On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just says he is.

The path to Democratic Party Unity has one track.  It leads to serious party reform to try to undo as much of the Party destruction that has happened the last year as the leadership plowed further and further away from the basic Party values.  And the rest is clear in this open letter to Hillary written by an Independent, just the sort of Independent the Democratic Party needs to attract and have "unity" with. She titled it:

                   On to Denver!!!!

I am 44 years old, and was never much interested in politics. So, you know, when all this primary stuff started a year ago, I really didn't have much interest in any of the candidates specifically, only "let's get anyone else in there other than Bush". But, I started watching the debates and reading up on all the candidates.  In a perfect, ideal world, we wouldn't be voting for a person because of their "Party" and friends, we would be voting for that individual who has a track record of crossing those very lines and trying to get the important things we all want in life: health, wealth, harmony and happiness, regardless of, gasp, party affiliation. Quite quickly, I realized Senator Clinton was head and shoulders above Obama and the others, on every issue, on judgment, character and certainly experience. She frankly blew me away with her command of the issues. I found myself picking the person that has a track record of what I am looking for. That person is Senator Clinton. She has worked hard and diligently for all Americans, and spent years (35) building strong relationships because she has a passionate vision of what America can be. She became MY candidate. "Hill-R-We", became my mantra.

When I read that the "party leaders were tired" of the Clinton campaign bringing up the FL & MI votes for the past few weeks, I thought: well, E-X-C-U-S-E ME! I am tired of not having a say in a Presidential election, I am tired of not having my vote count, I am tired of no insurance, I am tired of little business in a struggling economy, and I am REALLY tired of some out-of-touch, well-paid, Washington fatcats deciding they know more than their constituents! The straw that broke this voter's back was the way the DNC mishandled the FL and MI votes. That is NOT democracy, NOT the values of the Democratic Party and certainly NOT my values! The media has mounted the most biased, blatant one-sided campaign for Obama that frankly reeks of more than just voter suppression. What happened to journalistic integrity?

What happened to objective reporting and let the voters decide? The misogynistic, gender bias that exists in this country is deplorable (from pundits, party leaders, the media) and if Senator Clinton gives in to the DNC and "follows the lead" they want her to take with Obama even after she is winning the popular vote, it would send a message that it is Ok to trash talk a leading woman politician, to belittle her accomplishments as if she were "just someone's wife", and this would send a message to every man out there to pile it on, to ignore and expect every woman to "get in line" like a good girl, for the betterment of society. Even if that very woman is the most accomplished candidate out there, or the most qualified professional for the job. What kind of message is that to send to our mothers, sisters, daughters, and sons?

This primary race has revealed a very flawed, twisted system and I for one will happily go back to my long-term Independent status soon, if Senator Clinton is not the nominee. I would love nothing more than for Hillary to run as an Independent candidate with 18+ million supporters strong. The Democratic Party is gone in my eyes. They have turned their back on the voters, on Senator Clinton, and on all that is good in this country. Manipulating the media, the voters, and the very "democratic" process itself has exposed our system as nothing better than any other country with flawed elections, tampering and propaganda. Shame on America, Shame on the Democrats.

Senator Clinton is the right choice, the ONLY choice for me in '08.

God Bless you Senator Clinton. You are an inspiration and a role model to all women and men who wanted to quit. Never give in, never give up. That is your message to us and my message to you.

by suzanne in FL at 6/3/2008 11:11:28 PM

If Unity and Party are to rise above Democratic Values, Party rules and Charter, candidates, delegates, voters and country, and it is to happen because one candidate declares that he should be president and convince almost half of the voters who voted, what are we?  If we let him pretend and cause the rest of the universe to pretend that most of the voters did not vote for the other candidate and it is OK for him to bully her out of the race 80 days early.

The status of presumptive nominee or having "clinched" or reached the magic number must be done without superdelegates.  If the primary season closed with neither candidate winning enough votes to clinch in pledged delegates, it goes to convention to determine which will be the nominee.

The reason: superdelegate votes are fungible until they are cast and recorded at convention.  Much has changed in the las 80 days and much will change in the next.  No one knows what the vote will be in August.  This is the way the rules are set up and why.

We have a candidate and some party leaders who want that candidate to be the nominee who are breaking the rules.  Nothing new.  Hillary would be correct to press her case with the supers and to spend the summer on a crusade to count the votes and try to correct the various instances during the primaries when the voters intentions did not receive fair reflection in the outcome.  Fair reflection of the voters' intention is the bedrock of the Democratic Party Charter.

Think about it. Why would a group of leaders or a candidate be so incredibly eager to shut down an election process?  Why be so obvious in violation of the party rules and why antagonize so many millions of voters?  Why suffer huge losses in party membership and donations?

Why show yourself to the American People as one who will not follow due process and run and win fair and square?  What would make any rank and file Democrat and the most necessary Reagan Democrat feel that they are values by this party?  Why is Obama that convinced that he can't win by the rules?

Dean, Reid and Pelosi say they will issue "stern letter" to superdelegates demanding that they chose a candidate and announce it at once.  These power handlers in the party are threatening superdelegates to decide three months early what their vote will be and reveal it publicly NOW.  But the precious party rules say that the ballot must be secret and has to be cast at the convention in a monitored, recorded proces.

People who have studied the rules and been involved in the pary processes for various conventions kknow this and also know that what the "leaders" are doing is really wrong.

The leader of the House and of the Senate have much say in the assignment of members to committees and in the scheduling of votes and bringing legislation to the floor.  Their "stern" requirements on members implies a threat about their jobs.

We have rules in this society about people in power over other people's jobs using that power to coerce people to abridge or submit their rights.  Yet we have allowed the creation of an environment where many things that society abhors are now expected and usual.

Something is very wrong.  We had better find out what it is before we present this man to the voter as our nominee.  We only have 80 days to put this right and clean up all the mess on the path.  We can fix all of Obama, and some of Dean and Pelosi and Reid's problems if we just have the superdelegates vote for Hillary in August and we can unify the party then.  It is grossly abusive to try to push people into "Unity" now with the contest not completed and 80 days to go until it is.  You may succeed in pushing Hillary's friends until they push Hillary out of the race.  But know this: it is wrong.  It is not the way Democrats are supposed to do things.  It will cost us enormously, one way or the other.  If millions of people who want Hillary to be their president have their way are thwarted, you might just be witnessing the dominance of the two party system fall away.

Catfish advises Hillary that she will be blamed and denounced no matter what she chooses.  You will blame her if Obama loses and blame her if he turns out to be a fraud.  Whatever she says will be wrong or insufficiently grovelling or supportive or unambiguous.

This man declared himself the "nominee of the Democratic Party" last night, even though he knew it was a lie.

 He knew that he could not count superdelegates for that declaration.  He knew that his list was inaccurate.  He knew that at least one of the new supers that he claimed to add last night was all evening emailing constituents of his decision to change to Hillary.  He knew that he had heard the same from others who had signed on long ago and since learned that they had made a terrible mistake.

He knew that Hillary was considered by the RULES to be a candidate in good standing for the nomination until the vote in August and yet he orchestrated a circus with media complicity to try and convince the rest of the Democrats and the country and the world that something else had happened and he had won.  It is a lie.  It will probably get him the nomination and be the excuse for the abuse on Hillary and on her supporters seen today on this site.

Just stating this fact of the Party rules has gotten so many troll ratings that I lost my trusted user status here today.

I heard my first convention on the kitchen radio when I was 6 and the votes were being counted for Truman.  I have not missed once since then.  But it looks like I'll be missing this one. If you push Hillary out when she is the one with most of the votes and the greatest ability to win in November, not to mention the only one qualified to be president, then there will be no point.

 No promise Obama makes Hillary to get her to yield up her delegates will be kept.  Everybody he has used to get ahead has eventually come to the same end.  Just PEEK UNDER the BUS!  Whatever gets into the platform will not bind him.  There will be no health care because he has already shown himself to be in the pocket of the industry, but we aren't allowed to show evidence and discuss that.  His energy plan will not help us and the oil, nuclear and coal interest he has catered to.  We know he had bills written entirely by lobbyists but we don't want to talk about it. We know he is a total novice at foreign policy and knows nothing about the military.  He hasn't studied the issues he would need to know about if he got elected.

But then he probably wouldn't be elected, so what's the problem?  The problem is that the Democratic Party leaders and values will have been sold out for nothing and our chance to finally look like we should be allowed to govern in the eyes of most voters will have passed, wasted.  We would have lost the best President the country would have had in my lifetime and maybe ever.

Dean, Pelosi, Reid and Obama and a lot of others are missing the big point.  What does Hillary want? She wants to be President.  She wants due process and she wants all of the people who agree with her to be respected and their votes valued.  And she wants the things she would do for her country to get done.

Once people start bullying other people they are not likely to notice that this is no way to win support, earn respect or convince voters you should be given power.  It is the perfect opposite.

We called the registrar today and the new cards are in the mail.  We want to belong to a party that believes in and lives by Democratic Values.  If this one doesn't want to be it, we will just have to build one that does.  We can't have a party that so disrespects the voters named "democratic", just because of the misdeeds and bad judgement of a few errant leaders.

This was always the People's Party.  It was the Republican Party that had these problems: putting party loyalty over what was good for the people and good for the country and demanding single voiced, good little soldiers of all its' people.

If we are ready to act like Democrats again, then we have two candidates and the race is on. We educate the media on how they got it wrong again, free the superdelegates from their coerced promises and give them back their secret vote in Denver. Senators Clinton and Obama spend the summer getting the message of democratic values, their plans for the country and voter registration around the country and they fix the irregularities from disputed caucuses and the Saturday night massacre so as much of the damage done to and by the Party is on the mend. They take time out to rest and interview Vice Presidential candidates and we meet in Denver for the votes, and then take on McCain.  It is how it is designed to work in this Party. We could let it.

(Note: Bully Gang don't dignify this diary or its sentiments or authors with your presence, your wisdom or your power.  In your lexicon, it is not worth your trouble and you could be spending the time on something you care about.)

Tags: abuse of process, bullying, clinton, coersion, Convention, dean, democratic values, Denver, harrassment, Hillary, nominee, Pelosi, Reid, rules.wool over their eyes again., superdelegates (all tags)



Enjoy Denver

I hear it is a fun place.  Unfortunately for you, Sen. Clinton will be standing with Sen. Obama helping him win the WH.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-04 04:30PM | 0 recs

Your McCain points. Do. Please Do. I hope you earn a Swatch.

by koliver 2008-06-04 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Enjoy...

Yes because as we all know the LAST thing McCain wants is for the Democrats' nomination contast to drag on to the convention.  

by gobacktotexas 2008-06-04 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Enjoy Denver

This diarist evidently doesn't read or listen to the news. Clinton is dropping out - See any network, any news source.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-04 05:34PM | 0 recs
Troll diary.

Here's Nick Pitera singing A Whole New World.

by Firewall 2008-06-04 04:31PM | 0 recs
An important question:

Is this snark?

by shermanfireflyace 2008-06-04 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

Stuff like this doesn't help. You must know that if we don't turn our cannons on McCain now, we will give up a sure thing. We will abide the old adage that Democrats can always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

by koliver 2008-06-04 04:32PM | 0 recs
Obama has pledges from enough supers...

...to rightfully call himself the presumptive nominee.

They could theoretically switch, but given that even Hillary Clinton seems to be acknowledging that that would be such an uphill battle as to make it not worth the effort, I doubt they will.

I'm sorry if Obama being the presumptive nominee bothers you, but virtually everyone in the Democratic Party - Obama and Clinton supporters alike - are acknowledging him as such.  

If your support of Hillary Clinton was so weak that you didn't believe in a single thing she believes in and so you vote for McCain, there's nothing we can do to stop you.

by mistersite 2008-06-04 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated.

Why settle it in Denver?  If Hillary can't get together the votes there, why not wait until the day before the election to decide who will be the nominee?   Hell, we've already given the gift of the last three months to McCain when the outcome was clear, why not give him the next five?

by gobacktotexas 2008-06-04 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated.

Well, why end in November?  If Barack should win, we should start an impeachment campaign.  Barack first, then every person in the line of constitutional succession until we get to Hillary Clinton!!!


by TL 2008-06-04 05:53PM | 0 recs

hillary is betting on Obama losing, or at least some of her supporters already are...


by 2501 2008-06-04 07:46PM | 0 recs

by turnover 2008-06-04 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:

"Bully Gang"

Wow.  Made of glass, are you?  The big bad people who disagree with you on the internet are really scary.

I respect those who support Senator Clinton because they believe her to be the better candidate.  I do not respect those who spend most of their time trying to justify to us why we're all out of our minds.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-04 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:

I agree...  I love the line that says, "I won't vote for Obama because his supporters on this blog are so mean!"  Or something similar.

The rough translation of that is, I'm not going to vote for Obama for reasons I am either unsure of or embarrassed to admit, so I will blame something innocuous for it such as an anonymous poster on an anonymous blog...  that'll work!

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-04 07:13PM | 0 recs
This diary

is about 3 hours late, or didn't you get the memo?  Hillary is concedings on Friday.

by XoFalconXo 2008-06-04 04:34PM | 0 recs
I'm guessing

there's a Star Trek convention in Denver at the same time and that is what this is about.  The diarist just forgot to tell everyone to bring a costume.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-04 04:38PM | 0 recs
I think that the heat has gone to your head

Do you want a banana?

by Kysen 2008-06-04 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: I think that the heat has gone to your head

ba-na-naaaaaa.  Mmm.  good.

by TL 2008-06-04 05:53PM | 0 recs


by kevin22262 2008-06-04 04:37PM | 0 recs
Rocky Mountain way.

High or out to pasture?

by fogiv 2008-06-04 04:39PM | 0 recs
Heaven only Knows-K-OS

by Student Guy 2008-06-04 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated.

Have fun in Denver.  The disclaimer not to criticize your inane opinion was a nice touch.

by rfahey22 2008-06-04 04:40PM | 0 recs
Where's the tip jar?

Thank you for quoting me. Good diary, reflects how many of us feel.

by catfish2 2008-06-04 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

Hope you get some downtime to hit the slopes!

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

Trolls don't post tip jars, they're cowards.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-06-04 05:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

By the time the convention happens you're going to need to talk about 300 or so delegates into committing political suicide by flipping and you're gonna need them to do it against Hillary's will as she will have conceded and endorsed Obama by the end of saturday. That's about 100 per month between now and then.  That's gonna be about 3.5 a day.  Wow!  You don't have any time to waste here among people dedicated to electing the democratic nominee. Better get out of the blogosphere and start working the phones.

Gee I'm gonna miss your comments.

by lockewasright 2008-06-04 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

Would that I could mojo you to the moon....

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-04 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

Sod covered donkey

(grassy ass)

One can't help but pick up some spanish living in Arizona.  ;-)

by lockewasright 2008-06-04 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

I wrote a paper in junior high about a trip I took to the Grand Canyon. I kept spelling burrow instead of burro for the animal we rode down on. My English teacher wrote on my paper that I failed because I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground.

by IowaMike 2008-06-04 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

That's awesome!!

by lockewasright 2008-06-04 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

Speaking of puns and foreign language:

Why do the french only eat one egg for breakfast?

Because one egg is un oeuf!

by lockewasright 2008-06-04 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

GREAT comment, locke....

by JoeW 2008-06-04 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Where's the tip jar?

S.C.D. to you as well.

by lockewasright 2008-06-04 07:27PM | 0 recs

i won't dignify this diary or its sentiments or authors with my presence, my wisdom or my power.  In my lexicon, it is not worth my trouble and i could be spending the time on something i care about.

thanks for the declaration!

something good did come out of this diary.

by citizendave 2008-06-04 05:07PM | 0 recs

and one more thing dryheat.

its not the heat; its the humility.

by citizendave 2008-06-04 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

Starting to feel a little lonely?  The democrats are moving on. Are you?

by Democrat in Chicago 2008-06-04 05:22PM | 0 recs
BREAKING: Obama wins

This just in: Obama won, even if FL and MI were counted full for Hillary, and Obama got not MI delegates.

The voters decided. Clinton lost.

by mattw 2008-06-04 05:44PM | 0 recs

Now that's what I call bitter and angry!

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-04 05:48PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

You. Are. Delusional.

Please get help!

by fightbull 2008-06-04 05:51PM | 0 recs
Oh, please

By your logic, every nominee ever has "bullied" their way to the title early.  This is how the system works.  Once a candidate has a clear majority and the other candidates have all dropped out, then we call that candidate the "presumptive nominee," and they start their general election campaign.  Happens every four years.  The only difference this year is that when, say, John Kerry clinched the nomination, every one of Howard Dean's supporters, and John Edwards, and Al Sharpton's, and everyone else's, were able to accept reality - ie. that the race was over.

Obama's calling himself the nominee because he won.  He's not bullying anyone into saying so.  He's not the nominee just according to him.  It's according to the Democratic Party, the Democratic voters, and, yes, even Hillary Clinton.

Sure, technically, the superdelegates can betray the will of the voters and switch their votes to Clinton, or Kucinich, or Lindsay Lohan.  But they're not going to.  Let me repeat that.  They're not going to.  They're not going to.

Obama won.  He didn't bully; he didn't cheat; he didn't try to change the rules in the middle of the game (although one candidate did).  He used that oldest of dirty tricks - he played by the rules, and got more votes, according to the system that everyone - including Hillary Clinton, including Harold Ickes and the rest of Clinton's team - agreed to adhere to before this all started.  He won.  Fair and square.  Clinton put up a good fight, and she ran a strong campaign, and got lots of support, but she lost.  Again, fair and square.

If you want to keep this delusional fight going, like one of those Japanese soldiers who thought WWII was still going on in 1970, well, you have my sympathy.  But the rest of us - people who care about the future of this country - are uniting behind the nominee, to defeat John McCain in November.  I hope you can put your bitterness behind you and do the same.

by schroeder 2008-06-04 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh, please

On March 9, 1974, Suzuki and Taniguchi met Onoda at a preappointed place and Major Taniguchi read the orders that stated all combat activity was to be ceased. Onoda was shocked and, at first, disbelieving. It took some time for the news to sink in.

   We really lost the war!

   Suddenly everything went black. A storm raged inside me. I felt like a fool. What had I been doing for all these years?

   Gradually the storm subsided, and for the first time I really understood: my thirty years as a guerrilla fighter for the Japanese army were abruptly finished. This was the end.
http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldwa rii/a/soldiersurr_2.htm

by politicsmatters 2008-06-04 05:59PM | 0 recs

So many words. So little sense.

by Rationalisto 2008-06-04 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

you lose, asshole.

by rabidnation 2008-06-04 06:15PM | 0 recs
Please... just stop.
The Democratic Party of the United States disagrees with your sentiment that this race isn't over...

Go to Denver if you wish. The Democrats - including Hillary Rodham Clinton - will be inside the Pepsi Center rallying around the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States, Barack Obama.

I hope you'll join the rest of us DEMOCRATS in supporting the candidate of OUR PARTY. If not, it's your loss.

by Obamaphile 2008-06-04 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Please... just stop.

Hillary will be appealing the rules committee.

Have fun


by rankles 2008-06-05 12:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Please... just stop.
by John in Chicago 2008-06-06 07:47AM | 0 recs
Reality Check.

1) She is endorsing Obama on Saturday.

2)  He never said he is the nominee.  He said he will be the nominee.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-06-04 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: He just says he is.

So do 1765.5 pledged delegates, and 410.5 Super delegates (so far)

Oddly, he only needed 2118 of those, and he got 2176 (so far)

So, he's not the ONLY one who says he is.

Sure, they could change their mind, but they haven't, and I guess until or unless they do, he is.  

Given that Clinton got spanked big time today for her lack of class.... I'm guessing no one is going to.

by Tommy Flanagan 2008-06-04 06:25PM | 0 recs
Once again, a reminder of how Al Gore felt

Just as W was selected by the Supreme Court, Senator Obama was designated to be the nominee by Super-Delegates. While we must live with it--and each follow our conscience from here--the fact remains that Senator Clinton received the most popular votes.

The surreal quality to this entire process is evident, especially when Obama voters have taken exception to this fact: "But you're counting Michigan and Florida....without them, Barack has the most votes". Well..yes...and if you had wings you could fly.

At some point (like November) media medioctries like Chris Mathews and the CNN Gang will come around and "discover" this. Should Obama loose as badly as many of us expect, these brilliant pundits will be exclaiming to each other on election night this Fall: "Keith, it's just so hard to imagine how the Democratic Party could be so out of touch with the American Voters in 2008!" And so on....just got to love the media.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-04 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Once again, a reminder of how Al Gore felt

Obama won the popular vote if one counts Florida.  The only tabulation which puts Clinton ahead is if you count the votes for one state where she was the only candidate on the ballot.

You're just clinging to an old talking point.  

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-06-04 06:56PM | 0 recs
That's not true

According to the DNC, who I hope you can agree is impartial, the most fair popular vote total includes FL but not MI, since Obama wasn't on the ballot there.  By this count, Obama leads by 158,155 votes.  Even if you include Puerto Rico, he still wins by 16,493 votes.  

The only way to believe that Clinton won the pop vote is to include a poisoned election where Obama wasn't on the ballot.  If he were, it would have been roughly a split and he still would have the popular vote.

This meme that Clinton won the most votes needs to die.  It's a lie and it undermines our candidate.

by semiquaver 2008-06-04 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

Obama was selected not elected.

by rankles 2008-06-05 12:22AM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true
Yep, he was selected by the voters.
by John in Chicago 2008-06-06 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

Not by the voters of Michigan.  Not by the hundred or so thousand voters whose delegates mysteriously got switched to Obama from Clinton, to whom they rightfully belonged.

by rankles 2008-06-07 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

He was selected by party insiders, not by the vote of the people/

Obama is running for Bush's third term.

by rankles 2008-06-09 11:21PM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

Selected by the DNC by way of deisenfranchisement.

by rankles 2008-06-09 11:38PM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

He was selected by nefarious means through disenfranchisement of voters in FL and MI.

If you like that kind of thing, maybe you should join the Republican party, as you're certainly not a Democrat.

by rankles 2008-06-10 01:56AM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true

He was selected by party bigwigs who disenfranchised millions of voters.

by rankles 2008-06-10 04:03AM | 0 recs
Facts are stubborn things.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-06-05 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Facts are stubborn things.

You too.

by rankles 2008-06-09 11:38PM | 0 recs
Anyone watch Doctor Who?

The diarist is "ghosting."  This kind of thing will start to fade away soon...

by jaywillie 2008-06-04 07:19PM | 0 recs
If what you say was true...

then why even have primaries and caucuses?  Why wouldn't we just have a convention?

Maybe this is the first election you've ever followed, but there is nothing near to what you suggest occurring.

by jaywillie 2008-06-04 07:21PM | 0 recs
Wanna smoke some Acapulco Gold?

Oh no thanks...this diary of yours proves that you definitely roll your own.

by PD1769 2008-06-04 08:41PM | 0 recs
So true...

he is NOT the nominee yet. The Supers haven't voted yet. I still hope she takes it to the Convention, but know she won't. She will pull our like Mitt Romney did. But at least the nomination wasn't stolen from him like it was from Hillary, because Iowa and New Hampshire had to ALWAYS be the same day. Not to mention, when you count ALL the places that had votes on ballots, Hillary had the most votes.

by DiamondJay 2008-06-04 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

Excellent dairy. I just read a post about having the Texas two step, part caucus, part primary, all over the country. Obama supporters will never get it. We have a democracy. A system where on candidate wins the majority of votes with million voting in a primary, and another candidate wins a caucus with a fraction of the votes - and the candidate with the least amount of votes wins the most delegates.

Also, lets not forget the massive fraud that went on in Texas. If that were a real election, monitored by the Carter foundation, it would have been declared illegal. What a joke.

by True Blue Dem 2008-06-04 09:59PM | 0 recs
Read you loud and clear, True Blue!

It it were a Republican race it would have been over on Super Tuesday Feb.5.  We have really done it as a Party.  How do we get to be the People's Party ever again?

by itsadryheat 2008-06-04 10:34PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

Please try and keep up - there is no evidence whatsoever for fraud in Texas, other than the Clinton's mess in El Paso.  If you have evidence let's see it.  Previous diaries trying to show fraud have been ripped to pieces by those that actually have direct knowledge, not just repeating TPs.  So go ahead - knock yourself out.

by interestedbystander 2008-06-04 11:02PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

I don't have time to fight you over the clear fraud that took place in Texas by Obama supporters. But I will say the obvious point, Obama lost by a large margin in the democratic primary, where working moms could vote, and won in a highly undemocratic and selective caucus system where only the ones with a lot of free time could vote. From this small, and unrepresentative, group of voters he was able to win more delegates. Try defending that one on the basis of democracy. Or is the DNC the land of the elite with extra time on their hands?

by True Blue Dem 2008-06-04 11:14PM | 0 recs
Re: On to Denver:Obama is not nominated. He just

No there was not clear fraud - did you read any of the diaries here in the last week? The claims were easily debunked.  There was confusion, people overwhelmed by numbers, but not fraud (except for Clinton supporters in El PAao, but that has now been resolved). The caucus system is what it is - there is no point arguing whether it is democratic or not - but you might want to tell Bill Clinton, who's 1992 campaign helped draft the Texas caucus rules.  You might also want to check the Texas primary exit polls, because without Operation Chaos, Obama would have beaten Hillary.  The difference is - nobody is whining and complaining about it - no rules were broken.

by interestedbystander 2008-06-05 03:42AM | 0 recs


Advertise Blogads