Can you comment at some point on how well the GOP might do to re-gain its hold on to the Latino vote by emphasizing (again) fundamentalist Christian views, issues such as abortion, prayer in schools, vouchers for private christian schools?
Isn't the situation for the GOP now in reference to the Latino population of being stuck between two explosive wedge issues, christian moral issues verses immigration?
And if they attempt to play off of the moral issues set will it work, or have they reached some sort of inflexion point with this group of voters?
Mission statement for this set of Yahoo discussion Groups.
The naming convention shown below should tell you a lot about what the mission statement of the groups will be.
This is not about political theory. This is not about imposing your political views on others and it is not about an effort to convince people about the value of one political ideology over another beyond some simple common-ground views which will be in accordance with our existing political history and its evolution (not its current de-evolution).
Some of the basic tenants;
1) The United States is very much headed in the wrong direction at this point, and this is the current majority view within our entire polity.
2) Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame for this state of affairs, and we will enumerate on this topic in our discussions. But the more important purpose is to identify and act on a set of solutions.
3) We need to re-establish the electoral balance in our political system, which has been destroyed by a number of factors, among them;
a) the complete FAILURE of the Democratic Party to act as an opposition party
b) the complete DEMISE of the Republican Party and its take over by greed driven, corrupt, hypocritical, pseudo-religious, lying politicians
c) the dangerous situation we have now with the Patriot Act II, which negates much of the vital first Ten Amendments to the US Constitution and the resulting fact that we are moving ever closer to martial law and a dictatorship.
Electoral balance is an absolute necessity in our political system and this balance no longer exists.
4) The complete failure of the "Fourth Estate" in the form of our still dominant, but decaying corporate media, which is a major part of the problem. The corporate media now lies all of the time and carries the lies and propaganda for this totally lying corrupt inept GW Bush administration, believing that PERSONAL profit, greed and compliance with pure evil are higher goals than delivering the truth to the American public, especially when they are likely to get another special delivery ANTHRAX LETTER in the mail care of a still remarkably un-finable compromised insider at the biological weapons department at Fort Detrick. The White House Press Core have been reduced to nothing more than a stenography pool.
CHANGE MUST START WITH OURSELVES AS INDIVIDUALS
Our political system is broken, and there is a way to fix it but WE, as individuals will have to change direction and habits to make change happen at the level of our collective society.
What personal habits will we have to change?
Consider this, that one definition of insanity is when a person keeps doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting the very next time that a different outcome will occur.
INSANITY CLEARLY ABOUNDS IN THE US NATIONAL POLITICAL SYSTEM
By that definition, the majority of people who now support BOTH the Democratic and Republican Parties ARE INSANE. Politically speaking, tens of millions of people in the United States are insane.
GW Bush could disembowel an infant live on cable TV tonight, and eat its heart 2 inches away from the camera as its blood gushes out and 70% of the self identifying Republicans viewing that event will still say that GW Bush is a good Christian. They are just incapable of seeing this degenerate for what he actually is.
In fact, he is not a good Christian at all.
GW Bush is an inveterate liar who has little understanding or respect for the US Constitution of the United States and much less respect and consideration for the people of the United States, their well being, or their birthright to a functioning democracy and a stable progressive economy and to normal concepts of humane civil order. He wants to replace all that with a dictatorship, convenient for the rapists and thieves of our national wealth by the corrupt and degenerate elite he is a part of, and he has been very successful in bringing about that goal.
GW Bush believes it is HIS BIRTHRIGHT to take the office of the presidency of the US by ANY means and to take our laws and our rights and our collective wealth in the form of our national budget and treasury, our jobs, our incomes, our retirements and to do with them whatever he wants to do. No matter what the consequences of his acts are he clearly has no intention of relenting on these evil goals, in fact GW Bush is clearly unable to understand the moral and the practical consequences of his acts on other people. He is perfectly willing to send young people to a war based on lies, and for the benefit of his crony capitalist partners, for friends of his family clan, for their business operation the Carlyle Group, for the benefit of the owners and top level corporate managers of the Halliburton Corporation, for the benefit of the Saudi Royal family who have propped him up thru every personal failure he created in his own life as a businessman.
Today's example, Bush can say in the most self righteous tones that his administration will follow and obey the law and that he wants the leaker of the name of a covert CIA agent within his administration to be held to account for the illegal act, when all along it was he himself who authorized the leak and engineered the outing deliberately as a personal vendetta against his political enemies who by the way wanted the American public to know the truth about the matter, and in fact we know further that Bush was advised by the intelligence agencies that his intended pronouncement was not supported by the facts, yet Bush spoke those words in public because they suited his current goals. And what does our corporate media talk about in turn, not the hypocrisy by GW Bush, not the obvious lying by GW Bush, not the immorality of the act by GW Bush, not the breaking of his oath of office by GW Bush, but instead the corporate media merely in turn act as a mouthpiece for the Bush administration's Attorney General Gonzales who states over and over again that as president in war time nothing that GW Bush does can possibly be held as against the law if he does so under a claim of protecting the US from its war time enemies. Nothing, not interment camps, not the permanent suspension of habeas corpus, not indefinite imprisonment of helpless prisoners turned over by their rivaling clan or a jealous neighbor, not the torture of prisoners, not the rendering of prisoners to foreign agencies for the purpose of torture we would find objectionable, nothing, NO THING that GW Bush may decide to do can be held to be against the law. Not lying, or miss-representations by any degree or measure by GW Bush can be legally held as an act against the law according to Gonzales. And who are these enemies? Well they are undefined other than any one possibly, any citizen including US citizens who might possibly help or aid or side with someone GW Bush personally decides is an enemy is therefore an enemy by definition by GW Bush.
So GW Bush you see is ABOVE the law and cannot be held accountable under any circumstances or for any act that he may commit by authority given to him by congress under the enactment of the Patriot Act.
The NIGHTMARE has just begun.
GW Bush is planning an even larger and more consequential war against Iran today and this has been in the works from the beginning of his administration. He does not care how many die, he does not understand the consequences of filling the air with depleted uranium, he does not comprehend the likely reaction of 1.3 Billion Moslems around the world to such insanity. He believes that he is forever personally above their reach.
Bush you know talks directly to God and is guided, as he told us, by his heavenly fathers advice. Bush believes that no one has else, no other president in fact has or will have his courage and his insight into the affairs of nations and how to settle them. Do you not know that he himself has said this? Do you understand that these thoughts are his core beliefs and no one within his circle can question them, nor may they question the policy decisions Bush believes follows from them.
Bush is surrounded by nothing but YES MEN. Will the likes of Condoleezza Rice counter Bush's incurious and uninformed views and his personally prejudiced ideas with the more reasonable and researched programs of a functional Department of State about the consequential decision involving war today against Iran? He has already proven to us that he will not listen and will not be advised by anyone who disagrees with his views or anyone who attempts to inform him of the deleterious consequences. Those who disagree will be fired, they will be the subject of a smear campaign aided by the corporate media, they will be denied justice by jurists and attorneys loyal to GW Bush.
Just as insane are people who self identify as Democrats who now, today are making the argument that the way to restore sanity in our political system is to vote for Democrats. Why is this insane? Because the Democratic Caucus have failed utterly and entirely as an opposition party. Even as a minority for example, they could have voted en mass against the Patriot Act, but they did not and by doing so they created the impression in the minds of the public that the there was nothing to be greatly concerned about in the Patriot Act, while in true point of fact, the Patriot Act IS the entree to martial law and dictatorship within the United States, and I will back this up with more details about the Patriot Act. By the way did you know that Senators were not permitted to see the full drafts of the Patriot Act II in complete enough form to know its contents in a reasonable time prior to voting on it? This was the strategy engaged in by the White House and the Republican leadership, in part, the other part was to daily assure the public thru the lying corporate media that the Patriot Act would assuredly pass congress. Do you see the hand of Reich's Marshal Rove in this strategy? But this is not all the Democrats have been guilty of, they voted for and promoted the draconian Bankruptcy Bill written by the credit card industry, they voted for the Drug Care Benefit for Medicare Bill written by the pharmaceutical industry, They voted to authorize GW Bush to have the final and independent authority to carry out an endless war of aggression based on OBVIOUS LIES and deliberate propaganda, eschewing their own congressional responsibility and mandate to determine the bounds of war carried on by this nation. Democrats voted for US Supreme Court nominees, Alito and Roberts who clearly will further the interests of both corporations and the top political elites at the expense of a sane and reasonable view of our birthright as citizens and a balance of power within the governors and governed in our society. This is just the top level of treachery engaged in by Democratic Senators, individuals like Biden, Feinstein, Lieberman and many other have put their personal well being, including personal financial profits to say nothing of their own political security above the interests of the national citizenry. Even Senator Byrd voted for Patriot Act II and you can not tell me that vote did not negate his entire senatorial career and every principle he said he stood for.
Millions of people wrote to Democratic office holders and begged them not to vote for these GW Bush policies and nominees. We faxed them, we wrote messages into their web contact pages, we called them over and over again and they in turn told us our opinion did not matter and they were going for the personal profit, they were going to cave into undemocratic pressures to conform, they were going to spit in our faces and that it is just too bad we have no where else to turn, so they can do whatever they want in office.
Moreover, anyone who has taken responsibility of keeping themselves reasonably informed and anyone who is not a dupe of their propaganda knows now that the attacks of 9/11/01 were a self inflicted national wound designed to give the Bush administration the leverage desired by the PNAC Neocons to carry out wars of aggression in the middle east, or wherever else they desired.
What Democratic party office holder has had the personal integrity to speak one word of this forbidden but well known truth in public?
Not one of them.
I SAY NO MORE TO THIS !!!!!
I will not vote for one more compromised lying Democrat any more than I would ever vote for a Republican of the type we have seen infest government for the past twenty years.
We have a choice. We can give up and let them do to us whatever they will to do, and that will include a planned mass attack on the population of the US via a phony and internally created "avian flu virus" or some other covertly designed bio attack, by our degenerate elite class and its agents who we know are willing and able to kill millions, even their own families, if ordered to do so. Watch their agents in helicopters drop incendiaries on the WTC towers as people leaped out of them to their deaths in an attempt to avoid death by immolation, in 9/11 Eyewitness. Yes, their agents are willing and able to kill us by the millions.
OR we can ALL change our personal direction and our personal habits and bring this worsening nightmare to an end.
Why have you started so many groups, and why a group for Republicans, Communists, etc.?
At this point in time the fine points of political philosophy do not matter. To succeed in this effort we are all going to have to change our political self concepts and our political self identity. We are going to need every non-self deluded individual to opt for the sort of change I have been defining here. This will of necessity include people who have previously self identified as Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Natural Law Party, etc., etc.
None of these existing political identifications can bring about the change needed in our national political life and most of all, the ranks of the independents and the disaffected continues to grow, and understandably so, with now more than 30% completely opting out of political involvement and with as many self identifying as one type of 3rd party participant rather than a Republican or Democrat.
This will not be about political theory mongering, or endless debates by Libertarians verses Greens as to what theorem of personal property ownership is the correct one now and for all future times to fully settle those issues as they see them.
NO! this is about something more fundamental, more essential, more immediate and more concrete.
We must rid ourselves of the corrupt and dysfunctional political monstrosity that now infests the offices of government - the two headed corporate monster party called Democrats and Republicans and WE MUST RID OURSELVES OF THE INSANITY WITHIN OURSELVES THAT ALLOWS THIS CORRUPT DESTRUCTIVE POLITICAL DISORDER TO CONTINUE.
To re-establish political health in this nation we must re-establish a constructive political balance. In order to do this we must create a new united coalition political party, form the fractionalized 3rd party groups and the disaffected who are currently not aligned politically.
Ultimately the remnants of today's Democratic and Republican parties will unite in name as they have now in practice.
And those two elements, a united coalition party, by one name or another, and the DINO/RINO party will form the countervailing active political interests which will be needed to re-establish political balance in the affairs of our nation.
"The conventional wisdom is that, by making Democrats look radical, Feingold has shot his party in the foot, if not the head."
No one except someone who believes the daily lies and spin of the corporate mass deception media could believe that censuring this lying, election stealing, war-mongering, graft-loving, incompetent dunce is a radical political response.
Conventional wisdom is not the root of the problem, Stocholm syndrom within the "conventional" wing of the democratic party is the problem.
It must smell pretty bad when your head is stuck so far up your butt and been there so long you can't even remember what daylight looks like and what real common sense among non-cowards would have you do.
I want to propose a specific set of projects that will help us move in this direction.
We (the greater internet community) need to gather information live as it happens at the time of the 2006 and 2008 elections. We can not rely on the corporate media to honestly cover elections any more.
We need live video/audio feeds from poling sites, community meeting sites and rallies.
We need those feeds to go to multiple internet host sites and we need to make those streams available to internet clients of those web sites.
This technology effort can start with political events leading up to the election.
Some entity like Air America which already has some of this technology in place might be persuaded to set the downstream side of this up for 2nd tier clients (web host sites) on a fee basis.
blogs in themselves and even well funded internet oriented political action groups are not a sufficient form of social organization to fight the battle that we are now facing.
We need a broader sense of community and we need to involve and activate more people.
Unless we do that we are going to start every political fight or goal as we did this one, feeling that were are coming from so far behind the eight ball that it is hopeless and that will always lead to the sort of mix of defeatism and too little too late effort we saw this time, even if some of us were really energized and engaged as much as we could be in this specific effort.
Its time to admit that the political whores in office just take our blog money and occassionally visit with us, but when it matters to us they just ignore us becasue we can't energize enough people to really scare them.
They stole TV - the live broadcast medium from us. Its owned and dominated of course by corporations who favor the right and feel its good for business to keep us dumb and distracted.
So we need internet TV, our own channels our own content. We need live multi-media point to point multicasting. If we could do that when for example a protest or happening event occurred, even if the corporate media did not cover it, we would be aware of it and we would all get that sort of self and community re-enforcing positive feedback that would help us to better understand that we are not in the minority and we are not alone and isolated and just out of step with the greater public will. Which is precisely the message that they deliberately engineer to dominate and demoralize us on a daily basis. If our greater (potential) community felt we were coming from a position of greater strength and numbers we would be more successful more often.
We need a means of channeling live contemporaneous multimedia content point to point between everyone on the internet any time any place. Blogs and text based media will not energize the greater community of people who agree with our views and goals. And we can set up internet based services (lets say server based) that will send us content types that we would subscribe to. Further, content of those pre-selected types that is popular at any moment could appear in a preset number of windows on the pc screen, and we could switch between them and have the option to record the media files for playback later.
I work in telecommunications and networking and I know that this is now technically possible even if it not not immediately feasible on a wide scale basis as it will have to be. But in any case some small pieces of the technology puzzle are still missing or not as robust as we need and at this precise moment not exactly a piece of cake to make happen.
I wrote about this more than a year ago in this forum and earlier elsewhere.
I said then that it is time to admit that blogs and text based media have their limits and we need to move beyond them to engage enough people to see our greater goals realized.
It does not help us to inflict the damage repeatedly on ourselves, and it does not help when you try to apply logic to a situation to find the solution when its logic based on a false premise. That can only lead to a false conclusion.
If we want to stop losing elections we have to stop them from employing their main electoral strategy; stealing elections by 1000 and 1 methods.
1) Media Release: January 16, 2005 by the National Election Data Archive
There is significant controversy about whether the 2004 presidential election was conducted fairly and its votes counted correctly. According to results of the major national election exit poll conducted for the National Election Pool by Edison/Mitofsky (E/M), Kerry won Ohio's pivotal vote, though the official tally gave the state, and thus the presidency, to Bush. The conduct of Ohio's election was formally debated by Congress in January 2005.
The National Election Data Archive (NEDA) is the first mathematical team to release a valid scientific analysis of the precinct-level 2004 Ohio presidential exit poll data "The Gun is Smoking: 2004 Ohio Precinct-Level Exit Poll Data Show Virtually Irrefutable Evidence of Vote Miscount" available at http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/OH/Ohio-Exit-Polls-2004.pdf. NEDA's analysis provides significant evidence of an outcome-altering vote miscount.
The analysis is based on the most accurate statistical method yet devised for determining whether exit poll error, random variations, or vote count manipulation cause the discrepancies between exit polls and official vote tallies. This analysis method was made public recently by NEDA in "Vote Miscounts or Exit Poll Error? New Mathematical Function for Analyzing Exit Poll Discrepancy" available at http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit-Poll-Analysis.pdf
Exit Polls were conducted in 49 of Ohio's 11,360 precincts. At least 40% of Ohio's polled precincts show statistically significant differences between Kerry's exit poll percent and official vote count percent. 35% of these exit polls overestimated the Kerry official vote share. This is five times the number expected. Three of the most glaring examples are:
In E/M precinct 27, with an estimated 100 respondents, Kerry's official vote count was 29% less than his exit poll share, creating a 58% difference between Kerry and Bush exit poll and official vote margins. There is less than a one in 867,205,500 chance of this occurring due to chance.
In E/M precinct 25, with an estimated 62 respondents, Kerry's official vote count was 28% less than his exit poll share, creating a 56% difference between Kerry and Bush exit poll and official vote margins. There is less than a one in 234,800 chance of this occurring due to chance.
In E/M precinct 48, with an estimated 100 respondents, Kerry's official vote was 16% less than his exit poll share, creating a 32% difference between Kerry and Bush exit poll and official vote margins. There is less than a one in 17,800 chance of this occurring due to chance.
There are also two precincts where the Bush official vote count is significantly less than the Bush exit poll share. The number of significant discrepancies and the pattern of Ohio's discrepancy shown in the NEDA report provide strong support for the conclusion that vote count errors converted a Kerry win to a Bush win.
New electronic voting equipment without voter verified paper ballots, implemented under the 2002 Help America Vote Act, makes it easier for a small number of people to manipulate vote counts and nearly impossible to independently audit vote count accuracy. Virtually every county in America today publicly reports its vote counts in a way that hides evidence of miscounts. This allows those with access (whether authorized or not) to manipulate or make mistakes in vote counting with negligible possibility of detection.
Without accurate elections, America is not a democracy. NEDA urges the media to publicize the results of this report and its recommendations, in order to return to the American people their right to determine the country's leaders.
The National Election Data Archive is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization whose mission is to scientifically investigate the accuracy of elections through the creation and analysis of a database containing precinct-level vote-type election data for the entire United States. By making detailed election data publicly available NEDA furthers its goal of providing the means for independent analysts to evaluate the accuracy of vote counts in time to ensure that properly elected candidates are sworn into office following future elections.
For further information contact:
Kathy Dopp, MS Mathematics, NEDA, President firstname.lastname@example.org 435-658-4657 or Ron Baiman, PhD, Economics, NEDA, Vice President, email@example.com
"In his new book renowned critic and political commentator Mark Crispin Miller argues that it wasn't moral values that swung the election-it was theft. While the greatest body of evidence comes from the key state of Ohio-where the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee found an extraordinary onslaught of Republican-engineered vote suppression, election-day irregularities, old-fashioned intimidation tactics, and illegal counting procedures-similar practices (and occasionally worse ones) were applied in Florida, Oregon, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and even New York. A huge array of anomalies, improper practices, and blatant violations of the law all, by a truly remarkable coincidence, happened to swing in the Bush ticket's favor.
This pattern-not one overwhelming fraud but thousands of little ones-is, in Miller's view, the new Republican electoral strategy."
We have to stop pretending to ourselves its still business as usual and if only can only arrange the deck chairs on the USS electoral Titanic the right way next time the election outcome will not find us sinking into another GOP-stolen whirlpool.
Another uncomfortable fact for you people with your heads in the sand.
9/11 was an inside job. The WTC buildings were brought down with multiple massive demolition explosions, the two aircraft that hit the Pentagon simultaneously were a Global Hawk and a missile from the Pentagon automated defense system, and the aircraft over Pennsylvania was shot down.
Do you really think this situation we are in requries nothing more than a little fine tuning of our electoral message and crossing our fingers and hoping that the independent voter will have a clue next time?
Bushco planned to steal votes in Ohio, PA., and Florida no matter what Kerry did.
Keery didn't lose, Bush stole the 2004 election.
If you think bush won you have to believe that people in Ohio in Democratic districts with 80 - 90 % Democratic registration voted instead for Bush at 80% rates, after standing in the rain for 10 hours.