Some very scary polling for Obama and Democrats

There are some very scary new polls out there for Obama and Democrats.  The first one was published by Public Policy Polling(PPP) in the state of Colorado.  It gives Obama only a 49% approval rating and a 45% disapproval rating.  This is a state that Obama won by nine points in November, two points more Democratic than the national average. PP_Release_CO_421.pdf

Another poll was done by Rasmussen(who clearly leans right)and shows Obama with just a 54% approval rating and a 45% disapproval rating.  They also show that 51% of the public has a favorable view toward the Republican "tea parties". ontent/politics/obama_administration/oba ma_approval_index_history

Folks, if we lose control of the House and a lot of state legislatures in 2010, we are likely NOT getting them back for a LONG, LONG time.  We need to start bringing the plants inside now and start by making sure we leave few competitive Democratic House seats open.  Patrick Murphy(PA-08), Joe Sestak(PA-07), Chris Murphy(CT-05), Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin(SD-AL), and Gabby Giffords(AZ-08) all need to stay put in this climate because Democrats would lose their seats and they would likely lose their bids for statewide office.  

There is a good chance that we will lose both the Virginia and New Jersey governors offices, which will push the Democratic party into a rightful state of panic.  Panic is good because it will be a wake up call for Democrats that they need to prepare for a hurricane.  Things are changing out there.  We are damn lucky that we held NY-20, because if the election were held today, we would have lost it big.  If we lose big in 2010, its OVER for us.  Finished, done, and another generation in the wilderness.  

Tags: Democrats, obama, Rasmussen (all tags)




You're seriously quoting Rasmussen?

We are damn lucky that we held NY-20, because if the election were held today, we would have lost it big.

Where's the proof of this? Rasmussen has had Obama's poll numbers dropping for months.


by DTOzone 2009-04-21 11:25AM | 0 recs
Its the healthcare...


by architek 2009-04-21 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Its the healthcare...

Of course it is. We aren't insensitive.

by QTG 2009-04-21 12:37PM | 0 recs
pundit's fallacy


by JJE 2009-04-22 09:36AM | 0 recs
Republicans allowed to drive debate

The Republicans are on the offensive, they are defining the issues, and they are driving the debate.

I think many of us have felt the Republicans were so simple and stupid and that their arguements were so childish and boring that they couldn't be effective.  

They are out there making hay with Obama's weak save 100 million stunt, with the DHS thing (the media is going happily along not explaining the report or highlighting actual groups or people that are dangerous), teabagging, Chavez, even the Pirate incident.

Obama needs to go back on the defensive.   Put the Republicans back on their heels.   We out here need to take the Republicans more seriously, and intelligently refute their nonsense.

by RichardFlatts 2009-04-21 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans allowed to drive debate


by QTG 2009-04-21 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans

It took Republicans 6 years under Bush to get to a point where their arrogance was enough to do them in.   I think some on the left have arrived at that point in less than 100 days

If you don't take the Republicans and the rightwing noise machine seriously then we are doomed for a short stay in power.

by RichardFlatts 2009-04-22 08:25AM | 0 recs
There's not much we can do about it

We can only scream so loud. It's not like we can get the Rachel Maddows of the world to forcefully takeover the airwaves.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: There's not much we can do about it

Nothing succeeds like success. So far, despite non-stop Obama bashing on FOX and Right Wing radio, Obama's numbers remain high - perhaps indicating that the Republicans have peaked in the Bush range of 20-30 percent except in areas of the country where Meth is still the drug of choice.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

by QTG 2009-04-22 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: There's not much we can do about it

Rachel Maddow is the last person we need leading the charge.   Let her preach to the choir.  

... And can we get Ed Shultz off tv.  His stupidy is monumental.    He should have stayed over on the right where his intelligence would have at least been average.

by RichardFlatts 2009-04-22 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans allowed to drive debate

Who gives a fuck about Chavez or the Pirate incident?  Did the media bash Bush when 9/11 happened?  I think not.  Yeah, its a real liberal media.  

by Kent 2009-04-21 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans allowed to drive debate

Obama needs to go back on the defensive. Put the Republicans back on their heels.

Uhh, Coach?  You want to push back from defense?  Mmmmkay.

by fogiv 2009-04-21 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans

for the most part lack military experience, hence the mix-up.

by QTG 2009-04-21 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans

Of course I meant to say offense but whatever.

My point is that the Republicans have been pretty effective in winning the newscycles over the past couple of weeks.

If you watch just a little of the evening news, read some of the USA Today, or check out other coporate news outlets, on line, in print, or on tv, the Republicans have been effective.   That is also were a huge number of regular Americans get their news.

So it is all fun and games here, but I think the Republicans are not being taken seriously enough ahead of a midterm election, that is history is a guide, should favor them.

by RichardFlatts 2009-04-22 08:28AM | 0 recs
It helps to have the media on your side

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Republicans allowed to drive debate

they are defining the issues

Oh really? Then they're doin' a heckuva job, there, Flatty.

by X Stryker 2009-04-22 05:27AM | 0 recs
Life is like ultimate frisbee

The most recent Gallup has Obama at 63-28

That said, the absolute worst thing you can do is to underestimate your rival.  Republicans look pretty stupid right now, but don't let that fool us.

Ever play on an ultimate frisbee team that's short-handed?  You almost always win.  The other team stops trying.

by the mollusk 2009-04-21 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Life is like ultimate frisbee


by QTG 2009-04-21 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Life is like ultimate frisbee

what, the gallup link didn't work?

by the mollusk 2009-04-21 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Life is like ultimate frisbee

hidden by zedd! I've arrived!

by QTG 2009-04-22 03:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Life is like ultimate frisbee

Zedd's invisible.

by Jess81 2009-04-22 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Life is like ultimate frisbee

so maybe it was more of an embrace?

by the mollusk 2009-04-22 08:19AM | 0 recs
This 'diary' must be what

Republicans think of as HOPE.

Dream on, losers. You're 99% irrelevant. Buy guns. Hunker down. The Commies are coming!!!!!

by QTG 2009-04-21 12:34PM | 0 recs
yeah, Dems are in horrible shape

The funniest thing about your diary is that TODAY we would have lost the NY20 race. That was less than a month ago. So, what exactly happened between then and today? The tea parties, really? Give me a break.

by Todd Beeton 2009-04-21 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary polling for Obama

If people take the time to look up "UpstateDem" at Daily Kos, who interestingly posted an identical diary, and then look at the history of that poster, it would lend a certain amount of perspective to this diary.  UpstateDem is a very concerned individual.

by rfahey22 2009-04-21 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary polling for Obama

Yes, the phrase "pee pee pants" comes to mind.

by fogiv 2009-04-21 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary polling for Obama

I was thinking "Eeyore".

by Khun David 2009-04-21 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

 I love the part when somebody identifies a sock-puppet or whatever you call these fellas who do the KNM shuffle. It's like finding Easter eggs!!

by QTG 2009-04-21 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

I rarely suggest a trip to Crazy-Land, but this one is worth the mucking about.  

Far Right/I'M RIGHT!!! has dished out a mighty meta-diary.  His view of MyDD, their view of MyDD... it's just got to be seen to be believed.

Just a taste:

I guess the only way to explain my support for Hillary, choice and traditional democratic values, and be insulting at that same time, is to call me a woman.  You know, it's a girl, so ignore it!

Finally, Charles Lemos himself pipes up with, "The Corner? Isn't that part of the National Review?"

Get it?   Now, according to a mydd front pager, I'm a woman writer for National Review online (because, like second graders playing the game of telephone, Lemos is told "alegrescorner" and hears "National Review's The Corner").

So much for "reality based".  They really have checked in their brains for the duration.

The comments are actually a lot more fun.

by January 20 2009-04-21 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

Oh my.  They're bonkers.

by fogiv 2009-04-21 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

Not sure if this is a coincidence, but....

Last post by KNM was:

1) "You doof" ?? [none / 0] Replies: 2
posted by kosnomore on 04/16/2009 11:56:10 AM EST
attached to The tax protests

First downrate by zedd was:

30) Of course it does [1.66], by DTOzone, Rated: 0
Posted on 04/16/2009 11:51:33 AM EST
Rated on 04/16/2009 04:46:56 PM EST

My money is on zedd = KNM

by QTG 2009-04-22 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

No, Zedd is Knowvox.

Zedd/Knowvox is a


with a

2) vendetta against me and

3) a hair trigger on the 0 button and a

4) propensity for constant name changes and is

5) highly critical of Israel and tends to

6) primarily make statements via the rating system rather than posting.

Put all those items together and it really narrows it down.  Especially item 5: that's not KNM.

by Jess81 2009-04-22 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

Yes on the uprate strategy.

Knowvox it is. (I must miss KNM in some sick masochistic way)

by QTG 2009-04-22 08:06AM | 0 recs
If you really miss...

You know where to find him now.  Him, HE, the man, that guy, himself, MR KNM, manly man-guy, the male, Mr. Masculine.  That should make it clear I'm tossing out sexist insults by even coming close to calling 'it a girl'.  Let me make it even more clear, I believe that KNM needs to wear two pair of pants just to make sure HIS mighty masculine, manly balls don't just burst out!

Anyway, back to finding our dear old krazy pal, it's pretty easy, he pretty much owns the rec list nowadays  (with just a little room left for cute li'l Caro.)

by January 20 2009-04-22 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Kent, if that be your name....

Oh that reminds me - could you go and uprate me everytime Zedd downrates me?  She's on a mission.

I do the same thing - I think that's why she's so angry.

by Jess81 2009-04-22 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary pollin... not

Look, the issue is that there is no serious opposition. It's actually about as absolute opportune a time as ever for a 3rd party on the left because the right/Republicans/Conservatives have been left in the dust by a majority.

by Jerome Armstrong 2009-04-21 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary pollin... not

Why would there be a 3rd party on the left when 95% of progressives approve of Obama?  The few that aren't could just join Nader's gang or the Green party.  

by devilrays 2009-04-21 08:55PM | 0 recs

why would we want to be in opposition?

by DTOzone 2009-04-21 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary pollin... not

please, please, please, no more Ralph Naders.

by the mollusk 2009-04-21 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Some very scary pollin... not

There already is a third party on the left.

by Jess81 2009-04-22 12:48AM | 0 recs

Gotta love these right-wingers deluding themselves because they see a Rasmussen poll while conveniently ignoring every other poll (Gallup, Pew, Cook/RT, etc.)

Read it and weep, rightie-weenies: other/president_obama_job_approval-1044. html

Even WITH the gross outlier provided by Rasmussen the aggregate spread is over 30%.  Try again when Gallup shows it narrower than 60% to 30%.

by devilrays 2009-04-21 06:18PM | 0 recs
Check out Race42008

They use Rasmussen polls to show that Obama is falling in popularity while omiting every other poll.  

by Kent 2009-04-21 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Check out Race42008

Apply some common sense.  Who has been the public face of the Republican party?  A month ago it was Rush Limbaugh.  3 weeks ago it was Michelle Bachman. Two weeks ago it was Glenn Beck. Now a poet from the past has grabbed top stage, the one guy more unpopular than Bush has ever been:  Dick Cheney.  You can just hear the American people groan disgustedly in front of their tubes whenever he shows his mug.  And, he is showing his mug aplenty these days.

Now, given all THAT, which poll do YOU think speaks more to the truth?  Rasmussen incredibly showing a tightening poll picture and "good news" for Republicans or Gallup, which is showing a growing approval rate for Obama and a worsening picture for Republicans?   Come on, this isn't that hard if you have just one ounce of realism in you.  

by devilrays 2009-04-21 08:36PM | 0 recs
Why the F should we check out Race42008

Holy Bejebus, Kent, stay away from there.

You already seem predisposed to panic attacks, hanging in that pit of paranoia is not good for such a worry-wort as you.

Those people are grasping at straws, they are looking for Nano-particles.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-21 10:29PM | 0 recs
I wouldn't worry yet...

If the Repugs had something to offer, then maybe...but they don't.

However, in 2 years things could be different and that is why I believe Congress/Obama has to move NOW on healthcare reform, getting rid of DADT/push through Gay legislation and ensure that all anti-women legislation that Bush put in (ie stem, abortion, etc) is overturned NOW.....he/we may not get another opportunity in 2010....remember what Bill went through...

by nikkid 2009-04-21 06:56PM | 0 recs
When I read Bob Swern's diaries, I am worried..

Kent's comments always make me chuckle.

For months, he has been selling this

"OMG, it's all over for Obama, the tide has turned, the public is against him...based on...

His concern that the tide has turned and the public is against him....

Its air tight, it's's coming to get our guns!

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-21 08:04PM | 0 recs

Just to put one more nail into the coffin of this angst that the Republican renaissance is going to wash over us: News/idUKTRE53K5CS20090421

President Barack Obama is enjoying dramatically high approval ratings among Cuban Americans, the majority of whom favor his efforts to ease the U.S. trade embargo against their communist-ruled homeland, a new poll showed this week.
Sixty-seven percent of participants in the poll, which underscores a dramatic shift in a community with close ties to the Republican Party, gave Democrat Obama a favorable rating while only 20 percent said they had an unfavorable opinion of the young president.

The poll released on Monday was conducted by Bendixen & Associates, a Miami-based public opinion research and consulting firm that has been studying the Cuban American community for more than 25 years.

A dramatic shift in the Cuban-American community away from Republicans and towards Democrats changes everything in Florida.  If Florida goes for Democrats we don't have to wring our hands over Colorado.  

by devilrays 2009-04-21 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Kent

If Kent isn't UpstateDem, he should be mighty pissed off at him now, since UD over on Daily Kos posted an identically written diary... 722872/-Some-very-scary-polling-for-Obam a-and-Democrats-

by Khun David 2009-04-21 10:41PM | 0 recs
He said, no she said

The only thing worse than a bad troll diary is all of the cabal of trying to decipher who the troll really is and what they posted on DKos or yo mamma's bra.

Maybe Kent is a little too concerned, so reply with facts and why you think the diary is bonkers.

by the mollusk 2009-04-22 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: very scary

rec'd for the freewheeling comments.

by Jess81 2009-04-22 08:47AM | 0 recs
Polls don't scare me

I don't know about scary polling but I can attest to Obama fatigue even among some of his most strident supporters among my friends. This has nothing to do with his personal approval rating but his approval when it comes to dealing with TARP, Wall Street bailout in the face of rising credit card APR, billions going to companies and banks without accountability, the ineffectual whining of Tim Geithner, the lack of credibility of Larry Summers and finally his mixed message on torture. Oh did someone hear that he has back-pedaled on NAFTA as well?

There is something to governing by consensus, but to go out of his way to placate the same people who are actively undermining the Democratic agenda is a slap to the millions who worked for him and voted for him and given him the largest majority in congress and senate in recent times. What he is doing is slowly but surely squandering his goodwill among progressive and Democratic base.

by tarheel74 2009-04-22 09:48AM | 0 recs
I don't see that at all

as a matter of fact, concering torture, I've seen some of his most strident supports I know angry at him for actually releasing the memos to, in their words, "satisfy the left"

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 10:02AM | 0 recs
I agree a bit

This is a mixed blessing is my take, because it DOES give the Republicans a chance to go on offense.

Seriously, you have a admin official backing UP Cheney, that good intel came out of this...

You have Cheney NOW able to enter the converstation, claiming GOOD intel came out of this and daring them to release MORE..

Which, of course, the Intel community will FREAK at, so Cheney has a free shot.

I KNOW this is the main focus of the blogosphere, but seriously, it is NOT in the top five of most of the people that put Obama in office.

you will catch no truly big fish.

Not Alberto, Not Addington, Not Yoo, certainly NOT Cheney or Bush...

Just not gonna happen.

Because, If you can somehow drag them into court, this will take YEARS, and the country will see it as a distraction.

Sorry, the further this goes, unless we go to a Truth Commission and move away from the idea of actual war tribunals, this is a net loss for the country and the Democratic party.

Would I love to see Bibee impeached, Yoo thrown out his teaching job, Alberto disbarred.

Yup; But, I think you would see the right wing man up, and all the money needed to fight this tooth and nail for the next 3 years minimum.

And, I know that folks will disagree, but even that fight is a net win for the right.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-22 10:16AM | 0 recs
Here's the problem

Blair's argument really seemed to be; "Yeah, we got some valuable information out of it. So? We could've gotten that information without doing this."

I think we need to be open to the possibility that torture did, sometimes, work. Does that make it right? no. It seems obvious though that the freakout over Blair's remarks shows that we don't think we can win this argument with the public on moral grounds...i.e. that torture is immoral, that's why she shouldn't do it regardless.

And if we can't win the argument on moral grounds, we can't win the argument period.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 10:26AM | 0 recs
I DO have that worry.....

I'm not sure we CAN win that argument on moral grounds in this country.

Not if people are willing to admit what state of mind the country was in at 9/11?

Does that make it right? Nope.

Does it let CIA agents off the hook if it turns out this was more about Sadism then effect information gathering?

I am really in a quandry about his.

My gut says, take these guys down.

My head says, If I am Newt or Armey, I am OK with this fight.

If I can drag Obama back to Sept 11 and spend a lot of time there, I can distract, get the country wondering WHY is this such a focus, when I am losing my job, my house, etc..

I like the suggestion that Obama has given himself distance by saying "Ok, I have said I, meaning the WH, doesn't see this as a priority but if the justice department goes there...

But, STILL something about this rattles me, I think too many on the left have revenge on their minds, and too many think we can actually bring down the big dogs...And, I am not sure we can.

I just don't know, but something about it worries me about the net cost to us of making this all that the left seems to be focused on.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-22 10:42AM | 0 recs
The other night

I brought this up to one of my friends who worked tirelessly on the campaign and he was on the verge of tears, asking me if we were really going "force the President to fall on the sword" for this."

It's ironic that I see so many on the blogs say they want prosecutions and they worked so hard to elect Obama, when I get told by some that they worked too hard to elect Obama to see his presidency be bogged down by prosecutions of the past.

There's going to come a point where we might realize the country just isn't with us on this and if they're not, it's not going to matter who we prosecute and put in jail because the voters will just make sure they elect torture supporters from now on.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Polls don't scare me

The question then becomes why release these memos if he does not intend to do anything about it? Is this some grand posturing? But since we know the existence of the memos, which suggest that the law of this country has been broken and then do nothing about it does this not make him, this congress and the people who elected him complicit in aiding and abetting a criminal act? Most people I talked with think torture is wrong and that we committed torture is wrong. The question is does he want to let justice take its course or does he want to cave in because of Republican push-back and propaganda. If the latter's the case then we can kiss universal health care and financial reform goodbye, because the push-back that will come during those legislations will be at different and more strident level.

by tarheel74 2009-04-22 11:31AM | 0 recs
The answer would be transparancy

there's an easy argument for transparancy, there's not such an easy argument for prosecution. Do you serously think not prosecuting would make healthcare and financial reform HARDER? You think the GOP is just going to roll over in the face of prosecutions and allow our agenda to waltz through Congress. That's about as naive as beliving bombing Mogadishu will stop the pirates.

The Republicans would like nothing more than to make the Obama Presidency about prosecuting the past. This way in 2010 they can stand up and argue "What has he done for you except reopen old wounds."

He's not caving to Republican push back. Caving would imply he had the strong support of the public on prosecution, which he doesn't.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The answer would be transparancy

Once you let the cat out of the bag you can't stuff it back in. If he did release the memos then he should let justice take its course. Public opinion is more than a few rabble rousers, most Americans are fair-minded and oppose torture and would not mind justice taking its course. This mixed message of being against torture but not for prosecuting the torturers or the people who authorized it comes of as political posturing. That is something that the public does not like.

by tarheel74 2009-04-22 12:57PM | 0 recs
That's ridiculous

The public is hardly paying attention to the subject to begin with. You're talking about the opinions of some people on blogs.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: That's ridiculous

make up your mind, once you say that the public is against an investigation and now you say the public are hardly paying attention. I think you are trying too hard to apologize for the tardy attitude of this administration when it comes to enforcing the law vis-a-vis torture.

by tarheel74 2009-04-22 06:21PM | 0 recs


by DTOzone 2009-04-22 07:24PM | 0 recs
I disagree

What he is doing is slowly but surely squandering his goodwill among progressive and Democratic base.

I haven't quite seen that yet....most of the people I know that supported him are still on board. But, I have older, and not as hard ideologue friends then many on this blog.

But I think generically that statment works only if you consider the intelligensia, the blog world, the left Pundits, Salon, Kos, etc the Democratic base.

I don't; I think that is the vocal minority, the ideologues.

The ones would burn down the Capital for a shot at thinking they can bring Cheney up on Torture Charges..

While, MOST of the Democrats who voted for Obama are still on board, and mostly focused on the economy, IF they still have a job, where is their housing prices going..

Yes, the circular firing squad is arming up, David Sorota is in his typical lather?

That is not representative of the BASE of people that voted Obama into office in my opinion.

by WashStateBlue 2009-04-22 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I disagree
Sirota be damned, I never lied that fool. But his (or rather Summer and Geithner's) handling of the TARP and bail-out mess has not won many supporters. There has been a strong case made for the government to step in Swedish style which Obama's people side-stepped for a no strings attached bail-out initially which let the banks run amok. Now they are doing damage control. Same with torture. There was a serious breach of US law, but the first impulse was to send Blair to justify torture and Rahm to give a blanket immunity. Now after the fact we are seeing damage control and back-pedaling.
While one can make a more nuanced case for or against the way the admin handled the bail-out, the torture story is black and white. There is the law, someone broke the law and they have to be held accountable in a court of law, if we still believe that this is a nation of laws.
by tarheel74 2009-04-22 01:03PM | 0 recs
Where the hell do you live?

I come from one of the bluest parts of the country and almost all the criticism I hear of the President is that he's TOO liberal. I haven't heard any real world arguments for Swedish-style bank takeovers among anyone outside of Krugman and the blogs.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Where the hell do you live?

Maybe you hangout with the wrong people, what can I say? Most people I meet in Central Pennsylvania have bail-out fatigue, they don't like Wall Street taking our money and screwing us at the same time, they rather have the government axe the current management and take over till the economy gets better. But even if one can reason with them about that, people are pissed off with torture. At work everyone was appalled that US has committed torture, yes some conservatives defend it and some liberal sissies like to play nice when the law is broken. But the law is the law and if we are to remain a nation of laws then they have to be enforced unless Obama decides to grant a proactive pardon to the torturers and to all the people who authorized torture.

by tarheel74 2009-04-22 06:18PM | 0 recs
You act like we've somehow

recently stopped being a nation of laws.

by DTOzone 2009-04-22 07:26PM | 0 recs
Wait till the summer of 2010

Generally, presidents have a honeymoon period when they first take office. Almost always, their popularity falls over time until there is a game changing event. In this case, Obama took office when the economy was in free fall. Thus, as the economy continues to contract, his popularity ratings will go down. If the economy turns around by early next year, the Republicans will be in deep trouble (like being endangered as a minority party for the next generation); so I wouldn't worry about poll numbers until next year.

by Zzyzzy 2009-04-22 10:12AM | 0 recs


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