She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

All over the blogosphere I am seeing stories about how it's all over, "she" has lost.  There is no way for her to win.  The math, the math.  It's been over for weeks.  Well, you get the picture.
Then the denigrating and downgrading and Clinton hating takes over.  Who will tell Hillary?  Who is brave enough to tell Bill and Hillary that it's over?  It's been over for weeks but she just doesn't realize it.  Even her campaign says she only has a 10% chance of winning , so why does she keep running.
More after the break.
Do people seriously believe that two of the best retail politicians of the last half century can't see what is front of them?  That they are just too deluded and basically too damn dumb to see the handwriting on the wall?  Let's tone down the Clinton hate and the schadenfreude(sp?) and see what's really going on here.
Hillary did indeed make a tactical mistake (caucuses) which has cost her the lead and now finally the nomination.  Obama has done a wonderful job to get where he is.  That being said, she is the second most popular politician in the Democratic Party.  All the whining and griping in the world won't change that.  She has a claim on the VP nomination based on her showing in the primaries and Obama needs to acknowledge this simple fact.
The Clinton campaign continues; imo, because she is working the refs to get the VP job.  This is one of the reasons that I reluctantly support Hillary at this point.  I think she wants the VP and deserves it and she can't get Obama to offer it without the pressure of continued campaigning.  On the flip side, I think Obama probably wants to pick his own VP and thats why he has refused to do the political thing and do a deal with Hillary.
If Obama were to offer the VP to her and she were to refuse it, the remaining rationale for a Clinton campaign disappears, at least for me.  My take on realpolitick for the week.

Tags: Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Primaries (all tags)



I don't think either wants the VP spot

If Obama were actually thinking about it then I think you would've seen/heard he or his surrogates bring it up, much the same way that Bill and Hillary toyed with the idea of having Obama as a VP a couple of weeks ago. Whenever anyone even mentions it, it seems like Obama tries very hard to swat it down. Now, I understand that some of that is b/c he doesn't want to feed into this idea that he should be junior to Hillary, but I think another part of him rejects it because he thinks its crazy for the person who is in the lead to be offered VP. Many news reporters/analysts have pointed out repeatedly that they apparently don't like each other very much. I think Hillary thinks he is an upstart standing in the way of the more qualified/experienced candidate, and that he hasn't "paid his dues." He probably thinks that the Clinton's are patronizing and that they are simply not trustworthy, and therefore cannot win a general election.  

Secondly, even more important than the idea that they don't like each other, IMO they can't choose each other (Especially Obama choosing Hillary for VP), b/c each of them severely undermines the other's candidacy. Hillary cannot argue with a straight face, that Obama will transform from the guy who brings "a speech from 2002" to a tried and competent commander in chief, just by running as VP under her wings for 3 months. Obama on the other hand cannot argue he is bringing change and rooting out special interests by bringing that pernicious influence back into the White House.

by highgrade 2008-03-22 06:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think either wants the VP spot

LOL rooting out special interests?  Boy are you uninformed about your candidate.  Obama is full of special interests.  How about those Union endorsements, that is a special interest.  How about the nuclear industry, one of his big backers, or the financial sector, they just love him.  Obama is a fake package.  He is not against special interests, he just has different special interests than republicans do, but he has them.  You might even say he has a big special interest group, AAs are a big special interest he has.

by democrat voter 2008-03-22 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think either wants the VP spot

Agreed with everything you say.

I also take issue with the idea that "they don't like eachother".  Seemed like Obama liked her just fine when he asked her to be his mentor when he jumped into the Senate waters.  But now since she's that PESKY OBSTACLE to his nomination, he's pulling all sorts of dirty, backstabbing tricks.  She, however, has shown grace towards him all of this time (proof:  Watch the end of the debate in Texas and the debate in how the delivery of "I'm honored to be here with..." was made by each of them and you tell me who looks sincere about it).

by BrandingIron17 2008-03-22 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think either wants the VP spot

Actually Clinton shows much grace under fire.  Look at those MSMs, they are dogs, all of them couldn't lick the boots of either Bill or Hillary Clinton, but they are just rabid nonetheless.  Still, even with all this bad press, she has shown remarkable grace and stamina.  These upcoming contests will show that she still has strength.

 Even with the pile on, she will show these press dogs, who can still get the votes.  They attack her because they are small people with an agenda.  But down scale blue dog democrats and women will not desert her.  Those people are not listening to the blogsasphere.  I know people think it is all that, but actually?  Not so much.  Most of these voters are not blogging.  They are not watching MSNBC 24/7 and they don't' care much for other people telling them how they should feel about race let alone a whole host of other issues.  They will not be dictated to by the far left liberals.

 Clinton knows this electorate.  Both Bill and Hillary do know what they are doing even though Obama has engineered this coup because the far left liberals have never liked or respected the Clintons.  Still it is the Clintons that keep winning elections, and that has them so upset, but all this blog talk?  Doesn't make a damned bit of difference, and in fact is only hardening the feelings of these voters.  Obama is losing them by his tactics, and the MSM are doing him no favors.

When these voters do see these pundits flapping their jaws, especially those black commentators who constantly demand respect for their guy and trash Clinton with such venom, it only hardens the hearts of these voters.  Believe me when I say that things like that black comedian on SNL saying "Bitch may be the new black, but black is the new president, bitch"  has a very different ring to these voters, who are affected by that stuff with a visceral dislike.  These voters do not much care for the arrogance of these commentators.  In fact, women who are hearing this constant sexist commentary will react by supporting Hillary all the more.  

This kind of thing will in the end cost Obama this election.  If he gets the nomination, he cannot win the GE.  He should be grateful for Clinton because she is providing these voters with an outlet for their feelings now.  That could take some of the sting out of the bad feelings Obama is getting from these voters, but if these contests are truncated and they do not get the chance to voice their preference, then they will show that preference by voting for McCain this fall.  They do not have such an aversion to McCain as the blogasphere has, in fact they seem to like McCain and do not see him as a threat but they may see Obama as one.

by democrat voter 2008-03-22 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think either wants the VP spot

Unions are special interests?

My, and do you consider yourself a Democrat?

by politicsmatters 2008-03-22 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think either wants the VP spot

I just love how these O supporters seem to know nothing about politics.  Many politicians don't like each other.  They all have big egos, and that is why the senate is like herding cats.

Moreover, Kennedy couldn't stand Johnson, but unlike Obama, Kennedy knew he needed Johnson and so he offered the VP to him, and he accepted.  Now Obama thinks he is all that, but the American electorate will never chose him not by his lonesome, they won't.  

This passionate support is not broad support.  He can and will lose this thing in the fall.  He needs Clinton, and not the other way around, you are mistaken here.  With the support O has thus far, he will lose and if he cannot bring the base of the party to him, he will lose this fall.  So far, Obama hasn't shown the strength he would need to get those people to vote for him.  I am sure you love him, but that is just not enough.  Look inside the numbers, if Obama were going to be able to carry this off he would have had to win those big democratic strongholds, but he lost them by 10 points.  This is a loser for sure this fall.  He just cannot win without the democratic base.  You may not like this fact but it is a reality.  It is already in the votes.  Look at Ohio, watch the Penn. vote, see how he does in Ky and In.  These states will show that O cannot possibly win.  His appeal is already at a peak. Movements do not win elections.  I have seen this movie before.  For the democrats to win they must win these down scale blue dog democrats, it is the only way for them to win, and so far, Obama does not appeal to them.

by democrat voter 2008-03-22 06:41AM | 0 recs
Correction: She's the first most popular person

in the Democratic Party.

Frankly, I don't think she wants the Vice Presidency.  I hope Hillary goes back to the Senate if she loses the nomination.  Congress can't initiate foreign policy, but it has just as much say in domestic policy as the White House.  Hillary could easily advance her signature domestic policy issues from a position in the Senate.  More importantly, Clinton could redress the power imbalance that has developed between the White House and the Congress over the last couple of decades.

by dbrown04 2008-03-22 06:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Correction: She's the first most popular perso

Especially since McCain will be the president we will need someone to hold him accountable unlike congress has so far failed to hold Bush accountable.

With the likes of Pelosi who took impeachment off the table when this president should have been impeached even if the Senate would not have convicted him, they should have done what they could do, and for that failure, we have only Pelosi to blame.  She is a weak Speaker because of this, she is unable to hold Bush to account for anything.  I sincerely hope she improves when she has to deal with McCain, because if the dems select Obama, we will surely see McCain as president.  i just hate that, but it is already apparent this could happen, Obama just has not shown any strength with the base of the party.  Without strong support from the base, who are still supporting Hillary, Obama has no chance to actually become president, which is what he is trying to do, but without Hillary, who brings the base with her, Obama cannot win.

by democrat voter 2008-03-22 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

The problem with your analysis is that this race is far from over.  The screaming from the O supporters just proves it.  They don't want people to see the weakness in their chosen ONE, but Clinton owes it to our party to show this weakness for all to see.  Obama cannot win the GE, there is already ample evidence.  These next contests will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he cannot win.  It is important for her to illustrate this to the party.  

The far left liberals think they have manufactured this thing to count her out, but the actual voters have a different idea.  That idea needs expression.  If she were to quit, then they would have no outlet for their votes and that fact would spell disaster for Obama.  If the DNC continues its refusal to seat the delegates from Mich and Fl they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.  O cannot win Fl with that mistake.  I know the O supporters think they have this all sown up.  If they really thought so, why would they be wanting this race to be over already?  Because they don't want people to see O weakness, but it will show up, either now or this fall.  It would be better we know it now than this fall.  If the party thinks he is a winner, they will make the same mistake that Richardson did, thinking that passion from a few people is a good indication of the masses.  It isn't . The vote in these remaining states will in the end show the party O continued weakness for the fall.  The voters have already spoken in FL.  If they think by not counting those delegates that O wins with this tactic, he will be illegitimate and that fact alone will cause him to lose.  This contest must go to the remaining states.  Clinton knows this electorate far better than these far left liberals who always misjudge America by their far left position and lights.  They do not realize this country is not so far left and will never elect this man as president.  Clinton must show this to the SDs.  She needs to shove this home and down the throats of the party and if after the final contests they don't see it, it is because they wish to self distruct.  We cannot be dictated to by a few party elites who never have won national elections.  Even with all the blacks and liberals in this country, it is not enough to win a national election. Clinton knows this fact.  So let these remaining contests go on, it is the only way for these idiots to see, to have their heart opened and spilled on the ground.  That way they will see their candidate is flawed and basically unelectable.  Clinton is doing our party a favor and I want her to keep on doing it.  I have faith she will, and as for VP, the only way Obama will ever see the WH is if he is VP for 8 years.  It is the only way this country will ever put him in the WH.  He would have to prove himself much more than he has to this point before the base of this party will vote for him.  Right now, we do know the truth, Obama is flawed and so full of his own ego he can't see it, and those around him are filling him with nonsense.  he cannot win a general election.  he will not win.

by democrat voter 2008-03-22 06:22AM | 0 recs
Re: She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

I especially like it how Obama supporters seem so hurried to call the race over when there are states that haven't voted and in some of those important states (i.e., states with big pots of delegate gold), Obama is trailing badly in the polls.

These little Obama supporters were in diapers and running Big Wheels when Bill was running for Prez and there was no internets to make things go faster, and there was no rush to declare the winner.  They probably just don't even know how it took Bill forever to capture the nom because he was being vetted just as the rest of his field was also being vetted plus Ross Perot was jumping into the race by June.

by BrandingIron17 2008-03-22 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

Forty states have voted, only ten remain.  Just saying....

by politicsmatters 2008-03-22 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

If I were Obama, I wouldn't want Hillary as my VP.  She and Bill have their own agendas and might not do well as members of Obama's team.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-22 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: She really ISN'T dumb as a brick

I don't know if Clinton has this trait, but even smart people can fool themselves about the odds of achieving something that they really really want.

by thezzyzx 2008-03-22 08:28AM | 0 recs


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