for months what was going to happen, we tried to resolve it before the vote and after.

I would say from the DNC this campaign has been more than fair.  For every winner there is a loser in life.

You know there was a time in December when people were telling me "Common George your such an idealist, Obama wont get the nomination, America is too ignorant"  And for a while I realized it was wishfull thinking.

Then he won Iowa, and then SC and still I heard the same thing, "doesn't stand a chance on super tuesday"

Now say HRC took a decisive delegate lead and Obama dropped out.

Do you think I would say the same things as you?

No, we were all ready for him to drop out.

By many people's logic here Obama is satan himself because the media and supporters are asking for HRC to drop out.
Another logic I don't get, primaries never go this long.

Anyways Linfar, I hope the best for you, sorry your choice isn't going to win but if we had a time machine and I could show you the future is bright not just 2015 but in 2025 could you accept that?
A better America for my (theoretical) children and their children?

Do we want our values to become norm and not some bleeding heart fringe.

Again, Linfar we need you, look past the horse race and see it for what it is.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

I take that back, my nicities can be taken in by any HRC blowhard,

but Linfar is scum, she is probably Lanny Davis in real life.

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
---------------------------------------- ----
#  linfar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

Listen all,

I say in this diary that I don't think the democratic party wants me or wants women.

And the obamabots are screaming and swarming.

Please come and read, rec and comment. Hillary voices matter in the blogosphere right now Bigtime!!

www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963
------------------------------------

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

Now just wait a minute!  You can say you don't agree with linfar's ideas.  You can politely discuss your differences.  But don't for a minute hop in here and call anyone scum!  

Do you think for a minute that you can persuade anyone in the world that you are right and they are wrong by calling them scum?

Give me a break!  All you have done is make certain from now on that I'll skip right by your posts without reading them!

Wise up, and have some manners!  And have some respect for a divergent opinion.  Shame on you!

by mbolack 2008-05-08 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

George, I feel as if I am talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I am articulating in this article sentiment all over the internet by women and other groups of people who have a legitimate gripe. And for good reason. I have been called a racist and a troll, my private posts on other lists are brought back here. I watch impotently as my candidate is humiliated by Obama supporters in charge of Lake County. I commiserate with friends who have been shouted down, trampled on and in screamed at by Obama supporters.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

And Clinton supporters have called me names, but that wouldn't stop me from voting for her over McCain if she had been able to win enough elections and delegates to actually win the nomination.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

Seems to me that you can hold your own in the shouting department.

by futbol dad 2008-05-08 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

George, I have held my nose and voted dem lots of times when I wasn't on board with the candidate. But the chance of a woman president has been as powerful to me as the chance of a AA has for many AA voters. And you do not understand that. You disregard it. And when you do, you disregard women. Please reread that guy's note to TM at the end of this diary. He got something profound. And you still don't have a clue.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

Please e-mail me - I really don't think its about this.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/8/13 3847/8264/196#196

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

Count MI and FLA in any way you want, even giving 0 delegates from MI to Obama -- and Obama still wins.

You keep trying to present this as a gender issue. But if Obama had been as bad among women as you suggest, then he'd have lost the nomination in a landslide. They're 50% of the electorate atleast, far more than the AA percentage.

If Hillary Clinton had even approached the numbers among black women that Obama had among white men, then she'd still have won. Why did black women go overwhelmingly Obama?

She lost fair and square. She lost by abandoning whole states she felt she couldn't win, by abandoning whole demographics she couldn't win, while Obama fought tooth and nail to increase his wins and diminish his losses for every state and every demographic.

And so he won.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

I will leave the party (as will every woman I know) and becaome a "decline to state" but fight hard for Democrats in down-ticket races who I admire. There are many of them. The party as a whole no longer represents the values I hold. The double standards we have witnessed form the DNC and the Obama campaign are as stunning as they are ugly.

by The Smoldering Crone 2008-05-08 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

Thanks you Smoldering Crone. What is astounding is you say it, and say it and say it, and Obama people think it is just sour grapes. It hasn't been a fair fight. I don't mind losing. But I do mind being called a racist!! And I don't think I will get over it easily.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

How in the world can you say it hasn't been a fair fight? Obama started WAY back.

by Falsehood 2008-05-08 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Kamazkazi

I agree with you Smoldering Crone.

by nikkid 2008-05-08 04:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Excuse me, what makes you think that Donna hates gays?  Where is the proof?  As for gays Hillary threw them under the bus, the same as she did AAs, and young people and white college educated workers.  No, contrary to what Hillary says, poor white blue collar workers are not the only ones who work hard or are americans.  

by Spanky 2008-05-08 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Donna is on public record as opposing listing gays along with blacks as victims of discrimination. From her point of view it sullies the civil rights history [past and present]  of blacks to include gays. Even Howard Dean has said Donna fought giving gays more representation in the committees to shape the party's platform.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

No, you're totally misstating what Donna said.  It had to do with DNC rules for representation at the convention, which are effectively quotas about how many of different kinds of people should be delegates at the national convention.  That really has nothing to do with defining who are victims are discrimination.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:16PM | 0 recs
Look familiar linfar?

A little diary pimping from linfar at Hillaryis44:

linfar Says:

May 8th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I liked your post, admin.

I have a new diary up at mydd. Please go and rec it asap!

www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963

It is titled Mothers Day Dreams and it is a little rough on the guys who are anointing Barack the Messiah

and then a second pimp further down thread

linfar Says:

May 8th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Listen all,

I say in this diary that I don't think the democratic party wants me or wants women.

And the obamabots are screaming and swarming.

Please come and read, rec and comment. Hillary voices matter in the blogosphere right now Bigtime!!

www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963

by GFORD 2008-05-08 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

I guess that explains the gaming of the Rec List.

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

wow linfar is an actually hillaryis44 poster and actually agrees with what they post?

yeah there goes my last bit of sympathy right there, that site is terrible and gives all democrats a bad name.

Linfar feel free to take your ball and go home you are just as bad as the Obama supporters you supposedly speak out against.

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

More Obama dirty tricks. This is how you are losing votes and driving people away. That simple. I am embarrassed for you.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

So your saying this is a fabrication?

How is this driving away votes?

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

Seriously Linfar, don't go to the republicans.

You are a master manipulator of words and framing just like them.

We need you on our side.
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

Well, that's funny. Like Hillary I can laugh at a good joke.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

It's been clear for quite awhile that there is coordination among Hillary bloggers. I mean, really, how else were they able to create media buzz for their strike.  I also find it quite interesting that a top bundler regularly posts on this site and that her style is so much like another diarist.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

email who the bunlder is to hillaryis44.blogspot.com. Did you know that there is a CEO that posts there?

by sweet potato pie 2008-05-08 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

thats you and you know it, and the fact you won't admit its you shows you know just how bad Hillaryis44.org is.

and yet, wow

though you know I am not surprised in the least.

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

TM, there is NO WAY that Linfar and Alegre are not professionals.

And I mean this in the nicest way.

We need them on our side, lets work on keeping them here.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

if they really are professionals then they already know how they are voting in the fall, this is all a ploy to get us to go oh no we need Clinton as the nominee,

no let Linfar go, let her campaign and vote for McCain, it literally SPITS in the face of everything Hillary has done and who she is.

so no let every woman who has spent months talking about how Hillary is right on the issues and only she can save us from McCain and how they and their families can't afford a McCain presidency UNLESS Obama is the nominee? THEN they are ready for McCain?

no they are welcome to go, please change your party registration at the door, our party does not need voters like this, this is how we become like the republicans because we sacrifice to keep voters like them.

Linfar is free to go when she sees fit.

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

While it does certainly look like they are professionals, what strikes me is how ineffective they are (except for Alegre's ability to get money from people who have so much less than she does).  They are ineffective because they never engage facts and arguments, but rather repeat talking points.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

Yea, Im right, see Im so hungry for change in America that sometimes I get jealous at the way Republicans can lie through their teeth.

Their Iraq spind is incredible.

But yea, at the end of the day it is repulsive.

Im just dying to know the real deal with these people.

Because they don't sound like Democrats, and I have a hard time imagining the Alegre and Linfar demographic.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

Well, some of them have dropped hints about their lifestyles. TexasDarlin has a BMW and a $350/hour accountant.  And Alegre has been paying $400 a week for childcare but since her kid is now going to kindergarten and afterschool costs $325 a week less, she says they'll be able to go out to dinner more.  I wish I could link to these, but they seem to have been removed from this site.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

Alegre is most definitely a professional, but its hard to spin alot of what Hillary does without assuming we are all idiots. which they do.

but I mean you have to actively forget anything that happened BEFORE Feb. 5th before any of their talking points and diaries would ever make sense. I mean come on Her campaign spends months saying its about the delegates then 1 day its about the popular vote?

but I have no pity for Hillaryis44 posters that site is toxic and makes all democrats look bad, and i have no problem losing those voters to the GOP.

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Look familiar linfar?

So what?  Who cares if this diarist posts comments or diaries at other sites?

by bellarose 2008-05-08 05:36PM | 0 recs
So now Hillary lost


   b/c Democrats are sexist. It's not that Obama won more votes.

  The excuses are sad. Hillary gave a good effort, but she lost. The idea that b/c of her defeat (from voters no less) that the Democratic Party, with a female speaker of the House, is sexist...is just a completely pathetic point of view.

by southernman 2008-05-08 03:42PM | 0 recs
Remember Reagan Democrats?

Defined:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Demo crat

Again, there is now a very large portion of the Democratic party that does not consider itself represented by the party. Millions will likely vote for McCain.

Obamabots here should get some of the blame for the way you treated us. To hell with you.

by Nobama 2008-05-08 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember Reagan Democrats?

From a poster calling him/herself "Nobama," that's quite rich.

by rfahey22 2008-05-08 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember Reagan Democrats?

This thing is no Democrat,

just read this, and you realize you have been duped too, she is just another political operative:
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610

just look for her posts.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember Reagan Democrats?

Wow, no kidding. That's beyond harsh.

I guess at least, the first line in this diary was true?

by WashStateBlue 2008-05-08 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember Reagan Democrats?

Well, thre yu go George. On the one hand you wanna say its all sour grapes and on the other you see nothing wrong with going to another website and copying posts to publish here. I have neve done anything comparable and I never will. It's called principles. Obama supporters don't have them. At leaast none I have met on this site.

by linfar 2008-05-08 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember Reagan Democrats?

What princples

We lost principles for busting your propoganda game.

God you really are good, there is no way you have no professional experience in politics.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:01PM | 0 recs
Look past the nomination: visualize

November. This is more than just clinching the nomination. There is still a general election.

Then look past November: we need Congress to stay Dem in 2008, 2010, 2012 to get health care reformed. Just getting a president is not going to do it. And Obama said he'd do health care in 2012, so keeping Dems in congress this term is not enough. He needs them in congress in 2012.

by catfish1 2008-05-08 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I am a forty-five year old woman that initially thought I could see myself voting for Obama if Hillary did not win the nomination.

I set out to do my due diligence, researching the background of this inspirational man.

Unfortunately, what I found has been very disquieting. Obama has repeatedly chosen to associate himself with dubious people and seems to have actually sought them out to help further his political career. People like Tony Rezko. Jeremiah Wright. Nadhmi Auchi (Sadamm oil for food scandal). Frank Marshall Davis (Communist). Louis Farrakhan. Reverend James Meeks. Cousin Odinga. William Ayers, who, besides bombing the pentagon, actually paid Obama to be director of one of his "charities" for many years. Obama tried to diminish the connection, but in fact, he cannot -- he was essentially employed by Ayers.

Obama made a very hinky deal with the devil on that house he lives in, and it will come back to haunt him. Obama's wife seems to be a very angry person that appears to only see the worst in our country. Could it be something that she picked up while listening to the vitriolic, hate-filled speeches of Jeremiah Wright in her church?

The church that Obama is still a member of is one that believes in a "Black Value System" that follows the teachings of James Cone. If you research Cone's idea of Black Liberation Theology, it is a victim-based marxist theology that engenders distrust and resentment towards white people. It is a world we are trying to leave behind as a country and the fact that Obama still is a member tells me all I need to know about him.

His emergence out of the cesspool that is Chicago politics, makes it impossible for me to believe that he is not already corrupt, and his wishy washy positions on healthcare, banking industry reform and nuclear power make me suspect that he is being propped up by big business interests.

Obama is far from a uniter, in fact, he has managed to divide nearly everyone in the democratic party -- and that with the complicity of the top echelon of the DNC, which is doing its darndest to lance the working class whites from the party by proclaiming that they don't really need them to win.

The willingness at all costs to throw one of the best candidates the party has ever seen off the train is emblematic of what women in this party feel is being done to them. Party members that think we will just pull the lever for Obama in the fall are smoking the hopium. Many of us will never, never, ever, vote for Obama. At least we know that McCain has experience and is a true patriot.

It is definately time for a new party to rise to power...one that is centrist with true democratic values and a platform of compassion and that is a champion of the working class that makes this country great.

As soon I have voted in Oregon, I will be changing my affiliation to independent. I do not recognize the democratic party as sharing my values any more. Maybe next election cycle will see the emergence of a true viable third party. I do not want to vote Republican, but it won't keep me from writing in Hillary Clinton in the fall.  

by everyvotecounts 2008-05-08 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

"I do not want to vote Republican, but it won't keep me from writing in Hillary Clinton in the fall.  "

That exudes intelligence.

You must not know much of the Republicans, you would have to be quite a macabre person to vote for McCain.

I have morals and need to sleep at night.  I would never vote for a man that is PROMISSING me in his campaign more death, more terrorism, more war, more poverty.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

George, milllions of dems are going to vote for mccain. Sorry to be the messenger here. but something needs to get through to you guys.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams
Then they aren't dems.
by proseandpromise 2008-05-08 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Exactly, any Democrat that would vote for McCain is no friend of mine.

You would have to be insane or a complete Sadist.

linfar, why do you keep talking when you lost all credibility.

No one will feel sorry for you once they realize what your game is.

Whose side are you on, blog games aside.

Do you think McCain is a decent man, do you think he is a maverick.

Dont worry about my Democrats, our campaign against McCain is already brutal.

An easy mark,  try something else Linfar, because McCain is the easiest part.
A torture victim who supports torture, after he was against it.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Yeah, it's pretty great that "millions of Dems" are going to undermine everything Clinton's been fighting for during this campaign.  I look forward to your diaries explaining your decision to work against her once she concedes and begins actively supporting the Democratic nominee.  She'll call on her supporters to help her and the party to defeat McCain, and you'll say, "Sorry, Hillary, I was with you before but now that my feelings are hurt I'm going to do everything in my power to defeat your agenda."

She'll be pretty happy, I'm sure.

by Koan 2008-05-08 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I wouldn't vote for McCain. That being said, I won't vote for Obama either. Obama should have been upfront with the American people; he wasn't. IMO, a slow loss of support will continue through the GE due to all the 527 ads that will play over and over again courtesy of Rev Wright.

by soyousay 2008-05-08 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Thanks you everyvotecounts for saying it so clearly. The democratic party is facing a huge evacuation of voters if Obama is the nominee. And ain't no repugs gonna bail you out in the general election.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams
We can all play these "I'm so offended" games. You can be hurt. You can be disappointed. You don't get to be morally outraged.
by proseandpromise 2008-05-08 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Linfar, I love your diary, and have rec'd it.

I completely get and feel EXACTLY as you do!!

I am up for our own WOMEN'S PARTY or Storming the Convention or voting for McCain or changing parties or just writing in Hillary's name.

Whatever the movement is - I'm there and I'm with you and I say "LET'S GO".

It's been too long, too hard and too big of a fight to give up now.

by nikkid 2008-05-08 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Thanks, nikkid. I know how you feel. And this diary is attempting to get that sentiment out into the open for democrats of all stripes to consider.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

If you create a women's party, you will set back women's rights for a very, very long time.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Yea, lets start the "Women's Party"

Our manifesto will be "To reek revenge on every man woman and child of America for denying our leader her role as ruler of earth"

Laughable.

And what do you mean by storm the convention, there will be thousands and thousands of us there to support our party.  and you want to crash it?

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Don't you mean White Women's party?

Because black women voted overwhelmingly for Obama. I don't think you would welcome them.

And after Hillary's race-baiting becomes more and more obvious (only white voters count it seems) I don't think she'll have that many Latino women left either.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Whites, Latinas, Lesbians, Jews, Asians, Indians...African American women are always welcome..

by nikkid 2008-05-08 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Even though they voted for Obama with greater percentages than white men did?

For a primary season that was supposedly so much affected by sexism, isn't it strange that Hillary got more white male supporters than she did black female ones?

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-09 02:12AM | 0 recs
Itching for another banning?

by Skaje 2008-05-08 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Itching for another banning?

What for Operation Chaos via Linfar?
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
---------------------------
linfar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

Listen all,
I say in this diary that I don't think the democratic party wants me or wants women.
And the obamabots are screaming and swarming.
Please come and read, rec and comment. Hillary voices matter in the blogosphere right now Bigtime!!
www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963
---------------------

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Itching for another banning?

LOL.  dailykos used to do the same thing here for awhile, putting diaries on the rec list whenever they wanted, but I guess they just lost interest and have moved into general election mode already.  It's going to be amusing watching mydd the next couple of weeks.

I mean, I have genuine sympathy and respect for the real Clinton supporters (sricki, alegre, kevin, johnnygun, a bunch of others), but race-baiting trolls like linfar are really something else, and I'm going to enjoy watching the fireworks.

Favorite linfar quote ever, from the Classism diary:

When death reigned out of the sky on 9/11, 2001, and stock brokers and financial analysis's were running downstairs out of the burning towers, firemen were running  upstairs to rescue the wounded and the helpless. Close to 350 white guys gave their lives that day in the service of their country.  And the whole world took their hat off to them. It is about time the Democratic Party did the same.

That's some mighty fine stormfront shit there, putting a racial angle on 9/11.

by Skaje 2008-05-08 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

As a woman in my 30s and yes..white (not that that matters) who voted for Obama, I'm offended by the rationale that somehow we're supposed to be guilted into supporting Hillary because she's a woman.

The reality is there are alot of women who prefer Obama to Hillary and we voted accordingly, and many of us don't appreciate being lectured or guilted into somehow going along with suggestions we should 'overturn the DNC primary results'.

I am pro-choice, opposed to the war in Iraq, opposed to the mentality of the GOP on many  other issues..

And I'm definately opposed to so called liberals or Democrats who threaten to vote for McCain because Hillary didn't win! Are these people thick headed from the past 8 years?

I have respect for people who can support their candidate without dragging the other down.

I don't have respect for those who want to share something in common with Ralph Nader supporters.

Like I said, there are many women like myself, Democrats ..and Independents...who DON'T share the views of this diarist.

by wiscogirl101 2008-05-08 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Well, that's fair enough. But I have been mightily turned off by 'black block voting' and hearing Brazille brag that blacks have the numbers if they vote as a block to swing elections. No one here is saying every woman needed to vote Hilalry. But millions and millions and millions have. And they have a dream no less powerful than that of AA's. But their dream has been disrespeted. And the idea that women will just roll over like always and come along now and vote for a man who has called Hillary clinton a racist. Whoa. It ain't gonna happen for a lot of them

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Newsflash for you, Linfar..

Both candidates have supporters that feel 'disrespected' Thats the nature of politics, I suppose, but you and everyone else need to look at the big picture.

The reality is you don't like the 'black block voting'. Fine. Did you object to it when Gore and Kerry got 90% of their vote? Not likely.

I did not vote for Barack because I felt we needed a black/mixed President and the same would have been the case for Hillary. I'm not going to speak for others.

I voted for Barack because 1) I believe he can win 2) He shares most of my values 3) I believe he...better than Hillary..can get things accomplished to undo the past 8 years.

So I'm quite offended when I see posts like your saying you would rather vote McCain than Obama. The past 8 years weren't bad enough??? And you claim to be a Democrat? Shame on you.

With all due respect, I think your biggest problem is those 'Hillary is 44"  or Taylor Marsh websites...where they do have racists.

Yes..I've seen posts there calling Donna Brazile 'brillo pad', and suggesting Obama is only qualified for valet parking. Yep, I've read those websites on a few occasions and they do NOT represent the vast majority of women OR Democrats. I doubt they represent the vast majority of Republicans either. So shame on you for bringing that hate over here.

If you want to continue associating with people like that kind of hatred, I'd much rather have you guys join the GOP.

by wiscogirl101 2008-05-08 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

"the idea that women will just roll over like always and come along now and vote for a man who has called Hillary Clinton a racist"

Why don't we let black women decide on the issue of Hillary Clinton's racism vs Obama's sexism?

Aren't they the perfect group to make that decision? As a white guy, I don't feel very qualified to make that decision on their behalf, regarding either sexism or racism.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Added: The biggest problem the Democratic party has is not the candidate we select, its the mentality of too many so-called Democratic voters that they would rather lose an election than win it with a candidate that wasn't their ideal preference.

by wiscogirl101 2008-05-08 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

No, the biggest problem we have right now as a party is the tactics of the Obama campaign. You cannot call other democrats Racists. You cannot browbeat voters in cuacuses. You cannot attempt to stifle dissent and differences with thuggery. Issues matter to me. they really do. And I do nort know whre Obama stands on them because everytime I think iknow his position he changes it. Any woman who thinks he will do the right thing on the Supreme Court is substituing her own desires for the reality of Obama's shiftchanging.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Linfar,

When you associate with sites (hillaryis44, taylor marsh), where people on there callDonna Brazille 'brillo pad' and suggest Obama is only qualified for valet parking, you're associating with racists.

Shame on you.

And I'm quite confident that Obama will pick judges who will uphold Roe v Wade.

After all, he did get the endorsement of one of the past Presidents of NOW,  Lorna Howard.

As I've said, there are many women who share my preferences on Obama and are quite offended by your threats to vote McCain.

by wiscogirl101 2008-05-08 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

But you said it in a reasonable way, with respect.
I can handle that.  

What I can't handle is these little jerks who think the have to throw vulgarities and insults at the people whose opinion is different from theirs.  Linfar is a good person, and to have her attacked like she was today is just reprehensible.  And it is one reason why a lot of people are so fed up with Obama.  I, for one, would like to see him make a public statement recognizing that the blogosphere needs to calm down and discuss, and stop throwing rocks.

by mbolack 2008-05-08 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

why? what we do on the blogs has absolutely no effect on  candidates

or are you also calling on Hillary Clinton to tell her supporters at sites like Hillaryis44.org or Taylormarsh.com that they are not helping?

Hillary has many bad bloggers just like Obama, and yes Linfar is one of them

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

So I guess this behaviour from Linfar is acceptable.

It looks like she is not just overzealous but creating controversey.

She doesn't beleive what she writes.
------------------
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=610
#  linfar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Listen all,
I say in this diary that I don't think the democratic party wants me or wants women.
And the obamabots are screaming and swarming.
Please come and read, rec and comment. Hillary voices matter in the blogosphere right now Bigtime!!
www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963
---------------

Is that acceptable to you?

How would you like if I wrote the same reverse hit diary and went on Kos and did the same.
I wouldnt cause I would get laughed off their board.

They could care less what happens here.

Why don't you guys leave this board, this is one for Democrats.

You guys are saying you want the party to lose in 2008.

Tell me how you are different than a Republican.

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-08 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I think they called you a troll George. LOL! This is pathetic, yet funny at the same time. Like a car crash, I can't look away.

---------------------------------------- --------
linfar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Well, once again an obama troll has copied comments from here and printed them in my diary at mydd.

And then they wonder why they are losing votes? It boggles the mind. So anyway. say what you would like right here and you can have it copied over at mydd.

You can garner all the free publicity you would like this way

www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/8/185154/1963

---------------------------------------- --------

The "garner free publicity" is the funniest line in the whole thing.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams
Tsk. Tsk.
---------------------------------------- ----------
birdgal Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Linfar: read and recommended your diary. Rough crowd over there.
by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Yep. Cheeery garcia--thanks for printing this for me. I appreciate it. I will not be intimidated by this rather pathetic attempt to stop dissent. It's like running to a rival newspaper and finding out what is being said and running back to report on it. Be my guest!! Yu only prove the whole pont of the diary. Why would I want to be in the same party as you?

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Then leave! Nobody around here is stopping you yet you keep making stupid threats. Leave and take your racist agenda somewhere else.

Please leave.

You will not be missed.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

What people say on heavily partisan blogs is private correspondence. One is talking to like minded people. But you want to drag private correspondence in here to prove some point. and all you do is prove that thuggery and stupidity are the hallmark of Obama supporters.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

"What people say on heavily partisan blogs is private correspondence"

You have a strange view of "private correspondence".

But if that's your view, then I don't remember you objecting to the "bittergate" which was pretty much founded on the hidden videotaping of comments by Obama and their airing and subsequent usage by the Clinton campaign.

Wasn't that "thuggery" to use your term?

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I don't know where people such as yourself gett heir facts. The woman who broke bittergate wrote for Huffpo and was an invited guest. She is also an Obama supporter who was kinda repulsed by his words.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

If you had ever read her work you would know she is NOT and never was an Obama supporter.

She donated to his campaign and that's it.

Fowler is pathetic and her career is over because of this.

Thank God.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Well, I've seen Linfar insult people right here -- saying that someone can't be a real feminist if she doesn't support Clinton.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Nice try. But it won't fly. Do you know what a definition of a feminist is? I didn't think so. Better go look it up.And then come back and talk to me about feminism.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

No. A real feminist does not threaten to vote for the GOP candidate who opposes her on most of the issues because her preferred candidate in the DNC primary lost.

Feminism is all about making choices, and taking responsibility for those choices.

So if you vote for McCain, and he somehow wins, and replaces Stevens with an anti-Roe judge...and we're still in Iraq in 2012, you better damn well take resposibility for that.

by wiscogirl101 2008-05-08 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I have never said I would vote repug. Never said it. I have said I would consider leaving the dem party. I guess I'd become an Independent. Now you are sounding like the typical Obama supporter putting words in my mouth that aren't true and telling me what feminism means to boot. Ya gotta luv it.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

How very insulting.  I have taught women's studies courses at a university, spent years in grassroots feminist organizations, and donate time and money to state and local feminist organizations.

And you're complaining that Obama supporter are so mean!!!!

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:11PM | 0 recs
the Republican Sisterhood welcomes you!

Condi, Ann Coulter, Mary Matalin, Rachel Paulose, Lurita Doan, Monica Goodling, Michelle Malkin, Jean Schmidt, Fran Townsend, Laura Ingraham  ...

Linfar - I think you'll find a lot of qualities that you share with your new gal-pals:

1)two x chromosomes
2)no adam's apple (well, scratch that one)
3)uhhhhhhh ... help me out here

by obsessed 2008-05-08 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: the Republican Sisterhood welcomes you!

Wow, the hatred of women here is paplable. You know that word, don't you? Oh, I am sorry.Guess you'll have to go look it up. And when you do, check out misogyny.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: the Republican Sisterhood welcomes you!

Wow, the hatred of women here is paplable.

If I were Barack Obama, I'd have the class not to point out that you misspelled it. (mydd has a spell checker you know).

By the way, how do get misogyny out my point that you're not going to like Republicans of either gender?

I'll restate what I've said elsewhere. The fact that Hillary is female is absolutely irrelevant in this campaign. She completely transcends all gender stereotypes. For example (there are many), Hillary is criticized for her nuke Iran quote. The stereotypical criticism of a female candidate would be that she wouldn't have the testosterone to pull the trigger if she had to. Hillary is free and clear of any discrimination based on gender. Her base is a bunch of rednecks who think "a woman's place in the kitchen", but they're still voting for her for President. She has already proven unequivocally that a woman is every bit as capable as a man to be President.

The point here is that this election is absolutely not about gender (and it shouldn't be about race). If you're for Hillary, that's fine - there are plenty of good reasons to support her. But if you're for Hillary because she's female, then you're a sexist. That's what sexism is. If I hire a man over a woman because of his gender, I'm a sexist. But if I hire a woman over a man because of her gender, I'm also a sexist. And both are crimes.

To the extent that you base your support of Hillary on her gender, you are a sexist.

by obsessed 2008-05-08 05:26PM | 0 recs
Beautifully done

I am in great agreement with you, and just laugh at all the obamatrons responding here.  On the one hand, they all say "good riddance", and "you're not a democrat", and "you're not smart", and various other spamming and swarming insults.  On the other hand, they say "but we need you in the party"!

This woman understands that the "new dems" don't need me...after all, Brazile told me to stay home.  Ok, be careful what you ask for.

by 4justice 2008-05-08 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautifully done

Yep. thass what Brazille said. AA's and upper income golks are gonna be the new dem party. Well, unfortunately, Brazille may be right. And they will stay out of office a long, long time.

by linfar 2008-05-08 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautifully done

You do understand those two groups include women, don't you?

If Hillary had even attempted to get the black female vote, she might have had a chance.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-08 05:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

WOW. I am stunned. I was offended earlier by a "fake" latino who called me a nigger but I should have known better. These profesional trolls have gamed the rec list over and over again for their candidate. Which is not that bad. But, the hate and racism that the majority of these "bloggers" have expressed just leaves me in total shock. That anybody here would be associated with the fringe and racist banter that is hillaryis44 or Taylor Marsh has surprised me. Alegre is a great writer who spins for her candidate masterfully. I would like to think she has no connections to these vile and sad people who come to this blog to say they will vote for McCain and spread such vicious rumors about one of our own.

This is a GREAT blog that is being overun by kooks and it is a shame. I am sure all of your posts will be read and a desicion will be made and I hope you never come back.

We don't need you or want you in our Democratic party.

What childish and pathetic behavior.

Please go back to wherever you spawned from and don't drag the best progressive site on the web with your hate.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 04:52PM | 0 recs
"Only" 130 delegates

is huge at this late stage.  There's "only" nearly a million more votes for Barack as well.

by semiquaver 2008-05-08 05:05PM | 0 recs
Ya know linfar

I've been wondering about something.  In your diary "Classism", towards the end is this lovely paragraph:

When death reigned out of the sky on 9/11, 2001, and stock brokers and financial analysis's were running downstairs out of the burning towers, firemen were running  upstairs to rescue the wounded and the helpless. Close to 350 white guys gave their lives that day in the service of their country.  And the whole world took their hat off to them. It is about time the Democratic Party did the same.

Bolding mine.  Now I and others pointed this passage out as most of the hillaryis44 crowd that recs your diaries doesn't even read them until the end, so they probably missed that little racist nugget.  However, when I and others quoted you, the phrase was:

Over 200 white guys

So what I'm curious about is why you went back and edited the number to 350, but didn't think to remove the fact that you believe all the firemen who died on 9/11 were white.  I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on race, and the role it played in getting you banned from here the first time.

by Skaje 2008-05-08 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Ya know linfar

Skaje, here's your homework assignment. Please go and find out how many of the firemen who died were AA's, ok?

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Ya know linfar

Why did you see this in racial terms to begin with?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Ya know linfar

If the admins can't draw a line with someone as disgusting as Linfar, I fear for what this site is going to see when things get really ugly in the coming weeks.

by map 2008-05-08 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Ya know linfar

It's comments like linfar's response that are most illuminating in how modern day racists think.  They don't run around shouting n*** and burning crosses in people's yards, their anger just bubbles beneath the surface as white resentment and they feel that minorities get all the credit for white achievements.  In linfar's case, she clearly believes it was white people who tried to rescue survivors from the WTC.  Not American heroes, but white heroes.

The clowns at stormfront think the same way.

by Skaje 2008-05-08 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Ya know linfar

Wow.  ya got me there!

rah rah go white people!  White pride!

Your hood is slipping.  Looks like the admins knocked you off the rec list.  Go back to stormfront, I mean hillaryis44.

by Skaje 2008-05-08 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Linfar, I am with you all the way. Democratic Party - just words!!! The way this primary has gone, and the way the "leaders" have behaved, this isn't my party anymore. I'm beginning to have a visceral understanding about why "we've" lost so many elections over the past 40 years or so. Bill broke through, and look what they've done to him!!! This long time progressive will be looking elsewhere. Hillary, gal, hang in there!!!

by susanclare 2008-05-08 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

So sad to me that so many of us feel this way. thanks for your comment

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:29PM | 0 recs
Will, we can have BOTH firsts...

...and I don't mean just P/VP. Obama is young enough to keep running for Pres two or three more times. This may be HIllary's last chance.

It's simple. Give HIllary her turn now. Obama will have a better chance to get elected if he takes his turn later.

If we run Obama now, he's likely to get destroyed by the GOP just like McGovern did in 1972. That will be two strikes against him ever getting the nomination again. If we run HIllary this time, she can probably win (and even if she didn't, Obama would still have a better chance next time than he does now).

It's a false either/or. We can do both -- the unifying thing.

Hillary once offered Obama the VP slot. What's wrong with him doing VP this time and Pres next time? Wouldn't that be two thrills for his supporters, and four terms in the WA bully pulpit for him?

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I have a son too, who supports Barack and has his reasons. He figures Barack won't try to do too much and nothing much can happen anyway.  He thinks Barack will be more cheerful and that the Bush depression years will go away with Barack. I can see his point,  but I want a competent  president who has prepared for the job and wants to do a good job, her.  He's never been mean to me about my choice. He's never mocked her, or made bad jokes. We just back two different candidates and I can live with either.  

the only thing I have against Barack and his followers is how bad they make me feel about myself. The personal insults given to her feel as if they are for me.  I've experienced much of what she has, but in the private sector, when I'd tried to keep a powerful job when there was a less qualified new man who wanted it, and he was able to get it, and in the process make me the most hated person in that firm.  It took a long time for me to recover the emotional pain of what felt like ugly betrayal, but I had something I wasn't supposed to have, I had hire fire, and that wasn't for girls where I worked.

When the guys makes dismissive jokes about her appearance, when they denigrate her experience, I blush with the shame of ever thinking I could hold on to a job that had some power.  What a silly ninny was I.  

by anna shane 2008-05-08 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I'm a woman for Obama and I've never made any nasty comments about Hillary's appearance.  And I would never decide how to vote based on what some jerky folks said about a candidate -- why would anyone?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Oh, Anna, I am sorry. Truly. I hate the fact that so many people think racism is worse that sexism. Both are horrible. People see nothing wrong with AAs voting for Obama as a block. But don't you dare think it is ok to vote like that as women. I love 1950's comment below. We could have it all. but nobody is thinking that way.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:26PM | 0 recs
Steinem, four terms

Thanks. It's the obvious thing, really. Gloria Steinem said so too, in her NYT piece at the NH primary. 'It may take four terms to clean up after Bush; Hillary's two followed by Obama's two.'

Hillary sees the obvious, offered Obama VP weeks ago (though that was before some Obama scandals, so I bet she's glad he turned her down).

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

MyDD is hilarious!  Don't engage these morons...if they want our country to go to war and for no one to get health insurance, there is literally nothing we can do.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-08 05:17PM | 0 recs
We can have BOTH 'firsts'...

...and I don't mean just P/VP. Obama is young enough to keep running for Pres two or three more times. This may be HIllary's last chance.

It's simple. Give HIllary her turn now. Obama will have a better chance to get elected if he takes his turn later.

If we run Obama now, he's likely to get destroyed by the GOP just like McGovern did in 1972. That will be two strikes against him ever getting the nomination again. If we run HIllary this time, she can probably win (and even if she didn't, Obama would still have a better chance next time than he does now).

It's a false either/or. We can do both -- the unifying thing -- whether by Clinton/Obama 2008 or by Clinton 08 and Obama 2016.

Hillary once offered Obama the VP slot. What's wrong with him doing VP this time and Pres next time? Wouldn't that be two thrills for his supporters, and four terms in the WA bully pulpit for him?

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: We can have BOTH 'firsts'...

no such things as turns, the voters decide who turn it is, she wants it to be her turn, get to the magic number first.

by TruthMatters 2008-05-08 05:21PM | 0 recs
Re: We can have BOTH 'firsts'...

So rational and reasonable 1950 dem. If only anybody in the democratic party cared to think about the welfare of the party and how to keep the White House for more than one time.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:22PM | 0 recs
Her turn?

You just described the biggest mistake the Clinton campaign made. Thinking it was her turn somehow. That she was entitled.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-08 05:26PM | 0 recs
It is the republicans

that play "my turn"  that is how they nominated Dole.

by Student Guy 2008-05-08 05:53PM | 0 recs
Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot

I'm so tired of this. Your candidate lost so it's due to sexism, even though more than 50% of the voters are women, and far from 100% of male voters are misogynists. Couldn't possibly be because more people thought Obama was the better candidate huh?

Isn't this the antithesis of feminism, expecting that because Hillary is female the world should get in line and elect her.

The truth is she lost. She lost for a lot of reasons. Is sexism one of them? Sure, but it doesn't outweigh the racism in this campaign. Mostly she made mistakes. Big mistakes. And the majority of the voters decided they didn't prefer her as the nominee.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-08 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot

Travis, ole boy. She hasn't lost. the race is not over. When all the primaries ard one she will lead in the popular vote. Why do you think Obama wants to end it now. He is gonna get his ass whupped in a few days.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot

How many votes can Clinton possibly pick up in WV?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot
WV and Kentucky, maybe Montana and many, many in PR. Yo see what is happening? It is jus tmore dirty tricks. Hillary will have won the popular vote when the primaries end--without Mi and fla counting. Obama could still lose. But he wants to depress the vote so he is going to say he won. this guy has waged one of the dirtiest campaigns in American politics. the acusations of racism againstf the
Clintons will not be forgotten for a long time. If ever.
by linfar 2008-05-08 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot

Linfar: He is gonna get his ass whupped in a few days.

James Carville: If she gave him one of her cojones, they'd both have two.

Hillary: I'm tougher. I'm more of a fighter. I'm a better problem-solver. I can take a punch without responding emotionally.

The shoe's on the other foot. Sexism is alive and well in America, but it just doesn't apply to Hillary Clinton.

by obsessed 2008-05-08 05:34PM | 0 recs
linfar, I'm not even going to try

to argue you out of your delusion. Please hang onto it as long as you can, but please, PLEASE, also consider that if Hillary is not the nominee, it is not necessarily because of her gender.

In fact, I think what has been proved by this campaign is that the country IS ready for a woman President, and I think we're going to see one within the next couple of cycles. There have been countless men who were not the right person to be President. This is a case where it was not the right woman.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-08 05:36PM | 0 recs
Re: linfar, I'm not even going to try

Travis, she is the only woman who could do it. You will not see another woman candidate who could for decades. Hillary is the first woman to win a state primary for pete's sake. This woman is extraordinary. And Obama supporters will not acknowledge it.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: linfar, I'm not even going to try

She is extraordinary! She would wup McCain in a second!

But supporters like you give new meaning to the word Kool-Aid.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:44PM | 0 recs
I don't think that's true.

Ask most Obama supporters if they think Hillary is an extraordinary woman, and I think they'll say yes. There are fringe on both sides of course, and the same as those here who'll admit no good about Obama you'll get those who'll claim there is nothing good about Hillary.

Personally, what I like and respect about Hillary is her brain. She's smart, probably smarter than Bill. I can't help but respect that.

We've all come such a long long way, and there's so much water under the bridge that it's hard to think back to where we were 6 months ago. I can only say that personally I didn't come to this race with animosity towards Hillary. She wasn't my choice because I thought she brought too much historic baggage into the election to be electable. I may be right or wrong on that, but it wasn't animosity. It also wasn't sexism, and when someone basically calls me a misogynist jerk, it stings, a lot, and often I don't react well to it.

I think Hillary will lose this nomination because what appeared to be her biggest strength going into the election turned out to be her biggest weakness - the Clinton machine. What worked for Bill was not necessarily the right strategy for Hillary, and she has had some terrible advisors. This has led to some tactics that, frankly, piss me off. I suspect that had she taken a firmer hand within her campaign, she would have run it very differently, and better.

I have such high hopes for what we can accomplish in the next 4 years. I think that once we defeat McCain we can make the world a better place. Not in the naive, utopia sense. None of us will get everything we want. But we can move forward after going backwards for so long.

I hope that you'll join us, but you know what? Not all of us are going to want to make this journey, and none of us knows enough about most of the others to sit in judgment, so if the Republican Party is where you find your place, so be it. If I started holding Republicanism against people I'd have to disown most of my family and half my friends. Peace.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-08 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary lost, so it's all a sexist plot

She lost for a lot of reasons. Is sexism one of them? Sure.

I strongly disagree. I doubt that Hillary lost any significant number of votes as a result of being a woman.

by obsessed 2008-05-08 05:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Tell me, what do you want from the Democratic National Committee that would convince you that they are not sexist?

Is it picking a nominee who hasn't won more elections, more delegates and more votes than the another candidate because she has ovaries?

If not, then what is it you want exactly that would exemplify non-sexist or anti-sexist action in this case?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:29PM | 0 recs
selecting the best candidate for November

What would satisfy me is what the SD's are probably going to do: select the best candidate to beat McCain, which means the one who had the judgement and maturity to go for the voters and states that are important in the real world of November -- ie the Dem voter base in the big swing states, and the votes of real Democrats in primaries.

Not the candidate who gamed the system by getting his delegates from caucuses in states so red that there AREN'T any Democrats there except the few latte liberals -- and his votes from "Democrats for a Day."

The purpose of the delegate system is to roughly emulate the electoral college system. Delegates that don't represent winnable electoral votes -- cheat the spirit of the primary.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 06:48PM | 0 recs
selecting the best candidate for November

What would satisfy* me is what the SD's are probably going to do: select the best candidate to beat McCain, which means the one who had the judgement and maturity to go for the voters and states that are important in the real world of November -- ie the Dem voter base in the big swing states, and the votes of real Democrats in primaries.

Not the candidate who gamed the system by getting his delegates from caucuses in states so red that there AREN'T any Democrats there except the few latte liberals -- and his votes from "Democrats for a Day."

The purpose of the delegate system is to roughly emulate the electoral college system. Delegates that don't represent winnable electoral votes -- cheat the spirit of the primary.

*Well, ok, there's a lot of other mop-up to be done: getting rid of Brazile and re-adjusting the delegate allocation she's been setting up, etc.

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 06:50PM | 0 recs
Senseless rant

If this senseless rant is any indication, things are going to get much uglier around here in a few weeks then I thought.

Hopefully the admins will step in so we don't have to watch the worst elements from the hate sites NoQuarter and Hillaryis44 flame out publically on these boards.

by map 2008-05-08 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams
You are so right! The Dem party has told us to go home- we are old, we are useless, they can do it without us.
We marched for civil rights, we protested the Viet-Nam war, we voted Democrat all our lives. Called our COngress people, wrote letters, made phone calls, donated money.
And what do they tell us?? Screw you, we don't need you or your votes. Stay home, go away.
Well, as my Nana said "Be careful what you pray for, God might give it to you."
by ProudMilitaryMom 2008-05-08 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Hi PMM,

good to see you. The Obama supporters here think they can shoot the messenger and make the message go away. Not!!

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You're KOO KOO for COCOA PUFFS!

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-08 05:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams
Never too far away- lots of phoning yet to do! I check in when I can.
Brazile was just too much for me- that e-mail she sent was crazy! She really believes we are irelevant and kicked us to the curb. Afet her candidate threw so many others under the bus, I can't say I am surprised.
I wrote a heartbreaker yesterday- check it out at my blog.
by ProudMilitaryMom 2008-05-08 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

"The Democratic Party" didn't tell you anything -- The voters did.

There were elections. Clinton didn't do as well as she thought she would. Obama did better than anyone thought he would.  That's politics.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-08 05:47PM | 0 recs
My Mother and Hillary

This is apropos of the title of this diary, although not so much what it has become.  My mother is 80 and ill, and is a passionate supporter of Hillary Clinton.  We were IMing each other a little while ago and she mentioned how upset she was that Hillary seems to have lost the election.  This is the first time we have ever disagreed about a candidate in my life.  At that moment, I would have gladly taken out a full page ad for Hillary just to make her happy.  This is probably her last presidential election, and I guess some things just trump politics.

by mady 2008-05-08 05:47PM | 0 recs
Re: My Mother and Hillary

Mady, you do realize that this diary has been removed from the rec list and in fact you can't find it anyore on the front page of the site.

by linfar 2008-05-08 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: My Mother and Hillary

It is still on my front page and it seemed the best place to post what I felt at that moment.  I was not trying to ruffle any feathers, just feeling sad and thinking all this stuff doesn't mean beans compared to wishing for good things for someone you love.

by mady 2008-05-08 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: My Mother and Hillary

Well, you got it Mady. And so did that guy at the end of the diary. Womens dreams are no less profound that those of AAs in this primary fight. But they have been given short shrift by comparison. While Obama did his victory lap around the Senate today, Hillary was ignored. The Senate is the worst boys club in America.
by linfar 2008-05-08 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: My Mother and Hillary

No, that's not quite what I got.  What I got is that if it had been reversed and I was for Hillary and my mom was for Obama, I still would have wanted to give her whatever it took to make her happy.  Is not a gender thing with me, it would have been identical with my dad (and was, he died 2 years ago).  Love of family trumps politics, that was all I was trying to say in the  midst of the maelstrom that is going on.  

by mady 2008-05-08 06:37PM | 0 recs
Linfar, I would like to contact you...

.... can you e-mail me, my address is on the site.

by mady 2008-05-08 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: My Mother and Hillary

Try to learn from that.

by map 2008-05-08 06:08PM | 0 recs
linfar

This diary makes me sad, you are so full of rage right now.  I think that 2 years ago you probably thought differently of many of the people you insult in this diary.  For my part the only democrat surrogate I am mad at (and I use the term democrat very loosely here) is Joe Leiberman.  I guess the primary war has engulfed you.

Also a lot of your remarks are very insulting, the kool-aid/kool-ade comment has connotations of a suicide-cult.  Do you really mean to insinuate that people who have a different viewpoint than yours are suicide cultists?

by Student Guy 2008-05-08 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: linfar

There's no more point arguing with the logic of this than internetstar's diary (which is also mercifully not on the rec list either). I'm beginning to think it's futile to use reasonable arguments against the reckless destructiveness of diaries like this. Indifference is more lethal

But good to see you fighting the good fight, your BRITish  friend

by duende 2008-05-08 06:11PM | 0 recs
Indeed

with Internetstar I have been reduced to booing him/her.  It is actually quite comical and in my view 'creative' as he wanted to boo Obama.

I actually had a very good conversation with linfar about dogs and I think she can be rational, that is why I am using my rational side.

Otherwise for people like internetstar who choose to be illogical the entire time the only response is the 'creative' one which is either a non sequiter like I've treated internetstar and grendel was misunderstood, by throwing bombs.  I wouldn't do that in real life but it does seem a kin the "British" (or is that english ;) thing to do...

But in the real colour of the situation in real life I have too much honour to do that.

by Student Guy 2008-05-08 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Indeed

I thinking the booing bombing is fair when it comes to those posters. There is no reasoned debate and you might as well foreground the unreason. The Brit reference, BTW, was merely to alert you to my old username, banned for some bizarre reason last week along with other Obama supporters

by duende 2008-05-09 03:38AM | 0 recs
I knew that

I could tell by the style, a good writer has a certain style and you are a good writer, I was having a little fun with the British reference.

Also I confirmed it over at Dkos.

by Student Guy 2008-05-09 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Off the rec list. Perhaps Jerome has finally remembered this was once a progressive blog

by duende 2008-05-08 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

...and off the rec list with you!

Tell the hillaryis44.com racists to stay there.

by Skaje 2008-05-08 06:16PM | 0 recs
stay and reform and take over

I don't actually agree with everyone who talks about 'leaving' the Dem party or registering GOP or Ind.

A UK paper had a lovely phrase about "If Mrs. Clinton flounces out and starts her own party" -- I do wish that were practical!

But really, I think the only practical thing (if Hillary were to lose the nomination) would be to write her in (as showing a clear message) or vote McCain (to keep Obama out).

Then we old bitter women stay in the party and vote to reform the party from inside! And vote in the next Dem primary for whoever seems best (but not necessarily vote for them that November).

I've heard that the 'netroots' got Dean elected DNC chair. Let's find out how -- so we can boot Brazile out! Maybe Nader could give her a job.

But of course that's a very hypothetical project, as really we'll be too busy getting Hillary elected in November. And then she and Bill may have some ideas what to do next....

by 1950democrat 2008-05-08 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

You express very well the truths about this election season.

by LA 2008-05-08 06:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I love your diary and how expressive you are about the principles of what made our country great.

Like you said, if the Democratic party has moved away from me...then look some where else.

by carbynew 2008-05-08 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

Don't support that Fraud Obama and the Howard Dean wing of the DNC/party. Hillary Clinton has earned 50% of the dems the hard way, without the support of her party.

Yet, everyday she and those she represents has been demean, lied upon and dismissed. Told we are not apart of the New Democratic Party by Donna Brazile on CNN this past election Tuesday and said our money is not needed as the "annoited one" can carry ball all the way to no where.

Okay, I see where this is gong and I support my candidate 100% BUT will vote for McCain in the G.E. if Obama is the nominee.

I have made my peace and can live with this decision. I will NEVER support or vote for anybody who is ANTI-AMERICAN as Obama is.

by carbynew 2008-05-08 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Mother's Day Dreams

I love your diary linfar.  

As I have said repreatedly in posts on this site, my loyalty is to this Country and to the ideals that I believe make this Country great.  

Until recently, I beliweved the Democratic Party was that party.

Now, its supposed supporters suppress public opinions, and invite you to leave if you don't go along with what the "Party" wants.  As someone told me on another diary on MyDD, "don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out".

As I told him or her, the last I heard, I didn't think the Democratic Party didn't require loyalty oaths.  What I didn't say there, but will say now is, geez, the Democrats sound like they are turning into the Nazi Party in pre-WWII Germany.  (Now before you start screaming at me, I am ONLY talking about loyalty oaths, not support for the Final Solution etc...).

The Whigs have gone, and the Tories have gone.  Maybe it is time for the Democratic Party to say bye-bye too.

by cjbardy 2008-05-09 08:15AM | 0 recs

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