This is Sad

Fox News is carrying a video, which I will not post in order to not further... The video shows Rev. Wright expressing opinions, in his own Church, which are typical of African Theology.  I'm asking that if anybody has media contacts they send them to me a BGRANT@Princeton.edu so I can plead with them not to further this story tomorrow.  Please MyDD help me not throw a vibrant academic and theological tradition down the drain for the sake of a campaign.  To many good people have already payed to much in loss of respect and standing for this campaign.  Here is what I would like to send them.  

To Whomever,

I generally find the commentary fair and informed.  A story is coming up about Obama's pastor from Fox News... and as a scholar in religion and politics I implore you not to further it for the following reasons.    

A).  We cannot hold our political leaders accountable for their spiritual leader's remarks.  Just taking a quick glance into History finds the trouble in doing this.  Often a person does not choose the church they go to, their spouse does, or it is the church they are raised in.  It is not, usually, a political choice.  It is of the most personal of choices.  That is not right.

B).  You and I cannot understand what it means to be a Black Christian in America.  This line of thought expressed in Countee Cullen, James Cone, and even in Cornell West's most outspoken moments is terribly important academically.  And, I fear if the media blows this up that conversation will be stigmatized... for the sake of a political campaign?  That is not right.

C.  Jeremiah Wright is no longer pastor of that Church.  A Church which is one of the most important Black Churches in America.  If it gives you and idea of how important this Church is, it is the Chicago version of N.Y.'s Abyssinian Baptists.  And, this Church has been preaching these themes for decades.

I understand the attraction and Responsibility to report the news. But, too much is at stake here.  I've written similar defenses toward people's questions on Hillary even being religious.  Wright is not on Obama's finance team, or a senior consultant, he is the pastor of what I believe was Michelle's Church.  This sermon is likely racists to your ears, and many others ears, but that is really to be ignorant to the conversation Jeremiah Wright is, and has, engaged in.  Wright is speaking to a Church steeped chiefly in Cone, Katie Canon, Copeland, and West - where this is acceptable language.  He is not being literal in suggesting "Christ was a Black Man," nor is he intending to be exclusive.  Your right about the irrelevance about his standing in the Church.  The truth us, he is one of the most respected Black Theologians in the country, and widely respected (with and for numerous comments like these) at the leading theological schools in the country.  I just suggest before (likely joining the rest of the media ignorance) you read Cone's God of the Oppressed or an article surrounding it.  In order that you understand what Wright was saying in the context of a black and womanists theological conversation... if the media blows this up it will blow up (wrongly) a long standing theological conversation - it will destroy Cornell West, Cannon, and others.  I ask that you take hold of your actions, even if it means not going along with the rest of media, and not report on what any persons church says.  Can you imagine the shame if anybody were called to "reject and denounce" their Church?

Thank you,
BGrant@Princeton.edu

Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

Comments

91 Comments

I don't watch FAUX,
so I don't know exactly what you're talking about. What did he say that was so controversial?

By the way, what's wrong with saying, "Christ was a black man," and meaning it literally? Isn't there some speculation that he was? (I'm not religious, so I'm really not sure, but I thought this argument had been raised.)

by sricki 2008-03-12 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't watch FAUX,

Not the historical Jesus (some may argue that)...but Black Theologians state that he was in very much the same place as African American... I'm actually not very religious, just value the conversation.

You can Watch the Video here -
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't watch FAUX,

Barack Obama called Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright his "moral compass."

   Obama says that rather than advising him on strategy, Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated.

   "What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice," Obama said. "He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."

The same spiritual mentor who said:

   "Fact number three: America is still the number one killer in the world.

   We invaded Grenada for no other reason than to get Maurice Bishop. We destroyed Panama because Noriega would no longer dance to our tune anymore.

   We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training professional killers.

   We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children, while trying to turn public opinion against Castro and Qaddafi.

   Fact number four: we put Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there.

   We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority. And believe it more than we believe in God.

   Fact number five: we supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians, and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic."

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-13 06:06AM | 0 recs
I'm sorry, but
I will not go out of my way to defend someone who talks about Monica Lewinsky and makes obscene hip movements at the pulpit. I would be embarrassed to go to this man's defense. Talking about how the only Democratic president in my lifetime RODE an intern (and dirty, no less) is not part of black theology. If this man is Obama's "moral compass", then god help us. No wonder Michelle has made such rude, insensitive, uncalled-for remarks about Hillary. She's been listening to her minister.

For the record, none of this is "private". Wright himself obviously doesn't want this to be private. It isn't as if a Fox News correspondent snuck into the church and taped these sermons. These sermons are being sold online, are they not? Wright wants people to see this. As far as I'm concerned, Faux obtained this footage fair and square. As a Hillary supporter, I see no reason to use it against Obama, but I also see no reason to defend it. Best to leave it alone altogether and let people draw their own conclusions.

Hillary Clinton has never been called a "nigger", but Barack Obama has never been called a thick-ankled cunt, either. They have each been attacked because of their race/gender. Racism is not the only form of bigotry.

I'm not sure, but I think I heard the IRS is displeased with this church for stumping for Obama at the pulpit.

by sricki 2008-03-13 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't watch FAUX,

I can empathize with some of what Rev. Wright said, though Jesus chose poverty, he was not born into it. Jesus choses to be the least among us.

Rev. Wright's parallel of Obama with Jesus is way overdone, and frankly offensive to me as a believing Christian. Obama is an intelligent and accomplished man, but he is also extraordinarily ambitious and he has a driving interest in power, that is not following the example of Jesus.

The real problem with Rev. Wright's sermon, though, is the vicious and racist attack on Hillary Clinton.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't watch FAUX,

I don't think, as someone pretty steeped in Black Theology, Obama or Clinton are the points... It is what it is like to Black in America that is the point.  He is not intending to deify Obama, yet identify Christ with A.A.'s and thus his language includes Obama.

I wish we had the entire sermon - but once you read Cone, Cannon, Cullen, and others you really get a since for what he is saying.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

The poster is referring to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPjVp3PLn Vs

Its bad. This guy has been Obama's spiritual mentor and pastor for 20 years. Fox has already been running it...the story has already broken.

by Scan 2008-03-12 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

It is only bad because of media ignorance of Black Theology... This is going to be really hurtful, probably not to Obama, but to the doctrine.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:42PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Have you seen the Monica portion of the video linked above? With the hip gyrations? Can you explain to me how that is part of black theology? I have studied theology and I cannot find a point in it. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:03PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

It is about providing a "prophetic" social commentary...but you are right, that is not really good to hear from the pulpit... However, it is not unusual, theologically wrong, or racist.  Theology, in a lot of Black Churches, is not a series of non-debatable statements of belief (as it is in many White Churches), yet a commentary on existence.  Christ is very much a partner in existence, and a lot of pastors feel it there duty to reveal inequality (and often through humor)... In my view he crossed a line... But, unlike white Churches, people really don't necessarily take as-is everything from whomever is in the Pulpit.  It would be wrong, however, to ask Obama to denounce his pastor outright.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:14PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

If Obama cannot even slightly distance himself from this and make it clear it is not what he believes then he should not be running to be president of the entire country.

He wants people to move beyond racial politics then he must also move beyond racial politics, which means not only denouncing racism in people who oppose of but in our friends and advisors as well.

He cannot deride Ferraro, Clinton and every one else and then been seen to condone, or even share, these beliefs. Do you not see how many voters could be offended? Especially given what has been said and what has gone on the last few days?

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:18PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

He's said long ago, that he doesn't agree with everything Wright says, that he's like that Unlce in the family who says things sometimes.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:19PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Well he already distanced himself.  But I do not think people should have to be apologist for there Pastors.  However, a member of your campaign be it Ferraro or Power, is a different matter.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:34PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

So what should people do?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 09:43PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Well I'm trying to email every reporter I can find...hopefully my academic standing carries some currency, but I'm doubtful... It is rare that I wade into politics academically... Ben Smith did send me a very nice email in return.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

What should we do?

We should vote for the other democrat in the race because this sort of thing will create a landslide for McCain if Obama is the nominee. I'm just telling you the truth.

by Scan 2008-03-12 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Huh, and if we also feel that all the Clinton stuff will do the same thing when stacked up against an "honest" straight talker? What then, write in Edwards?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:09PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

20 years? That does provide some insight into why Obama has chosen racially divisive attacks as a strategy. I thought Obama's tactics were purely mercenary, but this kind of sermon gives them an intellectual justification. Maybe Obama actually feels he is being righteous, rather than self-serving, when he implies that people like Bill and Hillary Clinton are racist.

If that is the case then Obama has a very dangerous blind spot.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

By that same token given the UMC's stance on Homosexuality its not too suprising that Bill threw gays under the bus, I mean he views them as damned sinners anyway.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:26PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

To be technical I believe Bill goes to Baptists Churches and Hillary goes to UMC - but the context is completely different than Obama's church.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I thought he might be SBC, but I didn't want ot attribute his dalliainces to their views on women, I agree though that people shouldn't be judged by their pastors views though, its nonsensical especially when the pastor ion question is not referencing morality but rather politics.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:50PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

You've got nuthin', huh?

To my ears there is a kernel of political and religious truth to what Rev. Wright has to say. Obama's experience as a black man in America does put him in a unique position to understand life for many Americans in a way Jesus would understand it. But then the reverend pivots into a hateful attack of the Clintons specifically and white people generally.

People who take their faith seriously, as Barack Obama does, chose their pastor carefully. I choose to attend one of the most liberal churches in my state because I take what my priest says seriously, I learn from him. I assume Barack does as well.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I think Michelle chose the church, she may have even grown up in it

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I do think Michele ascribes to some of that thinking. Pastor is a knowledge giver for people. And Obama mentioned that he is a devout Christian and he goes to church regularly. So I am sure he listens to his pastor regularly and learns from him.

by Sandeep 2008-03-12 11:51PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

One wrong doesnt make another wrong right!

by Sandeep 2008-03-12 11:49PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

You have got to be kidding me. Black theology does not involve talking about Bill Clinton 'riding Monica' and making hip gyrations from the pulpit. Nor does it involve talking about any politician by name, talking about his platform or saying the N word in regards to any experience Hillary Clinton may or may not have had.

That is not black theology...

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 09:50PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

There is no "riding Monica" point in the video...He is using Hillary as an analogy for existence...This is not a partisan post.  His sermon is not different than what Black Theologians have been saying about white politicians for at least 130 years.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:55PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

He actually says that Bill did to the community what he did to Monica. "He rode us like he rode her, dirty." And while he says it he is making gyrations from the pulpit. I won't link to it here and forgive me if I do not see the point in that.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Thanks for not linking it... My point is the video that Fox is cycling is fairly accurate of Black Theology.  Obviously saying anything about riding people is not good pulpit manners.  But, the broader point is in that we ought not be following what people's church leaders say.  I said the same thing about Romney, and have about Hillary - it is a dangerous road for anyone.

And, if this become common practice in campaigns just about the only Black Politicians elected will be ones that go to white churches...Because, preaching that would make a lot of white folks uncomfortable is in a lot of Black Churches.  And, it is vastly accepted the Pastor's words do not have to be your own in the Black Church.  White Pastors, on the contrary, are not really suppose to appear as if the are expressing opinions.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:04PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I only linked it because you called me a liar.

And yes, having grown up in the deep south and gone to black churches I can agree that a lot of what is preached could make some white people uncomfortable. But I have never seen this level of hatred preached in any of the black churches I have been to.

Also, if I was running for president on a post-racial platform, I would do my dead level best to distance myself as far as I could from this.

As far as it being a dangerous road, yes it is; especially since Obama will not tolerate any hint or twist of racism in others. He needs also to not tolerate it in his friends and advisors.

He is running to lead a nation not just a church or a city. And this nation is diverse.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:10PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Thats, fine i understand... Obama has in the past distanced himself.  But, this was initially Michelle's Church, it is where his children go...and where you go to church is a personal choice.  It has nothing to do with his wider platform.

And, studying this stuff for a living I can say a lot of Black Churches are this way, and a lot are not... And a lot of pastors won't be if they see a white person in the pews.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:17PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I understand and agree. However, this church is selling these sermons ONLINE, to anyone who wants them; that is how Fox got it. That means they want this out to a larger audience and don't care who sees it. it flies in the face of your very astute observation.

I appreciate the dialog from you on this and I really do understand and agree with your premise. But you have to see how this looks in light of the current state of affairs between these campaigns?

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

It is just the priorities are backward...and a lot of folks will be stigmatized if these kind of theological statements are called racists... not the ones about riding...but the ones about the plight of "niggers."  The State of being in a campaign should not trump religious expression.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:24PM | 0 recs
If your "religion" is racist,

then it needs to be called that. And this sermon, and probably this pastor, is racist. It makes it easier to understand why he thinks so highly of Louis Farakhan, and why Obama still uses his title of Minister as a sign of respect, even as he "rejects and denounces" him. Calling it "Black Theology" doesn't excuse it. "White theology" vehemently condemns homosexuality. Is that OK too?

by georgiapeach 2008-03-13 05:25AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

The Monica "riding dirty" hip gyration thing was seen on a different video. It was also shown on Fox tonight. Its perhaps even worse, if thats possible.

Anyone have a link?

by Scan 2008-03-12 10:01PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

My apologies, only saw the first one...

Do you see the broader danger in going down this track, though?

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I just want to point out that your comment has a flat lie in it

There is no "Monica" point or hip gyrations.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 09:56PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

It is not a lie and it is in the video.

"Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain't! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty." ... ..

http://tinyurl.com/23rqtw

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:00PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Look some of the Clinton stuff was over the line, but the "N word thing" that's crap you have all these people on here talking about how "Bitch is the new Black" and it inappropriate for an African-American pastor to use the "n word" in a speech.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 09:56PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

If a white person uses N word, is that ok? If not, then isnt is self-depracating for a black person to use N word?

by Sandeep 2008-03-12 11:56PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

This pastor really should lose his tax exempt status if he still has it.  I am sick of pastors preaching politics.

by shalca 2008-03-12 10:06PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

No he shouldn't, the Black notion of God is very active in history...and thus the "prophetic role" is to provide a running social commentary.  Wright crosses a lot of lines, in my view, but it is his right to do so.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:08PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

He's cutting it very close with support for one candidate over another.

by shalca 2008-03-12 10:09PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I'd actually argue that pastors in a "prophetic" role can be outspoken for a candidate.  But, I do not even think he crosses the current legal boundary.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:19PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

The IRS is investigating so I guess we will know soon.

I disagree with you here. I think the minute a pastor starts obviously advocating for one candidate over another they have crossed that line.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:22PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

But How far does that go?  Can a Black Pastor in La Speak out against David Duke?  Or how about all the Churches who supported Lincoln, Kennedy, and Johnson in the face of racism?  What about black and white pastors calling George Wallace a racists from the pulpit?  How about those who supported McGovern during Vietnam - that was appropriate?

It is an arbitrary line, written by white folks with no understanding of the prophetic nature of Black Churches.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Law is all about drawing arbitrary lines, the separation of Church and State is an arbitrary line.  Nonetheless there is a line, though I don't believe Rev. Wright has crossed it.

The interesting thing is that the legal line covering tax exempt status for churches was the genesis for the Republican's Southern strategy and the migration of  white evangelicals to the Republican party. You are mistaken to claim that it was written by white folks with no understanding of the prophetic nature of Black Churches, it was drawn by people all to familiar with the power of prophetic religions.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 10:51PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Where do you get that?  I think the first real case was Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York in 1970... where the law was upheld, but I think the lines were drawn prior to the conservative movement, and then by the courts.  The Southern Strategy, at least in by Wuthnow and Kevin Kruse understanding, was more about feeling threatened by the courts and government post-segregation the Church status.  I don't think a church lost status until after 2000, even then it has only been one or two.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:04PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Read Balmer's Thy Kingdom Come. The Southern Strategy was pushed by people like Kevin Phillips from the late '60s, but it didn't get real traction until the IRS tried to revoke Bob Jones University's tax exempt status in 1975 due to religiously justified segregated dating. That sparked the migration of white evangelicals into the Republican fold.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I actually have read Balmer but think he is wrong on Tax-exempt... I really think the segregation model is more correct, with Bob Jones being just a focal point... The initial purpose was Johnson's fight against wealthier main-line churches - the liberals.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:34PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Here is my take, in brief, in 54, Johnson moved for passage of  501 of the Internal Revenue Code.  Johnson, as a Sen. was fightint Churches who were  against his Great Society plans...So he wanted to give churches an incentive to withdrawal from the debate.  

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:16PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Yes, he should. if ha cannot stay out of politics.

And it is possible to preach on a social commentary and leave specific politians names out of it. there is no reason to inject the names of people who are currently running for president into the sermons.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

This is never appropriate...a religious life is a personal life...and only public to the extent you want to make it so.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:07PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Well since the Pastor has retired, I'm not sure I see your point. Additonally Cardboard has a very good point, and Fox is playing to rancid bigotry here, how come they aren't playing any videos of Haggee calling Catholics whores, or Parsely telling people that the United States was founded to destroy Islam? I mean they're McCain's two big spiritual guys.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Beautiful...you call for Ferraro's head on a platter but this kind of stuff said in reference to Obama's opponent in a presidential race is perfectly ok. Obama should not even try to distance himself from these views...right.

/snark

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:14PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

You don't see how the two are vastly different? Seriously, do you lack any understanding of religion whatsoever, or are you just playing dumb? And once again, Obama has addressed this issue months ago.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:22PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Religion should not be mising with politics from the pulpit. That's why there are laws against it.

by americanincanada 2008-03-12 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

"Senator Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Senator Obama deeply disagrees."

Really you should not make an issue of this.  It is wrong and ignorant to do so.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

The Clinton campaign will not make an issue, of this, it may be a general election issue (though that would open up the fundies and I'm not sure the GOP really wants to go there), but if the Clinton's attack on this, it will destroy any remaining trust they have in the Black community, as Cardboard said, this is not a minor church.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Oh Ok I get it , its okay to charge the Clinton's as racist  , then when the shoe is on the other foot you threaten them with political support.

That just rich and classy.

I am at my last straw with all of this , this video just makes me ill.

by lori 2008-03-12 10:48PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

No, what I meant was that this is common parlance in Black Spirituality, to denounce this as racist would in effect be calling the worshippers at nearly every major African American church racist, do you not see how that might hurt ability to garner black support?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

How about just standing up against what is wrong like all of you obama supporters have been doing with the Ferraro thing.

This guy is preaching hate and racial disunity .

Hypocrites come a dime a dozen.

Then to somehow say Ok if it is pointed out , you would lose support in the black community but it is okay to paint the clinton's as racist.

Wow....

If this gets out how about I say the white support Obama is getting would be flushed down the drain , did you ever think of it that way ?

What you just insinuated is disturbing.

by lori 2008-03-12 10:59PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

So far you are edging toward racist, I can't take you seriously as an observer of African American churches. "common parlance in Black Spirituality?"

In 1991 I spent some time following Jesse Jackson on the African American church circuit. The sermons I heard were often very strong stuff, and powerfully criticized the Bush administration. They could be mocking, and not particularly respectful of white people generally, but they were never hate-filled. Rev. Wright is not using common parlance.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 11:12PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Commentary like Wright's is not common - preaching like Wright's is not common.  That is why he is of the most respected Black Pastors in the Country.  But, here his words were unfortunate.  It is still, however, no our place to muddle.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:21PM | 0 recs
place? Actually it is an obligation.

Christians have a moral obligation to reject divisiveness. Americans have a positive duty to reject racism, we are all created equal.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 11:43PM | 0 recs
Re: place? Actually it is an obligation.

That Statement makes an ontological claim out of the  writings of the Founding Fathers...check out Cone

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:47PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

"what I meant was that this is common parlance in Black Spirituality, to denounce this as racist would in effect be calling the worshippers at nearly every major African American church racist, do you not see how that might hurt ability to garner black support?"

I put my life on the line to defy the KKK 35 years ago, and I have no problem doing exactly the same thing once again against this type of racism. The pandering you suggest to win an election is revolting to me.

by 07rescue 2008-03-12 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

So are you saying you should let go your convictions, your morals, your ideals for votes?

Such an ideal hypocrite you are! You do know that, dont you?

by Sandeep 2008-03-13 12:03AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Will this get major play on the level of Ferraro's comments? I'm starting to wonder. Perhaps if the Clinton campaign makes a statement on it. But after the shitstorm we've just been through, is Hillary really going to go there? I'm not so sure.

by animated 2008-03-12 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I hope not...It is not the same thing, and I wish we didn't just have 'hate' reporting where people shift from sexism to racism to whatever without thinking.  It ignores background and nuance.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 10:32PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I really don't think they will, Bill's been in enough Black churches to know what making an issue of this would do to the Democratic party.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:56PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I hope Hillary doesnt go there. But I do hope MSM goes there. What do you think?

by Sandeep 2008-03-13 12:08AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

If everyone watches this video, Obama is a goner!

It is outrageous.  It is not PC is an understatement.

by mcctx 2008-03-12 10:33PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

What part exactly is outrageous?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-12 10:55PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I don't care about this issue at all. I won't have any part in furthering this.

The less this campaign has to do with race the better. It's a little late for that, but oh well.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-12 11:04PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I would be waiting for a special comment from Keith Olbermann to call on Obama to denounce and repudiate the pastor.

by lori 2008-03-12 11:10PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

No one, whoever it may be, should be called upon to renounce their pastor - rather it is Obama, Hillary, Romney, or Ali

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:18PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Look I understand the point you are making but the way the Obama camp has tried to paint so many icons of the democratic party who have been in the front lines of fighting for civil rights is despicable.

To watch this video his ironic.

I hope those at MSNBC , that took up Obama's cause even going to such lengths as making a special comment , would now take this up , the guy is preaching hate and racial disharmony.

Hillary has never been called a N''.

These same hypocritical Obama supporters who were outraged about Ferraro are now the ones saying that it should be kept quite or else Blacks won't support you.

And they say it is the clinton camp that is using race to divide the party.

It is very shameful , Obama has to be held to the same standard.

The video is out there and keith Olbermann should make a special comment and ask Obama to denounce the man.

It is not right to be preaching hate whether you are in the pulpit or not.

by lori 2008-03-12 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

But there is still a huge gap between Sam Power, Ferraro (members of the campaigns) and Obama's retired Pastor...and it is really low and wrong from a moral standpoint for anybody to use this.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

To use race at all the way the Obama's campaign has done is despicable.

Imagine pressuring John Lewis and all other AA's supporting Clinton as superdelegates and calling on them to switch or have others run against them , calling them Uncle Tom's.

Obama has run a despicable campaign , I used to have fond feelings for him and credit him as a great campaigner for being able to run a campaign based on premises he is not living up to but being able to convince voters otherwise but I have had enough of it.

Obama has run one of the most despicable campaign I have seen in a long time, destroy people's lives by charging them as a racist without thinking of the repurcussion.

I have had enough , and I don't want him to be the nominee .

If he is the nominee , against John Mccain i would have to really reevaluate the situation.

I think we are going to be stuck with a loser in the general election if Obama is the nominee.

This guy has so many skeletons , it is unbelieveable.

Imagine if the media was fully vetting him.

What if it was Clinton that was going to a church and her pastor of 20 years was saying all of this .

by lori 2008-03-12 11:44PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

That is fine if you want to debate that...but the statements of a Pastor should not be the grounds for that debate.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:47PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

You still fail to convince me that Obama's campaign is in any way using race. And it doesn't even make sense, as it is a losing strategy for sure and everybody knows this. Ask Pres. Jackson and Pres. Al Sharpton. Or all the Black Senators that have made it only because they are lucky to be Black. Oh wait, there are none other than Obama.

We should not use race, gender nor religion as a wedge to divide us - Sen. Obama

by marcotom 2008-03-13 01:38AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

People are called on all the time to renounce bigoted pastors. And rightly so. There is nothing inappropriate about condemning any modern Father Coughlins.

What we may not do, in America, is call on people to renounce their faith.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 11:37PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Well that was a good reference... Obama has said he doesn't agree with everything Wright says, but a renouncement is something different.  Especially if he is asked to renounce the "Nigger Christ" that boarders on faith - it is a conversation better left in private.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:41PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I should clarify, I don't think Rev. Wright is a Father Coughlin. I think he has some problematic views of race in America and he let himself get carried away in the heat of a political campaign.

But a candidate's religious views are a public matter to the degree that the candidate uses those views to explain his candidacy. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have made their faith a key element of their argument for their candidacies, so the genesis of that faith is an appropriate topic for discussion.

by souvarine 2008-03-12 11:58PM | 0 recs
By the way

CardBoard, while you and I disagree on our chosen candidates, I respect your viewpoints and your attempts to get out in front of this in a thoughtful way.

I really don't expect the media to be very restrained in their handling of this, however.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-12 11:10PM | 0 recs
Re: By the way

Thanks, hopefully I can pull on a couple of people's religious heart strings - but I fear you are right.

by CardBoard 2008-03-12 11:17PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

It is all due to Hillary's kitchen sink policies. If she hadn't stood between Messiah and his chances of being POTUS, then the pastor of the our saviour wouldn't have to jump into this and show us the divine light (which comes from behind our saviour, our Messiah).

by Sandeep 2008-03-12 11:59PM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

I've thought a little more about this.

I support Hillary Clinton, but I don't want her to win the nomination because of some sort of scandal around Barack Obama. We need the Democratic Party to be as intact as possible after this is over. Despite a lot of nastiness of late, both candidates have been somewhat restrained--so far, no commercials featuring grainy black and white footage of the opponent.

So I guess I'm hoping that this issue disappears without having too much effect, and that the next time a Clinton supporter says something controversial, the Obama campaign lets it go. Hopefully the nomination will go on to its natural place.

Unfortunately, after that, all bets are off. The Republicans are not going to be restrained about this, so I'm not sure it'll stay out of the spotlight.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-13 12:27AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Sad

Always good to see sensible posts from supporters of the other candidate.

I will give Sen. Clinton some credit if she refuses to make this story any bigger than it will be anyways. If she piles on, all bets are off.

by marcotom 2008-03-13 01:41AM | 0 recs
It's hard to denounce and reject

a church and/or a pastor that you've been faithful to for 20 years. Obama had better hope that the media will be so fascinated with the Spitzer story that this is overshadowed. If it gets very much airtime, his campaign might want to start circulating the Muslim e-mail again. That would probably go over better than his association with his pastor, in light of this sermon.

by georgiapeach 2008-03-13 05:38AM | 0 recs

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