Obama should fight his OWN battles

Make no mistake, I support senator Obama on his bid for presidency. HOWEVER, his move of sending Hillary to advocate his case instead of Biden or his long term surrogates just undermines his case. Democrats underestimated Sarah palin. They did everything starting with hideous conspiracy theories to letting their surrogate media dogs tear her apart. and when they saw her intact and deliver her speech at RNC, they knew they clearly dropped the ball on her and underestimated her.

so what does Obama do?  he goes straight to hillary clinton. haa.. if he felt he needed her by his side, maybe there was a position of VP for which he should have atleast vetted her. I think at this point, hillary just wants to be a good democrat and fall in line, and iron his shirts while he goes to highest office and feels good about himself.. thats her choice.. but I think as a strong Hillary and Bill supporter, I feel Obama will not waste time in dumping on them when he can, but for now.. he will use them the max he can..

Democrats NEED to win this thing.. but they need to win it the right way.. its Obama's battle.. its Bidens battle.. its our battle as supporters and its Hillary's battle as a surrogate.. but its not her job to be an attack dog and tear Sarah palin apart and eviscerate her loyal base of women and men who like women in higher positions and see them equal.. i.e non sexist men.. just my two cents!

Update: One of the talking points is that Hillary supporters wanted to see Hillary in WH.. not any woman.. I disagree.. she had atleast 15% of her base.. 60+ women voters who genuinely wanted to see a woman in white house.. remember the quote Hillary used.. I was born before women could vote and I am glad I am getting oppurtunity to vote a woman in white house.. So to soem of the comment posting fellow friends.. there was a base of Hillary supporters that voted for Hillary who wanted to vote for woman in WH..

Update: I agree 100% with clinton spokesman.. saying tis bread and butter issues that made people support Hillary.. Universal health care when Obama was going bats over and running condemnable ads against UHC.. its bread and butter issues of standing up for FISA and fundamental rights of people.. its bread and butter issues of fairer economy, and more pro growth agenda.. making sure republicans dont scare us into believing social security is in jeopardy.. so on and so forth.. those are bread and butter issues.. not attacking Palins kids and her grades in college.. DESPIABLE TACTICS!!!!

I dont think attacking Palin for taking Hillary talking points is the right thing.. especially when we all know senator Obama made speeches right out of Deval patricks textbooks and Senator Biden.. mmm I wont go there.. ISSUES PLEASE!!

Tags: Hillary, obama (all tags)



Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

So, because she wasn't picked for VP she should just sit back and do nothing for her party or the ticket. And this is after Hillary said the most important thing to her is to insure the Democrats take back the White House.

Well OK then. You must be right and she must be wrong.

This is going to be a tough election and  everybody needs to be out there fighting to insure we win win it, not just Obama and Biden.

by jsfox 2008-09-05 04:32AM | 0 recs
If he had picked Hill

Should all the other VP candidates have shunned them? You think 2 dems should fight the entire GOP? Two versus team?

No wonder we lose.

by Neef 2008-09-05 04:38AM | 0 recs
Re: If he had picked Hill

whenever someone starts off a diary with 'im a democrat' and then says democrats spreaded 'malicious smears about Palin' I see right through the first statement.  and then said dem diarist scolds us because Hillary is stumping for Obama as she promised.  diary = fail, crap, puma piss, and or fake dem. take your pick

by KLRinLA 2008-09-05 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Here's how I see it.

1) Hillary has every right to pummel the daylights out of Palin -- Palin is stealing her lines and pretending to be the "next best thing to Hillary" while she is nothing AT ALL like Hillary.  Hillary does have a self-interest here (Hillary is NOT a Republican prop!!!!), though I know she will do it so women (and men) will know the truth.

2) I don't know if, at least right now, the Men can go after her without McCain crying that daring to speak the truth is sexist, even though Palin is on record as calling that "whining."

by HillarysDesire 2008-09-05 04:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Why don't you let the Democrats involved figure out the best way for them to win this election?

by rfahey22 2008-09-05 04:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Another deeply stupid diary by someone who hasn't gotten Hillary's message.

by ReillyDiefenbach 2008-09-05 05:46AM | 0 recs
She's tougher then you think GB?

She can't make up her own mind, if she wants to campaign for the Democratic party?

Gladitor, why do you think Senator Clinton is so weak?

All you do is complain about Senator Clinton on these boards?

I sure wish you respected her more, instead of always dissing her ability to decide for herself.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-05 04:50AM | 0 recs
A different take

I think that the new generation of feminists who rejected Hillary Clinton and supported Obama are actually the ones best poised to push the Palin debate and point out the differences in Obama's agenda and McCain's when it comes to women. During the primary, I heard a lot of talk about post-feminism. Palin may be the catalyst for defining exactly what that term means.

Having the "old guard" feminists out there will only go so far against Palin. She's 44, has a young family, she represents the newest face of far right women. I think Obama's got to contrast that with women of Palin's generation who think that her message is all wrong... on women's issues, on the economy, on education, on healthcare, on supporting the working class etc.

Thing is, I think this obsession about women voters swinging to McCain due to Palin is a simplistic interpretation of Palin's impact which is being dramatically overblown by the media. Obama will win pro-choice Democratic and Democratic-leaning women in a landslide of epic proportions frankly.

by twinmom 2008-09-05 04:50AM | 0 recs
Re: A different take

You're right.  I expect to see both groups working on this.  I imagine that Hillary is seething, especially after the one-two punch of Palin stealing claim to her accomplishments and then the 'whining' video.  But this won't be Hillary alone.  The key is to hammer home details of what Palin stands for.  We're going to lose a few women due to identity politics but, if we do our jobs & get the info out, that will be negligible.

by January 20 2008-09-05 05:04AM | 0 recs
Re: A different take

I guess the question then is, which group does Palin appeal to?  White women of approximately the same age?

by rfahey22 2008-09-05 05:10AM | 0 recs
Women are obviously not monolithic

But this Emily's List poll is an interesting starting point in the question of women's reaction to Palin. Here's the overview, lots more info in the link and links on that page.

http://www.emilyslist.org/multimedia/pal in_poll/

* This selection puts Senator John McCain squarely in the realm of politics over principle in women voters' eyes.

* Governor Palin's inclusion on the ticket squanders Senator McCain's previous advantage over Senator Barack Obama with regard to experience and readiness to lead.

* Several of Governor Palin's positions on issues, including her position on abortion, alienate large segments of the women's electorate and add to the perception that the GOP ticket is out of step with women voters' views and priorities.

I'm 38 and on the face of things have a lot in common with Palin. I'm a working mother with young children, juggling career and family. There are certainly things about Plain which I can admire as a woman. But I disagree with her politically on virtually ever substantive issue, her agenda runs completely counter to my own core beliefs, so she'd never get my support or vote.

by twinmom 2008-09-05 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: A different take

God NO!!!  She doesn't appeal to any woman I've met in roughly the same age group!  YUCK!

On the other hand, I do know a few women in deep south Texas that find her fascinating.  I think she appeals most strongly to those who were already in the Republican base.

Personally, being a 42 woman with 3 kids, living a middle class life style, she makes me want to slap her around with her smug expression and KNOWING lies!  

by Pa Woman 2008-09-05 05:32AM | 0 recs
The other thing to remember

Hillary Clinton only won a small majority of the women vote during the primaries. I remember reading somewhere that if even 60% of women had voted for her, she would be the nominee. So, clearly, lots of women were NOT voting for her.

I do think that there was quite a bit of anti-Hillary and anyone-but-Hillary (not this woman) voting going on.

Because of this, I dont fully "get" why there are all the cries for Hillary Clinton to be the spokeswoman against Palin?

I was an avid Clinton supporter, but I need her to tell me not to support McCain because of Palin. I can reach that conclusion all on my own!

For women who are not sold on Hillary Clinton, couldn't any attack on Palin by her actually create a backlash of sorts? As much as the media would love that ideological "cat fight", I don't think democrats should give it to them.

by twinmom 2008-09-05 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: The other thing to remember

I think it would be a bit odd to see other prominent Democratic women like Sibelius attacking Palin, and not Clinton.  Plus it would keep the (erroneous) media story alive that Clinton is not throwing her full weight behind Obama.  This is an all hands on deck campaign, and Hillary should be a part of that.  

Just my nickel.

by trustno1 2008-09-05 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: I thought her loyal base

Would that it were so:

The shocker rocking the political world is that throughout the primary campaign Hillary Clinton was pregnant. It was only recently, after the unDemocratic convention in Denver that Hillary finally gave birth. The gestation period lasted more than 44 years.

The shocker on top of this shock is that Hillary's baby is non other than the Governor of Alaska, now the Republican Vice Presidential nominee, Sarah Palin.

Maybe it's some sort of Terminator-style time travel thing.

by username 2008-09-05 04:50AM | 0 recs
Re: I thought her loyal base

I saw that.  It's a grotesque insult to Hillary.  They should be ashamed to even pretend to care about her.

by January 20 2008-09-05 04:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I thought her loyal base

I agree 100%, which is why I think these PUMA losers need to have their reputations as progressives crushed.  

Well, look what I found...  You think "gladiatorsback" here might be "gladiatorstail" there?

by username 2008-09-05 05:02AM | 0 recs
Good catch.

You're onto something.

by Dracomicron 2008-09-05 05:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

It's simple: identity politics in America are so deeply stupid that only someone with lady parts can really go after a woman, just like only a black guy can go after another black guy.  So if Obama wants to take down Palin, he needs to use female surrogates to do so.  For better or worse, Clinton is probably the highest-profile ovary-having Democrat around, so she's a natural choice.

It's pure biology, folks -- sadly.

by username 2008-09-05 04:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

In the NY Times today, Obama Camp Turns to Clinton to Counter Palin, Clinton's spokesman Mo Elleithee captures the situation better:

Advisers to Mrs. Clinton said that she stood ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged the campaign not to overestimate the impact Mrs. Clinton could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates. Obama aides said the Clinton trip had been in the works before Ms. Palin was named the running mate.

Still, Mo Elleithee, a Clinton spokesman, said he believed she could make a difference with some voters who feel lost in the current economy and who want to see a federal role enacting universal health insurance.

"Anyone who was inclined to support Hillary Clinton typically did so because of her focus on middle-class, bread-and-butter issues," Mr. Elleithee said. "Her message for Barack Obama on those issues could certainly help the Democratic ticket at the ballot box."

The Obama campaign mistakenly thinks this is about women, when it is really about "bread-and-butter issues". Palin's threat is there, not in her gender.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 05:03AM | 0 recs

Maybe you have a different meaning, but "bread and butter issues" typically means economic issues.  Palin offers absolutely nothing on that score.

by JJE 2008-09-05 05:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

It's both right now, and that's because Palin introduced herself by misappropriating Hillary's 18 million cracks.  Hillary needs to take that back from her & force the debate back to issues.  

by January 20 2008-09-05 05:09AM | 0 recs
Re: How is Palin a threat

I phrased it poorly, the way to counter Palin's threat is through bread and butter issues, not identity. Palin is using the classic, divisive Republican appeal: "I'm one of you, not one of them." Her pitch is not simply "I'm a woman", it's "I'm a mom who deals with the same problems and has the same values as you're family has." Voters can fill in the rest, which is that since she is like them she understands them and will represent their interests.

The NY Times article frames Obama's response as an identity pitch, which would be a mistake if true. Using liberal, pro-choice women to fight Palin's working class appeal is going after the wrong identity, better to use Biden if you want to fight for lower and middle class workers.

But better still to skip the identity politics and demonstrate that you will better represent their interests. Obama works pretty hard at that, but the message doesn't get through very well, partly because his campaign telegraphs these "women can help us win these voters against Palin", suggesting that they don't understand who Palin appeals to, or what her appeal is.

According to the article Obama is also using Napolitano and Sebelius, both of whom are somewhat conservative Democratic governors, so they get this at some level. But the perception that women surrogates can blunt Palin's appeal is misleading.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 05:35AM | 0 recs
Its a little of both

Focusing on issues is a good way to counter Palin's threat, but the identity politics still plays a role.  It will be vital for them to keep focusing on the issues while reassuring voters the Dem ticket will represent the interest of women voters.

by Betsy McCall 2008-09-05 05:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Its a little of both

Yeah, a lot of lower and middle class voters are women and they are critical to a Democratic majority. I don't think Palin is a threat among better off women, except as a bank-shot where attacking her clumsily will depress turnout.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 05:53AM | 0 recs
It's not a matter of blunting her appeal

or not completely. It's also an immunity to the "any criticism is sexism" meme.

The GOP has set up a firewall that only a woman can effectively breach.

by Neef 2008-09-05 06:34AM | 0 recs
blunting criticism

Women surrogates are also vulnerable to accusations of sexism and hypocrisy.

The GOP didn't set up a firewall so much as a backburn. They used the latent sexism in the media and leftover from the Democratic primary to ignite a frenzy of sexist attacks, and now have the backlash as a club and shield.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 07:15AM | 0 recs

Give me one example of either thing you said in that post.

by username 2008-09-05 08:08AM | 0 recs

Maureen Dowd's column on Tuesday is an example of all three things I said.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 08:34AM | 0 recs

Dowd, she of the "O'Bambi" and European fashion critique columns, is not a convincing example.  She delights in name-calling, and seems to be an equal-opportunity offender.  She's juvenile, not sexist.  And if you get rid of her inimitable style, she's not really saying anything controversial in that column.

by username 2008-09-05 08:59AM | 0 recs
"club and a shield"?

you mean an excuse. What political figure hides from the media because it's sexist/racist/lgbt-ist? Good grief. Obama was called "uppity" today, maybe the Dems should hide him?

How about the fact that hiding Governor Palin from the mean media is the most outrageously stereotypical patriarch behavior imaginable?

I also disagree that women are accused of being sexist when they ask valid questions (i.e., qualifications). Men have been accused under those conditions.

by Neef 2008-09-05 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: The "I'm one of you" argument

The evidence suggests at this point that a minority will be elected President. Even if Obama fails it is likely to be very close, which suggests to me that a minority President is entirely possible.

The "I'm one of you, not one of them" argument has been used effectively against a whole series of Democratic candidates, there is an element of race to it but it does not rely on race. Bill Clinton won as "one of you", but with a broader definition of "you" and with "them" as an out of touch, patrician George H. W. Bush.

by souvarine 2008-09-05 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: How is Palin a threat

Wait, so, using women surrogates telegraphs "we're desperate and don't know how to counter Palin?"  I disagree.  It would be more disingenuous to not see the women of the party take an active role.  

Also, I thought that Clinton's appeal (and thus her success among the white working class voters) was part identity politics, especially during the end of the primary season. I think that will carry over into the general.  She's not a hockey mom (most overused phrase so far!), but she has more populist appeal than some of the other surrogates.

by trustno1 2008-09-05 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: How is Palin a threat

But the women gov.'s and clinton can be rough with Palin in ways that Obama and Biden probably cant get away with.

I understand the identity aspect, but there is also the slapping around factor to deal with.

by tired of dynasties 2008-09-05 07:13AM | 0 recs
Hold on now.

Democrats underestimated Sarah palin.

Don't you mean "misunderestimated?"

of the talking points is that Hillary supporters wanted to see Hillary in WH.. not any woman.. I disagree.. she had atleast 15% of her base.. 60+ women voters who genuinely wanted to see a woman in white house..

Are you daft?  I'm pretty sure that 99% of women would like to see a woman in the White House.  That doesn't mean that they're dying to vote for an anti-choice, pro-violence fundamentalist Christian ex-beauty pagent sellout.  She's the white female equivilent of Alan Keyes: remind me how well Keyes does with blacks, will you?

It's in both Obama and Clinton's interests to get her out there defending her legacy from that poacher.

by Dracomicron 2008-09-05 05:30AM | 0 recs
Its a non-issue

Hillary is already on the campaign trail for Obama and, as in any campaign, will serve as a good surrogate for Obama/Biden reaching out to women voters.

That said, the contrast in her role as a surrogate whose not on the ticket campaigning against an opponent who is presents a minor problem.    Obama/Biden will just have to find a way to compensate for it.  They made a miscalculation, they'll have to overcome it.

by Betsy McCall 2008-09-05 05:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

"Democrats NEED to win this thing.. but they need to win it the right way.. its Obama's battle.. its Bidens battle.. its our battle as supporters and its Hillary's battle as a surrogate.. but its not her job to be an attack dog and tear Sarah palin apart and eviscerate her loyal base of women and men who like women in higher positions and see them equal.. i.e non sexist men.. just my two cents!"

You know the difference between Democrats and Republicans, and why I find it difficult to ever consider myself a Democrat, in spite of leaving the Republican party in 2004.... you guys are cannibals.

I can never imagine ANY Republican ever advocating the position being advocated in this diary against their candidate.

Let me tell you why you're WRONG gladiatorsback, Palin has HIJACKED Hillary's base and message and PERVERTED it in order to get votes.

That means 2 things:

  1. Hillary has to fight back to tell the idiotic MSM that Palin is perverting her message and is stealing her image without actually adopting any of her ideas.
  2. Hillary Clinton is a Democrat who spoke directly to women, she is the only Democrat who can attack the Palin and avoid the "Sexist" tag. As a Democrat, that is what she has to do.

This election is as much D vs R as it is Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin. If not, then why does the RNC make ads attacking Obama?
2. Hillary Clinton is a DEMOCRAT, she i

by Dickie Simpkins 2008-09-05 05:45AM | 0 recs
Nice framing Dickie

Kind of the way I feel except here in Alabama you have to pick sides therefore I am registered Democrat however I prefer to consider myself Independent.

by netgui68 2008-09-05 06:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Its not just Hillary going after Palin. The point is that all of the female democratic leadership is coming out with one voice.  I like this approach.

by epiphany 2008-09-05 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles
I am not even sure why I am commenting on this diary.  I don't think are looking for strategy discussion, you just want to make snide comments.
Maybe you could send this to Palin, she could put it in her next speech.
by epiphany 2008-09-05 06:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Of course, it's everyone's battle, not Obama's.

It takes a village, after all.

by fsm 2008-09-05 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

rAmen your noodliness!

by lockewasright 2008-09-05 07:18AM | 0 recs
do you have evidence that obama sent hillary...

or made hillary do anything?  from the things i've heard, both through the media and close personal contacts with her "campaign," hillary feels compelled to defend her own legacy.  you obviously know different.  so can you provide something besides speculation to support your claim?  or are you just out of the loop?

i can't say i know too many hillary supporters who think she can be bossed around.  you are unique on that front...

by bored now 2008-09-05 06:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama should fight his OWN battles

Sorry, but picking Palin instead of Hutchinson or Snowe reaks of "any broad'll do".  It is an insult to Hilary.  It insinuates that her support was based on a chromosome and not on her experience, track record, policy stance, leadership, etc.  Hillary should kick Palin's teeth down her damn throat for her.

by lockewasright 2008-09-05 07:17AM | 0 recs


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