I haven't been around here much lately, but I heard you had a diary up. Thank you for posting this. As we have "discussed" before, we may have made different decisions about who to support, but we both agree on the basics of democracy. Thanks for speaking up in support of that!
Thanks Linfar - I have no problem listening to your point of you although I I don't agree with it now and may not agree with it ever, but I appreciate the open door. ; ) I just wish some of the people at this site were as reasonable as you are. Did you see that I was hide-rated for this comment?
I know where you are coming from, but why is it so hard for you to see why catfish and I are doing what we are doing? The only reason that I can think of is that you so fervently believe in the justness of your cause. My own particular belief is that I think Hillary is doing what she needs to do. Not only do I not think that she expects that all of her supporters will flock to Obama's side, but I quite frankly think that at least part of her hopes we will not.
Go back and look again at my diary "I Miss Linfar!" In that, I wrote
You may not like what Linfar has to say, but as Democrats/Liberals/Progressives you should all be willing to listen to her. Disagree loudly if you must, but don't push out people with opinions who are different than yours. We all lose when that happens.
The political system in this Country works best when we each are allowed and encouraged to take our own path to the future that we want. That is what democracy is all about.
Wow, what an unwarranted smear that is! We are "dedicated to trashing" her judgment? I feel really badly that you only see one point of view. As I said earlier in a different way, the people who are at these sites by and large devoted to two things, seeing Hillary Clinton become President some day, and the well-being of our Country.
Although there are some Clinton supporters who are happy to change their allegiance to the presumptive Democratic nominee, as is usually the case, there are a large number of Clinton supporters who also do not like Barack Obama. I can tell you that even if Clinton had not been in this race, I would not have supported this man. Many of us not only believe that he is not a good candidate for the general election (if that were the only issue I would work hard to get him elected) but that he would be a BAD PRESIDENT!
It does not follow that working against Obama equates with trashing Hillary.
Hillary Clinton is doing what she has to do. She can urge her supporters all she wants to support Obama, but she knows that she can't compel that from us (Quite frankly, Hillary does not seem like the kind of woman who gets pushed around either)
I believe that a good number of Obama's current supporters, and in particular, the ones who like to cry out that anyone who does not go along with them are not Democrats, are not only short-sighted while looking toward the future, but are equally handicapped when looking at and evaluating past history with their revisionist lenses.
The sad fact is that independent thinking is no longer valued. The mantra of the day is "go along to get along." Well, that is not the way I was raised to be, and I am sure not going to start thinking that way now.
Hey psychodrew, I am sorry that you went in a different direction than I did, but as I said to Linfar, I know you are doing it because you think it is the best, and it does not diminish my respect for you.
First, I have stated that I support McCain because I oppose Obama. It may not be your logic, but it is mine. Don't impute evil intent where there is none.
Second, with regard to being a Democrat, I don't have an obligation to stay on that sinking ship. That does not mean I do not support Democratic ideals, and that does not mean I am a Republican. I will be supporting all the Democratic candidates that are down-ticket.
Third, calling me an enemy shows what a low sort of person you are, and makes me sorry I visited to make what I thought was a calm statement to Linfar. The way I see it, your inability to even consider that a point of view other than yours exists, demonstates that you are not a person who thinks very much or very deeply.
Notwithstanding the support of people like Psychodrew and Linfar for Obama, when I think that you are an example of many of the people on Obama's team, it makes even clearer to me that I don't want to be on your team.I
I have a lot of respect for you and I love your writing, but I respectfully have to disagree with you here, and with many of the comments supporting your diary (which is beautifully written and which I will still recommend because I respect your opinion).
You can count me among those loyal Hillary voters who will be supporting McCain this fall if Obama is the nominee. (Before anyone jumps all over me, I agree that is the most likely case - but you never know what will happen, and I still hold out hope, however slight it is).
You need to realize there are two components to my position. First, my absolute respect and admiration for Hillary Clinton, and my belief that she would be the best President of my life-time; and second, the fact that I believe that Barack Obama has the potential to be worse than George II for a whole lot of reasons. I know that back in the day when we were on the same team, you didn't like or support him any more than I did.
The fact that I am choosing to support McCain over Obama does not mean that I do not respect Hillary, because I do. That respect, however, does not require that I support or agree with everything she says or does. In this particular instance, I believe that McCain is the best short-term choice for President this Country has, despite the fact that I have significant disagreements with him on some issues. There are some issues that I agree with him on, and there are others, that do not seem so significant to me this election cycle.
I do believe in the ideals of the Democratic Party as I knew them to be for most of my life, but I have no loyalty to the Party as an entity. When I believe that the Party no longer represents me, that is when I am no longer a member of that Party. My loyalty to this Country, however, is undying.
I think that the Party has gone in the wrong direction this year and has basically spit in the face of about one half of its members. I believe that Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi have not served the Party in good stead and that their goals for personal power have dictated the turn the Party has taken more than there interest in the National good. To say it plainly, they have succumbed to the lust for power.
You, and many others here may not have liked the direction Alegre has gone in, and I remind you that it was made plain and clear to many of us that our views were not welcome to be expressed if it did not comport with the goal of "party unity." You may not like it that many of us not only will not be supporting Obama but will be supporting another candidate. That is okay because you are entitled to your point of view. I have always said that and I will always believe that.
Nevertheless, I think you went too far when you conclude that we are dishonoring Hillary and when you said:
I think, `they are not helping her.' They don't really care about her. She isn't a person to them. She is a business, a cause, a means to drive traffic to a website. She is a claim to fame."
That is so far from the truth. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I can tell you that most of us, like me, are acting in good faith and believe that we are doing the best we can to advance Democratic ideals, in the long run, and to advance the possibility of Hillary Clinton becoming President, if not now, then in 2012.
So basically, we have taken two paths. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe that you are doing what you think is best for this Country and is what Hillary would want. I ask you to give the same benefit of the doubt to me, and to others that used to be on the same team with you. After all, aren't we still on the same team? We are all Americans after all, and we have the right, indeed the obligation to exercise our best and freest thought, speech and judgment to help keep America strong and free.