The Ultimate Meta Diary.

(cross posted at Kickin it with CG and Clintonistas for Obama)

Okay - you know things are bad when you stop yourself in the midst of writing 2 diaries, one on Darfur and Electric Cars to write about trolls, MyDD and the latest round of GBCW diaries.

Seriously guys the only reason trolling and flaming is happening is because - you are participating!  Many incredible diaries go unnoticed because they - shall we say - have no flavour....

Not only are there McBloggers taking over, but also the Purity Trolls are out in full force - policing everyone's motives.  Stop the insanity!

The site owners and administrators have promised site updates and clearly this is an acknowledgment that there is some work necessary here.  That said - I want to nip this in the bud by proposing a few things...

1.  No more flame wars.
If a diary is particularly enticing make a personal commitment to only respond to another user who commented to whom's opinion your respect.  That way - even though the diary may be a 'turd sandwich' (thanks thepurplestuff) you may participate in elevating the discussion.

2.  Stop complaining about MyDD in your comments.  
If you are aggravated with the situation - email the admins.  And I mean - every time you see something 'trollish'

3.  Be intellectually honest.
There tends to be a double-standard applied here by many whereby opinions they share deserve respect and general politeness - whereas opinion's they don't share - deserve snarky and rude receptions.

4. Kindness is a very underrated value in the Blogosphere.
Some people's hate-spewed speech is shocking.  I cannot imagine many speaking to others this way in real life.  But guess what folks - this is real life.  A good general rule of thumb is speak as you would hope to be spoken to.

5. Contribute.
Hunting trolls or adding smart-ass commentary is not contributing - sorry.  Write diaries, think about your 'progressive' ideals - and suggest ways to applying it to better the world.

I think that's a good starting off point for ways in which to make our little community better and hope that you guys can share with me your suggestions and enthusiasm for making MyDD a better place.

Please excuse any grammar and typos - this one was done on the fly!

Tags: C4O, exodus, MyDD (all tags)



i love you guys.

even you engels!

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 11:49AM | 0 recs

I'm sick of the flame wars. I just want to get back to helping Democrats win! :-)

by atdleft 2008-08-05 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Agreed...

Then you should help rein in sricki's sockpuppets who go around telling people to go fuck themselves and insinuating that if you don't vote for Obama you have incestual sex with your mother.

by William Cooper 2008-08-06 12:33AM | 0 recs
Re: i love you guys.

Looking fotward to the Darfur diary. Cheers

by Politicalslave 2008-08-05 02:34PM | 0 recs
Let's all drop the flames...

CG is right. We have better things to do. :-)

by atdleft 2008-08-05 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Problem is

1. Who defines a purity troll

2. The admins never listen to any complaints

We've been waiting for some basic moderation here for many months. I just think people are at the end of their tether, and leaving in even greater numbers.

It's up to the administration of this site to create a system of known enforceable moderation of flames, and consistent application of the rules.

Too many good dems have been banned from this site. Too many non dems remain. And I'm not talking about Obama sceptics. I'm talking about out and out troublemakers, a majority sent over - as they told me four months they would be - by republicans.  

by duende 2008-08-05 12:07PM | 0 recs
we don't need to define them.

for example - i know brit - i don't always agree with him, he may infuriate me, but i know that he is a true progressive and an intellectually honest individual.

now how do i know this - from engaging in a real way over time.  yes we had heated exchanges during the primary and im sure we will in the future - but this flame baiting thing does nothing but create a vicious cycle of crap.  new people get judged on their merit of posts - period.

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: we don't need to define them.

He is vile.  Your and sricki's support of him means that his vileness rubs off on you.

Do you also like incest and child molestation humor, CG?

If not, you should distance yourself from him/her.

by William Cooper 2008-08-06 12:35AM | 0 recs
Re: we don't need to define them.

Trolled for false accusations. Never said you wanted to have sex with your mother.

by duende 2008-08-06 04:32AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

"The admins never listen to any complaints" and "Too many good dems have been banned from this site" are somewhat contradictory. I've found the admins very responsive to complaints about people who violate the guidelines, those people are generally warned and sometimes banned.

Jerome made an early decision to preserve this blog as a place where supporters from each Democratic campaign would have a reasonable chance of being heard. He has kept that pledge and prevented this blog from becoming merely an echo chamber for any one portion of the Democratic party. In the last year this site has gone through a handful of waves of supporters from a handful of the major Democratic campaigns who were more interested in attacking and disrupting than in having discussions. Once each wave has established a clear pattern the admins ban the worst offenders. Then a bunch of people post GBCW diaries and complain about the moderation here.

Canadian gal's advice is pretty good. Follow the guidlines, stick to discussing and advocating for your opinion. There is nothing wrong with being confrontational or controversial, just don't attack other users personally. Candidates and politicians are fair game.

by souvarine 2008-08-05 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

There's NO contradiction. People complain about ratings abuse and trolling. Never acted upon. People are banned - Hillary supporters recently - merely for complaining about this.

Self moderation hasn't worked. Partly it's the legacy of the primary wars - but its mainly stoked up by people who want McCain elected.

If you can't see that, then you haven't been paying attention

by duende 2008-08-05 05:25PM | 0 recs
I was no hillary supporter

though she's a nice lady and all that.

and I got banned. wtf? admins??

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-06 05:45AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Nobody needs to define anything. Things are sometimes beyond who is right or wrong. Right here, right now, on this site, we are at this point. All of us to start fracking acting better. Don't call people names. Ever. If you are starting to crawl off the page, you have written too much. I could go on.

I should write a diary about how to identify your own foolish, trollish behavior. You know, ask yourselves ten simple questions, am I a troll? If anyone wants to write this be my guest, I just gave you two really good questions.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Sometimes I feel like a kindergarten teacher or crazy aunt off in the corner of a truly disfunctional family.

<We've been waiting for some basic moderation here for many months. I just think people are at the end of their tether, and leaving in even greater numbers.>

For crying out soft people, moderate yourselves. Grow the frack up.

I am crabby, sorry.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 03:38PM | 0 recs
a purity troll....

is someone who promotes the Democratic nominee and refutes GOP lies, smears, and talking points, while calling out those who regurgitate them.

by Glaurung 2008-08-05 04:54PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Hmmm, give me a minute to think about this?

Are we allowed to still be a bit snarky?

Seriously I'm as tired as the next person of posters dropping in, sensing a wound is about to heal and deciding to scratch it hard again. However, I have  always felt the best way to deal with them, mctrolls and "those that shall not be named" was to sit on your hands and stay away from the keyboard. I will be the first admit I fail sometime at my own advice, but I'll make an effort.

by jsfox 2008-08-05 12:07PM | 0 recs
a little bit of snark...

is fun at times i agree.  but when its becomes the de facto way of communicating - that's the problem.

and i appreciate the effort - if we all follow your lead - WE WIN!

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:27PM | 0 recs
I know.

I need to get a diary up. I will soon, but I've been feeling very uninspired lately. I'll try to have one out by the weekend.

by sricki 2008-08-05 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: I know.

Any chance you can write about Ron Suskind's new book?  I really need someone smart to fill me in on all the details and whatever options are open, if any.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-08-05 12:21PM | 0 recs
Ron Suskind was on Keith Olbermann's show

tonight.  I thought about how somebody needs to write a diary about that... But it might be too divisive, I guess, because some people here still hate Keith Olbermann because they think he was unfair to Hillary.  Really.  They even wrote a four part series on here and got their friends to recommend it.  One even wrote a diary that coined the schoolyard-taunt phrase "Keithing it."  Maybe Suskind will talk about it in a more acceptable venue sometime soon.

by Dumbo 2008-08-05 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I know.

I have missed seeing your writing here lately. Was thinking about writing a diary, where have all the cool people gone? You, and mady, and
Steve M
X Stryker
Tenafly Viper
Sumo Vita
Liberal Monk
Bob Sackamento
Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka
William Cooper

Just to name a few.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I agree with both positions.

I agree with you, and therefore have no intentions of dipping out anytime soon....but, I also agree with those who are leaving, and their reasons for doing so.

One's sleeves can only be rolled up but so far.
If the promised 'upgrades' (promised months ago) do not come about....I don't know how much longer I will find myself agreeing with both positions.

While I don't want MYDD to become an echo chamber...I also don't want to linger too long in a gas chamber. And, quite frankly, that is what it feels like of late.

by Kysen 2008-08-05 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

wow, cg . . . great food for thought . . . in short, I see the wisdom that makes atdleft agree with you all the time!!  Excellent post!


by DizzyQueen 2008-08-05 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

PURITY!  Or I'm leaving MyDD!  Puhleeze.  OK.  I've hit the scotch a little early.

by ChitownDenny 2008-08-05 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

And, apparently, often.

by Kysen 2008-08-05 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Can you otherwise explain the fixation with the blogs, Brute?

by ChitownDenny 2008-08-05 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Canadian Gal--you should be a moderator here! Thanks for your always level-headed approach to blogging!

I agree with what you are saying here but also acknowledge what Kysen is saying. Somebody in site admin has to take a little responsibility for what has happened here, and we need to take a lot of responsibility for what we write. I agree kindness and thoughtfulness are in short supply around here and on the internet in general and I also urge everybody to saddle up and write stuff that gets real conversations started. I don't think anybody means to stifle real arguments--just arguments about arguments about old wounds. The primary is over, the GE beckons, the McCain camp is coming at us fast and furious with Roves drawn. Lets step it up!

by wasder 2008-08-05 12:19PM | 0 recs
can everyone give wasder...

a hell YEAH???!!!???

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: can everyone give wasder...

Now I have to put my money where my mouth is and write a killer diary. Will do my best over the next day or two.

by wasder 2008-08-05 03:53PM | 0 recs
The problem is, there is a new split in the party

Before, we were united in a common enemy - George Bush. Subscriptions to The Nation skyrocketed. Places like this and the dailykos were very popular.

The elephant in the room is that this place should exist for electing Democrats. But this primary has sewn a giant rift in the party. Many feel like it's not their party any mroe (AND THIS HAS NOTHING, NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.) It's the dismissal of older voters, of working class voters, of women, of uneducated voters. Those voters made up our base!

This is the most mean-spirited our party has been, probably ever.

This party is in the midst of a realignment that will be made permanent by Obama's election to POTUS. If that happens, the great diaspora of all the groups cited above will begin. Only a few people call themselves official PUMAs.

But more than you know feel the way the PUMAs do. The great silent masses are there. And their numbers are not shrinking.

by catfish2 2008-08-05 12:46PM | 0 recs
didnt you get the memo?

this is a met-a diary.  kidding.

that said - i am not going to argue your point because i dont necessarily agree or disagree - but what can you - catfish - do to make things better on this issue?

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Why even bother responding to the codfish upthread?

All this person does is jack perfectly progressive diaries and turns them into flame wars. How about blackened catfish take his "Obama is going to orgasm" type of discourse to a more appropriate setting? Very few trolls cause as much trouble as catfish does for the simple reason that he jacks diaries left and right.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

trying to change minds...  and maybe see if she has some good suggestions how to make it better here.  im not going to be holding my breath but im hopeful.  LOL

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

CG, catfish is hopeless.  Spiff is right, all he does is jack diaries and spread falsehoods like the one above.  Obama's doing just fine with white, working class voters.  He's doing great with Latinos.  Maybe he has some troble with older voters, but that's it.  For someone of your stature to engadge him is to give him credibility, and we don't need anymore of his crap here.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-08-05 01:07PM | 0 recs
i dont necessarily disagree...

with your assessment - but after all if i am following my own advice that is to say that i am attempting to elevate the discussion.  probably wont happen - but worth a try ;)

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 01:12PM | 0 recs
Re: i dont necessarily disagree...

I'll mojo to that!

by NewOaklandDem 2008-08-05 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Catfish is the biggest troll on this site. Period. I can laugh off the smears and ignore drive by posters. But having a person jack diary after diary after diary is an insult to the diarist and the rest of the commenters. When codfish is really on his game you can't venture into a diary without seeing his busted talking points and malicious lies. Sometimes you've got half the diaries jacked and ruined by our current troll. I'm sick of the bulls#@! already.

Catfish is the definition of a troll but hey, it's perfectly fine for him to stick around. Let's ban grassrootsorganizer instead. What a load of crap.

Yeah, I'll probably get my third warning (which means I'll get banned) for saying crap and bullshit. I need to grow up is what I was told because I responded in a nasty manner (I said shit!) to a person who called canadian gal a bitch.

That's right. I got a warning for calling out a person who attacked another user. LAME.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Catfish is still particiating on this site.  I'd rather have more participation on this site, with the opportunity to share ideas and perhaps persuade thought, than on other sites, such as Confluence.  Thank you, Catfish, for the opportunity.

by ChitownDenny 2008-08-05 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Naw, I think catfish can go copulate with himself.  Really.  He adds nothing to this site.  

by NewOaklandDem 2008-08-05 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?
I understand where you're coming from.  I haven't commented on the context of this commenter's participation.  
I think, in the big picture, that this is a Dem year.  As such, we need Dems to participate.  Lets put away the 'bot argue points (Hillbot and Obamabot).  That's what this blog is all about, I thought.
by ChitownDenny 2008-08-05 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Except that catfish ain't no Dem.  Maybe at one point, but not now.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-08-05 01:46PM | 0 recs
That's the point.

For someone of your stature to engadge him is to give him credibility, and we don't need anymore of his crap here.

Not just that.  It encourages him to seek more attention and it also derails all the real discussions that could be taking place.

by Dumbo 2008-08-05 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: didnt you get the memo?

Tch, Tch. Don't play. ;~[

by Hollede 2008-08-05 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: The problem is, there is a new split in the pa

Don't forget the dismissal of young people and the college-educated.  Oh wait...I guess we just named everyone.  

by ProgressiveDL 2008-08-06 06:03AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

5. Contribute.
Hunting trolls or adding smart-ass commentary is not contributing - sorry.

Oh, just eliminated my raison d'etre.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-08-05 12:53PM | 0 recs
aw shucks...

now what are we going to do? ;)

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: aw shucks...

Heh, heh. We all have a dark side.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 04:57PM | 0 recs
The problem is

unmoderated sites full of Operation Chaos bozos make bridging the divide impossible.

Who here hasn't read the thread where a supporter from one side or the other sticks out there hand to the other only to have some troll asshole jump in to bite it and set off a flame war.  

Point of fact -- this stupid divide shit isn't going on in real life.  Yeah, sure, there are Clinton people home still licking their paws and obnoxious Obama supporters who can't shut the fuck up about her, but for the most part, when standing face to face and no longer anonymous, people manage to get along.

Reason?  because if any one of the fuck faced shit flinging professional disruptors who troll this forum were to show up at a real life meeting of real life Democrats, they wouldn't have the courage to open their filthy mouths and if they did?  They'd get shown the door.

The "divide" is growing on-line because asshats like Larry Johnson are promoting and profitting off of it, desperate Republicans are trolling progressive sites and moderators are too busy managing their bank accounts to give a good god damn.


by GRO 2008-08-05 12:57PM | 0 recs

that was a rant - send it to the admins!  and i agree asshats are the perfect way to put some of the people that come here.  lets make it better instead of complaining about it - you with me?

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: whoo!

I would sign a petition that discussed the more reprehensible behavior. Discussed it honestly and constructively.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

CG speaks for me.

There are a handful of users here who strike you as the sort of folks that were considered too stupid to comment at NoQuarter.

While it's fun to shoot fish in a barrel sometimes, there's really no point!  Just ignore these people.  Your putdowns are not that witty, I assure you, and you do not need to turn every one of their diaries into a 100-comment flamefest.

And please, please, resist the temptation at all costs to write an entire response diary about how worthless their diary was!

You all have been on the Internet long enough to know that there are not enough hours in the day to tell every idiot how idiotic they are.  So why even start?  Just tune your mental filter to ignore these clowns, and breathe easier.

by Steve M 2008-08-05 01:00PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I've been called the biggest troll by most of the PUMA's and deadenders. I've been warned more than once that I should take my act elsewhere. Grassroots was banned! I mean..WTF!?!?

Really? After a whole month of aliveandkickin. After months of that asshat rankles, a GREAT contributor to this site gets banned for a perfectly reasonable request?

Nah. Maybe former Clinton supporters don't feel the same heat most of us Obama supporters felt and continue to feel on MyDD. Their is a double standard and its pretty clear who is behind it. I don't do flame wars anymore and I barely participate. Judging the mods by the past warnings I have gotten I know my time on MyDD can come to an end any moment. Very, very lame.

I read once that you know a blog is on life support when people start writing up diaries....about the blog.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 01:09PM | 0 recs

you know you are one of my favourite people here - and i am not advocating that there are no problems here.  that said - we need to  set the example here and stop getting baited in the crap!

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

I agree. I haven't ventured into any of the latest flamewars and GBCW diaries. I'm not taking the bait anymore and the proof lies in my comment history. The desicion to express myself was made only because it's your diary and I really care what you think.

I'm tired of the BS canada. It's counterproductive and this "war" the PUMA's and the deadenders have going on for control of this blog is ridiculous! Who the f cares who "rules" on MyDD? Jerome obviously takes most of us for granted. Hey, if he wants this blog to go the way of NoQuarter he can do that. It's his blog! All I want to know is what the site guidelines and rules are around here. He should make clear what the point of this blog is so we can know if it's worth out time.

Very frustrated with what is going on here and I don't come on the internets to feel frustrated. I come to laugh, learn and have fun with my friends. This place is very depressing right now.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

I miss the "learning" most especially.  Hasn't been much opportunity for that lately.  Used to be I could read through a nice issue diary and the associated comment thread and see new facets, broaden my perspective, even learn more in the way of "wonk".

Back in the Primary days, I wanted to hear what Clinton suppoters had to say, even if I disagreed with it vehemently.  In fact, a handful of users here (sricki, canadian gal, etc.) really helped me see HRC in a new light, and my respect for her as a civil servant grew as a consequence.  I was never a Hillary hater to begin with, but more lukewarm indifferent.

That said, I also wanted to defend Obama.  I came here initially to push back against the smears.  Later, I'd hoped that some of the more wary Clinton folks would come to see Obama in a new light.  Some of us Obama supporters have had some success in this arena.  We were engaged, we were interacting, we were unifying.

Finally, I wanted to be somewhere where I felt some kinship in my disagreement with Bush, McCain, and most other republicans and their various and sundry policy positions.  

Lately though, things have regressed drastically, and frankly, it's become exhausting.  I've all but given up posting diaries, beacuse if they're not an all-out flame-fest, they're barely read.  I've dialed back my commenting to some degree too, though my frustration with trolls and their hijacking ought be apparant in my recent comment history.  While it's fun to snipe at them, it grows tiresome when that's ALL there is to do here.

Eh, I'm rambling, but you get the gist.  I REALLY miss the interactive learning.

by fogiv 2008-08-05 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

I have missed you lately

by Hollede 2008-08-05 05:05PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

Awww, thanks.  What a nice thing to say.

by fogiv 2008-08-06 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

Me too fogiv. You were always a great commentator. Why let the asshats win? If in doubt, organise!

by duende 2008-08-05 05:23PM | 0 recs
And no, um, English English, either!

or we'll slash your tyres and pour petrol down your loo!



PS, I can't resist sharing this while I'm here, since my diary has aged...

s'OK I think it is a consequence of the modification of the Planck length here in the new non-Engle's space-time continuum. so expect a bumpy ride ;p

by zerosumgame on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:55:36 PM EST

Re: "falling off to the right..." (none / 0)

I gotta find a way to use that in a sig or something...

That's some thing like this, then:


I dunnoe if anyone else is tickled by Planck Length humor, maybe I'm just that much of a geek :~D

by chrisblask 2008-08-05 05:46PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

I hear you.  I feel a second wind coming.  :)

by fogiv 2008-08-06 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

Why paint it as a "war" for "control" of this blog?  It's a place to express reasonable, rational lines of thought and disagreement with one another.  You say "who the f cares who rules on my DD", but your preceding sentence does reflect an obsession about those supposedly "going on for control of this blog"!

by MMR2 2008-08-05 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

Why do you always stalk me?


You always do the same thing.

I don't know you nor do I care who you are.

Could you leave me the fuck alone please? Thanks!

I'm not painting it as a "war". I'm saying that's the attitude of most of the PUMA's and deandenders and it's downright pathetic. That was the point of my post. You would have gotten it if you weren't so intent on finding anything to nitpick at my comments.

First and last response to you.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

by William Cooper 2008-08-05 03:17PM | 0 recs

by chrisblask 2008-08-05 03:38PM | 0 recs
Re: (d)

I have missed you lately dude

by Hollede 2008-08-05 05:06PM | 0 recs

by chrisblask 2008-08-05 05:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks

missing a lot of people and their diaries. Makes me sad.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

Dudes! Step away from each other. Back into your corners and then please step down and talk to someone else.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:45PM | 0 recs
Re: spacey.

I totally agree. And I do not think we are the only ones who are worn out. Can some of us get together and have some sort of convention on blog behavior and freedom of speech? I think we are trying to bring civil discourse into a place that is not very civil. How can we fight this without ruling things up. I have missed you as well dude.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

You WISH you were the biggest troll.

by Steve M 2008-08-05 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Yeah... (kicks the ground sheepishly)

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-05 02:49PM | 0 recs
Can we excuse the Canadian English?

by activatedbybush 2008-08-05 01:20PM | 0 recs

Well, OK, only if you'll do me this one favour:

I left some serviettes on the chesterfield on my way to hospital, they're the coloured ones with the Timmie's logo on them.  If you could put them with the one litre bottles of pop (or is that soda, I always confuse those two) and don't let that goof Gonzo steal them.  And grab me a two-four of Blue and just leave it in your car (you are driving Up North this weekend, eh?) and a can of gas for my sled.



by chrisblask 2008-08-05 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Never!

I feel at home ;~)

by Hollede 2008-08-05 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Never!

I am soooo glad I just went to Vietnam instead.


by RickWn 2008-08-05 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Never!

I have lived on the border of Canada for most of my life, if only in the summer for my entire childhood. I love Canada. I would actually sometimes rather live in Canada.

Well maybe we can start catching up to the Canadians and the Europeans and the Japanese under an Obama Presidency.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Never!

in fact, in the late 1970's, I discovered that in many parts of the world, it was better to pretend I was a Canadian. Will someone adopt me, please?

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:24PM | 0 recs
I've done both, about equally in my life

and they're both great countries that can be praised and ridiculed in equal measure.

I think that has been the greatest lesson for me.  It is easy to love Canada - and well deserved - but the perspective from there has also, for me, made it easier to love the States as well.

It's a Grass is Greener thing.  Both have Very Nice Yards, in different ways.  Sometimes it is simpler to see the things that make your own yard nice when you cross the fence and see it from the other side for a long enough time.


by chrisblask 2008-08-05 07:12PM | 0 recs
Ah and who says libs don't have a sense of


by activatedbybush 2008-08-06 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Haha I appreciate the shoutout.  This diary definitely isn't a turd sandwich, although I think MyDD has problems that no amount of user action or inaction can fix.  Moderators need to moderate, and it's clear that they don't plan on it.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-08-05 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Hey tps, do me a favor and shoot me an email....I have a question for ya.

My email addy is in my Profile.


by Kysen 2008-08-06 10:28PM | 0 recs
When are you leaving, CG =)

just kidding... seems like everyone else is!

by SevenStrings 2008-08-05 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: When are you leaving, CG =)

Don't even joke. I am missing so many sensible people around here. Soon I will be asking where they are going and see if they will let me come along.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Wow. This is one of the best diaries I have seen on this issue. I think that if people followed your simple guidelines, troll activity would diminish quickly. The people who participate, on either side, have managed to turn the silliest diaries into rec diaries, that garner most of the attention around here. I would venture to say that all of us, me included, who have participated with trollish figures, are complicit in the ongoing and current demise of this very fine blog.

Kudos to you canadian gal for another awesome diary. Oh and I have missed your writings lately. That makes me very sad :~(

by Hollede 2008-08-05 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Now I am going to read the comments. Sigh.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

#5 is the ultimate. we need to elevate the discourse. everyone is partly to blame.

by alyssa chaos 2008-08-05 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I wish I would see more from you as well. I guess I am not very enthused when things are so nasty. it's tough to be around here when you have to wade through flame wars on most posts.

You seem like a very sensible person to me for what it's worth. I think I might just meander over to your site. i signed up a few weeks ago but am sort of a creature of habit. I started out at dailykos and ended up here. It's kind of a shame because this place rocked not long ago.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

im putting out a non flame war diary tomorrow, possibly tonight, so stick around; im sure things will get better around here eventually in the coming weeks after the convention. you're right that this place used to rock. it was super cool and now its kinda lost its shine, but i think i would hate to see the trolls win and takeover this place.

mydd is a hard habit to break.

by alyssa chaos 2008-08-05 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I look foward to your diary! And they don't have to win. Getting rid of trolls should be easy if we all work together on this.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:52PM | 0 recs
I Hearby Swear:

That I will use utmost restraint to follow the soul and purpose of this thread until August 30.

I will - at the most - use my new a-d commenting shorthand (feel free to use it) when I just can't help myself, and at the very worst expand on (c) when I really feel there is a real person there.

In the past month I have spent a good deal of time with the C4O folks, in the past week I have recced and Mojoed several folks that surprise me, I have even exchanged recs and mojo with catfish and know that s/he is at least a real person, and likely sincere.

After the Democratic Convention, however, I don't believe I can or should stick to that.  After that we have ten weeks to the General Election and we decide whether my children finish their childhoods under BushIII or Obama.  After that there is no PUMA argument - and no "I'll vote for him, but he's still scum" argument - that is not a GOP argument.

I love the vast majority of you, and for all I know I'd love the few others under different circumstances.  But anyone who tries to take down Official Nominee Obama on the march to the White House will likely get both barrels of whichever weapon I deem best suited for the purpose.

-best, CG, and all of ya'


by chrisblask 2008-08-05 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: I Hearby Swear:

my new a-d commenting shorthand

Howah! Awesome comment. And you make me squirt pop out of my nose. Damn I need to switch to water.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Thanks, CG, for this much needed diary.
I think you're on the right track here.
We need to ignore and hide rate the trolls, and when they stop getting attention, they'll go to find greener pastures.
I can personally attest to many worthless minutes spent trying to reason with said trolls (as you do above with catfish), but there is simply no point in trying to engage them, because they aren't here to engage in discussion, they are here only to disrupt and misdirect threads.
Look at how many good diaries turn into flame fests because of one or two comments from catfish or rankles?
I've been posting on the internet on newsgroups, message boards, blogs and what have you for years.
There always have been trolls, there always will be trolls.
Do not "engage" them.
Do not respond to them.
Do not troll rate them- hide rate them.

Hide rating is the tool we are given to moderate this site.
Use it.

by skohayes 2008-08-05 04:12PM | 0 recs
Thank you.

The site has a problem, but I don't really understand why so many complaints are directed towards the "moderators," apparently in reference to the admins.  WE are the moderators.

by semiquaver 2008-08-05 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you.

Exactly. thank you for still hanging in there.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

what's a meta diary?

by bigdaddy 2008-08-05 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

It's a diary about this site, rather than one about what this site is supposed to be about -- politics.

by politicsmatters 2008-08-05 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

You're one of my favourite posters on this site.

Haven't you noticed how we can't talk about politics anymore, mainly due to the 'noise' emanating from unmoderated trolls.

Genuine diarists who complain about this are peremptorily banned - for writing Meta diaries.

It's circular, and the decline of this site won't be fixed by more and more calls to action on US, but only by the admins

by duende 2008-08-05 05:31PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

The admins aren't our only saviors.  They can decrease the noise, but we can increase the signal.

by semiquaver 2008-08-05 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Yes but it requires organisation - they're organised so we have to be.

by duende 2008-08-05 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I have missed you as well politicsmatters. it makes me very sad.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

And here I thought people were saying they missed bigdaddy!

by bigdaddy 2008-08-06 01:11AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I thought it was about transformation. Transforming this site into a better place.

by Hollede 2008-08-05 06:54PM | 0 recs
Ohhh!! So it's OUR fault!

Right.  Got it.  


Sockpuppets rule this place.  Anyone that makes 3 or more accounts can put his or her diary on the rec list.  That's not out fault.

Anyone with a ton of sockpuppets can hide legit comments, and TR others into oblivion.  That's also not our fault.

The same trolls/sockpuppets have never been touched by the admin because the admin feels they help increase ad revenue.  That's not our fault either.  In fact, that makes this "political blog" as good as some cheap spam site selling fake viagra.

By the way, is Jerome a PUMA?  Serious question.  Here's why I wonder.  He has written nothing positive about Obama on his own blog, and has done nothing to further the Presidential election beyond the primaries.  Thirdly, he has done nothing to clean up the PUMA, NoQuarter, and McCain trolls, but has done a hell of a lot in the past to silence Obama supporters.

This post isn't a GBCW, but it may just get me banned.  If you guys don't see me after this, sayonara.  One more person that cares about MyDD either banned or that finally leaves in disgust.

by Hill4Life 2008-08-05 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Ohhh!! So it's OUR fault!


(can't say i am disappointed in seeing you mocking HRC any more)

by canadian gal 2008-08-05 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

Here's what I try to do:

1) Ignore the trolls, metatrolls, purity trolls, puma trolls, mcain trolls.

2) If I feel I must reply, I try to do it in a gentle, patient tone, as if explaining something to a very confused person. As I see it there are two possibilities: (a) the person really is confused, and could benefit from having things explained (b) the person is trying to piss people off, in which case a gentle patient tone informs them that it is not going to work.

3) Use humor, but not mean mocking humor. OK maybe gently mocking sometimes. Making fun of somebody's point of view might make people who already agree with you laugh at your cleverness, but it is very unlikely to change any minds.

4) NEW! I have lately tried to get in the habit of giving mojo to anybody who disagrees with me using logic and facts. Troll rating has never appealed to me and I have only done it a handful of times in my several months posting here. It only begets more troll rating. So I was thinking that perhaps mojo may beget more mojo, and encourage substantive debate.

by itsthemedia 2008-08-05 11:38PM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I couldn't care less about troll rating or ratings abuse, rec'd abuse, meta threads, puma threads, anti puma threads, sockpuppets, sweaterpuppets or anything else not related to politics. Its the internet. This whole thing strikes me as similar to people that complain there's nothing on TV but trash, while watching Springer and Maury, yelling at the TV how much they hate it and how Sondra is a slut for sleeping with her pregnant sister's fiance.

This site is self moderating. Interesting topics generate lots of posts/replies and over time potentially wind up on the rec list. Diaries that suck aren't replied to and if they are rec'd, tend to die out quickly. Just like TV--shows that get the ratings stay on, those that don't get canceled. The topics on MyDD that the MyDD users find most interesting are evident. Look at the number of comments, look how long its been on the rec list and how many people have rec'd it.

Fact is people like drama. They especially like it on the internet. They like it even more when they are somehow involved, or minimally get to add their two cents (see this post for mine). But MyDD like many other blogs and political forums is EXACTLY what the majority of users want it to be. Its a user driven site that reflects the interests of its members. You want to talk about other topics, start a diary about that topic, post comments to diaries from others about that topic, rec those diaries. If people really wanted to talk politics and nothing else then ultimate meta diaries like this would have zero comments to it. In fact it has lots. You get what you put in.

by bigdaddy 2008-08-06 01:27AM | 0 recs
Re: The Ultimate Meta Diary.

I think it says something about this site that 4 of the 5 rec list diaries are meta.  I know it cheeses the admins off having commentary on mydd dominate the rec list, but consider it a sign of how bad things are here.

by Skaje 2008-08-06 02:47AM | 0 recs


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