what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

I  am trying to understand what she wants:

1. She obviously convinced that she is the better candidate (I agreed) and that Obama will lose to McCain (agreed again).

  • So one of her thoughts is simply if Dems want to lose (like RBC vote yesterday did show), they will nominate Obama.
  • It means that McCain will be the president and Clinton will say: I told you so.
  • And many of her supporters regardless of what she will do or say, will vote for McCain, if Obama nominated.
  • And than she will use national organization she built and national support she got in 2008 to run in 2012.

2. She can keep running until convention, because endorsement from Superdelegates means nothing until convention and Obama will not have 2118 before August, because Supers cannot cast their vote.

  • Meanwhile GOPs will swiftboat Obama, supers will switch to her and in addition she will seat all FL & MI delegates in accordance with their  vote.
  • she may want to restore normal 2210 magic number - good cause for it.

3. She can try harder right after June 3rd and try to convince Supers to endorse her and switch to her. It is the most aggressive and risky option, but she can do that with many good arguments:

  • no caucuses in November means almost all red states with caucuses won by Obama will go to McCain, so his advantage in delegates is misleading.
  • most states where Obama won because of black vote will go to McCain. In NC & MO she is currently beating McCain, but Obama losing; in MD McCain will lose anyway.
  • she has excellent chances in swing states, while Obama is very risky proposition there.

4. She can choose to run as independent, because in 3-way race she will win blue states like MA and McCain will win red states like Utah.

  • Most Hillary's supporters will support her if she will run as independent.
  • She will get Latino, white working, woman and senior votes for the same reason she got it in primaries.
  • Obama will have almost no chances in 3-way election, while Hillary will be very competitive, see this for example:
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/state_topline s/massachusetts/toplines_massachusetts_p residential_race_may_29_2008

Tags: clinton (all tags)

Comments

49 Comments

Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Option 5:  She could tunnel to the center of the Earth and command the army of the mole people to return to the overworld and assert citizenship rights for living under the territory of the US.  Since they met her first, they would unnaturally vote in her direction.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

meant naturally, not unnaturally.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Good stuff libertyleft. Funny and spot on.

by fugazi 2008-06-01 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Mole people are real Americans, like the hard-working whites and lobbyists.  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-01 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

your comment is a typical whining spam from dkos-like cancer cell

by engels 2008-06-01 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Replace "DKos" with "Hillaryis44", and that somes up your posting career here exactly.

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty accurate look at your own diary... but why the hell would you respond to your own diary that way? Why even write it?

by ragekage 2008-06-01 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

For someone who thinks Abraham Lincoln was a shitty president, I find your analysis lacking.

And she's not going to run as an Independent. She wont win, and the only thing it will do is to help usher in a John McCain presidency.

Which is what some of you DINO's what, apparently.

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Err, that should be want, instead of what.

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

what is good about Lincoln? He is the main reason why 1 millions Americans (3% of population at his time) died.

by engels 2008-06-01 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Heh. Guys, check this troll out, this is hillarious.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

So you're pro-Confederacy?

by davisb 2008-06-01 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

i am against killing people when you can achieve the same goal with much more peaceful and cheaper method

by engels 2008-06-01 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

So you think the Union could have been preserved via peaceful means once the South decided to revolt?  Or do you think it was a mistake for Lincoln to work toward stopping the spread of slavery in the first place?

by davisb 2008-06-01 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Ahhh yes. That damn War of Northern Agression. This is pure Ron Paul.

by fugazi 2008-06-01 07:52PM | 0 recs
Once again

engels brings the unintentional humor.  I think we should all give engels some money and he can post stuff like this 24-7.  It would be so funny.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

"i am against killing people when you can achieve the same goal with much more peaceful and cheaper method."

Me too. Which is a big reason why I supported Obama.

by fugazi 2008-06-01 07:55PM | 0 recs
Against violence

Sorry this has nothing to do with your diary. How do you morally square being against killing and Hillary's vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq? Just curious.

by jsfox 2008-06-01 08:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Against violence

I can answer this. The force resolution was filled with a lot of IF's before actually using force against Iraq. What the public didn't know and most of the Senators did know was that the military had devised a plan over 20 years (since the first Gulf War) that IF they needed to go in and take Sadam out, they could, in short, and leave Iraq in tact and with security in tact. Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush decided they had a better plan that the one devised by the military over 20 years and ignored the military plan even though the generals fought for it- Bush was the CIC in charge of the military.  

We can all agree Bush's plan wasn't about WMD's or saving the Iraqi's from Sadam, but about oil and occupation- but that wasn't in the force resolution and it was the alternate plan that has caused the death and destruction and chaos.

We can all agree that without seeing the falsified evidence against Sadam we could see no reason to attack Iraq, just as Obama never saw the classified documents as a State Senator (not privy to classified national documents, foreign policy or national security) and we have no idea how he would have voted if he had. YET...right before we attacked the polls showed 80% of the people in the US were for the attack...yes in part because it changed from an act of war to a humanitarian effort (which many people bought into). (5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months at most)

So my personal feeling- even though I thought the war was wrong (and the Afghanistan war was wrong)before the first bomb this is Bushco's war- his and his alone and should stay Bushco's war and the shame and destruction his own.

by Justwords 2008-06-01 10:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Against violence

I see your point however, there is one caveat. There were senators who did read the Intelligence Brief and came away saying this is stupid and voted against the force resolution.  My sense is that Senator Clinton got sucked into the drum beats of war. Also she, like many Democrats falsely believed they needed to look tougher on National Security for purely political reasons rather than moral ones. I am neither condemning nor condoning merely stating an opinion.

And my question how does Engle morally square her decision with his position of being against violence. I was looking for his position not hers and not yours.

by jsfox 2008-06-02 04:16AM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

There was nothing peaceful about slavery.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-01 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

So naturally you support Hillary Clinton (D-Bellicosity).

Makes sense to me!  Lieberman-Kyl......AUMF......

Nevermind.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-01 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

This argument sounds a lot like ones offered by Ron Paul supporters...

by SevenStrings 2008-06-01 08:45PM | 0 recs
engels you are killing me

I didn't know any one could be so funny...

I bet I know who you think is a good president, Harding.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 07:40PM | 0 recs
I don't know why I'm indulging this, but here goes

If it wasn't for Abraham Lincoln we might not have been a "United States" for as long as we have been, and might not be one today.

If it wasn't for Abraham Lincoln, slavery would of continued to exist, and may have still of existed today. Furthermore any civil rights advancements we have made may have been pushed back, depending on when slavery was finally abolished.

If it wasn't for Abraham Lincoln, neither Barack Obama, or Hillary Clinton would of had the chance to be running for president right now.

So yeah, with that said, I guess he was a shitty president.

/snark

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Umm no. The main reason why so many Americans died is that a gang of traitor slaveholders decided to hijack their states and take them out of the Union.

Are you a neo-Confederate?

by elrod 2008-06-01 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary
  • slavery was not economically viable and it was destined to self-destruct (without civil war) in 1860-1880 period and without killing a lot of people.
  • southern states needed union states much more than union states need them. so result without civil war would be the same and much less violent
by engels 2008-06-02 12:14AM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

She obviously convinced [...] that Obama will lose to McCain (agreed again).

by mistersite 2008-06-01 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Obama is the sexist for sure: "hold-on sweetie."

by engels 2008-06-01 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Huh?

In what way is that germane to my comment?

by mistersite 2008-06-01 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Don't expect anything like germane responses from engels. S/he is one of those bad actors trying to wreck MyDD.

by PhilFR 2008-06-01 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Engels is HANDS DOWN my favorite poster on MyDD.  He never fails to deliver the goods.

Straight guffaws.

by Jess81 2008-06-01 08:15PM | 0 recs
I know it is so funny

I stopped taking engels seriously and it is so great, no a certain poster who shares a handle with a Brazillian city (well the second half of the city) reminds me more of Veronica Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 09:00PM | 0 recs
Gool ol engels

you always provide a laugh...

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

If I put myself in her shoes, I think of my options more like this:

(1) Use the leverage I've built to get concessions from party elders, and with that support, refocus on building a legacy through my Senate career.  I'm concerned about going back to work with people that have stabbed my back, but I have a history of working with adversaries and can do it again.  I want to be the author of the healthcare bill.

(2) Use the leverage I've built to get concessions from Obama, meaning either a VP or cabinet level position.  I believe that I hold the keys to party unity, and that taking me as his VP is the best thing Obama can do to unify and win in November.

(3) I have nearly half the delegates needed to win.  It's close, and nobody votes until Denver.  I can lie in wait, with Obama the presumptive nominee, and after he has been swift-boated for a month or two, I might start looking pretty good to these supers after all.  This runs the risk of burning bridges on nearly all sides, but also carries the greatest prize.

(4) I can step down gracefully, and remain poised for a 2012 or 2016 bid, if I really want to go through all this again.

She is far too loyal to her party to consider an Independent bid, despite their maltreatment of her.

by bobbank 2008-06-01 07:30PM | 0 recs
NIce analysis

That is why I think you are rational.  Which do you think is most likely bob?

I am thinking 1 then 2 then 4 then 3, but that is my take on this.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: NIce analysis

I feel like I would have to know her personally to know which is most likely.  I really have no idea.  My sense is 1 or 3, but I'm purely guessing.

by bobbank 2008-06-02 04:34AM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Diary is great and so are your suggestions....

If she does agree and become VP....

Can she still hold the option open of #3...Denver - realizing that even though she may be the VP...sh*t happens....and she could still (somehow) get the nomination....

If BO picked someone else as his VP - what does that do to HER delegates if something on HIM shows up by Denver?

by nikkid 2008-06-01 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Hey, uh, the number's not 2210. Even the Clinton campaign recognizes that.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

I don't think she would accept a VP spot or wants any position in the administration. She likes her job as a Senator and I think would resume her Senate career.

My guess is she will 'suspend' not concede. Make a 'unity speech' about Obama being a better choice than McCain and her supporters should vote for him, then I hope she takes a nice long vacation out of the public eye and after the convention she would campaign for Obama if he is still standing. She is such a trooper and a loyal democrat that she would probably forgo a vacation and campaign for him, but she needs a vacation, Obama already took one.

by Justwords 2008-06-01 10:13PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

Uhh, why'd you link us that Rasmussen article? It says things like:

12* Which candidate would do better against John McCain in the general election...Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton?

49% Obama
41% Clinton

Dude, this guy is a pathetic excuse for a McBlogger. Yeesh.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

If she wants to run as an independent/third party, she better get to work, because she has less than two months to get the signatures needed in most states (some deadlines have already passed):

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/s tory?id=140388

by davisb 2008-06-01 07:32PM | 0 recs
Hillarious

Per my diary yesterday, however, I will let this pass - even though I don't think engels is a serious Hillary Democrat.

by elrod 2008-06-01 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

It really gets harder and harder to tell whether diarists here are being intentionally ironic. Maybe that's why I keep coming here. You just don't know!

by fugazi 2008-06-01 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

HRC has already gone on record as saying that Obama can indeed win.  Ickes reasserted that today.  It's awfully hard to run as the 'I told you so candidate' without acquiring the whiff of spoiler.  Running as a future 'I told you so' will appear to too many people as 'she made it so.'  I think she's smarter than that, until proven otherwise...

by Strummerson 2008-06-01 08:16PM | 0 recs
Hm.

1: She and her supporters would be blamed for any loss. Not only would her Presidential aspirations be over she'd be marginalized in the Senate.

2: She'd be ignored and eventually ridiculed. Or, if she succeeded at the convention, she'd lose in the general and then be ridiculed and ignored.

3: Supers know the rules and know that not only was the playing field level but that she had an advantage.

4: Rapid marginalization and loss of legacy occurs faster than it will if 1 or 2 is followed.

How about just conceding and making sure her supporters vote for Obama like any reasonable person would do?

by heresjohnny 2008-06-01 08:35PM | 0 recs
All these comments

suggesting that Hillary take actions both detrimental to her, but more importantly to the party's chances in Nov.  Anybody remember the phrase "Agent Provocateur"?

There is a ancient Roman Phrase "Cui Bono", it means who benefits.  Now lets ask ourselves, who benefits from all this turmoil in the party.

by xenontab 2008-06-01 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: what on her mind: 4 options for Hillary

No caucuses in November means almost all red states with caucuses won by Obama will go to McCain, so his advantage in delegates is misleading.

This has to rank as one of the more incoherent takes on the nominating process I've read lately. Thanks for sharing though.

by animated 2008-06-01 09:01PM | 0 recs
caucuses are fraud

i went to one myself. And we have prove from TX, WA, NE

by engels 2008-06-02 12:45AM | 0 recs

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