Middle class blacks are not going to vote for Clinton

Using racial fears to win

...is supporting systemic racism. Having this issue in the news so much, has an impact on people's lives. I'm a black person who spends most of her time with white people-- there is tension and I feel second guessed. I invited a friend to my church for Easter and they turned me down, I think they were scared it'd be like Wright's church or something-- Not that Wright's church is really "scary" --I'd go there, but some white people think it's scary. And that is simply NOT TRUE.

If Hillary wins this way I don't think there is anything she can do to "make up for it" --Black people are speaking out about the relentless smearing, but white people, won't trust the message unless they hear it from white people too.

Clinton could have stopped all of this and made the issue go away-- she could have won some of the progressive vote for doing it too. She could have been so NOBEL and amazing. Just think about the message it could have sent to the country!

But, she'd rather play up race fears and get votes from poor scared white folks-- who are also suffering in their own way, and who have been played in election after election to vote based on fear for things that don't even help them. Clinton will be better for them than McCain, I guess, but why should I go out and vote for her when she just left us all hanging there --and pretended that the issues didn't matter? Why do I work so hard to help poor white people, by promoting Democrats who have no respect for me or my culture?

I'm rich enough that if I voted for my own interest I should probably vote for a Republican anyway. But, I try not be cynical and self-serving, I try to support Democrats, and the "greater good" but what I've witnessed with the way Rev. Wright was SMEARED, and the way the black church has been SMEARD is making it really really really hard for me to do that.

Let me tell you a few things:

1. Poor black people don't vote that much.
2. The middle class, and upper middle class blacks vote a lot.

Now, I can overcome my anger at Hillary and vote for her if she wins because it'll be the 'lesser of two evils,' and I do care about my country-- and I care about poor people of all colors, but I think in the black community it's mostly a few young, more progressive, people who will do this. People like my parents and other middle class blacks are not going to vote for her. It's over. My father will vote for McCain, my mother will stay home, or leave it blank, my older brother is going to vote for Nader ... again.  In general, middle class black people are caring less and less about the things Democrats do for 'the poor.' It's not about welfare or even Katrina for these folks. It's about being respected as a human being and not having to put up with people who mock your culture the way that Rev. Wright has been mocked. That's why so much of the black community still supported Clinton even after he cut welfare. Middle class blacks don't care about welfare that much! Clinton earned points for putting his office in Harlem and for respecting community leaders inculding Rev. Wright.

That's why Clinton, if she wins, can't win back middle class blacks just by "being progressive" and sponsoring things like healthcare. I don't know if people "get" this.

Tags: black, Class, clinton, race, WHITE (all tags)

Comments

62 Comments

Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

Well that's the problem both candidates have.

25% of Hillary's supporters won't vote for Obama...

That's why a unity ticket is probably the only option that will help both candidates.

Otherwise, either candidate risks losing portions of the other candidates supporters.

by nikkid 2008-03-25 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

This is a problem the party has-- and there is a "right" side in this issue.  It's not using race fear to win. I really wish Clinton had said something. I started out on her side, but left when she became complicit in letting race fear win her votes.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:19AM | 0 recs
Hello?

Wait a minute; you have put the onus on WHITE people and the Onus on Hillary to be above the fray. Yet as a 'Typical' black person you have not addressed the alarming fact that Black community vastly votes on the color of skin when presented w/ a candidate in most cases (congressional) vs. content of their character.

You will continue to put the Marion barry's / the Kwame Fitzpatricks and that fella w/ his cash in the freezer ( I forget his name) into office with all their corruptions and felonies.

You will flaunt your African American intuitions, your black history month, your Black awareness weeks and yet blame the Whites for all your ill's .

I'm a non white/ non black/ non Latino immigrant citizen, yet I see how the sense of entitlement is always put forth by the blacks of this country.  I come from a 3rd world country and we are more patriotic as citizens of America / about America than you folks who have been here for generations.

We don't ask nor receive any handouts... I guess maybe that's why we appreciate this country and all it has to offer, if you work for it.

Fact is if you walk up a crowd of 100 black people and a crowd of 100 white people, seperately.

80% of Whites are very (as should be) welcoming of blacks and see them as equals.

80% of blacks are very racists towards whites.

I give you something as simple, perhaps a stupid as this analagy.  Black comedians always ridicule white people in their jokes. But a white stand up comic alamost never has one single black joke as his routine.
It's not the fact that they are comedians ( I understand that)... its the attitudes prevalent among blacks.

I still never understood or have from the 1st time I arrived to this country why you call yourselves African american. It would be bloody murder if whites called and refered to themsleves always as Anglo/european/ americans.  had white history month / had names like white advancement institutions

NO I say... I'm american.

by jayatl 2008-03-25 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Wait a minute; you have put the onus on WHITE people and the Onus on Hillary to be above the fray.

Of course! The racial divide is as much a problem for whites as it is for minorities. Black people, Latinos, etc. can't even begin to fix it alone. We need your help.

I still never understood or have from the 1st time I arrived to this country why you call yourselves African american.

I don't, this is what white people call us. I don't like "being a race" but it's not like I have a choice.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Huh the whites call you african american?  what!

How do i even begin to answer that. did I just wake up from a dream , where every balck politican, black media, black entity is called AFRICAN AMERICAN blah blah..

Again it's white who you lay this on?

by jayatl 2008-03-25 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Race continues to exist because both blacks and whites continue to recognize it. And white are the majority. Until white racism ends, there will always be "black people."

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Fact is if you walk up a crowd of 100 black people and a crowd of 100 white people, seperately.

80% of Whites are very (as should be) welcoming of blacks and see them as equals.

80% of blacks are very racists towards whites.

As I said above.. get off your pity party when your community is the true racists/ race card shouters in this country.

take it from me , an outsider of all the 3 races in majority in this country.

by jayatl 2008-03-25 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Why are you an "outsider" from the other races? Is it by choice, or is it because of racial constructs that are imposed on you?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

Stop parsing my words...it adds to the BS you are propogating on folks w/ your hidden agenda.

by jayatl 2008-03-25 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Hello?

What? What is my "agenda" ?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

According to a new poll, 47% of Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama should he get the nomination. Meanwhile, 40% of Obama's supporters will not vote for Clinton.

by zenful6219 2008-03-25 09:18AM | 0 recs
I don't know

I'm white, but in my experience black Americans have more sense than that, unlikely to be swayed by such punditry.

by techfidel 2008-03-25 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't know

Wanting respect...
... is not having "sense" --?

Huh?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

I can see that some blacks won't vote for Hillary, and will stay home, if she gets the nod.

But there are at least as many Reagan Democrats as blacks, and they present a even greater danger because many of them are likely to vote if Obama wins -- but vote for McCain instead, as many of them  have voted for Bush and Reagan in the past.

That actually gives them twice the power: not only do they deny the Democrat a vote, they give the vote to the Republican.

So that would most definitely be bad news.

by frankly0 2008-03-25 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

Okay, but what is the Democratic party really about?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

Yes, and approximately 75% of working class  whites have NO INTENTION of voting for Obama.

The same working class whites that are QUADRUPLE the size of the entire African-American community.

Do you understand the logic of your premise?

You are somehow scaring people that middle class blacks would abandon Clinton.

Hello??? Did it ever occur to you that Working Class whites who are Larger than the entire black community would abandon Obama.

by labanman 2008-03-25 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

This isn't about scaring--

It's about doing what's right and having respect for people. It's about: what kind of Democratic party do we want to be?

Do we want to pander to people's racist fears by making out black people to be evil? Is that any way to "win" ?

And if we do win that way what have we won?

In my book: nothing.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

Funny but wasnt it the BO campaign going around calling the Clinton's RACIST?  JJr "hillary cried in NH but did not shead one tear for Kitena?  What about the BO memo from David Alexlod saying to suggest the clinton are using race.  What about the 3 am ad is racist? What about saying "Oboma could win, his campaign is no fairtale" and then suggesting this was racist. What about dkos (the day after super Tuesday) posting the darkened clip story? I could go on and on and on.

Let me say BO campaign has pushed race since NH and now after Rev Wright we dont see his campaign doing this anymore.  I wonder why.

david

by giusd 2008-03-25 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

This isn't about Obama. This is about Clinton and her silence as media make a feast of Rev. Wright. Something that mostly worked to her benefit-- while stoking racial tensions between me and my white friends and family.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:40AM | 0 recs
Don't blame Clinton for your problems

or Obama's

by lombard 2008-03-25 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

You should be condemming Rev Wright, not trying to get Clinton to defend him.

Wright is poisening the minds of his black congregation. He is conditioning blacks to blame whitey for all their ills.

It is clear now why Michelle Obama has never been proud of America. She was listening to someone denegrate the US for the last twenty years.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

It's funny you say that he spends an awful lot of time talking about how people need to be more self-reliant and take responsibility for their actions.

Have you listed to more than just the sound bytes? I don't like his socialist leanings, but he's not a bad person. What has been done to him in media is so hurtful, not just to him but to all black people and to the black rhetorical tradition and black churches.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

??????Clinton and her silence?????

Are you serious.  You want Clinton to defend Rev Wright??????

david

by giusd 2008-03-25 08:01AM | 0 recs
You expect the Clintons

to defend Rev. Wright after the way he "rode dirty" on both of them? Are you out of your mind? Rev. Wright got ugly and deeply personal in his attacks on them. Has anyone apologized to the Clintons for Rev. Wright's remarks? Obama certainly hasn't. You cannot seriously expect Hillary to come to Wright's defense. You really need to ask yourself who is stoking the racial tensions here.

by Inky 2008-03-25 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: You expect the Clintons

This started long long long before he said that. By that point the line was already drawn. But, yeah I do expect more from the Clintons, than that. I expect more than bringing of Jesse Jackson out of the blue, I expect more than a 3am ad with a scary voice. I worked to put Hillary in the senate. At some level she is a good person-- but this is transparent.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: You expect the Clintons

Wright said that back in 2007, so you're mistaken about your chronology. And the business with race-baiting started long before the Jessie Jackson comment as well. Perhaps it started when jessie Jackson Jr. made the "Clinton never cried about Katrina" comment. It continued over the bogus and ginned up MLK/LBJ "slight." It was compounded by the deliberate misreading of Bill Clinton's "fairytale" comment. Bill Clinton screwed up when by bringing up Jesie Jackson's victory in S.C., but I still don't think he was deliberately "playing the race card." And Hillary has apologized, profusely, for her husband's S.C. gaffe. I find the Obama campaign's tactics equally transparent, so I guess we're at a stalemate. Don't vote for Clinton and I won't vote for Obama. See you in 2012.

by Inky 2008-03-25 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

And I am being very kind to you by not including the high estimate of Latinos & Asians who are expected to cross party lines if Obama is the nominee.

Don't ever go there!

This is one issue that Obama fans cannot win.

When you have majority of whites, Latinos, & Asians having preference for Clinton over Obama, you don't even want to go there.

When majority of 3 race groups are on one side against 1 group on the other, there is absolutely something that is not right.

You should ask Obama's campaign what they did to deserve this?

by labanman 2008-03-25 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

When an average of 65% of whites, 2 to 1 ratio of Latinos, 3 to 1 ratios of Asians are VOTING for Clinton, there is SOMETHING going on.

And I am talking about white, Latino, & Asian registered democrats.

Not some right wing conservative  wackos.

Remember that.

And the Wright issue has no doubt made it even worst.

by labanman 2008-03-25 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

It would be refreshing if these ethnic groups could bee seen as more than just numbers used to bolster one candidate or another.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

And by that I mean using inter-racial division and animosities to win is just wrong.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

That is exactly what Obama is doing. Hopefully you are merely a victim of black radicalism and the victimhood promoted by Obama and not a promoter of same yourself. If you are a promoter then shame on you as well.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to

This isn't about "winning."  

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

eh. You're missing the point. I'm not trying to say... "and this is why we must support Obama." Vote for the best person. I'm just letting you know what's going on with the black people I know and letting you know how this whole issue is hurting people. It's hurting people. Maybe there are not enough people for it to matter, but I still think that it is wrong.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

Future,

What we are experiencing in this Presidential race has NEVER happened in our political history.

At this point, do you think Clinton dropping out would automatically move whites, Latinos & Asians to Obama ?

Always remember, the Clintons have a two decade Track record since Arkansas with Blacks people & Latinos.

Obama cannot say the same about Whites, Latinos, & Asians.

You Earn respect & support. It cannot just be handed to you because you speak well & the politicians are annointing you as the savior.

by labanman 2008-03-25 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

Eh. I don't want clinton to drop out. I want her to say something that shows she rejects racism. That's all.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

By what?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

I'm not that invested in either candidate at this point. It's not about winning.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:09AM | 0 recs
She didn't use racial fears to win

I see why its in the interests of the Obama campaign to make the Clintons into racists.

White racists were always going to favor Clinton over Obama whether Clinton played the race card or not, but AAs were in play. They originally looked like they might split between Clinton and Obama, then something happened on the way to South Carolina.

Bill Clinton and Hillary made non-racist statements that were spun into racist statements by the Obama campaign. Comments like she didn't cry at Katrina were made by Obama surrogates and Obama didn't take the opportunity to say that the Clintons were not making racist statements.

Obama needed the black vote to win SC, without the near unanimous support of the black community Obama wouldn't be winning right now. And before anyone attacks me for saying that, there's nothing wrong with AAs getting behind Obama. His coalition is completely dependent on overwhelming black support, just like Clinton relies heavily on older white women. Obama's big win in SC was the result of the black vote moving totally to him.

He benefited from the allegations of racism made against the Clintons, do people think it was the Clintons stirring up the racial tensions? Before a primary where over 50% of the voters were black. Even if you defy history and believe the Clintons are racist, do you believe that they are so dumb that they would start playing the race card before a primary which was over 50% black?

The Clintons had far more to lose by playing the race card, the Obama campaign and parts of the media made it look like they did so a lot of AAs and white people were angry.

Does anyone have any evidence that Hillary is using racial fears to win?

And don't even try the LBJ comment as evidence.

by liberalj 2008-03-25 07:34AM | 0 recs
Quit blaming Clinton for Obama's mistakes

And why should she go out of her way campaigning to bail him out after the way his campaign has smeared her and her husband.

Get real.  Your statement illustrates another shade of the same racism uttered by Rev. Wright.  This is whitey's fault and whitey has to make it right.  Whitey's has all the duties and obligations.

by lombard 2008-03-25 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Quit blaming Clinton for Obama's mistakes

Rev. Wright isn't racist. He's been smeared.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:42AM | 0 recs
We know what we saw

You can rationalize this behavior all you want but you'll never change our minds.  Isn't this a wonderful national conversation about race?  Glad Obama thought it was so important to bring up.

by lombard 2008-03-25 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: We know what we saw

You saw sounds bytes in a rhetorical style you're probably not used to. It was very manipulative. There are radical blacks who are racist and who need to be denounced but Wright simply isn't one of them.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: We know what we saw

Oh, I'm plenty used to it, and you know what?  I refuse to listen to it.  I don't go to that kind of church anymore because overt racism is preached, and I won't have it...

by jarhead5536 2008-03-25 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: We know what we saw

How do you know it's racism, if you haven't even listened to it?

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: We know what we saw

I grew up with it, my mom and my brother still support it, I don't.  That attitude is, um, unhelpful, IMHO...

by jarhead5536 2008-03-25 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: We know what we saw

I can agree it's not helpful, but it's also not helpful to keep playing this stuf to activate white racism-- and that's what media are doing. IMNSHO.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:17AM | 0 recs
Middle class blacks

Any black person who thinks Hillary Clinton has done anything offensive is a jerk.

If someone is so dumb as to listen to wild eyed idiots like Wright and the other black bomb throwers who demean and denegrate Hillary Clinton as a racist then it is useles to do anything but to dismiss them.

They really are not worth listening to as they are irrational and not willing to listen themselves.

Respect, after all, goes both ways.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

If you think Wright is a "bomb thrower" then you don't know what you're talking about. I don't agree with his radical socialist ideas, but he's no more of a threat than Ralph Nader. The media have smeared him. And it's really sad.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

Did you see his maniacal rant against Hillary Clinton from the pulpit after she won the NH primary?

Don't tell me he wasn't throwing bombs.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

I thought that was pretty awful.

But the sound bytes they played were out of context and smeared this man. They didn't even play that part that much. Just the "God damn, America!" stuff-- and I listed to that one and it was TOTALLY out of context.

This is the issue.

He's a loud old racical man, but he's not the demon he's been made out to be in media.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

I think Hilary Clinton has done a lot that's offensive.  I am black and I'm not jerk.  I thought the whole shame on you Barack Obama thing was offensive for instance.  I thought the 3am ad was offensive.  I thought the whole meme that Barack Obama love Ronald Reagan was offensive.  

I thought Bill's Jesse Jackson shtick was a bit too clever.  He's a shrewed politician who in my opinion is too smart not to recognize the likely impact of his remark.

But those are my opinions.

by StrangeAnomaly 2008-03-25 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

As a white liberal who has supported affirmative action hiring and promotion policies, preferential admission policies, divirsity training etc and is proud of our liberal accomplishments in the area of racial equality I am outraged that the Obama campaign would make Hillary Clinton out to be racially divisive. If they can do it to her they can do it to me.

You ought to be asking Obama to apologize to Clinton for his pastors offensive and demeaning attacks on her as a person.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

As a white liberal?  I don't care if you supported affirmative action or not.  You just called every black person who found anything Clinton has done dumb jerk and irrational.  I suggest that you actually look at what you write.

by StrangeAnomaly 2008-03-25 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

I stand by my remarks.

It is not always whitey's fault you know. Divirsity training programs teach that respect goes both ways. It is about time that this lesson were learned by some blacks as it has been learned by whites.

by Caliman 2008-03-25 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks

I find this interesting, in the quest to regain so called Reagan democrats, you know the ones who bugged out because of a concern that the democrats were pandering to minority interests, the Clinton supporters believe that African American voters will simply step back and say okay.  I find that interesting, amusing even.  It's not going to happen.  The most loyal group of voters are unlikely to step aside "if" and the if is the important part, it is perceived that the democratic party was pushing toward a decision to attract voters who are simply not comfortable with African Americans.  Unless that perception is dealt with, there is no way on the earth that Hilary Clinton is going to get a lot of African American support.

Notice the trajectory of the argument now is that Obama is not electable because he scares working class whites because of Reverend Wright, that is the type of argument that will repel African American voters and is not a winning argument for someone who intends to win a general election.

by StrangeAnomaly 2008-03-25 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote for

Notice the trajectory of the argument now is that Obama is not electable because he scares working class whites because of Reverend Wright, that is the type of argument that will repel African American voters and is not a winning argument for someone who intends to win a general election.

There may be other ways Clinton could win. If she had gone the other way she could have split the black vote. Easily. It's a myth that black people vote just based on skin color.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 07:50AM | 0 recs
Oh, we're not?

Thanks for letting me know.  Whew, I was just about to go out and volunteer for her campaign, caught me in the nick of time!

Not...

by jarhead5536 2008-03-25 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote

I'm sick of this Clinton is a racist bullsh*t.

I won't be voting for your candidate Obama.  Why?  The pathetic way he has used the victimization card and the racist card.  I certainly don't want that kind of crap on Penn Ave.

by Sensible 2008-03-25 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Middle class blacks are not going to vote

I never said she was racist. I doubt she's racsit, it's about letting something go on for too long--

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:11AM | 0 recs
Hillary could have stopped this?

Neither Clinton nor Obama have been able to control their most wild eyed supporters for some time now.  Hillary is no more a racist than Barack is a sexist.  The hangers-on the the campaigns are another matter, unfortunately...

by jarhead5536 2008-03-25 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary could have stopped this?

Hillary is no more a racist than Barack is a sexist.

I can agree with that.

by futurebird 2008-03-25 08:26AM | 0 recs

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