A Sad Day

I just wanted to say how depressing it is that on a site dedicated to electing Democrats it has four and half diaries on the rec list that either accuse, make fun of, slam or belittle our Democratic nominee.  On the other hand Hillary Clinton is represented in three of them, all in a positive way.

I'm all for talking about our differences in Obama's policy decisions, however some of you just can't wait for something controversial to pop up so you can diary it and get your fix on bashing the Democratic nominee.  Many of you "claim" that you will vote and support Obama, but I never see any positive statements about him from most of you, just the so-called "concerns".

Finally, I am fed up with Hillary would have done this or Hillary would have never done that...We will never know.  Hillary is an outstanding politician and I am thrilled she and her husband on our side but our nominee is Barack Obama.  If you want want to discuss issues on a mature and rational level, I'm all for it...But if you are just here to demean and degrade the nominee for your own personal satisfaction be prepared to be called out.

Tags: clinton, obama (all tags)



Re: A Sad Day

Yeah, see ya, MyDD.  It's a big Internet out there, and I can't help but wonder why I've wasted my time here.  

I know, I know, don't let the door hit my ass on the way out.

by gravypatrol 2008-07-04 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I'm thinking the same.  I haven't posted as much lately, because almost every time I log on the main diaries are either ones slamming Obama or comparing Obama to HRC.  I'm tired of defending him against the same swarth of people.  I'm trying to look at this election and primary in historical terms. An AA and a woman were two of three finalists and we have a chance to elect the first minority as POTUS in the history of the USA...Plus get out of Bush's clusterfuck...I'm excited about 2009, wish others were as well.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:32AM | 0 recs
Hootie, my diary was not really meant

as a "slam" against Obama -- I'm still supporting him. There are about 16,000 people on MyBO (most of them long-time Obama supporters) who are upset, too. And I admitted I was disappointed in Hillary's position on faith-based initiatives. I also said I couldn't be sure what she'd be doing right now, if she'd become the nominee. I was very critical of Obama, but I think legitimate criticism is a healthy thing. His FISA stance will not diminish my support.

by sricki 2008-07-04 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Hootie, my diary was not really meant

I too an just as critical of Hillary's position on faith based initiatives.  I think it is wrong to give tax dollars to institutions that aren't taxed themselves.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:38AM | 0 recs
Agreed 100%.

Not a pleasant thing, if you ask me.

by sricki 2008-07-04 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Hootie, my diary was not really meant

Should we not give tax dollars and grants to private universities for clinical research?

Should we not publicly fund institutions like cancer societies, HIV/AIDS relief organizations and food banks/homeless shelters?

All these organizations don't receive tax money but many do obtain public funding....

by Neglected Duty 2008-07-05 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Hootie, my diary was not really meant

No disrespect intended sricki...Many things people on this site raise as concerns are well-founded and deserve to be talked about.  I hope it can be done civilly and with an open-mind that's all...Oh and it would be nice to see us going after McCain and his positions as well.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:30PM | 0 recs
I will go after McCain again soon,

but tomorrow or Sunday I'll be writing a very positive pro-Obama diary. All my venting has made me feel much better. Certainly more optimistic.

by sricki 2008-07-04 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: I will go after McCain again soon,

Sorry if you took offense.  Absolutely none was intended toward you:)

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

But we need you Hootie. As you know it is so easy to take over this site. It is amazing how much time we spend defending our candidate on this site

by Politicalslave 2008-07-04 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Hootie, can you honestly say that Obama is turning out to be anything like the candidate you thought you were supporting prior to his becoming the presumptive nominee?

by phoenixdreamz 2008-07-05 07:16AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Honestly phoenix, yes. As in any other election year during the primary you shoot for your base which includes mostly Democrats because some of the states have closed primaries.  So basically your campaigning for the Democratic vote and in open primaries you change your campaigning to reach out to independents and moderate Repubs.  

It's a different story in the GE.  You have to move to the center in order to widen your net of possible voters and to lessen the turnout for your opponent.  Simply put it is a strategy necessary to win the POTUS.  Once he gets into office I believe he will shift back to the left and promote the liberal agenda.  I was under no false pretenses in the primary.

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

It would be more accurate to say that "politicians move to the right to win the general election." Hence you see Barack Obama moving right, and John McCain moving further right, both in an apparent attempt to appeal to the Republican base.

by souvarine 2008-07-05 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

...the McCain adviser said the campaign will target male and female blue-collar white Democrats, a group viewed by Republicans as Obama's soft spot.

"They already sense that [Obama] may be too liberal," the adviser added. "They tend to also agree with McCain on the war and on social issues and we'll have to satisfy them that McCain agrees with them on the economy."

"The bulk of the Democrats you would try to appeal to are not Harvard-educated lawyers who are feminists. They're working class Democrats that you have more of a shot at getting. And the core of that appeal is social conservatism, right to life, Second Amendment, and obviously national security," Donatelli said.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/030 8/9229_Page2.html

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Certain groups of Democrats are cross-pressured? Yeah, I'm aware of that, but Barack Obama will never out-Republican a Republican on those issues. Obama's problem with blue-collar voters is not that he is too liberal on social issues, it is that he is too conservative on economic issues.

Granted many of blue-collar voters are Democrats, so my "Republican base" crack was simplistic, but the point is that both Obama and McCain have chosen to fight on right-wing ground, and they are both moving to the right, not to the center.

by souvarine 2008-07-05 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

He may have to tread into the conservative territory in order to win the GE

Twenty-four percent (24%) of the nation's voters are both fiscally and socially conservative. Twenty percent (20%) are both fiscally and socially moderate. Fifteen percent (15%) of all voters are fiscally moderate and socially liberal. Two groups of voters each include 10% of the voting population--those who are fiscally conservative and socially moderate along with those who are fiscally moderate and socially conservative.* Nine percent (9%) are fiscally and socially liberal.*

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/daily_presidential_trackin g_poll

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

If you want to hang out with people who fall in line at the drop of a hat and are proud to parrot the li(n)es of their leadership, the GOP will be glad to welcome you.

Otherwise, get used to watching Barack Obama get shredded.  He's not God, you know.  He's not even good.

by SuperCameron 2008-07-04 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

He's not God, you know.

Really?  Really?  Darn, I guess we'll have to give the nomination to Hillary then.  That was the only reason why I was voting for him.

He's not even good.

But tell us how you really feel.

by Can I Haz Moar Snark 2008-07-04 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Have a great 4th of July!

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Super Cameron Which Democrats do you represent?

by Politicalslave 2008-07-05 01:16AM | 0 recs
It is difficult

to avoid the conclusion that though they claim otherwise, many Clinton supporters really want Obama to lose.

by fladem 2008-07-04 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: It is difficult

where did you pull that "conclusion" out of off?  Your behind?

most democrats have bitched and moaned over candidates for decades.  It is what proudly separates us from the republicans.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

The vocal minority are an annoying bunch of people.  You're best option, since they represent no one but themselves, is to just ignore them.

Believe me, no one else cares what they think, since there are so few, that's why they always make a fuss about nothing.

by RussTC3 2008-07-04 05:38PM | 0 recs
we are thin skinned, aren't we?

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:20AM | 0 recs
Re: we are thin skinned, aren't we?

Nope just fed up...

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

It's the Fourth of July, when the Founding Fathers chose to stand on principle and revolt, rather than make more political compromises with King George.

Surely today it is appropriate to hold our nominee to the principles this nation was founded on?

by souvarine 2008-07-04 10:31AM | 0 recs
hold our nominee to the principles

While giving McBush a free pass and carrying his dirty water.

by Beren 2008-07-04 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Yeah, I get it....After 139 FISA diaries I get it...Just thought today could be more of a "Let's Go Get 'Em Barack" day....

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

It is more than just FISA. Some of us are Democrats for a reason, you know.

by souvarine 2008-07-04 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I understand people have legitimate concerns about Obama as do I.  I never once thought he and I would have the exact same views on everything.  However, I still believe he is determined to chart a new course for our country including fixing the economy, creating more jobs, getting out of Iraq, pushing for universal healthcare, better schools, etc.  And I am excited about that especially having endured the last 7+ with Dubya...I'm also excited our country has taken a huge step in believing a woman and AA are qualified to lead our country, most underestimate what we, as a country, accomplished during the primary season.  Was their still sexism and racism? Hell yes, but just the mere fact that an AA and a woman were the last two standing on the Democratic side speaks volumes, at least it does to me.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

We're Democrats because we're not republicans. People spend more time bashing Obama than they bother with McCain, and they do it with far more vitriol. Our nominee is not "King George," nor do we need to "revolt" against our own party because of freaking FISA.

And when I see the same Obama-haters posting the same comments, the same diaries, and giving the same TRs to us, it makes it quite ridiculous to couch their actions in such sacred historical context. People without credibility aren't afforded such deference.

This is nothing more than a bunch of people trying turn our election into a grand game of I-told-you-so, the real facts or stakes be damned.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-07-04 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Interestingly, McCain is for the extension of Bush's administration, which thus far has been the closest thing to fascism in a long time, if not ever.  I think there are legitimate concerns by our posters but then the other "supporters" grasp on to that to implement repub attack plans about flip flops, destroying the constitution, general denigration of Obama, and whispers of not voting or supporting Obama.

July 4th, the date commemorating the revolt against a tyranical government and he we are bashing the guy who represents our desire to rid the country of our present day tyranny.

by KLRinLA 2008-07-04 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

and 412 whiny diaries sobbing about the rec list is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo meaningful and helpful...

by zerosumgame 2008-07-04 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Have a great 4th of July

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:56AM | 0 recs
I'll never forgive him for his comment that

abortion should be illegal for a woman who suffers from mental distress! He should ask Bill Frist to be his VP!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:22AM | 0 recs
Re: I'll never forgive him for his comment that

So go vote for McCain.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-05 04:01AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

yeah, all the while framing it as if Obama drafted this legislation.  Oddly, in all o fthese diaries I rarely see anyone pointing out all of the other House members who let this crap get to the Senate.  Barack will hopefully work with dodd and others to strip the immunity like he said.  I am willing to wait and see waht he does before I throw him and the election in the fire.  Let's also hold all the others accountable for their actions, who should bear most of the blame as oppossed to trashing Obama

On the other hand I have no problem with the FISA group on Obama's website talling him what they want.  BUt to condemn him before his vote and work to strip the immunity is a little extreme in my opinion.

by KLRinLA 2008-07-04 10:42AM | 0 recs
You're that naive to believe that he'll try to

cut out the tel com immunity out of the bill? It's a done deal, he's voting for it! His response was only to quiet the dissent that is being reported in the media and makes him look bad! The man has shown over and over again that he has no principles!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:24AM | 0 recs
Re: You're that naive to believe that he'll try to

Bullshit...you see what you want to see...

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Revolt against McCain or Bush not OUR candidate.

by Politicalslave 2008-07-05 01:07AM | 0 recs
a site dedicated to electing Democrats

Apparently not.

by Beren 2008-07-04 10:31AM | 0 recs
We're a nation of laws, not of men

You have to understand he is morphing from a Democrat into something else entirely. Do you understand this?

So this site is supposed to help elect Democrats.

by catfish2 2008-07-04 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

He's doing what he needs to do to garner votes and win the election.  Would you rather him go hardcore liberal in his campaigning and lose the election, just so we can say well he said everything we (liberals) wanted to hear too bad he lost but he can help us in the senate under a McCain presidency.

People don't understand he needs those swing voters (moderates) in order to win the GE.  He needs to win first before he can implement his agenda.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

no one is stating he has to go hardcore liberal - he should have just stated the way he was in the primaries.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

Tell me a politician who hasn't maneuvered to the center in the GE and won?  In order to win the GE you have to gravitate that way to widening your net, it is just strategy.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

lately, is more than just to the center - he has been going right of the center and crossing over into dangerous territory.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

"no one is stating he has to go hardcore liberal - he should have just stated the way he was in the primaries."

He did. You just weren't paying attention. Obama has never run as a hardcore liberal - he's always run as a pragmatist who works to find common ground across political lines in order to get good things done. I think that a lot of people must have tuned out whenever he talked about being post-partisan, but he really meant it.

by laird 2008-07-04 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

huh?  You quoted my comment and I know he didn't run as a hardcore lib.  He is a centrist.  

but now he is moving beyond being a centrist and that is running to the right and I am not pleased about it.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

Hootie, it's a Dem year.  There are 4 registered Dems for every 3 registered Repubs.  He can be the Dem candidate.

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-04 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: "Doing what he needs to do"...
Is that sort of like:
"will do anything to win "?
by susie 2008-07-04 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: "Doing what he needs to do"...

Yep, and I hope he does.  We NEED a Democrat in the WH.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:55PM | 0 recs
So it was OK for Obama to say that Clinton

would do anything to get the nomination but now there's no outrage when he does the same thing! Double standard anyone?

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:27AM | 0 recs
Re: So it was OK for Obama to say that Clinton

It's called politics...How about when she said he was elitist and out of touch or McCain has passed the threshold and Obama hasn't on being CIC.

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

"he is morphing from a Democrat into something else entirely"

No, he's been consistently a moderate who finds common ground with his 'opponents' in order to get good things done. If you thought that he was a purist who stood absolute stands on principle, you haven't been paying attention. I'd suggest reading his books, or perhaps reading  his speeches over the years.

While I wish that he was a bit more of a progressive, I'd certainly rather have the President be a Democrat that can engage in reasonable, intelligent discussions and can get things done than whatever you'd characterize McCain as.

by laird 2008-07-04 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

I swear, has the country gotten brainwashed or something?

Obama is ALREADY a moderate.  The country is not right of center.  Where Obama is going is right of center, as he is already in the f'ing center!!

god, some people are blind.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

"Where Obama is going is right of center"

I think that you missed the point of my post, which is that Obama hasn't changed. What he's saying now is the same as he was saying last year. He hasn't repositioned himself for the general election.

What's going on how is that Obama is being attacked now by people pursuing their own agendas. The right wing is attacking him for "flip-flops" because that attack has worked for them before. And the left wing is attacking him for being insufficiently liberal. With any luck the two cancel each other out, and Obama wins by appealing to the mainstream voters who don't like either extreme.

by laird 2008-07-04 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men

no, what Obama did was not talk about the issues in the way he is talking about them NOW.

he had a different "plan" then in the primaries OR he never once talked about them in detailed (such as the faith-based stuff).

if he had talked about the issues then as he does now, no way would he have gotten the so-called progressive voters to vote for him.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:15AM | 0 recs
Won't work because of his repeated attacks

on Clinton during the debates and on the campaign trail and now taking the very same stand as he critized her for. People are not stupid!  His non-stop ads paid by his millions are ingrained in people minds - they know he's flip flopping all over the place! He's coming across as a genuine hypocrite!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Won't work because of his repeated attacks

Man I bet you're a treat at work..

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:42AM | 0 recs
Do you understand this?

I understand this when I see and smell it.....

by Beren 2008-07-04 11:16AM | 0 recs


by catfish2 2008-07-04 11:20AM | 0 recs
uh huh.

So what was your reason for opposing him before?

by MeganLocke 2008-07-04 11:42AM | 0 recs
Just that he's ever-morphing

and you can't tell if he's Democrat Republican or what. In fact I don't think he knows. But mainly this bothers me in how he'll deal with foreign policy.

by catfish2 2008-07-04 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Just that he's ever-morphing

Which is why you're voting for McCain... we've got it already.  Let's defeat Barky!  Bam Bam is going down in flames!  Who's with me!!?!??

Anyone?  Buehler?

by thatpurplestuff 2008-07-04 12:01PM | 0 recs
I'll vote for the Democrat

as soon as I can figure out who that is. Is it Nader? McCain? Obama? Barr?

by catfish2 2008-07-04 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I'll vote for the Democrat

It's McCain...

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Just that he's ever-morphing

That's sort of the same right-wing frame that was used to take down Kerry.

Why do you hate Democratic candidates so much?

by Can I Haz Moar Snark 2008-07-04 12:29PM | 0 recs
I liked John Kerry, voted for him

canvassed for him.

by catfish2 2008-07-04 01:33PM | 0 recs
Because he's a fake!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Because he's a fake!

Go vote for McCain then.  We get it you don't like Obama.  Thanks for pointing that out every chance you get.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-05 04:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Because he's a fake!

I know!  Jesus Christ it's all day with this one.  

by MeganLocke 2008-07-07 01:14AM | 0 recs
Re: We're a nation of laws, not of men
Catfish That's basically what McCain just said.
He isn't the man we thought he was.
by Politicalslave 2008-07-05 01:19AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

A sad Groundhog Day all over again. MyDD looks more and more like some kind of 'bizzaro Redstate' website than a distinctly left-wing of the Democratic Party website.

If the distinction between Democrats and Republicans has morphed into just being mirror image 'opposites' then we are well and truly screwed. The trashing of Obama for his reasoned and well-articulated stands on the various issues confronting the world is not a good sign.

The trolls are bad people, but they aren't the scariest problem. The "absolutist-purity my way or no-way knee-jerk echo-chamber our-turn mad-as-hell at the Bush regime so now let's base our entire platform on the most liberal talking points we can think of and hammer Obama for any deviation from that" diarists and commentators are tiresome, boring, and wrong.

We have a candidate. Be practical. Work to get him elected, or risk the consequences.

by xdem 2008-07-04 10:48AM | 0 recs
You know ....

most of us freely acknowledge that we will be voting for Obama, and are in support of Obama.

I have even gone on record as stating that I do NOT want Hillary to be the VP pick, I prefer she have a different role.

I have also gone on record here as telling the PUMA folks to STOP, and have called several of them out on their selfish behavior.

However, that does not mean that I cannot speak out when I do not see eye to eye with our nominee, nor does it mean that I have to sit back and watch folks STILL try to rewrite history and make Bill Clinton's record 'shit'.

But I do understand your concerns.  However, we are here to promote Democratic ideals,and some of us are more progressive than some of us thought, and some of us seem to not be as progressive as once was imagined.

Happy 4th, let the founding fathers objectives, goals and aspirations for America ring still today!

by emsprater 2008-07-04 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: You know ....

Wasn't meant for you...your discussions always seem relevant and I'm glad you bring them up.  Happy 4th to you as well.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 10:56AM | 0 recs
Why are PUMAs selfish? Because they think

Obama is the weakest candidate? Because they're mad at the democratic party for being less than democratic as a result of the May 31 coup? Because they want ALL the votes to be counted? Because they want the candidate who legitimately won the most votes? You forget that Obama was selected by the SDs not by the voters so why shouldn't they revolt? Why shouldn't they want transparency in their party?

Have you watched the videos of the Unity day in NH? Great show of democracy when Obama's surrogates told the Hillary's supporters to go and stand 1/4 mile away from the event and took away their signs! I'm glad they exist and hope they raise hell at the convention! No coronation for the selected nominee! He's reaping what he sowed...

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Why are PUMAs selfish? Because they think

Boo Freakin Hoo...Cry me a river...

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Some of the feelings are genuine - there are a fair number of people disappointed by recent events.  Some of it is message control.  The fact is that a certain non-posting contingent that I like to call the Ghost Patrol long ago discovered the flaws in the rec system and now exploit those flaws to keep various divisive diaries at the top of the list.  That is one of the reasons why, on some days, it seems like the primary wars continue here unabated.

by rfahey22 2008-07-04 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

it is a sad day when the democratic nominee looks more like a republican than a democrat lately.

some of his positions and statements are horrific.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

How does he look like more of a Repub on the top issues?

The economy, war in Iraq, Healthcare, National Security, Immigration, Education where does he look like more like a GOP than a Dem on these issues?

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

His latest comments this past couple of weeks have sounded like shit from a republican.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Give me examples on the issues that I mentioned above?  You know the ones that Americans say are their top ones.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

well, I am an American and women rights are at the top of my list.  Not happy with his "mental distress" comment at all.

and FISA - did he "unite" the House to vote against it?  I guess I will have to wait until he is president to start uniting.

and what about the stupid faith based shit - if we are going to give millions of dollars to religious institutions now, I want them taxed as well.

Iraq - he isn't going to get us out there anytime soon, based on his latest comments.  

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

So your more in tune with McGaffe's position on women's rights?

FISA is going to pass any way, period.  He will fight the telecom immunity.

Faith Based Iniatives were endorsed by HRC and many Dems as well.

He will get us out of Iraq.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

"It was going to happen anyway" is the worst rationale ever.  Seriously.

He is voting the wrong way.  No excuse.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

what the fuck are you talking about?  Who the fuck are you talking to?

I am voting for Obama, not McCain.  I am also {gasp, OMG} criticizing him for pandering to the righties by acting like one.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:31AM | 0 recs
As reported by the AP

On the abortion story. They also reported the faith-based story stating he would let charities discriminate based on faith - a flat-out lie on their part. They've done this repeatedly and I don't trust their interpretation of the abortion story.

How is he going to "unite the House", he's a Senator? You do realize he has no control over what happens in the House because he's in the Senate, right?

Iraq - he isn't going to get us out there anytime soon, based on his latest comments.  

I give up! Are you for real?

by BrighidG 2008-07-04 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: As reported by the AP

Barack is the defacto leader of the party now.  He could, if he wanted, force the hands of democrats in the house and make them vote his way.  He didn't do this because he knows it would hurt centrist democrats reelection chances.  But to be clear he could do it if he wanted to.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: As reported by the AP

No he could not.  Bill Clinton, as President, couldn't get half of his early legislation passed when Democrats controlled the Senate - there's no way that Barack Obama with about a quarter of the power could force the hands of democrats in the house.

He just can't.  And when people say "clearly" or "it's clear", that's usually a sign that what's about to follow is rank speculation.

by MeganLocke 2008-07-04 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: As reported by the AP

I speculate that if Obama had challenged the house democrats from a large public venue and got lots of media attention (which he always does), he would have been able to force many democrats to flip.  It would have risked his credibility but that is why it may have worked.  Once again, pure speculation.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:50AM | 0 recs

This is someone who had to wait till early June to secure the nomination. And if he had attempted that and failed, the MSM would have bleated: "Obama wants to unite the country, can't unite own party!" From now until November.

It was Pelosi's job to deliver the House and it's Obama's job to vote against FISA immunity but anything more is over-reaching, IMO.

by BrighidG 2008-07-05 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: As reported by the AP

your abuse has been reported

by zerosumgame 2008-07-04 01:23PM | 0 recs
what abuse???!!!

Because she said someone was speculating.  That's pretty hyper-sensitive, don't you think?

by thurst 2008-07-04 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: As reported by the AP

He can't because many of the Dem reps in the house and senate probably went along with Bush's scheme about warrantless wiretapping right after 9-11 in a knee jerk reaction.  Many are voting Yea just to get the whole mess behind them, IMO.  I think their are many Dem reps neck deep in this whole FISA shit.

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:39PM | 0 recs
You need to brush-up on your civics

Reid and Pelosi = leaders of the party.

Obama = possible leader of the party but till November 5th, he's nothing but a junior Senator with great potential.

by BrighidG 2008-07-05 07:38PM | 0 recs
Sorry for the snarky title to first response

Read too quickly, thought you were colebiancardi.

by BrighidG 2008-07-05 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I will give you the "mental distress" and FISA.  These are issues he is wrong on.

I think religious groups do great works and if they can help make our society better without openly pushing their religion on you, we should help them.  It is much more cost effective to fund already running soup kitchens than to start from scratch.

And Iraq.  He has not shifted at all.  Not even 0.1%.  Anybody that says he is was not paying attention for the last 12 months or only heard what they wanted to hear.  His position in a nutshell is:  When he becomes President he will change the mission in Iraq to withdraw.  He will then discuss the new mission with Generals on the ground to develop the withdrawal strategy.  He thinks this can  be done in about 16 months but has always left the door open to longer if a shorter time would put soldiers lives in jeopardy.  Please link me to his recent comments that go against this policy.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Well said, especially in regards to Iraq. Those who are accusing him of shifting are not really paying attention IMO, just wanting to add a complaint to their list.

I agree that it was unnecessary and a bummer that he wants to exclude "mental distress" from pregnancy concerns. That opens the door.

I also wish he took a risk and came down on the other side of FISA, but I also acknowledge that he needs to be careful how he represents himself on national security for the general. The right wing will most likely try to paint him as weak on terrorism because of the Iraq withdraw plan. He is probably looking for ways to prevent them from "connecting the dots" with too many other stances that could be sound-bited into soft on terrorists. I think he has the skills to pull off explaining how the protection of constitutional rights, even in the arena of spying on potential terrorists, actually strengthens our hand in the overall struggle. Despite my disappointment, I still believe at this point that he will work toward correcting the overstepping of the executive branch once he wins.

Like you, I actually support the faith-based charity stance because I think it is a more efficient way to get help to the needy than by relying on government-organized programs. Of course, it won't be perfectly efficient, but hey, I'd rather give money to the needy than build bombs any day.

by glopster 2008-07-04 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Maybe you should inform yourself instead of spreading smears about Obama.

Obama yesterday: "I will bring our troops out at a pace of one to two brigades per month and at that pace we will have our combat troops out in 16 months."

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-04 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I look forward to your detailed, sourced, policy analysis, backing up this claim.

by Dreorg 2008-07-04 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I look forward to your detailed, sourced, policy analysis backing UP his claims.

Obama doesn't seem to have a position anymore.

am I voting for him?  yeah, and holding my nose.  He is better than McCain.

However, am I pissed off at him?  you bet.  His comments lately have been right of the center.  Not the center.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day
You can always inform yourself here about Obama's positions:
by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-04 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

sigh....yes, I know about his website - I also know what he has been stating lately as well.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Complain complain complain complain.

You are a one note my friend.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-05 04:05AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

It's a sad when when  ahandful of bitter, dead-ender, PUMAS and McTrolls are allowed to hijack a website formerly devoted to helping the nominee of the Democratic Party.

by Beren 2008-07-04 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Like when he said he would annihilate Iran off the face of the earth? Oh yeah, that wasn't him who said that.

by venician 2008-07-04 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day
Cole there is no comparison to any Republican.
This is just another example of the Rovian Talking points
by Politicalslave 2008-07-05 01:23AM | 0 recs
As I said he's reaping what he sowed!

He hasn't won the nomination fair and square so don't expect unity - that is his problem! the SDs gave him the nomination - when you look at the list, the first ones out,  were all given campaign contributions by him, so he basically bought their votes and as good democrats we don't like our nominee to be selected by people who were made to support him because of money!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:44AM | 0 recs
Re: As I said he's reaping what he sowed!

Get over it. Obama won the most votes and the most delegates.

It was Clinton who wanted to overturn the results of the primaries with an SD coup.

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-05 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Hey honey , today isn't a sad day , its a day to celebrate the country we all love ( or at least most of us ).

A day to celebrate the greatest country on the face of the planet.

Stay away from the blogs today , enjoy the day .

No need to be out of kilter today.

by lori 2008-07-04 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Thanks sweetie...I'm just so sick of Dubya, I can't wait for 2009!

Have a great 4th!!

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Hey honey

OMG teh sexism!!!!

by Can I Haz Moar Snark 2008-07-04 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

yeah- seems like we have digressed more than ever recently. but hey if you;re not part of the solution   then you're part of the problem. so everyone needs to stop commenting on the bullshit flame war diaries and ignore them. that and you got to write more positive diaries to combat the shittyness.[the fact is, most people here love the controversy. issue diaries go overlooked-]

so that being said, i got a diary in the works! and i never write diaries.

by alyssa chaos 2008-07-04 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Looking forward to it:)

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Does this diarist think it was good, then, that Democrats stayed silent and only said positive things about John Kerry when the Swift Boat Liars were doing their thing too and Kerry was just chuckling about it?

Bushies also think only good things must be said about him too.

Saying it makes it so hasn't worked real well.

by Juno 2008-07-04 11:02AM | 0 recs
Boo Frickin Hoo

Just because he is the nominee doesn't mean we have to close our eyes and cover our ears and close our mouths.

I will vote for your guy, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

by BRockNYC 2008-07-04 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Boo Frickin Hoo

Have a great 4th of July!

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Hey diarist.

Today is a great day for all americans! democrats, republicans & independents.

Since when did the 4th of July celebrations become Barack Obama day!

Relax. Stay offline for today.

You had too much to drink.

P.S. Just be thankful that we are not seeing
 " Buyers Remorse" among democrats. Obama better remember how "idealistic" his fans are. He better ask their permission before changing his positions weekly.

Obama seems to be outpacing the young Governor Bill Clinton in 1992 in his rapid move to the center.

by labanman 2008-07-04 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Thanks labaman...Don't drink though...your right there is much to be happy about, thanks for the reality check!  Happy 4th to you!

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

"it is a sad day when the democratic nominee looks more like a republican than a democrat lately"

tell ya what colebiancardi...You come to Colorado Springs...
Stand outside the Focus for Family Headquarters..
Bring or make the Pro Choice sign...

Are you closer to the conservative town of Independence MO?

If people cannot see where OUR nominee is going to specific places to present himself...fine..
I await McCain going to Cal-Berkley of the University of Colorado in Boulder....

I do admire the life you live where Obama's positions are considered "horrific"
There is plenty of horror around us..
Sen. Obama's positions should be low on your list...

by nogo postal 2008-07-04 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I have always lived in liberal states.  So, to me, Obama is moving to the republican side.

It is horrific when he states that "mental distress" is not an excuse for abortion - like he would know or something.  

It is horrific when he stabs America in the back with FISA (ask Russ Feingold how he feels about that bill)

It is horrific to pour taxpayers dollars into so-called faith based programs and yet those religious organizations don't pay one damn dime in taxes.

It is horrific because he is creating his own platform, instead of the democratic platform - you know, the party he belongs to?

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day


by xdem 2008-07-04 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

thank you for YOUR concern.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: "The Party he belongs to"?

This is now a General Election campaign. Obama intends to be the President of the United States, not the President of the Left wing (my wing, btw) of the Democratic Party. I'm so sorry that this comes as a surprise to those who haven't been listening during the Party's primary election, and is now a source of great disappointment and concern to the purists who are dismayed at the prospect that other points of view would be tolerated, let alone considered and accommodated, by our candidate.

Wait a minute. I'm not sorry at all. I'm happy that our candidate is the man that he is, and that he isn't just parroting Liberal talking points and PANDERING to his 'base'.

My suggestion to people who don't get it is to be open minded and to listen to what the man is saying. Be open to a different point of view.

Learn Something New!  

by xdem 2008-07-04 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

"I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected." -Clinton

"There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles." -Clinton

How has Clinton been any different than Obama in terms of FISA?

Face it, Clinton and Obama have damn near identical policies, so if there is cause to be "horrified" it should have happened long ago when we narrowed the field down to these two candidates.  He's not creating his own platform, he's sharing a platform with Democrats like Hillary Clinton, and it's an electable platform.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-07-04 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

and Hillary would not have dismissed "mental distress".  I do bitch about her stance on faith based initiatives.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:45AM | 0 recs

for thatpurplestuff!

Obama is an excellent Democrat! The trashing of Obama therefore must be less motivated by 'purity' than by a desire to mislead and spread disillusion and distrust.

Thanks for the quotes. Much Mojo!

by xdem 2008-07-04 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Hillary is not the presumptive nominee.  Or are you alluding to something else?

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-04 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

"...if there is cause to be "horrified" it should have happened long ago when we narrowed the field down to these two candidates."

by thatpurplestuff 2008-07-04 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

The problem is that passing the FISA legislation now IS a part of the democratic platform.

31 out of 49 Democratic senators voted to end the filibuster on FISA.

Start with attacking those guys instead of expecting the Democratic nominee to go against the majority of his party at a moment the primaries only just ended.

Obama said that mental distress was not a valid excuse in late-term abortions.

Nothing wrong with supporting faith based programs if they do their jobs well and don't discriminate.

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-04 01:26PM | 0 recs
Are you kidding? I'll never stop criticizing him

for his hypocrisy, his race baiting and flip-flopping! You don't find it horrific that, as a constitutional lawyer, he would even consider voting against your civil rights, making abortion illegal for women who suffers, in his words, mental distress and would OK the death penalty for pedophiles? You belong in the wrong party! Stop being an apologist for his weakness and his willing to compromise priciple for political ambition - where and when does it stop then?

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:53AM | 0 recs

Oh, the delicious irony.  You have actually come out and said that you are voting for McCain in November, and yet here you are telling Democrats who are going to vote for the Democratic nominee that they are in the wrong party.  Too funny.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-07-05 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

oh Brock nyc
"I will vote for your guy, but it doesn't mean I have to like it."

Take your sorry ass back to the GOP..
If your were a Dem..you would know Sen. Obama is our guy...

by nogo postal 2008-07-04 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

oh go blow yourself.  How many times have I read here that people held their nose while voting for Kerry or Gore or Clinton?

Obama is no different.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:19AM | 0 recs
Holding one's nose is not the same as doing

McBush's knifework.

by Beren 2008-07-04 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Holding one's nose is not the same as doing

huh?  People are stating they are voting for Obama, but not liking it.

how is that doing McBush's knifework and how is that different than holding one's nose?

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Holding one's nose is not the same as doing

Beren is supporting you.  Read the subject line and post as one sentence and you will see that he is agreeing with you.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:36AM | 0 recs
Well said! When voting for Kerry, I wondered why

I was doing so because I had no idea what he stood for, but as a good democrat of 36 yrs I voted for him, but no more! I have to take a stand - I'm voting Nader!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 02:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Well said! When voting for Kerry, I wondered w

Way to make a difference!  Maybe you can vote down ticket too for Barney, Dora the Explorer & Kung Fu Panda.

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

You are wrong on this one.

Many people will hold their nose and vote for Obama.  I am fine with that.

I held my nose for Kerry but I am a Democrat and did the right thing.  These people are Democrats too.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:34AM | 0 recs
Why should you continue doing this when the

dems let us down continuously! Shouldn't we start teaching them a lesson? Aren't you fed up of having your vote taken for granted? I am!

Do you really believe that Pelosi and Reid represent you well? Have they lived up to their 2006 promises of ending the war? NOOOOO.... I've had it with them - I'm voting against every incumbent no matter the party - they are corrupt to the core and I want to clean house if not make sure that they know that I will no longer allow them to take my vote for granted!

Vote third party - we can no longer afford the 2 traditional parties - we need another voice at the table!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Why should you continue doing this when the

You're not very good at what you do...

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day
For our President Bush...
(and posers everywhere)
Happy 4th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjqYPH7r Ao
by nogo postal 2008-07-04 11:21AM | 0 recs

I think he's earned his fair share of critisism. He's drifting to the right more and more every day. Two weeks ago, I would have thought a Republican Veep pick was impossible. Now, I'm not so sure. If he picks a GOP'er as veep--I'm done.

by zcflint05 2008-07-04 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Ummmm...

Disregarding his reversal on FISA, how has Obama drifted to the right?

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-04 01:28PM | 0 recs
For faith based initiatives, for guns,.

against abortion when mental distress is present, wavering about taking our soldiers out of Iraq - used to be 11 months, now saying 16 months but believe after his trip will change his tune completely, for NAFTA before he was against it, against universal health care for adults - gives control to insurance companies, social security reform, etc!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:10AM | 0 recs
Stop the lies

Obama on faith-based initiatives, July 2008: "I still believe it's a good idea to have a partnership between the White House and grass-roots groups, both faith-based and secular.

I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe this partnership will endanger that idea - so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them - or against the people you hire - on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we'll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work."

Obama on faith-based initiatives, January 2008: "No, I don't think so, because I am much more concerned with maintaining the line between church and state. And I believe that, for the most part, we can facilitate the excellent work that's done by faith-based institutions when it comes to substance abuse treatment or prison ministries.... I think much of this work can be done in a way that doesn't conflict with church and state. I think George Bush is less concerned about that.

My general criteria is that if a congregation or a church or synagogue or a mosque or a temple wants to provide social services and use government funds, then they should be able to structure it in a way that all people are able to access those services and that we're not seeing government dollars used to proselytize."

Obama on guns, July 2008: "Justice Scalia himself acknowledged that this right is not absolute and subject to reasonable regulations enacted by local communities to keep their streets safe. Today's ruling, the first clear statement on this issue in 127 years, will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country."

Obama said if elected president, he would uphold the rights of gun owners, but he said: "I know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact common-sense laws, like closing the gun show loophole and improving our background check system, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals."

Obama on guns, February 2008: "Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions."

Obama on abortion, July 2008: "I have repeatedly said that I think it's entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don't think that "mental distress" qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term. Otherwise, as long as there is such a medical exception in place, I think we can prohibit late-term abortions."

Obama on abortion, April 2008: "On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that."

Obama on Iraq, July 2008: "My first day in office I will bring the Joint Chiefs of Staff in, and I will give them a new mission, and that is to end this war -- responsibly, deliberately, but decisively. And I have seen no information that contradicts the notion that we can bring our troops out safely at a pace of one to two brigades a month, and again, that pace translates into having our combat troops out in 16 months' time."

Obama on Iraq, November 2007: "You know, John on this one I actually think has been either misinformed or isn't being entirely straight. I am committed to getting all of our combat troops out by 16 months. So he can say first year. I've said 16 months based on what the generals and commanders tell me can be done. And we are going to have still, I believe, the need to have some forces that are available to go after terrorist bases should they emerge in Iraq. Now if he doesn't think that's an important function, then I'm happy to have that debate. But be perfectly clear, I will bring this war to an end as quickly as can be done with the safety of the troops in mind, and my belief is that we can get that done in 16 months."

Obama on NAFTA, June 2008: "Obama says he believes in "opening up a dialogue" with trading partners Canada and Mexico "and figuring to how we can make this work for all people."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said that Obama-as the candidate noted in Fortune's interview-has not changed his core position on NAFTA, and that he has always said he would talk to the leaders of Canada and Mexico in an effort to include enforceable labor and environmental standards in the pact."

Obama on NAFTA, September 2007: "Obama was also pressed on trade deals like the North American Free Trade Agreement. He said he disagrees with more liberal rivals such as Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who want to scrap the deal. A better approach is tougher enforcement of labor and environmental standards, he said."

Where you get the rest, I have no idea.

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-07-05 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Stop the lies


by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day
a colebiancardi....
your recent attempts to present yourself as someone different than you did here during the primaries..
is slipping away...
I am way too old to attempt your suggestion..
gotta go..
am going up to the Colorado hills (8,500 ft)
We are having our usual (31st) gathering..
this year planning for fun here in Denver...during Aug..
by nogo postal 2008-07-04 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

what are you talking about?  I am the same person here as I was during the primaries.

I have always supported the democrats.  But I have never been shy to point out any issues with them.

by colebiancardi 2008-07-04 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Look on the bright side. Jesse Helms is dead.

by xdem 2008-07-04 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Jesse Helms was an asshole but I don't think we should ever celebrate someones death.  Assholes have wives, kids, grandkids and friends.  Let them grieve.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Want a Republican to expose their true affections? Celebrate, ever so slightly, the passing of one of the worst one of their ilk who ever lived. Then just sit back and wait for outrage.

Works every time.

by xdem 2008-07-04 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Yep you caught me.  I think that death is something that shouldn't be celebrated and therefore I am a republican.  You sure tricked me into showing my true colors.  Asshole.

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 02:03PM | 0 recs

Really beyond the pale to accuse you of being a Republican because you displayed a bit of humanity.

by sricki 2008-07-04 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

oh, hootie, get over yourself. If we can't have some fun over the amazing backtracking, move to the right and general re-positioning that is going on, where else is that supposed to happen? the nominee is not God. he is all too human and he gets a lampooning everty now and then. this is not a monarchy--last I looked.

by linfar 2008-07-04 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

 That is complete mis-characterization of the facts. Obama's views are mainstream Democratic policy. If you have followed his campaign, listened to his speeches, and listened to the scorn and derision heaped on him by Hillary and her minion over the last eleventeen months then you know that he has been a consistent and nuanced candidate who speaks to people as though they were adults. That is precisely what appealed to the people who voted for him in the primary - and that is, imo, why he was able to catch up to Hillary and ultimately win the nomination. Ultimately that will win him a landslide victory in November - and relegate purists on the fringes of politics to where they belong: howling at the moon somewhere.

by xdem 2008-07-04 12:16PM | 0 recs
You're right, he's nuanced to the hilt - passing

himself as a leftist and deriding Clinton for her mainstream positions.we have to accept him for what he campaigned he was not? He's stuck with his campaign image and should be called out on it - he played dirty in the nomination process, so let him pay the price from his supporters, he deserves it and then some! God, I hate hypocrites...

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: You're right, he's nuanced to the hilt - passi

Must be hard to look in the mirror...

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Have a great 4th of July!

by hootie4170 2008-07-04 12:46PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

You didn't think it was such great "fun" when we accused hillary of lurching to the right during the primaries, did you????

by venician 2008-07-04 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

The reason you see is these diaries on the Rec List is because we nominated the wrong person. Plain and simple. Lets thank the caucus system for that.

by bsavage 2008-07-04 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Thanks caucus system!

by thatpurplestuff 2008-07-04 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Thank you caucus system!!

by CAchemist 2008-07-04 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I have yet to see a single post from an Obama-primary supporter who claims they wished they had supported HRC instead, so I think we have not gotten to the point that we feel that we (i.e. the democrats) nominated the wrong person. I think the situation is still that we did not nominate the person that was your first choice.

by glopster 2008-07-04 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Thanks, Caucus system!

by xdem 2008-07-04 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

I thought it was obvious: Hillary Clinton. There is no fucking way that anyone would question her patriotism, and she wouldn't take any crap from John McCain. Most importantly, she never claimed to be some holier than thou candidate, so when she did move to the center on some issues, it would not be seen as a tragedy, as with Obama.

by bsavage 2008-07-04 07:07PM | 0 recs

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:16AM | 0 recs

Quit bringing religion into politics!

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

You lost me when you started criticizing people saying positive things about Hillary Clinton.  What's wrong with that?  No, she's not the presumptive nominee, but aren't we allowed to say positive things about other Democrats?

by markjay 2008-07-04 12:34PM | 0 recs
Remember that

some are not or will they be a strong supporter of Obama. Some of the reasons they are not and were not are based on thier "concerns". So these concerns are are valid to them. Maybe the only ways to help soften or eliminate these concerns, is for them to either get factual information (not just campaign rhetoric) or to read/hear Barack Obama speak about these concerns in a way that helps to eliminate these concerns.

I am definitely voting FOR Barack Obama. I like him and much of what he stands for.

BUT, I do have concerns about what he will really do. I have concerns that he will swing with the political pressure and the pressure from corporations.

by kevin22262 2008-07-04 03:23PM | 0 recs


by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:17AM | 0 recs
We want an actual Democrat

He's for the death penalty for crissakes.

The guy just told Fortune to forget all his anti NAFTA rhetoric.  A lot of people voted for him because they thought he was change on trade.  Now he tells the corporate rich mag, no, I'm really a free trader.

Pick the issue and Obama is now rapidly running from the center, where he always was, over to the right.

He's now trying to our McCain on a number of issues: Cuba, Israel, Iran, Afghanistan, faith based crap...

And you wonder why there's diaries criticizing man.

We want an actual Democrat like Edwards or Kucinich.

by neaguy 2008-07-04 05:28PM | 0 recs

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:18AM | 0 recs

i really tried to force myself not to post in this diary because i wanted to avoid conflict.  and i tried, but i couldn't stop myself because this has been on the rec list for so long.  so here goes...

when the primaries were on - i usually found you to be quite engaging, honest and had some really insightful things to say.  quite honestly - i looked forward to reading your diaries and comments whether i agreed with them or not.  

i wish i could say the same for now.

it would seem (and correct me if i am wrong) that you are a member of the 'purity police' here like your pals (you know who they are).  you have mojo'ed some highly questionable comments and remember when you hounded me about MO?  i criticized the media in how they treated her in other diaries - but that wasn't enough for you!  you demanded that i write diaries about it!

to sum it up - i find it hard to take your message to heart to discuss things in a mature and rational level since your behaviour since the primary has been over has run contrary to that message.  

besides - you want to get rid of the trolls?  here's how - call out the ones that bash HRC too - and then maybe it would motivate more to do the same.  i know i do.

by canadian gal 2008-07-04 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: hootie...

With all due respect CG, you are one of the main reasons why my attitude has changed.  I know I have become more vocal in defending Obama and if you look through my diaries and comments I stopped bashing HRC a few months ago.  Plus I have written 2-3 positive diaries on HRC herself. I don't remember any positive diaries from you on Obama, I may be wrong.

However, it is apparent to me that some on this site will never let go of primary contest and continue to bring up reasons for HRC's loss.  Blaming it on sexism, a pro-Obama media and unfair treatment of the Clinton's.  All of those things may have occurred but the primary reason for her loss was a poor campaign strategy.  Anyways, It is what it is and we have a nominee.

Just like you see a different person in me, I also see a different type of writing from yourself.  While you do a great job in reminding us how inappropriate the media is and how sexism is still a problem in our country you mostly use examples that either present HRC as the victim or Obama (and everyone or thing associated with him) as the offender.  Your message gets lost with me because I feel there is an underlying point you continually try and make.  And the point is that Obama wouldn't have won had he not used sexism, race baiting and the media.

I may be misreading you, and if I am you have my heartfelt apology.

by hootie4170 2008-07-05 10:08AM | 0 recs
i agree fully.

i think you are misreading me - your statements about BO and HRC and my views are inaccurate - but i do not want to argue them since this is the whole prupose of this diary...

many here (both HRC and BO supporters in the primary) want to continue the flame wars.  

now that is not to say that i do not think we should stop reflecting back on what happened then, especially to hold the fail media accountable.  but it seems the majority here are hooked on conflict and cannot help themselves.  but this diary can somewhat be included in that.

now as to my diaries.  i am not sure i have ever written any disparaging (at least undeserved) of BO - even during the primary.  at least 80% of my diaries have been about the media and sexism even then.

now my last few diaries have not even mentioned HRC and in fact i believe the last two referenced sexism, the media and MO.  

but beyond that - what is it exactly that you want Mydd to become?  my personal stalker here (that you seem to uprate any chance you have) wants it to become an echo chamber of cheerleading.  not only is that boring as hell - but - and i cannot stress this enough - NOT PROGRESSIVE at all.

if your political principles are based more than BO then i would think you would welcome criticism and debate here.  

i agree there are trolls, but i dont see you calling out the latest one that keeps calling HRC leatherface and her supporters feminazis- why is that?

to conclude - i will say it again - if you want to improve the discussion here, its very simple - lead by example.  call out ALL the trolls, comment on the non-primary diaries and be kind ;)

by canadian gal 2008-07-05 02:20PM | 0 recs
Mydd RIP

I said during the primary war that this place would become MyMcCain once Obama won. And it did. Jerome goes and recs garbage diaries bashing our nominee, doesn't write anything positive, and the entire DEADEND crew of PUMA's came crawling back with the filth, their slime, and their cancer. They have nothing to do with Hillary, and everything to do with making sure John McCain wins.

The admins here know that some trolls have 10 or more socketputtet accunts, and don't are. And those sockputters are only here to promote McCain, bash Obama, and ruin the site as much as possible. Those are the PUMA losers, so angry, so bitter, so filled with hatred for the nominee and the party.

And Jereome and his admis let them come here to promote victory for McCain.

I checked the traffic on MYDD at Alexis. Huge huge huge dip. And you wonder why?

Seriously, just change the name and  be done with it.

by TheFullBerry 2008-07-04 08:42PM | 0 recs
PUMAS will not vote for McCain... just like

I can't - when I was overly pissed I took a look at the wildside, and soon realized why I could never vote republican - they're loonies but then I took a gander at Nader and saw that I agreed 100% with his policies so I'm voting for him. I don't know if he's got the numbers he needs to get on the ballot in Texas, if he doesn't, I will trade my vote with someone where he's on it!

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:23AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day


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by MWinnie 2008-07-04 09:05PM | 0 recs
Good call.

Reading MyDD & Kos lately has made me leary of my own kind...progressives.  Can't we let ourselves win for a change?  

by Garret 2008-07-04 09:23PM | 0 recs
Not if it means going against one's principles

just for the sake of winning! It's unacceptable

by suzieg 2008-07-05 03:24AM | 0 recs
If it were HIllary doing the same you'd support

her.  EOS

by Mae Scott 2008-07-05 06:28AM | 0 recs
Gas Tax Holiday

It was OK for Hillary to lie like a rug about the Gas Tax, but if Obama votes the same way on FISA as Hillary then he is some kind of flip flop artist who has betrayed the Democratic Party.

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-05 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

by Garret 2008-07-04 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

Please stop whining. A presidential is fair game for criticism and those who criticize may actually be democrats.

by Ignored and Disgusted 2008-07-05 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: A Sad Day

There is a difference between criticism and constant criticism.  

You aren't fooling anyone.

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-05 05:50AM | 0 recs


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