Daily Insults Work

I am down. This is a downer diary.  I am also so far over the hill I won't even tell you how old I am. But based on that you can bet I know this blogosphere is not my world.

But stupidly, I guess, inspired by Hillary and  with time on my hands while taking care of an 88-year-old Mom with alzheimers--smack dab in the middle of  a right-wing militia neighborhood in southern california-- I decided to Blog!

Woohoo for me.

I began by finding the democratic blogs. And dailykos seemed like the Big Daddy. That last word is the right one. Sexism is alive and well in the blogosphere. It ain't that women don't blog there, they do, but they don't count. Don't tell me how I know this. I just did after my first week.

I also realized in that same period of time that supporting Hillary was not were it was 'at.' Ok, good, I thought. These folks will listen to reason and well thought out arguments. They will respond to a careful vetting of their 'guy.' This is great. I can do some good for Hillary here. hahahahahahahahahahaDeepBreathhahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha

First off I insulted a famous and very popular Hillary blogger who still has not forgiven me. Second off, another Hillary blogger became upset over a diary which evolved out of watching my Mom. This diary joked about exactly who our millions of alzheimers folks might vote for. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny topped the list! I was told I was insulting alzheimers people.

And things went downhill from there. Every diary was accused of racism in one way or another. Nobody listened to Anything. It was like a huge free-for-all on the Indiannapolis speedway where speed of comment was valued about all else. And God help the newcomer. Nobody took the time to explain Anything. Troll rating--I didn't even know what it was. Hyper links duh!

But I was not deterred. I like to write. I like the challenge of getting the thought out in a way that makes sense to someone else. I like communicating. And I liked the idea that I could put this vocation to some use helping Hillary. [see laugh line above, I'm too exhausted to reinsert it]

I am now convinced that nobody actually cares about facts, reasons, arguments or the truth. They are completely beside the point. And the point you ask? The point is to score. To make fun of, to humiliate, to inundate and to pontificate. But not debate. Do not rebut an argument with facts of your own. Do not admit if your opponent scores a point. Do not ever, ever concede Anything.

And so in the blogosphere, the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination is a game that nobody wins. We aren't helping elect the most qualified person. We don't care who will run the country the best. We do not understand that the next President will either bring us back from the brink of a coup from the Right or we go over into the Abyss.

We also mostly do not talk about the amazing aspect: The Woman and The Black Man. We do not care. All we seem to care about is scoring a hit on the board. Me too. I got into it. Get that diary up. Get it recced. Go on to the next one. Respond to comments.

And who the hell cares? Huh? We are talking to ourselves. Nobody else is listening and we aren't persuading each other of anything.

Oh, maybe a few Edwards supporters decided which other candidate to support or not. And the Dodd, Biden,Richardson people did the same. But somehow that bleak hole I find myself in right now isn't impressed.

The bleak hole says this. Stop with the diaries, dumbass. Get off the merry go ground. Go read a book. Hillary has been assassinated and there ain't no pulling back from it. She has been Gored and nobody cares. She has been trashed, maligned, ridiculed, insulted, called a Pimp and a Whore. Amazing when you think about it :) Whaddya know there is a smile in there.

But bottomline here is, I am exhausted. I don't have what it takes to fight it right now. And I don't think she can either. You get a pie thrown in your face over and over, and then its 2 pies over and over and then its 3 pies over and over and at some point you just give up. You can't breathe for all the pie crap covering you. It suffocates you. We have a rightwing media which is swinging its weight to determine the Democratic nominee. And except for the Hillary backers no one seems to care. We have a media that no longer helps the electorate make fair and impartial decisions. You cannot have a democracy without a fair and free media. THAT is why I started blogging. THAT is it, right there. Ok. There I said it. I thought the blogs were the antidote. I thought they were the people reclaiming their democracy. I thought there was fairness and honesty and integrity in the blogosphere. ROFL!

I don't feel any better. I also don't know if I will send this. Nobody will much care. It's not about the candidates. Its not the latest newsworthy headline. It's just one stupid ass blogger, and not a very good one, feeling crappy.

I just don't see how the guy can plagarize words and ideas the way he does and get away with it? I don't. The voting present strategy on womens rights--he invented it!! His saying he pushed the wrong lever on seveal votes--c'mon!! He has reversed himself on nearly every major issue. So, do I believe he will put pro-women's rights candidates on the Supreme Court? The truth is, I don't know. Will he really bring the troops home? I don't know. That is a seriously different issue than if he gave a speech against the war six years ago, isn't it?

I feel such despair.  Maybe if it was a fair fight. But it's not. The game is rigged. And folks like the guy who presides over the slanted and often vicious dkos is right-on-board with it. And so is TPM! And so Is Huffpo!

We have our own slanted and lying world now...And the antidote  to the mainstream media is as aweful as they are.

So today I am going to opt out. Watch the results. Probably cry.

Tags: alsheimers, Barack Obama, Blogosphere, DKos, Hillary Clinton, southern california (all tags)



Stay with it.

No matter who wins, we MUST push this country much farther to the left and for We The People.

What is considered now to be the center in politics, is what used to be the right. How F'd up is that?

by kevin22262 2008-02-19 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Cheer up. I'm an Obama supporter and I think Hillary is still going to win it. I think she takes Wisconsin tonight and starts two weeks fo the momentum going in her direction.

by Walt Starr 2008-02-19 11:58AM | 0 recs

New game plan now!

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Don't give up because there is more fight in you than you think. This blog is a bit more friendly to HRC supporters. It would be a mistake if you allowed anyone to silence your voice. Hillary certainly hasn't. She gets up day after day and keeps. it cannot be easy, but she knows show represents every woman in one sense or the other.

Win or lose she has pushed the cause for women going forward. Of course I don't mean she is the 'women' candidate, but of course we are proud.

She is resilient and she can still pull this off.

by LadyEagle 2008-02-19 11:59AM | 0 recs
I would like to give you some support....

but an hour ago, I turned off the computer and picked up a book myself.

We don't even turn the TV on anymore.  And I don't follow the primary results because I really can't stomach the bullshit (sorry) that comes with it.

Hillary Clinton is turning into my hero.  I am so thankful that she is stronger than I could be.  

And I thank Senator Clinton for standing up and hanging in there.

To the MSM and Obamaphiles - go Cheney yourselves.  I will not - ever - under any circumstance vote for Obama.  I just won't vote.  And that pains me to say it more than anyone can imagine.

by Shazone 2008-02-19 12:03PM | 0 recs
Wait, why am I going to go fuck myself?

Because I'm not voting for Hillary Clinton?

Oy gavalt.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:13PM | 0 recs
If that's your pleasure...

be my guest.

by Shazone 2008-02-19 12:14PM | 0 recs
erectike dysfunction?

seems the they guys who like to laugh at the girl candidate need a little help fucking themselves, it you look at ad revenue for MSNBC?  

by anna shane 2008-02-19 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: erectike dysfunction?

Super classy. And you know Obama won among women in Wisconsin (and a dozen other states)?

by X Stryker 2008-02-20 04:09AM | 0 recs
Shazone, not voting is getting mad

Voting for the opponent is getting even.

Don't get mad.  Get even.

by lombard 2008-02-19 12:15PM | 0 recs
Right now I'm not mad, I'm pissed as hell.

by Shazone 2008-02-19 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Shazone, not voting is getting mad

Boy, you'll sure show Obama.  He'll lose, Roe will be overturnedcby the conservative that McCain appoints (since, by the way, he's CONSERVATIVE; if you don't believe me, please check out his voting record), and women will be back to getting back alley, coat hanger abortions.  Won't you feel so smart then?

Alternately, you could do what I will do if HRC is nominated: cry into your beer for a few months, hold your nose, and vote for someone who doesn't inspire you at all (but who does better represent your beliefs than John McCain).

Your call.

by carloseljefe 2008-02-19 07:54PM | 0 recs
Yes, it is my call

And I think I've already made it.

by lombard 2008-02-20 06:52AM | 0 recs
From the "Me Generation," Q.E.D.

"To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I spit at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."

Something to chew on during the hunt for the white whale:

2000              2008
Thomas           Thomas  (59)
Scalia             Scalia  (71)
Rehnquist        Roberts (53)
                    Alito   (57)

Kennedy          Kennedy (71)

Ginsburg         Ginsburg (74)
Stevens          Stevens  (87)
Breyer             Breyer   (69)
Souter            Souter   (68)

by carloseljefe 2008-02-22 01:37PM | 0 recs
Come down off the ledge.

Obama ran the better campaign by far, and doesn't start off with 47% negatives.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:13PM | 0 recs
Reasonable (if hyperbolic) description of events

"Hillary has been assassinated and there ain't no pulling back from it. She has been Gored and nobody cares. She has been trashed, maligned, ridiculed, insulted, called a Pimp and a Whore. Amazing when you think about it."

Yup, that is what has happened.  And the media and a chunk of the party are getting ready to kick her to the curb like last month's floozy in favor of a shallow new guy they just find more exciting.  Can she come back?  Wow, if she does, we really do know that she is Superwoman.

Well, I know I won't forget any of this (and I won't reward the process with a vote in November, either).  At least, elements of the press are starting to wake up to the failings of the Obama movement.  But it may be too little too late.

Stay away from DailyKos.  We Clinton supporters are the majority here at My DD.

by lombard 2008-02-19 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Reasonable (if hyperbolic) description of even

Just don't go into the real world.  We Obama supporters are the majority out there.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:22PM | 0 recs
just ignore the post above and stay on topic

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-19 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: just ignore the post above and stay on topic

"Stick around here. The people are so much nicer and haven't forgotten about free speech yet."

From further down the thread.

I know, I know, you weren't "preventing" me from saying anything, you were just saying that my comment was irrelevant...

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: just ignore the post above and stay on topic

you are whats wrong with party unity!

by divabunny 2008-02-19 03:53PM | 0 recs
Hah! You wish! Maybe on college campuses.

Everywhere else, you're a minority, and, by November, half of your lot will be too embarrased to admit they supported him.

by lombard 2008-02-19 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Hah! You wish! Maybe on college campuses.

Obama - 1263 delegates
Clinton - 1212 delegates

From CNN.com

No, not just college campuses, but in Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Washington DC, Delaware, Connecticut and Maine.

Popular vote totals reflect the same.

These are just numbers, though.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:52PM | 0 recs
I participated in my caucus

About 4.5% of my state's population did.  I don't call that a majority.  In Washington state, about 1.3% of eligible voters participated in the Democratic caucus.  Some majority.

Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, North Dakota, Iowa, Missouri, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia,  and South Carolina.

What do all of these states have in common.  They are all places where Obama will be buried in November.

by lombard 2008-02-19 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I participated in my caucus

Oh, I'm sorry, a majority of PEOPLE THAT VOTE.

From dkos, which may be Obamaland, but these polls are from SurveyUSA.

Virginia. 2/15-17. 554 registered voters. MoE 4.2%

McCain 45%
Obama 51%

McCain 48%
Clinton 45%

Iowa. 2/15-17. 563 registered voters. MoE 4.2%

McCain 41%
Obama 51%

McCain 52%
Clinton 41%

Obama leading hypothetical matchups in red states?  Hey, we can probably add Missouri in there, too, considering it's a swing state that's been very close in the last four years...MUCH more blue than VIRGINIA.

Clap clap, clap clap clap.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 05:08PM | 0 recs
I misspoke when I included Iowa

There are enough dreamy goof balls there for him to have a good chance of winning that state.  Same with Minnesota.  Probably, Wisconsin, too.

But I don't back off any of the others (including Missouri).

Can we please end this conversation here?  I don't care much for sustained dialogue with Obamadroids.

by lombard 2008-02-19 05:35PM | 0 recs
You are the reason Hillary is losing

and Obama is winning.  Hate against hope.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: You are the reason Hillary is losing

"Hate against hope."

"Hope"? Try "hype" That's what Obama drivel sounds like to me. I won't vote for someone with barely two years of experience in the Senate, with no meaningful legislation to his credit, who hasn't proven he can govern competently, who doesn't display the maturity or good judgement to restrain his impulse to power in order to gain the experience a person needs to be the president of this country. It's rank selfishness, and manipulative rhetoric.

Hillary Clinton is vastly more experienced, sincerely caring, and has the in depth knowledge and hard earned perspective so necessary to leading this country safely and well. She is being Swiftboated by her fellow Democrats, it's disgusting.

Hillary Clinton is far better than her campaign, the Obama campaign is better than the real Obama.

by 07rescue 2008-02-20 03:35AM | 0 recs
Re: You are the reason Hillary is losing
How'd that "hard-earned perspective" work out on the Iraq invasion?
Time to move on.  We're sick and tired of the Clinton soap opera and the triangulation.  We want a person with convictions, not a flag burning amendment.
by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-20 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I misspoke when I included Iowa

VROOM VROOM! More states to be thrown under the Clinton bus!

I've never seen a campaign so proficient at giving up on things early cling so tenaciously to the idea that victory will eventually come.

by X Stryker 2008-02-20 04:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I participated in my caucus

If just a few more of you Obama supporters would at least admit that there is a huge problem with misogyny in this election, if you would at least acknowledge our pain and anger about this, maybe we would be able to get over the fracturing of our party and come together behind Obama in the fall.

But you don't. You just can't do it. Where is your empathy? Where is your intelligence, for that matter?

It's going to take a lifetime of loyalty to the Democratic Party for me to vote for Obama at this point. I'm not working for him and I'm not giving him a dime.

You ought to think a little harder about the consequences of your attitude, and the attitude of the Obama campaign as a whole. You are doing yourselves no favors.

by OtherLisa 2008-02-19 08:34PM | 0 recs
I wont admit

it's a huge problem, only a very small one.  Matthews is a jerk and his obsession about the Hillary Emotional Moment before NH really annoyed me, though I think he ended up helping Hillary more than anything.  On the flip side, he completely humiliated an Obama-supporting TX state senator last night by demanding he list Obama's legislative accomplishments (the guy couldn't).  

The stuff about "cleavage" six months ago was offensive, and I don't get the pantsuit jokes.  But that's about it.  The well-run Obama campaign has scrupulously avoided any gender-based criticisms of Hillary (and he didn't excuse his primary losses by referring to majority-women electorates).  I find it's the Hillary campaign who has been pushing her message from a woman's perspective aggressively: the constant references to mothers telling their daughters they can do anything, the woman-dominated backdrops at her rallies and empty rhetoric like "women's rights are human rights", as if anyone would disagree with that in modern America.

It would be great for a woman to win the nomination and the White House, and it's long overdue.  But the trap in that line of thinking is feeling compelled to vote for the first viable woman to come along.  I think Hillary's faltering is more due to her inferior skill as a campaigner and her inability to trust her own judgment.

by corph 2008-02-20 05:49AM | 0 recs
My lifetime of loyalty won't stop me

from jumping ship.  Voted for Reagan and some other Republicans along the way.

Personally, I think this nomination says bad things about our party on a number of levels (including sexism) and I don't care to reward or ratify it.  

by lombard 2008-02-20 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Reasonable (if hyperbolic) description of even

Thank goodness the Obama supporters out in the real world aren't like the more outspoken ones you see on DailyKos.

by OrangeFur 2008-02-19 01:24PM | 0 recs
The hell.

DKos posters are on average much better informed and fair to candidates than the general electorate.  Their anti-Hillary posts may sting more because they're more substantive.

Think of it this way: which criticism of Hillary Clinton are you more likely to think about and respond to:

1. Hillary is a shrill feminazi who had Vince Foster killed and wants to castrate the presidency.

2. Senator Clinton admits to not having read the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate before voting to authorize the use of force against Iraq.

Admit it, you don't like the hard-hitting dKos posts because they're harder to dismiss.

by corph 2008-02-20 05:54AM | 0 recs
Take Care of Yourself

Our views are far apart on this campaign, but what you wrote makes me wish you peace and pray for you.

What you're doing, caring for your mother at this point in her life, is the hardest thing I can imagine doing.  I watched my mom care for my grandparents as my grandfather (who ultimately died last year at 100)  declined and disappeared to alzheimers over the period of a decade.  It was so hard on all of us physically and emotionally I still have a hard time thinking about it and I was only helping.   My mother was doing the day-to-day caregiving, the hardest job I could ever imagine having.

Whatever you can do to take care of yourself, I hope you do it.  My thoughts and prayers are with you, for whatever that's worth.

by mijita 2008-02-19 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Take Care of Yourself

Of course there is.  

As I said above, what you're dealing with caring for your mother is so hard.  

My mom is one of the bravest people I've ever known but we would sit together some days and just cry because there was nothing else we could do.  Then just pick ourselves up and keep on going.  Taking care of my grandmother as her body failed but her mind stayed with us was nothing like as hard.

Just reading your words brought it all back. I'm so sorry.  Alzheimers is so cruel and unfair.

Hand in there.  Caring for her is such a great gift you're giving as a daughter.

by mijita 2008-02-19 02:07PM | 0 recs
I was struck by this section of your diary

"I am now convinced that nobody actually cares about facts, reasons, arguments or the truth. They are completely beside the point. And the point you ask? The point is to score. To make fun of, to humiliate, to inundate and to pontificate. But not debate. Do not rebut an argument with facts of your own. Do not admit if your opponent scores a point. Do not ever, ever concede Anything.

And so in the blogosphere, the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination is a game that nobody wins. We aren't helping elect the most qualified person. We don't care who will run the country the best. We do not understand that the next President will either bring us back from the brink of a coup from the Right or we go over into the Abyss.

We also mostly do not talk about the amazing aspect: The Woman and The Black Man. We do not care. All we seem to care about is scoring a hit on the board. Me too. I got into it. Get that diary up. Get it recced. Go on to the next one. Respond to comments.

And who the hell cares? Huh? We are talking to ourselves. Nobody else is listening and we aren't persuading each other of anything."

Those are my thoughts and my frustrations.  We have all lost the ability to discuss.  Somewhere you referenced a pie fight and that is exactly how this feels to me -- shut down the discussion by any means necessary.  when the same old off-topic talking point doesn't work, try a good old-fashioned unsubstantiated smear, when that doesn't work question the credibility of the poster, when that doesn't work say something ugly, when that doesn't work look for spelling errors, when that doesn't work rub their nose in something, when that doesn't work become all overcome with boredom and the triviality of exchanges with those lesser than you.

By the time the pies have stopped flying the diary is usually dead, off the front page -- the original intent of it has been subverted, no genuine questions have been answered, no valuable thought has been exchanged.  

I'm going to say what you don't want to hear perhaps -- both sides are doing it.  I took the liberty of searching your comment thread and see many many times where you were troll rated for nothing or next to nothing.  ( and a few times I think you deserved it) I understand the frustration you are expressing.  I see how we all too easily get sucked into the ooze.

I wish everyone here interested in honest exchange of thought would agree to a set of simple guidelines --
1. no more pet names for the other side
2. police your own as vigorously as you do them
3. watch out for the all and never statements
4. back up your assertions with links and quotes whenever possible
5.  If a comment raised your blood pressure ignore it
6. don't allow the pies to derail the discussion

This is no different from any other unmoderated internet discussion board.  Every A-hole has an opinion and anonymity makes for bold crap slingers.

Don't stop writing unless it really feels harmful to your well being.  Ignore the buffoons and thugs in the public square. Democracy has always depended on that.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-19 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: I was struck by this section of your diary

"And so in the blogosphere, the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination is a game that nobody wins. We aren't helping elect the most qualified person. We don't care who will run the country the best. We do not understand that the next President will either bring us back from the brink of a coup from the Right or we go over into the Abyss."

Here's the thing.  As a Hillary supporter, YOU aren't helping to elect the most qualified person.

I would argue that Joe Biden is better qualified to be President than a former first lady and senator for eight years.  Too far to the right?  Chris Dodd has been a consistent voice against FISA and in support of many progressive ideas, AND has DECADES of experience in the Senate.

I assume that you weren't a supporter of one of these candidates, thus meaning you weren't trying to elect the "most qualified" person.

I'm not DOWNPLAYING that Hillary has put in a lot of work to help America, I'm simply saying that you're not voting for Hillary because she was the "most qualified" of all of the candidates.

Here's the qualification I like most about Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee:  47% of Americans don't hate him already.  In fact, he has shown the ability to not only appeal to Democrats, but to Independents and Republicans.  Let me repeat that:  The most liberal senator in that body appeals to Republicans, too.

Believing that someone can take politics in a new direction is an actual voter sentiment, not a sign of mental deficiency.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: I was struck by this section of your diary

And 47% of Americans don't hate Hillary. As we've seen polls and percentages can be easily rigged or, er, mistaken, whatever...they can be wrong. So, if your whole argument is some poll that says Hillary has high-negatives, don't believe it...it's not accurate. Look at their experience, their ability to take over as Commander in Chief during a time of war, to run the economy during a depression, to solve the health care crisis...these are the things you should look at. They'll give you a much better picture of who is really most qualified to be president. Go Hillary.

I heard the greatest anti-bush line the other day...a republican woman voting for Hillary..."I don't want to have a beer with her, but I trust her to get the country on the right track and fix all these problems we have."

by seattlegonz 2008-02-19 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I was struck by this section of your diary


You're denying that Hillary has high negatives?

Let's pretend polls don't exist.  You really and honestly don't see a world where almost all Republicans and many Independents hate Hillary.

Again, oy gavalt.

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: I was struck by this section of your diary

Hillary is the best qualified candidate if you judge with a fair mind.

And if you judge with a fair mind, you will see Obama is a new face with a new name who hasn't bring any new idea to the table.

He hasn't produced any change.  Edwards has done more projects than him.  

Obama qualification that you chose already said it all - his appeal.
I have begun to see that his appeal might not be so real anymore after we know him a bit better.  If his appeal is fault, there is no reason to hire this guy to be the president.

For me Hillary might be extremely unlikable, but that's not one of the qualifications.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-19 02:37PM | 0 recs
Ooh, my favorite fallacy!

The No True Scotsman.

Qualified...meh.  It's not a self-defining term.  Clinton is 14 years older than Obama, so she's got to have more experience at something.

She has 4 more years of Senate experience, at a time when the US Senate as a whole did a particularly bad job serving the country.  Her IWR, Iran Rev. Guard and flag burning votes deserve plenty of criticism, at least from our side.  I would argue that Obama's work as a community organizer, constitutional law lecturer and State Senator are at least as relevant.

By the way, Obama's lofty rhetoric leaves me cold too.  I wish he showed more courage and spoke more substantively.  But I admire his intellect and, so far, his extraordinary political skill.  Remember, he's not speaking to the informed electorate as much as the downtrodden and the disaffected with politics.  Bringing so many new people in to the process can't be a bad thing.

by corph 2008-02-20 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: I was struck by this section of your diary

I don't think this election is about experience at all, if it were, we'd still be talking about Biden and Richardson.  This election is about 'perceived' change.  Well, look at the two candidates, a black man and a white woman.  All that change and now neither of their constituents will vote for the other(Most of them would rather vote for McCane, ain't that a bitch?).  It's a joke and no wonder we're in the situation we're in.  They're politicians and it doesn't matter the race or gender, they're all cut from the same cloth.  

by venavena 2008-02-19 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama can't do anything of the sort

9 million voting Americans disagree.

And this being a democracy and all...

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 05:12PM | 0 recs
700,000 individual donors.

That's people power, baby!

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:19PM | 0 recs
Do you catch the tag team, Linfar?

From the two Obama moonies.  One softens you up with sympathy like a typical con artist and the other starts the conversion.

One of them slipped and addressed one my my post above (he knew I wasn't persuadable) with the usual fascist arrogance and the other told him to ignore my post and stick to his mission.

by lombard 2008-02-19 12:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Do you catch the tag team, Linfar?

Hi there.


1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control"

From MW.com

Nowhere did I express that Obama should be dictator.  I do think he'd make a pretty good President, though.

Please don't go "Jonah Goldberg" on me and start claiming fascism when someone says something you don't like.

Oh, and the poster who said to ignore the comment was saying to ignore MY comment, not yours.  Does that make him fascist?

by The Great Gatsby 2008-02-19 12:56PM | 0 recs
OK, I can understand you enjoyment, but

...I'm hoping they don't move over here en masse.  They're like a bad element that ruins the neighborhood.

by lombard 2008-02-19 01:00PM | 0 recs
Civility in short supply

Bitter schoolyard taunts more the norm.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: OK, I can understand you enjoyment, but

Many of us were here before you guys were. And it's almost certain that many of us will come back. The question is whether it will be before the convention or after.

by X Stryker 2008-02-20 04:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Hang in there. Myself, I decided to blog less and work harder on her campaign by going to Iowa, Kansas and Missouri. And using my free weekend cell phone time to make as many calls on her behalf as possible.

by KnowVox 2008-02-19 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Thanks for the diary...I share your despair. Without a free and unbiased media we get 8 years of GWB, and possibly worse. We must fight, but we must take breaks as well.

Obama and his supporters have engaged in the GOP strategy of character assassination, and have been able to successfully get some democrats to think that they hate Hillary. I've even seen them arguing that Hillary is conducting a hateful, cynical, negative campaign...oh, lord. That is where the perception of Obamatrons comes from -- the blind adoration, which ignores the reality of what is happening.

I always had a fear of myself as a go-along person. I worried that I would've been a good Nazi citizen, not able to see the popular attraction, grand stage and mesmerizing speeches of Adolf Hitler. (Despite the frequent use of Hitlery to describe Hillary, Obama is actually running a campaign more similar to Hitlers, but I'm not likening Obama to Hitler and I reject the Hitlery accusations as GOP garbage disseminated by Obama and supporters to infect the democratic party.) The point is -- the one good thing from all this -- I now know I am a resistance fighter, one who will fight for what's right even if the media and many followers of the leadership try to get me to stop.

To me this is a fight for the democratic party and we must not give up. We must not allow GOP strategists and independents to hijack the democratic nomination process. I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but it's important.

At the same time -- rest, re-invigorate, get something to eat, read, take a walk, and then come back. We'll still be here fighting on. Viva Le Resistance!

by seattlegonz 2008-02-19 12:24PM | 0 recs
Hey, I'm on your side but

lay off the Hitler references, mookay?

you are better than that at making an argument.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-19 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey, I'm on your side but

I know, I didn't want to do it...but, the Hitlery thing, coming from democrats, really pisses me off.

So, I coped by thinking of myself as a resistance fighter...after spending a week or two a DKos it felt right.

by seattlegonz 2008-02-19 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey, I'm on your side but

Hey, why are Hitler references off limits? One of the very first things I felt after seeing Obama in person was that there are grave dangers to seductive, "inspiring" demagoguery. There is no way of knowing what this person will actually do if he gets elected to the office of president. He has reversed his positions on many issues, and voted "present" far too many times for my comfort. I don't trust him at all, and won't vote for him.

Hitler is one of those profound examples of "inspiration" gone horrendously wrong, and there are lessons to be learned from such history that should never be forgotten. The German public swooned over Hitler, and he led them over a cliff, a murderous cliff that tarnished their country to this day because of the genocide they committed under his inspiring leadership. An educated citizenry should be ever alert for being mislead by well designed image campaigns by seductive speakers, and try to be vigilant when groupthink threatens to take over.

Too much power is at stake to let ourselves be easily taken in by showmanship. Pretending these things cannot happen here is sheer denial, a dangerous attitude to adopt. I think the reminder that Hitler started out as a charismatic, magnetic leader  in his country is apt.

by 07rescue 2008-02-20 04:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Thank you Linfar. That's why finding Hillarys Voice was so helpful...so we can support each other in this epic battle.

Over and over though I say, "Wow, after 8 years of cowboy and knee-jerk reactionary leadership, we need Hillary. She does not over-react to any of this constant GOP attack...she's the person I want to be in command of the most potent military in the world." She won't be goaded into a conflict that's for sure. To me, she's grace personified. I get strength from her...I figure if she can keep going, so can I.

by seattlegonz 2008-02-19 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Egg Pie Works

Great Seratonin Recipe
4 Eggs
Whole Grain Pie Shell
1/2 C Mozzerella
1/4 C Cottage Cheese
1 T Flax seed
1 T Wheat Germ
1 T crushed garlic
chopped onions

Mix ingredients together and bake in shell for 40-45 minutes on 350 degrees, or until inserted fork comes out clean.

All ingredients contain life giving properties, stabilize blood sugar, and have neuro-nutrients that will enhance dopamine, seratonin, norepinepherine and decrease cravings. Thus in effect, you can boost your mood and lose fat.

by freespeechnow 2008-02-19 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

I agree. I've found the blogosphere isn't about free speech, it's about a lot of big egos and petty one-upmanship. So many of the major "progressive" blogs and sites claim to be about covering issues that are ignored by the MSM, but instead their coverage focuses on the site owners' pet peeves and personal preferences. They've actually succeeded in driving me back to the MSM. The MSM is plenty biased, but it's a more consistent, predictable, and obvious pro-business bias, and they use much better grammar.

by LakersFan 2008-02-19 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Exactly.  And if we want "unmoderated" speech, we can create our OWN blogs. That's what blogger is for!

Although MyDD is still actually pretty reasonable about the free speech thing.  It's about the only major blog that is.

(In other words, I'm with you!)

by Sensible 2008-02-19 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work
I have wondered why many Obama supporters are so proud to be a bully.  Not all of them are, but most of them are bully.  I have wondered why Obama is so good at bringing about the dark side of people.  His supporters want to silence other candidate supporters.
I have been insulted by Obama supporters in the past 3 weeks more than I have ever been in my entire life.
by JoeySky18 2008-02-19 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

I think the ones who are proud to be bullies tend to be one of the following:

1. GOP trolls.

2. People who voted for Bush, but now they've decided they were duped by the GOP and want change. They've spent too many years listening to right-wing hate radio, so bullying and Clinton-bashing is second nature to them.

by LakersFan 2008-02-19 03:40PM | 0 recs
Thanks Linfar...

for a great diary. Don't lose hope. There are good folk left in networld yet.

by Mariel 2008-02-19 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Dont give up
cause you have friends
Dont give up
Youre not the only one
Dont give up
No reason to be ashamed
Dont give up
You still have us
Dont give up now
Were proud of who you are
Dont give up
You know its never been easy
Dont give up
Cause I believe there's a place
There's a place where we belong

Peter Gabriel

by sequoit 2008-02-19 01:35PM | 0 recs

It is called herd mentality (swarming is the word researchers use).  Once you form a herd (or swarm),  it does not matter who is a leader and who is a follower... in a sense, everyone is a leader, and everyone is a follower.  And, interestingly enough...the herd will act in ways that go against individual interests.

Scientists study this all the time...in flocks of birds, in insects, in a lynch mob...and they will probably study it on the blogosphere one day too.

by SevenStrings 2008-02-19 01:35PM | 0 recs
Nice analogy

Very apt in this case, too.  This herd is also going to go against not just individual interests, but the herd's interests.  We'll lose the White House.

by Montague 2008-02-19 03:45PM | 0 recs
By the way, Linfar...

if you haven't already--open up an account on Taylor Marsh and join the pro-hillary, anti-sexism, intelligent, mature community we are. (many kossack exiles there)

by Mariel 2008-02-19 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Great post.  Don't give up yet - Hillary hasn't.  Remember when in NH Hillary teared up and the media was all over it.  They interviewed the woman she was speaking to, and she said she was supporting Obama.  She said Hillary had an open moment, then afterward, she "tensed up" and went back to being guarded (or words to that effect).  To me, this is the strength that Hillary has, no matter how she is being trashed in the media or the by the right wing machine, she just squares her shoulders and goes on. She doesn't collapse when times are tough, she doesn't gloat or preen when things are great. She just gets ready to confront the next issue.  She is a tough cookie, and that's just what we need now to get this country out of the mess it has been put into over the last 7 years.  I just don't believe Obama has it in him.

by AnnC 2008-02-19 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

She has what was called "true grit" in a John Wayne movie.

I Can't believe I referenced a Wayne movie, considering he was such a right winger...

Oh well.

by splashy 2008-02-20 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Hope not -- what would Kos be without the  Psychos?  ;)

Seriously, I like reading your comments at Kos.

The extremes of both campaigns are ugly right now.  I comfort myself with the knowledge they aren't the majority of either side.  And that in a few months I'll get to work to get a democrat elected to the White House.

(Repeats "this too shall pass" 5X.)

by mijita 2008-02-19 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

I hope you feel better now after you wrote it down.  It normally helps.   We can't quit her now.

She fights DEM opponents.
She fights Media mud sling.
She fights anti-Hillary group.
She fights GOP shadow in the open primary.
She fights the old boy clubs.

She only has us, Hillary's supporters.  So it's up to us to help her win the election.  This campaign has been all about us.  We need her to be the president so she can help fix our problems.

She never quit, and her spirit keeps me going.

She's a diamond, strong, bright, and precious.  

"Success is failure turned inside out -
the silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
and when you never can tell how close you are,
it may be near when it seems afar;
so stick to the fight when you're hardest hit -
it's when things seem worst,
you must not quit."  Edgar A. Guest

by JoeySky18 2008-02-19 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Oh brother, comparing U.S elections to the ones in Pakistan? Are you kidding? The U.S certainly isn't a shining beacon of voting rights, but Pakistan it ain't. Your hyperbole make me wonder whether your cries of misogyny are also equally hyperbolic. Sad.

Boo. Your candidate MIGHT lose tonight. Get over it. People are dying in an illegitimate war we started. Children are dying from preventable diseases throughout Africa. 1 in 5 of Americans living in poverty is a CHILD! A fraking primary election has got you depressed? Get some perspective. Sheesh!

by crazymoloch 2008-02-19 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

well, the way voting is done, I can't say that it's much better off than many developing country.

Bully in caucus, no ID require in caucus, no checking if you really live in that precinct or not, republican shadow can rig dem nominee.   I expect better thing from voting in the US.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-19 02:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

As someone who has lived in a third world country, I  can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

p.s: I don't get what has you Hillary supporters down anyway. The turnout numbers and demographic profile actually looks to favor Hillary.

by crazymoloch 2008-02-19 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Agree,  Democrat Party need to overhaul their system.  It's pretty bad.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-19 02:54PM | 0 recs

I can't stand it when people write about old diaries or blog posts on other sites and don't link. I stop reading as soon as I see that kind of behavior. It's poor blogging.

by Jumbo 2008-02-19 03:03PM | 0 recs
Stand back, this boil's going to pop!
linfar, I am a kossack in exile and Hillary supporter.  I got banned last month and just decided to start my own blog.  It's been great fun.  I can post all the diaries I want and I can say things I like too.  
The big orange satan isn't all that hot anymore.  It's really gone down hill since YK07.  So, don't be too depressed.  I suspect the Clintonistas who are still there are a bit trigger happy and suffering from PTSD to be as welcoming as they should have been.  Trust me, most of them are very nice people.  Anyway, I think the pundits are pushing with all of their might to get Obama the nomination but Hillary keeps hanging in there, much to their chagrin.  Peggy Noonan, Frank Rich and Maureen Dowd have all shown signs of frustration in the past couple of weeks.  She's like a frickin' zombie to them.  And in that I find some hope.  Because Hillary is winning the big important states, which means that a lot of people are paying no attention to the media.  And if that's true, the media is going to find that no one is paying attention to its hyperbolic craziness about everything Clinton.  And when THAT happens, we win.  Clinton will have neutralized their power.  Sort of in the same way that Bill Clinton refused to resign during the Lewinski ordeal.  He just tuffed it out.  Oh, sure, they were still screeching even when he left but he went out on a high note.  
So, cheer up.  There's a good possibility that Hillary will lance this boil and the media will have to start actually reporting the news instead of trying to make it if it wants to remain relevent.  
Come together at The Confluence
by goldberry 2008-02-19 03:24PM | 0 recs
Today I felt like almost the only one

left at DailyBarackos.  I shall search you out and give you mojo!

Plus, you are indeed funny, much funnier than the Obama people.

by Montague 2008-02-19 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

My heart goes out to you and your mother. I just got back from a week with my 88-year-old grandmother. I sympathize with you about the difficulty of blogging for Hillary over at DKos. Keep in mind that it could be anyone hurling around the insulting stuff, it's not necessarily Obama supporters.

I spent quite a bit of time on the Obama grassroots campaign here in California and I never heard anything negative about Hillary from anyone in the "real world". People respect her for her intelligence, her years of service, for her role in her husband's administration (and they love Bill for the most part, so long as he's not flinging mud at Barack). I was told repeatedly by the campaign not to say anything negative about Hillary, but to just focus on Obama's positives.

But in the online world, anonymity means that anyone can purport to be an Obama supporter and say anything. I've read posts at Free Republic urging a strategy of creating as much division and discord in the Democratic Party as possible right now in order to give themselves the best possible change in November. So, take it all with a grain of salt, it's just a bunch of digital ink floating in the ether of cyberspace. Hopefully we'll all be united soon enough.

by dmc2 2008-02-19 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

First off I insulted a famous and very popular Hillary blogger who still has not forgiven me.

Do you really need forgiveness? For posting on a blog? Good Lord, what horrid thing did you utter?

Second off, another Hillary blogger became upset over a diary which evolved out of watching my Mom.

That's okay. This is a blog - people get upset. Don't sweat it.

Nobody listened to Anything.

Again, this is a blog. People post to hear themselves more than others.

I like to write. I like communicating.

Great! Keep at it! Please don't let assholes stop you from writing on blogs.

Ok, good, I thought. These folks will listen to reason and well thought out arguments. They will respond to a careful vetting of their 'guy.' This is great. I can do some good for Hillary here.

You make it sound like you (and HRC supporters) are right and Obama supporters are wrong. I can assure that the reasons that I (and other supporters) support Obama over Hillary are extremely well thought out. Do you want to hear those reasons? I didn't think so. If this was a year and a half ago, you might have some luck convincing people of your position. It's a bit late for that now - given the time we've had to learn about the candidates.

I am now convinced that nobody actually cares about facts, reasons, arguments or the truth. They are completely beside the point. And the point you ask? The point is to score. To make fun of, to humiliate, to inundate and to pontificate. But not debate. Do not rebut an argument with facts of your own. Do not admit if your opponent scores a point. Do not ever, ever concede Anything.

Hold the phone! You got here at the worst time possible...when people are verbally attacking each other based on their choice of candidate. Come back after the nomination has been decided...or maybe even a bit after that...and I assure things will "return to normal." Yeah, it can always get a bit "hot" but this is a unique situation with two candidates in a dead heat each with their own extremely loyal following. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!

I thought there was fairness and honesty and integrity in the blogosphere.

Sorry but you're dealing with general public here. Wash your hands often and hopefully you'll stay healthy.

I can't relate to your anti-Obama statements. They are just as utterly subjective as the reasons we support Obama. As I said above, we have many very well considered reasons for supporting Obama (or possibly any of the Dem. nominees) over Hillary and I'm not going to go into them here.

Sounds like you're really bummed about a lot of things...from rude behavior from bloggers to things getting worse for HRC. Rarely, does your #1 choice get selected. Mine didn't - I was an Edwards supporter. As I said, this is a "bad" time for blogging. Don't let it sour you on the entire process.

by desertjedi 2008-02-19 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work
I feel the same way.  Granted I think HRC ran a pretty lousy campaign in Wisconsin, and that pisses me off, but it doesn't nulify the hurt.  Just seeing thing after thing, poll after poll, makes me want to ditch the campaign.  I think that many of us should focus on the Senate.  There are some exiting candidates there that can produce a large majority.  
It seems like many Obama supporters see this is the rightful end of RFK '68.  I don't think it is but that probably does not matter.  5 out of the last six Presidents have had pretty thin records.  Maybe I just misjudged peoples desire for feeling good about rhetoric over action.  
by ha0kan 2008-02-19 06:24PM | 0 recs
President Obama to you.

Get used to it!

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-02-19 08:21PM | 0 recs
Ditto on the taking care of yourself
If you can, make sure you don't have anything physical going on that's making you even more tired and down. A simple CBC blood test can rule out thyroid or low-iron problems which are very common and widely undiagnosed in women.
Chronic sleep deprivation, common to care-givers,  can actually cause either of these (iron metabolism & sleep are linked).
Gentle hugs.
by votermom 2008-02-20 04:13AM | 0 recs
It's only politics.

The only reason I find it helpful to discuss what is happening, is to learn about the candidates and intellectually debate their pros and cons. I appreciate your opinion, please continue to share it, I will continue to listen.

by smurf 2008-02-20 05:30AM | 0 recs
You're not going to get booted.

BTW, free speech applies to the Government, not to any blog.  Just ask Kid Oakland who got booted off the reclist for straightening out Jerome yesterday.

I'd love to see a few more provocative Hillary diehards on dKos.  It's unseemly to exhibit schadenfreude normally, but hey, if you provoke us...


I'm funnier than they are.
one so modest as yourself.

by corph 2008-02-20 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Daily Insults Work

Consider me another of your instant fans.  It's funny how things happen.  Just today I came to the same conclusion as you did; I could no longer invest as much of myself as I was in politics and activism.  It was feeling futile and harmful to myself to continue trying to get people to stop and listen to what Obama is saying and urge them to demand more from him.   And then I came to this blog to respond to a post about front groups vs. grassroots organizations like MoveOn.  I didn't want to dispute the point about front groups, only challenge the blogger's use of MoveOn as an exemplary grassroots organization.  They may have started as one and they still function by getting citizens involved in grassroots activities but the focus of the organization's efforts and activities is driven solely by the leaders of the organization, without any input or participation of their members. And ironically it is their very grassroots heritage that gives them cover to function solely from the top down.  MoveOn's communication model allows for only a one-way flow of information; from the organization down to members.  The total lack of any infrastructure for information to travel from members to organization, save for a help button that is for technical support and nearly impossible to get any response in any case, it is extremely disingenuous and patently false to both position them or refer to them as a member driven organization.  Yes, they engage a consultant to provide field organizers for them but these people are busy finding members to take on the role of regional coordinator who is then responsible for building up local councils.  The field organizer reports back, but anything they bring to MoveOn is second or third generation information.  In other words MoveOn has no one in the field whose sole function is to "listen." And the conference calls they hold with regional directors is primarily to disseminate information, if there is any discussion about what members are saying it is in reference to the events being discussed and nothing like an "open mike" for anyone to talk about what is going on in their region or what members are talking about, again, unless it is germane to the event being discussed. And finally any argument about the fact that they do polls among their members to find out what they think and how the organization should act is the biggest red herring.  In research circles there is an express "garbage in, garbage out" which one can argue is applicable to MoveOn.  Without knowing what members are thinking and feeling it is virtually impossible to develop a poll that will accurately reflect or measure what they want.  Polls developed without knowledge of what members are interested in voting on only yields results about things the powers that be at MoveOn determine is important and what they want to hear.  It does not necessarily reflect what their members care about or want to vote on.  To my way of thinking, all of this debunks the notion that MoveOn is a member driven organization and I wish people would start to recognize this.  Okay, sorry, I've been wanting to get that off my chest for a long, long time.  But now back to the issues you raise in your post.  

I can't tell you how much your words resonated for me.  I found myself in a very similar situation; writing a diary, the second I'd every written and posted on a blog other than my own, about my total frustration with the Obama candidacy, not the man, which I thought I made clear.  I even acknowledged he was probably a great Senator, i.e., I wasn't taking issue with his voting record.  With the exception of some posters who recognized what I was going through and defended my diary as it was similar to their own experiences, I was instantly bombarded with insults, snark, readers who were apparently talking just to each other, since I hadn't a clue what they were talking about, and accusations of being a HRC troll. I waded through and responded to as many as I could, in what I thought was a very calm and thoughtful manner.  I even read a lot of the material they all, unanimously insisted I read before I dare speak out again.  It was amazing how many suggested I read the 64 page pdf on his website if I wanted to know what Obama is talking about when he speaks of change.  I tried in several responses to explain how that was not at all a satisfactory response for a candidate who has been out campaigning as long as Obama has, but I doubt that will register.  And after going through all their suggested reading I found myself more incensed and frustrated than I was before.  And by the way, it's not as if I hadn't read anything or heard the man talk prior to writing my diary.  I was well aware of what he was espousing on the campaign trail.  I was even accused of mimicking the Republican's talking points about Obama that McCain is currently using.  My post on DailyKos starts claiming that I was not writing the diary to support Clinton but to raise awareness of Obama.  I added that and several other points after I got some initial feedback to the first version of my diary.  I agree with everyone's comments here about Clinton and have about 6 million more words to describe my utter frustration, disgust and disbelief at how she is treated in the media and even among elected officials, but that is for another time.  That itself deserves a long, deep look at what goes on in this country.  This is the link to my Dailykos diary.  That itself deserves a long, deep look at what goes on in this country.  This is the link to my Dailykos diary. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/24/ 242526/911/873/456787

After reading all his website info and speeches I was left feeling worse.  I wrote to someone I met online to get her take:  I've been examining it from all angles and believe I've figured out what I find objectionable. Obama is asking people to have hope once again because he will bring people together and through that togetherness we will achieve change, i.e., "yes we can."  He talks about bringing the citizens together and Washington together, i.e., the Democrats and Republicans.  And our hope "for a better world/place, etc." will be realized through working together.  A lot of people are inspired by the message and the messenger.  I actually resent this message in that for the most part he is putting the burden on the back's of the American people, we have to come together.  The reality is that despite some of the things that get a lot of play in the news, the level of divisiveness among citizens is probably at an all-time low.  In terms of wanting change, we as the citizens, have been saying we want change now for over 2 years, the 2006 election was a strong statement of our desire for change, poll figures, released almost daily, show a significant downward trend on probably every measure of satisfaction or acceptance of the way things are in this country, i.e., the citizens want change.   Citizens HAVE been asking for change for a while now, it is the government who has been completely deaf to any and all requests for change.  So Obama's claim that "the power of millions of voice can't be stopped" is patently ridiculous, as has been proven over the past two years.  As for the government the Democrats have not voted along party lines in what seems like forever, despite this being the case for almost all Republican votes over the past 2 years.  Bringing the Democrats and Republicans together was Lieberman's message and look where that went.  I personally don't want the Democrats to work any harder to get along with the Republicans I want them to stand up to the Republicans in defense of what were once Democratic values.

Obama's attitude and solutions to things feel supremely naive, as though the country has just gone through some rough times but if we all pull together it will all be fine.  Obama talks about ending this war as though that is all there is to it.  What about the larger issue; how the war symbolizes the countries move to imperialism; invading countries, unprovoked, that have not undermined our national security.  What about the lies that were purposely told in order to go to war?  What about what we did in Iraq and the destruction of the Iraqi people's homeland?  Who will rebuild the infrastructure?  Obama says he will prevent the US from building permanent bases in Iraq, excuse me the base is already built and it is the biggest and most expense base this country has ever built.  Can't he even get the facts straight?

What about the incredible damage this war and Bush's presidency have caused to our standing in the world, how some of our allies now think Russia and Putin are better models of world leaders, world leadership.  Obama has a plan to end the proliferation of nuclear weapons, what about the much bigger question on the table, where does the US have the authority to decide who can and cannot have nuclear weapons?  Russia supports Iran having nuclear weapons, why do we get to say they don't or that North Korea can't have them, why does Pakistan get to have them?  What gives us the right to decide these days, that is the question.  And Bush has violated the constitution and awarded himself executive power greater than any Monarch, all under the guise of being a war president and national security, will Obama denounce every bit of power Bush endowed the presidency with?  Will he officially end this countries war status?  Obama says he will restore habeas corpus, I could be off but the only way I can imagine he can do this is to no longer declare whatever war status bush and the neo-cons believe grant presidents unlimited power during such a time and by no longer having war status habeas corpus just magically returns?  There was no legislature overturning it how does it get returned?  And what if it does, somehow, what is Obama going to do with all those who were denied it?  What is going to happen to all those people in hellholes regardless of the habeas corpus issue?  I don't hear him having any plans for these types of issues, I don't even hear him talking about them as though they exist.  It is just the war in Iraq, the economy and lobbyists that are the problem.  And how does he plan on doing away with special interests and lobbyists?  It isn't as though others haven't tried before and he isn't going to have an entirely willing congress, don't forget there are plenty of democrats in congress who vote republican and where does he think the extremely partisan republicans are going?.  These are the issues I want to hear about, how Obama will handle these issues.  And the whole issue of the complete collapse of journalism and the fourth estate in this country is a serious issue.  The demise of our democracy rests on their shoulders as well.  All the relaxing of regulations (that has been gong on for a long time) that now allow Murdoch and his ilk to own every medium and multiple media outlets in every medium has effectively destroyed independent journalism, an integral part of our democracy, in this country. I don't know that citizens would be any more concerned if they actually knew what was going on but at least there should be reporting on such matters. We can't continue with a press that only acts as White house press agents rather than press corps.  We can't only have partisan news outlets.  Event the NYT is no longer trustworthy.  Obama doesn't seem to want to recognize or talk about what Bush&co have done and how we undo all the illegal things they've done or what we will learn once they are gone.  Obama's campaign acts as though we've just gone through some trying times but it will all be alright, Does he have a clue?  If he wants to be about hope and change why can't his strategy be a truer reflection of what is wrong, how it is the government that has deceived and violated the American people for 8 years.  Why can't he ask us to have hope that he can return our country to a democracy and prevent the constitution and the American people from being continually violated.  Why can't he apologize to us for the corruption and/or impotency of the government over the past 8 years, for a government that sat back and watched the American people being violated day after day while remaining silent and not coming to our aid?   Is nobody ever going to take responsibility for this government?  Is it always going to fall on the shoulders of the American people?  And why are people so willing to accept they are part of the problem, even though he is suggesting they are also part of the solution he at the same time is making us part of the problem, we're not!

And his whole message of change without saying what he wants to change so that people can project on him whatever they want.  The idea that it is about liking the man and not the substance of what he says, excuse me but isn't that what got bush elected?  Wasn't it because he was a man people could relate to, a regular guy, a guy you wanted to have a beer with and it didn't matter what he was saying.  But truth be told he was saying things that offered a lot of the hope and promise Obama is offering.  Anyway, there's more but I'll stop now.

I am so glad I found your diary and all the readers who have offered great comments in response to your post.  Like you I am taking away from this experience the understanding and knowledge that there are others who feel the same way, we are not alone.  And I am eternally grateful to you and your post and readers of this blog for offering a place for someone like Linfar and myself to come and be among friends.

Linfar, as many others have noted, I admire your humanity, strength and grace.  You are quite remarkable.  Please know that I too am holding you in my heart and thinking of you and your mother and I hope to get to know you and many other readers of this blog better in the coming weeks and months. THANKS!


by jwh186 2008-02-20 09:11AM | 0 recs


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