The tax protests

Yes, there's a number of loonies and extremists and bigots in the crowd. That's why I remain a Democrat.

Yes, the leaders of this "movement" are phonies or worse. Where were they when their congress and their president borrowed and spent and ignored all the warnings of danger ahead? Again, that's why I remain a Democrat.

But . . .

they do make a few good points, which Democrats ignore at their peril.

Spending is too high. Trillion dollar deficits are unsustainable. Eventually, we will need to increases taxes, increase borrowing or print money, and each of those options eventually kills your economy. Bush was wrong with his crazy out of control borrow and spend policies. We need to stop being wrong, not be wrong for good purposes.

Taxes are unfair and corrupt and too high. Basically, if you have a powerful trade organization, and you hire a good lobbyist (maybe the Gephardt/Hastert team?), your activity gets favorable tax treatment. If not, don't expect any favors. Case in point - - we bail out the financial sector, and propose to extend the business loss carryback to 5 years, but will do nothing in the tax code to address the huge loses in individual self funded retirement savings accounts, by credit or deduction. Because, unless you're a Buffett or a Walton or a Soros, individuals don't have their own lobbyists.  Taxes are too high, and the burden unfairly carried.

Obama remains personally popular, but his policies, less so. There was a good reason why his campaign focused on "hope" and "change" and avoided details. (Yes, the details were posted on web pages no one but the political junkies ever read, but in the debates? in the commercials? I don't recall discussion of trillion+ dollar deficits and bail outs and corporate takeovers, other than to oppose them.)

Remember, Ford was beloved and popular, and then his policies caught up with him, and he lost. Carter was beloved and popular, and events caught up with him, and he lost.

I assume the average voter looks at the tax protesters with their hand written signs and tea bag earrings and thinks, "they're a little off . . . but they're not all wrong." The Obama camp mocks the tax protesters as a strategy. It's probably a good strategy. But, as with all protests, ultimately you ignore legitimate grievance at your peril.

Tags: Economy, tax protests (all tags)



That's why I remain a Democrat.

We took a poll.

It wasn't even close.

Want to hear the results?

Take a guess, bet you can figure it out.....

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 05:06AM | 0 recs
LOL - -
remember when respectful dissent and protest, and consideration of minority views, were valued in the reality based community?  
Democrats are in power because of Rovian triumphalism.  I say we avoid triumphalism.
Mock the protesters if you want - - but then coopt their legitimate grievances.
Taxes are too high.
Deficits are too high.
Address those issues.
by kosnomore 2009-04-16 05:20AM | 0 recs
Yup., you sure are a democrat....

Taxes are NOT neccesarily too high, keep in mind, the tax code has been rendered ineffective for a large group, major corporations, the super rich...

Hell Hedge fund managers pay a much smaller % then I do...That is what is unfair?

The middle class are the ones being shafted, if you want the story....Here's a book you should read, and, it's written by a ex WSJ Tax Reporter, so maybe that is Far Right enough for you: egal

And, spending too much? Deficits too high?

Strange, you seem like most Republicans, this is a funny time to suddenly get religion.

Keep in mind, one of the reason Obama's deficit looks so high is, he didn't play hide the money with the war costs, like Bush did.

First, we need to spend EFFECTIVELY, this comment is the equivalent of "Government is too big"...

No, it's not EFFECTIVE for it's size.

But, since we ALL love our favorite Economists, please link me one that thinks we should cut government spending right now.

Shit, KNM, do you read other diaries besides yours?

Obama is usually getting ripped on these boards for spending TOO LITTLE in the Stimulus package.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 07:31AM | 0 recs
Actually, I sound like Bill Clinton and Al Gore an

Howard Dean.  They all contained spending, produced surpluses and led us to what history would say was our economic apex to date.  It was Bush's borrow and spend reversal of this strategy that got us in the jam we're in.  Why not do what worked rather than what didn't?

P.S. - And, let's not be like the Republicans - - let's say the same things, when we're in charge or not.

by kosnomore 2009-04-16 07:41AM | 0 recs
You doof

That was then, this was now.

Please link where ANY of those 3 men NOW say we should cut Gov spending in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s...

Really this is NOT debatable.

Even McCain's chief economist thinks we should spend like crazy right now.

Remember McCain? You voted for him?

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 07:47AM | 0 recs
"You doof" ??

Post a comment in this diary without a curse or an insult or a scatological reference, or just leave - - no one forces you to read my diaries. Comments of that nature reflect poorly on this site, and on you.

by kosnomore 2009-04-16 07:56AM | 0 recs
Reflect poorly on this site

your diaries do enough of that already.

by DTOzone 2009-04-16 07:56AM | 0 recs
That is not an insult

it is a statement of fact.

You are a doof.

And, who suddenly made YOU the language censor at MyDD.

You break all the other rules. Clean up your own house before talking 'bout mine.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 08:53AM | 0 recs
Let's summarize kosnomore's political


Obama supports it = bad.

The end.

And with diarists like him, MyDD moves further into irrelevancy and joke status.

by DTOzone 2009-04-16 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Let's summarize kosnomore's political

The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small!

by Jay R 2009-04-16 09:43AM | 0 recs
It's so crowded

No one comes here anymore.

Any Yogi Berra quote deserves an encore!

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: LOL - -

The American people don't believe TAXES ARE TOO HIGH.  Who are you to speak FOR THEM, ALL OF US? lup-more-americans-say-income-taxes-are- okay

 a new Gallup Poll finds that 48 percent of Americans say the amount of income tax they pay is "about right," edging out those that complain the rate is too high.

The pollster's annual Tax Day survey notes a radical departure in this year's report -- taxpayers have the most rosy view of paying their fair share of government revenue since 1956.

The heavy-handedly organized "protests" fly in the face of the reality that the American people as a whole are now MUCH LESS likely to be feeling angry about taxes as they were at any time since 1957.  The TAX ANGER does not exist outside of catch-all nutty right-wingers who need SOMETHING, ANYTHING to really around.

It is indeed less prevalent now with Americans than it has ever been.  Your assertions are therefore false as they pertain to all Americans, have some merit when it comes to right wingers who are angry at the rest of America for not just complying with their version of how things should be.  The latter viewpoint is not shared by most Americans, certainly not by the progressive community, and has therefore no valid place on a progressive blog.    

by devilrays 2009-04-16 07:32AM | 0 recs
Utterly, tragically wrong

"Eventually, we will need to increases taxes, increase borrowing or print money, and each of those options eventually kills your economy."

"Eventually kills your economy" is a meaningless phrase when the economy was already so close to crumbling.  That's like saying "we can't use a defibrillator on this guy having a heart attack because electricity will eventually harm him!"

If you think the right thing for the economy is to limit government spending in a recession/depression instead of using the government's economic power to promote growth and stimulate the economy, you're going to find yourself very lonely for a "Democrat."

by Jay R 2009-04-16 05:18AM | 0 recs
Do you think the tax code is fair?
Do you not think it favors corporate wealth and power?
Do you not think it reflects corrupt corporate infuuence?
Do you not think individuals need more aid, but the lion's share is going to the institutions which caused the mess?
NEVER dismiss out of hand all your opponents' arguments.  Thats what Bush did, isn't it?
by kosnomore 2009-04-16 05:24AM | 0 recs
Of course it does

which is why taxes need to be RAISED, not LOWERED you moron.

by DTOzone 2009-04-16 07:51AM | 0 recs
Again READ this book

anyone who thinks that the tax code is unfair... egal

Yup, it's unfair...because it's been rendered useless due to 40 years of influence by the rich and the powerful.

I really don't agonize thinking my taxes are too high.

I am PISSED so many folks are getting away with paying little or NO taxes because the system has been perverted.

And, let's ask KNM about off-shore tax havens for Corporations?

Please link where Newt and Dick Armey are bleating about that?

Come on, they don't care about the tax code.

They are the ones that perverted it.

It's just the only Red Meat they have left.

Gay Marriage and Abortion, not really working.

Guns? Hell, the right wing is loading up on so many guns and ammo, the police force is calling this a crisis cause THEY are under-stocked.

Taxes is it, so the drag a BS issue out, some mythical tax increase coming from Obama....

Hell, the only ones who will be effected by the increase were the organizers of this faux event?

The footsoldiers are getting tax RELIEF from Obama.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-16 08:02AM | 0 recs

by Jay R 2009-04-16 09:44AM | 0 recs
Europe does ok

with much higher tax rates than ours.  You don't seem to really know what you're talking about with this "kill the economy" teabagger talking point.

by JJE 2009-04-16 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

Geez, Karl Rove has almost the exact same line of thinking in the WSJ today.

Yesterday was Tax Day, and it was marked by large numbers of Americans turning out for an estimated 2,000 tea parties across the country. This movement is significant.

In 1978, California voters enacted Prop. 13 in reaction to steep property taxes. That marked the start of a tax-cutting movement that culminated in Ronald Reagan slashing high national income taxes in the 1980s. Now Americans are reacting to runaway government spending that they were not told about before last year's election, and which Americans are growing to resent.

Derided by elitists as phony, the tea-party movement is spontaneous, decentralized, frequently amateurish and sometimes shrill. If it has a father it is CNBC's Rick Santelli, who called for holding a tea party in Chicago on July 4. Yesterday's gatherings were made up of people who may never meet again (there's no central collection point for email addresses). But the concerns driving people to tea parties are real, growing and powerful. Politicians ignore them at their peril.

by Charles Lemos 2009-04-16 05:52AM | 0 recs
Charles, when we were out of power - -
we complained of Bush's failure to balance the budget, his crazy spending, and his rejection of pay as you go.  Now that we're in power, it seems like the folks in congress just tossed each other's play books across the aisle.
The Republicans are being phonies by now complaining of deficits.  But, when did we adopt "deficits don't matter" or "deficits don't count"?
And, I didn't read that Rove thing.  But, why knee jerk reject an idea out of hand because of who said it?  That's what the Republicans always do, no?
I think I'm being consistent - - I was proud that Clinton balanced the budget, I agreed with Gore's plan to pay off the national debt with our surpluses, and I opposed Bush's crazy reversal of fiscal responsibility and crazy deficits - - those were all Democratic positions, right?
by kosnomore 2009-04-16 07:51AM | 0 recs
No, we did not

complain about his lack of balancing the budget, his crazy spending and his rejection of pay as you go, totally untrue.

We rejected what he spent the money on.

It's great the Gore wanted to pay off the national debt with our surpluses...we don't have surpluses now, we have deficit, we also have a terrible healthcare system that needs to be fixed, with money, and an economy that needs to be stimuluted. In case you've forgotten, Clinton and Gore were slammed by liberal Democrats for what they did and wanted to do with their budgets. Liberals wanted them to spend that money on healthcare and energy.

Take your crazy somewhere else, we're all full up here.

by DTOzone 2009-04-16 07:56AM | 0 recs
Deficits matter

but in a crisis they take a backseat to encouraging economic grouth.  FDR followed your advice in 1936 and the recovery was set back.  Nowhere did Obama say "Deficits now, deficits forever."  Deficits now, get out of the crisis, then balance the budget.  Deficit spending in a downturn is standard Keynesianism that is the foundation of non-far-right Democratic economic policy.

by JJE 2009-04-16 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Charles, when we were out of power - -

Were you asleep the whole time?  It wasn't that he didn't balance the budget, it's that he exponentially increased the deficit in order to give a stupid give-away to the wealthiest at the expense of the rest of us.

You really haven't had a clue for years, have you?  That's a shame, and not a surprise.

by Jay R 2009-04-16 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

oh yes, you are so full of respectful dissent. you are a spewer of rightwing crap and think you should be applauded for dissenting. it's actually getting embarrassing.

by Todd Beeton 2009-04-16 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

tea bagger apologia is the last straw for KNM. rename him MyDDNoMore.

by Todd Beeton 2009-04-16 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests


by fogiv 2009-04-16 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

I thought it felt smarter in here all of a sudden...

by Jay R 2009-04-16 09:54AM | 0 recs
TODD=Navy Seal & Kosnomore =Pirate


by wellinformed 2009-04-16 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

By all means, we should increase taxes.  It is a moral obligation to pay one's taxes for the services that this country provides.

by rfahey22 2009-04-16 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The tax protests

by canadian gal 2009-04-16 04:22PM | 0 recs


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